raise zeros from dinar and currency exchange

[gr8cooker142]

Why is this post still going? All you are doing is promoting a ridiculous post that never happened

[Realdinar]

Yeah, I can plainly see that the Iraqi Dinar is not a scam but real money. And I like that fact. Though it goes completely against the Sovereign Society's view. The other wise highly respectable organization emphatically claims the Dinar is a scam.

And, more, I can easily see that the Dinar's value will very likely rise. . . over time, and so I look at it as a long term investment, whereas holding USDs definitely is not.

However, a prospecting time when the 25K bills will no longer be worth anything makes the idea of what I'm holding to be a long term investment not all that sound. That's the main risk, as I see it. Having held Dinars becoming worthless. BUT if I can exchange my holdings to new 25 Dinar bills when and if they are released I will be exceedingly happy. In fact, I would likely then feel like buying more of those, and then just waiting out the rise while watching the USD plunge, crash and burn.

That's the way I look at the game, anyway.

But there is an ongoing annoyance. It's like there's a new breed of pumpers which are the main pumpers these days, and these are the plethora of peeps the old pumpers have pumped. The new guys have been infected and their infection strives to spread the infection. ("Go RV!") And there's no antidote. Reality and supportive Intel phases them not at all.

Interesting perspective. But isnt trading a 25000 dinar note for a 25 dinar note a bad exchange?

Im under the impression that 25000 dinars are more than 25 dinars. It was mentioned in an earlier post that if the Cbi is lying about their statistics it may prove to hurt their trust-worthiness internationally. Wouldnt having an exchange rate of 25000 dinars for 25 dinars be a pretty shady move as well?

We all know the value of the dinar is being manipulated to be sustained at 1170. So as investors we all know the value of the dinar could be placed higher, thus an "RV".

So to say "if I break even is a good deal" is not my idea of a good deal. Breaking even is not inspiring and wastes the most priceless comodity, time.

[estewart]

". . . . I know they will re-value to a nice tidy sum. . . . "

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/79589-raise-zeros-from-dinar-and-currency-exchange/page__st__140#ixzz1VD1x1JOR\

WHOA! Your Intel must come from a high up level source. You got connections inside a County Sheriff's Department or something?

[2fast4u2c]

Blue...I hear you. Since June I have come to my senses as well. It is a wait and see but I am no longer being hyped up.

Being realistic is a good thing.

Edited August 16, 2011 by 2fast4u2c

[dinarck]

Interesting perspective. But isnt trading a 25000 dinar note for a 25 dinar note a bad exchange?

Im under the impression that 25000 dinars are more than 25 dinars. It was mentioned in an earlier post that if the Cbi is lying about their statistics it may prove to hurt their trust-worthiness internationally. Wouldnt having an exchange rate of 25000 dinars for 25 dinars be a pretty shady move as well?

We all know the value of the dinar is being manipulated to be sustained at 1170. So as investors we all know the value of the dinar could be placed higher, thus an "RV".

So to say "if I break even is a good deal" is not my idea of a good deal. Breaking even is not inspiring and wastes the most priceless comodity, time.

25,000 isnt more than a new 25. They are both worth around 25 USD.

[estewart]

Interesting perspective. But isnt trading a 25000 dinar note for a 25 dinar note a bad exchange?

Im under the impression that 25000 dinars are more than 25 dinars. It was mentioned in an earlier post that if the Cbi is lying about their statistics it may prove to hurt their trust-worthiness internationally. Wouldnt having an exchange rate of 25000 dinars for 25 dinars be a pretty shady move as well?

We all know the value of the dinar is being manipulated to be sustained at 1170. So as investors we all know the value of the dinar could be placed higher, thus an "RV".

So to say "if I break even is a good deal" is not my idea of a good deal. Breaking even is not inspiring and wastes the most priceless comodity, time.

It appears that you are not understanding what the prospective RD is about.

You asked: ". . . . isnt trading a 25000 dinar note for a 25 dinar note a bad exchange?"

The new 25 Dinar bills will equal the present 25K Dinar bills. They will be equivalent to each other. The same thing, really. They will both buy the same stuff. . . . exactly. . . for a time. Ultimately, the 25K Dinar bills will be all pulled out of circulation by the Central Bank. More, the new 25 Dinar bills will cost the same as the 25K Dinars did. Around twenty-one Dollars, USD.

All they are mainly doing is eliminating the signs that a huge inflation occurred by removing three zeros. It's a cameo job. A slight of hand trick. A Now-you-see-it, Now-you-don't deal.

But also note that the new 25 Dinar will be more or less on par with a US 20 Dollar bill, and I, for one, think this is the main unspoken about aim of the looming RD.

I entirely agree that the value of the dinar is, obviously, being manipulated, for being sustained at 1170. Further, that the value of the Dinar could be left to jump to where it would be after an RD if it had not been held back. That's possible. And if that happens there will likely be many shouting that an RV has occurred. "Whoopie!" It was on quite a healthy up-rise until it got stopped. So a possible jump could be pretty good. Might even double. But. . . that would undo the manufactured parity. So, such an increase may not be allowed to happen.

[Realdinar]

25,000 isnt more than a new 25. They are both worth around 25 USD.

Just in case the rd experts get impatient, I really am trying to understand. So they are rv ing the dinar, just not the ones that were bought by us. They are just rving the new dinar, because they cant afford to rv the old dinar and are untrustworthy and dishonest?

[Realdinar]

It appears that you are not understanding what the prospective RD is about.

You asked: ". . . . isnt trading a 25000 dinar note for a 25 dinar note a bad exchange?"

The new 25 Dinar bills will equal the present 25K Dinar bills. They will be equivalent to each other. The same thing, really. They will both buy the same stuff. . . . exactly. . . for a time. Ultimately, the 25K Dinar bills will be all pulled out of circulation by the Central Bank. More, the new 25 Dinar bills will cost the same as the 25K Dinars did. Around twenty-one Dollars, USD.

All they are mainly doing is eliminating the signs that a huge inflation occurred by removing three zeros. It's a cameo job. A slight of hand trick. A Now-you-see-it, Now-you-don't deal.

But also note that the new 25 Dinar will be more or less on par with a US 20 Dollar bill, and I, for one, think this is the main unspoken about aim of the looming RD.

I entirely agree that the value of the dinar is, obviously, being manipulated, for being sustained at 1170. Further, that the value of the Dinar could be left to jump to where it would be after an RD if it had not been held back. That's possible. And if that happens there will likely be many shouting that an RV has occurred. "Whoopie!" It was on quite a healthy up-rise until it got stopped. So a possible jump could be pretty good. Might even double. But. . . that would undo the manufactured parity. So, such an increase may not be allowed to happen.

I am understanding your explaination of the rd. So basically Iraq wants to get on par with the us dollar. Instead of honoring 25000 dinars at an exchange of 1 for 1, they are saying that it is equal to the new 25 dinar note which will be 20 dollars. So this is a scam? This is the real smoke and mirrors, then. Instead of being honest, they will just not honor the old note actually. Then print a new one. So this investment is pointless.

[jg167]

Just in case the rd experts get impatient, I really am trying to understand. So they are rv ing the dinar, just not the ones that were bought by us. They are just rving the new dinar, because they cant afford to rv the old dinar and are untrustworthy and dishonest?

If they RV and RD, then the RV would be for both currencies. For example suppose they do an RD now, so XID (new iraqi dinars, I'll just make that symbol up) would be worht 1000 IQD. So 1000 IQD is worth $0.86 USD and 1 XID is also worth the same. If thet were to do a small RV say from 1170 now, to say 800 IQD per dollar, then 1000 IQD wold be worth $1.25 USD and 1XID would still be equal to 1000 IQD or the same $1.25 .

An RD is just having two currencies that have a fixed exchange to each other, but that both can float up or down in relation to other currencies outside the country. So an RV would effect both currencies in the same way percentage wise.

Edited August 16, 2011 by jg167

[Realdinar]

If they RV and RD, then the RV would be for both currencies. For example suppose they do an RD now, so XID (new iraqi dinars, I'll just make that symbol up) would be worht 1000 IQD. So 1000 IQD is worth $0.86 USD and 1 XID is also worth the same. If thet were to do a small RV say from 1170 now, to say 800 IQD per dollar, then 1000 IQD wold be worth $1.25 USD and 1XID would still be equal to 1000 IQD or the same $1.25 .

An RD is just having two currencies that have a fixed exchange to each other, but that both can float up or down in relation to other currencies outside the country. So an RV would effect both currencies in the same way percentage wise.

I appreciate the patience to explain this viewpoint in terms I can understand. I will still say that this is a way to keep from honoring the iqd. There are zeros on them. It is dishonest. Edited August 16, 2011 by Realdinar

[zigmeister]

I appreciate the patience to explain this viewpoint in terms I can understand. I will still say that this is a way to keep from honoring the iqd. There are zeros on them. It is dishonest.

I agree.

[jg167]

I appreciate the patience to explain this viewpoint in terms I can understand. I will still say that this is a way to keep from honoring the iqd. There are zeros on them. It is dishonest.

No problem, it is confusing. I don't think its dishonest, its just saying that they need to reduce the number of dinars in circulation if they want to get the value of the dinar back up in the dollar range. Saddam printed 10s of trillions of dinars so naturally the value of each one went into the dumper as the value that total represents, namely the Iraq economy, was if anything going down at the time. Now they need to undo that mess. Its disappointing to think we all won't be instant millionaires, but things that are too good to be true, usually are not true.

[snakes251]

OK, so what happens to the 10,000 notes? For that matter, 5000, 1000? I get that the 25k note may not be valued at 25000 dinar after the RV but 25 dinars to curb inflation. If a LOP were to occur, I'd guess it'd be with higher notes like these. And that raises another question--would they leave the lower denoms alone? Your insights, please...

[Darin]

OK, so what happens to the 10,000 notes? For that matter, 5000, 1000? I get that the 25k note may not be valued at 25000 dinar after the RV but 25 dinars to curb inflation. If a LOP were to occur, I'd guess it'd be with higher notes like these. And that raises another question--would they leave the lower denoms alone? Your insights, please...

Basically the same thing.....

The way many perceive this R/D in terms of a LOP to play out is simply an entirely new currency will be printed. It will co-exist with the current currency (The IQD we know as of today). They will run two separate exchange rates (the 1170, and likely one set at 1.17). The denominations will likely be similar to the current denominations. (I.e., 25, 10, 5, 1, .5, .25, and .05). The currency auctions will likely draw in the old notes. Banks will also not release anything except new notes. And the overall process will allow a substantial time to turn in the high denominations from foreign countries.

Could this all be confusing? Yes! imagine if you went into a store, and bought an item using a 25,000 note that cost 15,000 IQD. The cashier could simply hand you a 10 note and send you along your way. They would need to understand two separate exchange rates and also deal with three separate currencies. I think that may be an issue which could cause concerns of confusion.

If the R/D (LoP) does occur, I know I do not intend to sit & wait, or hope that the rate will rise... The Turkey example, the rate did not increase unitl the old notes were no longer valid. You can maybe exchange for new notes, but, you will also likely pay a fee or spread on both sides of that exchange. If you went through a dealer, you likely paid a significant mark-up, so a R/V would nearly need to be 30-40% above its value at the moment to make any profit. All which may take months to years to even see a return...

So, I think a hybrid scenario where they LOP & RV will either happen initially or at the back-end... (Not so much in the middle)

Which is why I would exchange out my old notes for USD nearly right away... Before I no longer have that option.

[BlueOrchid919]

Just in case the rd experts get impatient, I really am trying to understand. So they are rv ing the dinar, just not the ones that were bought by us. They are just rving the new dinar, because they cant afford to rv the old dinar and are untrustworthy and dishonest?

ALL of the current dinars (25K, 10K, 5K, 1K, 500, 250, 50 and coins) will be replaced by NEW CURRENCY.

The NEW currency will be usable at the same time as the old currency, until all the old currency works its way back to the banks and out of circulation, and then destroyed. When some one spends a 25,000 current dinar note to buy food worth less than 25,000 current dinars, he will be given change back in the new currency. 1000 old dinars will be equal to 1 new dinar. So, 25,000 current dinars will be equal to 25 new dinars. For example, if his food purchase amounts to 15,000 dinars....he will receive 10 new dinars back. 15,000 old dinars plus 10 new dinars is equal to his original 25,000 dinar note. Same for the 10K note, the 5K note and all the other existing currency denominations. When the merchant (store owner/business person) takes in the 25,000 old dinar note and gives back change in new dinars, he will take the 25,000 old dinar note to the bank to exchange it for new currency (to make change for the next purchases in his store).

This is why the govt has proposed creating coins. To make change for 1 new dinar and smaller amounts. The coins will last FAR longer than paper currency. The small denoms will be used a lot for small priced purchases, just like here in the western world. Paper currency does not last long. Our US dollar gets replaced on average every 18 months. The $1 bill is 45% of the currency that gets printed every year. So for that reason, the new 1 dinar and smaller denoms will be created in coinage. The coins last a very long time.

Anyone in Iraq holding current dinars will be able to take them to their local bank and exchange them for new dinars. Or spend them locally for merchandise. Every 1000 old dinars turned in will give them 1 new dinar. The old 1000 dinar note and the new 1 dinar note will be worth exactly the same. There will be no loss in value to the Iraqi people between the old note and the new note. They will have the same purchasing power. The Iraqi government anticipates the transition from old currency to new currency to take approx 3 years. They are basing their process on Turkey's and Brazil's removal of zeros. In the current Iraq Development Plan, they have allowed 5 years for the entire process. The same Plan states the new dinar will be worth $0.86. http://www.iauiraq.org/documents/1159/ndp24th.pdf

This is not dishonest. It is how countries remove zeros from their inflated currency. Iraq doing this will move their dinars closer to dollar parity which they have wanted all along. The new dinar will be worth 0.86 dollars. Hopefully to increase in value once the new currency is distributed and in use.

Call it what you will, this process has been done many, many times all over the world. Iraq is simply doing the same thing.

Iraq has stated their intention of returning the dinar to before the war values AFTER the removal of 3 zeros and release of the new dinars.

Edited August 16, 2011 by BlueOrchid919

[estewart]

Just in case the rd experts get impatient, I really am trying to understand. So they are rv ing the dinar, just not the ones that were bought by us. They are just rving the new dinar, because they cant afford to rv the old dinar and are untrustworthy and dishonest?

No. There's no talk about RVing anything in Iraq. Just RDing.

And the whole deal needs to be hammered out yet by Parliament. So the entire matter could all be entirely changed as a result of a debate, or argument, I mean, fight, actually.

You can see many Dinar owners on the various forums stating that the Dinar will RV right after it is RDed. But they are simply making that up because it sounds good. HOWEVER, the Dinar actually COULD RV after the RD. I am not saying it won't because I am not an Iraqi working in the government or for the Bank there. So I don't know what will happen. HOWEVER. . . I do have an idea of what MIGHT could.

After the RD the Dinar and the USD will be close in value. It is my theory that the Iraqi government wants to ween its population away from its preference for using the US Dollar. One way to do that is to make the Dinar and the US Dollar provide the exact same spending power. Then the Central Bank would start drawing USDs out of circulation.

Now after an RD the Dinar will be close to the USD in value, having only $0.17 difference. One Dinar will be worth $1.17 USD. At least, that's what I have seen in article coming out of Iraq. So I think it could be possible that an RD will occur for a one to one exchange rate. It's like before the possible RV it would take $1.17 to buy a new Dinar. After a possible RV occurring after an RD it would be an even trade. One could be able to buy a new Dinar for seventeen cents less. This is just a guess at what might could happen. But I think there is a good chance it will turn out this way. Makes perfect sense to me.

BUT I sure do hope Iraq does not peg the Dinar against the USD, say, like Belize does, where Belize's "dollar" (whatever it is called, forget) is worth two US Dollars. Exactly. That's fifty cents per. As the US economy crashes and it's Dollar hugely loses value so does the currency of all the nations which have pegged their money to the USD. At best, they should be pegging their currency against a basket of currencies, like the new World's Reserve Currency will be if it replaces the USD.

[estewart]

I am understanding your explaination of the rd. So basically Iraq wants to get on par with the us dollar. Instead of honoring 25000 dinars at an exchange of 1 for 1, they are saying that it is equal to the new 25 dinar note which will be 20 dollars. So this is a scam? This is the real smoke and mirrors, then. Instead of being honest, they will just not honor the old note actually. Then print a new one. So this investment is pointless.

No. It's in no way a scam. It would be more on the order of being screwed.

[Alex38]

.86 to 1.30 ----- it's gonna be fuuuuuun!!!

[Realdinar]

ALL of the current dinars (25K, 10K, 5K, 1K, 500, 250, 50 and coins) will be replaced by NEW CURRENCY.

The NEW currency will be usable at the same time as the old currency, until all the old currency works its way back to the banks and out of circulation, and then destroyed. When some one spends a 25,000 current dinar note to buy food worth less than 25,000 current dinars, he will be given change back in the new currency. 1000 old dinars will be equal to 1 new dinar. So, 25,000 current dinars will be equal to 25 new dinars. For example, if his food purchase amounts to 15,000 dinars....he will receive 10 new dinars back. 15,000 old dinars plus 10 new dinars is equal to his original 25,000 dinar note. Same for the 10K note, the 5K note and all the other existing currency denominations. When the merchant (store owner/business person) takes in the 25,000 old dinar note and gives back change in new dinars, he will take the 25,000 old dinar note to the bank to exchange it for new currency (to make change for the next purchases in his store).

This is why the govt has proposed creating coins. To make change for 1 new dinar and smaller amounts. The coins will last FAR longer than paper currency. The small denoms will be used a lot for small priced purchases, just like here in the western world. Paper currency does not last long. Our US dollar gets replaced on average every 18 months. The $1 bill is 45% of the currency that gets printed every year. So for that reason, the new 1 dinar and smaller denoms will be created in coinage. The coins last a very long time.

Anyone in Iraq holding current dinars will be able to take them to their local bank and exchange them for new dinars. Or spend them locally for merchandise. Every 1000 old dinars turned in will give them 1 new dinar. The old 1000 dinar note and the new 1 dinar note will be worth exactly the same. There will be no loss in value to the Iraqi people between the old note and the new note. They will have the same purchasing power. The Iraqi government anticipates the transition from old currency to new currency to take approx 3 years. They are basing their process on Turkey's and Brazil's removal of zeros. In the current Iraq Development Plan, they have allowed 5 years for the entire process. The same Plan states the new dinar will be worth $0.86. http://www.iauiraq.org/documents/1159/ndp24th.pdf

This is not dishonest. It is how countries remove zeros from their inflated currency. Iraq doing this will move their dinars closer to dollar parity which they have wanted all along. The new dinar will be worth 0.86 dollars. Hopefully to increase in value once the new currency is distributed and in use.

Call it what you will, this process has been done many, many times all over the world. Iraq is simply doing the same thing.

Iraq has stated their intention of returning the dinar to before the war values AFTER the removal of 3 zeros and release of the new dinars.

It is dishonest. Everybody and their mother knows the dinar is intentionally being suppressed at 1170. So it could already be more valuable in terms of an exchange right now. So instead of rving right now, they will print a smaller denom and theeennn rv. So because all the third world broke failing economies are doing it, iraq will too. Its dishonest and shady. For the citizen and investor. They had better never call us evil western infidels again.

[estewart]

.86 to 1.30 ----- it's gonna be fuuuuuun!!!

That's for the new Dinar, and not what we are holding.

[BlueOrchid919]

It is dishonest. Everybody and their mother knows the dinar is intentionally being suppressed at 1170. So it could already be more valuable in terms of an exchange right now. So instead of rving right now, they will print a smaller denom and theeennn rv. So because all the third world broke failing economies are doing it, iraq will too. Its dishonest and shady. For the citizen and investor. They had better never call us evil western infidels again.

Okayyyyy........

[jg167]

It is dishonest. Everybody and their mother knows the dinar is intentionally being suppressed at 1170. So it could already be more valuable in terms of an exchange right now.

I don't know this. If you look at the ratio of GDP to M2 then their exchange rate is about right for a $65B GDP and 60T dinars. Going forward GDP will rise, so if M2 rises more slowly then ongoing RVs seem likely.

So instead of rving right now, they will print a smaller denom and theeennn rv.

But how is this dishonest? So what if they print smaller denons, as long as its still in IQD I don't see how that changes anything. I don't see why they are doing it either, but that is a different issue. If the RV or RD they will do it on the timetable that is best for them.

So because all the third world broke failing economies are doing it, iraq will too. Its dishonest and shady. For the citizen and investor. They had better never call us evil western infidels again.

I don't know what "it" you are speaking of, but I think we can count on Iraq to do what is best for Iraq and if that does not meet your expectations of vast wealth from a modest investment why is that anything but a false expectation by you (and me and all of us here)?

[Realdinar]

I don't know this. If you look at the ratio of GDP to M2 then their exchange rate is about right for a $65B GDP and 60T dinars. Going forward GDP will rise, so if M2 rises more slowly then ongoing RVs seem likely.

But how is this dishonest? So what if they print smaller denons, as long as its still in IQD I don't see how that changes anything. I don't see why they are doing it either, but that is a different issue. If the RV or RD they will do it on the timetable that is best for them.

I don't know what "it" you are speaking of, but I think we can count on Iraq to do what is best for Iraq and if that does not meet your expectations of vast wealth from a modest investment why is that anything but a false expectation by you (and me and all of us here)?

Ok "it" is this. printing one type of currency with zeros. saying it is worth 1170. Instead of rving, you print another currency with no zeros. Then you rv. Why? So you dont have to pay up? It shocks me how you arent amazed at this, with examples of " its cool, all the cool third world failing broke economies are doing it".... Say the usa did this, would you just shrug your shoulders?

Okayyyyy........

Its really not if you really believe your own prediction.

[BlueOrchid919]

Ok "it" is this. printing one type of currency with zeros. saying it is worth 1170. Instead of rving, you print another currency with no zeros. Then you rv. Why? So you dont have to pay up? It shocks me how you arent amazed at this, with examples of " its cool, all the cool third world failing broke economies are doing it".... Say the usa did this, would you just shrug your shoulders?

Its really not if you really believe your own prediction.

I'm not predicting anything. I'm just following the news. I've also learned what a redenomination is and why it happens. Now I wait for more news.

[HopefulTxn]

It is dishonest. Everybody and their mother knows the dinar is intentionally being suppressed at 1170. So it could already be more valuable in terms of an exchange right now. So instead of rving right now, they will print a smaller denom and theeennn rv. So because all the third world broke failing economies are doing it, iraq will too. Its dishonest and shady. For the citizen and investor. They had better never call us evil western infidels again.

How are they being dishonest or shady? I have seen articles like THIS ONE from 2008 where Shabibi has stated his intent to rebase the dinar and states 25,000 dinar would equal 25 new dinar. There are numerous articles stating the exact same thing, except many people want to call them smoke and claim Iraq cannot or will not do it. Their citizens nor foreign investors lose a dime in the process. The only people that stand to lose are those of us that speculated on their currency.

Given the Article 14 status they are in with the IMF, which limits claiming some 'non-liquid' assets owned by the CBI, but I doubt that those 'non-liquid' assets would add much to the value of the dinar considering the current levels of circulation that the CBI and MoF keep stating.