The new currency

[whatsthis]

I just can't walk away form this one.

You are looking at what they started with in circulation not what is in circulation now on the streets of Iraq, also keep in mind shabibi has said he was the dinar to be a reserve currency that tells me what is out side of country will not be going back to Iraq. So the last I saw was 4 trillion dinars left in the streets of Iraq & could be less by now the auction have been taking the 25k notes off the streets & they are working on getting the 10k notes off now as well they are using the dollar now & after the change the exchange rate they will make it mandatory they use dinars again so yes I believe we will see 1-1 at face value for our 25k notes.

[dinarck]

I just can't walk away form this one.

You are looking at what they started with in circulation not what is in circulation now on the streets of Iraq, also keep in mind shabibi has said he was the dinar to be a reserve currency that tells me what is out side of country will not be going back to Iraq. So the last I saw was 4 trillion dinars left in the streets of Iraq & could be less by now the auction have been taking the 25k notes off the streets & they are working on getting the 10k notes off now as well they are using the dollar now & after the change the exchange rate they will make it mandatory they use dinars again so yes I believe we will see 1-1 at face value for our 25k notes.

Sounds like Kaperoni or not-so-Breitling. The auctions do not pull anything off the streets. This has been shown repeatedly. The CBI sells Dinar to the GOI in return for USD from the sales of oil. The GOI then uses dinar to run the country. It's just daily business. If the auctions were pulling dinar from the streets then the dinar would have all disappeared long ago yet the amount in circulation continues to increase. Also ask yourself why the CBI would "pull" all the dinar from the Iraqi people and then make it worth 1000 times more. Haha...you think Saddam got it bad? That's nothing compared to what would happen to every government and banking official in the country if that happened.

[whatsthis]

Sounds like Kaperoni or not-so-Breitling. The auctions do not pull anything off the streets. This has been shown repeatedly. The CBI sells Dinar to the GOI in return for USD from the sales of oil. The GOI then uses dinar to run the country. It's just daily business. If the auctions were pulling dinar from the streets then the dinar would have all disappeared long ago yet the amount in circulation continues to increase. Also ask yourself why the CBI would "pull" all the dinar from the Iraqi people and then make it worth 1000 times more. Haha...you think Saddam got it bad? That's nothing compared to what would happen to every government and banking official in the country if that happened.

with less on the streets the value grows, & you have it wrong they buy dinars from banks not the G.O.I. that just shows you don't know or read the info in the news or what C.B.I. put out in the news. all I can say is you need to go read instead of listing to Okie or TK . I have done my research who does yours because its not you.

[nerd]

BTSC2000:

Nerd never said it wasn't ..... Just asked the question... never received an answer but that's ok .....I understand.

An answer to what? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, all I'm saying is that you decide what you post and what you posted was an obvious pumper fairy tale. You have at least some responsibility for passing it on.

Nerd....I'm responding to the statement U made. My point is regardless of the amount of money that is being made. Iraq is allowing the speculators oil or currency to benefit from the country while the people suffer

. You stated that wasn't possible.(lol)

I don't know what you are talking about. What is not possible is an RV to even one penny. Dinar speculators (at least those that bought in the last couple of years) are all going to lose and oil is providing 85% or so of all of Iraq's GDP. How Iraq uses that money is not up to the oil companies.

Nerd are you serious Iraq was run on and is still running on greed and corruption you remember Saddam? He controlled the economy... declared what the value of the dinar should be...oh and by the way had his face on the currency...oh my mistake currencies don't work that way in a corrupt country (lol....lol) Thanks for the conversation!

Greed and corruption can not magically make a nations currency more valuable. Why did the dinar fall from $3 to 1/3000th of a dollar when Saddam printed 10s of trillions of them and spent his reserves? Saddam's declarations could not make the those 10s of trillions be worth $3 each. Edited August 1, 2012 by nerd

[dinarck]

with less on the streets the value grows, & you have it wrong they buy dinars from banks not the G.O.I. that just shows you don't know or read the info in the news or what C.B.I. put out in the news. all I can say is you need to go read instead of listing to Okie or TK . I have done my research who does yours because its not you.

Calm down. You just misread what I wrote. I never said they buy dinar from the GOI. You are correct. The CBI obtains dinar from banks around Iraq and sells them to the GOI in return for USD which they then use to buy more dinar from banks to sell to the GOI yet again. The dinars they sell to the GOI just go back into the system. Nothing is being pulled from the streets.

I agree. Less currency in circulation could mean a higher valued dinar based on their current reserves but unfortunately this isn't happening. The amount in circulation and the M2 continues to grow along with their reserves which is why the dinar remains at a stable value.

If you have done your research then please explain where I am wrong. I very well could be but I don't think so.

Let me ask you then where the dinar goes that they "pull" from the streets? I have asked this question multiple times in this thread and have yet to receive an answer. If they are burning it then that seems like a huge waste seeing how they gave 10s of billions for it. If they are storing it in a vault then explain how they can make it worth 1000 times more. They would have something like 20 trillion dinar now worth 20 trillion dollars. Wow. Not bad. When can the US try this little trick?

[marknet73]

Absolutely right my friend. I'd love to believe we'll get rich off this but the math doesn't add up to a big RV. Seems to me the most likely chance is for a revenue neutral redomination and then possibly increase the value 2 or 3x or maybe increase the value to 1000 to 1 and then redominate. Either way we can make somewhat of a profit and their currency will be stronger and more valuable - just like Shabibi has said he wants to do. Just don't see how they could afford an RV over a penny at this point. Even that would be beyond my wildest expectations but of course I'd love to see it if it's in the realm of possibility.

[whatsthis]

Calm down. You just misread what I wrote. I never said they buy dinar from the GOI. You are correct. The CBI obtains dinar from banks around Iraq and sells them to the GOI in return for USD which they then use to buy more dinar from banks to sell to the GOI yet again. The dinars they sell to the GOI just go back into the system. Nothing is being pulled from the streets.

I agree. Less currency in circulation could mean a higher valued dinar based on their current reserves but unfortunately this isn't happening. The amount in circulation and the M2 continues to grow along with their reserves which is why the dinar remains at a stable value.

If you have done your research then please explain where I am wrong. I very well could be but I don't think so.

Let me ask you then where the dinar goes that they "pull" from the streets? I have asked this question multiple times in this thread and have yet to receive an answer. If they are burning it then that seems like a huge waste seeing how they gave 10s of billions for it. If they are storing it in a vault then explain how they can make it worth 1000 times more. They would have something like 20 trillion dinar now worth 20 trillion dollars. Wow. Not bad. When can the US try this little trick?

Maybe you missed the articals the C.B.I. put out showing what they are doing months back. & you must have missed Shabibi saying he needed to correct the statement "deleting the zeros to lifting the zeros".

also you have missed where Shabibi has said the the zero notes will be taken in at face value after the new lower demons come out.

and sorry if I sounded like I was bashing, I just hate the lop talk when I myself have seen thing that show no lop. & even after showing them people still think it will lop. I will say this at a 1-1 0r $2-1 dinar str8 up anthing over the $5.00 mark you might be right about a lop.

[dinarck]

Maybe you missed the articals the C.B.I. put out showing what they are doing months back. & you must have missed Shabibi saying he needed to correct the statement "deleting the zeros to lifting the zeros".

also you have missed where Shabibi has said the the zero notes will be taken in at face value after the new lower demons come out.

and sorry if I sounded like I was bashing, I just hate the lop talk when I myself have seen thing that show no lop. & even after showing them people still think it will lop. I will say this at a 1-1 0r $2-1 dinar str8 up anthing over the $5.00 mark you might be right about a lop.

Yeah I must have missed all of that. Too bad. It would have been intresting to read the head of a central bank preannouncing an upcoming 100,000% RV.

Lifting, erasing, deleting, whatever. It all means the same and that's a RD. Sorry.

I may not have caught all that you read but I did catch them say the exchange will be 1000 to 1. I also heard Shabs say multiple times that he will model the RD after Turkey. I have also heard him say redenomination over and over. He did also say that it won't increase purchasing power. Shall I go on?

[zul]

If they are burning it then that seems like a huge waste seeing how they gave 10s of billions for it. If they are storing it in a vault then explain how they can make it worth 1000 times more. They would have something like 20 trillion dinar now worth 20 trillion dollars. Wow. Not bad. When can the US try this little trick?

If burning, is a huge waste.., .why LOPping is not ..? They both reduce huge amount of cash....

Edited August 1, 2012 by zul

[dinarck]

If burning, is a huge waste.., .why LOPping is not ..? They both reduce the amount of huge cash....

What's the point of RVing your currency if you burn the vast majority of it first? Haha

Plus it would cost them 20 billion as opposed to 170 million that a RD would cost. Also how are they going to explain to their people why the removed all of the nation's currency from the people and then made it worth 1000 times more? I don't think that would go over well. Besides, the Iraqi people know that a basic redenomination is about to occur. That's why they don't care if they have USD or dinar. It's all the same to them. If Iraq was truely announcing a RV Iraqis would be killing each other for dinar yet the actual value is slipping. So Iraqis know that the CBI is planning a RD because they have been told this for months and then the CBI RVs by 1000 times?.Don't you think the Iraq's would feel deceived. Especially the ones who were using USD because it had a little better purchasing power.

[zul]

What's the point of RVing your currency if you burn the vast majority of it first? Haha

Plus it would cost them 20 billion as opposed to 170 million that a RD would cost. Also how are they going to explain to their people why the removed all of the nation's currency from the people and then made it worth 1000 times more? I don't think that would go over well. Besides, the Iraqi people know that a basic redenomination is about to occur. That's why they don't care if they have USD or dinar. It's all the same to them. If Iraq was truely announcing a RV Iraqis would be killing each other for dinar yet the actual value is slipping. So Iraqis know that the CBI is planning a RD because they have been told this for months and then the CBI RVs by 1000 times?.Don't you think the Iraq's would feel deceived. Especially the ones who were using USD because it had a little better purchasing power.

Once upon a time...people believed that planet earth was actually flat.. Can you believe that..?

They simply cannot imagine it being round.../ far beyond their wildest imagination.

[caz1104]

Once upon a time...people believed that planet earth was actually flat.. Can you believe that..?

They simply cannot imagine it being round.../ far beyond their wildest imagination.

Buuuuuuut history shows that its impossible to............................. and Iraq says..........................blah blah blah. You got to remember there are some that refuse to think outside the box,and believe whatever Iraq says or there financials state, that Iraq controls.Situations & circumstance determine reactions & results. Another words every situation has the possibility to be different. Oh to your history point, doctors used prescribe bleeding as way of curing majority of ailments,and who could forget(some wish they could) the common practice of lobotomies for mental disorders. But hey thats history.............things don't ever change do they?

Edited August 1, 2012 by caz1104

[dinarck]

I have a hard time understanding how you guys can compare ancient people's lack of understanding earth geometry and medical bleeding to 100,000% RVs. You guys can do better than that. Study a new monetary policy or figure out a logical way they could reduce the money supply but in my opinion you are grasping here and have lost the argument.

[caz1104]

I have a hard time understanding how you guys can compare ancient people's lack of understanding earth geometry and medical bleeding to 100,000% RVs. You guys can do better than that. Study a new monetary policy or figure out a logical way they could reduce the money supply but in my opinion you are grasping here and have lost the argument.

Dinarck,no argument just stating facts. But really all anyone that believes in the possibility of an RV is saying, Things change even monetary policies, and I for one do not believe anything that comes out of Iraqs mouth. They remind me wayyyyyyyyyyy to much of a gov close & dear to our hearts. Now does that mean what you say is inaccurate or will not become fact........................no. But I refuse to believe 100% either way(RD/RV) regardless of articles,statements,financials,or history. I invested knowing all of this and have no qualms with its outcome. Thanks for the respectful response...............................not bad. The only thing that is troubling to me is the continous debate/argument,nothing really has changed over the 2 years, to me its what one believes(interpretation) they are saying.

[VIZIOIRAQI]

Keepem I have read it and it says no such thing. Of course it has been spun to make it sound that way but it says nothing of the sort. I myself am guilty of reading into things in the past and jumping the gun but from what I gathered from those documents its just buisiness as usual. A while back someone (cant remember who) posted them. They had a dog or something in their avatar. I will look around as well. They are long reads but no where does it even hint to a RV.

Here is what I think he is talking about but it is from cia.gov not the IMF. Still cant figure out how they get a 3 plus rate from this. LOL

http://dinarvets.com...in/page__st__40

No thats not it and it is the IMF report I will find it . My logs of Iraq info is so big now if I printed them out it will fill my house

[BigFrankD]

No thats not it and it is the IMF report I will find it . My logs of Iraq info is so big now if I printed them out it will fill my house

There's no IMF report stating 3+ rate. I know which report you're talking about and you're completely misunderstanding it.

[dinarck]

Dinarck,no argument just stating facts. But really all anyone that believes in the possibility of an RV is saying, Things change even monetary policies, and I for one do not believe anything that comes out of Iraqs mouth. They remind me wayyyyyyyyyyy to much of a gov close & dear to our hearts. Now does that mean what you say is inaccurate or will not become fact........................no. But I refuse to believe 100% either way(RD/RV) regardless of articles,statements,financials,or history. I invested knowing all of this and have no qualms with its outcome. Thanks for the respectful response...............................not bad. The only thing that is troubling to me is the continous debate/argument,nothing really has changed over the 2 years, to me its what one believes(interpretation) they are saying.

Fair enough caz but how can you interpret what they are saying if you don't believe anything they are saying?

I don't think interpretation is even relevant any more. It's completely obvious. Even if 100,000% RVs were real which they are not then they would never announce one in advance so its clear they are speaking of a RD and they have made it clear but spinsters have done a great job of confusing with wishful thinking and lies. No, it really all comes down to what they will do and not what they are saying or how its interpreted. They will either RD like they are saying or they won't. What they definately won't do is RV by 1000 times its current value because its impossible for currencies and economics to work that way.

[Dalite]

No thats not it and it is the IMF report I will find it . My logs of Iraq info is so big now if I printed them out it will fill my house

Is this it? Google "Iraq Country Report" for the IMF assessments and requirements.

Page 19. IMF

32. The lack of data and large structural changes in the Iraqi economy preclude any meaningful estimation of the equilibrium real exchange rate. A very crude assessment suggests that the dinar is broadly in line with fundamentals. (4 )

With the drop in oil prices, it appears that a possible prior undervaluation has disappeared, and that the dinar could even be somewhat overvalued. The relative low levels of headline and core inflation, however, do not suggest any significant deviation from the equilibrium real effective exchange rate. Moreover, as oil revenues are expected to rise substantially over the medium- to longer term, the equilibrium real exchange rate is likely to rise as well. More importantly, a nominal depreciation could undermine confidence in the dinar, destabilize expectations, lead to increased dollarization, and reignite inflation, reversing the hard-won gains made in recent years. The CBI therefore intends to continue to keep the exchange rate stable, but will consult with staff if its reserves were to fall significantly below the program targets.

(4) Rough estimates based on the external sustainability approach aimed at determining the current account balance that would stabilize the country’s net foreign asset position relative to GDP suggest that the real effective exchange rate is broadly in line with the equilibrium real exchange rate. The current account norm for 2014 was estimated at a surplus of 2.9 percent of GDP. Under current projections, the current account surplus is expected to be only marginally lower than the norm in 2014.

[dinarck]

No thats not it and it is the IMF report I will find it . My logs of Iraq info is so big now if I printed them out it will fill my house

Haha..my bad. I just remember something about 3 in a past thread. I do remember reading the other document you speak of and its a long read but nothing in there says they can sustain a 3 dollar rate. Not with a M2 of 70 trillion anyway.

Wow!!!!! Hello Dalite. Good to see you. A blast from the past.

[caz1104]

Fair enough caz but how can you interpret what they are saying if you don't believe anything they are saying?

I don't think interpretation is even relevant any more. It's completely obvious. Even if 100,000% RVs were real which they are not then they would never announce one in advance so its clear they are speaking of a RD and they have made it clear but spinsters have done a great job of confusing with wishful thinking and lies. No, it really all comes down to what they will do and not what they are saying or how its interpreted. They will either RD like they are saying or they won't. What they definately won't do is RV by 1000 times its current value because its impossible for currencies and economics to work that way.

I interpret they are lying Really that was general statement as to what others might be reading into articles/statements. Time will tell who was lying and who was speaking the truth,thats why you and I are still here right?

[dinarck]

I interpret they are lying Really that was general statement as to what others might be reading into articles/statements. Time will tell who was lying and who was speaking the truth,thats why you and I are still here right?

It's ok to believe they are lying but what evidence have you seen to support that belief? The value of the dinar itself is proof that they are relatively accurate with their reporting. What do they have to gain from lying? Seems they would have more to lose since they are under the microscope of so many international organizations. I would agree that they maybe less than truthful if they were planning a true RV which would be possibly as high as 30% but to educate your entire population of an upcoming RD just to hide a massive RV that isn't even possible just doesn't register to me.

[sandstorm]

Fair enough caz but how can you interpret what they are saying if you don't believe anything they are saying?

I don't think interpretation is even relevant any more. It's completely obvious. Even if 100,000% RVs were real which they are not then they would never announce one in advance so its clear they are speaking of a RD and they have made it clear but spinsters have done a great job of confusing with wishful thinking and lies. No, it really all comes down to what they will do and not what they are saying or how its interpreted. They will either RD like they are saying or they won't. What they definately won't do is RV by 1000 times its current value because its impossible for currencies and economics to work that way.

I agree. what they are saying really isnt a debate....its been very clear. It all boils down to whether they do it or not. im still hoping they dont, which may be good odds considering they have continually kicked this down the road for so long. im hoping they have to rv several times, before they ever execute this plan. hopefully, by that point they only delete one or two zeroes. and in several years we get a tenfold return.

[caz1104]

It's ok to believe they are lying but what evidence have you seen to support that belief? The value of the dinar itself is proof that they are relatively accurate with their reporting. What do they have to gain from lying? Seems they would have more to lose since they are under the microscope of so many international organizations. I would agree that they maybe less than truthful if they were planning a true RV which would be possibly as high as 30% but to educate your entire population of an upcoming RD just to hide a massive RV that isn't even possible just doesn't register to me.

To argue/debate whether or not Iraq or any other countries gov lies is a waste of space in ones brain. Like I said earlier nothing has changed in last couple of years except a rehash of the same points over and over again,I respect your views and hope you are wrong.

[keepmwlknfny]

Is this it? Google "Iraq Country Report" for the IMF assessments and requirements.

Page 19. IMF

32. The lack of data and large structural changes in the Iraqi economy preclude any meaningful estimation of the equilibrium real exchange rate. A very crude assessment suggests that the dinar is broadly in line with fundamentals. (4 )

With the drop in oil prices, it appears that a possible prior undervaluation has disappeared, and that the dinar could even be somewhat overvalued. The relative low levels of headline and core inflation, however, do not suggest any significant deviation from the equilibrium real effective exchange rate. Moreover, as oil revenues are expected to rise substantially over the medium- to longer term, the equilibrium real exchange rate is likely to rise as well. More importantly, a nominal depreciation could undermine confidence in the dinar, destabilize expectations, lead to increased dollarization, and reignite inflation, reversing the hard-won gains made in recent years. The CBI therefore intends to continue to keep the exchange rate stable, but will consult with staff if its reserves were to fall significantly below the program targets.

(4) Rough estimates based on the external sustainability approach aimed at determining the current account balance that would stabilize the country’s net foreign asset position relative to GDP suggest that the real effective exchange rate is broadly in line with the equilibrium real exchange rate. The current account norm for 2014 was estimated at a surplus of 2.9 percent of GDP. Under current projections, the current account surplus is expected to be only marginally lower than the norm in 2014.

Thanks Dalite! Nice to see you again buddy!

As far as I can remember I have never seen an IMF document stating they can support a much higher rate then what is present and this pretty much confirms what I was thinking....

[nerd]

To argue/debate whether or not Iraq or any other countries gov lies is a waste of space in ones brain. Like I said earlier nothing has changed in last couple of years except a rehash of the same points over and over again,I respect your views and hope you are wrong.

If you are talking about the RD articles being lies, why would they bother as opposed to just saying nothing? i.e. the currency is clearly working at least OK as it is so just say you will leave it alone. That is completely unambiguous. An RD requires that the entire population knows about it so they have to talk about it where as an RV likely only needs a tiny handful of folks to know. So if an RV is the real plan, it makes no sense to me that they would talk about currency plans at all.

if you are talking about the CBI financials they of course could be (and likely are) off by some amount, but there are big factors indicating they are at least about correct.

* There are many external factors that match up. The GOI budget and the amount it is actually spending. The amount of oil being pumped, being sold, being delivered to buyers, and the price they paid for it. The state of the dinar itself. The fit of the size of the money supply to Iraq's GDP (much smaller and their economy would freeze up).

* Can you think of a single case in all of history when a country or financial institution misreported their numbers and they turned out to be vastly BETTER than they reported? Such inaccurate reports invariably over estimate assets (reserves in this case) and under estimate liabilities (the size of the money supply). So if the numbers are significantly off its more likely they are off that the dinar is worth even LESS than it is set to and an RV is even harder than it seems, not easier. Though even here I can't see how they would be off by more than say 10%.

* Above all else Iraq wants acceptance into the global club and perpetrating a fraud on the group (the UST, the IMF, the World Bank, the WTO, OPEC, etc) does not seem like a good way to gain that acceptance. For all those organizations to be "in on it", that would mean many thousands of people would know about this and that is far too many to keep it secret.

I see no way that the CBI's numbers can be off by even 2x let alone 1000x as some (maybe not you Caz) claim. Could they be off by 5% or even 10%? sure, but not significantly more.

Edited August 1, 2012 by nerd