dinarck Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Let me see if I have this correct...Check my math... Are you saying 3 zeros off the currency making a 25K into 25 dinars Are you saying 3 zeros off the rate making .00086 into .86 ???? If so check my math... 25k x .00086 = $21.50 Knock off the zeros from the note and the rate and the math is like this.. 25 x.86 =$21.50 (I know, I used .86) So now I will use (1)....25 x 1 = 25 So far am I right? (you say above "10 IQD = 10 USD... Then you say "The Iraqi goes in and exchanges three 25K for three 25 dinars"....(In this scenario they still have to carry the same abount of bills because you are saying they are equal...?) Or am I misssing something? Now what happens? Anything? That would mean in the scenario above 1 dinar is .86,(or 1 as above) or so...1 USD = 1 IQD... Did I do this right???? I like this...If I did it right...? Oh! I forgot...You are NOT a jerk... Yeah. Not only am I saying it but the CBI is saying it. Just recently we had an article were we were told they would remove the zeros and come in at 100. I take that to mean 1.00 USD. Of course everyone screamed GO RV without even taking into account the remove three zeros part. So really if you think about it we would make 3.00 or so per 25,000 dinar note, the only problem is we would suddenly have 1000 time less dinar. Haha. O well, still a little bit of coin and the IQD will rise in the future. Like I have said before, it only makes sense to come it at 1.00 after RD to make transactions easier. That is the whole point of a RD. By the way you are not misssing anything. The Iraqi will have to carry the same amount of bills but they won't have 000. Really it would be the same as we do in the US. Prices will be adjusted so an Iraqi could have 100 dinar in his wallet and make it through the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinarck Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Nani? Thank you for your thoughts and your question. A simple answer to your curiosity is yes, I still hold IQD. Yes, from researching both aspects of this speculation, and from historical data, there is indeed a strong and even likely prospect of a redenomination, at least based upon this historical data, and how countries handled various economic challenges in regards to their countries currency. A point that needs to be understood that is often excluded from a question or accusation such as this, is that most of us who have purchased IQD did so originally based on the same amount of often mis-information and fabricated details as any one else did. Over time, some decided to research this speculation OUTSIDE of the dinar related forums, mainly due to the constant lies that are spread and are at the root cause of so much division on forums such as these, and it was becoming too evident that those who originated these rumors had ulterior motives. They smelled both money to be made, and they realized how gullible we can ALL be at some point. Too many were taken advantage of and some decided to look elsewhere for as much factual verifiable data as is available. In that process, many of us were beginning to see several issues that were very troubling. In fact, many of these same issues are the very reason that some respected financial analysts, reporters, etc., have concluded that the IQD is/was a "scam". They have a very logical reason to think this, all they would have had to do is visit a few dinar related forums, and read some of the information that is posted, and it immediately raises more than a few red flags. Why? Because anything that reaches the point of having to be supported by rumor and fabricated details, is generally considered shaky, faulty, or an outright "scam". At least this is also what history of such types of speculation has revealed. The IQD speculation is NOT a "scam". What IS the "scam" is what this has been made into and declared over time, that has often blindly been accepted as fact. It has gone from the potential of possibly being another "Kuwait" style currency gain of buying low and selling high, to Iraq some how being looked at or viewed as being the "salvation of the worlds economies". Again, another reason so many have proclaimed this as one of the biggest internet scams ever. I do not hold that against them for such thinking due to the circus that his has become. Please understand, and properly view the discussions regarding RD, etc., do not come from a perspective of being "negative" as you and so many love to accuse. In fact for a moment, forget about anything regarding a 'lop' which is not really appropriate terminology, and consider the reason why even the attempt to understand it immediately draws anger and accusations. It is simply this way because at one time or another, we ALL bought into the hype, the frenzy and the rumors, and over time, much frustration settled in due to constantly being disappointed, disgruntled, and plain upset that all the things the 'gurus' had not just stated, but PROMISED had failed every single time to be of any value...other than a definite boost to the sales of IQD. It is a classic example of catering to peoples greed, and manipulating that greed by feeding it for the purpose of selling a currency. Out of this same frustration, comes the anger pointed and directed at the WRONG people. It is not the folks who decided to think for themselves that are the problem here, nor have those folks who began to think for themselves do anything wrong. It is called being prudent, open to understanding both sides, so one can decide for themselves what has value, and what does not. The anger issue comes from anything that disagrees with ones belief, or mindset, and the error within that mindset is rooted in being told something that may not have been the truth or may have been twisted to the point of outright lie. Someone is going to have to take the brunt force of all the frustration, and those who have tried to share the other side of this speculation are a wonderful target, because the information itself is viewed as being a "threat" to their belief and what they have come to believe is truth. It really is not any simpler that this Nani. You call it being 'negative' or 'negativity'. How is it possible to make this claim and direct it at a few who are sincere in their motive of presenting the other side that no guru will address? How is it being 'negative' to debunk and expose a lie with the intent of trying to HELP each other maybe to wake up and understand that things may not work out as we had been told? Would you agree that the true areas of 'negativity' are in those that refuse to speak the truth, that willingly fabricate and lie in order to take advantage of someone emotionally and financially for years? How is it that this one area alone is viewed as "positive", and when someone questions it with the desire to learn and understand, then shares what they have learned be viewed as presenting 'negativity'? Do you see how utterly twisted this kind of thinking has become? In my opinion, the most negative posts are the ones that continue to lie and manipulate people. This is what appears to be acceptable and desired, and yet you accuse those who have looked at both possibilities of this speculation as being the culprits of division and discord and being 'negative'? Is it positive to just tell someone those things they WANT to hear, instead of trying to be objective and maybe assisting one of us to not potentially being deceived or taken advantage of by someones marketing tricks? Instead of accusing those who research and have some balance in their perspective as being 'delusional', why not rather we be honest and admit that the only delusional train of thought that exists here is the unwillingness to consider anything other than what is spoon fed to the masses of IQD holders? Is not the continuation of daily and weekly clinging to lies and sales tactics truly the delusional aspect of this speculation? But I assume that just the mention of this possibility is also being 'negative'? The accusations and train of thought you have presented appear at least to me, to be disingenuous at best and the attempt to cause even more of a divide and chasm between members here by means of labels and false assumptions at worst. I sincerely hope that is not the case. I tend to think that not all, but the majority of folks here are good people who in fact desire to learn together with other members and not be categorized and disposed of via means of this kind of thinking that you propose. We are after all, in this speculation together, whether we agree on every point or not with each other, is it asking too much that we learn to respect each others opinions, research, ideas, backgrounds without having to resort to personal attacks, personal dislikes, and school play ground behavior along with the usual name calling and accusations that offer nothing of value to this board other than to cause division that really does not exist other than to those who feel threatened? Should not we all admit and maintain the fact that this is still nothing more than pure speculation, that there are not now, nor have there ever been any guarantees with this? If we can accept this, and treat it as such, as we continue to try to the very best of our abilities to learn together so we may be able to discern fact from fiction, truth from hype, I think we could be the most informed and most content Iraqi dinar related forum on the internet. But if we continue down this path of pointing fingers at those who have differing opinions, categorizing them into oblivion, accusing them of being 'negative' or 'delusional', refusing to answer pinpoint and sincere questions with more than just the standard response based upon faulty information, then we will not endure this speculation to the end. Hopefully we will ALL be able to share in the potential rewards together, maybe even be pleasantly surprised at the overall outcome without destroying each other in the process. If we can accomplish this as a group, then I would call that a very positive outcome. If we can disregard the supposed 'intel' that keeps being spread here, and focus on what we can all accomplish together by being informed and prepared, then we have already received something that money could never buy. Anything in addition to this accomplishment will be icing on the cake While many other forums are falling apart due to much of the above insanity, why can we not rise above the nonsense and actually learn and work together and interact together without feeling threatened or without hiding behind a computer screen to spew comments that would never be said in person, and that contribute nothing to this site. I personally think we CAN indeed accomplish this, but not without leaving our preconceived notions and ego at the sign in prompt. Just my opinion Nani? Have a peaceful weekend All my best! Jim --- WOW!!!! All I can say is WOW!!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticaldinar Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) Personally, I cash in every 000 I have for a nickel or dime/dinar. But it'll take closer to three bucks to get these lowers! I think adding value to currency reduces money supply, as a rule. There is just less paper needed. Ahhh,and here is the problem.Many feel that adding value will affect the currency in Iraq. Look at it like this,What if the dollar makes a huge jump on the Euro tomorrow?Will I then be able to go to the grocery store and purchase more food with a hundred dollar bill?Nope.However,if the dollar makes a huge jump on the Euro and I am having my groceries imported from Europe,then I have made a great gain because of the value increase.What are we hoping to see some day? The International Exchange rate increase of the dinar.That will not affect the 90% of dinar that is in Iraq.You keep seeing people say "oh the dinar has to rv because the poor Iraqi people deserve to have their in pocket money worth more".Well the truth is,that in pocket money won't be affected unless that citizen is purchasing goods out of country. The type of value added that we are hoping to see is on the exchange rate,which will not affect the HIGHLY overinflated money supply. Edited June 26, 2011 by skepticaldinar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmall Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Every thing you need to know about ReDenomination. However, doesn't address a LOP http://www.reconversionbcv.org.ve/englishversion/pdf/fundamentalscurrencyredenomination.pdf Thanks for posting this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legolas Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Nani? Thank you for your thoughts and your question. A simple answer to your curiosity is yes, I still hold IQD. Yes, from researching both aspects of this speculation, and from historical data, there is indeed a strong and even likely prospect of a redenomination, at least based upon this historical data, and how countries handled various economic challenges in regards to their countries currency. A point that needs to be understood that is often excluded from a question or accusation such as this, is that most of us who have purchased IQD did so originally based on the same amount of often mis-information and fabricated details as any one else did. Over time, some decided to research this speculation OUTSIDE of the dinar related forums, mainly due to the constant lies that are spread and are at the root cause of so much division on forums such as these, and it was becoming too evident that those who originated these rumors had ulterior motives. They smelled both money to be made, and they realized how gullible we can ALL be at some point. Too many were taken advantage of and some decided to look elsewhere for as much factual verifiable data as is available. In that process, many of us were beginning to see several issues that were very troubling. In fact, many of these same issues are the very reason that some respected financial analysts, reporters, etc., have concluded that the IQD is/was a "scam". They have a very logical reason to think this, all they would have had to do is visit a few dinar related forums, and read some of the information that is posted, and it immediately raises more than a few red flags. Why? Because anything that reaches the point of having to be supported by rumor and fabricated details, is generally considered shaky, faulty, or an outright "scam". At least this is also what history of such types of speculation has revealed. The IQD speculation is NOT a "scam". What IS the "scam" is what this has been made into and declared over time, that has often blindly been accepted as fact. It has gone from the potential of possibly being another "Kuwait" style currency gain of buying low and selling high, to Iraq some how being looked at or viewed as being the "salvation of the worlds economies". Again, another reason so many have proclaimed this as one of the biggest internet scams ever. I do not hold that against them for such thinking due to the circus that his has become. Please understand, and properly view the discussions regarding RD, etc., do not come from a perspective of being "negative" as you and so many love to accuse. In fact for a moment, forget about anything regarding a 'lop' which is not really appropriate terminology, and consider the reason why even the attempt to understand it immediately draws anger and accusations. It is simply this way because at one time or another, we ALL bought into the hype, the frenzy and the rumors, and over time, much frustration settled in due to constantly being disappointed, disgruntled, and plain upset that all the things the 'gurus' had not just stated, but PROMISED had failed every single time to be of any value...other than a definite boost to the sales of IQD. It is a classic example of catering to peoples greed, and manipulating that greed by feeding it for the purpose of selling a currency. Out of this same frustration, comes the anger pointed and directed at the WRONG people. It is not the folks who decided to think for themselves that are the problem here, nor have those folks who began to think for themselves do anything wrong. It is called being prudent, open to understanding both sides, so one can decide for themselves what has value, and what does not. The anger issue comes from anything that disagrees with ones belief, or mindset, and the error within that mindset is rooted in being told something that may not have been the truth or may have been twisted to the point of outright lie. Someone is going to have to take the brunt force of all the frustration, and those who have tried to share the other side of this speculation are a wonderful target, because the information itself is viewed as being a "threat" to their belief and what they have come to believe is truth. It really is not any simpler that this Nani. You call it being 'negative' or 'negativity'. How is it possible to make this claim and direct it at a few who are sincere in their motive of presenting the other side that no guru will address? How is it being 'negative' to debunk and expose a lie with the intent of trying to HELP each other maybe to wake up and understand that things may not work out as we had been told? Would you agree that the true areas of 'negativity' are in those that refuse to speak the truth, that willingly fabricate and lie in order to take advantage of someone emotionally and financially for years? How is it that this one area alone is viewed as "positive", and when someone questions it with the desire to learn and understand, then shares what they have learned be viewed as presenting 'negativity'? Do you see how utterly twisted this kind of thinking has become? In my opinion, the most negative posts are the ones that continue to lie and manipulate people. This is what appears to be acceptable and desired, and yet you accuse those who have looked at both possibilities of this speculation as being the culprits of division and discord and being 'negative'? Is it positive to just tell someone those things they WANT to hear, instead of trying to be objective and maybe assisting one of us to not potentially being deceived or taken advantage of by someones marketing tricks? Instead of accusing those who research and have some balance in their perspective as being 'delusional', why not rather we be honest and admit that the only delusional train of thought that exists here is the unwillingness to consider anything other than what is spoon fed to the masses of IQD holders? Is not the continuation of daily and weekly clinging to lies and sales tactics truly the delusional aspect of this speculation? But I assume that just the mention of this possibility is also being 'negative'? The accusations and train of thought you have presented appear at least to me, to be disingenuous at best and the attempt to cause even more of a divide and chasm between members here by means of labels and false assumptions at worst. I sincerely hope that is not the case. I tend to think that not all, but the majority of folks here are good people who in fact desire to learn together with other members and not be categorized and disposed of via means of this kind of thinking that you propose. We are after all, in this speculation together, whether we agree on every point or not with each other, is it asking too much that we learn to respect each others opinions, research, ideas, backgrounds without having to resort to personal attacks, personal dislikes, and school play ground behavior along with the usual name calling and accusations that offer nothing of value to this board other than to cause division that really does not exist other than to those who feel threatened? Should not we all admit and maintain the fact that this is still nothing more than pure speculation, that there are not now, nor have there ever been any guarantees with this? If we can accept this, and treat it as such, as we continue to try to the very best of our abilities to learn together so we may be able to discern fact from fiction, truth from hype, I think we could be the most informed and most content Iraqi dinar related forum on the internet. But if we continue down this path of pointing fingers at those who have differing opinions, categorizing them into oblivion, accusing them of being 'negative' or 'delusional', refusing to answer pinpoint and sincere questions with more than just the standard response based upon faulty information, then we will not endure this speculation to the end. Hopefully we will ALL be able to share in the potential rewards together, maybe even be pleasantly surprised at the overall outcome without destroying each other in the process. If we can accomplish this as a group, then I would call that a very positive outcome. If we can disregard the supposed 'intel' that keeps being spread here, and focus on what we can all accomplish together by being informed and prepared, then we have already received something that money could never buy. Anything in addition to this accomplishment will be icing on the cake While many other forums are falling apart due to much of the above insanity, why can we not rise above the nonsense and actually learn and work together and interact together without feeling threatened or without hiding behind a computer screen to spew comments that would never be said in person, and that contribute nothing to this site. I personally think we CAN indeed accomplish this, but not without leaving our preconceived notions and ego at the sign in prompt. Just my opinion Nani? Have a peaceful weekend All my best! Jim --- I'm amazed and terribly disappointed that Jim's response to this thread hasn't received more than just a "WOW," although Dinarck had the correct reaction. What he so eloquently expressed was the absolute, indisputable truth, yet not a single "negativity basher" bothered to respond to it. That in itself is very telling. The human brain is an amazing little pile of goo. Once it is successfully convinced of a particular concept, it is amazingly difficult to introduce a new and more logical one. This applies to many more subjects than just our Dinar investment. The gurus and pumpers have been unbelievably successful at what they do, and there's no denying it. They've been doing it for more than 5 years now, and despite the fact that there is overwhelming evidence readily available to prove beyond ANY doubt that they have been wrong, not 99%, but 100% of the time, people still defend them and still believe that "one of these days" they're going to be right. In virtually any other situation, if a person lies to you once, you're going to be angry, but you "might" give them a second chance. After the second time, their credibility would be reduced to zero. Yet here we are, after being lied to hundreds upon hundreds of times, STILL having to explain this "perceived negativity." In many cases, it's the SAME people lying to you hundreds of times. In others, it's NEW names providing the same information, but it is still the same nonsense. Come on gang.....HOW MANY TIMES does this have to happen before reality flips that switch in your brain which allows you to begin to think rationally and do some honest evaluation of the evidence? It's not like these are "hit and run" incidents. The posts by these people are retained in the archives of nearly all of these websites, and by now there are literally THOUSANDS of them. Take the time to READ and analyze them instead of becoming so overcome by emotion, desperation or greed that you can't see your hand in front of your face. Stop allowing your thoughts to be manipulated. THINK and RESEARCH!! Be a part of the solution, not the problem. The latest tool of the pumpers is the "CONFERENCE CALL." There have now been literally hundreds of them. Admittedly, the information put forward in these calls always "sounds" credible. But ask yourselves.......has it EVER ONCE been accurate? The answer is a resounding NO......it hasn't. So why on earth would you continue to believe a single word of what they have to say......and over and over and over again. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. To be critical and angry at those who attempt to point out the obvious is inexcusable, unless of course you are one of the pumpers and feel threatened by their rational explanations. It's long past time that everyone realize that ALL of the information, and ALL of the dates have been wrong. More importantly, these have not been isolated incidents. There are literally THOUSANDS of them now. How many more do there have to be before people get angry and say "ENOUGH!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 I'm amazed and terribly disappointed that Jim's response to this thread hasn't received more than just a "WOW," although Dinarck had the correct reaction. What he so eloquently expressed was the absolute, indisputable truth, yet not a single "negativity basher" bothered to respond to it. That in itself is very telling. The human brain is an amazing little pile of goo. Once it is successfully convinced of a particular concept, it is amazingly difficult to introduce a new and more logical one. This applies to many more subjects than just our Dinar investment. The gurus and pumpers have been unbelievably successful at what they do, and there's no denying it. They've been doing it for more than 5 years now, and despite the fact that there is overwhelming evidence readily available to prove beyond ANY doubt that they have been wrong, not 99%, but 100% of the time, people still defend them and still believe that "one of these days" they're going to be right. In virtually any other situation, if a person lies to you once, you're going to be angry, but you "might" give them a second chance. After the second time, their credibility would be reduced to zero. Yet here we are, after being lied to hundreds upon hundreds of times, STILL having to explain this "perceived negativity." In many cases, it's the SAME people lying to you hundreds of times. In others, it's NEW names providing the same information, but it is still the same nonsense. Come on gang.....HOW MANY TIMES does this have to happen before reality flips that switch in your brain which allows you to begin to think rationally and do some honest evaluation of the evidence? It's not like these are "hit and run" incidents. The posts by these people are retained in the archives of nearly all of these websites, and by now there are literally THOUSANDS of them. Take the time to READ and analyze them instead of becoming so overcome by emotion, desperation or greed that you can't see your hand in front of your face. Stop allowing your thoughts to be manipulated. THINK and RESEARCH!! Be a part of the solution, not the problem. The latest tool of the pumpers is the "CONFERENCE CALL." There have now been literally hundreds of them. Admittedly, the information put forward in these calls always "sounds" credible. But ask yourselves.......has it EVER ONCE been accurate? The answer is a resounding NO......it hasn't. So why on earth would you continue to believe a single word of what they have to say......and over and over and over again. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. To be critical and angry at those who attempt to point out the obvious is inexcusable, unless of course you are one of the pumpers and feel threatened by their rational explanations. It's long past time that everyone realize that ALL of the information, and ALL of the dates have been wrong. More importantly, these have not been isolated incidents. There are literally THOUSANDS of them now. How many more do there have to be before people get angry and say "ENOUGH!" Good post Legolas!!! Its pretty clear why the "negativity bashers" havent responded......clear as day.....And unfortunately until this ride is over, people will continue to put faith into the garbage that the gurus spew from day to day....it seems here common sense and logic doesnt prevail over fairy tales and unrealistic dreams......its funny how the ones who actually read and follow the gurus know that their dates and rates are off and they are completely wrong, but if anything is said that solidifies this RV or that might talk about how the negative side of this investment is impossible, they believe it whole heartedly and hang on to it as if its the word of god.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiNaR DoCtOr Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 I would like to first state that I do not think a LOP is impossible, but I have two reservations preventing me from believing it is imminent. First, it is always discussed in article with Saleh's input or others as the most reasonable way to maintain the stability of the currency. If they are so sure about this, then why did they not LOP at the end of 2010? In February 2010 XE.com went from a link about IQD claiming it was a scam to IQD will re-denominate at the end of 2010. A re-demonination of the currency would not require as much planning and adjustments of debt held by other countries as a revaluation. I am not saying it doesn't require planning. If there debt was demoniated in USD (or other currency) and they revalue, they have to find less IQD to exchange and pay the debt, thereby making Iraq's debt holders a little more squirmy and requiring more planning and communication. So re-denomination appears, in my opinion, to require less of that planning (or an easier solution for the CBI and others like Keepm). What throughout 2010 would have prevented this? Why could they not follow through? The second thing that I guess I have hope about is a conversation (which I have posted before) that I had with a central bank president. In my conversation I established that he had not direct knowledge with Iraq. My question then regarded dropping zeros off the currency. He said it is done for high inflation (academically studied, so that is why he knows that). He mentioned the very common case study of Turkey and their high inflation. He asked me if I knew what Iraq's inflation was, which I replied (back inFebruary before I did more research) around 14%. He responded that their inflation seemed low for the region and that he did not see (from his experience) the need for a re-denomination. Keyenes, which I am sure many of the talented folks at DV know, said that inflation is almost always a monetary phenomenon. Sure, they have a ridiculous amount of currency, but why no inflation? Could it be that their pre-historic (or as John Taylor describes a model - T) non-electronic payment system, thereby all currency is physical? The CBI could manage that through daily cash auctions. Again, I am not saying LOP impossible, because that would be crazy. All I wanted to point out is that there are some reasons that make me wonder what the hold up would be to a LOP. My best guess and trying to wear the realistic hat would be that they increase the value of IQD incrementally over a longer period of time. I want an RV, which would create many positive things in my opinon for Iraq, but doesn't seem crazy. Of course Saddam was able to devalue their currency 660,000% (John Taylor's Global Financial Warriors), why can't it increase 300,000%) If you read my post, thank you. I would love to hear some educated answers to the questions and reservations I have about LOP. Thank you DV friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiNaR DoCtOr Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 I had some foolish spelling and grammatical errors due to fast typing in my previous post. I meant to say ...Could it be their non-electronic payment system allows for more physical currency. What I wrote was incomplete and I did not see the edit button I have used before. BTW Jim1cor13 always produces wow posts. So does keepm. these guys make DV a place where there is a full spectrum of opinions discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hey bud, have you considered the possibility that what you call, neg basher's , might be the Christians? Have you considered that most of them don't respond anymore because of all the NEGATIVITY? In your post where you explained why you now look at the dinar in the way you do, you said you wanted to get all the possible aspects of it, not just the koolaid side. So I ask you, with all sincerity, Have you even considered the possibility that this IS a spiritual event unfolding, and therefore has nothing to do with normal banking or world governance? And therefore as a spiritual event, have you considered that God just might be calling the shots and can POSSIBLY bring it out at whatever rate he wants that will make Babylon rise to be the world power it is needed to be? Have you considered that the reason most Christians have stopped posting here is because that they know what they have been told and just don't want to argue about it? You so very eloquently explained your point of view, and I sincerely mean that, but before this is all over I wanted you to consider another aspect of not only the dinar but of life. I know that you will see a strait up rv and that it will not be a small number. I know that because the Holy Spirit lives inside of me and has told me not to worry, he's got my back. That is not to say this happened just for us Christians, not at all. It is to say that the Lord is using this world event to also help his children. So end the end what I am truly asking you, keep, and I do so with love is this, Have you considered the condition of your soul? You don't want to get that one wrong bro. Consider the chance that this is all spiritual and then ask yourself, if it is where am I at in the spiritual realm of all this? Please do not take offense to what I am about to say......... This whole religious aspect of the dinar is exactly part of the problem.....you cannot mix religion and emotion with investment and expect to come out ahead.... Not to mention there are some that use religion to their advantage knowing it will get the attention of all those who are so religious and they will believe anything said from these so called religious gurus because they believe since they are a church going person there is no way they would lead us down the wrong path or lie to us.... This investment is NOT about god..... God is not sitting there planning on making you all rich and wealthy......he would consider you rich and wealthy for who you are on the inside and what you do to help your fellow man (which does NOT require you to be monetarily rich) Im not going to go any further into it really.....other then the fact you cannot argue about the facts with religious beliefs....it just doesnt work.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 I would like to first state that I do not think a LOP is impossible, but I have two reservations preventing me from believing it is imminent. First, it is always discussed in article with Saleh's input or others as the most reasonable way to maintain the stability of the currency. If they are so sure about this, then why did they not LOP at the end of 2010? In February 2010 XE.com went from a link about IQD claiming it was a scam to IQD will re-denominate at the end of 2010. A re-demonination of the currency would not require as much planning and adjustments of debt held by other countries as a revaluation. I am not saying it doesn't require planning. If there debt was demoniated in USD (or other currency) and they revalue, they have to find less IQD to exchange and pay the debt, thereby making Iraq's debt holders a little more squirmy and requiring more planning and communication. So re-denomination appears, in my opinion, to require less of that planning (or an easier solution for the CBI and others like Keepm). What throughout 2010 would have prevented this? Why could they not follow through? The second thing that I guess I have hope about is a conversation (which I have posted before) that I had with a central bank president. In my conversation I established that he had not direct knowledge with Iraq. My question then regarded dropping zeros off the currency. He said it is done for high inflation (academically studied, so that is why he knows that). He mentioned the very common case study of Turkey and their high inflation. He asked me if I knew what Iraq's inflation was, which I replied (back inFebruary before I did more research) around 14%. He responded that their inflation seemed low for the region and that he did not see (from his experience) the need for a re-denomination. Keyenes, which I am sure many of the talented folks at DV know, said that inflation is almost always a monetary phenomenon. Sure, they have a ridiculous amount of currency, but why no inflation? Could it be that their pre-historic (or as John Taylor describes a model - T) non-electronic payment system, thereby all currency is physical? The CBI could manage that through daily cash auctions. Again, I am not saying LOP impossible, because that would be crazy. All I wanted to point out is that there are some reasons that make me wonder what the hold up would be to a LOP. My best guess and trying to wear the realistic hat would be that they increase the value of IQD incrementally over a longer period of time. I want an RV, which would create many positive things in my opinon for Iraq, but doesn't seem crazy. Of course Saddam was able to devalue their currency 660,000% (John Taylor's Global Financial Warriors), why can't it increase 300,000%) If you read my post, thank you. I would love to hear some educated answers to the questions and reservations I have about LOP. Thank you DV friends Good post and honest thoughts to ponder..... I think I may be able to help a little.....first off the hold up on a RD.....I know alot would like to believe that it doesnt take much planning and can be done with a stroke of the pen but in fact its just as complicated as a RV.....monetary policy still has to change, most likely a plan of a new currency to take place needs to be addressed, and how everything in the market, across the globe, in the banks, all of that is affected with either a RV or RD......they have been pretty open about this plan of removing the zeros and how long it has taken to get this plan together.......we see how long it takes them to get a freakin govt together so just about anything that requires any kind of planning will not be an overnight thing!! Now addressing the comments of your central bank president.....he is right....hyperinflation is a reason for redenominating.....there are others as well....such as building confidence in the local currency (cause as you all know they still prefer the USD because of the better purchasing power) Still there are other reasons to RD....but lets address the inflation issue (since that seems to be the number one argument against it) When redenominations are done successfully, they are done after periods of hyperinflation have passed, and inflation is better under control (not perfect, but not hyper) This can sometimes be done a decade after hyperinflation has passed......Turkey for example, didnt do it right in the middle of hyperinflation....it most likely would have failed (like Zimbabwe) They did it afterwards....inflation numbers werent perfect, they were still a little high, but they came to the conclusion that they could get it under control and redenominate, and then raise the value of the currency which also helped bring down inflation...... Iraq was able to bring down inflation numbers to single digits by increasing the value of the currency to the now locked rate of 1170....but the problem that still holds true is the inflated money supply from the decades of high inflation.....and its something that has to be dealt with before the rate of the dinar can reach previous levels......even with fractional banking they cannot support a big jump in value of the currency.....not at this point in time.....and it seems the easiest way they see to raise the value of the dinar, is to reduce the money supply by RD, then letting the dinar appreciate in value....with a smaller money supply its easier for them to back a higher value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiNaR DoCtOr Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Keep - I am sure that a re-denomination takes time to implement. Do you by chance know how their debt with other countries would be affected? I know if a country's currency is denominated in USD (mostly likely for Iraq since they have loans through IMF, not sure about non-paris club debt) and their currency is devalued say to half, then they will have to find twice as many dinars to make the exchange and pay the debt. Basically, in the event of a drop of zeros, is it considered a devaluation, therefore making it more difficult for them to pay their creditors? Also, are there case studies a nerd like you can refer a nerd like me to study regarding the re-denomination to build confidence in a currency and not because of inflation. I understand that google and other sources could lead me to answers for my questions, but first step is to see if you could save me some time on a sunny afternoon:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalite Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Keep - I am sure that a re-denomination takes time to implement. Do you by chance know how their debt with other countries would be affected? I know if a country's currency is denominated in USD (mostly likely for Iraq since they have loans through IMF, not sure about non-paris club debt) and their currency is devalued say to half, then they will have to find twice as many dinars to make the exchange and pay the debt. Basically, in the event of a drop of zeros, is it considered a devaluation, therefore making it more difficult for them to pay their creditors? Also, are there case studies a nerd like you can refer a nerd like me to study regarding the re-denomination to build confidence in a currency and not because of inflation. I understand that google and other sources could lead me to answers for my questions, but first step is to see if you could save me some time on a sunny afternoon:-) http://www.unc.edu/~lmosley/APSA%202005.pdf http://www.reconversionbcv.org.ve/englishversion/pdf/fundamentalscurrencyredenomination.pdf Both of the two links are very informative. They are both .PDF files, and you should be able to download for off-line viewing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepmwlknfny Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Keep - I am sure that a re-denomination takes time to implement. Do you by chance know how their debt with other countries would be affected? I know if a country's currency is denominated in USD (mostly likely for Iraq since they have loans through IMF, not sure about non-paris club debt) and their currency is devalued say to half, then they will have to find twice as many dinars to make the exchange and pay the debt. Basically, in the event of a drop of zeros, is it considered a devaluation, therefore making it more difficult for them to pay their creditors? Also, are there case studies a nerd like you can refer a nerd like me to study regarding the re-denomination to build confidence in a currency and not because of inflation. I understand that google and other sources could lead me to answers for my questions, but first step is to see if you could save me some time on a sunny afternoon:-) http://www.unc.edu/~lmosley/APSA%202005.pdf That is a good read on redenominations and how its not all bad.....how it shows stabillity and that mistakes made in monetary policy are taken care of! When your looking at debts to be paid to another nation everything is adjusted......(lets just keep it simple cause im not good at math ) Ok, lets say I am America and you are Iraq......you still owe me the equivalent of 1 USD for whatever reason.....right now that means you would have to pay me 1170 dinar to meet the 1 USD debt you owe me.... If you decide to RD, and then once its finished you are able to set your new exchange rate to be even with the USD, you now only owe me 1 dinar to meet the 1 USD debt you own me.....so in essence you are actually giving me less dinar after the RD because the value of your dinar went up.... Of course the same could be said for a straight up RV....it works both ways but its a reason why I see that a RD is NOT going to hurt Iraq in any shape or form.... http://www.unc.edu/~...APSA%202005.pdf http://www.reconvers...enomination.pdf Both of the two links are very informative. They are both .PDF files, and you should be able to download for off-line viewing.. LOL you beat me to it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiNaR DoCtOr Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Thanks Dalite and Keep for the links. I am going to read through them later after re-planting my vegetables (stupid rabbits) and enjoying some sunshine. Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalite Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 It's all good. I am staying out of the discussion unless I can share a link to address a direct request. I just want to help create awareness, and see if we can unwind some of the tension. I see that others are communicating more and arguing less. It's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the Cat Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Nani? Thank you for your thoughts and your question. A simple answer to your curiosity is yes, I still hold IQD. Yes, from researching both aspects of this speculation, and from historical data, there is indeed a strong and even likely prospect of a redenomination, at least based upon this historical data, and how countries handled various economic challenges in regards to their countries currency. A point that needs to be understood that is often excluded from a question or accusation such as this, is that most of us who have purchased IQD did so originally based on the same amount of often mis-information and fabricated details as any one else did. Over time, some decided to research this speculation OUTSIDE of the dinar related forums, mainly due to the constant lies that are spread and are at the root cause of so much division on forums such as these, and it was becoming too evident that those who originated these rumors had ulterior motives. They smelled both money to be made, and they realized how gullible we can ALL be at some point. Too many were taken advantage of and some decided to look elsewhere for as much factual verifiable data as is available. In that process, many of us were beginning to see several issues that were very troubling. In fact, many of these same issues are the very reason that some respected financial analysts, reporters, etc., have concluded that the IQD is/was a "scam". They have a very logical reason to think this, all they would have had to do is visit a few dinar related forums, and read some of the information that is posted, and it immediately raises more than a few red flags. Why? Because anything that reaches the point of having to be supported by rumor and fabricated details, is generally considered shaky, faulty, or an outright "scam". At least this is also what history of such types of speculation has revealed. The IQD speculation is NOT a "scam". What IS the "scam" is what this has been made into and declared over time, that has often blindly been accepted as fact. It has gone from the potential of possibly being another "Kuwait" style currency gain of buying low and selling high, to Iraq some how being looked at or viewed as being the "salvation of the worlds economies". Again, another reason so many have proclaimed this as one of the biggest internet scams ever. I do not hold that against them for such thinking due to the circus that his has become. Please understand, and properly view the discussions regarding RD, etc., do not come from a perspective of being "negative" as you and so many love to accuse. In fact for a moment, forget about anything regarding a 'lop' which is not really appropriate terminology, and consider the reason why even the attempt to understand it immediately draws anger and accusations. It is simply this way because at one time or another, we ALL bought into the hype, the frenzy and the rumors, and over time, much frustration settled in due to constantly being disappointed, disgruntled, and plain upset that all the things the 'gurus' had not just stated, but PROMISED had failed every single time to be of any value...other than a definite boost to the sales of IQD. It is a classic example of catering to peoples greed, and manipulating that greed by feeding it for the purpose of selling a currency. Out of this same frustration, comes the anger pointed and directed at the WRONG people. It is not the folks who decided to think for themselves that are the problem here, nor have those folks who began to think for themselves do anything wrong. It is called being prudent, open to understanding both sides, so one can decide for themselves what has value, and what does not. The anger issue comes from anything that disagrees with ones belief, or mindset, and the error within that mindset is rooted in being told something that may not have been the truth or may have been twisted to the point of outright lie. Someone is going to have to take the brunt force of all the frustration, and those who have tried to share the other side of this speculation are a wonderful target, because the information itself is viewed as being a "threat" to their belief and what they have come to believe is truth. It really is not any simpler that this Nani. You call it being 'negative' or 'negativity'. How is it possible to make this claim and direct it at a few who are sincere in their motive of presenting the other side that no guru will address? How is it being 'negative' to debunk and expose a lie with the intent of trying to HELP each other maybe to wake up and understand that things may not work out as we had been told? Would you agree that the true areas of 'negativity' are in those that refuse to speak the truth, that willingly fabricate and lie in order to take advantage of someone emotionally and financially for years? How is it that this one area alone is viewed as "positive", and when someone questions it with the desire to learn and understand, then shares what they have learned be viewed as presenting 'negativity'? Do you see how utterly twisted this kind of thinking has become? In my opinion, the most negative posts are the ones that continue to lie and manipulate people. This is what appears to be acceptable and desired, and yet you accuse those who have looked at both possibilities of this speculation as being the culprits of division and discord and being 'negative'? Is it positive to just tell someone those things they WANT to hear, instead of trying to be objective and maybe assisting one of us to not potentially being deceived or taken advantage of by someones marketing tricks? Instead of accusing those who research and have some balance in their perspective as being 'delusional', why not rather we be honest and admit that the only delusional train of thought that exists here is the unwillingness to consider anything other than what is spoon fed to the masses of IQD holders? Is not the continuation of daily and weekly clinging to lies and sales tactics truly the delusional aspect of this speculation? But I assume that just the mention of this possibility is also being 'negative'? The accusations and train of thought you have presented appear at least to me, to be disingenuous at best and the attempt to cause even more of a divide and chasm between members here by means of labels and false assumptions at worst. I sincerely hope that is not the case. I tend to think that not all, but the majority of folks here are good people who in fact desire to learn together with other members and not be categorized and disposed of via means of this kind of thinking that you propose. We are after all, in this speculation together, whether we agree on every point or not with each other, is it asking too much that we learn to respect each others opinions, research, ideas, backgrounds without having to resort to personal attacks, personal dislikes, and school play ground behavior along with the usual name calling and accusations that offer nothing of value to this board other than to cause division that really does not exist other than to those who feel threatened? Should not we all admit and maintain the fact that this is still nothing more than pure speculation, that there are not now, nor have there ever been any guarantees with this? If we can accept this, and treat it as such, as we continue to try to the very best of our abilities to learn together so we may be able to discern fact from fiction, truth from hype, I think we could be the most informed and most content Iraqi dinar related forum on the internet. But if we continue down this path of pointing fingers at those who have differing opinions, categorizing them into oblivion, accusing them of being 'negative' or 'delusional', refusing to answer pinpoint and sincere questions with more than just the standard response based upon faulty information, then we will not endure this speculation to the end. Hopefully we will ALL be able to share in the potential rewards together, maybe even be pleasantly surprised at the overall outcome without destroying each other in the process. If we can accomplish this as a group, then I would call that a very positive outcome. If we can disregard the supposed 'intel' that keeps being spread here, and focus on what we can all accomplish together by being informed and prepared, then we have already received something that money could never buy. Anything in addition to this accomplishment will be icing on the cake While many other forums are falling apart due to much of the above insanity, why can we not rise above the nonsense and actually learn and work together and interact together without feeling threatened or without hiding behind a computer screen to spew comments that would never be said in person, and that contribute nothing to this site. I personally think we CAN indeed accomplish this, but not without leaving our preconceived notions and ego at the sign in prompt. Just my opinion Nani? Have a peaceful weekend All my best! Jim --- Jim: Thank you for your extremely lucid post, and taking the time to craft such an eloquent response. Thank you to LEGOLAS for posting this over at DD as well. I have always enjoyed your commentary, and usually learned something from your responses in the process. I am NOT a fan (at ALL) of the dreaded "LOP", but I'm also not so blinded by the "gurus" (talk about completely bastardizing a term ...) daily B.S. that I don't realize it is still a very distinct possibility. Regardless, I am "ALL IN" - so let's hope we all get what we truly want in the end ... a (preferably large) profit - and some sanity left when it's all said and done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Networth Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Why are you so defensive? Why do some men buy boxers and some buy briefs? Why do some people buy Chevrolet and some buy Toyota? There are lots of reasons to buy lots of things. Do you need some sort of validation of your decision to purchase dinar? I don't understand. If you are confident in your purchase, why do other people have to tell you why they purchased? If you must know, I was very ignorant about the dinar and made an impulse buy. As I learned more about currencies and foreign exchange trading I realized it was not going to occur anything like what I was led to believe. I have to admit I was wrong. I have since sold 1/3 of my position. I am scheduled to sell another 1/3 soon (I have a target date set). I am undecided about my last 1/3. I may sell it all or I may keep a small amount for conversation or the novelty of it. I think it will be viewed as another great mania in the history of man, alongside the tulip maina in Holland. Perhaps I will keep a small portion to remind me of how bad decisions get made when you get too emotional about an investment. I hope other people here are brave enough to make the same decision once the hype of next week passes and nothing happens. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmcwhipit Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hahaha......Since I care about my fellow humans I will explain one more time so you can understand. 25,000 to 25...... .00085 to 1. No value lost. Comprende? Doesnt that mean RV? http://www.unc.edu/~lmosley/APSA%202005.pdf That is a good read on redenominations and how its not all bad.....how it shows stabillity and that mistakes made in monetary policy are taken care of! When your looking at debts to be paid to another nation everything is adjusted......(lets just keep it simple cause im not good at math ) Ok, lets say I am America and you are Iraq......you still owe me the equivalent of 1 USD for whatever reason.....right now that means you would have to pay me 1170 dinar to meet the 1 USD debt you owe me.... If you decide to RD, and then once its finished you are able to set your new exchange rate to be even with the USD, you now only owe me 1 dinar to meet the 1 USD debt you own me.....so in essence you are actually giving me less dinar after the RD because the value of your dinar went up.... Of course the same could be said for a straight up RV....it works both ways but its a reason why I see that a RD is NOT going to hurt Iraq in any shape or form.... Will a RD help Iraq? isnt that what they want? LOL you beat me to it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinarck Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Doesnt that mean RV? Hahaha, Yeah I guess you could look at it that way but the problem is they divide both the currency and the exchange rate by 1000 so you get nuetral value. They hint that they will bring the exchange rate to 1 at the time of RD so you would actually make 3 bucks or so per 25,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonzworth Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 well your delusional... your chances of winning the lottery are 1 in every 40,000 years. SO thanks for proving my point. Theoretically, the universe is 14 billion years old & a RV of the magnitude with which we've places our hopes and dreams- has never happened.... Not in 14 billion years. So, it appears the lottery does indeed give one better odds at this point in time. Just sayin' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umbertino Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Quote I know that you will see a strait up rv and that it will not be a small number. I know that because the Holy Spirit lives inside of me and has told me not to worry, he's got my back. End Quote Ok then..... I'll concede it's impossible to argue with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinardarius Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 LOP number one two or three? 1. Remove the three zeros from the currency 2. 0.0117 to 1.17 3. Remove the currency with the three zeros through exchange at a low rate at first, then slowly raising the rate until all the 000 bills are gone leaving just the small demons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francie26 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 GOOOOOO RRRRVVVVVVV!!!!!! Feel better now? Wake up to other possibilities. Just because you don't want a LOP doesn't mean it won't happen and doesn't mean we are not allowed to discuss it. If you don't like to hear it go read Oakie post or listen to a Breitlin CC. Sheep belong in the flock. It doesn't make you a brave adventurer to believe in a lop and still keep dinar. It makes you stupid. lol If you are just another lopper in a flock of loppers, then you are a sheep, too. Maybe a black one, but nevertheless, a sheep in a flock of other sheep like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinarck Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 It doesn't make you a brave adventurer to believe in a lop and still keep dinar. It makes you stupid. lol If you are just another lopper in a flock of loppers, then you are a sheep, too. Maybe a black one, but nevertheless, a sheep in a flock of other sheep like yourself. I believe in multiple possibilities. I also believe that some are not possibilities. The sheep I speak of have been brainwashed by their shepards to believe in only one possibility. What do you believe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Rupple Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 ANYONE WITH ANY COMMON SENCE HAS TO BELIEVE THERE IS A POSSIBILTY OF A LOP...............IF YOU DONT THINK THERE IS A CHANCE OF A LOP YOU ARENT NEAR AS SMART AS YOU THINK YOU ARE......... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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