keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Im sure that everyone at some point has read the whole "economists" view on how we will cash in our dinars in the states.....well part of that whole explanation is based on the fact that we will be using Dinar to buy oil from Iraq and maybe thats what people believe about the supposed other giants that are "proposed" to have massive amounts of dinar as well....I found this article and it goes into detail about the use of the petrodollar, how hurtful it will be to the US if countries deviate from using the USD to purchase oil, and also how part of the reason for wanting to oust Saddam was because he broke the agreement between all OPEC countries to use USD and he started demanding the Euro for payment of oil.....After reading all of this information, it seems even more doubtful that after all that, we are going to all of a sudden use dinar for purchasing our oil when it has such a negative affect on the USD and our economy. Not to mention what kind of signals we would be sending to the international community and all its OPEC members....how serious would they take us and the agreements to only use USD??? It would have more of a negative impact then anything else.....Which is why I dont put much faith at all into that economists view of the RV and how it would work.....It doesnt hold much validity to me anymore......Feel free to chime in on what you think about this article and its contents. and then tell me how going back to the economists explanation of the RV makes sense and could work...I know its kinda long, but it is VERY good information that we all should read, after all, this could have a very large impact on our future economically speaking here in the US The whole premise on that explanation of how we would cash in is based off the US buying oil from Iraq with the Dinar we cash in for exchange.....well as me and MrFnHappy were discussing (hope he doesnt mind me using his name lol) The value of the dinar is based on the reserves held in USD, if countries were to drop the USD, and use something else, like Dinar, the value of the USD would drastically fall, therefore in return affecting the value of the Dinar in a negative way.....They are tied in hand in hand....one will affect the other....so it would be one of the dumbest things for the US to supposedly be planning to do for this RV exchange in the US to work.....I know the whole explanation sounds great and its exactly how we want it to work out but its flawed....it doesnt hold much weight at all to me anymore....The US doesnt take lightly the idea of countries using other currencies for the purchasing of oil, its a motive for war as it states....A big no no....So while we are so strickt on everyone else around the world using the USD for oil, how can we turn around and use something else like the Dinar and expect everything to be ok?? Just thought Id share my thoughts...... http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article803.html 13 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Naught Spy Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Geez, maybe there IS something with all this "Bilderburger Group" talk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising dough Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Maybe they will take that 3.1 trillion dinar and cash it in to pay off their debt to China. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Maybe they will take that 3.1 trillion dinar and cash it in to pay off their debt to China. It would be a nice thought but central banks dont buy and sell currency for profit....only to manage monetary policies....and it seems China doesnt want our money anyways since they want to rid their own reserves of USD.....scary thoughts going on...we are in a time of many uncertainties.... 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmcc Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Our government has never been open and honest about anything. Most people in the US don't have any idea about how the banking system works let alone how the Fed functions and I am sure that there would be an uprising if they thought they could go into a bank and cash out and the bank said they ran out of money. Too many things we don't know here and probably never will. This country could be great again if the government worried about the people here and not every where else in the world. Charity begins at home. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billio0 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 The USD is currently valued by its level of debt. Having IQD in our treasury raises the value of the USD once the value of the IQD increases via the RV. Thus, our debt may then be reduced, or paid off to countries such as China. Whether we use that additional value to purchase oil, or just set on it, doesn't really matter. We own the dinar as the cost of helping Iraq become a democracy. Doing so adds future worth to our own currency, and that is what really matters. I agree that using dinars to purchase oil seems foolish and counter-productive with regard to the value of the USD. The key is that the oil is purchased at a much lower rate than market value. Thus, the value of the USD remains intact, if not actually higher overall. Hope this helps with your question. If not, at least I tried. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 The USD is currently valued by its level of debt. Having IQD in our treasury raises the value of the USD once the value of the IQD increases via the RV. Thus, our debt may then be reduced, or paid off to countries such as China. Whether we use that additional value to purchase oil, or just set on it, doesn't really matter. We own the dinar as the cost of helping Iraq become a democracy. Doing so adds future worth to our own currency, and that is what really matters. I agree that using dinars to purchase oil seems foolish and counter-productive with regard to the value of the USD. The key is that the oil is purchased at a much lower rate than market value. Thus, the value of the USD remains intact, if not actually higher overall. Hope this helps with your question. If not, at least I tried. And thats all based on just a theory that the UST holds massive amounts of dinar.....no solid evidence either way since some information they dont release. I personally dont believe we are holding mass amounts for profit once an RV occurs.....its just the opposite of why countries buy and sell currencies...its for managing monetary policy.....so I guess it could help the value of the USD, but it wont matter if the USD is dropped as the worlds reserve or as the currency for buying and selling oil cause we will be in deep sh*&t if that happens.....My point was simply that with the major point of that economists explanation of an rv being based on the US buying oil with dinar just sounds silly now...so in my mind, it kinda discredits the whole thing....thanks for adding to the conversation!! Our government has never been open and honest about anything. Most people in the US don't have any idea about how the banking system works let alone how the Fed functions and I am sure that there would be an uprising if they thought they could go into a bank and cash out and the bank said they ran out of money. Too many things we don't know here and probably never will. This country could be great again if the government worried about the people here and not every where else in the world. Charity begins at home. I can agree with you for the most part!! We are too busy worrying about how everyone else is doing and how we can fix everyone elses problems, but never concentrate enough on our own!! But this topic and the article I posted should be read by everyone....to open their eyes to the possibilities of what the future may hold for us in the US......This is something we need to be worried about.... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quattro 8 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Why would the USA want to use anything other than the USD to buy Oil from Iraq when just create/print that currency essentially for free ? Remember the last time that Iraq tried to sell it oil in anything other the USD? yep.... it got invaded.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billio0 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) You are correct that we have no concrete evidence of the exact amount of IQD holdings in the US Treasury, nor do we have any proof that those IQD can be exchanged for oil at a reduced rate to the current market value. Most things that pertain to our investment in IQD have been based on speculation and rumor, as is the case with all investments. If the IMF is intent on forcing all world currencies to be asset-based, such as what the IQD is to be based on, then again the USA is fully qualified to remain the number one currency in the world since there are an abundance of assets in this great country of ours. In that regard I include a recent post from one of our fellow investors (hopefully with permission to do so): From STRATFOR "Vice President of Analysis Peter Zeihan explains how the U.S. dollar’s position as the global reserve currency makes default impossible and why the euro and yuan cannot currently assume the role. Ultimately a credit ratings agency’s assessments of a country are based in how sustainable the country’s budgeting processes are. Now the United States — it’s not that great; between the Bush administration and the current Obama administration, American finances are certainly on an unsustainable course. Tax revenues are relatively high right now, but with the baby boomers about to retire, they’ll be taking their tax income with them. Spending is high and is showing few signs of being brought under control either by this administration or by Congress. There aren’t a lot of options for rationalizing the budget: You could drastically increase the retirement age; you could do away with some sort of social benefits, such as social security; you could sharply raise taxes. All of these are political nonstarters; they’re all political suicide. So by the books, yes, the United States deserves a downgrade — maybe more than one. But ultimately that’s irrelevant. In the case of United States, default is absolutely impossible. All U.S. government debt is denominated in U.S. dollar assets. The U.S. dollar is the global currency. The U.S. Federal Reserve controls U.S. dollar policy. So long as this is the case, it’s absolutely impossible to default on the debt. Luckily for the Americans, there is absolutely no currency out there that is within a generation of replacing the United States dollar as the global currency. Let’s examine why that is the case. First, let’s look at the euro. The euro is certainly the currency that is the closest to displacing the U.S. dollar as the global currency. But if you look at the events of the last couple of years, you’ll notice that the Europeans have been in a nonstop financial crisis, honestly, since before the global recession even began back in mid-2008. Nearly all of the Continent’s banks are not only unstable but they’ve now become interlinked to the currency and the sovereign debt problems that have been racking the Europeans for the last several months. They have convinced their banks to purchase large volumes of sovereign debt — in essence doubling down, throwing the good private assets against the bad government assets. The only way that the euro can seriously be considered a global currency is if the euro manages to get through this crisis in one piece willingly. But that requires 26 states consciously signing over their sovereignty to another country — not very likely. Next comes the Chinese yuan. First of all, and perhaps most importantly, the Chinese yuan is not even convertible — it’s not even a hard currency, you can’t take it out of the country, it’s not accepted as legal tender anywhere in the world except for mainland China. Second, as manipulated as the Japanese yen is, the Chinese yuan is even more so. In the past three years, the Chinese have printed the equivalent of $5 trillion U.S. dollars in Chinese yuan in order to maintain their subsidized credit system. Without this they wouldn’t be able to maintain the loan structure — subsidized loan structure — that keeps their entire export economy going. Third, the currency policy is a peg to the U.S. dollar, so the Chinese have zero currency risk. They know that the Americans will buy at X price, so they maintain the rate right there. Should the yuan fully float, all of a sudden it would be rising and falling with various trade balances. That means that the Chinese exporters would no longer have reliability in their trade negotiations — they wouldn’t be able to guaranteed pricing — and that would probably drive a great many of them out of business right off the bat. You make the yuan the global currency and all of a sudden the Chinese currency is volatile because of its connections to the oil and the corn markets, for example, and you’re going to be dealing with mass bankruptcies across the entire Chinese industrial base. Shortly after that, you will have mass unemployment and the social instability that the Chinese government has always feared. Fourth, they know that the real power in the system comes from the consumer, not the producer, and so long as the Chinese economy is one of exporters and not importers, they can’t stomach the burden of the global currency. They need to stay linked to a much larger system, and for the foreseeable future that system is going to be the American one. From a bookkeeping point of view, Standard & Poor’s is absolutely right. U.S. spending policies are out of control; they’re not showing any sign of being fixed in the near future. That said, the U.S. is a special case because it is a country that can manipulate the currency policy of the entire global system for its own benefit, and as we’ve seen in the past, the Federal Reserve really doesn’t have a problem doing that." As I said earlier, I hope this helps! Edited June 5, 2011 by billio0 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Why would the USA want to use anything other than the USD to buy Oil from Iraq when just create/print that currency essentially for free ? Remember the last time that Iraq tried to sell it oil in anything other the USD? yep.... it got invaded.... Yep....I know!! Exactly why I dont think the "Economists view or how the RV will work" holds any water but yet people seem to cling to it whenever someone questions how Iraq can afford to RV or how this will be pulled off..... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legolas Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I would have to agree, Keepm. Not only is the U.S. desperate to maintain the Dollar as the world's reserve currency, as well as the petroDollar continuing as the only oil currency, but the U.S. currently consumes almost TWICE as much oil as Iraq produces. Iraq is not currently capable of supplying even half of the oil needs of the U.S., let alone the other countries which intend to produce and buy Iraqi oil. Further, there has never been documented evidence of the claim that the U.S. Treasury holds massive amounts of Dinars. Based on the purchase estimates of billions of Dinars each month by U.S. investors, I suspect that we as investors may very well hold more than the treasury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 You are correct that we have no concrete evidence of the exact amount of IQD holdings in the US Treasury, nor do we have any proof that those IQD can be exchanged for oil at a reduced rate to the current market value. Most things that pertain to our investment in IQD have been based on speculation and rumor, as is the case with all investments. If the IMF is intent on forcing all world currencies to be asset-based, such as what the IQD is to be based on, then again the USA is fully qualified to remain the number one currency in the world since there are an abundance of assets in this great country of ours. In that regard I include a recent post from one of our fellow investors (hopefully with permission to do so): From STRATFOR "Vice President of Analysis Peter Zeihan explains how the U.S. dollar’s position as the global reserve currency makes default impossible and why the euro and yuan cannot currently assume the role. Ultimately a credit ratings agency’s assessments of a country are based in how sustainable the country’s budgeting processes are. Now the United States — it’s not that great; between the Bush administration and the current Obama administration, American finances are certainly on an unsustainable course. Tax revenues are relatively high right now, but with the baby boomers about to retire, they’ll be taking their tax income with them. Spending is high and is showing few signs of being brought under control either by this administration or by Congress. There aren’t a lot of options for rationalizing the budget: You could drastically increase the retirement age; you could do away with some sort of social benefits, such as social security; you could sharply raise taxes. All of these are political nonstarters; they’re all political suicide. So by the books, yes, the United States deserves a downgrade — maybe more than one. But ultimately that’s irrelevant. In the case of United States, default is absolutely impossible. All U.S. government debt is denominated in U.S. dollar assets. The U.S. dollar is the global currency. The U.S. Federal Reserve controls U.S. dollar policy. So long as this is the case, it’s absolutely impossible to default on the debt. Luckily for the Americans, there is absolutely no currency out there that is within a generation of replacing the United States dollar as the global currency. Let’s examine why that is the case. First, let’s look at the euro. The euro is certainly the currency that is the closest to displacing the U.S. dollar as the global currency. But if you look at the events of the last couple of years, you’ll notice that the Europeans have been in a nonstop financial crisis, honestly, since before the global recession even began back in mid-2008. Nearly all of the Continent’s banks are not only unstable but they’ve now become interlinked to the currency and the sovereign debt problems that have been racking the Europeans for the last several months. They have convinced their banks to purchase large volumes of sovereign debt — in essence doubling down, throwing the good private assets against the bad government assets. The only way that the euro can seriously be considered a global currency is if the euro manages to get through this crisis in one piece willingly. But that requires 26 states consciously signing over their sovereignty to another country — not very likely. Next comes the Chinese yuan. First of all, and perhaps most importantly, the Chinese yuan is not even convertible — it’s not even a hard currency, you can’t take it out of the country, it’s not accepted as legal tender anywhere in the world except for mainland China. Second, as manipulated as the Japanese yen is, the Chinese yuan is even more so. In the past three years, the Chinese have printed the equivalent of $5 trillion U.S. dollars in Chinese yuan in order to maintain their subsidized credit system. Without this they wouldn’t be able to maintain the loan structure — subsidized loan structure — that keeps their entire export economy going. Third, the currency policy is a peg to the U.S. dollar, so the Chinese have zero currency risk. They know that the Americans will buy at X price, so they maintain the rate right there. Should the yuan fully float, all of a sudden it would be rising and falling with various trade balances. That means that the Chinese exporters would no longer have reliability in their trade negotiations — they wouldn’t be able to guaranteed pricing — and that would probably drive a great many of them out of business right off the bat. You make the yuan the global currency and all of a sudden the Chinese currency is volatile because of its connections to the oil and the corn markets, for example, and you’re going to be dealing with mass bankruptcies across the entire Chinese industrial base. Shortly after that, you will have mass unemployment and the social instability that the Chinese government has always feared. Fourth, they know that the real power in the system comes from the consumer, not the producer, and so long as the Chinese economy is one of exporters and not importers, they can’t stomach the burden of the global currency. They need to stay linked to a much larger system, and for the foreseeable future that system is going to be the American one. From a bookkeeping point of view, Standard & Poor’s is absolutely right. U.S. spending policies are out of control; they’re not showing any sign of being fixed in the near future. That said, the U.S. is a special case because it is a country that can manipulate the currency policy of the entire global system for its own benefit, and as we’ve seen in the past, the Federal Reserve really doesn’t have a problem doing that." As I said earlier, I hope this helps! Well that definately gives hope to the idea of the USD remaining as the global reserve currency! But now still there is curiousity about whether using the USD for purchasing oil can be changed....and what affects that would have.....would still think that could have a negative impact on us.....anyone have ideas on that?? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quattro 8 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Legolas re "I suspect that we as investors may very well hold more than the treasury" Yep i think we all do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbosh Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 If in fact the world keeps buying oil with Dollars, perhaps the countries holding dinar will simply 'cash in' themselves, buying freshly minted US currency in exchange for their dinar holdings. The dinars come here, where we become even MORE invested in Iraq, her oil reserves, and production capability. Just like our government can get away with the sale and distribution of carbon credits for the emission of domestic companies, they could offer oil credits in exchange for increase 'tax' revenue (discounted, of course). That would allow them (USG) to send the Dinar home, keeping the value of it here in the States. While the government wouldn't be buying oil directly, they would still be capitalizing on the IQD for US$ for oil exchange. Thoughts? gbosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmcc Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 KeepM, I have been worried about the old USof A for a while. People say we can't go down, but a quick look at history and we see the Geek empire, the Roman empire, the Ottoman empire just to name a few. It can happen. What worries me more than anything is this world order stuff. Don't want to go there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim1cor13 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) Hi keep Thank you for the excellent points being made. I can attest to several of your comments as being spot on. Saddam was planning on breaking out of the OPEC clan and demand the euro for payments. That move alone was indeed part of the reason we entered Iraq to topple him, THAT was more of a threat to us than the case made against him for having WMD's. Few admit to this particular action on his part, but as far as I can tell, his plan to break the OPEC agreement and demand euro was in fact "the final straw" so to speak. In reality, as hated as Saddam was, including by his own neighbors, he actually was heading in a direction that made sense, but he underestimated the fall out and consequent response from the U.S. In addition, Iran has already made the switch to euro for oil within the last few years. Also, the BRIC countries, Brazil, Russia, China, India have ALL called for the end of the USD$ as world reserve currency, and it is fully understandable *why* they are doing this. All one needs to do is actually research how we have debased the USD over the last few years, including our insane attempt at thinking we can "force" an economic recovery by SPENDING and going into trillions of debt. The message is, "we can spend our way out of recession". That in itself has scared many countries and they finally realized it was time to begin to steer away from the USD and RUN as fast as they can in the opposite direction! The U.S. monetary policy has become the laughing stock of the world, including Europes policies having to try and "bail out" their failing members, including Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain. In reality, they CANNOT pull this off and consequently many of these countries will ultimately fail. You can only buy up so many of those countries bonds and other instruments because they are already rated as "junk". So that cute little move will not work in the long run for Europe. Truth is, ALL fiat currencies are facing collapse and no confidence vote. Countries racing around thinking it is possible to survive indefinitely by utilizing a never ending tool of "stimulus and bail out" mentality are horribly wrong and it will only cause a much more massive consequence due to their actions. The U.S. Fed has NO more tools left in their bag of schemes, and therefore quantitative easing will continue until it implodes. QE3 is already underway and being discussed, which further proves that it has and will continue to be an utter failure because the funds went to all the wrong players. Wall street and their minion banks were rewarded for their fraud for so many years. Selling worthless derivatives and knowing all along they were garbage paper. We have serious problems already coming to the surface, and one thing is for certain...the game being played at this time including by BOTH sides of the aisle in Washington is for show only. They ALL know we are cooked due to our insane monetary policies, and ultimately, the taxpayers are left with a bill that can never be paid. This is criminal activity of historical proportions, and it has gone not only basically ignored, but those guilty were rewarded. These are the reasons and many more, why I have said for goodness sake, Iraq is not and cannot "save the world" let alone get the U.S. out of its current dream state. It is a full fledged disaster and unfortunately most have remained asleep. Our debt is not going to magically disappear regardless of any eventual revaluation of the IQD. This has been the creation of those that have turned this speculation into a complete circus with these claims. The mentality that we in the U.S. and other countries have had that has miserably failed is thinking that throwing money at our problems will make them all go away. That has now been proven to be not only false, but we also sold out the entire country by thinking in these terms, and soon those that bought our lies are going to call in their debt notes...for one, March 2012, is when we will owe China 1.7 Trillion alone, and people think they will just "buy longer term securities" and roll them over. Not a chance! They know where we are headed. China and others warned us years ago when Pres. Bush made the decision to start the "bail outs" and that was the beginning of this insane mess we now are in. This decision was the fruit of several administrations and the result of many years worth of flawed monetary policy. We do not learn from history, we just embellish it and think we can skirt around not repeating it. So far we have been 100% wrong in this manner of thinking, and it is getting to the point where the U.S. is getting seriously close to one day being absorbed by our largest 'creditors'. There are many countries right now that are licking their lips waiting for the day, and they already know they do not have to lift a finger to see it, because we are walking right down that path to ruin, just as many "empires" before us went and we see how they all turned out. Please forgive me for the length of this post. I look at these things daily in my work, and it never ceases to amaze me at how it all started and how it could have ever got to this point. You brought up some points that must be considered, because they are totally relevant to how things will likely unfold in regards to the IQD and how they will not unfold. If we would have rejected a long time ago the nonsense that has been created by those with other motives, such as the lies and circus atmosphere, we may have been able to stick with facts as well as we could acquire them, and realized that far too many have bought into something that was never founded upon sound research, but founded upon a little truth mixed with severe error, and thus we see every day here how it has somehow been considered as 'fact' when it is far from it. It is a very unfortunate scenario that has come into being that at least as far as I can tell, it has been nothing and continues to be nothing but confusion and discord. Thank you for being one of the handful of members here that have actually researched with sound effort, OUTSIDE of the dinar forums and consequently have arrived at least to a point where you and many others no longer refuse to see and understand BOTH sides of this speculation, hoping for the best outcome while NOT ignoring what history has already taught us about how countries handle their currencies AFTER periods of hyperinflation. I will also include other members off the top of my balding head, such as Dinarck, JMW, Froto, Scooter, and many more who were not fearful of delving into the other side of these matters and admit things may not turn out as we all hope they do. Those that have done so are now foolishly labeled as 'negative' and 'naysayers' when in fact, you simply did what most have refused to do, and that is take the time to LOOK deeply at what history teaches us. What could be wrong with that kind of research? Why should it ever cause so much discord? I for one appreciate all the efforts made to try and help all of us folks see the whole picture and not just the part that offers the most warm and fuzzy feelings. Nothing has been stated up to this point from all those mentioned above, that is out of line nor does it call for the kind of taunting and childish behavior and goading that I have too often read here. THAT to me is out of line. I personally do not understand why anyone would NOT want to examine carefully every detail they could get their mind focused upon, so they do not have to depend upon someone spoon feeding them hype and lies. Some get overly defensive because it intrudes upon the reason(s) they decided to enter this huge speculation. Someday it will all work out, hopefully we will all be pleasantly surprised or at least benefit from this in some form or fashion. Great article and thank you for taking the time to post it. I am very familiar with the site. Sorry again my friend for the long post, I did not intend to draw away from your train of thought, I just wanted to remind all of us just where we are at as a country and how we got here, and some of what you stated certainly applies. All my best! Jim --- Edited June 5, 2011 by Jim1cor13 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 If in fact the world keeps buying oil with Dollars, perhaps the countries holding dinar will simply 'cash in' themselves, buying freshly minted US currency in exchange for their dinar holdings. The dinars come here, where we become even MORE invested in Iraq, her oil reserves, and production capability. Just like our government can get away with the sale and distribution of carbon credits for the emission of domestic companies, they could offer oil credits in exchange for increase 'tax' revenue (discounted, of course). That would allow them (USG) to send the Dinar home, keeping the value of it here in the States. While the government wouldn't be buying oil directly, they would still be capitalizing on the IQD for US$ for oil exchange. Thoughts? gbosh Well my only thought to that is the fact countries dont buy other countries currencies for a profit but to maintain monetary policies....I truely believe its a stretch that many countries hold dinar waiting for a RV to cash them in....in your scenerio your saying that basically we will shell out supposed trillions of USD to all these other countries now for the dinar....I dont think we can do that honestly....does anyone know this could be possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quattro 8 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 All correct Jim, so what can the man in the street do to protect himself? well a few things.... starting with getting some (physical) Gold & Silver in your hand Gold is the Money of Kings, Silver is the Money of Gentlemen, Barter is the Money of Peasants, Debt is the Money of Slaves, And all paper currencies are issued as DEBT ! ( read it yourself, it says "...Promise to pay " ) therefore thats a debt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronberta Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 first off thanks for your insight keep,you like scooter have allways been straight forward,not always agreed with and bashed alot for what ever reason I don't know. I read that view along time ago and always thought it sounded very logical and made some sence,so I'm very glad you went back and rehashed it. And now it makes even more sense to me now the way you opened it up. So thanks for that. As I believe we joined about the same time here,I've always read and followed your post,not always agree but follow just as well,as I really thought this thing was gonna RV by the end of 2010,as we all know it did't. So now I've taken a laid back look @ this investment,just get on here on the weekends and see what the week has brought. And it seems to be getting heated up again as June 30th aproches. Ok keep what is your gut feeling on this date,as I remember reading that you spent time with scooter and his research is second to none!! What are your thoughts on his research and do you really feel the RV will go past this date. Again thanks for all your insight, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbosh Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 keep, I was simply floating a couple of theories of HOW our own govt might use it's dinar holdings in the economic scenario at the start of this thread. I've never believed that they would straight out trade their dinar holdings for oil, but they could certainly allow US companies to use them for a revenue flow through back into the UST coffers. As far as the other countries go, I honestly don't KNOW how much is out there. I think it's safe to assume that if our govt has any dinar, then certainly other governments might. Even we (govt) DON'T hold currency with profit motives, isn't it still reasonable that other countries might? If they (post RV) have significant dinar holdings but must still purchase their oil with US$, they are going to have to exchange those dinar somewhere. And we are REALLY good at printing $$$. Just some hypotheticals for the sake of discussion. So many unknowns that can't/won't be answered before we have an RV/RD. gbosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinardarius Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 If the USA can move the RV as most of us here at DV want the Rv to happen "soon" at $1.00 plus, then the USA well stay at the top. The amount of USA held Dinars as reported from 2003 should be at least 400 Million USD worth at the rate from 2003 (3000 IQD) when exchanged for oil (like all the other countries holding IQD's) no one will care IMO. Question - Did the Bush admin. make a deal with Iraq to RV by a certain date and at a certain rate with no lop? Who is in control of this propaganda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Hi keep Thank you for the excellent points being made. I can attest to several of your comments as being spot on. Saddam was planning on breaking out of the OPEC clan and demand the euro for payments. That move alone was indeed part of the reason we entered Iraq to topple him, THAT was more of a threat to us than the case made against him for having WMD's. Few admit to this particular action on his part, but as far as I can tell, his plan to break the OPEC agreement and demand euro was in fact "the final straw" so to speak. In reality, as hated as Saddam was, including by his own neighbors, he actually was heading in a direction that made sense, but he underestimated the fall out and consequent response from the U.S. In addition, Iran has already made the switch to euro for oil within the last few years. Also, the BRIC countries, Brazil, Russia, China, India have ALL called for the end of the USD$ as world reserve currency, and it is fully understandable *why* they are doing this. All one needs to do is actually research how we have debased the USD over the last few years, including our insane attempt at thinking we can "force" an economic recovery by SPENDING and going into trillions of debt. The message is, "we can spend our way out of recession". That in itself has scared many countries and they finally realized it was time to begin to steer away from the USD and RUN as fast as they can in the opposite direction! The U.S. monetary policy has become the laughing stock of the world, including Europes policies having to try and "bail out" their failing members, including Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain. In reality, they CANNOT pull this off and consequently many of these countries will ultimately fail. You can only buy up so many of those countries bonds and other instruments because they are already rated as "junk". So that cute little move will not work in the long run for Europe. Truth is, ALL fiat currencies are facing collapse and no confidence vote. Countries racing around thinking it is possible to survive indefinitely by utilizing a never ending tool of "stimulus and bail out" mentality are horribly wrong and it will only cause a much more massive consequence due to their actions. The U.S. Fed has NO more tools left in their bag of schemes, and therefore quantitative easing will continue until it implodes. QE3 is already underway and being discussed, which further proves that it has and will continue to be an utter failure because the funds went to all the wrong players. Wall street and their minion banks were rewarded for their fraud for so many years. Selling worthless derivatives and knowing all along they were garbage paper. We have serious problems already coming to the surface, and one thing is for certain...the game being played at this time including by BOTH sides of the aisle in Washington is for show only. They ALL know we are cooked due to our insane monetary policies, and ultimately, the taxpayers are left with a bill that can never be paid. This is criminal activity of historical proportions, and it has gone not only basically ignored, but those guilty were rewarded. These are the reasons and many more, why I have said for goodness sake, Iraq is not and cannot "save the world" let alone get the U.S. out of its current dream state. It is a full fledged disaster and unfortunately most have remained asleep. Our debt is not going to magically disappear regardless of any eventual revaluation of the IQD. This has been the creation of those that have turned this speculation into a complete circus with these claims. The mentality that we in the U.S. and other countries have had that has miserably failed is thinking that throwing money at our problems will make them all go away. That has now been proven to be not only false, but we also sold out the entire country by thinking in these terms, and soon those that bought our lies are going to call in their debt notes...for one, March 2012, is when we will owe China 1.7 Trillion alone, and people think they will just "buy longer term securities" and roll them over. Not a chance! They know where we are headed. China and others warned us years ago when Pres. Bush made the decision to start the "bail outs" and that was the beginning of this insane mess we now are in. This decision was the fruit of several administrations and the result of many years worth of flawed monetary policy. We do not learn from history, we just embellish it and think we can skirt around not repeating it. So far we have been 100% wrong in this manner of thinking, and it is getting to the point where the U.S. is getting seriously close to one day being absorbed by our largest 'creditors'. There are many countries right now that are licking their lips waiting for the day, and they already know they do not have to lift a finger to see it, because we are walking right down that path to ruin, just as many "empires" before us went and we see how they all turned out. Please forgive me for the length of this post. I look at these things daily in my work, and it never ceases to amaze me at how it all started and how it could have ever got to this point. You brought up some points that must be considered, because they are totally relevant to how things will likely unfold in regards to the IQD and how they will not unfold. If we would have rejected a long time ago the nonsense that has been created by those with other motives, such as the lies and circus atmosphere, we may have been able to stick with facts as well as we could acquire them, and realized that far too many have bought into something that was never founded upon sound research, but founded upon a little truth mixed with severe error, and thus we see every day here how it has somehow been considered as 'fact' when it is far from it. It is a very unfortunate scenario that has come into being that at least as far as I can tell, it has been nothing and continues to be nothing but confusion and discord. Thank you for being one of the handful of members here that have actually researched with sound effort, OUTSIDE of the dinar forums and consequently have arrived at least to a point where you and many others no longer refuse to see and understand BOTH sides of this speculation, hoping for the best outcome while NOT ignoring what history has already taught us about how countries handle their currencies AFTER periods of hyperinflation. I will also include other members off the top of my balding head, such as Dinarck, JMW, Froto, Scooter, and many more who were not fearful of delving into the other side of these matters and admit things may not turn out as we all hope they do. Those that have done so are now foolishly labeled as 'negative' and 'naysayers' when in fact, you simply did what most have refused to do, and that is take the time to LOOK deeply at what history teaches us. What could be wrong with that kind of research? Why should it ever cause so much discord? I for one appreciate all the efforts made to try and help all of us folks see the whole picture and not just the part that offers the most warm and fuzzy feelings. Nothing has been stated up to this point from all those mentioned above, that is out of line nor does it call for the kind of taunting and childish behavior and goading that I have too often read here. THAT to me is out of line. I personally do not understand why anyone would NOT want to examine carefully every detail they could get their mind focused upon, so they do not have to depend upon someone spoon feeding them hype and lies. Some get overly defensive because it intrudes upon the reason(s) they decided to enter this huge speculation. Someday it will all work out, hopefully we will all be pleasantly surprised or at least benefit from this in some form or fashion. Great article and thank you for taking the time to post it. I am very familiar with the site. Sorry again my friend for the long post, I did not intend to draw away from your train of thought, I just wanted to remind all of us just where we are at as a country and how we got here, and some of what you stated certainly applies. All my best! Jim --- Hey Jim, No need to apologize bro!! These are the kinds of discussions I like to provoke because we learn the most from these....we learn the most from the topics that arent just about rainbows and unicorns and a 5 dollar RV on monday!! Thank you for adding to the discussion as you have, your post was enlightening to say the least!! And as far as what you said about some of the members here, and looking for truth in what is passed around no matter if its positive or negative, I couldnt have said it better myself!! Good post Jim!!! +1 from me!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 first off thanks for your insight keep,you like scooter have allways been straight forward,not always agreed with and bashed alot for what ever reason I don't know. I read that view along time ago and always thought it sounded very logical and made some sence,so I'm very glad you went back and rehashed it. And now it makes even more sense to me now the way you opened it up. So thanks for that. As I believe we joined about the same time here,I've always read and followed your post,not always agree but follow just as well,as I really thought this thing was gonna RV by the end of 2010,as we all know it did't. So now I've taken a laid back look @ this investment,just get on here on the weekends and see what the week has brought. And it seems to be getting heated up again as June 30th aproches. Ok keep what is your gut feeling on this date,as I remember reading that you spent time with scooter and his research is second to none!! What are your thoughts on his research and do you really feel the RV will go past this date. Again thanks for all your insight, Ron Just as you after nothing happened late last year I took a step back to reanalyze things and kind of go back to the basics. And even as we thought for sure there was no possible way for Iraq to continue without the RV end of last year, I fear the same with every date and time thats mentioned or brought up, saying they cant afford to wait any longer. So while I am hopeful that we could start to see some action, Im no longer holding my breath about any date! Which I think is sound advice for everyone involved!! They are unpredictable as hell and nothing seems to phase them. So no matter how much research we do, Im afraid we cant really be sure!! Got my fingers crossed just as you probly do!! Enjoy your weekend bud!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFnHappy Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronberta Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Just as you after nothing happened late last year I took a step back to reanalyze things and kind of go back to the basics. And even as we thought for sure there was no possible way for Iraq to continue without the RV end of last year, I fear the same with every date and time thats mentioned or brought up, saying they cant afford to wait any longer. So while I am hopeful that we could start to see some action, Im no longer holding my breath about any date! Which I think is sound advice for everyone involved!! They are unpredictable as hell and nothing seems to phase them. So no matter how much research we do, Im afraid we cant really be sure!! Got my fingers crossed just as you probly do!! Enjoy your weekend bud!! thanks again keep,went to the Giant's game yesterday,great seats and now watchin on tv Great Weekend!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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