Addressing some myths....

[Mongo]

I think the word here is..... BALANCE...... Keepm keeps the teeter totter in balance. Common sense stays away from one extreme to the other. My comfort zone loves balance. I like seeing yeng and yang together, X's and O's,...+ and - .......Do I think either side is right?..................Now if I did..........then I would be out of balance

[umbertino]

Quote

I just found out I have a baby on the way

End Quote

Congrats.

Well done Keep. Level headed and analytical as usual. Some people are finally beginning to see the reality.

I am glad that on this Forum we have Folks like yourself Legolas and Keep contributing to us staying healthily grounded....It's good for our brains.

[mentalmagic]

Space Cowboy? You mean frank from KTFM? lol

Thank you!! At least a few people like what I bring to the table!! Even if it isent RV's every monday at 6 dollars!

Keep, you are one of the most intelligent posters on this site. Here's my comments below on this investment.

Think about this for a moment. If the Dinar revalued from 1/10th of a penny up to $3, this would represent a 300,000% gain in value. In the history of the world, there

has never been a 300,000% gain on any investment that I have heard of. I think it's time to get real here. If you look at all the numbers published by Iraq news agency and the CBI, I think it is fair to estimate a RV around .04 cents per dinar. That is a tremenous gain starting at 1/10th of a penny to 4 cents. In other words, you buy 1 million dinars for $1000 and sell them back after the RV for $40,000. Can anyone complain about that return? This is realistic based on current oil production and currency in circulation. Let's get real people. No way in hell we will see a 300,000% gain in this currency overnight!

[jooced]

I could not pull up your spread sheet so I am just going to adress a couple of questions/concerns that I have. I have been in this investment since 2004 and have heard these same arguments since then. This 24 trillion dinar in circualtion is what I am concerned about, lets go back to 2003 when the first dinar was exchanged for the Saddam Dinar....

The original order of 2 billion notes filled more than twenty-five 747 airplanes...

Now I am not real good at math....but if the orginal amount was 2 billion and it took them several months to print and filled 25 747's.....how the H*LL did they get to 27 trillion???? There would have to be 747's landing day and night and they would have had to been printing NON-STOP!!! We have seen no evidence of this and with all the "boots-on-the-ground" don't you think someone would have mentioned this??? All I am trying to say is I do not beleive the M1, M2 are being reported accurately or we are mis-interpeting them . I do not beleive we will see anywhere close to a $3.00 RV, but I also do not beleive they will have to LOP for them to add value to the IQD. All this information is availble on the web if you think I am making it up....

Think very logically about what you said here.....TWO BILLION NOTES.... Now, of those two billion notes, how many were denominated at 25K, 10K, 5K, etc........What would two billion times 25,000 equate to?

[DinarMillionaire]

To ignore the Facts, does not Change the facts.

[Roadrunner]

Keep I want to thank you for the contributions you make to the forum. If we are all on the same page, discussions would get real boring after a while. I don’t always agree with your interpretations of the facts. In truth, I could go so far as to say that I rarely agree with them. But regardless of that, I appreciate the fact that you do the research which many of us have neither the time nor the inclination to do. And we need someone like you to keep us grounded occasionally. Thanks again.

Roadrunner

[DinarMillionaire]

Think very logically about what you said here.....TWO BILLION NOTES.... Now, of those two billion notes, how many were denominated at 25K, 10K, 5K, etc........What would two billion times 25,000 equate to?

I think, if this is a logical answer..."2 billion notes", just an example now...1/3 in 25K notes, 1/3 in 10K notes, 1/3 in 5K notes. But to come up with the say 24 Trillion it may be 1/4 25K notes, 1/4 in 10K notes and 1/2 in 5K notes, what ever it takes to divey it up to equal the 24 Trillion. But it could still be just 2 billion NOTES/bills. Hope this makes sense.

Edited April 12, 2011 by DinarMillionaire

[DEAMAN]

keepmwlknfny ,

Very logical and Frank (whoops sorry wrong word) no BS post. Thank you very much for putting it out like it is.

[bopll]

Good post Keep.I have really been surprised how you were crucified lately when you took the opinion that we would have a lower cash in value than all the pumpers were claiming.Your ideas were founded with good factual reasoning. The pumpers were just throwing out huge numbers to satisfy the masses. I think people critize you because they want the RV so high so quick that any other opinion is plain blasphemy.I am glad there are a few on this site that still employ good deductive reasoning.

[RonSkilbeck]

I appreciate the effort - I'm a numbers guy! I for one am glad to have you as a part of the DV community. Keep it going! (+1) and once again, THANKS!

[keepmwlknfny]

Other than the people who PUMP or give out repetitive bad dates and taimes of an RV with Rates... The rest is all of us (I would hope) trying to help one another.

SO my fellow dinarian holder, you are doing a great service if even sometimes we are or aren't in agreement. I think some of us want to KEEP a good or more inflated idea of how this will go. In truth I can include myself in this group at times... Why? Because it is fun to fream of a much nicer outcome than less. Yet, as the saying some times goes, reality can suck. LOL KEEP your head up brother.

As for LOP... Ohhh I wont ruin this little post with once again explaining that it wont happen due to the definition and use of the term (LOSS OF PROFIT)! Nope. I am so tired of the term.

Have a great day and thanks for the intelligent insight.

please excuse my typos

edit isnt working... LOL

Lets talk about that bro.....Im curious as to why you do keep refering to it as a Loss Of Profit when a LOP in this case would be a neutral change.....lets bring it out for discussion....I think alot of people could chime in on this one.....

Keep, you are one of the most intelligent posters on this site. Here's my comments below on this investment.

Think about this for a moment. If the Dinar revalued from 1/10th of a penny up to $3, this would represent a 300,000% gain in value. In the history of the world, there

has never been a 300,000% gain on any investment that I have heard of. I think it's time to get real here. If you look at all the numbers published by Iraq news agency and the CBI, I think it is fair to estimate a RV around .04 cents per dinar. That is a tremenous gain starting at 1/10th of a penny to 4 cents. In other words, you buy 1 million dinars for $1000 and sell them back after the RV for $40,000. Can anyone complain about that return? This is realistic based on current oil production and currency in circulation. Let's get real people. No way in hell we will see a 300,000% gain in this currency overnight!

Anything is possible but I do agree that seeing a RV of even 4 cents would be great!! Hoping for more of course!!

[JohnnyZ]

Great post, Keepm; I read this when you put it out before. I know you have put alot of time in researching this investment. My thinking is along the way of TJmunson, I worked for big companies, military and been

kicked by life. I have learned the things we read and hear are sometimes slanted. When I was in the military, and had a top secret clearance, the docs I would read were not the same info in print and in the news.

The corporations had certain reports with numbers, but they weren't the ones to fully answer the request. Sorta like playing poker, never show your hand. Again, like you said anything can happen, its a speculation.

Thanks for all your hard work, and debates.

[bluejay]

Alot of you say well that just cant be you must be wrong Keep cause Shabibi stated he removed 70-80% of the 000's from circulation right?? Nope.....that was another twisted article taken by the gurus to mean that we were in good shape for the RV to happen at anytime.....What they did was take the money, and put it right back into the marketplace to promote growth in different sectors.....the money never went anywhere except for right back into the hands of the people.....they were not destroyed or taken out of circulation like the many gurus said over and over and over.....removing excess liquidity actually refers to ADDING to the already current amounts in circulation....it adds money...doesnt take it away......here is the link for that article.....

http://loughlininvest.com/blog/2010/12/1/iraq-announces-withdrawal-of-70-percent-of-the-excess-liquid.html

Great read Keep....Here is my question if Shabibi twisted one way do you think it's possible for him to twist another way....I get your point in the end they are not in the position come out with a IQD value more valuable then the US...But I'm of the opinion that the Iraqi government like any government can do whatever it wants whenever it wants to....Example what about them bordering Kuwait and Kuwait not wanting a lower due to them loosing there power in the world, couldn't that be influential...I just feel that it's more then the mechanics that will determine what happens....But I enjoyed your post very informative...

[djwebby]

Well written post KEEPM but at the end of the day it still relies on a big big assumption being true and I tend not to make assumptions.

[keepmwlknfny]

Well written post KEEPM but at the end of the day it still relies on a big big assumption being true and I tend not to make assumptions.

Whats this big assumption that Im relying on?? Am I missing something?

[DrSC]

Does anyone remember Kuwait? Didn't it RV all of a sudden without prior planning. Does anyone remember the exact amounts prior and after the RV. Seems to me I remember it being sustantial!ly changed. The Kuwait RV didn't have the exposure that Iraqi Dinar has had. A lot of people are involved in this because of the history of Kuwait.

Iraq people are very proud and I expect that they will want their money to be worth at least as mch as Kuwait's!!!!

[keepmwlknfny]

Does anyone remember Kuwait? Didn't it RV all of a sudden without prior planning. Does anyone remember the exact amounts prior and after the RV. Seems to me I remember it being sustantial!ly changed. The Kuwait RV didn't have the exposure that Iraqi Dinar has had. A lot of people are involved in this because of the history of Kuwait.

Iraq people are very proud and I expect that they will want their money to be worth at least as mch as Kuwait's!!!!

The Kuwait situation was much different then this one.....It didnt really revalue, it was just basically reinstated to its rate once things went back to normal so to speak.....from what I understand they also changed the currency, but they didnt have massive amounts of currency like in Iraqs situation....Like more then probly all of the world combined.....I have no doubt in my mind that YEARS down the road after the dinar starts to appreciate that it can regain its status that it once had like in the 80's, but to see it all of a sudden be reinstated to an amount that high just isent feasible at this point in time.....still much to be done....

Great read Keep....Here is my question if Shabibi twisted one way do you think it's possible for him to twist another way....I get your point in the end they are not in the position come out with a IQD value more valuable then the US...But I'm of the opinion that the Iraqi government like any government can do whatever it wants whenever it wants to....Example what about them bordering Kuwait and Kuwait not wanting a lower due to them loosing there power in the world, couldn't that be influential...I just feel that it's more then the mechanics that will determine what happens....But I enjoyed your post very informative...

Yes of course govts have their own control of what they do to a point.....but it has to be within reason.....there was one point in time when the 3 dollar rate wasent accepted globally....the international community thought it was artificially set too high and you couldnt get that 3+ dollar rate.....All Iraq is focused on and should be focused on is getting themselves back together......not worrying about having the highest valued currency in the world or being in competition with Kuwait....baby steps.....once they get their feet on the ground and get situated, then they can start worrying about those other things.....for now though I think its just straight up survival.....

[bluejay]

The Kuwait situation was much different then this one.....It didnt really revalue, it was just basically reinstated to its rate once things went back to normal so to speak.....from what I understand they also changed the currency, but they didnt have massive amounts of currency like in Iraqs situation....Like more then probly all of the world combined.....I have no doubt in my mind that YEARS down the road after the dinar starts to appreciate that it can regain its status that it once had like in the 80's, but to see it all of a sudden be reinstated to an amount that high just isent feasible at this point in time.....still much to be done....

Yes of course govts have their own control of what they do to a point.....but it has to be within reason.....there was one point in time when the 3 dollar rate wasent accepted globally....the international community thought it was artificially set too high and you couldnt get that 3+ dollar rate.....All Iraq is focused on and should be focused on is getting themselves back together......not worrying about having the highest valued currency in the world or being in competition with Kuwait....baby steps.....once they get their feet on the ground and get situated, then they can start worrying about those other things.....for now though I think its just straight up survival.....

Thanks for the reply Keep. I learn a great deal from your hard work....

[DrSC]

Keep,

You are applying Logic to this and I can't help after years of exposure to ME people, especially Iraqis they are ruled almost entirely by emotions and not Logic. It may be wishful thinking on a lot of people to want the RV to be very high and I believe there are many on here that lead their lives that way. The absolute rule to be driven by this is to buy what YOU CAN AFFORD AND DON'T MIND LOOSING. ANYMORE IS PLAIN RECKLESS!!

[keepmwlknfny]

Thanks for the reply Keep. I learn a great deal from your hard work....

No problem bro!! I like having everyone throwing out their ideas so we can discuss it all and maybe put a few things together!!

Keep,

You are applying Logic to this and I can't help after years of exposure to ME people, especially Iraqis they are ruled almost entirely by emotions and not Logic. It may be wishful thinking on a lot of people to want the RV to be very high and I believe there are many on here that lead their lives that way. The absolute rule to be driven by this is to buy what YOU CAN AFFORD AND DON'T MIND LOOSING. ANYMORE IS PLAIN RECKLESS!!

Well I agree they are driven hard by emotion....but you have to agree that emotion will only take them so far....if they didnt use some kind of logic during this time, they def wouldnt be in the position they are in now....they wouldnt have made it this long.....not to mention the internationally community will keep them in check if the emotional reactions and such are without reason and justifiable (sp)......but yea no one should be investing more then they can afford......they could break out in a civil war tommorow and Iran swoop in and get ahold of the masses....who knows.....

[djwebby]

http://loughlininves...ess-liquid.html

Just to throw a little bit of perspective on the amount of currency Iraq has in circulation......

the US has over 800 BILLION in circulation and its one of the most widely used currencies in the world......do you really think that little old Iraq with 30 million people and a currency that even if internationally recognized, isent going to be used worldwide (seeing as their is no purpose) at an RV of even 50 cents will have a higher physical currency value then almost the entire world put together and still have value??? Not likely......Dont bet your whole life on this RV....take steps to have a plan IF this doesnt turn out the way we all want it to.....dont make the situation worse on yourself by not being prepared for any and all outcomes of this investment.....I get a feeling some people are putting so much blind faith into this that if the worse case scenerio happens, they will be worse off then before they even got started with dinar.....ok Im done rambling.....lets have a good clean debate!!! NO LOW BLOWS!!! LETS GETR DONE!!!

Woops....there is the link to the CBI audit of its financial assets

Firstly, the article that you posted above has been translated into English via one of those online methods. From my understanding of Arabic, you cannot get the full meaning of something that is typed because the tones used in Arabic along with a limited number of words can lead to major misunderstandings of translated typed words. Unless you understand Arabic you cannot be sure what the full meaning of that article is.

Secondly, you have assumed that the logic and perspective you have used in the summary above is correct. You make the assumtion that 'little old Iraq', a country with 30 million people can never have currency in circulation which is more than the USA and the world. I say, based on what exactly........ Is it because your mind won't let you comprehend that this could happen. Has anything that the people in Iraq's government done so far made any logical sense?? Why does Kuwait of all the countries in the world have the strongest currency?? Why Kuwait?? What is the population of Kuwait and how big is their country?? Are they the biggest oil producers in the world?? Do they have the biggest number of resources in the world?? Which country is it that many people seem to be saying is the richest in the world in terms of resources?? There are many things in the world that happen but don't necessarily make logical sense.

By the way, has the Federal Reserve ever had a full disclosed audit?? How do you know the USA has 800 billion in circulation??

Have a think about those questions and answers.

Edited April 13, 2011 by djwebby

[djwebby]

Logic and perspective are subjective not factual.

If you doubt what I was saying about the article not being translated properly, why is it that there is no general concensus as to what removing the three zeros means. Is it a lop, removing the zeros from the rate, removing the higher bills from circulation or does it simply mean a reval or anything else. I would have thought by now that we would have understood that but hey, that's what happens when something isn't translated properly.

Edited April 13, 2011 by djwebby

[keepmwlknfny]

Logic and perspective are subjective not factual.

If you doubt what I was saying about the article not being translated properly, why is it that there is no general concensus as to what removing the three zeros means. Is it a lop, removing the zeros from the rate, removing the higher bills from circulation or does it simply mean a reval or anything else. I would have thought by now that we would have understood that but hey, that's what happens when something isn't translated properly.

That's simply beccause a lot of people refuse to believe its not going to make their dreams come true....never once has those articles mentioned removing zeros from the exchange rate only....NEVER....it always talks about the currency, taking the zeros off the bills and issuing a new currency....that's a redenomination plain and simple....never in the history of the world has a country declared its deleting the zeros and issuing a new currency to simply change the exchange rate and revalue single handedly to a large rate....deleting the zeros always has and always is a lop or redenomination....again, something people refuse to acknowledge since they know its bad, iraq also mentions many many times that they base this study off what turkey did when it removed the zeros....if u research what turkey did it was a redenomination once again....I don't know how many times one can turn a blind eye to all the evidence pointing to a redenomination and say it means they are only going to straight up RV.....

Now to the other article.....you can look back into the archives and find links directly to the arabic sites to get this article....everyone I have seen says excess liquidity.....if you look up what excess liquidity means you will see that its not taking currency physically out of circulation to be destroyed.....you say well how do you know it was translated right? Because the audits of the CBIs assests back up exactly what the article translates to....nothing was removed from circulation beccause there is still 24 trillion out there.....there is no evidence to support it was translated incorrectly, only to support that its dead on....

Anyone can look up how much currency is in circulation for many countries....its all ouut there to be found by anyone who wants to know....this is the information age remember? You just have to know where to look....and the numbers I posted are dead on....Iraq cannot have a larger money supply in physical currency then almost all the world combbined....its almost like a supply and demand type of thing...if you have too much of anything its not worth crap, which is where iraq is now....not to mention that there is no need for the dinar and its not like its going to be used internationally on a daily basis so there is no demand for it....there are other reasons why they can't rv high with such a large chunk of cash but I gotta get ready for work....do a little legwork and look up the amounts in circulation for most of the world and you tell me if it makes sense that iraq can suddenly have so much and it be worth more then the whole world hahahaha you know that when iraq had the three dollar rates they only had 25 BILLION in circulation? Big difference now bro

[djwebby]

That's simply beccause a lot of people refuse to believe its not going to make their dreams come true....never once has those articles mentioned removing zeros from the exchange rate only....NEVER....it always talks about the currency, taking the zeros off the bills and issuing a new currency....that's a redenomination plain and simple....never in the history of the world has a country declared its deleting the zeros and issuing a new currency to simply change the exchange rate and revalue single handedly to a large rate....deleting the zeros always has and always is a lop or redenomination....again, something people refuse to acknowledge since they know its bad, iraq also mentions many many times that they base this study off what turkey did when it removed the zeros....if u research what turkey did it was a redenomination once again....I don't know how many times one can turn a blind eye to all the evidence pointing to a redenomination and say it means they are only going to straight up RV.....

Now to the other article.....you can look back into the archives and find links directly to the arabic sites to get this article....everyone I have seen says excess liquidity.....if you look up what excess liquidity means you will see that its not taking currency physically out of circulation to be destroyed.....you say well how do you know it was translated right? Because the audits of the CBIs assests back up exactly what the article translates to....nothing was removed from circulation beccause there is still 24 trillion out there.....there is no evidence to support it was translated incorrectly, only to support that its dead on....

Anyone can look up how much currency is in circulation for many countries....its all ouut there to be found by anyone who wants to know....this is the information age remember? You just have to know where to look....and the numbers I posted are dead on....Iraq cannot have a larger money supply in physical currency then almost all the world combbined....its almost like a supply and demand type of thing...if you have too much of anything its not worth crap, which is where iraq is now....not to mention that there is no need for the dinar and its not like its going to be used internationally on a daily basis so there is no demand for it....there are other reasons why they can't rv high with such a large chunk of cash but I gotta get ready for work....do a little legwork and look up the amounts in circulation for most of the world and you tell me if it makes sense that iraq can suddenly have so much and it be worth more then the whole world hahahaha you know that when iraq had the three dollar rates they only had 25 BILLION in circulation? Big difference now bro

Keep, you haven't answered half the questions I've asked you and when you have it is with more logic and your own perspective.

This post which you are also involved in sums up the confusion.

No one knows what they are planning on doing and the translations from Arabic to English are terrible so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Stevevintennessee]

Hey keep you seem to know a ton about this subject, and tell honestly what your opinion is... So something that no one has ever explained to me well is why wouldn't this situation play out much like the situation in the united states where the gov took the infamous $10000 and $1000 bills out of circulation, but replaced them with same value lower denominations. So for instance the 10000 bill you traded in for 100 100 dollar bills. No "value" lost. I believe that we did it for the same reason Iraq is doing it. I guess the whole LOP thing just doesn't make sense to me. Not that I don't believe it, just that I don't fully understand the necessity of it I guess. Could you explain? Thank bro! Great post!