Why is a lop not possible??

[CO.5-0]

I know this is an un-popular topic but, can anyone provide any logical reasons, other than positive thinking, hopes or pipe dreams, why a lop is not possible??? From articles posted throughout this and other forums, Iraq has stated they want the Dinar on par with the dollar.....They have stated it WILL be on par with the dollar.....a lop accomplishes that...... The 20000 note becomes a 20 "dollar" notebill.....Iraqi citizens actually gain from it and the only people who lose are those, like me, that over-paid some dealer a couple hundred per million.......What reasoning is behind this as, not just impossible, but seemingly probable??? I am told by other investors that it can't happen but no one seems to be able to tell me why.....Thanx for logical responses...

Edited January 11, 2012 by CO.5-0

[truthful1]

It can happen. there will be many that say it cant, they wont, and no way possible. the latest update on cbi statistics, as of september still shows approx. 25 trillion outside banks. so yes its possible. The definition of delete the 000's in the traditional, historic sense says they will rd and put out an entire new currency. so it depends on what definition you are willing to apply to get the end result. iraq can lop, but they have the ability to rv. in my research over the past two years, im still not convinced which way they will go. Im invested because theres a possibility of a straight rv and thats worth the risk to me. go rv

[Scrumdiddles]

Million reason they cant lop, and a million reasons they can lop. Policy watch is the best senario.

[gatoraces]

it is totally possible.

it may even be probable.

Edited January 11, 2012 by gatoraces

[dinarck]

I think its not only probable but that it is occurring as we speak. The CBI has recently stated that they have already begun phase one of three. To me this means it is happening right now. Hundreds of articles and direct quotes, statements, and interviews with Shabibi and Saleh have confirmed that a redenomination is not only the plan but has been decided and is going forward. We have seen much fight from the GOI to go another way but it is clear the CBI has begun the process with or without Gov. approval.

[drc85260]

I have been a dinar investor (?) since 2008 and believe in the process.

However since the CBI has stated on numerous occasions that they will delete 3 zeros first, (move the decimal to the left) then raise the value to equal a US dollar.

I have asked this question to a number of Gurus and have not gotten an answer?

At the risk of sounding like a lopster...why wouldn't they remove the zeros then revalue equal to a dollar?

i.e.: 25,000 IQD = approximately $21 now....remove the zeros...25,000 becomes 25 IQD and then revalue to a dollar to equal $1.

To put another way 1,000,000 IQD = $1,200 now...remove the zeros and 1,000 IQD will equal $1,000

Please tell me I am wrong.

Hopeful,

DrC

[Darin]

This debate will forever be on-going until a defniite conclusion is met. Official documentation will be necessary to prove if we get what we hope for or the worst-case scenario plays out. But, they get to choose their own path which will create their own destiny. I'll throw out some of my own opinions that we as speculators should take into account.

Pscyholoically:

If this a strong factor for how the CBI will decide which route to go? Is the concern how the people will react to either the feeling of lost wealth or the feeling of gained wealth? I'll break this down a little further. If a citizen holds in their savings 5,000,000 IQD and 3 zeros are remove, that citizen will likely feel as if they lost wealth. The way a R/D works is simply a monetary illusion as the 5 million IQD will buy the same amount of goods it always has, but a new set of notes that have 3 zeros omitted will be able to do the same thing. Some may feel as if they were stolen from, some may feel their status has dropped, and some may simply understand the process and move forward without a problem. If CBI has a high priority of looking to strengthen faith in the banking sector, a R/D will likely only damage that idea. However, a R/V will likely help strengthen the faith in banks as citizens would need a place to store their wealth.

Liabilities:

If every Joe, Moe, & Curly cashed out upon a R/V, the foreign cash reserves would be gone extremely fast (Varies by the R/V rate). Some people, especially business owners, would want to cash out for USD to purchase imported goods. This may be countered by creating a demand from foreign nations by making it internationally traded. What some cash out, others may buy in, and the frequency of exchanges increase ten fold. CBI would still have to monitor everything and take necessary actions if any problems arose. But, how stable would the rate remain? Would the market fluctuate the value so much that it could damage the CBI?

If every Joe, Moe, & Curly cashed out upon a R/D, they would have enough funds in their reserves to cover a R/D, but, would it damage their economy? Well, if they had $60 billion in their reserves and it drops 50% because people cut their losses and run, is that a good thing? Many people may be invested, and it would only make logical sense for us to cash-out upon a R/D almost immediately. Why? Because most rate adjustments are made after the old notes are retired. So, we have the choice of cashing out & walking away, cashing out & rebuying in for new lower denoms, or cashing out and investing in Warka or the ISX

But if you were mostly in this for the big pay off, albeit you held hard currency, ISX, or Warka, you may decide to walk away as well. Could the ISX handle this? Could Warka handle this?

What about the local citizens? How would they react having to deal with an additional currency within their local market. They have the 000s IQD notes, the new R/D IQD notes, USD, and even Euros. That is a lot to remember, and may frustrate many which would lead them to find a stable go-to currency they can rely on. Which would most likely be the USD or Euro. That is what I would do until the R/D fiasco plays through to completion. This would cause local demand & foreign demand to drop significantly in my opinion.

Mathematical Logic:

If their M2 is 60 Trillion, obviously a 1:1 rate is out of reach. But, could their economy funciton off of a M2 of 60 Billion and expect proper growth? Keep in mind, their M2 is going to reduce signicantly upon the event of a R/D (Because speculators will cash in). Where does the additional demand come from to counter speculation? I think it was Enoch who did a great break down by using a 1988 economy model, and factoring in inflation, population increases, etc and roughly how much the value of their currency would need to be worth, and it really makes you think why they would have to do more than just R/D to improve their status overall.

If the IQD becomes unstable due to fear of collapse, speculators exchanging for USD, foreign exchanger stations cashing in for other notes, and so forth; where does that leave the IQD to head to?

Additional Factors:

R/D is status quo to the life style of a citizen whereas a R/V would improve it (Creates prosperity, patriotism, faith in their country & Govt, and may even reduce violence)

Their likely population boom as the younger generation grows and looks for work.... (More mouths to feed....)

Their desire for a free-market economy over a welfare state economy

The output & exporting of crude will continually rise and may even go up in cost per barrel.

Foreign investors that pour in upon either event (Which will bring more businesses to their region?)

Utilizing & exporting their natural resources (minerals and such)

Banking sector reform, industrial reform, infastructure improvements, and so forth

I've always wondered the following:

Why is a hybrid scenario not talked about more often?

People are stuck on it either being a R/D or a R/V, but why not a little of both?

They remove 1 or 2 zeros and R/V to $0.86, they R/V to what they know they can sustain and cut of the existing zeros after that, and other possible scenarios.

I.e., if they could R/V to $0.01 without a problem or have anything to fear, why not R/V to the $0.01 rate & remove to zeros (Wallah! You now have a $1 rate which increases buying power for everyone while not taking on additional liabilities as a straight-up R/V to a $1 would cause).

[CO.5-0]

Thanx again!! You guys are awesome!!! If only the (h)okie-ites would stay over in his fairytale website world....

[HopefulTxn]

I have been a dinar investor (?) since 2008 and believe in the process.

However since the CBI has stated on numerous occasions that they will delete 3 zeros first, (move the decimal to the left) then raise the value to equal a US dollar.

I have asked this question to a number of Gurus and have not gotten an answer?

At the risk of sounding like a lopster...why wouldn't they remove the zeros then revalue equal to a dollar?

i.e.: 25,000 IQD = approximately $21 now....remove the zeros...25,000 becomes 25 IQD and then revalue to a dollar to equal $1.

To put another way 1,000,000 IQD = $1,200 now...remove the zeros and 1,000 IQD will equal $1,000

Please tell me I am wrong.

Hopeful,

DrC

Unfortunately, the dinar is not worth $1,200 now. That is just what people speculating on the dinar have to pay because of dealer spreads.

A million dinar at the moment is actually worth around $856 US. So for an Iraqi, moving from ~$856 for a million to ~$1000 for a thousand (lop/RD) would still benefit them. But it definitely won't be putting any smiley faces on the faces of those speculating on dinar, including my own.

[jmw]

a redenomination has happened numerous times....a "significant" RV has never happened...there are reasons it has happened this way...people can give you "opinions" on how people might feel or why some may be angry if the redenominate...but if you look at facts and take the emotion out of it...it makes it easier to look at it objectively.

Their M2 is 60 trillion which puts it out of range for a significant RV

They have clearly stated they want the IQD to be on par with the US dollar....the only way to get it there is to reduce their M2

The best way to reduce their M2 is through a redenomination

Prior to doing a redenomination they need to educate the iraqi's on what their plans are...this is why there are so many articles stating what they are going to do

They have stated that a 25k note will be equal to a new 25 dinar note

they have used Turkey as an example

The above isn't an opinion on why they should or shouldn't or if they can or can't...it is what is currently happening in Iraq right now.

[DinarChiTown]

a redenomination has happened numerous times....a "significant" RV has never happened...there are reasons it has happened this way...people can give you "opinions" on how people might feel or why some may be angry if the redenominate...but if you look at facts and take the emotion out of it...it makes it easier to look at it objectively.

Their M2 is 60 trillion which puts it out of range for a significant RV

They have clearly stated they want the IQD to be on par with the US dollar....the only way to get it there is to reduce their M2

The best way to reduce their M2 is through a redenomination

Prior to doing a redenomination they need to educate the iraqi's on what their plans are...this is why there are so many articles stating what they are going to do

They have stated that a 25k note will be equal to a new 25 dinar note

they have used Turkey as an example

The above isn't an opinion on why they should or shouldn't or if they can or can't...it is what is currently happening in Iraq right now.

Yep. Sucks! Fabrication made up by the dealers to sell it. I wasn't duped though, just bought because my family did. Didn't spend much so I could care less. Took me a good eight months of really digging into it to face the reality. Life goes on...

[tampa1000]

This was an article posted on DDaddy that explains a little, hope it helps....

Here it is:

All,

From the moment I’ve been in this investment even until now, the debate of LOP versus RV has been raging. That very argument is what drove me and thousands of others AWAY from Investors Iraq (IIF), as it appeared it was absolutely overrun by those who felt it was their mission to squash the hopes and dreams of other investors. I am sharing this with the permission of those who have helped bring me this concept to light, from several legitimate economists and very sharp minds, their perspective to help each of you understand this dilemma.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve been told time and again by those who are absolutely in a position to know that this will NOT be a LOP, but will be a straight-up RV, yet I found myself not being able to refute the arguments of those who brought only “part of the truth” forward, using the “numbers” to their advantage through logical focus on that which was clearly understood. This post of mine is dedicated to explaining how an RV will happen.

CONCEPT EXPLAINED:

First off, I’ll use the exchange of a 10,000 IQD note as my example. To help explain the economics of this cash-in example, I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio between the USD and IQD, that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread.

What You Will Receive:

If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2% spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your bank account.

What Your Bank Will Receive:

Your Bank will receive a $10,000 credit to its Federal Reserve Account. They will also be able to add the $200 profit to their “capital account”.

If you don’t understand the “Fractional Banking“ concept that runs our country, you may want to, as that is what this is based on, and is what is behind this entire concept and plan. To learn more about this concept, I suggest you click HERE, and go to a video post I brought to the forum previously, and posted in my “Tidbits“ section.

Ultimately, the bank wins because they are able to gain $2,000 in lending power under the 10% “Fractional Banking“ model.

What the US Treasury Will Receive:

First off, the US Treasury will receive $3,500 in estimated taxes in the quarter after the exchange, because you are now in the “rich” category and get to enjoy the 35% tax bracket. This lowers the “net cost” of the IQD exchange to the US financial system to $6,500 USD (i.e. $10,000 out – $3,500 in). Furthermore, the US Treasury’s rate is higher than the banking rate (we will use in this example 1.25), thereby further reducing their “net cost” from $6,500 to $4,000.

Oil Now Enters the Picture:

At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq. Payment will consist of a $12,500 transfer from the Fed’s foreign currency reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI in a form otherwise known as PetroDollars/PetroDinar. Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they don’t want USD in their foreign currency reserves.

How the CBI “RECAPTURES” the Money:

The $12,500 order is filled with 250 barrels of oil based on the spot price on the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel. From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)

What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note! Can they afford that? I think so! So, instead of paying out $12,500 for a 10,000 IQD note, they only pay $162.50! That doesn’t add to the money supply much at all does it! They receive their IQD back and place it in the CBI, or destroy it.

The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign reserve credits which are equal to $12,500 USD (which had a net acquisition cost of $4,000 USD for the US) for 250 barrels of oil (which has a TOTAL COST to produce of $162.50 USD for Iraq.

More completely explained, and simply put, it cost Iraq $162.50 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $12,500 worth of oil for a net cost of $4,000. That’s how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.)

Other Factors that Strengthen Iraq’s Position and Ability to RV:

•DFI Funds Returned & Other Assets: $280+ Billion USD, plus other frozen assets (estimated at $100 billion) will be returned back to Iraq and added to their foreign currency reserve, bringing it up to $430+ billion USD.

•CBI IQD Reserve Requirement Adjustment: The CBI will change the current fractional IQD reserve requirements from 100% to 15% at the appropriate time. As a result, the the total potential money supply will be raised in value to $2.8 Trillion (430 billion/15), while at the same time, the total physical IQD in circulation will be reduced by removing the large bills with the 3 zeros over a period of 2 years, as they have indicated.

•Oil Production Increased: Iraq will also execute the plan they announced to increase oil production from 2+ million barrels/day to 10 million barrels/day with the resulting revenues flowing directly to the Iraq treasury.

•Oil Futures & Forex Contracts Added: To further stir the pot, the CBI will continue to use it’s sales window to market oil futures and forex contracts. They have shown they can generate significant cash flow in the private market. Think of their impact in public markets.

There, my friends, is how this plan will be enacted and made possible. Taking NOTHING, and turning it into SOMETHING, then bringing it back to a “manageable and reasonable something” that is accepted and supported by seeming endless supplies of oil. This is how the world’s ENTIRE NEW MONETARY SYSTEM will be regenerated and supported and backed, given, in essence, a re-birth and renewed for most governments and economic regions… even by “Black Gold”.

So, here’s the summary for all the “players” involved, giving ballpark numbers, and not taking into account superfluous costs, fees, and other small details that don’t really affect the larger picture:

•Investor’s Net Gain: $10,000 – $200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment that cost $10

•Bank’s Net Gain: $200 added to “capital account”, plus $2,000 they can use to loan out.

•US Treasury Net Gain: $2,500 from the .25 spread on top + $3,500 in quarterly taxes = $6,000

•CBI/GOI/Iraqi People Net Gain: $12,500 – $162.50 = $12,337.50 + Profits from “Other Factors”

•Overall Net Gain for All Involved: $6,370+$200+$6,000+12,337.20 = $24,907.20

This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?! You tell me… can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!!

In this scenario, EVERYONE WINS… and the IQD is slowly (over 2 years) taken back in to the CBI… eventually destroyed, leaving a manageable M2 behind, having created HUGE WEALTH throughout the world to re-supply what was allowed to be destroyed in the “great bleed” over a period of just a few weeks a couple of years ago, even the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. Believe it or not, it has happened for this very purpose, and it IS coming!

Go Iraq… Go Understanding… Go RV… Go Dinar!

[dinarck]

Nice try Tampa. Seen this hundreds of times. Its your peragotive to believe it but please show me just one time in history that a currency has ever jumped by 1000 times its current value. Fractional banking or not there is simply no way there will be an extra 60 trillion worth of value on earth overnight. Hyperinflation would plauge every country on the planet. It cannot happen. This theory which has been passed around every dinar site out there has so many holes in it swiss cheese would be jealous.

[DinarChiTown]

Nice try Tampa. Seen this hundreds of times. Its your peragotive to believe it but please show me just one time in history that a currency has ever jumped by 1000 times its current value. Fractional banking or not there is simply no way there will be an extra 60 trillion worth of value on earth overnight. Hyperinflation would plauge every country on the planet. It cannot happen. This theory which has been passed around every dinar site out there has so many holes in it swiss cheese would be jealous.

uh, yes, you are correct Dinarck. It's amazing to see people cling to this nonsense. No offense to you Tampa, you're just bringing it over.

Edited January 12, 2012 by DinarChiTown

[jmw]

sorry tampa....but that has been debunked many many times....the explanation doesn't work.

[tampa1000]

Nice try Tampa. Seen this hundreds of times. Its your peragotive to believe it but please show me just one time in history that a currency has ever jumped by 1000 times its current value. Fractional banking or not there is simply no way there will be an extra 60 trillion worth of value on earth overnight. Hyperinflation would plauge every country on the planet. It cannot happen. This theory which has been passed around every dinar site out there has so many holes in it swiss cheese would be jealous.

Hey what are you talking about with your nice try!! I have nothing to prove, just was sharing something a read!!! People like you that are ready to jump all over something keep away any informtion someone is sharing even if you think its good or bad!!!!!!!!!!! Tell us all something on here, what do you have to offer??????????????Again what do you have to offer???????? I'm waiting, thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HopefulTxn]

This was an article posted on DDaddy that explains a little, hope it helps....

If you are waiting for DD to show you non-biased information on how this can work to your benefit, you will be waiting a very LONG time.

Unfortunately, the information that you posted has been debunked more times than Okie has been correct in all his predictions. Which for those keeping score means A LOT.

[tampa1000]

If you are waiting for DD to show you non-biased information on how this can work to your benefit, you will be waiting a very LONG time.

Unfortunately, the information that you posted has been debunked more times than Okie has been correct in all his predictions. Which for those keeping score means A LOT.

I did not say I'm waiting on anything, like I said I was only sharing something I read!!! Pay attention before you start being negative!!! That's the reason no one wants to share anything on here!!!

Why don't you add a little and share how its been debunked and let us know what you know!!! Do you have anything to offer? I guess NOT!!!

[markchem]

Yes yes yes, A lop is very possible and is easier to defend than the high hopes for a lucrative RV. Which, incidentally, is why the overwhelming majority of us got into this investment. So rather than waste your time, and all of our time who check a post to realize it is the same mamby-pamby rhetoric of people who think they are so smart to try to dispel theories, myths, or whatever else you want to call this Iraqi monetary situation. For me, all these lopster posters would be better suited to just sell their damn dinar for a minor loss and reinvest in something safe like a CD or whole life insurance and leave the rest of us the hell alone. I am sick of all this hypothesizing why this will never happen - and, again I know it may well not. Thank God people like Rockefeller, Edison, Gates and the like were not surrounded by multitudes of naysayers like yourselves; we would still be in the Stone Age.

[tampa1000]

Yes yes yes, A lop is very possible and is easier to defend than the high hopes for a lucrative RV. Which, incidentally, is why the overwhelming majority of us got into this investment. So rather than waste your time, and all of our time who check a post to realize it is the same mamby-pamby rhetoric of people who think they are so smart to try to dispel theories, myths, or whatever else you want to call this Iraqi monetary situation. For me, all these lopster posters would be better suited to just sell their damn dinar for a minor loss and reinvest in something safe like a CD or whole life insurance and leave the rest of us the hell alone. I am sick of all this hypothesizing why this will never happen - and, again I know it may well not. Thank God people like Rockefeller, Edison, Gates and the like were not surrounded by multitudes of naysayers like yourselves; we would still be in the Stone Age.

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You hit the nail on the head!!! if you don't think this will happen please sell you dinar and go away!!!!!!!!!!!Lopters how can I say it more clearly............If i'm wrong prove it and tell me WHY ARE YOU HERE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!If I thought this was not going to happen I would NOT BE HERE!!!!! Listening to you CRAP****

[Legolas]

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You hit the nail on the head!!! if you don't think this will happen please sell you dinar and go away!!!!!!!!!!!Lopters how can I say it more clearly............If i'm wrong prove it and tell me WHY ARE YOU HERE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!If I thought this was not going to happen I would NOT BE HERE!!!!! Listening to you CRAP****

How many times does it have to be said? If you don't want to read the TRUTH, don't READ it! There are many thousands of people on these websites who have been victimized by lying, cheating, low-life scumbags who have made made MILLIONS of dollars at the expense of countless people who could ill-afford to lose their money. And if you think that many of them have not YET lost their money, think again. Many people invested in the "reserve" or "lay away" plans devised by these dealers, and have lost untold amounts of money after having been promised that the RV was going to occur time after time after time, only to discover to their horror that they were deceived. THAT FACT is indisputable, regardless of the final outcome with the Dinar. Another indisputable fact is that we've been lied to thousands of times, and yet many still want to believe.

If you've been on these sites for a few years, you know that many people have lost their homes, cars, and everything they own as a result of this Dinar "investment." Several have even died, having committed suicide over the despair created by these con artists, and yet another killed while rushing to the bank to buy more Dinars, believing that the RV was "imminent." So stop bitching at the few of us who have chosen to present the RATIONAL side of this argument. I promise you there are many hear who are grateful for having heard it, and for having seen it REPEATED for the new people who arrive at these sites on a daily basis. Don't tell me that YOU are smart enough to make your own decisions. Some people are easily swayed by smooth talking snake oil salesmen.....others are not. Have the decency to allow people to read what they want to read. Personally I prefer to see both sides presented fairly, thoroughly, and RATIONALLY while I wait for this house of cards to collapse as the dealers, site owners and corrupt Iraqi politicians become millionaires at our expense. In the end, who is smarter remains to be seen, but SOME of us are here because we care. There needs to be no other reason. Maybe the liars and con artists will pay in the end, and maybe they won't. Only time will tell. Nuff said???

[dinarck]

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You hit the nail on the head!!! if you don't think this will happen please sell you dinar and go away!!!!!!!!!!!Lopters how can I say it more clearly............If i'm wrong prove it and tell me WHY ARE YOU HERE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!If I thought this was not going to happen I would NOT BE HERE!!!!! Listening to you CRAP****

Huh? This is the LOP section. If you expect to hear fairy tales here you have come to the wrong place. I will answer your question as to why I am here but then I expect you to answer my question. I am here to monitor what is going on with the dinar. I have fully accepted that I wont make millions off this deal and at this point I am hoping to break even with a slim possibility that they will raise the value post RD and allow us to exchange. Now that I answered your question plaese answer mine. What have we said that is untrue. Thanks.

[sonny1]

so this is were they come to..........

[harry2299]

How many times does it have to be said? If you don't want to read the TRUTH, don't READ it! There are many thousands of people on these websites who have been victimized by lying, cheating, low-life scumbags who have made made MILLIONS of dollars at the expense of countless people who could ill-afford to lose their money. And if you think that many of them have not YET lost their money, think again. Many people invested in the "reserve" or "lay away" plans devised by these dealers, and have lost untold amounts of money after having been promised that the RV was going to occur time after time after time, only to discover to their horror that they were deceived. THAT FACT is indisputable, regardless of the final outcome with the Dinar. Another indisputable fact is that we've been lied to thousands of times, and yet many still want to believe.

If you've been on these sites for a few years, you know that many people have lost their homes, cars, and everything they own as a result of this Dinar "investment." Several have even died, having committed suicide over the despair created by these con artists, and yet another killed while rushing to the bank to buy more Dinars, believing that the RV was "imminent." So stop bitching at the few of us who have chosen to present the RATIONAL side of this argument. I promise you there are many hear who are grateful for having heard it, and for having seen it REPEATED for the new people who arrive at these sites on a daily basis. Don't tell me that YOU are smart enough to make your own decisions. Some people are easily swayed by smooth talking snake oil salesmen.....others are not. Have the decency to allow people to read what they want to read. Personally I prefer to see both sides presented fairly, thoroughly, and RATIONALLY while I wait for this house of cards to collapse as the dealers, site owners and corrupt Iraqi politicians become millionaires at our expense. In the end, who is smarter remains to be seen, but SOME of us are here because we care. There needs to be no other reason. Maybe the liars and con artists will pay in the end, and maybe they won't. Only time will tell. Nuff said???

More people need to read this post...Thanks Legolas.

[dinar_millions]

STUDY THE CURRENCY revaluation of Germany,Japan,Russia, France and Kuwait all post war revaluation and all returned to pre-war value,,,,all followed the War,rebuild, re-denominate and profit take model...

Iraq will return to value of $3.22... i can't say when..but, then nobody can..

Edited January 12, 2012 by dinar_millions