Debunking; 70% of three zeroes has been removed

[truthful1]

24 trillion in circulation is 24 trllion whether its in the large 000 notes or the smaller notes.

It does not matter if the CBI has removed 70% or larger notes, because they would've replaced them with the SAME AMOUNT in lower notes. Meaning it would not reduce the amount in circulation. Just the notes that make up 24 trillion.

This should be easy to understand.......

If by some means the CBI actually reduced the amount in circulation, there reserves or some other account would have reduced to pay for lifting them off the market. Simply put, it hasnt happened.

The cash sales at the currency auction, have not been enough to bring in trillions of dinars. Looking forward to intelligent responses.

[FOUNDIT]

It is impossible to come up with true numbers because we are not talking factual numbers.Most of what we hear is opinion,therefor junk in junk out.However Shabs did say that currency was being removed from the market place.And i remember him saying that 70% had been removed.Now the question is???? Was that 70% of all IQD or 70% of in country IQD???? You see what i mean......As for lower denoms,you won't see them until the RV happens as many will quickly buy up the IQD if they know the lows are out. Mow yes this is JMO but i think it is reasonable based on what we have or have not seen so far.

[therealdinardaddy]

24 trillion in circulation is 24 trllion whether its in the large 000 notes or the smaller notes.

It does not matter if the CBI has removed 70% or larger notes, because they would've replaced them with the SAME AMOUNT in lower notes. Meaning it would not reduce the amount in circulation. Just the notes that make up 24 trillion.

This should be easy to understand.......

If by some means the CBI actually reduced the amount in circulation, there reserves or some other account would have reduced to pay for lifting them off the market. Simply put, it hasnt happened.

The cash sales at the currency auction, have not been enough to bring in trillions of dinars. Looking forward to intelligent responses.

Oh ok --- so do u work for the cbi? Nobody knows anything (for sure)! So u & everyone else should just stop!!! Peace

[truthful1]

The theory was that when an Iraqi went to the bank or market, instead of receiving monies back in 000 notes they have been receiving 500 or 250 dinar notes. My point is that it doesnt matter if they have removed the 000's, the Iraqi has been receiving the SAME AMOUNT back in the lower notes. Equal exchange. No dinars are reduced from circulation.

Oh ok --- so do u work for the cbi? Nobody knows anything (for sure)! So u & everyone else should just stop!!! Peace

I guarantee you that that statment is more accurate, than anything you've ever been told about this process. You can hold me to it!!!

[Tropics]

Now that in your mind the 70% has been debunked, what exactly did you accomplish? People spend time trying to prove something isn't right when all we care about is when it actually happens. As someone mentioned, unless you work for CBI, you are only using conjecture without a clue if you are right.

[keepmwlknfny]

It is impossible to come up with true numbers because we are not talking factual numbers.Most of what we hear is opinion,therefor junk in junk out.However Shabs did say that currency was being removed from the market place.And i remember him saying that 70% had been removed.Now the question is???? Was that 70% of all IQD or 70% of in country IQD???? You see what i mean......As for lower denoms,you won't see them until the RV happens as many will quickly buy up the IQD if they know the lows are out. Mow yes this is JMO but i think it is reasonable based on what we have or have not seen so far.

They removed 70% of the excess liquidity.....not currency in circulation....I made a post about it....thats why everyone wants to think they cant have 24 trillion outside the banks (which in fact they do) because the gurus pushed so hard about Shabs removing bills from circulation when they had no freakin idea of what they were talking about.....removing excess liquidity actually adds currency to circulation....it doesnt remove it....the currency was taken and filtered right back into the banks to be used for financing, loans, and things of that nature...NOTHING was removed from circulation.....another false forum fact.....

[truthful1]

I accomplished, showing people that what the guru's have told them is false. Unless the CBI is paying to lift them off the market, the same amount exist in circulation. Everyone should spend some time on page 20 of the IMF report, and check out the monetary aggregates on the CBI website. Every official statistic on Iraq shows aprox. 24 trillion in circuation.

So when gurus say 70% has been removed FROM CIRCULATION, they are 100% false.

Someone should pop this question, if they want to play '"stump the guru"

[rcrge]

my what people spend there free time thinking ...... hmmmm

[keepmwlknfny]

Oh ok --- so do u work for the cbi? Nobody knows anything (for sure)! So u & everyone else should just stop!!! Peace

What are you getting mad about and telling him to stop for? Stop what? Searching for the truth? Realizing whats false and that has been made up and spread throughout these forums giving people the wrong idea??

[Tropics]

exactly rcrge. Oh my god I just proved the gurus wrong. Laughs well congratulations to you and that I am sure speeds up the RV.

[keepmwlknfny]

exactly rcrge. Oh my god I just proved the gurus wrong. Laughs well congratulations to you and that I am sure speeds up the RV.

The gurus and more then half the people on these forums that use that statement of the removed zeros as a strong reason why they wont or can lop.....I get annoyed when people use that same ol false info and bring it to debate on why they can RV high when it has no factual basis....some people need to be informed correctly of whats really out there....dont be a hater for truthful doing that.....you can stay up on cloud nine if you wish....

[Bambino3]

Fellas, I respect the time and thought you put into this. Keep, you sem to be very analytical and you may be right, but do you really, really know for sure. That being said, all we care about is will this be a good investment. It will not. It will be a great investment. The dinar will go up to at least 4 to 5 cents and this is fabulous, When I see the number 3 - 6, even 11, it has just made a mockery out of everything. I remember when Major Burns told Hawkeye that he was making a "Hollow mockery out of everything". Hawkeye retorted "I have never taken the insides out of a mockery". This is kind of how we need to look at it. We can not be so uptight. We are sitting pretty. I think we will get an absurd return on our investment. For each of us, it is to determine what 'absurd" really is.

[andy3978]

Know what conclusion I came to...this is all ridiculous.

Constant BS out there every day. Rumor on top of rumor. Every damn thing contradicting each other. News, Intel, CBI Statements, Smokescreens, Shabibi's speeches, Gurus, etc---all CRAP.

Nothing can be trusted--not even news reports out of Iraq. How many times have we heard 'next week the Ministers will be seated.' I've been hearing that one since February.

Who the hell knows how much Dinar is out in circulation? Since we can't trust any other info who says this Page 20 document is legitimate either. Call me a cynic or a skeptic, but there's a reason why I dont post anymore and barely skim through the posts anymore. Tired of all the garbage.

What is really the point about reading anything if you can't believe it? I'm not eve talking about Okie's junk either..."Legitimate" news sources are full of s**t as well. So when we hear about 24 trillion in circulation---that could be crap too. There might be 1 trillion in circulation. OR, there might be 50 trillion out there. Who knows. I don't care how 'legitimate' the author/source is. The CBI is suppose to be a legitimate source as well, but Saleah--or whatever the CBI spokesman's name is has made how many false statements already?

Just tired of this garbage really. When I get the call from my wife at the bank that her Forex screen reflects a new rate for the IQD I will believe it. Nothing else.

[truthful1]

I believe the dinar will rise in value, which makes it a good investment for me. I am not arguing that point.

There has been so much manipulation of the numbers and articles, I posted this to shed some light on the truth. I thank everyone for contributing, especially keepm who does his best to sort through the misinformed.

I am not making a prediction to what will happen, but almost all information coming from gurus on this issue, is completely false. I am not here to convince you Im right, or to change your mind. But I felt, I should put it out there for people to think about.

[FOUNDIT]

The gurus and more then half the people on these forums that use that statement of the removed zeros as a strong reason why they wont or can lop.....I get annoyed when people use that same ol false info and bring it to debate on why they can RV high when it has no factual basis....some people need to be informed correctly of whats really out there....dont be a hater for truthful doing that.....you can stay up on cloud nine if you wish....

Keep my friend their is no hate here just opinions.I respect truthfuls opinion and encourage him or her to keep trying to figure it out. We are of course on the same ride.I will also however expect others to at least respect my opinions also.The only real fact is that there are many opinions based on each persons own research.My research leads me to believe in a huge return on our investment.I will continue to seek the truth and keep an open mind.

[truthful1]

my what people spend there free time thinking ...... hmmmm

Absolutely, I am a thinker and have thought out any possible outcome a million times. Its what I do. I think for myself. I just dont read some cc and believe everything without confirming myself.

I'm not one to sit by the kool-aid stand and drink whatever flavor is offered that day. You can call it negative, or whatever, it doesnt matter.

If I didnt spend my time thinking things through, I wouldnt be a very good investor.

[Carrello]

Oh ok --- so do u work for the cbi? Nobody knows anything (for sure)! So u & everyone else should just stop!!! Peace

Are you saying we should stop thinking, debating, and searching for knowledge? We never would have gotten to the moon with that way of 'thinking'. Back to your box....you may get run over.

[Froto]

... It will be a great investment. The dinar will go up to at least 4 to 5 cents and this is fabulous...

Bambino,

I believe that if you look on the IMF website, you can find their reports on Iraq. I believe that the numbers there will show you that if the CBI were to RV at just one penny, its Official International Reserves would drop to a single digit percentage level. That cannot happen, the reason the IQD is so stable is mainly due to its high reserve level. A single digit percentage reserve level is also well below the legally required level.

I would be interested on how you arrived at 4 or 5 cents.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Froto

[FOUNDIT]

Here is some of why i believe the RVwill happen..and yes a little about EXCESS LIQUIDITY.

Iraq : Iraq announces withdrawal of 70 percent of the excess liquidity

Stressed the continuing support of residential, industrial and service

Baghdad, Taha Hussein

Iraq could pull a high proportion of excess liquidity for local market needs as well as continuing to support projects of industrial, service and housing.

Director General of BADEA Abdul Hussein al-Yasiri at a news conference attended by “morning” that the bank has achieved an important work focuses on two aspects, namely the withdrawal of excess liquidity from circulation and put it into the market again as it allows taking 24 trillion and 800 billion dinars, representing 70 percent of the liquidity, adding to The second aspect of the directions of the Bank is to support a draft comprehensive banking and industrial sectors, service and construction projects, construction and allocation of part of loans to farmers and the financing of housing projects, especially that the country needs to build more than three million housing units, noting that the bank was allocated 6 trillion dinars for the purposes of housing, commerce and industry to by granting loans to the public sector such as the Ministry of Electricity, which granted a loan for the development of electricity and the purchase of bonds and remittances in the form of two waves exceeded Akiemha four trillion and 800 billion dinars, as well as giving companies and the Ministry of Industry more than a trillion and 115 billion dinars, a contribution to the implementation of rehabilitation projects and the development of these companies , in addition to the different loans granted by Bank staff and employees in government departments, different. Speaking of housing loans granted by Iraq for the citizens and that the bank used Balakari as his experience in granting housing loans to citizens Vakarz final amount exceeded 300 billion dinars, in addition to the prepared study in how to grant housing loans by him directly, because the bank wanted to avoid the mistakes that many international banks through the equation between the deposits and the type and between loans and advances, indicating the presence of short-term deposits and long-term and there are loans and lines of short, medium and long-term bank, which has the right vision for the future must be prepared to lend this budget and on this basis, as he put it. Director-General warned that the bank is still going to give the citizens of housing loans of $ 30 million, indicating that the bank is required possession of the citizen who wants to get this loan for a piece of land as fit for building residential unit more than others, as well as its continuation in the granting of commercial loans and industrial. Said that Iraq had set a ceiling for advances not to exceed one trillion dinars and is currently studying the possibility of developing a new roof or the lifting of the ceiling reached by the bank in the previous round.

Here we see Iraq withdrawing money, but at the same time it is stressing that it will still have enough money to support projects for industrial, service, and housing.

So what is excess liquidity?

http://www.livemint.com/2009/08/02215137/Global-excess-liquidity-create.html

Becker provides a precise definition of “excess liquidity”, which is simply that if money supply expands faster than nominal gross domestic product (GDP), excess liquidity will be created. In other words, excess liquidity is the percentage year-on-year (y-o-y) money supply growth minus the percentage y-o-y growth in nominal GDP.

It is evident that the Central bank of Iraq has been pulling money from the supply look at the CBI

http://www.cbi.iq/index.php?pid=Banknotes

The coins are already pulled from the money supply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_dinar

“The notes were similar in design to notes issued by the Central Bank of Iraq in the 1970s and 1980s. A 500 dinars note was issued a year later, in October 2004. In the Kurdish regions of Iraq, the 50 dinar note is not in circulation.

In 2004, new 25, 50, and 100 dinars coins were introduced. However, these coins proved to be unpopular & were withdrawn from circulation.”

I don’t know exactly how much Iraqi dinar is in circulation and how much has been pulled at this point. I am still trying to determine this, but what about the US money supply?

The US has 1.7 trillion dollars in printed currency this is called the M1 money supply. The US also has digital currency. The digital currency and the physical currency added together is called the M2 money supply. The M2 money supply is 8.5 trillion. The money supply is greatly expanded by the use of something called Fractional Reserve Banking. This is outlined in a book produced by the Federal Reserve called Modern Money Mechanics. This short video will explain how it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC8I3J-1GSM

http://www.forecasts.org/m1.htm

Now you know exactly how the money supply is expanded through the fractional reserve banking system. So take the base money supply and times it by 10 (the reserve limit) now you have 85 trillion as an expansion possibility. However the reserve requirement has been removed.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/65803

So ask yourself, If the federal reserve and the bankers can expand the money supply this much, How come the reserve requirements were removed? The money supply has been expanded even further through Quantitative Easing 1 and 2. The total US money supply is M3. Good luck finding an accurate number.

So money = debt and debt = money. Every dollar in circulation represents someone else in debt. Now check out the US debt Clock

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Maybe we can kind of guess what the real M3 money supply is from calculating all this debt.

Iraq is a world currency. It is spread throughout the world. So to determine if there is enough currency to revalue you need to look at the global picture, not just the United States currency. Keep in mind that there are about 150 central banks and don’t forget to take into account Fractional Reserve Banking for each bank!

What about Redenomination?

In the last redenomination article I read two things stood out. First the new government would need to approve the dinar. Second they will conduct a study to see if this is a good option. So if this is correct no decision has been made at this point. They would also need to determine the cost and build it into the budget. There has been an on again off again approach when discussing this topic. There are many articles that say they will not redenominate. I am going to quote from the Wikipedia link provided earlier.

“According to a Reuters report on 11 Feb 2010, Iraq expects to redenominate its dinar currency by knocking three zeros off the nominal value of bank notes to facilitate currency transactions.”

The Rothschild family owns Reuters. This is the same Rothschild family that owns the CBI. History is about to repeat itself once again. Remember earlier that the Rothschild’s ancestors purchased all the colonial currency they could find and at the same time they had their network of people declaring how worthless the currency was. Soon afterwards Alexander Hamilton restored value to the Colonial currency.

The same thing is happening today. The Rothschilds are setting up their network of agents and friends with as much Iraqi dinar and bonds as possible via the stock market and acquisitions, and at the same time they say the currency will redenominate and is worthless through their media complex. Places like Reuters and AP provide the Rothschilds with their own personal forums. Then when the time is right Shabibi will revalue the dinar.

http://www.publiccentralbank.com/

http://www.scoreboard-canada.com/articles-reuters.htm

http://everythingwarrenbuffett.blogspot.com/2009/11/reuters-rothschild-star-and-buffett.html

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=539%3 Arothschild-controlled-news-wire-qreutersq-tries-to-hype-swine-flu-danger-in-china&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64〈=en

http://tobefree.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/the-rothschilds-world-kingpins-worth-500-trillion-they-own-reuters-ap-and-fix-the-price-of-gold%E2%80%A6/

So if you clicked on the links and watched the video in the last link above you know that the Rothschilds also own the oil company Royal Dutch Shell. Look at the oil contracts in Iraq that have been given to shell. Look at the 17 billion gas contract signed by shell.

In Conclusion

When we consider an Iraqi dinar RV we need to look at the really big picture. There is more at stake here than a war-torn country that suffered under a brutal dictatorship and is merely trying to emerge from economic ruin. We are dealing with global interests that want to establish a foothold in this region. The global elite wants to dominate this region and establish their control over it’s resources. The dinar is a tool to do just that.

There is one more piece to this puzzle. All of this is setting the world stage for a one world government. A ruler (antichrist) will arise from this world government and all this can be found in biblical prophecy.

http://***********.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/what-does

[dinarck]

Know what conclusion I came to...this is all ridiculous.

Constant BS out there every day. Rumor on top of rumor. Every damn thing contradicting each other. News, Intel, CBI Statements, Smokescreens, Shabibi's speeches, Gurus, etc---all CRAP.

Nothing can be trusted--not even news reports out of Iraq. How many times have we heard 'next week the Ministers will be seated.' I've been hearing that one since February.

Who the hell knows how much Dinar is out in circulation? Since we can't trust any other info who says this Page 20 document is legitimate either. Call me a cynic or a skeptic, but there's a reason why I dont post anymore and barely skim through the posts anymore. Tired of all the garbage.

What is really the point about reading anything if you can't believe it? I'm not eve talking about Okie's junk either..."Legitimate" news sources are full of s**t as well. So when we hear about 24 trillion in circulation---that could be crap too. There might be 1 trillion in circulation. OR, there might be 50 trillion out there. Who knows. I don't care how 'legitimate' the author/source is. The CBI is suppose to be a legitimate source as well, but Saleah--or whatever the CBI spokesman's name is has made how many false statements already?

Just tired of this garbage really. When I get the call from my wife at the bank that her Forex screen reflects a new rate for the IQD I will believe it. Nothing else.

I bet if you read an article from Iraq that they were about to RV their currency to 3.22 you would believe it. People believe what they want to be true even though everything is pointing another way.

[truthful1]

Foundit,

The article you provided says " excess liquidity removed and then put back into the market again". That answers that.

I do not engage in conspiracies on the global scale. As soon as we have to throw out official numbers and statistics, I'm out of the conversation. Without using what's documented to the IMF and what's equivilant on the CBI

website we are blindly selected our own outcomes. I am not saying your wrong in you studies, but you have entered a world where there are no standards, rules, or historic guidelines. Those who want to believe such, will until

time proves them right or wrong.

If there is 24 trillion still in circulation, there is no way possible for a high rv, even if every Rothchild on the planet wants it to.....

[hoosier1470]

Foundit, I appoligize for the -1....I fully intended on the opposite, but, hit the wrong button! Fantastic post with great links! Totally my opinion as well! Nice work! Thank you!

[FOUNDIT]

Foundit,

The article you provided says " excess liquidity removed and then put back into the market again". That answers that.

I do not engage in conspiracies on the global scale. As soon as we have to throw out official numbers and statistics, I'm out of the conversation. Without using what's documented to the IMF and what's equivilant on the CBI

website we are blindly selected our own outcomes. I am not saying your wrong in you studies, but you have entered a world where there are no standards, rules, or historic guidelines. Those who want to believe such, will until

time proves them right or wrong.

If there is 24 trillion still in circulation, there is no way possible for a high rv, even if every Rothchild on the planet wants it to.....

Truthful,

Yes you are correct excess liquidity is removed but not necessarily put back into the market.That is a discretionary measure which there is no proof of.However it is fact excess liquidity was removed.Not fact it was reintroduced.I would submit if you are on dinar forums strictly for factual evidence-----well you are wasting your time.We are all speculators in a huge process.The world you speak of in your reply is the one you live in as well my friend.It may not be perfect but we get where we want to go by constructive dialog and ideas based on opinion and fact.Thanks for the thread you started it bought up some interesting thoughts.....

[speculatorsRIDE]

They removed 70% of the excess liquidity.....not currency in circulation....I made a post about it....that's why everyone wants to think they cant have 24 trillion outside the banks (which in fact they do) because the gurus pushed so hard about Shabs removing bills from circulation when they had no freakin idea of what they were talking about.....removing excess liquidity actually adds currency to circulation....it doesn't remove it....the currency was taken and filtered right back into the banks to be used for financing, loans, and things of that nature...NOTHING was removed from circulation.....another false forum fact.....

Sorry keep, not a guru here. However, I disagree with your assumption that they have 24 trillion IQD in circulation outside the bank. Shabs has been working on removing 000 notes for 5 years. But for the sake of argument lets assume they do. I am wondering if you have factored in non-liquid assets to your line of thought. When exactly do the non-liquid assets get monetized into liquidity and become part of the basis of the real equitable exchange rate? They have 150 billion barrels of proven reserves in oil which at $100 (yes I know it is selling for more but lets use this figure for simplicity) a barrel translates into 15 trillion IQD. There is an additional estimated 350 billion barrels which will translate into 35 trillion IQD. That would be 50 trillion IQD that will be added to the assets of Iraq. Then there is the CBI holdings of monetary gold, SDRs, Iraq’s reserve position in the IMF, foreign currency cash, and deposits abroad, except for the resources of the DFI but including the CBI DFI sub-account, natural gas, non mint precious metals, futures, etc. etc. etc. It is my opinion that Iraq is able to support the prewar value of exchange rate as they have stated they wanted to do. That rate is $3.22 Now it is very possible that they will come out low to shake out those investors that are ready to cash out. This will give Iraq added opportunity to purchase their IQD low and then resell as the rate increases for a profit. (They stand to make a mint doing this alone) If they are on a free float system as described then there will be plenty of investors looking to buy in considering the wealth of Iraq. Just a little food for thought for all those that think that they are gonna come out at .01 to .05 Taking these additional assets into consideration. It is feasible for them to come out comfortably at 1 : 1 ratio. I would think it would start there and climb relatively quickly to the prewar rate. I have also heard the argument that they need to have 100% cash available to cash out all IQD in circulation. No one bothers to mention that no other country does this. With fractional banking it isn't necessary. Do a little research on the US and you will see what I mean. Go RV

They removed 70% of the excess liquidity.....not currency in circulation....I made a post about it....that's why everyone wants to think they cant have 24 trillion outside the banks (which in fact they do) because the gurus pushed so hard about Shabs removing bills from circulation when they had no freakin idea of what they were talking about.....removing excess liquidity actually adds currency to circulation....it doesn't remove it....the currency was taken and filtered right back into the banks to be used for financing, loans, and things of that nature...NOTHING was removed from circulation.....another false forum fact.....

Sorry keep, not a guru here. However, I disagree with your assumption that they have 24 trillion IQD in circulation outside the bank. Shabs has been working on removing 000 notes for 5 years. But for the sake of argument lets assume they do. I am wondering if you have factored in non-liquid assets to your line of thought. When exactly do the non-liquid assets get monetized into liquidity and become part of the basis of the real equitable exchange rate? They have 150 billion barrels of proven reserves in oil which at $100 (yes I know it is selling for more but lets use this figure for simplicity) a barrel translates into 15 trillion IQD. There is an additional estimated 350 billion barrels which will translate into 35 trillion IQD. That would be 50 trillion IQD that will be added to the assets of Iraq. Then there is the CBI holdings of monetary gold, SDRs, Iraq’s reserve position in the IMF, foreign currency cash, and deposits abroad, except for the resources of the DFI but including the CBI DFI sub-account, natural gas, non mint precious metals, futures, etc. etc. etc. It is my opinion that Iraq is able to support the prewar value of exchange rate as they have stated they wanted to do. That rate is $3.22 Now it is very possible that they will come out low to shake out those investors that are ready to cash out. This will give Iraq added opportunity to purchase their IQD low and then resell as the rate increases for a profit. (They stand to make a mint doing this alone) If they are on a free float system as described then there will be plenty of investors looking to buy in considering the wealth of Iraq. Just a little food for thought for all those that think that they are gonna come out at .01 to .05 Taking these additional assets into consideration. It is feasible for them to come out comfortably at 1 : 1 ratio. I would think it would start there and climb relatively quickly to the prewar rate. I have also heard the argument that they need to have 100% cash available to cash out all IQD in circulation. No one bothers to mention that no other country does this. With fractional banking it isn't necessary. Do a little research on the US and you will see what I mean. Go RV

[MrRich]

Excellent discussion. This is what I love about DV. What other forum would allow this? None of the gurus would be willing to have their facts checked. They would just ban people for being negative. We might get a bit hostile from time to time and there's a little bashing here and there, but I haven't seen any other dinar forum where people would actually be allowed to hash it out trying to find the facts like we're doing here.