Further proof that Chapter 7 is NOT totally lifted

[blitzer]

I was unable to post the link to this article as it came from another site, and was not allowed, sorry.

 

Those who have stated that Iraq is “out of Chapter 7″ simply do not do their research and the claim is unfounded. There is still many obligations for Iraq to comply with.

 

The above quote is from Ban Ki-moon.  The rest of the news article is below.

 

The Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon was “still in front of Iraq a number of commitments it fulfilled before leaving under Chapter VII, which threatens Iraq with sanctions and possible military action if it does not stick out as well as continue to pay around $ 11 billion through 2015, compensation for the damage caused by the invasion of Kuwait. “

and praised Ban Ki-moon yesterday in the periodic report to the Security Council on the work of the United Nations Mission to help Iraq, “UNAMI” what he called tact leaderships Kuwaiti and Iraqi forces on the progress of the “significant progress” toward full normalization of relations between the two countries.

expressed hope that “works governments Kuwaiti and Iraqi hand in hand in order to increase their cooperation in all areas, including pouring in favor of their peoples,” noting that Iraq is a line “great strides” toward restoring international status it was in before the invasion.

welcomed the adoption of Security Council resolution 2107 month the past that the era of the issue of missing Kuwaitis and nationals of other countries and Kuwaiti property mission “UNAMI” under the Chapter VI of the Charter of the United Nations.

 

In addition, I re-state what I did several days ago.  Iraq is not out of Chapter 7.  They had select resolutions removed from 7 to 6.  But not ALL of them.  And if you read the text, and not just listen to what Zebari said, you can see it for yourselves.

 

UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTING RESOLUTION 2107 (2013), SECURITY COUNCIL REMOVES IRAQ FROM CHAPTER VII OBLIGATIONS OVER RETURN OF KUWAITI NATIONALS

The above section in red, is a copy and paste from the first link, and it clearly states, that there was a unanimous vote, adopting the resolution, to remove Iraq from Chapter 7 in regards to the missing Kuwaiti's. (and the resolutions that relate to that issue)  It does NOT refer to any of the other remaining sanctions/resolutions.  Just that one.

The Security Council today decided to remove Iraq from its obligations under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter concerning the return of Kuwaiti and third-State nationals or their remains and their property seized by Iraq’s former regime during its 1990 invasion of Kuwait.

This very first line of text, from the same document, then states what they are removing from Chapter 7. 

Following the adoption, Hoshyar Zebar, Iraq’s Foreign Minister, said the text marked a turning point in Iraq’s relationship with the international community and a significant step in Iraq’s and Kuwait’s joint efforts to mend bilateral ties.  Further, it illustrated that Iraq had fulfilled all its obligations under Chapter VII of the Charter.

Fulfilled all the obligations of the resolutions/sanctions relating to the missing Kuwaiti’s.  NOT ALL THE SANCTIONS/RESOLUTIONS UNDER CHAPTER 7.  This resolution being voted on does not deal with ALL the resolutions that were or are under Chapter 7.

“3.   Decides, under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, to terminate the measures in paragraphs 2 ©, 2 (d) and 3 © of resolution 686 (1991), paragraph 30 of resolution 687 (1991) and the arrangements set forth in paragraph 14 of resolution 1284 (1999), and reaffirmed in subsequent relevant resolutions;

OK, still the same document, this is still the UNSC text of the Thursday meeting.  In this section, they are moving 3 resolutions from Chapter 7 into Chapter 6; specifically: 686, 687, & 1284.  They are NOT however moving resolution 833 from Chapter 7 into Chapter 6.  And 833 is the one that deals with the compensation.  At no point in this meeting or document does the UNSC EVER state that that 833 is out of Chapter 7. 

 

And they never even mention the sanction/resolution that deals with the arms embargo that Iraq is still under, and THAT one is still under Chapter 7 as well.  And THAT one in particular is not scheduled to be released before September of 2014, because that is when they are due to BEGIN receiving the first of the F-16’s they have been getting trained on here in the USA.  (those articles were here on this site as well)  They CANNOT take delivery of those warbirds until the arms embargo is lifted.  And that same arms embargo is what kept Russia from doing anything any sooner with Iraq also.  Which is why Maliki came home last week from Moscow somewhat disappointed that Putin didn’t begin flying Mig’s over right away.  Remember the news article on this site last week that described Maliki as “disappointed” in his arms talks with Putin?

 

I say again.  Zebari said they were out of 7.  I did not hear the Brit say that Iraq was out of 7.  He said that the Council was voting to adopt the resolution, and THAT resolution ONLY moved the affected resolutions in regards to missing Kuwaiti's, their property and archives, and some third parties.

 

http://www.presstv.i...from-chapter-7/ 

UN diplomatic sources say the only issues regarding Iraq's invasion of Kuwait which remain under Chapter 7 are an arms ban and the country’s payment of USD 52 billion in compensation to Kuwait.
Iraq still owes USD 11 billion to Kuwait. It hopes to settle it by 2015.

 

Neg me all you want.  Yeah, I don’t have many posts, and yeah, I have not been in this as long as a lot of you.  I’ve only been in this for a bit over 2 years.  Doesn’t mean I’m wrong.  When I posted my first comments I got froze out by the mods for darn near 48 hours just because no one wanted to hear the truth.  We’ll see how long they lock me out this time.   CENSORSHIP IS ALIVE!!!  And lord help anyone who rocks the boat.  lol

 

Here are the links to the UN documents that I got the texts out of.

 

 http://www.un.org/Ne...sc11050.doc.htm

 

 http://www.un.org/ap...it#.UdB6BlOd7zf
 

 

 

 

[sandfly]

WE ALL KNOW THAT IRAQ STILL OWES 11BILLIONS. BUT WHEN THAT IS PAID. THEY WILL BE OUT OF CH7. SO THE PART THAT IS CH6 IS WHAT WE NEED TO RV RI

[trinity]

I agree with sandfly.  The sanctions were lifted from Iraq (that was the main thing) and the payment to Kuwait now is just a formality 

[dinarholder253]

IMO... Iraqi needed chapter 7 to be lifted to be able to rv for payment to Kuwait! Go RV

[dontlop]

 i like this part which>>>>  threatens Iraq with sanctions and possible military action

military action ?

 

whos gonna be doin the invading ?.. over  a few billion dollars ? i doubt that very much ...

 

sanctions ,, what kind of sanctions .. the un  gonna put a sanction that they owe kuwait money .. whats the sanction  gonna say ..pay up ?

what sanctions are applied to iraq right now until the debt is paid ..  just the debt must be paid ?

 

all chapter 7 is .. is that force and sanctions can be used under chapter 7 ..

 

 whos gonna use military force  now over  money ?

their are no sanctions on iraq any more .. unless you can name them

[dontlop]

it all started with un resolution 660  which is chapter 6 .. and all  chapter 7 says is they will use all necessary means to uphold  resolution 660 under chapter 7 they can  use sanctions and  military  to uphold un  resolution 660 .... to restore kuwait ..  they fall under resolution 660 again which was inplace before  resolution 661 .

 

resolution 660 is chapter 6

 

United Nations Security Council resolution 661, adopted on 6 August 1990, reaffirming Resolution 660 (1990) and noting Iraq's refusal to comply with it

[Rayzur]

IT seems that were it that easy to determine the status of any one nation by simply reading the latest Resolution,...... there probably would not be any debate about where Iraq stands relative to Chapter 7.

Somewhere out  there is an  XML spreadsheet showing the  UN mandates for peacekeeping operations and field based political missions.  There are a whole bunch of countries in one state or other being monitored regarding at least 70 different categories by a boatload of different agencies on behalf of the UN (Iraq is under UNAMI has 16 mandate components, and the lead entity is DPA) .... It was updated I think in May 2013... so unfortunately will not include the June resolution.... But its probably important to keep in mind this was speaking to one component. If you go back through the history, you'll see lots of different resolutions releasing Iraq from other components.... I could go through the list and correlate ... and name the resolutions, but its late... And in any case, they are there and you'd have to trace them, and/or their relocation to another Chapter (e.g., Chapter 6, which we are all under.... )

There are a boatload of countries held under a variety of mandated components. South Sudan and Haiti for example both had 37 mandates originally (have no idea where they are at in this process... I don't follow it)...

I guess the point is one cannot read one resolution and from that come to any conclusion as to a final release.... Because the process unfolds as it does, I'm almost wondering if there is even an announcement stating they are released from Chapt VII mandates,on the whole as such.... or if its more a matter of monitoring the list, and understanding that the prevailing mandates that kept them economically hamstrung are now released by various resolutions such that there are no more obstacles to the financial infra structure operating as an international trade partner, as far as the UN is concerned....

 

Whether or not Iraq has residual pieces of mandate components remaining under the original UN Resolution/Chapter 7 may not matter as much as them being released from those components that obstructed them taking their place among nations as a recognized trading partner, with an internationally recognized currency used for trade.

"Release from Chapter 7" might well be a short hand referential way of referring to a complex process with simple words and may not accurately reflect an actual definitive state required to trade on the international platform..... (Sorry I know thats a convoluted statement... hopefully it makes sense)/..... In short, they were released from whatever it was obstructing this significant leap forward and into the international trading matrix as a recognized player with a recognized internationally traded currency...(it seems)

 

Course if thats not the case, there sure are a lot of Iraqi officials needlessly tweaking out about their monetary policy as it relates to this latest UN action...

Edited July 13, 2013 by Rayzur

[Rayzur]

Oh, here is the short much easier to understand version:

 

As was widely anticipated, the United Nations Security Council unanimously agreed last week to move several outstanding issues between Iraq and Kuwait from Chapter VII to Chapter VI of the UN Charter.

This effective normalisation of relations between Iraq and Kuwait has been broadly welcomed, with statements from US Secretary of State John Kerry and UK Minister for the Middle East Alistair Burt, among others; the removal of the sanctions is seen as a major step forward for Iraq.

But what does this mean in practical terms for the business community, and to what extent will it ease trade and facilitate development? If your business will be affected by this development, directly or indirectly, please let us know in the Comments section below.

[END]

 

 

The resolution referred to by this thread was one of the outstanding issues in a long line of issues that have been resolved over the years..... Its the last significant page, not the only page in this process....

 

And this one from Press TV sums it up:

 

The UN Security Council has voted to remove Iraq from Chapter 7 of the UN Charter, unanimously agreeing to lift the UN sanctions imposed on Baghdad following the 1990 invasion of Kuwait by the executed dictator Saddam Hussein.

On Thursday, the 15-memebr body agreed that the issue of missing Kuwaiti people, property and archives should be handled under Chapter 6, instead of Chapter 7.

Chapter 6 of the UN Charter urges peaceful resolution of any conflict between the countries, while Chapter 7 authorizes the council to allow measures such as sanctions or military intervention if countries do not meet its demands.

The council’s resolution recognized “the importance of Iraq achieving international standing equal to that which it held prior to (1990).”

The decision is regarded as a major political upgrade for Iraq as it struggles to restore its international status a decade after the US-led invasion toppled Saddam in 2003.

Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari praised the council’s move, saying the move heralds a new start for the ties between Iraq and Kuwait.

“This is a new beginning for the relations between our two neighborly and brotherly countries. This is an example for other countries also to resolve their disputes and differences through peaceful means,” he said.

UN diplomatic sources say the only issues regarding Iraq's invasion of Kuwait which remain under Chapter 7 are an arms ban and the country’s payment of USD 52 billion in compensation to Kuwait.

Iraq still owes USD 11 billion to Kuwait. It hopes to settle it by 2015.

MKA/KA/HMV

 

And while it looks like we're using the same article to assert completely different views, the context given in the (rather lengthy) post before this one discusses why these remaining aspects, ... if they remain... are not significant and did not result in Iraq staying under 7 of their original Charter.... THey are out of Chapt 7.... the end.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Rayzur

[umbertino]

 i like this part which>>>>  threatens Iraq with sanctions and possible military action

military action ?

 

whos gonna be doin the invading ?.. over  a few billion dollars ? i doubt that very much ...

 

sanctions ,, what kind of sanctions .. the un  gonna put a sanction that they owe kuwait money .. whats the sanction  gonna say ..pay up ?

what sanctions are applied to iraq right now until the debt is paid ..  just the debt must be paid ?

 

all chapter 7 is .. is that force and sanctions can be used under chapter 7 ..

 

 whos gonna use military force  now over  money ?

their are no sanctions on iraq any more .. unless you can name them

I have to agree with you on this one. Doesn't make a iota of sense.

[TotalNewb]

The way I understand it is...

Iraq is out if Chp 7 mostly... And free to conduct international business. Vital provisions were moved to Chp 6. There are still some things that remain in Chp 7 status but are not relevant to the RV.

[calkid11]

Good post , This is the only part left of chapter 7. they have time to do it. UN diplomatic sources say the only issues regarding Iraq's invasion of Kuwait which remain under Chapter 7 are an arms ban and the country’s payment of USD 52 billion in compensation to Kuwait.


Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154329-further-proof-that-chapter-7-is-not-totally-lifted/#ixzz2YvmLBdY9

[stealthwarrior]

^{Adam says Iraq is out of chapter 7.he knows a lot more than me so when he says it then it is true.PERIOD!}

[MyLadiesDaddy]

 i like this part which>>>>  threatens Iraq with sanctions and possible military action

military action ?

 

whos gonna be doin the invading ?.. over  a few billion dollars ? i doubt that very much ...

 

sanctions ,, what kind of sanctions .. the un  gonna put a sanction that they owe kuwait money .. whats the sanction  gonna say ..pay up ?

what sanctions are applied to iraq right now until the debt is paid ..  just the debt must be paid ?

 

all chapter 7 is .. is that force and sanctions can be used under chapter 7 ..

 

 whos gonna use military force  now over  money ?

their are no sanctions on iraq any more .. unless you can name them

 

I don't think this is about the $11 billion, when you look at other news it  seems more likely 

 

this is about getting Iraq to do something. Like rv maybe? Look at these 

 

 

It is clear from recent articles that the U.N. is putting pressure on Iraq since 

 

they let them out of ch 7. Threats of civil war, somehow Foreign fighters getting 

 

in to threaten Ramadan, and now a semi harsh reminder out of thin air about the

 

remaining 11 billion owed to Kuwait, and the ramifications of that not being paid.

 

Ya boys I think you better do something or get off the pot. Your about to have your

 

world ROCKED!   

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154198-un-urges-iraq-to-pay-11-billion-to-kuwait/#ixzz2Yw18giy0

 

Add to that now we have seen 

 

the U.N. state twice after they released Iraq from ch 7 that Iraq is on the verge of civil war.

 

I take such a statement as a threat to Iraq by the U.N. .  My thinking on this is simple, doesn't

 

it make the U.N. look culpable for letting Iraq out of ch 7 only to allow civil war? More like,

 

"get this done or civil war will come". Just some studied speculation from a lowly truck driver

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154200-maliki-receives-phone-call-from-biden-and-looking-with-developments-in-iraq-and-syria/#ixzz2Yw272dV8

 

Foreign fighters who entered Iraq to implement the "Battle of Ramadan" in the "Saladin"

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154206-foreign-fighters-who-entered-iraq-to-implement-the-battle-of-ramadan-in-the-saladin/#ixzz2Yw2npZCG

 

As Sandfly asked, how did they get there? Probably with the help of the CIA and the U.N. 

 

Biden calls for a tripartite meeting between Maliki and Barzani Najafi and emphasizes the need for convergence between the blocks to spare Iraq risks chaos

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154200-maliki-receives-phone-call-from-biden-and-looking-with-developments-in-iraq-and-syria/page-2#ixzz2Yw3RUdnk

 

For me this is as clear a day, THERE THREATENING THEM!

 

 

[Alex38]

^{Adam says Iraq is out of chapter 7.he knows a lot more than me so when he says it then it is true.PERIOD!}

I'd be careful with that thought process.

[dontlop]

there is nothing that any  military action  could  change ..  i suppose they could sanction iraq  if they  decide to flip off kuwait  and  not pay the 11 billion , and tell the un  to buzz off .... chapter 7 isnt a sanction .. it just gives the ability  to use sanctions and military action  if necessary to enforce other resolutions .

 

from what i read iraq is back to where they were  before un resolution 661 . which is resolution 660 .. which is all the demands made on iraq after he invaded  kuwait ..

 

once 661 came into play .. more sanctions were put in place throughout the years .. and saddam continued to be non compliant ..

 

un resolution 1441  was eventually  passed .. Resolution 1441, was adopted under Chapter VII. Chapter VII gives the Council the authority to determine the existence of a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, and to take action accordingly. 

 

 

 

 the united states found  saddam in violation of   un resolution 1441  and argued outside of 1441 with joint resolution 114 from the joint congress house and senate voting to give bush the power to use force if necessary ..

 

Finally, the United States government has argued, wholly apart from Resolution 1441, that it has a right of pre-emptive self defense to protect itself from terrorism fomented by Iraq. For discussion of pre-emptive self-defense in the terrorism context, see the ASIL Insight, "Pre-emptive Action to Forestall Terrorism" (June 2002).

 

 

at that point we had speech after speech in congress about  iraqs threat .. by democrats and republicans . by  bill clinton .. al gore .. george tennant .  on and on .. you can google democrats speechs on saddam in 2002 ..we have all seen the quotes by the democrats  about saddams wmds and threat to  peace  ..

 

 joint resolution 114  was written by congress voted on and passed.. which included the iraqi liberation act  joint resolution 114 that was signed into law by bill clinton .. ..and then sent to  president bush ..which he signed into law ..

 

 i dont see one reason for military force being used in iraq today .unless  iraq doesnt cooperate in the war on terrorism and helps forment terrorism in iraq .. . their domestic matters are their matters .. although they could use chapter 7 provisions again if necessary  just like they can use chapter 7 provisions  against any country for non compliance to security council resolutions .

Edited July 13, 2013 by dontlop

[Thumper]

Chapter 7 is done.  I am tired of these posts.

[dontlop]

Chapter 7 is done.  I am tired of these posts.

yes i agree ..

[dontlop]

just a correction in above ,,//;';'[]//

 

 

 

joint resolution 114 was written by congress voted on and passed.. which included the iraqi liberation act that was signed into law  in 1998 by bill clinton  and included in  joint resolution 114  ..and then sent to president bush ..which he signed into law ..

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154329-further-proof-that-chapter-7-is-not-totally-lifted/#ixzz2YwPSu142

[waterman13]

Done. (period)

WM13

[MyLadiesDaddy]

 i dont see one reason for military force being used in iraq today .unless  iraq doesnt cooperate in the war on terrorism and helps forment terrorism in iraq

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154329-further-proof-that-chapter-7-is-not-totally-lifted/#ixzz2YwUPL1sK

 

You are correct, and I know better than to debate you on any subject. However, suppose that this entire 

 

thing was just some grand plan concocted for the sole purpose of money. IE getting Iraq to rv their currency 

 

thereby causing the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind. Further, suppose that all of the sudden 

 

Iraq decided that they no longer wanted to play along. I would submit to you that wars have been started for 

 

much less. If that is the case I don't think the powers that be would let anything stop them from getting justice.

 

At least in their eyes. Remember it cost trillions of dollars to bring Iraq to where they are today. For them not

 

to bring the, "PLAN", to fruition could be very devastating to them. 

[zul]

I was unable to post the link to this article as it came from another site, and was not allowed, sorry.

 

Those who have stated that Iraq is “out of Chapter 7″ simply do not do their research and the claim is unfounded. There is still many obligations for Iraq to comply with.

 

 

http://www.presstv.i...from-chapter-7/ 

UN diplomatic sources say the only issues regarding Iraq's invasion of Kuwait which remain under Chapter 7 are an arms ban and the country’s payment of USD 52 billion in compensation to Kuwait.

Iraq still owes USD 11 billion to Kuwait. It hopes to settle it by 2015.

 

Neg me all you want.  Yeah, I don’t have many posts, and yeah, I have not been in this as long as a lot of you.  I’ve only been in this for a bit over 2 years.  Doesn’t mean I’m wrong.  When I posted my first comments I got froze out by the mods for darn near 48 hours just because no one wanted to hear the truth.  We’ll see how long they lock me out this time.   CENSORSHIP IS ALIVE!!!  And lord help anyone who rocks the boat.  lol

 

Here are the links to the UN documents that I got the texts out of.

 

 http://www.un.org/Ne...sc11050.doc.htm

 

 http://www.un.org/ap...it#.UdB6BlOd7zf

 

 

UN diplomatic sources say the only issues regarding Iraq's invasion of Kuwait which remain under Chapter 7 are an arms ban and the country’s payment of USD 52 billion in compensation to Kuwait.

Iraq still owes USD 11 billion to Kuwait. It hopes to settle it by 2015.

 

So what is Iraq's obligation on the payment of compensation to Kuwait..? Iraq does not make payment to Kuwait. All payment on the outstanding amount of compensation are administered by the United Nations Compensation Commission, which includes deducting 5% from Iraqi oil sales and making payment to Kuwait. 

Edited July 13, 2013 by zul

[Rayzur]

The way I understand it is...

Iraq is out if Chp 7 mostly... And free to conduct international business. Vital provisions were moved to Chp 6. There are still some things that remain in Chp 7 status but are not relevant to the RV.

 

That was a much simpler way to state the essence of it for the purposes of this endeavor