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I attended Breitling's and Bob' Adams' free tax planning webinar last night where I learned about this.  If you're NOT participating in OSi and if you do plan to gift money to charity after the RV, they recommeneded that you give the charity actual dinar AFTER the RV. Then the charity can just convert that dinar to USD.  Be sure to get a receipt from the charity for the amount in USD of the value of dinar you give them. You should be able to deduct that amount against the taxes you'll owe on however much dinar you cash in for yourself personally.  (and it may be you can deduct up to 50% of your income in charitable contributions, which is a lot).   Do not cash in the dinar first and then gift dollars to your charity because if you do that, then you'll be liable for the taxes on that gain.  And if you give the charity dinar before the RV, you'll only get the smaller write off on the value of the dinar you gifted in the year you gifted it.  But if you give the charity dinar after the RV, since you didn't cash in the dinar yourself, you won't owe taxes.  And the charity won't owe taxes either because by the time they received the dinar, it was already valued at the new, higher amount.  Last night was the first time I heard this explained to me, but I think it makes sense.  Still I plan to ask my taxman with the time comes, and you should too, just to be sure.  But for people who plan to give a large amount to charity, it could significantly reduce your taxes on the money you're keeping for yourself, so it's definitely worth verifying.

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Thanks KritiD. Great tip and it does make a lot of sense, all tax men are not created equal and it is good to bring these types of perspectives to the table.

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Thanks KristD , I plan on giving to some of my favorite charities as soon as this RV s ! That does make since to me too! 🤠

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1 hour ago, gregp said:

Capital Gains?

 

It's unclelar at this point.  Some (like xtaxguy here) say yes, and others (like Bob Adams) say no.  Even Adam has said it's unclear.  I researched what xtaxguy member had to say about it (and he looks to have the best expertise in this area) and consequently changed my opinon to Capital Gains (where I believed Ordinary Income before).  But, even though I can make my case that I bought this as an investment (which means Cap Gains), there's still risk.  If, in the future the IRS decides to specifically define it as Ordinary Income, AND if they make it retroactive - then it's Ordinary Income.  I didn't think it was legal for the IRS to make it retroactive, but I was recently listening to Aaron Russo and they've done that before (and not only that, they have the gall to apply penalities and interest!).  But now with Trump,.....   He's high on Capital Gains so it may play out that the IRS might decides it's Capital Gains in the future.  

 

Still, this idea about gifting dinar post RV could be a game changer for me.  Depending on what the rate is, I may gift a good percentage of my dinar.  And if you can still write off charitable donations up to 50% of your income, that could take a huge bit out of the taxes that I pay.

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The way to protect yourselves, and maximize what you get to keep is to put/buy your IQD in a Roth IRA. Since they are purchased with post-tax dollars it can grow tax free, and when it increases in value there is no tax on the increase. Post RV/RI you can leave them as IQD should it continue to rise in value, or have the bank cash in for you within the IRA. Also, You can have the bank purchase gold or silver within the Roth IRA. 

 

Now, to withdraw the currency post RV/RI without taxes you need to be 59.5 years old and the Roth IRA needs to be seasoned (5 calander years opened). HOWEVER, if both conditions aren't met, you can still withdraw it by paying a 10% penalty on the amount drawn - which sure beats income tax or capital gains tax. 

 

An additional note: my Tax Attorney (he is a CPA, an Attorney, an Attorney with a Masters in Tax Law, and a Financial Planner) says the tax code is clear about foreign currencies as an investment - they will be taxed as ordinary income when exchanged. Sorry if this isn't what everyone wants to hear. But the Roth IRA would be an excellent option...!

 

Blessings,

Ron  :twothumbs:

Edited by ronscarpa
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On 1/9/2020 at 6:43 AM, KristiD said:

 

It's unclelar at this point.  Some (like xtaxguy here) say yes, and others (like Bob Adams) say no.  Even Adam has said it's unclear.  I researched what xtaxguy member had to say about it (and he looks to have the best expertise in this area) and consequently changed my opinon to Capital Gains (where I believed Ordinary Income before).  But, even though I can make my case that I bought this as an investment (which means Cap Gains), there's still risk.  If, in the future the IRS decides to specifically define it as Ordinary Income, AND if they make it retroactive - then it's Ordinary Income.  I didn't think it was legal for the IRS to make it retroactive, but I was recently listening to Aaron Russo and they've done that before (and not only that, they have the gall to apply penalities and interest!).  But now with Trump,.....   He's high on Capital Gains so it may play out that the IRS might decides it's Capital Gains in the future.  

 

Still, this idea about gifting dinar post RV could be a game changer for me.  Depending on what the rate is, I may gift a good percentage of my dinar.  And if you can still write off charitable donations up to 50% of your income, that could take a huge bit out of the taxes that I pay.


Awesome.  Thanks!!

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On 1/9/2020 at 5:05 PM, ronscarpa said:

The way to protect yourselves, and maximize what you get to keep is to put/buy your IQD in a Roth IRA. Since they are purchased with post-tax dollars it can grow tax free, and when it increases in value there is no tax on the increase. Post RV/RI you can leave them as IQD should it continue to rise in value, or have the bank cash in for you within the IRA. Also, You can have the bank purchase gold or silver within the Roth IRA. 

 

Now, to withdraw the currency post RV/RI without taxes you need to be 59.5 years old and the Roth IRA needs to be seasoned (5 calander years opened). HOWEVER, if both conditions aren't met, you can still withdraw it by paying a 10% penalty on the amount drawn - which sure beats income tax or capital gains tax. 

 

An additional note: my Tax Attorney (he is a CPA, an Attorney, an Attorney with a Masters in Tax Law, and a Financial Planner) says the tax code is clear about foreign currencies as an investment - they will be taxed as ordinary income when exchanged. Sorry if this isn't what everyone wants to hear. But the Roth IRA would be an excellent option...!

 

Blessings,

Ron  :twothumbs:


Thanks Ron!!

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On 1/9/2020 at 8:05 PM, ronscarpa said:

The way to protect yourselves, and maximize what you get to keep is to put/buy your IQD in a Roth IRA. Since they are purchased with post-tax dollars it can grow tax free, and when it increases in value there is no tax on the increase. Post RV/RI you can leave them as IQD should it continue to rise in value, or have the bank cash in for you within the IRA. Also, You can have the bank purchase gold or silver within the Roth IRA. 

 

Now, to withdraw the currency post RV/RI without taxes you need to be 59.5 years old and the Roth IRA needs to be seasoned (5 calander years opened). HOWEVER, if both conditions aren't met, you can still withdraw it by paying a 10% penalty on the amount drawn - which sure beats income tax or capital gains tax. 

 

Yes, Roth's are great vehicles, but the 5 year seasoning could be a problem for people who want to start that now, especially if the RV really is about to happen.  Additionally, IRAs require a custodian physically hold your dinar for you.  Personally, I am concerned about all the unrest around the world and my plan is to liquide all (or most) of my dinar and put most of my wealth into land, precious metals and cryptos.  NO way do I want most my wealth tied up in currency for years.  So an IRA is not something I would do myself.  But for others who do like it,  I did learn that Bob Adam's works with a group who sets up an LLC for you and that LLC acts as your custodian, so you can keep physcial possession of your dinar yourself (instead of having an institutional custodian hold it for you).  If I did want to do an IRA, I would definitely want to go that route and physcially hold my dinar myself.

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On 1/9/2020 at 8:05 PM, ronscarpa said:

An additional note: my Tax Attorney (he is a CPA, an Attorney, an Attorney with a Masters in Tax Law, and a Financial Planner) says the tax code is clear about foreign currencies as an investment - they will be taxed as ordinary income when exchanged. Sorry if this isn't what everyone wants to hear. But the Roth IRA would be an excellent option...!

 

Fair enough, but there are many other tax attorneys and CPAs who are just as sure it is Capital Gains.  I mentioned above that I also used to think it was Ordinary Income until I researched all that xtaxguy (a member here) had to say on the subject.  He was a managing partner at one of the Big 8 accounting firms and did the taxes for a major US corporation who had long term currency gains as a supplementary form of income fromt their regular line of business (and to me, a managing partner of a Big 8 accounting firm who did the taxes for a major corporation who had supplementary income from exchange of currency is probably the best tax authority you could every find on the subject.)  He provided quite a bit of information about it - which I studied and rcross referenced with what I found from the IRS.  He specifically mentions the exception to the currency gains as Ordinary Income rule (of the IRS) saying that thsoe rules apply to a business that deals in currency as its primary line of work.   For those who don't have a business dealing in currency (like probably most everyone here) , it's an investment which is taxed as Cap Gains.  I suggest people read what he had to say, and even read some of my posts where I went to great lengths to consolidate everything and simply it all.  So in the end, I changed my position and now believe it should be Capital Gains.  But even so, there's still the chance that the IRS will one day make a ruling and definitively state that these types of gains are Ordianry Income and then decide to make that ruling retroactive.  

 

Which all brings me back to the point of my orginal post which is that, for anyone like me who plans to give significant money to charity, if you gift it in dinar post RV and get a receipt showing the current, post RV value, of it, you can deduct that amount , dollar for dollar (up to 50% of your total income I believe) from the gain you have from the dinar you cash in and keep for yourself.

 

Not one size fits all for sure, but for anyone who is serious about learning how to best protect their new wealth (and is not going the OSI route), I encourage you to go to Breitlings site and sign up so you can be notified when they do more of these tax planning webinars.  They are free and afterwards he even gives you a free 1/2 hour phone consultation to see if any of their programs fit you.  If they don't, at least you learned a lot - like I did.  

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6 hours ago, KristiD said:

 

Yes, Roth's are great vehicles, but the 5 year seasoning could be a problem for people who want to start that now, especially if the RV really is about to happen. 

 

As I mentioned above, to withdraw the currency post RV/RI without paying taxes you need to be 59.5 years old and the Roth IRA needs to be seasoned (5 calander years opened). HOWEVER, if both conditions aren't met, you can still withdraw it by paying a 10% penalty on the amount drawn - which sure beats income tax or capital gains tax. 

 

I currently have an LLC for my investments post RV/RI as I will be liquidating my IQD, but that depends on the rate, and what I feel it will do after the initial rate change. But, if your IQD are held in the LLC you will still have to pay taxes....either at income tax rates or capital gains rates...!

 

Guess what the IRS will pick, then off we will go to Tax Court. We'll have to get a Determination Letter (IN WRITING) from the IRS prior to filing, to cover yourself if they say capital gains; because an auditor can challenge your return if he/she thinks its ordinary income based upon his/her interpretation of the tax code - and you don't want fines and penalties. Just some food for thought..,!

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@ronscarpa

 

And.......@KristiD

 

Sorry couldn't seem to do both individually...so added the second as a post to be Kristi was copied in...

 

Looked into the taxation possibilities in DC IRS office many years ago.....they were unclear.....(but hey, it's the Government)....and suggested submitting a request for a determination letter/judgement after any change in value. About 90 days at a cost of about $1500...

 

I was told if there were any later determinations the IRS would have to adhere to the guidance they had provided to you on the individual basis. 

 

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/determination-opinion-and-advisory-letters

 

Ron.....?....the Metals IRA's you mention.....are we talking ETF's.....or the bank holding the physical product for you....if vaulted....where and how verified.......if just paper...((ETF)......there is about 90% of paper that has no physical metals attached/backed.....same concept as fractional banking....(smoke and mirrors)

 

I'm thankful this topic has been added and that we are getting some good constructive conversation on this....

 

I'll end this as Ron would....

 

Be Blessed!

 

CL

 

 

 

On 1/9/2020 at 7:43 AM, KristiD said:

 

It's unclelar at this point.  Some (like xtaxguy here) say yes, and others (like Bob Adams) say no.  Even Adam has said it's unclear.  I researched what xtaxguy member had to say about it (and he looks to have the best expertise in this area) and consequently changed my opinon to Capital Gains (where I believed Ordinary Income before).  But, even though I can make my case that I bought this as an investment (which means Cap Gains), there's still risk.  If, in the future the IRS decides to specifically define it as Ordinary Income, AND if they make it retroactive - then it's Ordinary Income.  I didn't think it was legal for the IRS to make it retroactive, but I was recently listening to Aaron Russo and they've done that before (and not only that, they have the gall to apply penalities and interest!).  But now with Trump,.....   He's high on Capital Gains so it may play out that the IRS might decides it's Capital Gains in the future.  

 

Still, this idea about gifting dinar post RV could be a game changer for me.  Depending on what the rate is, I may gift a good percentage of my dinar.  And if you can still write off charitable donations up to 50% of your income, that could take a huge bit out of the taxes that I pay.

 

 

 

 

 

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@ronscarpa

 

One more thing.....just for clarity for everyone....

 

ROTH IRA

 

Thx....      CL 

 

As I mentioned above, to withdraw the currency post RV/RI without paying taxes you need to be 59.5 years old and the Roth IRA needs to be seasoned (5 calander years opened). HOWEVER, if both conditions aren't met, you can still withdraw it by paying a 10% penalty on the amount drawn - which sure beats income tax or capital gains tax. 

 

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26 minutes ago, coorslite21 said:

Ron.....?....the Metals IRA's you mention.....are we talking ETF's.....or the bank holding the physical product for you....if vaulted....where and how verified.......if just paper...((ETF)......there is about 90% of paper that has no physical metals attached/backed.....same concept as fractional banking....(smoke and mirrors) https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/determination-opinion-and-advisory-letters

 

I'm thankful this topic has been added and that we are getting some good constructive conversation on this....

I'll end this as Ron would....

Be Blessed!

CL

 

Thanks CL...!  It will depend on the particular institution that holds your Roth IRA.  Some will allow anything of tangible value, others will specify limitations on what they will allow. I would think ETF's are acceptable. As for precious metals, it might depend upon their storage capability. Be blessed my friend. :salute:RON

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8 hours ago, Dinarrock said:

Great discussion everyone but I just pray we actually get to this big problem of just HOW we are going to be taxed!! LOL

 

That really would be a great problem to have.......the reality is the current tax code is around 70 000 pages long.....and with the proper guidance almost everyone in the country can get some legal tax reduction today by using knowledgeable proffessionals....CPA/Tax Attorney.....

 

This isn't tax evasion or avoidance.....just using the system to your benefit.....such as a GE.......no taxes paid.....(yet still on the brink of bankruptcy.....a story for another day)

Links to research.....

 

https://taxfoundation.org/income-tax-code-spans-more-70000-pages

 

https://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml

 

CL 

 

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10 hours ago, Dinarrock said:

Great discussion everyone but I just pray we actually get to this big problem of just HOW we are going to be taxed!! LOL

I’m with you DR, I welcome the Tax problem, I know that Adam Montana already has this problem solved! Case closed! 🤠

Edited by Artitech
Too many words
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Thank you all for the great information here.

It is not clear how we are going to be taxed when the RV happens 

Before Taxes we need the RV to happen first, them I recommend to hired the best CPA you can find.

I believe the DV/VIP people will be guided in the right direction 

Again, thanks for all the info.

 

 

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For anyone interested in attending the free tax planning webinar, they just opened up a new webinar about an hour ago.  They will accept 100 people.  Listen to Breitling's most recent audio and at the end, they give you the website to go and sign up and reserve your spot.  After you attend the webinar, you can also signe up for a free, private, 30 minute consultation with Bob Adams - which is well worth doing.

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