educate citizens changing money and use it before you delete the zeros of

[zigmeister]

This has nothing to do with Iraq RDing their currency nor using Turkey as an example of how they plan to do it, Turkey's financial woes are not due to the RD they still have the same problems that got them in the inflationary mess that caused the RD in the first place, Iraq should have a much better financial outlook considering what they have to offer the world as far as an exportable and highly profitable commodity, Turkey was not and is not now in that situation.

What country has blossomed after an RD? Apparently Turkey is still having growing pains.

[Stryker365]

That's the problem with the RV theory, as it stands now there are 1000 times more Dinar in circulation than they could back with a RV of any significant size so that's the purpose of the RD. The RD gets the currency levels down to a reasonable figure, similar to Iraq's neighbors, then they can strengthen the Dinar against other currency because they can then RV to a much higher rate. They can do this because they could back Billions of Dinar at $1+ but they could not back 30 Trillion Dinar at more than a very few cents. Iraq has Billions to back it's currency but it has Trillions in circulation and until it gets those numbers closer to each other there is no way a $1+ RV can happen.

Let me throw a hypothetical scenario out here, let me first start with some facts;

Shabibi said that the CBI was ready to remove the 000's, article date was June 22, 2011 (if you need me to find it and bring it in here, just let me know), CBI here in the last few weeks refer to this too, they sometime say the date was the 20th depending on what article your read. We all could not believe that he annouced that they were ready to RV by June 30th, that date was to be a big date in the Dinar world,, I think everyone would agree, sanctions removed, DFI Funds released.

Did he screw up? Did he make a mistake? Now we know it did not happen, no RV, no removal of the 000's, right?

Now here is the hypothetical scenario;

Lets say he told us the truth and thru daily actions, the CBI started removing the 000's back then, from circulation to the point that there is 4 trillion in country as one article not long ago had stated. Now, you and others would say to this...why would they keep talking about it? I could give you several answers to this, may not be right but again this is hypothetical, right? Why would they say that parliament still needs to approve the plan? There is a lot of questions that could and should come up and thats OK, thats why Adam set this form up in the first place. Another article a few months ago stated by the journalist that there were massive amounts of dinar held in vaults and safes in banks and there was several provinces that had no dinar and they were having to use USD to buy goods.

Here is another fact; CBI is the head of Iraqis monetary system and as the CBI Govenor DR. Shabibi can do anything he wants to, as long as he can give a written reason that it was needed for the better of the country.

This could lead to a really good RV IMO but yet it is just a scenario

This is just my scenario and there are many out there, my point is you nor I know exactly what the real scenario will play out but I choose to see the best until it proves me wrong.

Good depate tho!!!!!

[uncirculd]

The title of this article says:

"educate citizens changing money and use it before you delete the zero"

So to me it says change the money first and use it before you delete the zeros.

So,

no comment.

[tigerstripes]

The title of this article says:

"educate citizens changing money and use it before you delete the zero"

So to me it says change the money first and use it before you delete the zeros.

So,

no comment.

Hey. Kudos to you for actually reading the title. I like the part about educating the citizens before implementing. Their doing a bang up job so far.

The article does state that the proposal fom the CBI has only been discussed by the finance committee and the CBI - not presented in full to parliament. So if they have a plan, why not tell parliament what it is?

No they have stated on several occasions that they intend for the currency to co-exist with the old for a period, both will be used as the new is gradually integrated into the system.

Still looking for those statements from the CBI or the Parliament.

You really got me thinking about this. I did not realize how much Turkey had out there. Amazing, Turkey really did not have a choice. I do know Turkey had to RD more than once to settle the currency issue. IMO I do not think Iraq can wait for a possible RD in the future as well as issuing new currency again.

So I am going to think out of the box here. Let's say Iraq RV's at the rate they were before Saddam came into the picture, which is something like 3.00+. Okay the Iraqi people now have a currency that is worth more than the dollar. What do they do? They have a currency worth more than the dollar, they have a lot of dollars. Do they cash in and get what they can? My thought is some will, holding their dinar that is worth more. The US pays for their cash in. Iraq gets rid of dollarization, which they say they want.

We here in the United States cash in. I have no idea how much it is, nor do I know the quota of other people like us in other countries hold. But Iraq pays the bill, remember their currency is now more than the US and may be more valuable than some of the other countries....all in all the bill may not end up that much. Because no one has figured out how much US dollars the Iraqi people hold. As a matter of fact I do not recall that discussion at all.

Well my thinking out of the box is a bit blurry.....cause I haven't thunk it out much....just the top of me head! But I thought I would shoot it out there anyway.

Good posts JW....keep em coming!

Hi Zig,

I raised the issue of the $US value a couple of days ago and didn't get much traction. The CBI financials state around 7 trillion dinar worth of foreign currency deposits......but no idea how much is circulating on the streets. I f what they say is right about the people using $US instead of dinar for day to day purchases it could be a substantial amount. If there is a large amount of $US in circulation, why do they then have 25 trillion dinar in currency outside the banks as well? Seems like a lot of cash floating around in the economy......

[uncirculd]

Hey. Kudos to you for actually reading the title. I like the part about educating the citizens before implementing. Their doing a bang up job so far.

The article does state that the proposal fom the CBI has only been discussed by the finance committee and the CBI - not presented in full to parliament. So if they have a plan, why not tell parliament what it is?

Still looking for those statements from the CBI or the Parliament.

Tigerstripes, they have educated the high ranking Parliament members, but they did not understand it. To this day, and still have questions. That article came out yesterday I believe about them not understanding blaming CBI has not educated Parliament. That is not true.

[Shelley]

Doug Doug Doug.....cmon already....whats your agenda Doug? They havent clearly stated anything.

Youve been around here for all of 30 days and you got it all figured out.....you constantly ask why know one wants to consider the possibilities....yet everything you say is stated as fact....we have kicked this dead horse over and over...we are now having to battle the horseflies....we ALL know the possibilitiea Doug...you arent stating anything new...u should check out the LOP Talk section if you want to discuss your "possibilities"....i gotta tell you...you dont seem to think a LOP is a possibility...you obviously rant like its a guarantee....

Bottomline Doug...your making yourself look silly....this investment isnt for everybody...and obviously it isnt for you...so just sell me your dinar....I will give you 1200 per mill...and once it RVs...I will sell them back to you at 50% of the RV amount....sound good Doug???

Are you here to save us all???

Lol...seriously Doug...tellin a self proclaimes newbie that its definitely guna LOP...cmon Doug you dont know anything for sure! How would you feel if that person sold off and then it RVs next week? Would you care? I doubt it....Doug this is something that has never happened and will never happened before....comparing to Turkey Doug...cmon....Iraq and Turkey are nowhere near the same. You have any idea how many notes were in circulation when Turkey RD? Any idea of how many Turkish citizens held bank accounts? How many international companies were flocking to Turkey when they RD? How many bigtime Ivestors where headed to Turkey? Turkeys oil? Turkeys gold? Turkeys natural resources? Minerals? Natural Gas? Did the US occupy Turkey for 8 yrs before the RD? Was Turkeys inflation artificial? Did US print the Lira?

Doug Doug Doug....on the internet anyone can say whatever they want...even you...I just ask as well as many others Im sure....just dont state things as fact when you truly have no clue what EXACTLY is guna happen just like EVERYONE ELSE DOUGGG!!!

Just give a rest already! We are getting really close to that possible RV Doug and we all would really like to enjoy our final days here on DVs!

Go RV Doug!!! :)

JWJW.... I want to announce to the entire DV site I have fallen in love with you Thank you for telling it like it is !!!!!!

[tigerstripes]

Tigerstripes, they have educated the high ranking Parliament members, but they did not understand it. To this day, and still have questions. That article came out yesterday I believe about them not understanding blaming CBI has not educated Parliament. That is not true.

Oh yes, I agree with you thaht they have been told and they probably didn't understand. It's pretty complex after all. My question is, has the parliament been told the entire plan? Because Mr Saleh says that removing the zeros won't increase the value. If I was a member of the parliament, and the finance committee said to me that we are going to remove the zeros from the currency, but the value will stay the same, I would have questions too.

Actually, my first question would be -"If removing the zeros doesn't increase the value, how do you propose to increase the value of the dinar? Because that has been your intention. To raise the value of the dinar to a more respectable (former value??) level."

[Stryker365]

If I am understanding you right you are asking what if Iraq got their currency down to "only"4 Trillion? Add to that the several Trillion held by speculators and there is still WAAAAY too much Dinar in circulation! You have to remember that even 1 Trillion Dinar RVed to $1 is five times the worth of the very wealthy Saudis (I know broken record but it's still true!) so don't you see the problem? They can not have more Dinar worth than they have wealth to back it up with, they simply can not have Trillions of Dollars worth of wealth in circulation. They must get the currency figure in circulation down into the Billions not Trillions, they can not just make themselves hundreds of times richer than their neighbors by simply adjusting the currency exchange rate it just doesn't work that way, that point should be obvious to everyone.

No they have stated on several occasions that they intend for the currency to co-exist with the old for a period, both will be used as the new is gradually integrated into the system.

Now why don't you just let us know exactly how much their wealth is, I do not think you or anyone thats on here can answer that.

And by the way I was not asking, this was a scenario and I was not talking about what was backing the currency, that is another piece of the puzzle.

I too would like to know your agenda, you have been on DV for around 30 days and have 300+ plus post trying to prove you know more than anyone here.

I have run into your type in my business dealing both on the private & federal side of the fence....what side of the fence do you live?

[pocono]

Iraq has used Russia as an example on more than one occasion...the attached link explains how it was accomplished...how the people were "educated" prior to the event and how both the old and new currencies co-existed for a time...it's in English with no translation issues.

Note the mis-use of the the term "revalued" in the headline,something common in the Iraqi articles..

Whether Iraq actually does it is anybodies guess but this explains it in simple terms..

1998003028_1_ruble-redenomination-russia.htm

[E. 1999]

First lira

After periods pegged to the British pound and the French franc, a peg of 2.8 lira = 1 U.S. dollar was adopted in 1946 and maintained until 1960, when the currency was devalued to 9 lira = 1 dollar. From 1970, a series of hard, then soft pegs to the dollar operated as the value of the lira began to fall.

Because of the chronic inflation experienced in Turkey from the 1970s through to the 1990s, the lira experienced severe depreciation in value. Turkey has had high inflation rates compared to developed countries but has never suffered hyperinflation. From an average of 9 lira per U.S. dollar in the late 1960s, the currency came to trade at approximately 1.65 million lira per U.S. dollar in late 2001. This represented an average inflation of more than 40% per year.

1966 — 1 U.S. dollar = 9 lira

1980 — 1 U.S. dollar = 90 lira

1988 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1,300 lira

1995 — 1 U.S. dollar = 45,000 lira

1996 — 1 U.S. dollar = 107,000 lira

2001 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1,650,000 lira

2004 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1,350,000 lira

2005 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1.29 new lira (The use of New Turkish Lira, which drops 6 zeros from the currency Turkish Lira, was implemented in 2005)

2007 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1.26 new lira

2008 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1.55 new lira

2009 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1.48 new lira

2010 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1.44 lira

2011 — 1 U.S. dollar = 1.81 lira

In 2010, the name was converted to Turkish Lira, but New Turkish Lira was used as currency until 31 December 2009. In the last decade, the Turkish lira stabilized against the U.S. dollar and the euro, although in 2011 it has been losing value steadily. The Guinness Book of Records ranked the lira as the world's least valuable currency in 1995 and 1996, and again in 1999 through 2004. The lira had slid in value to such an extent that one original gold lira coin could be sold for approximately 120,000,000 lira prior to the 2005 revaluation.

Second lira

In late December 2003, the Grand National Assembly of Turkey passed a law that allowed for redenomination by the removal of six zeroes from the lira, and the creation of a new currency. It was introduced on 1 January 2005, replacing the previous lira (which remained valid in circulation until the end of 2005) at a rate of 1 second lira (ISO 4217 code "TRY") = 1,000,000 first lira (ISO 4217 code "TRL"). With the revaluation of the Turkish lira, the Romanian leu (also revalued in July 2005) briefly became the world's least valued currency unit.

In the transitional period between 1 January 2005 and 31 December 2008, the second lira was officially called Yeni Türk Lirası (New Turkish lira).[3] It was officially abbreviated "YTL" and subdivided into 100 new kuruş (yeni kuruş). With effect from 1 January 2009, the "new" was removed from the second lira, its official name becoming just "lira" again, abbreviated "TL".

[Bittersweet]

DinarBot Note. DinarBot Team Has Warka Account which is calculated to 3 decimal places i.e. 525000.675 IQD (for example only) Electronically this figure is possible but in hard currency it is not. Also, if moving 3 places on the actual currency then they must implement the same status on Bank Accounts. Now DinarBot Account reads 525.000675 - The Bank Just stole all of Iraqi Citizens fils with the push of a Button. The 9% of Iraqi citizens that do have bank accounts will never trust the Banking industry again. All the Best to Humans.

Kudos to Dinarbot!! Fully agree with him.

~B

[Elixirbaby]

The title of this article says:

"educate citizens changing money and use it before you delete the zero"

So to me it says change the money first and use it before you delete the zeros.

So,

no comment.

Delete the zeros means retire the notes that have three zeros.

Go rv

[Hawaii 50]

You are of course right, these articles are what they are and all of them are plainly stating they are going to RD, it does us no good to read into it the way we WANT it to be because that won't change a thing. Our only hope here is that they might be lying to cover their real intentions but that hope is looking more bleak the longer it goes on and with every time a new article comes out.

Ok Then Give up your Dinar. Then you will not have to worry about anything Iraq does.

[keepmwlknfny]

TAV showed us yesterday that the International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS) will not permit Iraq, or any country, to do this.

Really?? Well I guess more then a handful of countries pulled a fast one on them!! Better let them know.......maybe you can even get a reward for it!!

[kaRV]

Delete the zeros means retire the notes that have three zeros.

Go rv

Exactly... They need to educate the people before they RD in 2013. First remove the zeros (take the proper amount of notes out of circulation), second raise the zeros (raise the value of the notes), third delete the zeros (destroy the collected old notes) and redenominate the whole currency (lop). This whole process is called lifting the zeros. They're talking about deleting the zeros so much cuz they can't screw up the Iraqi citizens' chance to finally get paid by 2013 and to curb speculation (which is obviously working here on DV haha).

[keepmwlknfny]

Turkey was, and still is, the Sick Man of Europe.

Turkey has the world's 15th largest GDP-PPP^[2] and 17th largest Nominal GDP.^[16] The country is a founding member of the OECD(1961) and one of the G-20 major economies (1999). Since December 31, 1995, Turkey is also a part of the EU Customs Union. Mean graduate pay was $10.02 per manhour in 2010.

The CIA classifies Turkey as a developed country.^[17] Turkey is often classified as a newly industrialized country by economists and political scientists;^[18][19][20] while Merrill Lynch, the World Bank and The Economist magazine describe Turkey as an emerging market economy.^[21][22][23]

The World Bank classifies Turkey as an upper-middle income country in terms of the country's per capita GDP in 2007.^[23]

According to a survey by Forbes magazine, Istanbul, Turkey's financial capital, had a total of 28 billionaires as of March 2010 (down from 34 in 2008^[24]), ranking 4th in the world behind New York City (60 billionaires), Moscow (50 billionaires), and London (32 billionaires).^[25]

Like many economies, the Turkish economy has been affected by the global financial crisis with its Finance Ministry reporting that Turkey's budget deficit swelled to 23.2 billion Turkish liras ($15 billion) in the first half of 2009, 13 times higher than a year earlier.^[26]

Nevertheless, The Economist points out that:^[22]

Yet in many ways Turkey has weathered the credit crunch better than other emerging economies. Partly thanks to tough regulation, not a single Turkish bank has gone under. That is also because, unlike many Western banks, they have few toxic assets and limited mortgage exposure. So the government has not had to divert public money into rescuing banks reserving thus the public debt in a low level. Also the turkish banks have a high liquidity monitored in the credit ratings index of financial strength which is equal to this of the major european banks.

In 2009, the Turkish Government introduced various economic stimulus measures to reduce the impact of the financial crisis such as temporary tax cuts on automobiles, home appliances and housing. As a result, the production of durable consumer goods increased by 7.2%, despite a decrease in automotive production.^[27]

The Turkish Stock Market and credit rating agencies have responded positively. Share prices in Turkey nearly doubled over the course of 2009. According to The Economist, in the period December 2008 - December 2009 the Turkish stockmarket rose the most in the world after Argentina's stockmarket.^[28] On 8 January 2010, International credit rating agency Moody's upgraded Turkey's rating with a notch.^[29] The credit rating agency Fitch upgraded Turkey’s sovereign rating two notches to BB+. Turkey is one of the few countries that saw its rating upgraded by two notches.

[zigmeister]

Hey. Kudos to you for actually reading the title. I like the part about educating the citizens before implementing. Their doing a bang up job so far.

The article does state that the proposal fom the CBI has only been discussed by the finance committee and the CBI - not presented in full to parliament. So if they have a plan, why not tell parliament what it is?

Still looking for those statements from the CBI or the Parliament.

Hi Zig,

I raised the issue of the $US value a couple of days ago and didn't get much traction. The CBI financials state around 7 trillion dinar worth of foreign currency deposits......but no idea how much is circulating on the streets. I f what they say is right about the people using $US instead of dinar for day to day purchases it could be a substantial amount. If there is a large amount of $US in circulation, why do they then have 25 trillion dinar in currency outside the banks as well? Seems like a lot of cash floating around in the economy......

You know what tigerstripes it had not occurred to me until this moment. We are so focused on how Iraq is going to pay for this, we kind of overlook the full picture don't you think? Sort of *** for tat? From my understanding Iraq, is mostly in dollars at this point. Any one can correct me, please do. What's your thoughts?

[uncirculd]

Oh yes, I agree with you thaht they have been told and they probably didn't understand. It's pretty complex after all. My question is, has the parliament been told the entire plan? Because Mr Saleh says that removing the zeros won't increase the value. If I was a member of the parliament, and the finance committee said to me that we are going to remove the zeros from the currency, but the value will stay the same, I would have questions too.

Actually, my first question would be -"If removing the zeros doesn't increase the value, how do you propose to increase the value of the dinar? Because that has been your intention. To raise the value of the dinar to a more respectable (former value??) level."

Lemme give you a link that says it will raise the value. Use google translate. You will love this article. I think it posted here on DV.

http://www.nakhelnew...s.php?nid=11244

Here it is already translated.

Central Bank reveals details of the Iraq Currency

Palm - the central bank of Iraq, that Iraq's new currency will increase by three zeros, indicating that he had conducted an extensive study concluded that the lifting of the zeroes will strengthen the value of the Iraqi currency.

The deputy governor of Central Bank of Iraq the appearance of Mohammed Saleh during a media statement: The Central Bank is determined to raise the three zeros from the currency of the new Iraqi and presented its project to the government and the House of Representatives and is awaiting the government's decision and the Council of Representatives.

Economists and shows that the process of removing three zeros from the Iraqi currency will lead to increased value, and to increase the purchasing power of citizens, noting to the need to pursue policies to persuade the citizens quiet and get a feel for a period not exceeding two years.

And the benefit that the draft lifting the three zeroes from the currency made by the government five years ago to the Central Bank, and has undergone throughout this period to an extensive study over the need to raise zeros to strengthen the value of the Iraqi currency, adding that the deletion of zeros enhance the value of the Iraqi currency and reduce the cost of handling cash, and currency its current estimated size of today Petrlionat dinars, which makes the process of dealing with the monetary cost is high.

The Central Bank of Iraq began to discuss amending the categories of the dinar last year and is still a large part of the payments being in cash due to the evolution of the banking system, noting that the President of the Securities Commission of Iraq has said, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect the circulation of the Iraqi Stock Exchange and shares.

Edited December 1, 2011 by uncirculd

[keepmwlknfny]

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:TUR&dl=en&hl=en&q=turkey+gdp#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:TUR:IRQ&ifdim=country&hl=en&dl=en

A little comparison of GDP's between Iraq and Turkey.....

[uncirculd]

hey keepmwl,

u gettin an education from a newbie? just checkin. ... "retailing" ?

Edited December 1, 2011 by uncirculd

[keepmwlknfny]

I'm only retailing what I read. I was wrong, Keep. You don't believe everything you read. You only believe the negative things you read. And no, typing "LOL" to excess does not make the negative a positive.

Perhaps you should consider moving to Turkey... Turkey!

Well now dont get all upset because the facts come to light and you had a revelation.....

hey keepmwl,

u gettin an education from a newbie? just checkin. ... "retailing" ?

More like the other way around!

[redsand]

Iraq is getting investors people. Turkey cannot. That is a big difference. Money will be pumping into Iraq.

My link

[keepmwlknfny]

Who's upset? Not me. And certainly not you. You're the kind of guy who lowers his expectations to a ridiculous extent so as to never face any kind of disappointment.

Hahahaha no Im the kind of guy who doesnt let his emotions get the best of him and keep him blind to all the aspects of the situation.....I like to stay on the ground, in reality......

You may stay up there as long as you would like.....

[uncirculd]

Sanssouci2, You said:

""Opened an account at home because I could never successfully log in at home. Don't ask me why"

OK..no comment.

Today is Wednesday, just checking. I am the same person today than yesterday, but maybe tomorrow I will be a different person for I cannot know this, for it is tomorrow..

==========================

Keepmw, I got it, Sanssouci2 has been hacked.

Edited December 1, 2011 by uncirculd

[keepmwlknfny]

Iraq is getting investors people. Turkey cannot. That is a big difference. Money will be pumping into Iraq.

My link

http://www.invest.gov.tr/EN-US/INVESTMENTGUIDE/INVESTORSGUIDE/Pages/FDIinTurkey.aspx

They are the 15th most attractive destination for direct foreign investment.....They do have billions rolling in the door....not too shabby!!