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RV/RD as some would post it


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So I'm over at my father's tonight, and he's all excited about the Dinar re-valuation. After a good 10 minutes of arguing he showed me this user group and another one at another site which seems to compile posts as proof of his upcoming good fortune. I'm not here to bash anyone, but I'm just trying to understand. My old man is 70 and can barely turn on a PC, so I'm afraid that any link he clicks or page he hits is taken as gospel--no offense to any material presented within this board.

Iraq will re-valuate/denominate their currency, that's a fact. They have to to participate within the global economy. but it will in mo means appreciate 3000x overnight. It's just not possible and there is no precedent for this. My father keeps referencing the Kuwaiti dinar, but I assure you that new bills were printed to replace the ones stolen by the Iraqi regime, and they were re-denominated at the same time. Kuwaiti citizens were given a few months to exchange their currency. If a Kuwaiti citizen has enough currency in their pocket to buy a loaf of bread before the re-valuation/denomination, they had the same buying power after. I believe Kuwait then proceeded via a managed float, allowing some band of change per month (3-4%). this is typical within the currency markets and is what will happen in Iraq.

I asked my father to imagine what would happen if Iraqi currency suddenly rose in value 3000x overnight. My father keeps referencing the Iraqi bank wanting to re-valuate to reach their pre-war price of $3.22 (I have no clue if this is accurate, it what he keeps saying). So 1170 IQD : 1 USD ---> 1 IQD : 3.22 USD. That's a 3767x rise in the value of the IQD. Seriously? Some poor guy in the streets of Iraq goes to bed with 10,000 IQD ($8.50 USD) and wakes up with the equivalent of $32,020 USD? Can you imagine the chaos?

What of some Iraqi merchant selling widgets for 1,000 IQD. Widgets that cost him good money to produce would be sold at -3,767x of the cost to make them (referencing purchasing power here, follow it back through the economic chain). The entire country would have to change their pricing simultaneously with the increased purchasing power of the public. It just can't happen by a re-valuation of the same currency. Imagine the people who didn't get the message, paying 3,767x more or less for an item. Some poor goat herder would be mugged his first trip to town. Or his tent raided in the night for his stash of high denom dinar. Whatever happens to the IQD, the purchasing power of the Iraqi people will be relatively the same pre and post re-valuation/denomination. If you could barely buy a loaf of bread before, you can still only barely buy one after.

What Iraq will be able to do is introduce re-denominated bills in circulation for some time with the higher denomination bills, eventually removing the higher denominations from circulation. The lower denom bills will be equivalent to the higher ones, i.e. 10 IQD = 10,000 IQD, and so on. At some point, the lower denoms will be the standard of trade in-country. This re-denomination also serves as a re-valuation. Iraq may also attempt to manipulate or further re-valuate the physical price of the currency, but this is severely limited by the worldwide market makers. Generally a managed float is assessed, where the currency may trade in a limited band of value month to month. Hopefully, for all you that are invested, it appreciates higher each month to come, up towards the pre-war values within the next decade.

This is still an investment, but no one in the right mind should believe that $1,000 USD will become $3.7 million overnight. Even if that was possible there is no liquidity in the IQD market to exchange back into USD. Experienced currency traders are looking for the upper end of the float after RV and availability of contracts, hopefully 20% APR or more--which is a damn good place to put a portion of your investment portfolio. And professional traders don't buy physical currency from the internet at 40% premium and walk it to an exchange counter either, but currency futures contracts via the ForEx.

Is anyone on the same page here? I would like to direct my father to some realistic threads somewhere! He certainly doesn't want to hear it from me :(

JBD

Edited by JBD
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Actually, your Dad has a better understanding of this investment than you. Perhaps you can learn by listening to him. Alternatively, there are thousands of threads you can read on this site that will explain how this works.

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What you describe is certainly common sense, but what is going on with Iraq isnt common at all.

Iraq inst going through hyperinflation and their inflation has been around 5% since 2008. Countries redenominate when they have been in hyperinflation along with other senarios. Iraq is NOT in these redenominate senarios.

I will make just one other comment and a simple one at that........If all those people in Iraq lost their wealth overnight when the dinar rate dropped, what makes you think it cant go right back up to reimburse them?

Edited by Spoolin
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JBD there is nothing wrong with your point of view. I will admit it won't be a popular on on these boards. You get no argument from me.

For me there are 4 possibilities:

LOP

LOP/RV

RV/Appreciation

RV

1. LOP - they will hurt themselves and the citizens of iraq will be dissapointed. A straight LOP does nothing and changes nothing other than how their currency looks to the avg Iraqi Citizen. They will still be using dollars...Investor confidence tarnished...what about that private sector they need?? hmm...

2. LOP/RV - small denoms, increased purchasing power - (instant solution to cutting the fat off of the M2 and of course bye bye to our millions...not what we want but...better than nothing i guess if they RV high and they could easily support a much higher exchange rate depending on monetary policy they choose to implement...fractional reserve banking?)

3. RV/Appreciation - a bump in the exchange rate and allowed to increase as they increase oil export/private sector (not what some are expecting...don't know if the country will have the patience to deal with that. definitely take some time, would have to include decreasing their M2 - too much currency support)

4. RV - overnight changing the currency exchange rate to anything like we are dreaming. Like you JBD I also believe this would have a negative impact on their society as it would cause calamity and people would die over the sudden change in value. (despite this, it still within the realm of possibility i suppose - but for that to happen everything that's ever happened and all that we know goes right out the window; even some wild conspiracies begin to look truthful....)

So what to believe? I'm somewhere between 2 and 3 and I accept that there could be another possibility that I didn't think or have forgotten about.

Edited by quadraph0nic
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So I'm over at my father's tonight, and he's all excited about the Dinar re-valuation. After a good 10 minutes of arguing he showed me this user group and another one at another site which seems to compile posts as proof of his upcoming good fortune. I'm not here to bash anyone, but I'm just trying to understand. My old man is 70 and can barely turn on a PC, so I'm afraid that any link he clicks or page he hits is taken as gospel--no offense to any material presented within this board.

Iraq will re-valuate/denominate their currency, that's a fact. They have to to participate within the global economy. but it will in mo means appreciate 3000x overnight. It's just not possible and there is no precedent for this. My father keeps referencing the Kuwaiti dinar, but I assure you that new bills were printed to replace the ones stolen by the Iraqi regime, and they were re-denominated at the same time. Kuwaiti citizens were given a few months to exchange their currency. If a Kuwaiti citizen has enough currency in their pocket to buy a loaf of bread before the re-valuation/denomination, they had the same buying power after. I believe Kuwait then proceeded via a managed float, allowing some band of change per month (3-4%). this is typical within the currency markets and is what will happen in Iraq.

I asked my father to imagine what would happen if Iraqi currency suddenly rose in value 3000x overnight. My father keeps referencing the Iraqi bank wanting to re-valuate to reach their pre-war price of $3.22 (I have no clue if this is accurate, it what he keeps saying). So 1170 IQD : 1 USD ---> 1 IQD : 3.22 USD. That's a 3767x rise in the value of the IQD. Seriously? Some poor guy in the streets of Iraq goes to bed with 10,000 IQD ($8.50 USD) and wakes up with the equivalent of $32,020 USD? Can you imagine the chaos?

What of some Iraqi merchant selling widgets for 1,000 IQD. Widgets that cost him good money to produce would be sold at -3,767x of the cost to make them (referencing purchasing power here, follow it back through the economic chain). The entire country would have to change their pricing simultaneously with the increased purchasing power of the public. It just can't happen by a re-valuation of the same currency. Imagine the people who didn't get the message, paying 3,767x more or less for an item. Some poor goat herder would be mugged his first trip to town. Or his tent raided in the night for his stash of high denom dinar. Whatever happens to the IQD, the purchasing power of the Iraqi people will be relatively the same pre and post re-valuation/denomination. If you could barely buy a loaf of bread before, you can still only barely buy one after.

What Iraq will be able to do is introduce re-denominated bills in circulation for some time with the higher denomination bills, eventually removing the higher denominations from circulation. The lower denom bills will be equivalent to the higher ones, i.e. 10 IQD = 10,000 IQD, and so on. At some point, the lower denoms will be the standard of trade in-country. This re-denomination also serves as a re-valuation. Iraq may also attempt to manipulate or further re-valuate the physical price of the currency, but this is severely limited by the worldwide market makers. Generally a managed float is assessed, where the currency may trade in a limited band of value month to month. Hopefully, for all you that are invested, it appreciates higher each month to come, up towards the pre-war values within the next decade.

This is still an investment, but no one in the right mind should believe that $1,000 USD will become $3.7 million overnight. Even if that was possible there is no liquidity in the IQD market to exchange back into USD. Experienced currency traders are looking for the upper end of the float after RV and availability of contracts, hopefully 20% APR or more--which is a damn good place to put a portion of your investment portfolio. And professional traders don't buy physical currency from the internet at 40% premium and walk it to an exchange counter either, but currency futures contracts via the ForEx.

Is anyone on the same page here? I would like to direct my father to some realistic threads somewhere! He certainly doesn't want to hear it from me :(

JBD

Great post JBD.

Sadly this is the pin to the naive and ill informeds baloon.

It would scare you if you could poll the expectations of alot of members scouring this site.

As predictable as the sunrise you have received negs already since you post anything that is not pumper friendly.

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i understand and wont neg you or bash you for it but.. we dont know how this will play out you trying to figure it out will make you go insane the world is in turmoil lets be honest anything can happen and i ean anything especially involving currency right now. Dollar is gonna be worth nothing soon so i do think a straight Rv is in the works here now i dont know the rate but who the hell knows now adays.

Edited by easyrider
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What you describe is certainly common sense, but what is going on with Iraq isnt common at all.

Iraq inst going through hyperinflation and their inflation has been around 5% since 2008. Countries redenominate when they have been in hyperinflation along with other senarios. Iraq is NOT in these redenominate senarios.

I will make just one other comment and a simple one at that........If all those people in Iraq lost their wealth overnight when the dinar rate dropped, what makes you think it cant go right back up to reimburse them?

Wow! You have a wealth of twisted mis-information to share today. You only made two points, and they are both false.

1. If you had ever studied redenominations instead of just repeating false information you read in forums that you wish were true, you would know that the many redenominations that achieved their goals happen after hyperinflation has ended and inflation stabilized at normal rates. That is exactly Iraq's situation today.

2. The Iraqi people did not lose "their wealth overnight when the dinar rate dropped". The value of the dinar dropped over a period of decades which included a few wars, long periods of hyperinflation and over 20 years of economic sanctions.

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So I'm over at my father's tonight, and he's all excited about the Dinar re-valuation. After a good 10 minutes of arguing he showed me this user group and another one at another site which seems to compile posts as proof of his upcoming good fortune. I'm not here to bash anyone, but I'm just trying to understand. My old man is 70 and can barely turn on a PC, so I'm afraid that any link he clicks or page he hits is taken as gospel--no offense to any material presented within this board.

Iraq will re-valuate/denominate their currency, that's a fact. They have to to participate within the global economy. but it will in mo means appreciate 3000x overnight. It's just not possible and there is no precedent for this. My father keeps referencing the Kuwaiti dinar, but I assure you that new bills were printed to replace the ones stolen by the Iraqi regime, and they were re-denominated at the same time. Kuwaiti citizens were given a few months to exchange their currency. If a Kuwaiti citizen has enough currency in their pocket to buy a loaf of bread before the re-valuation/denomination, they had the same buying power after. I believe Kuwait then proceeded via a managed float, allowing some band of change per month (3-4%). this is typical within the currency markets and is what will happen in Iraq.

I asked my father to imagine what would happen if Iraqi currency suddenly rose in value 3000x overnight. My father keeps referencing the Iraqi bank wanting to re-valuate to reach their pre-war price of $3.22 (I have no clue if this is accurate, it what he keeps saying). So 1170 IQD : 1 USD ---> 1 IQD : 3.22 USD. That's a 3767x rise in the value of the IQD. Seriously? Some poor guy in the streets of Iraq goes to bed with 10,000 IQD ($8.50 USD) and wakes up with the equivalent of $32,020 USD? Can you imagine the chaos?

What of some Iraqi merchant selling widgets for 1,000 IQD. Widgets that cost him good money to produce would be sold at -3,767x of the cost to make them (referencing purchasing power here, follow it back through the economic chain). The entire country would have to change their pricing simultaneously with the increased purchasing power of the public. It just can't happen by a re-valuation of the same currency. Imagine the people who didn't get the message, paying 3,767x more or less for an item. Some poor goat herder would be mugged his first trip to town. Or his tent raided in the night for his stash of high denom dinar. Whatever happens to the IQD, the purchasing power of the Iraqi people will be relatively the same pre and post re-valuation/denomination. If you could barely buy a loaf of bread before, you can still only barely buy one after.

What Iraq will be able to do is introduce re-denominated bills in circulation for some time with the higher denomination bills, eventually removing the higher denominations from circulation. The lower denom bills will be equivalent to the higher ones, i.e. 10 IQD = 10,000 IQD, and so on. At some point, the lower denoms will be the standard of trade in-country. This re-denomination also serves as a re-valuation. Iraq may also attempt to manipulate or further re-valuate the physical price of the currency, but this is severely limited by the worldwide market makers. Generally a managed float is assessed, where the currency may trade in a limited band of value month to month. Hopefully, for all you that are invested, it appreciates higher each month to come, up towards the pre-war values within the next decade.

This is still an investment, but no one in the right mind should believe that $1,000 USD will become $3.7 million overnight. Even if that was possible there is no liquidity in the IQD market to exchange back into USD. Experienced currency traders are looking for the upper end of the float after RV and availability of contracts, hopefully 20% APR or more--which is a damn good place to put a portion of your investment portfolio. And professional traders don't buy physical currency from the internet at 40% premium and walk it to an exchange counter either, but currency futures contracts via the ForEx.

Is anyone on the same page here? I would like to direct my father to some realistic threads somewhere! He certainly doesn't want to hear it from me sad.gif

JBD

There are alot of people on these forums with their heads stuck up in the clouds.....you have a grounded and solid view on the matter and you are right in your thinking....some people no matter what the facts are will never admit to themselves that they might not be a millionare overnight because of which the manner they were introduced to this investment......Me and a group of others here are on the same page as you.....so dont fret, you will realize and pick up on which ones are more realistic in the matter and understand the concepts you have presented.....the other percentage of people will just bash you and tell you that you have no idea what your talking about and those are the ones who have been listening to the BS so long they cant grasp any other ideas no matter how true and factual they are......good post bro!!

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JBD, first let me say you seem very sincere in your post and in your efforts to learn more about what your dad has gotten into. THATS A GOOD THING. I wish to also apologize to you on behalf of DV as some of our users have become very suspicious and cynical over the years PLEASE do not let this formulate your opinion of DV and all it's members. I gave you a +1 to help cancel out the negative ratings you have received for just walking in the door let alone making your first post here, again we are not all like this and this is a great community of people who are seriously invested in the Iraqi Dinar. PLEASE take the time to peruse the forums and get to know a few of us before you make a damming decision about us all. Welcome to DV and again my apologies for the some of the negative folks in here and their selfish negative ratings you have been given. I hope you find what it is your looking for here and that some of these block heads will change their course when dealing with new people. Peace.

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What you describe is certainly common sense, but what is going on with Iraq isnt common at all.

Iraq inst going through hyperinflation and their inflation has been around 5% since 2008. Countries redenominate when they have been in hyperinflation along with other senarios. Iraq is NOT in these redenominate senarios.

I will make just one other comment and a simple one at that........If all those people in Iraq lost their wealth overnight when the dinar rate dropped, what makes you think it cant go right back up to reimburse them?

When did Iraqi's lose their wealth 'overnight'? The value of the dinar was not $3.22 one day and 1170 to $1 the next... The actual value of the dinar was on a slide since the 80's due to the Iran-Iraq war and Saddams high level of spending on their war effort (spending the foreign currency reserve, borrowing from Saudi Arabia & Kuwait, etc). Just because the CBI, under Saddam, never changed the 'official rate' after 1982, does not mean it held that value the entire time. Simply look at the 1991-2003 financials from the CBI, towards the bottom look at the section for 'Pricing'. That will give you an idea of the slide in value. In 1991 it was 10 dinar to the $1, 21 dinar in 1992, 74 in 1993, etc... Their currency lost its value over a long period of time, not 'overnight' as was suggested.

Also, redenominations are not solely done DURING periods of high inflation... That is a misconception put out there by chat room gossip... If you research redenominations, you will notice that while many use redenominations as a 'patch' during high/hyper inflation periods - they have to keep doing it because redenomination does not address the problem, it simply addresses one result. If a country waits until AFTER they have dealt with the inflationary problems through monetary policies and programs, they are much likelier to only have to perform a redenomination once...

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When did Iraqi's lose their wealth 'overnight'? The value of the dinar was not $3.22 one day and 1170 to $1 the next... The actual value of the dinar was on a slide since the 80's due to the Iran-Iraq war and Saddams high level of spending on their war effort (spending the foreign currency reserve, borrowing from Saudi Arabia & Kuwait, etc). Just because the CBI, under Saddam, never changed the 'official rate' after 1982, does not mean it held that value the entire time. Simply look at the 1991-2003 financials from the CBI, towards the bottom look at the section for 'Pricing'. That will give you an idea of the slide in value. In 1991 it was 10 dinar to the $1, 21 dinar in 1992, 74 in 1993, etc... Their currency lost its value over a long period of time, not 'overnight' as was suggested.

Also, redenominations are not solely done DURING periods of high inflation... That is a misconception put out there by chat room gossip... If you research redenominations, you will notice that while many use redenominations as a 'patch' during high/hyper inflation periods - they have to keep doing it because redenomination does not address the problem, it simply addresses one result. If a country waits until AFTER they have dealt with the inflationary problems through monetary policies and programs, they are much likelier to only have to perform a redenomination once...

This needs to be a post by itself in the forums......EVERYONE should read this and understand what your talking about because there are alot of misconceptions out there....and this might help straighten some of those out!! Good reply bro! STAY THIRSTY!!

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There are so many ways to look at this investment and so many opinions that it makes it difficult to have a conversation about it. The truth is that we won't know until it ends. Notice that many are Certain of their opinions with little ability to hear anothers point of view sometimes. That is not to say that there is not great conversation, because there is a lot of great interaction when we can keep our heads around others having their own opinion.

It is a great site, but like everything there are some that are stuck in one and only one way it can be. If your father can read some of the information other than what he is certain is true and understand that some of the sites that only have one way of thinking may not be accurate or the best way to think about how this investment will end up, then he will be able to learn a lot here.

I have learned so much here and have not had my head up in the clouds as was pointed out as a way that some may be by keep. If I wanted just one way of thinking and an unrealistic one, I would not be here. The people here will tell you how it is and not let anyone say crazy outlandish things that are just not close to true. Now there is the Rumors section that I find to be of great entertainment, but don't have him put to much faith there as you will soon see, the "RV is happening" every week. It's just fun reading.

Have fun on the Best Site Out there,

r2d2

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There are alot of people on these forums with their heads stuck up in the clouds.....you have a grounded and solid view on the matter and you are right in your thinking....some people no matter what the facts are will never admit to themselves that they might not be a millionare overnight because of which the manner they were introduced to this investment......Me and a group of others here are on the same page as you.....so dont fret, you will realize and pick up on which ones are more realistic in the matter and understand the concepts you have presented.....the other percentage of people will just bash you and tell you that you have no idea what your talking about and those are the ones who have been listening to the BS so long they cant grasp any other ideas no matter how true and factual they are......good post bro!!

Thanks keep, AND JBD for your thoughts. :)

JBD, I apologize for the manner in which some love to

belittle and humiliate a post such as yours. Do not take it

personally. The problem that your dad and many here at DV

have with the contents of your post, is that it does NOT agree

with the fantasy that has been preached about this for so many

years. Also, Iraq cannot be compared to Kuwait. I do not understand

how that ever got started other than to PUMP.

What you wrote is actually factual information and agreeing with

historical data. Why expect anything different with Iraq? Because

someone just screams "this cannot happen!", is the same mentality

that also has said how many times over the years that Iraq "HAD to RV by a certain date".

So much information that has been taken as "gospel" over the years is now

accepted as fact, when it is clear it is not at all "fact". It has been lies, and sadly

your father has been yet another victim of these liars and frauds. It is horrible and

unfortunate and you can see how much these 'gurus' and liars influence everyones

thinking and how it has literally polluted the entire investment.

We ALL hope for the best, but I am sorry JBD that some love to jump in and belittle

a poster because it is not what they want to hear. Then they base their reasoning on

years worth of rumors as if it is fact. Look at history and what has already been stated by the

CBI via Gov. Shabibi...you are correct JBD in your thinking, it is the likely scenario based upon

factual history.

Please try gently to at least help your father to understand, this may *not* at all turn out as

he has been told...this is the main reason why I detest those LIES...it manipulates

folks such as your dad AND all of us to a certain extent, until one simply shuts out all the noise

and realizes that history reveals the likely outcome. Is it what we want??? Of course it isn't, but it

IS the likely scenario, and no matter how people will respond with comments like, "Iraq CANNOT

do this or that, etc...." Well, yes they can and sadly, this reality is too much for many to bear because they

bought into this and their whole lives are depending upon this sudden windfall of millions...it is a setup for

tragic disappointment and its roots start at the people who from day 1, have lied and twisted facts in

order to make this into something it NEVER was but a pure speculation. Now we are beginning to see

the unfortunate outcome of all the fruit of these liars and how they have hurt so many people. :(

All my best!

Jim

---

Edited by Jim1cor13
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JBD,

Welcome to the digital sandbox.

For a first post, you have a pragmatic view of what the points of debate are.

It boils down to if you want to believe that you will benefit from an economy that is made stronger after removing the artifacts of inflation by being able to cash in using the notes that still represent the inflation.

Many here will only be able to see the possibilities that will benefit them the most.

You have a very balanced view...

There are dynamics at play here, that may defy logic, and are reported to have been put into play by the previous administration to allow investors to play both ends against the middle. I hope they are right.

However, if the more likely reality prevails, while the Dinar may not immediately make millionaires of investors, it is doubtful that money will be lost in a denomination situation. If the Iraqi government does't destroy itself in the coming years, even under the worst situation, 300% plus return on investment should be guaranteed ...

As in any other endeavor, pray for the best, but plan for the worst...

Be ready to purchase his investment if his dreams don't come out as he planned. It is a good investment, if you can afford to do without the funds invested, and are willing to wait for returns...

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Iraq will re-valuate/denominate their currency, that's a fact.

No. That's not a fact. Far from it! That is an opinion, expectation or hope that many people have. Something that has not occurred cannot possibly be a fact. Learn the proper use of terminology and then we can discuss facts.

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No. That's not a fact. Far from it! That is an opinion, expectation or hope that many people have. Something that has not occurred cannot possibly be a fact. Learn the proper use of terminology and then we can discuss facts.

Networth go back to school

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Well, I read somewhere just the other day that Canada's dollar is at .95 to ours. I am by no way trying to state HARD FACTS, but I remember less than 10 years ago when we would cross the border we would get somewhere like $1.60 Canadian to every US $1 we traded in.

I know that is just fluctuation and isn't the same thing as Iraq.

What I DO KNOW (at least in my mind) LOL is that Iraq has been ruled by a tyrant for over 20 years and have not had the chance to grow and share their abundance of natural resources with the world. Even when they did, Hussain took all of the money.

I have said it before, but I still believe it now. I consider Iraq a company that just opened it's doors and we have bought 'stock' in Iraq at PRE-IPO prices.

Now their 'product' is their economy and being a world trader and hopefully a world leader in resources, travel and other types of trade for many years to come.

Once their money is trade-able, many if us will cash our 'stocks' out at the new rate once they have figured it out and others will buy in hoping of their continued sucess.

Do i think I'll make a million from a thousand? Nope, but I do think I will make a very nice return on my investment. Honestly, Iraq has nowhere else to go but UP.

The tyrant had them down so long, once they see economic good times I am hoping the sky's the limit. I will also be investing in their stock market once I learn a bit more about it. I read where the banking sector could bring great returns once they get in full swing.

I've rambled enough

buds

chuck

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Actually, your Dad has a better understanding of this investment than you. Perhaps you can learn by listening to him. Alternatively, there are thousands of threads you can read on this site that will explain how this works.

And unfortunately the vast majority of those threads are lined with feel good information. Devising a way to make the illogical somehow seem logical.Many many beliefs to how this thing is going to work were founded on someones theory plugged in to make this or that a possibility.Just as you may read theories from average joes on how to turn the shape that our nation is currently in around that can be found on different forums.Things may sound fool proof and very educated statements are pieced together to form what appears to be fundamentaly sound.But the bottom line is... just because it sounds good,does not mean that it can or will happen.In our case it is simply wishful thinking to believe that since it was once $3+ that it has to be lifted to anywhere near that overnite or at all for that matter.It wasn't just poof and the value fell overnite,there were reasons for it.Just as there are reasons today why it can't simply be reinstated to it's former glory. Our government has gradually put our country into quite a financial mess that seems nearly impossible to get out of-just as Saddam put Iraq into quite a financial mess that is not such a quick fix as many dream to believe. Things take time to develop.Iraq will have to continue crawling before it can walk. And yes,I do believe that an RD and rise is very possible. However, I wouldn't be here if I didn't also believe that a .10-.15 cent RV weren't a possibility as well.You have to look at both very real and equal possibilities and not just navigate your way through the forum with blinders on while attempting to educate yourself on your investment.

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And unfortunately the vast majority of those threads are lined with feel good information. Devising a way to make the illogical somehow seem logical.Many many beliefs to how this thing is going to work were founded on someones theory plugged in to make this or that a possibility.Just as you may read theories from average joes on how to turn the shape that our nation is currently in around that can be found on different forums.Things may sound fool proof and very educated statements are pieced together to form what appears to be fundamentaly sound.But the bottom line is... just because it sounds good,does not mean that it can or will happen.In our case it is simply wishful thinking to believe that since it was once $3+ that it has to be lifted to anywhere near that overnite or at all for that matter.It wasn't just poof and the value fell overnite,there were reasons for it.Just as there are reasons today why it can't simply be reinstated to it's former glory. Our government has gradually put our country into quite a financial mess that seems nearly impossible to get out of-just as Saddam put Iraq into quite a financial mess that is not such a quick fix as many dream to believe. Things take time to develop.Iraq will have to continue crawling before it can walk. And yes,I do believe that an RD and rise is very possible. However, I wouldn't be here if I didn't also believe that a .10-.15 cent RV weren't a possibility as well.You have to look at both very real and equal possibilities and not just navigate your way through the forum with blinders on while attempting to educate yourself on your investment.

Speaking of feel good information, you said "Our government has gradually put our country into quite a financial mess that seems nearly impossible to get out of-just as Saddam put Iraq into quite a financial mess that is not such a quick fix as many dream to believe." The fact is it is easy to lay blame on the government for our situation, but, the blame ultimately belongs with every US citizen, since we elected the government and allowed them to create the financial mess. It is time for Americans to start owning our failure instead of looking for the scape goat.

Edited by speculatorsRIDE
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Speaking of feel good information, you said "Our government has gradually put our country into quite a financial mess that seems nearly impossible to get out of-just as Saddam put Iraq into quite a financial mess that is not such a quick fix as many dream to believe." The fact is it is easy to lay blame on the government for our situation, but, the blame ultimately belongs with every US citizen, since we elected the government and allowed them to create the financial mess. It is time for Americans to start owning our failure instead of looking for the scape goat.

Actually, I had it worded as "we have put ourselves into a financial mess" before changing.So preaching to the choir my friend.

Edited by skepticaldinar
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Actually, I had it worded as "we have put ourselves into a financial mess" before changing.So preaching to the choir my friend.

Oops my bad. Reiterating the point is a good thing anyway. Time folks wake up and claim some responsibility for their actions or in-actions as the case may be.

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