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Clarification on the "Tax Tip" that I first posted here.  

 

Yesterday I had my free, 30 minute consultation call and now I fully understand the procedure, and it all makes perfect sense now.  You do give your dinar to your charity AFTER the RV, but now (or at least prior to the RV) you need to create a Gift Letter in which you gift the dinar, at today's low value, to the charity.   Then post RV, since the charity actually is the owner of the dinar when it increased in value (and you only had physical possession of it), the tax liability for that gain is borne by the charity and not you.  But since it's a charity and doesn't pay taxes, the charity's tax liability is zero.  Then, post RV when you get a receipt from the charity for the higher value, (which is calculatled in USD) you can deduct that from the income you have when you cash in dinar for yourself (along with any other income you may have).   Also, Bob did recommend gifting no more that $15,000 worth of dinar to each charity, because of the annual gifting limit set by the  IRS.  

 

 

 

 

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Thanks @KristiD.  I signed up for the latest conference and will certainly take advantage of the free 30 minutes to consult with Bob.  I am curious about tithing dinar to your church as it will obviously have more value than $15,000.  The CPAs I worked with in the past had advised me to give physical dinar post RV and to get a receipt showing value in dollars.

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Been thinking about this, and I will ask Bob.  It seems to me that if you do a gifting letter, the IRS will rule the value of the dinar at the time you gifted it and not the time you physically turn it over.  If the IRS does do that, the dollar value will be negligible. I have relatives who tithed their dinar years ago when they initially purchased it, so I know they will not get the tax advantage.  Just thinking outloud.

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1 hour ago, Shedagal said:

The CPAs I worked with in the past had advised me to give physical dinar post RV and to get a receipt showing value in dollars.

 

This sounds like the way to go..... (I'm not a doctor or CPA though)

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1 hour ago, md11fr8dawg said:

KristiD, do you know if those gifting letters need to be notarized?

Actually Yes it does for the IBC .....not sure about straight charity....

Edited by NAKS
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On 1/9/2020 at 6:05 PM, ronscarpa said:

The way to protect yourselves, and maximize what you get to keep is to put/buy your IQD in a Roth IRA. Since they are purchased with post-tax dollars it can grow tax free, and when it increases in value there is no tax on the increase. Post RV/RI you can leave them as IQD should it continue to rise in value, or have the bank cash in for you within the IRA. Also, You can have the bank purchase gold or silver within the Roth IRA. 

 

Now, to withdraw the currency post RV/RI without taxes you need to be 59.5 years old and the Roth IRA needs to be seasoned (5 calander years opened). HOWEVER, if both conditions aren't met, you can still withdraw it by paying a 10% penalty on the amount drawn - which sure beats income tax or capital gains tax. 

 

An additional note: my Tax Attorney (he is a CPA, an Attorney, an Attorney with a Masters in Tax Law, and a Financial Planner) says the tax code is clear about foreign currencies as an investment - they will be taxed as ordinary income when exchanged. Sorry if this isn't what everyone wants to hear. But the Roth IRA would be an excellent option...!

 

Blessings,

Ron  :twothumbs:

Ron , what state is your CPA? Looking for one like this in GA. 
 

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1 hour ago, NAKS said:

Ron , what state is your CPA? Looking for one like this in GA. 
 

 

He Lives in Los Angeles, CA...!  He's semi-retired, only wotking with long time clients.

Plus, he's handled some cases where he argued before the Supreme Court. :salute:

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21 hours ago, Shedagal said:

Thanks @KristiD.  I signed up for the latest conference and will certainly take advantage of the free 30 minutes to consult with Bob.  I am curious about tithing dinar to your church as it will obviously have more value than $15,000.  The CPAs I worked with in the past had advised me to give physical dinar post RV and to get a receipt showing value in dollars.

 Yes, that's exactly what Bob is saying too.  I was just clarify that it's good to do a Gift Letter to your Charity now, but then don't give the actual dinar to the Charity until post RV.  The $15,000 limit applies to the PRE-RV value (right now around that would be over 15 million dinar).  When you physically give the dinar to your Chairty POST-RV, , get a receipt from the Charity for that future/higher value from the Charity.  Then you can use that larger figure as a write off against your income that year (god-willing it will be this year, 2020!).   

 

If you DON'T do the Gift Letter pre-RV, and you just give dinar to your Charity post RV, then you will be responsible for the taxes on the gain.  That's because you were the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  The purpose of doing the Gift Letter pre-RV, is to make the Charity the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  So technically, the Charity would be responsible for the gain and any taxes on that gain.  But because Charities don't have to pay taxes (assuming they're a "qualified Charity" in the eyes of the IRS), then there is zero taxes owed by the Charity.

 

I hope that clarifies this better.

 

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10 minutes ago, KristiD said:

 Yes, that's exactly what Bob is saying too.  I was just clarify that it's good to do a Gift Letter to your Charity now, but then don't give the actual dinar to the Charity until post RV.  The $15,000 limit applies to the PRE-RV value (right now around that would be over 15 million dinar).  When you physically give the dinar to your Chairty POST-RV, , get a receipt from the Charity for that future/higher value from the Charity.  Then you can use that larger figure as a write off against your income that year (god-willing it will be this year, 2020!).   

 

If you DON'T do the Gift Letter pre-RV, and you just give dinar to your Charity post RV, then you will be responsible for the taxes on the gain.  That's because you were the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  The purpose of doing the Gift Letter pre-RV, is to make the Charity the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  So technically, the Charity would be responsible for the gain and any taxes on that gain.  But because Charities don't have to pay taxes (assuming they're a "qualified Charity" in the eyes of the IRS), then there is zero taxes owed by the Charity.

 

I hope that clarifies this better.

 

Thanks, I get it now.

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20 hours ago, Shedagal said:

Been thinking about this, and I will ask Bob.  It seems to me that if you do a gifting letter, the IRS will rule the value of the dinar at the time you gifted it and not the time you physically turn it over.  If the IRS does do that, the dollar value will be negligible. I have relatives who tithed their dinar years ago when they initially purchased it, so I know they will not get the tax advantage.  Just thinking outloud.

 

Yes, I understand your line of thinking here and you should ask Bob about this.  I am assuming it doesn't matter to the IRS that you legally gave the dinar (via a Gift Letter) earlier, and then decided to hold on to the dinar for some time before you actually give it to the charity.  All that Gift Letter is doing is documenting who owns the dinar at the time of the RV. 

 

But I don't know what would happen if, for example, you make a Gift Letter today of, say 1 million dinar to your charity (worth $1,000 today), and the RV does not happen this year.  So on your 2020 taxes, you write off that $1,000 charitable gift.  I don't know how it would work if, say the RV happens next year in 2021 and it comes in at say $.50 and you get a receipt from the Charity for $500,000.  Could you write off $500,000 less the $1,000 you deducted in 2020?  I'm not sure how that would work.  Maybe the key is to make sure you don't claim a deduction on your taxes for the lower, Pre RV value and instead wait to take any duduction until after the RV.   But please ask Bob to clarify this further when you speak to him.  And then please share what he says with us.  Thanks!

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21 hours ago, md11fr8dawg said:

KristiD, do you know if those gifting letters need to be notarized?

 

I asked Bob about this and he said no, it's not necessary.  I'm out of the country so it's a big deal and expensive to get anything notarized.  Bob did say I could mail it to myself as a way to document the date if I wanted to, though.  Personally, I were in the States where it's easy and inexpensive to get things  notarized, I would do that.  You can never be too careful when you're dealing with large amounts of money, after all.

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21 minutes ago, KristiD said:

 

Yes, I understand your line of thinking here and you should ask Bob about this.  I am assuming it doesn't matter to the IRS that you legally gave the dinar (via a Gift Letter) earlier, and then decided to hold on to the dinar for some time before you actually give it to the charity.  All that Gift Letter is doing is documenting who owns the dinar at the time of the RV. 

 

But I don't know what would happen if, for example, you make a Gift Letter today of, say 1 million dinar to your charity (worth $1,000 today), and the RV does not happen this year.  So on your 2020 taxes, you write off that $1,000 charitable gift.  I don't know how it would work if, say the RV happens next year in 2021 and it comes in at say $.50 and you get a receipt from the Charity for $500,000.  Could you write off $500,000 less the $1,000 you deducted in 2020?  I'm not sure how that would work.  Maybe the key is to make sure you don't claim a deduction on your taxes for the lower, Pre RV value and instead wait to take any duduction until after the RV.   But please ask Bob to clarify this further when you speak to him.  And then please share what he says with us.  Thanks!

Will do.  I will do gift letter and get it notarized just in case.  Might not use it but want to have all bases covered.  Thanks, again.

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On 1/9/2020 at 5:05 PM, ronscarpa said:

they will be taxed as ordinary income when exchanged. Sorry if this isn't what everyone wants to hear. But the Roth IRA would be an excellent option

 

Lots of opinions lean that way - ordinary income.

 

OSI is much better than a Roth, but to each their own.

 

:twocents:

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On 1/15/2020 at 7:47 AM, KristiD said:

You do give your dinar to your charity AFTER the RV, but now (or at least prior to the RV) you need to create a Gift Letter in which you gift the dinar, at today's low value, to the charity.

 

I've heard of ideas like that somewhere... ;) 

 

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On 1/9/2020 at 4:05 PM, ronscarpa said:

The way to protect yourselves, and maximize what you get to keep is to put/buy your IQD in a Roth


Wtf - Who’s Roth ? I Put My Money In A Davis ! :o 

 

window-as-money


And With His ‘Mobile Banking’ - He Even Came By In His ‘82 Buick To Pick Up The Deposit...

 

:D  :D  :D 
 

Edited by DinarThug
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On 1/15/2020 at 8:47 AM, KristiD said:

Clarification on the "Tax Tip" that I first posted here.  

 

Yesterday I had my free, 30 minute consultation call and now I fully understand the procedure, and it all makes perfect sense now.  You do give your dinar to your charity AFTER the RV, but now (or at least prior to the RV) you need to create a Gift Letter in which you gift the dinar, at today's low value, to the charity.   Then post RV, since the charity actually is the owner of the dinar when it increased in value (and you only had physical possession of it), the tax liability for that gain is borne by the charity and not you.  But since it's a charity and doesn't pay taxes, the charity's tax liability is zero.  Then, post RV when you get a receipt from the charity for the higher value, (which is calculatled in USD) you can deduct that from the income you have when you cash in dinar for yourself (along with any other income you may have).   Also, Bob did recommend gifting no more that $15,000 worth of dinar to each charity, because of the annual gifting limit set by the  IRS.  

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, KristiD, but this makes no sense to me.  How is the charity the owner of the dinar, if I have physical possession of it and haven't given it to them yet? 

I can create a "gift letter" and then, rip it up if I feel like it, and the charity can't claim the dinar.  

It seems to me, that in order to claim on your taxes that you gave the charity a million dinar, worth $1,000,000, you would have to actually give them that, and a gift letter that you create without actually handing over the dinar, wouldn't count.

What am I missing?

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On 1/15/2020 at 8:47 AM, KristiD said:

Clarification on the "Tax Tip" that I first posted here.  

 

Yesterday I had my free, 30 minute consultation call and now I fully understand the procedure, and it all makes perfect sense now.  You do give your dinar to your charity AFTER the RV, but now (or at least prior to the RV) you need to create a Gift Letter in which you gift the dinar, at today's low value, to the charity.   Then post RV, since the charity actually is the owner of the dinar when it increased in value (and you only had physical possession of it), the tax liability for that gain is borne by the charity and not you.  But since it's a charity and doesn't pay taxes, the charity's tax liability is zero.  Then, post RV when you get a receipt from the charity for the higher value, (which is calculatled in USD) you can deduct that from the income you have when you cash in dinar for yourself (along with any other income you may have).   Also, Bob did recommend gifting no more that $15,000 worth of dinar to each charity, because of the annual gifting limit set by the  IRS.  

 

 

 

 

 

I had another thought -

What if I think the dinar will come out at $1.00 and I made a "gifting letter" saying I would give the charity 1 million dinar, and the dinar only comes out at 10 cents?  Then, maybe I can't afford to give the charity 1 million dinar.  Do I have to make a lot of gifting letters for all different amounts, just to cover myself?

Edited by Floridian

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5 hours ago, KristiD said:

 Yes, that's exactly what Bob is saying too.  I was just clarify that it's good to do a Gift Letter to your Charity now, but then don't give the actual dinar to the Charity until post RV.  The $15,000 limit applies to the PRE-RV value (right now around that would be over 15 million dinar).  When you physically give the dinar to your Chairty POST-RV, , get a receipt from the Charity for that future/higher value from the Charity.  Then you can use that larger figure as a write off against your income that year (god-willing it will be this year, 2020!).   

 

If you DON'T do the Gift Letter pre-RV, and you just give dinar to your Charity post RV, then you will be responsible for the taxes on the gain.  That's because you were the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  The purpose of doing the Gift Letter pre-RV, is to make the Charity the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  So technically, the Charity would be responsible for the gain and any taxes on that gain.  But because Charities don't have to pay taxes (assuming they're a "qualified Charity" in the eyes of the IRS), then there is zero taxes owed by the Charity.

 

I hope that clarifies this better.

 

 

 I'm just reading this post now.  I guess I should have read ALL the posts first before posting myself.

However, how do you PROVE that you gave the dinar to the charity Post RV, if your gifting letter is dated and notarized Pre RV?

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5 hours ago, KristiD said:

 Yes, that's exactly what Bob is saying too.  I was just clarify that it's good to do a Gift Letter to your Charity now, but then don't give the actual dinar to the Charity until post RV.  The $15,000 limit applies to the PRE-RV value (right now around that would be over 15 million dinar).  When you physically give the dinar to your Chairty POST-RV, , get a receipt from the Charity for that future/higher value from the Charity.  Then you can use that larger figure as a write off against your income that year (god-willing it will be this year, 2020!).   

 

If you DON'T do the Gift Letter pre-RV, and you just give dinar to your Charity post RV, then you will be responsible for the taxes on the gain.  That's because you were the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  The purpose of doing the Gift Letter pre-RV, is to make the Charity the legal owner of the dinar on the date of the RV.  So technically, the Charity would be responsible for the gain and any taxes on that gain.  But because Charities don't have to pay taxes (assuming they're a "qualified Charity" in the eyes of the IRS), then there is zero taxes owed by the Charity.

 

I hope that clarifies this better.

 

 

I guess I should have read ALL the posts before posting in this thread, myself.

The advice you got is still not making sense to me.

Even if I have a "gifting letter" to prove I gave the charity dinar Pre-RV, the receipt they give me (when I finally give them the dinar) will be dated Post-RV.  So if the IRS says "let me see a receipt to show you gave them the Dinar", the receipt will be dated Post-RV and I will be liable for all the taxes.

 

If I show them the gifting letter for proof, that will be dated maybe today, before the dinar is worth anything.

 

 

Edited by Floridian

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18 hours ago, Floridian said:

Even if I have a "gifting letter" to prove I gave the charity dinar Pre-RV, the receipt they give me (when I finally give them the dinar) will be dated Post-RV.  So if the IRS says "let me see a receipt to show you gave them the Dinar", the receipt will be dated Post-RV and I will be liable for all the taxes.

 

If I show them the gifting letter for proof, that will be dated maybe today, before the dinar is worth anything.

First off, I'm not a tax professional, I'm only trying to share what a CPA told me.  But I'll give you my own understanding about how this works.  I believe you are wrong to assume that since the receipt is dated post RV, that makes you liable for the gain.  That's the whole purpose of the Gift Letter; to document that you legally gave ownership of the gift PRE-RV.  I do not believe there is a legal requirement that, once you legally gift ownership of something, that you must also transfer physical possession of it at the same time.  The Gift Letter only documents that you transferred ownership, not necessarily possession, as of the date on the Letter.  A well known example of this is a Trust that is created for a minor child, but that child can only access it once they turn 21.   And as Adam says, this is the same way that OSI works, so think of all the Name Reserve people using this concept.  They are creating a Gift Letter today for a corporation that is not even in existence yet - so there's no possible way it can receive possession of it.  Similarly, with a Charity, you are gifting ownership of the dinar today, but retaining possession of it until post RV.  As long as you get the receipt for the higher value  post-RV and can document that you legally gifted "ownership" of it pre-RV (regarless of the value it had at that earlier time), with a receipt for the higher amount from the Charity, I believe the IRS allows you deduct it from your income.  But I do understand the confusion.  Shedagal is also concerned about there being 2 different dates for the gift.  She is going to schedule a personal consultation with Bob (a CPA) and speak to him about this and she said she would report back here after she does so.   But I know Bob has spent many years studying this and he's been a CPA for 40 years, so I trust and believe him when he says this works and is legal.  

 

If you still can't wrap your head around it, you can either 1) wait for Shedagal to get back to us after she personally speaks to Bob, 2) talk to a tax profession that you know and trust yourself now for clarification, 3) attend one of Bob's free webinars and afterwards do a 30 minute free consultation with Bob discuss it with him yourself, 4) dismiss the idea outright, or 5) create the Gift Letters now so you'll at least have them in the future in case you decide later that you're comfortable with how this works.  

 

Your point about not knowing the future RV rate now, so how will you know how much to gift today - is a valid one.  Some people choose to leave the amount of dinar blank in the Gift Letter, and others choose to make several different Gift Letters.  Those are the only 2 options I know about to deal with this problem.  

 

I hope this helps....

 

 

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6 hours ago, KristiD said:

First off, I'm not a tax professional, I'm only trying to share what a CPA told me.  But I'll give you my own understanding about how this works.  I believe you are wrong to assume that since the receipt is dated post RV, that makes you liable for the gain.  That's the whole purpose of the Gift Letter; to document that you legally gave ownership of the gift PRE-RV.  I do not believe there is a legal requirement that, once you legally gift ownership of something, that you must also transfer physical possession of it at the same time.  The Gift Letter only documents that you transferred ownership, not necessarily possession, as of the date on the Letter.  A well known example of this is a Trust that is created for a minor child, but that child can only access it once they turn 21.   And as Adam says, this is the same way that OSI works, so think of all the Name Reserve info" rel="">Name Reserve people using this concept.  They are creating a Gift Letter today for a corporation that is not even in existence yet - so there's no possible way it can receive possession of it.  Similarly, with a Charity, you are gifting ownership of the dinar today, but retaining possession of it until post RV.  As long as you get the receipt for the higher value  post-RV and can document that you legally gifted "ownership" of it pre-RV (regarless of the value it had at that earlier time), with a receipt for the higher amount from the Charity, I believe the IRS allows you deduct it from your income.  But I do understand the confusion.  Shedagal is also concerned about there being 2 different dates for the gift.  She is going to schedule a personal consultation with Bob (a CPA) and speak to him about this and she said she would report back here after she does so.   But I know Bob has spent many years studying this and he's been a CPA for 40 years, so I trust and believe him when he says this works and is legal.  

 

If you still can't wrap your head around it, you can either 1) wait for Shedagal to get back to us after she personally speaks to Bob, 2) talk to a tax profession that you know and trust yourself now for clarification, 3) attend one of Bob's free webinars and afterwards do a 30 minute free consultation with Bob discuss it with him yourself, 4) dismiss the idea outright, or 5) create the Gift Letters now so you'll at least have them in the future in case you decide later that you're comfortable with how this works.  

 

Your point about not knowing the future RV rate now, so how will you know how much to gift today - is a valid one.  Some people choose to leave the amount of dinar blank in the Gift Letter, and others choose to make several different Gift Letters.  Those are the only 2 options I know about to deal with this problem.  

 

I hope this helps....

 

 

 

Yes, it helps.  Thank you KristiD.

Doesn't make much sense to me, but then, I'm not a tax professional either.

I am anxious to hear what SheDaGal has to say after talking to Bob.  Didn't realize he has been a CPA for 40 years.

Meanwhile, I will prepare the gift letter to charity, just in case it works.

Again, thank you.  😊

 

I found this today:

 

What are the Elements of Proof for a Gift?

Not all transfers of property qualify as a gift.  The term “gift” has legal significance and only transfers that meet all the elements of proof will be classified as a gift.  Though laws may vary by region, in general the elements of proof for a gift are:

  • Capacity of the Donor:  The donor must have legal capacity to make a gift.  This includes being of the majority age (usually 18 years old), and having the mental capacity understand that they are giving a gift
  • Intent:  The donor must intend to transfer the property as a gift.  This can be proven through statements, writings, or conduct.  Intent also means that the donor doesn’t expect compensation or consideration for the transfer
  • Delivery to the Donee:  Delivery of the gift can be actual, symbolic, or implied through conduct.  In general an affirmative act must be made by the donor (such as handing over the keys to an automobile) 
  • Acceptance by the Donee:  The donee must also affirmatively accept the gift, without any coercion or undue influence.  Revocable gifts can be revoked up until acceptance

Thus, transfers that don’t satisfy these requirements won’t be classified as a gift.  For example, the “donor” might not have intended to make the transfer a gift if they had asked for payment in return.  As such, the donor might not be allowed to claim tax exemptions that cover gifts. 

 

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/elements-of-proof-for-a-gift.html

 

(I'm guessing the charity can accept the gift after the RV.)

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5 hours ago, Floridian said:

 

Yes, it helps.  Thank you KristiD.

Doesn't make much sense to me, but then, I'm not a tax professional either.

I am anxious to hear what SheDaGal has to say after talking to Bob.  Didn't realize he has been a CPA for 40 years.

Meanwhile, I will prepare the gift letter to charity, just in case it works.

Again, thank you.  😊

 

I found this today:

 

What are the Elements of Proof for a Gift?

Not all transfers of property qualify as a gift.  The term “gift” has legal significance and only transfers that meet all the elements of proof will be classified as a gift.  Though laws may vary by region, in general the elements of proof for a gift are:

  • Capacity of the Donor:  The donor must have legal capacity to make a gift.  This includes being of the majority age (usually 18 years old), and having the mental capacity understand that they are giving a gift
  • Intent:  The donor must intend to transfer the property as a gift.  This can be proven through statements, writings, or conduct.  Intent also means that the donor doesn’t expect compensation or consideration for the transfer
  • Delivery to the Donee:  Delivery of the gift can be actual, symbolic, or implied through conduct.  In general an affirmative act must be made by the donor (such as handing over the keys to an automobile) 
  • Acceptance by the Donee:  The donee must also affirmatively accept the gift, without any coercion or undue influence.  Revocable gifts can be revoked up until acceptance

Thus, transfers that don’t satisfy these requirements won’t be classified as a gift.  For example, the “donor” might not have intended to make the transfer a gift if they had asked for payment in return.  As such, the donor might not be allowed to claim tax exemptions that cover gifts. 

 

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/elements-of-proof-for-a-gift.html

 

(I'm guessing the charity can accept the gift after the RV.)

FYI - the conference I'm attending is in early Feb., so I probably won't have any info until mid-Feb (after my phone consult with Bob).  Great info on gifts, Floridian.

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16 minutes ago, Shedagal said:

FYI - the conference I'm attending is in early Feb., so I probably won't have any info until mid-Feb (after my phone consult with Bob).  Great info on gifts, Floridian.

 

Thanks, Shedagal.  😊

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So I had my 30 minute call with Bob yesterday - what a great guy.  Really sincerely reviewed my plans and assured me I was all set.  As for the charitable donation, he said the gifting letter would confirm 'intent to donate' at the purchase price.  I am still not convinced that will work, but what have we got to lose.   

 

I would highly recommend for anyone who is thinking about doing the seminar and having a call with Bob to do so.  He answered every question I had.

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