Does Iraq have the wealth to RV the ID?

[genevieve]

It's not a question of whether they have the wealth to RV.....it's always been a question of what value of an RV can they support?

Please expound. Thanks.

Kinda seems like a chicken or the egg scenario.

Edited November 11, 2011 by genevieve

[genevieve]

Reverse the comment.

"It's always been a question of what value of an RV that they can support, not a question of whether they have the wealth to RV".

[genevieve]

The CBI has been posting articles since Jan of last year, they couldn't have been more clear.

Just because folks like Kaperoni have tried to spin it since Jan that it means just the 000's will be effected, doesn't make it true!

He worked for Roger and these guys (Breitling included) have been on their lower denom insurance pumper plan ever since.

I prefer to listen to the CBI. Personally.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwww.nahrain.com%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DmGJ%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ar&twu=1&u=http://xendan.org/arabic/drejaA.aspx%3F%3Dhewal%26jmara%3D2897%26Jor%3D2

[Luigi1]

Granted but 30 TRILLION dollars, more money than is available in the industrialized world, is still a problem. This is why I believe they are telling the truth when they say they are in the process of RDing the Dinar. I know there are all kinds of explanations for how they can RV without RDing first but everything put forth by the pro RV crowd is just theory (just as it is theory about how a RD would go). But when talking about a small war torn country like Iraq suddenly re-valuing their money into the trillions it just makes no sense. All just my opinion of course and worth only what you paid for it.

The Dollar is on it's last leg & will continue to weaken because there is nothing to back up the Dollar but the value of the paper & ink to print more Dollars out of thin air.

Iraq has assets to back up it's currency. Not just oil but riches in the ground like rare earth minerals, an educated workforce & hard working proud people.

People need to understand the US doesn't buy that much oil from Iraq.

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/research/crude-oil/where-the-us-gets-its-oil-from/

You are correct. The EU & South Korea mostly benefit from Iraqi oil. That frees up more oil exports from Mexico, Nigeria & Venezuela to the USA that otherwise may be going to the EU & SK.

[rvb4jan1]

I wish I could just take my Dinar and invest in the ISX. I don't need a lot of cash; I need long-term, high yield dividends !!!!

[genevieve]

The assets Iraq has that are still in the ground do not back up it's currency and the minerals everyone speaks of are years away. Also your comments on the dollar, while they may well be true, does nothing to address the fact that in order for Iraq to RV to any sizable amount without a RD first would require them having a worth into the Trillions of dollars and that's not possible. Any way you cut it 30 TRILLION is just too much to RV into any significant amount, again that's TRILLIONS and Iraq can not RV into the Trillions of dollars! They can however RD, like they say they are going to do, and solve this problem because they will have effectively reduced the excessively bloated money supply to a more realistic figure that will be in line with other local economies. At this point Iraq's Dinar supply is 1000 times bigger than it needs to be and that is exactly the problem they are plainly saying they are going to address by implementing a RD. Are they just lying to us and they really do intend to claim an impossible worth of more money than is available in the industrialized world? Or could it be that just maybe they are telling the truth and intend to do something entirely plausible which is what they are telling us plainly they are going to do?

Bingo!

Seems like people get confused when you say "countries only re denominated because of hyper inflation", in Iraq the currency is hyper inflated, but they use multiple currencies (the US being the mechanism of choice on the street). The country isn't going through hyper inflation, only the currency. So if they want to use their currency...they must contract the money supply with a re de nomination.

Once all of the hyper inflated currency (any note without the 3 languages on them) are pulled in they can reset the balance. Simple as that.

[Carrello]

After the RV, I could afford $6 a gallon gas.

With the wars to protect oil producing countries, we are paying more than $6.00 a gallon right now.

[DinarChiTown]

Of course Iraq has a lot of oil but the currency circulation need to be greatly reduced first before there is a RV its not rocket science people.

AKA, RD then RV. This is what will happen folks...sucks.

[HopefulTxn]

Iraq has long term goals & aspirations of a ID world currency equal to the Dollar or Sterling in value & prestige. Iraq is also negotiating with the Gulf States for a one Gulf states Dinar. The ID would have to strengthen to roughly the same rate as the KD in order for that to happen. When that happens, China & Russia will call for the end of the Pertodollar in OPEC trading & insist on Rubles, Yuan & Gulf States currency in trading for oil.

Why would Iraq have to have a currency rate close to Kuwait's for that to happen?

The GCC is made up of Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. The first three do have currency exchange values from $2.59 to $3.63 - but the other three countries are all right at $0.27.

The ruble and the yuan have convertibility restrictions/issues which would keep many people from wanting it to be the next desired currency for oil transactions.

[genevieve]

That too I think is another point of confusion, how to contract the money supply. If they RD then that 30 Trillion becomes a very manageable and more realistic 30 Billion which at 1 to 1 with the U.S. dollar like Iraq says they want is then 30 Billion dollars and not the astronomical and impossible figure of 30 Trillion, from 30 Billion their economy has room to grow and the Dinar should become stable. Some folks are insisting the plan is to just physically remove the large denominations from circulation to contract the money supply but that is not only not what Iraq says they are doing but it would be unrealistic, they would need to physically remove 29, 970,000,000,000 Dinar from circulation and leave the 30,000,000,000 which at it's current exchange rate would leave them broke until the change is complete. While it could be argued they could RV a small amount at a time as the money supply was reduced the problems encountered with such an endeavor would be a nightmare, not the least of which is we would all quickly see what they were doing and buy up Dinar to wait on the next RV step. The thing is they say they are going to RD, and so far nothing indicates otherwise, and this easily solves the bloated money supply problem so why would they not do what they are plainly say they are going to do? Explanations abound for ideas of how they could do it but these are just ideas and Iraq has not hinted at doing any of them, they are mostly just wishful thinking anyway and that 30 TRILLION Dinar in circulation is a sticking point that somehow gets overlooked or explained away with an overly simplistic approach that makes little or no sense.

Nice break down, but for the record I didn't say anything about only the 000's nor did it say it has to be a 1 to 1. The question I ask myself is, what amount would be needed in circulation to make the USD undesirable? Iraq can set the re denomination % for any of the notes, so it's sure going to be interesting to see how they do it. Heck, they can give you 250 new notes for an old 25k, and decide to give you 1 dinar for an old 1000. It's a policy driven decision that I bet no guru is privy to.

It's way above my pay grade, but sure fun to speculate about.

Why would Iraq have to have a currency rate close to Kuwait's for that to happen?

The GCC is made up of Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. The first three do have currency exchange values from $2.59 to $3.63 - but the other three countries are all right at $0.27.

The ruble and the yuan have convertibility restrictions/issues which would keep many people from wanting it to be the next desired currency for oil transactions.

I agree Hopeful, Kuwait has always been the biggest pumping point in this investment, and is made up loads of false information.

This still goes back to Kuwait having roughly 3 million folks and Iraq having roughly 30. They don't need the same amount of currency in circulation, hence each note has more value.

Supply and demand.

[Luigi1]

With the wars to protect oil producing countries, we are paying more than $6.00 a gallon right now.

Yes. Bush was right when he said the Iraq war would pay for itself...each & every time we top off our tanks.

[rider460]

I don't think anyone questions the fact Iraq is a country of great wealth, and can only grow going forward.

An RV has to do with making the purchasing power of the currency increase, which can only happen when the currency in circulation is reduced.

Put it this way, what is their current country worth? Now take that and increase the value of the country so that the 1170 becomes .01 USD without reducing the currency in circulation.

Their economy would have to raise 1000's of trillions for an RV to happen with that logic. The currency is not a stock ticket, it's basically (yes it's deeper than this) just a mechanism to be used on the streets.

If the GOI wants the Iraqis to use the dinar the money supply must be contracted which in turn will raise it's value. Simple Supply and demand.

You got it supply and damand. Hoewever they can ask what they want for the Dinar, doesnt mean they will get that amount for them.

[marknet73]

Yeah, how can they have a $3 or $5 RV when Saudi Arabia's rate is only .27? They got a lot of work to do to get to where Saudi Arabia is, mainly by reducing the amount in circulation. I'd rather see .10 tomorrow or next month instead of $5 predictions that'll never happen.

[zul]

I dont understand why people keep talking about 30 trillion once RV...

The amount of 30 trillion will be greatly reduced...once delete 3 zeros is pased by the parliament.

In fact, CBI has been 'deleting 3 zeros' via daily auctions. CBI has also been removing dinar from circulation by offering higher interest rates for IQD deposits. And they can do this without affecting the market..because generally their daily transactions are mostly in USD.

[luckyone]

A friend of mine that I was in the army and deployed to I raq in 2004 with emailed me the other day because he left Iraq a few days ago and is in Kuwait. We both have dinar as for most US troops coming from there. I was asking him if he has heard anthing related to an RV or RD and aa possible time. He told me as for a time that is sealed and no one knows, but as far as an RV he said there are a few rumors going around that contractors have talked about. He said he has heard that only way Iraq will RV instead of RD is if its really low and for a short peoriod of time to get those high notes off the market. Someone told him that it would be no where near what most are expecting, with it being around 400-600 dinar to 1USD till the time frame is up, after that larger notes are useless and the rate should climb fast after that. He said it would be like an RV and RD all in one, but told me that it was all hearsay and didn't mean this is what would happen. But several of these contractors work for KBR, so they hear a lot. If this is the case then I'll just cashout and buy new dinar at the low price and hold it till it goes up, but a contractor told him that an RV any higher then .01 to .10 USD to 1 dinar is very unlikely.

[zul]

The 30 Trillion is not a problem after a RD, that's the whole point. Once the RD is done (IF it's done) then the 30 Trillion becomes 30 Billion and then a RV of even $3 is not far fetched at all but that means no overnight millions for us of course. It should be apparent by now to all but the most die-hards that overnight millions on a few hundred investment never was in the works anyway and was only a dream conjured up by rumor and kept alive by the pumpers. This does not mean however this is all a waste and if we start to look at it realistically we may not see millions in our near future but it is still very possible this thing could turn into gold anyway, just not nearly as much as we had at first hoped for.

30 billion IQD for 30 million Iraqis @ abt 1,000 dinar per person. Do you think that would be enough..? for a cash society like Iraq..?

And how do you supose, CBI is going to pull out all the USD from their market...amounting to more than 150 billion USD ( thanks to the CBI auctions done since 2006 averaging 150 million USD/ a day). 30 Bilion IQD is roughly worth about 25billion USD?

You cannot LOP 30 trillion to 30 billion and then RV to 3 dollar at the same time, RV and LOP are two different processes. Nvr been done before. You need to have a window period for the completion of RD(LOP) process before you can change or RV your currency. Turkey took 5 yrs.

[luckyone]

That's what I was thinking too, the fact remains that no matter how well Iraq's economy does it would still mean having the equivalent of 30 Trillion U.S. Dollars in circulation if it were to RV at 1 to 1 without RDing first. Can they do this? Some people seem to think so but it makes no sense to me.

Just like I said in an earlier post. I have a friend that is in Kuwait, just coming out of Iraq and has heard a lot of rumors in the last few weeks from contractors. He heard that the highest Iraq would RV without a RD first is .01 to .10 USD to 1 IQD, and most likely lower then that just to get the 000 notes in, and replace for new lower dominations, and investors can buy more at the higher rate(which means money for Iraq)unless you just sell out. Then after this is completed they can RV at a higher amount, but like I also said earlier this is all just hear-say.

[Anti This Anti That]

Iraq can support an RV over 10 dollars if they want. For all the nay sayers, it will be digital, so go read Modern Money Mechanics you might see how that will come down.

[HopefulTxn]

Iraq can support an RV over 10 dollars if they want. For all the nay sayers, it will be digital, so go read Modern Money Mechanics you might see how that will come down.

Sounds like someone has been listening to the pumper gurus for too long...

It doesn't matter whether currency is in physical form or in digital form, the central bank that controls it has to validate the value the whole system in order for anyone, including their own citizens to accept the value they claim.

[Anti This Anti That]

Please explain to me why Iraq (which has an M2 of around 63 trillion dinar) can support an RV over 10 dollars (equalling an M2 of around 630 trillion USD, which is vastly more than the entire rest of the planet combined).

Saying "it will be digital" doesn't quite cut it in way of an explanation.

Read Modern Money Mechanics. They will be doing the same thing the crooks at the federal reserve have been doing for over an hundred years.

Exactly right but obviously some people just don't have a clue and they think that just because the notes are digital and don't physically exist then Iraq can just punch in any number they want, I have a cousin that believes that BS- but then he believes Okie too! Digital or physical notes makes no difference at all and they can no more create more Digital money than they can print more physical notes, it's still more inflation! Reminds me of the old joke about the little old lady who could not understand why the bank was calling her about a bounced check, she tells them "but that can't be right I still have checks left in my checkbook"! Saying "it's going to be digital money so that solves the problem" shows a total lack of monetary understanding on a par with the checkbook joke.

I have many clues.

Sounds like someone has been listening to the pumper gurus for too long...

It doesn't matter whether currency is in physical form or in digital form, the central bank that controls it has to validate the value the whole system in order for anyone, including their own citizens to accept the value they claim.

I don't follow those low lifes, nor do I listen to them.

Exactly, and another example would be a credit card. Most of us carry credit and/or debit cards and that's "digital" or electronic money but that does not mean we can just spend what we like with them! Saying Iraq can RV to any amount they want just because it will be digital money would be the same as saying it would make no difference how much you spend using a credit card since no physical cash is involved.

From the way you guys talk, you don't think there will be an RV. If I was as negative as some on this website, I would go ahead and sell my dinar and move on to something else. Why do you people not do that? I can answer that for you, because really you know it will RV, you just want to argue, and appear to be more wise than others. LOL!

Futhermore if you guys would do your math, you would see Iraq is lying about what they have, and more than likely have half a dozen sets of books. According to the time frame Iraq has been removeing, deleting the zero's from the population in Iraq, there is around 4 trillion left, and numbers don't lie if you do the math.

[Luigi1]

Read Modern Money Mechanics. They will be doing the same thing the crooks at the federal reserve have been doing for over an hundred years.

I have many clues.

I don't follow those low lifes, nor do I listen to them.

From the way you guys talk, you don't think there will be an RV. If I was as negative as some on this website, I would go ahead and sell my dinar and move on to something else. Why do you people not do that? I can answer that for you, because really you know it will RV, you just want to argue, and appear to be more wise than others. LOL!

Futhermore if you guys would do your math, you would see Iraq is lying about what they have, and more than likely have half a dozen sets of books. According to the time frame Iraq has been removeing, deleting the zero's from the population in Iraq, there is around 4 trillion left, and numbers don't lie if you do the math.

I believe it will be a LOP at first. We won't lose a thing as one million ID becomes one thousand ID worth roughly $1,000 USD at 1 to 1 ratio, or about what our original investment was. At some point in time the ID will float or Re-RV after the LOP. It may take another two years to allow the ID to appreciate to a higher exchange rate. Shabibi hinted this would be a two year process. There is money to be made off of this investment but it won't happen overnight nor will we all the sudden wake up millionaires one morning. Just being honest. No pumping.

[Anti This Anti That]

If you still think Iraq can RV to any amount they want just because they are going to use "Digital" money then you definitely DON'T have a clue! It makes no difference whether it's physical notes or digital money just as in that credit card example. If they could RV to even $1 then the 30 Trillion dollars that would result is simply impossible whether it be electronic or physical notes! What you are saying is simply rediculous, by that line of thinking everyone could just get a debit or credit card and spend all the "Digital" money they want and we would all be rich! It's is no different for a national economy and those electronic notes only represent digital versions of physical notes and a country can no more issue more electronic money than they can issue more physical notes, inflation is still inflation whether it be physical or electronic.

If you believe that garbage, then why did you get involved with the dinar in the first place? There are less than 4 trillion in circulation there, not 30 trillion.

[HopefulTxn]

If you believe that garbage, then why did you get involved with the dinar in the first place? There are less than 4 trillion in circulation there, not 30 trillion.

The only place that the 4 trillion number has shown up is in a one or two articles. The 25-30 trillion amount has shown up in the vast majority of articles, and is also supported by the CBI financials as well as the information available from the IMF.

Also, you have neglected to provide any reasoning to your support your claim that Iraq can support an RV of $10. They tried something similar, when they refused to acknowledge the true value of the dinar, instead they kept the $3.22 value which nobody (not even their own merchants) acknowledged. And that was before Saddam even stepped foot into Kuwait or any sanctions were placed upon them.

[speculatorsRIDE]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

No more weight should be given to the numbers being reported by the CBI then should be given to the numbers reported by the US Federal Reserve. The only numbers that will ever be given are those that make the rest of the figures work. Simply put, you will only see what the government wants you to see. If you can't wrap your mind around this premise then believe what ever you wish.

Iraq can and will RV at whatever rate they decide to. Shabbibi stated in Wyoming that he could RV at a rate of $12.00 and sustain it. The man is one of the most respected economists in the world. I will take what he says at face value. Each of you can make your own decisions on what you will or won't believe.

Arguing back and forth and trying to convince others is fools play. All we can do is sit back and see which way they decide to go with it. I guarantee you it will be which ever way will benefit Iraq the most. Other then that, there are no guarantees.

Read more:

[HopefulTxn]

Iraq can and will RV at whatever rate they decide to. Shabbibi stated in Wyoming that he could RV at a rate of $12.00 and sustain it. The man is one of the most respected economists in the world. I will take what he says at face value. Each of you can make your own decisions on what you will or won't believe.

Please show where Shabibi stated this $12 stuff... It can see where that may have been stated in chats and rumors, but where is an actual statement from Shabibi making this claim?