The new currency

[dinarck]

IMO, I am sure they have a mechanism in place where they can absorb -- sterilize -- the excess liquidity. Ha! Ha!

Well, we simply just vary on the validity of the information coming from the CBI, and how they are going to account for their upcoming RD. I just hope it is like last time with the old ID'S and that there is a 1 to 1 exchange. I'll just leave it at that.

Take care Dinarck!

You take care too bamjack but I have to say, I feel sorry for those Iraqis or even foreigners who electronic liquidity gets " absorbed".

There is only 70 billion USD worth of dinar in exsitence. That is real wealth. You cant just absorb it. Lol

Edited July 31, 2012 by dinarck

[keepmwlknfny]

Well, nothing new to learn here. I, for one, do not believe the numbers from the CBI. The physical currency (M0) is the most important key to this whole debate. No one knows what the numbers are, on this forum, nor will the CBI present them. I wonder why? The majority of the M2 is electronic. For some reason, The CBI has increased the rate on the dinar without regards to an ever-growing M2. They're not paying attention it, so I guess I want. Anyway, back to the news.

Bamjack.....if you check the financials they do list the amount of currency issued and what is outside the banks.....whatever is outside the banks vaults would be considered what is in circulation....

[powerpager]

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[zul]

Well, for one they have already told us numerous times that the exchange will be 1000 to 1 just like a basic redenomination.

Numerous times Shabibi said he will delete these zeros GRADUALLY.......and in STAGES. Doesn't sound like basic redenominations to me.

If delete the zeros means LOP, how do you suppose Shabibi will REMOVE these zeros gradually and in stages, One zero at a time, perhaps..?

Baghdad (News) ..

قال محافظ البنك المركزي العراقي سنان الشبيبي ان عملية رفع الاصفار من العملة العراقية (الدينار) لن تؤثر على قوتها كون هذه الاصفار ستحذف بشكل تدريجي وعلى مراحل.ونفى الشبيبي في مؤتمر صحفي حضرته(الوكالة الاخب

Said the Iraqi Central Bank Governor Sinan al-Shabibi that the process of lifting of the zeroes of the Iraqi currency (the dinar) will not affect the power that these zeros will be removed gradually and in stages

[easyrider]

Numerous times Shabibi said he will delete these zeros GRADUALLY.......and in STAGES. Doesn't sound like basic redenominations to me.

If delete the zeros means LOP, how do you suppose Shabibi will REMOVE these zeros gradually and in stages, One zero at a time, perhaps..?

good thinking.. not only that is i have read numerous times they will gradually introduce the lower denoms as well i think we will see that process sometime in the last quarter of this year while they have the new printed currency in 2013.

[dinarck]

Numerous times Shabibi said he will delete these zeros GRADUALLY.......and in STAGES. Doesn't sound like basic redenominations to me.

If delete the zeros means LOP, how do you suppose Shabibi will REMOVE these zeros gradually and in stages, One zero at a time, perhaps..?

We have already seen numerous articles in the past speaking of the stages that they will implement the Redenomination.

Stage one.....planning and economic conditioning.

Stage two.....I think media campaign and design and printing of new currency.

Stage three....introduction of new currency and gradual removal of the old.

Something like that anyway.

Of course RDs are done in stages. They aren't going to just one day say....o yeah by the way we have this new currency. Come exchange for it. Lol.

When shabs says he will remove zeros gradually its just a translation issue meaning there are multiple steps to introduce the new currency and gradually remove the old.

You didn't really think they were talking about removing 000 notes gradually and then RVing by 100,000% did you Zul?

[zul]

good thinking.. not only that is i have read numerous times they will gradually introduce the lower denoms as well i think we will see that process sometime in the last quarter of this year while they have the new printed currency in 2013.

That's exactly what they will be doing Easy

Central Bank of Iraq announced, on January 2012, it is determined to release 3 Iraqi dinar bills of high value i.e. 200, 100 and 50 dinars after the cutting off of zeros from the currency. Dinar redenomination requires 2 years, Central Bank of Iraq informed.

*** 50 dinar is not currently in circulation in Iraq..( for obvious reason)

[dinarck]

good thinking.. not only that is i have read numerous times they will gradually introduce the lower denoms as well i think we will see that process sometime in the last quarter of this year while they have the new printed currency in 2013.

So how are they going to make the exchange? 100 of the new 200 notes and 50 of the new 100 notes for each 25,000 note? Or will it all be electronic? Lol. Don't you think maybe they might need electricity first? Iraq is a cash based society. That isn't going to change anytime soon. Plus Iraqis have zero trust in banks.

Seems more realistic that Iraqis will receive 1 new 25 note for each of their 25,000 notes. That's how RDs like Iraq is describing work.

That's exactly what they will be doing Easy

*** 50 dinar is not currently in circulation in Iraq..( for obvious reason)

Huh?

[zul]

We have already seen numerous articles in the past speaking of the stages that they will implement the Redenomination.

Stage one.....planning and economic conditioning.

Stage two.....I think media campaign and design and printing of new currency.

Stage three....introduction of new currency and gradual removal of the old.

Something like that anyway.

Of course RDs are done in stages. They aren't going to just one day say....o yeah by the way we have this new currency. Come exchange for it. Lol.

When shabs says he will remove zeros gradually its just a translation issue meaning there are multiple steps to introduce the new currency and gradually remove the old.

You didn't really think they were talking about removing 000 notes gradually and then RVing by 100,000% did you Zul?

That's excatly what i think Shabibi meant when he said THESE ZEROS WILL BE REMOVE GRADUALLY dinarck...~ .remove 3 zeros notes from circulation, gradually and in stages.....

"....Said the Iraqi Central Bank Governor Sinan al-Shabibi that the process of lifting of the zeroes of the Iraqi currency (the dinar) will not affect the power that these zeros will be removed gradually and in stages "

[bamjack75]

Iraq's last RD only took 3 month's. Why all the preparation for this next one?

[dinarck]

That's excatly what i think Shabibi meant when he said THESE ZEROS WILL BE REMOVE GRADUALLY dinarck...~ .remove 3 zeros notes from circulation, gradually and in stages.....

"....Said the Iraqi Central Bank Governor Sinan al-Shabibi that the process of lifting of the zeroes of the Iraqi currency (the dinar) will not affect the power that these zeros will be removed gradually and in stages "

Ok so what are they giving for these 000 notes in exchange? USD? Euros? Afterall this is real money we are talking about. How are they removing them? What are they doing with them once they are removed? Why would they remove their own currency from circulation after printing it and putting it there? What about the trillions held by speculators?

So in your opinion they are removing 000 notes and then what? Burning them? So they are burning billions worth of wealth? Maybe they are storing them in a vault. Ok great. Then they get to make them worth 1000 times more? How nice that must be. Guaranteed 100,000% return. Too bad for the Iraqis they removed them from though.

Now my opinion which is the post above. Yeah...I think it clear which makes more sense.

What about them saying straight up 1000 to 1 exchange? What about them saying trillions to billions? What about them saying no increase in purchasing power? What about them using Turkey as a model? What about common sense? What about making transactions easier? What about them using the word redenomination over and over including the article you just posted? What about the fact that they would never preannounce an increase in their currency by 1000 times its currenct value? What about the fact that an increase of that magnitude could never happen in economics? What about the fact that it is absolutely crystal clear that a basic RD is what is going on?

I think that about covers it.

Iraq's last RD only took 3 month's. Why all the preparation for this next one?

Why all the intrest in the time it takes to RD? Lol..... Let me ask you why its taking so long for them to "RV"? RDs are more successful if done in the right economic conditions. How many articles have we seen that economist and even the CBI are worried the time may not be right and a stronger economy maybe preferred before "removing the zeros" hence RD. The GOI even stopped it in its tracks for more study but the CBI is going ahead anyway it seems.

[bamjack75]

Dinarck,

Do you believe that Iraq will have to cover the upcoming RD, 100%. In other words, if they have mentioned in their articles that they are taking the money supply down to 25 billion; would that say to you they would raise the exchange rate to $3.00 ( + ), since they have 75 Billion USD value in reserves?. I think they have mentioned that they wanted to return the dinar to its former prominence. Do you have any optimism in this happening? I have seen where some have suggested that Iraq has more than 100 billion in reserves. Do you have any information stating that Iraq has to back 1 to 1 their currency with their reserves? Why not a 10/90%?

[dinarck]

Dinarck,

Do you believe that Iraq will have to cover the upcoming RD, 100%. In other words, if they have mentioned in their articles that they are taking the money supply down to 25 billion; would that say to you they would raise the exchange rate to $3.00 ( + ), since they have 75 Billion USD value in reserves?. I think they have mentioned that they wanted to return the dinar to its former prominence. Do you have any optimism in this happening? I have seen where some have suggested that Iraq has more than 100 billion in reserves. Do you have any information stating that Iraq has to back 1 to 1 their currency with their reserves? Why not a 10/90%?

Yes. They will cover it 100% but they have to cover their entire M2 not just what is outside of banks. So if they RD they will have a 70 billion M2 backed by an over 60 billion in reserves. Problem here is speculators then dumping their dinar. I am sure the CBI is concerned but ready for this. Whatever dinar that comes back to the CBI will be exchanged for foreign currency from their reserves. As long as the balance is stable the value of the new currency will not faulter. This is a big reason we see the counterfeit articles constantly. The CBI doesnt want to pay reserves for fake dinar.

[zul]

Ok so what are they giving for these 000 notes in exchange? USD? Euros? Afterall this is real money we are talking about. How are they removing them? What are they doing with them once they are removed? Why would they remove their own currency from circulation after printing it and putting it there? What about the trillions held by speculators?

So in your opinion they are removing 000 notes and then what? Burning them? So they are burning billions worth of wealth? Maybe they are storing them in a vault. Ok great. Then they get to make them worth 1000 times more? How nice that must be. Guaranteed 100,000% return. Too bad for the Iraqis they removed them from though.

Now my opinion which is the post above. Yeah...I think it clear which makes more sense.

What about them saying straight up 1000 to 1 exchange? What about them saying trillions to billions? What about them saying no increase in purchasing power? What about them using Turkey as a model? What about common sense? What about making transactions easier? What about them using the word redenomination over and over including the article you just posted? What about the fact that they would never preannounce an increase in their currency by 1000 times its currenct value? What about the fact that an increase of that magnitude could never happen in economics? What about the fact that it is absolutely crystal clear that a basic RD is what is going on?

I think that about covers it.

Relax Dinarck...., I'm just repeating what Shabibi is saying....

You said so yourself, (and conveniently, i must add), that this is just a translation issue.

As to how they are going to remove this..., that''s quite simple. The new and the old notes will co-exist ~ meaning Iraqis will use these notes

As and when the 3 zeros notes reaches the banks, those notes will be retired. They could also use auctions to remove currencies from circulation ~ contractionary policy.

As for the burning of old currency ~ they are just papers. The value (wealth) will be transfered to the new currency. They burn retired money (wear and tear) all the time...

What about trillions IQD held by speculators..? Yeah..what about them..? Do you know that Iraq could actually "RV" all those trillions, pull them back (via open market operations) and then make trillions more (via fractional banking)..? Think outside the "tank" Dinarck.

[dinarck]

Relax Dinarck...., I'm just repeating what Shabibi is saying....

You said so yourself, (and conveniently, i must add), that this is just a translation issue.

As to how they are going to remove this..., that''s quite simple. The new and the old notes will co-exist ~ meaning Iraqis will use these notes

As and when the 3 zeros notes reaches the banks, those notes will be retired. They could also use auctions to remove currencies from circulation ~ contractionary policy.

As for the burning of old currency ~ they are just papers. The value (wealth) will be transfered to the new currency. They burn retired money (wear and tear) all the time...

What about trillions IQD held by speculators..? Yeah..what about them..? Do you know that Iraq could actually "RV" all those trillions, pull them back (via open market operations) and then make trillions more (via fractional banking)..? Think outside the "tank" Dinarck.

Sorry Zul I have to disagree. Iraq doesnt have trillions to pay specualtors and even if they did they wouldnt. They would simply RD and continue raking in the dough with sales of oil. Plus no one is going tyo buy dinar after it RVs by 100,000%. Why would they buy a currency thats about to tank due to massive inflation that a RV like that would cause?

"As to how they are going to remove this..., that''s quite simple. The new and the old notes will co-exist ~ meaning Iraqis will use these notes

As and when the 3 zeros notes reaches the banks, those notes will be retired."

You just described a redenomination to a tee right there. This is what Iraq is planning and what they are trying to implement just at 1000 to 1 instead of an impossible 1 to 1.

[bamjack75]

Yes. They will cover it 100% but they have to cover their entire M2 not just what is outside of banks. So if they RD they will have a 70 billion M2 backed by an over 60 billion in reserves. Problem here is speculators then dumping their dinar. I am sure the CBI is concerned but ready for this. Whatever dinar that comes back to the CBI will be exchanged for foreign currency from their reserves. As long as the balance is stable the value of the new currency will not faulter. This is a big reason we see the counterfeit articles constantly. The CBI doesnt want to pay reserves for fake dinar.

Well, thanks for your response and perspective. You were the best thing going tonight. I don't agree with everything you stated but I am reasonable enough to accept as a possibility. Good night!

[dinarck]

Dinarck,

Do you believe that Iraq will have to cover the upcoming RD, 100%. In other words, if they have mentioned in their articles that they are taking the money supply down to 25 billion; would that say to you they would raise the exchange rate to $3.00 ( + ), since they have 75 Billion USD value in reserves?. I think they have mentioned that they wanted to return the dinar to its former prominence. Do you have any optimism in this happening? I have seen where some have suggested that Iraq has more than 100 billion in reserves. Do you have any information stating that Iraq has to back 1 to 1 their currency with their reserves? Why not a 10/90%?

Sorry Bamjack. I didnt address your last question.

From what I understand Iraq is under agreement with the IMF that they will back their currency 100%. Also I think Muslim banking practices demand it. This could change but I doubt it while the dinar is pegged. The whole reason it is pegged is for stability. Not backing their currency 100% would defeate the whole purpose of trying to remain stable with their peg. They are a developing nation and rebuilding. They dont need to be printing more currency than they can back. Especially when they are floating on oil.

[zul]

Sorry Zul I have to disagree. Iraq doesnt have trillions to pay specualtors and even if they did they wouldnt. They would simply RD and continue raking in the dough with sales of oil. Plus no one is going tyo buy dinar after it RVs by 100,000%. Why would they buy a currency thats about to tank due to massive inflation that a RV like that would cause?

"As to how they are going to remove this..., that''s quite simple. The new and the old notes will co-exist ~ meaning Iraqis will use these notes

As and when the 3 zeros notes reaches the banks, those notes will be retired."

You just described a redenomination to a tee right there. This is what Iraq is planning and what they are trying to implement just at 1000 to 1 instead of an impossible 1 to 1.

Ok to disagree Dinarck....

I never said..Iraq have to have trillions to pay for the RV. Here's the clue...a bank does not have to have a billion to loan a billion...

And no, i did not described a RD. I was describing how 3 zeros notes could be removed. RV or RD, they will have to remove the 3 zeros notes, eventually..

[ayrnay22]

Thank you bama zul and dinarck an actually exchange of opinion without name calling wish I could add more still learning hopefully something good comes from this whole investment or speculation

Edited July 31, 2012 by ayrnay22

[zul]

Thank you bama zul and dinarck an actually exchange of opinion without name calling wish I could add more still learning hopefully something good comes from this whole investment or speculation

[rightsonword]

[dinarck]

Ok to disagree Dinarck....

I never said..Iraq have to have trillions to pay for the RV. Here's the clue...a bank does not have to have a billion to loan a billion...

And no, i did not described a RD. I was describing how 3 zeros notes could be removed. RV or RD, they will have to remove the 3 zeros notes, eventually..

From what I am reading I think you are saying that the CBI will RV their own currency so that they will then have trillions to pay out speculators.

Or maybe what I am reading is that the CBI doesnt need trillions to pay out speculators because it will be done through banks electronically somehow. Well I hope someone has told the banks that they are about to be giving away billions.

Maybe the US treasury will pay for it? How will that work? Go ahead and print another trillion or so? The FED has to do that. What are they getting out of it? Oil?

The whole fractional banking thing sounded great when I got into this thing but really it is great for everyone but Iraq since it is their oil they will be giving away for nothing. Plus fractional banking only works by banks lending money. Is the bank gonna lend me the money for my cash out or is the Fed gonna lend the bank my money for cash out? Good luck ever getting that loan repaid. Dont you think maybe there is enough USD floating around out there anyhow?

Lets face it. There is absolutely no way Iraq could or even would if they could RV to 1. It would ruin them. Things like this are absent in economics for a reason. That reason is it could never work. If countries could RV to those numbers they would have done it over and over and it would have failed miserably over and over. No, instead we see countries print more than they can back and go into a spin of hyperinflation. That is really no differnt than a 100,000 RV would be. Then when they find themselves in this hyperinflated state, what do they do? RV out of it? No, they perform a redenomination because that it what is done to hyperinflated currencies. There is nothing else. No fractional banking, no magic conspiracy, no "plan" by global elites. Just a simple economic tool used by over 70 countries in the past to try and remove themselves from a hyperinflated state. Its called a redenomination and Iraq has been telling us for years that they need to do one. Now that they are almost ready and are even printing the new currency, "investors" online still think they are talking about a 100,000% overnight RV and are actually preannouncing it to the world.

Come on everyone. Am I really the bad guy here? Think for a minute. Who is really sinister with their motives? Me who is just posting common sense and what is obviousy right in front of all of our faces or the many who spin and confuse with misinformation and straight out lies so that they can continue to profit from the dinar saga? I think its clear.

Edited July 31, 2012 by dinarck

[doctor robbins]

The 50 dinar note is still in circulation. My link

They're not too popular and I'm sure there aren't as many of them but they're still in circulation. You can still buy them, in fact. And if you go to Iraq you can use them.

As for Shabibi saying he will delete the zeros in phases, that's not exactly what he said. The CBI has talked about the "Delete the Zeros" project having phases. First they print the currency, then they change the exchange rate (delete three zeros to make it $.86), then they introduce the new currency and remove the old currency.

http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/98865-iraq-finance-committee-announces-the-end-of-the-first-phase-of-the-project-to-delete-the-zeros-from-the-currency/

Edited July 31, 2012 by doctor robbins

[zul]

The 50 dinar note is still in circulation. My link

They're not too popular and I'm sure there aren't as many of them but they're still in circulation. You can still buy them, in fact. And if you go to Iraq you can use them.

As for Shabibi saying he will delete the zeros in phases, that's not exactly what he said. The CBI has talked about the "Delete the Zeros" project having phases. First they print the currency, then they change the exchange rate (delete three zeros to make it $.86), then they introduce the new currency and remove the old currency.

http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/98865-iraq-finance-committee-announces-the-end-of-the-first-phase-of-the-project-to-delete-the-zeros-from-the-currency/

Problem is, that was EXACTLY what Shabibi said....

Shabibi: raising the zeroes of the Iraqi currency will be gradually

بغداد(الاخبارية)..

Baghdad (News) ..

قال محافظ البنك المركزي العراقي سنان الشبيبي ان عملية رفع الاصفار من العملة العراقية (الدينار) لن تؤثر على قوتها كون هذه الاصفار ستحذف بشكل تدريجي وعلى مراحل.ونفى الشبيبي في مؤتمر صحفي حضرته(الوكالة الاخب

Said the Iraqi Central Bank Governor Sinan al-Shabibi that the process of lifting of the zeroes of the Iraqi currency (the dinar) will not affect the power that these zeros will be removed gradually and in stages. Denied Shabibi at a news conference attended by the (agency's news news) displays the documents the bank and archive files on Ptamlath internal and external for any damage to art during the recent offensive launched by the armed group in the thirteenth of this month and said: "The burning of the Central Bank did not lead to destruction of memory and archive the bank, there are additional memory reservation and occur on a daily basis reserved for our safe locations, very protected and can not be accessed before any hand, and burnt all the documents do not reveal a few secrets of trading the bank. and on the extent of the damage he said was not affected in any significant degree and published in the media is incorrect and exaggerated, referring to the deaths of 12 of the guards of the bank / Finished / (j. n)

As for 50 dinar note, my bad........" In 2003, new banknotes were issued consisting of six denominations: 50, 250, 1,000, 5,000, 10,000, and 25,000 dinar. The notes were similar in design to notes issued by theCentral Bank of Iraq in the 1970s and 1980s. A 500 dinars note was issued a year later, in October 2004. In the Kurdish regions of Iraq, the 50 dinar note is not in circulation."

From what I am reading I think you are saying that the CBI will RV their own currency so that they will then have trillions to pay out speculators.

Or maybe what I am reading is that the CBI doesnt need trillions to pay out speculators because it will be done through banks electronically somehow. Well I hope someone has told the banks that they are about to be giving away billions.

Maybe the US treasury will pay for it? How will that work? Go ahead and print another trillion or so? The FED has to do that. What are they getting out of it? Oil?

The whole fractional banking thing sounded great when I got into this thing but really it is great for everyone but Iraq since it is their oil they will be giving away for nothing. Plus fractional banking only works by banks lending money. Is the bank gonna lend me the money for my cash out or is the Fed gonna lend the bank my money for cash out? Good luck ever getting that loan repaid. Dont you think maybe there is enough USD floating around out there anyhow?

Lets face it. There is absolutely no way Iraq could or even would if they could RV to 1. It would ruin them. Things like this are absent in economics for a reason. That reason is it could never work. If countries could RV to those numbers they would have done it over and over and it would have failed miserably over and over. No, instead we see countries print more than they can back and go into a spin of hyperinflation. That is really no differnt than a 100,000 RV would be. Then when they find themselves in this hyperinflated state, what do they do? RV out of it? No, they perform a redenomination because that it what is done to hyperinflated currencies. There is nothing else. No fractional banking, no magic conspiracy, no "plan" by global elites. Just a simple economic tool used by over 70 countries in the past to try and remove themselves from a hyperinflated state. Its called a redenomination and Iraq has been telling us for years that they need to do one. Now that they are almost ready and are even printing the new currency, "investors" online still think they are talking about a 100,000% overnight RV and are actually preannouncing it to the world.

Come on everyone. Am I really the bad guy here? Think for a minute. Who is really sinister with their motives? Me who is just posting common sense and what is obviousy right in front of all of our faces or the many who spin and confuse with misinformation and straight out lies so that they can continue to profit from the dinar saga? I think its clear.

Dinarck, if you keep thinking “ RV will ruin Iraq”, “Iraq will have to pay trillions to speculators” or how will Fed pay for RV….print trillions more dollars..?? , your parameters will be limited - to speculators line of thought

But, if you are Iraq (CBI and GOI)..…, given the task to : ~ RV your currency, return wealth to the your people, pull back trillions of dinars outside banks (including from speculators, internal & external); without ruining your economy and without having to give away your oil for the next thousand years. You will think differently Good luck…

[doctor robbins]

"Said the Iraqi Central Bank Governor Sinan al-Shabibi that the process of lifting of the zeroes of the Iraqi currency (the dinar) will not affect the power that these zeros will be removed gradually and in stages"

As I showed in my link he was referring to the project being done in phases. I don't know where your quote came from because you didn't provide a link but it still seems clear to me that the reference was to the project or process.