Rational Thinking and Negativity

[Poseidon]

randalln It appears Inheritance makes a valid point. If you got a sweet $ 1.27 deal in a bank in Iraq why be selling for $999,999.00 yesterday?

[4aprofit]

I myself, quit worrying about the Pumpers...when I started investigating and finding out first hand about the double and triple gains that have already been made in Warka Bank with the high compounding interest paid, the ISX/Iraqi Stock Exchange, and even the dinar cash holdings as well, that have all been held for a few years for long term growth...it was "UNBELIEVABLE"......and hey, this thing has'nt even materialized yet...for better or worse...if it flops now after several years of excellent profits, while blood was running in the streets over there...oh well, IMO, the U.S. won't make you any richer either, with your investments here.....or anywhere else IMO...it has'nt lately has it?...or in several years while Iraq has!...lol.....So, with all of this said, what's the beef about all of this...ride it and hush...it will ether come or go...but it has to do something...and looking at the past growth, it looks great...now, with what all we see moving into Iraq, by looking at the present and future growth in Iraq...it is UNPRECEDENTED MOVEMENTS OF MONEY!!!.....and bigger than anything in the World's History...as per monetary and economic growth....Forget the PUMPERS and the DUMPERS...do what each of you feel lead to do as per what you see Iraq doing monetarily...if you dont like to see the growth that is setting world records...sell out...if you want to take a shot at this as a wise and viable position then do so....Some are saying that this is a scam....telling us this beore it's even over...Worldcom, Enron, Bear Stearns, Leahman Brothers and others...did'nt tell you anything but good news up until they flopped...just like any Bank that's ever caved in...What I'm trying to say is many are putting the cart before the horse...is it to try and make you sell back because we are so close and their crafty pumper skills have reverted over to dumper schemes...I don't know, but I do know that there is a spread going either way in buying or selling dinars...and I would assume as we near the end of this thing, if it were to RV...and if some thought that we were close, and could profit from us, would'nt they?....If they did it selling it to us, why would'nt they make money in buying it back from us?...LOOK AT THE UPSIDE FOR THEM ON THE BUYBACK VERSUS THE SALES OF IT TO US WHILE IT WAS ALMOST WORTHLESS......WITH WHAT WE'VE SEEN ALREADY OF THEIR PUMPING SKILLS, DON'T YOU FOLKS THINK THAT THEY CAN BE EVEN MORE CRAFTY IN THIS BUYBACK SCHEME...ESPECIALLY SINCE THE UPSIDE COMING BACK IN WOULD BE HUGE...SO BEWARE!...THIS IS WHY "NEGATIVITY" BOTHER ME PERSONALLY...IMO....TO EACH HIS OWN!!!

Edited June 26, 2011 by 4aprofit

[sheepdog]

Legolas, thanks for reprinting Jim1cor13's response to Nani's question,"Why people think the Dinar won't LOP". I read all of Jim's post. I like his conservative take on this investment. I also read all your posts as well. I don't have the time, inclination desire to research the way many do here on DV. I appreciate all their time and effort to bring factual info to me about this investment. I've never invested in anything before and the person who brought me into this was very positive about the possible re-value of the Iraqi dinar, so I hoped on board. I have since learned so much about Iraq's history, why this opportunity came about and especially meeting new very smart people. You do a great job bringing excellent info and reason to the forum. Thanks to you, Jim and all the others.

Keep, I love this! Ok Mr.Wannabenewguruofthemonth: you are soooooooooooooooooo funny. Thanks for the humor

[randalln]

randalln It appears Inheritance makes a valid point. If you got a sweet $ 1.27 deal in a bank in Iraq why be selling for $999,999.00 yesterday?

If you read the whole post you will see i was joaking, but if you want to buy at that rate I have 79 mill left.

I will deliver after payment .

[umbertino]

Absolutely correct Slade....I missed that one. And by the way, I also neglected to say: AWESOME JOB Jim1cor13!

Great Post Legolas ( and Jim) . As usual.... About this very subject......I do believe it has also to do with one's own pride. Not wanting ( refusing infact , cos the risk is to lose face with ourselves and others which is unbearable for many ) to admit that we have been had, duped, outright lied to ( not on this Investment but on many/most things we were told mainly by Gurus/Pumpers which were/are just plain un-true) without us realizing that. So People tend to insist rather than to admit , giving in even one single inch of pride and recur to words like "Negativity" etc....The very thought of having been had, lied, to, etc. is simply un-bearable to most of us. Therefore all the various reactions.

Edited June 26, 2011 by umbertino

[4aprofit]

I like watching long term holdings of dinars rise, ISX stock holdings rise and a Warka Acct. rise...is that NEGATIVITY?....WITH THESE TYPE GAINS...WHO'S BEEN LIED TO?...AT LEAST NOT ON PAPER!.....LOL.....

[Legolas]

I like watching long term holdings of dinars rise, ISX stock holdings rise and a Warka Acct. rise...is that NEGATIVITY?....WITH THESE TYPE GAINS...WHO'S BEEN LIED TO?...AT LEAST NOT ON PAPER!.....LOL.....

There's "some" truth to that, 4aprofit, however we all know that very few investors on these Dinar sites invested early enough to have seen an increase in value in their Dinar purchases. Fewer still have accounts at Warka, or investments in the ISX. Early investors did see a small profit when the exchange rate increase slightly several years ago from the 1400's to the current fixed rate of 1170. At current exchange rates, MOST are currently invested at a "loss" of at least 20%, with many as high as 40% after factoring in exchange premiums. The "lies" referred to are those of the pumpers and gurus for the last 5 years, not Warka or the ISX. Obviously there's a distinct difference.

[drox]

Legolas and JimCor... thank you so much for shining light in dark unpopular places with your contributions. Jimcor your response was outstanding and to the core of the issue. Although we are optimistic and enthralled by this investment too, I believe an inherent responsibility has emerge in those of us that have done the research and can now view it from all sides. That responsiblity is not to necessarily to play policemen of the investment so much as to provide our research and alternate perspectives so you all may make use of it to help formulate your theory more. It is not to tell you how to think. I have openly challenged many a guru when I believe they make misleading remarks. It not in a threatening tone so much as a challenge for them to not be so lazy in the claims they make. That there are many of us that can call BS when we see it.

Think of the Enron's, the Madoffs, the Blodgets, the S&Ls, the Alt A and subprime lending crooks that took smart people who simply "believed" it was God's will to invest with them. Shining light through those cracks will help to ensure future Dinar investors to really think it through. It will encourage all of us to not be put in compromising positions when telling friends and family of it being the "can't miss investment of a lifetime".

This is NOT the Kuwait situation at all. That was more like your $500,000 house value that took a hit because your neighbor just sold as a foreclosure in a fire sale at $200,000. A temporary blip that self corrected itself. Iraq is your $500,000 house that burned down to the ground and you didn't have insurance. You are now stuck with a $25,000 lot but with the upside to build whatever you want. It is money out of your pocket to build it though and you are still on the hook to the lender for the old one. That's how I see it. I see this as rebuilding Iraq from the ground up. We have poured the foundation and the framers are unloading the 2x4's. Lets have some fun and see where this take us.

The truth shall set you free.

Edited June 26, 2011 by drox

[R2d2dc]

I think Jim has put it all into perspective very elequently and Legolas as well. Great post.

The only negativity I have seen from the camp that believes in the LOP is their frustration in getting people to see what they see. Calling people Stupid did not do anything for the conversations except heat the conversation up and cement the NonLOP people into never even considering it.

Keepem, has mellowed out from that stance and people started to listen to his reasoning, as he has had a very good handle on the LOP side all along.

I do Not know what will happen and believe that the LOP is a very Strong possibiltiy as it is the one thing that makes sense for Iraq, whether we like it or not, this isn't about us IMO. Don't go crazy because I have an opinion, It really doesn't mean anything, it's just an Opinion.

Jim, Great job, Lego Thanks for reposting, I had not seen it. Very Respectful and grounded on both your parts.

Thank you,

r2

[Carrello]

There is a fine line between expressing reality and tromping on the dreams of others with hobnail boots. And unfortunately, many self-proclaimed reality-pushers are so negative that they have no clue or simply don't care where that line is.

I agree, Francie. And many self-proclaimed reality pushers just cannot get used to relying on facts.

It's guys like randalln who claim to have inside info who make this invesment a joke. I see a lop on it way, but would love to be wrong. Everyone needs to be ready for it now cause when and if it does lop you will be prepared.

so you gave them $1,000.00 and they said here is 1 million dinar worth $1.17 so your now a Millionaire good work my friend LOL!!!

Poseidon, perhaps you have expressed your opinion before on this, but what is your take on Scooter's research and analysis regarding a LOP? Scooter's work is so highly regarded, I am wondering where you differ exactly.

Thanks!

[debratzz]

We now have lop gurus? :lol:

[Carrello]

Let's not lose site of the original intent and turn a good post into a "peeing" contest. The purpose is to encourage "rational" discussion of every position, and not simply boldly claim legitimacy of one or the other without providing supporting evidence and a reasonable explanation. Doing otherwise is an unproductive waste of time and effort and merely encourages dissent.

Speaking of rational discussion, I would like to make a comment about another post, and the lack of discussion it received.

Darin announced that he was leaving DV a few days ago. I have always regarded his opinion as one that was researched, knowledgeable, and deserved merit. He appeared to be a professional, big picture, econ guy. No one commented on Darin's departure, and I feel it is yet another loss to DV. I found this very disturbing. The conversations are LOP, ***-for-tat, or just plain back-and-forth enjoying the sound of your own voice. In Darin, we loose another valuable member, and that in my opinion (and I am no expert) is loosing someone that is knowledgeable about international finances, currency, and governments, and I always learned something after reading one of his posts. I, for one, will miss Darin. I wish he would tell me where he went!

[umbertino]

We now have lop gurus? :lol:

Not exactly... Only people that do not shut their ears, eyes when it comes to a realistic take of the possible outcome of this Dinar issue.. Which includes also a LOP, like it or not. Doesn't mean they want it ( infact they do not, just as anybody else)... Only that they are considering it ( intelligently) as one of the possibilities. It's called realism and being grounded.

[jmw]

Thanks for the excellent responses thus far gang. And Keep is correct.....it should go to ALL of the forums, but probably wouldn't be tolerated in most of them. If you liked Jim's post, I would encourage you to go back to his original, (link below) and give him a "+" for it. I'm sure he's been slammed a few times in the past and could use some positive reinforcement. It truly was en excellent post, and expresses what many would like to say and might not be able to put into words.

Good idea...actually for both of you as your words were as eloquent...well maybe not quite as good as Jim...but close...Jim has an amazing way with words and it would be even better if they could pin this so it is always available. I really appreciate all the different perspectives...from yours Legolas (please don't quit posting), Keeps, Drox, Dinarck, Quad, umbertino, Dalite, Slade.....and many others....there are good people that know what they are talking about that are doing a great job of overcoming the hype and creating an environment where people can discuss and learn more....and to me...that is where the value in the site comes in....makes it much better than any other.

[THINK.....]

A very wise friend once explained it to me this way. "Sometimes, if the carrot hung in front of someone is big enough, they can't see past it."

[umbertino]

Quote

from yours Legolas (please don't quit posting), Keeps, Drox, Dinarck, Quad, umbertino, Dalite, Slade...

End Quote

Kind of you to include me. Thanks. Appreciated.

[debratzz]

Not exactly... Only people that do not shut their ears, eyes when it comes to a realistic take of the possible outcome of this Dinar issue.. Which includes also a LOP, like it or not. Doesn't mean they want it ( infact they do not, just as anybody else)... Only that they are considering it ( intelligently) as one of the possibilities. It's called realism and being grounded.

One can consider the lop"intelligently", all day long.....still speculation!

Some of the "intellectual lop gurus", come off as apes pounding their chest!

[Legolas]

Thanks for all the great responses gang. We've evidently lost a few great thinkers recently, but it's obvious that we still have a core group of level-headed people around who are willing to explore all angles and potentialities. Nani's original post in the "questions" forum resulted in some great research and posts. It's difficult to assemble them all in a format which makes the various positions easy to analyze, and many don't have the time to follow every link posted, but I have to say that the discussions which often result from even the most unusual original posts can be effectively thought provoking. It appears that Jim1Cor13 wasn't around today to add to the discussion, but he deserves credit for starting it. This should be an interesting week. Let's hope something positive happens for a change.

[zul]

Speaking of rational discussion, I would like to make a comment about another post, and the lack of discussion it received.

Darin announced that he was leaving DV a few days ago. I have always regarded his opinion as one that was researched, knowledgeable, and deserved merit. He appeared to be a professional, big picture, econ guy. No one commented on Darin's departure, and I feel it is yet another loss to DV. I found this very disturbing. The conversations are LOP, ***-for-tat, or just plain back-and-forth enjoying the sound of your own voice. In Darin, we loose another valuable member, and that in my opinion (and I am no expert) is loosing someone that is knowledgeable about international finances, currency, and governments, and I always learned something after reading one of his posts. I, for one, will miss Darin. I wish he would tell me where he went!

Darin too..? Really..?

[debratzz]

Darin too..? Really..?

Hey zul dont know if you are aware that many of the members and mods are at a new site. I can't divulge the name for fear of being banned! But if you do some research you can find many of them there. I hope I have not overstepped any boundaries!

[umbertino]

One can consider the lop"intelligently", all day long.....still speculation!

Some of the "intellectual lop gurus", come off as apes pounding their chest!

It's a pleasure reasoning with you... Anyway... Best.....

[LaGrange]

Quick, I'm getting saved from this investment folly in another thread! lol

Was going to post the link but the thread is gone now. Must be a white hat conspiracy. hmmmmmm....................

Edited June 27, 2011 by LaGrange

[caz1104]

One can consider the lop"intelligently", all day long.....still speculation!

Some of the "intellectual lop gurus", come off as apes pounding their chest!

This is what I don't understand,if u believe in a LOP fine I have no problem with that. But the continous redundancy of the argument gets old. I hope & believe that a RV will occur based on what I've researched & read from those I respect. I am more of an optimist in life but do look at all angles not just in investments. IMO you can find good or evil/bad in almost anything,I choose good. For those who choose the other,no problem it's your choice. I must say that I do stay clear of the those types in all aspects of my life(business & personal), my personal choice. I prefer sunshine over darkness,again my choice. With all that said I wish only the best for all involved..................................................GO RV (no LOP) 2011 BABY!!!!!!!!

[umbertino]

This is what I don't understand,if u believe in a LOP fine I have no problem with that. But the continous redundancy of the argument gets old. I hope & believe that a RV will occur based on what I've researched & read from those I respect. I am more of an optimist in life but do look at all angles not just in investments. IMO you can find good or evil/bad in almost anything,I choose good. For those who choose the other,no problem it's your choice. I must say that I do stay clear of the those types in all aspects of my life(business & personal), my personal choice. I prefer sunshine over darkness,again my choice. With all that said I wish only the best for all involved..................................................GO RV (no LOP) 2011 BABY!!!!!!!!

All which is being said is that there's also that possibility. Just not to overlook it completely.

[caz1104]

All which is being said is that there's also that possibility. Just not to overlook it completely.

Thats cool,but why the continous dwelling of a possible negative? What exactly is the end game? To sway others thoughts? is'nt that exactly what alot of the naysayers complain about the pumpers,.sheep will always be sheep. When and how this ends,there will be plenty of time for those to brag one way or another,until then its all guesswork...............................................GO RV 2011 BABY!!!!!