The new currency

[seetrader1]

They are printing new...Should be released in January.

I got a negative for posting this. Are you freakin serious? LOL

[Monielynn]

I got a negative for posting this. Are you freakin serious? LOL

I gave U a + just to balance U out ... just because cause I COULD lol :D

It's here in the forum I will dig it up for ya Bro !!!

I still c ur support ... Just Say'n lmfao

Edited August 1, 2012 by VIZIOIRAQI

[nerd]

Greetings Dinarck,

Please read and let me know your thoughts. FYI.....You should be able to verify the current amount of DFI funds on the UN website.

THIS POST DOES NOT BELONG TO ME IT WAS POSTED IN OCT. 2010........ THOUGHT IT MIGHT HELP WITH INSIGHT ON WHERE WE ARE NOW AND WHERE WE"RE HEADED......

Cool, I understand you are just passing this on. But still I will scold you a little for not reading this with a more critical eye. CLEARLY this is just written by a pumper and not a state department economist. Here are a few of the glaring problems.

(2) We raised the issue of the large number of IQD reported as being in circulation (current estimates are at 25 Trillion). He indicated this was mostly made up of (1) in country physical currency, (2) the foreign currency reserves of the central banks around the world which are electronic, (3) currency that had been printed but not released (i.e. small denomination bills) and (4) privately held physical currency sold to increase the foreign currency reserves.

So 25T dinar is referring to M1. But whether it is M0, M1, or M2, notes printed but not issued are irrelevant. The CBI is the only entity that can issue Iraqi Dinars, both electronically and physically. There is an infinite supply of electronic dinar that have not been issued, but are "printed" so to speak, so if this was correct that would make M1 infinite. Further there has never been any evidence that foreign central banks are holding dinar.

The example was a 25,000 IQD=$25USD/pre-rv note would be brought into the bank and exchanged for a 25 IQD note=$25 USD post/rv. The 25,000 IQD note would then be destroyed removing it from the currency in circulation account.

So this is an RD. A 25,000 IQD in and a 25 NID out. It has to be different currency as within one exchange rate it must be true that 1 x 25,000 = 1000 x 25. The only way to make 25,000 = 25 is for there to be a different exchange rate applied to each side of the equations. Keep in mind that while many times to make the example easy people talk about a single note, but in reality its just X dinars changed into X new dinars. When a business totalis up its books at the end of the day they don't track the number of each type of note but just the total amount.

(1) IQD is released internationally with an exchange rate of $1 USD = 1 IQD

So what this is saying is that INside Iraq its an RD. Iraqis trade 1000 IQD (= to $25) for 1 NID (also = to $25) for no change in value. But, outside Iraq its 1000 IQD traded for 1000 USD for a 1000x increase in value. Clearly this is impossible. It would be a sort of economic short circuit and all the IQD in Iraq would be sucked out of the country in about 12 milliseconds. Why would Iraq do something that gives them no increase but helps speculators get a 100,000% return? no way. Currency only works if it is (roughly) valued the same no matter which side of the border you are standing on.

Clearly this is just pumper spewage. So again no fault to you BT for posting it, but a little fault for not reading it more critically.

[doctor robbins]

Great observations, nerd. In effect this post is saying that Iraq is going to give trillions of dollars worth of oil away so that dinar investors will be rich. Sweet, huh?

[VIZIOIRAQI]

No, according to the CBI, M2 is approx 72T with 30T in PHYSICAL currency.

I'm talking about after they remove the Zero's not what it says now

Sumerian News / Baghdad Central Bank of Iraq, Tuesday, that the deletion of zeros from the currency will transfer the country from the country of trillions to billions, while stressing that the project still needs the approval of Parliament and the Iraqi government

Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz22Es9wyK4

He said that printing a new currency characterized by that it will be one of the best security features in the world and the latest role of the printing world, with the addition of the properties of aesthetic, artistic and national benchmarks in Iraq tells the story of civilization of this country since the dawn of history, and will be in three languages.

And if one of the most important pros to be achieved is the feminine dinar shall be there are 30 billion dinars instead of 30 trillion dinars, not to mention that they are not counterfeit, and enhance the confidence of dealers out and raise the value of the direction of other currencies in addition to reduction to the digital financial transactions and accounting.

Now that straightens the M2 right out don't it Bam there right there with Kuwait after that Move!!

[nerd]

Yep Doc it would indeed be sweet! Alas just a dream.

Since there has been a lot of talk about M2 and reserves and exchange rates of Iraq and other counties, I thought I'd pass on a useful IMF link where you can look at any of the IIMF collected data for all the countries it monitors (which annoyingly does not include the EU ). This particular link shows M2 (in dollars) / reserves (in dollars). So this includes the exchange rate in the numerator. You can look at any of the IMF stats this way by searching form the in the text box at the upper left.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FM.LBL.MQMY.IR.ZS

If you click on the blue year links at the top you can reorder based on the value being shown. To get back to the alphabetical by country order you'll have to use the back button on your browser. We see that really poor economies typically have values less than 1, but some more prosperous ones (like Saudi Arabia at 0.6) do as well. Most all countries are less than 5 (Brazil for e.g. is 5.2 , Kuwait is 3.8) with Iraq being exactly 1 (by IMF mandate). Then a few are between 5 and 10, and 3 (the US, Australia, and the UK, and) are 24, 32 and 42 respectively. The EU from what I can piece together is about 85. Why Australia is so high I don't know, but for the US, UK, and EU, they are not the reserve currencies so their rate is really not based on reserves at all. For the other countries their exchange is roughly reserves / M2, but then up or down from that based on the strength of their economy (as I read it anyway). If Iraq were to RV to $0.10 that would give them a value of 100 (i.e. no way).

The bottom line I think is that you can not just compare the exchange rate or M2, or reserves alone, you have to look at all three (at least if not with other factors) together. When Iraq is let loose of IMF controls their M2 and/or their exchange rate might indeed go up, or down as the case may be. For example South Korea has a M2 / reserve ration of 2.8, but their exchange rate is virtually identical to Iraq's. Their economy has been on a rocket for the last 40 years with their GDP on a very fast pace, yet their exchange rate has been up and down by 2 or 3x a couple of times during that period and is now pretty close to where they started. So a rising GDP is no assurance of a rising exchange rate even over the long term.

Another key point is that economic shocks are very bad. Even if Iraq somehow could increase the value of the current IQD by 10x, it would be terrible to do so all at once. Generally the wealthy would make out better than the poor since they are more likely to have cash (e.g. bank accounts), but there is a huge random factor at play. If you are about to by a car or a weeks worth of food you either make out great or are (comparatively) screwed based on whether you buy just before or just after this (mythical) RV. The folks that do not get the 10x return are very likely to be very upset. In any country this would be a disaster, but in one already as fractionalized and well armed as Iraq it would be instant anarchy and chaos. Even doubling the value would be terrible to do all at once.

Consider if Iraq magically found an additional $65B USD (hey has anyone ever opened that vault in the basement with the clown face on it?). They could RV by 2x or give every person in Iraq about $2,000 . The former benefits Iraqi's very unevenly and has a huge upset on prices and wages that all have to adjust and sends some of the money outside of Iraq to speculators. The latter benefits all Iraqis equally, has no direct impact on prices or wages (supply and demand will cause some prices to go up a little), and keeps all the money in Iraq with a huge economic stimulus. There is no way even a 2x RV will ever happen. Its impossible, and if by some miracle it were possible, its not a good idea for Iraq.

[BTSC2000]

Nerd,

Not sure why I had to critically read...I was only asking for thoughts on an old article not trying to debate. See my opening statement.

However I would like to respond to your question:

Why would Iraq do something that gives them no increase but helps speculators get a 100,000% return? no way.

a. What about the oil companies that are in Iraq now making money hand over fist, and yet the people of Iraq suffer? The profit isn't reaching the people and those outside of Iraq are benefitting. Aren't the oil companies speculators? It's amazing how some Americans believe their way of thinking (logic) applies to everyone around the world especially third world countries. With all your number crunching you still can't factor in greed and corruption. Are you familiar with the way Maliki got elected Allawi looked like the winner, but Maliki pulled it off. I wonder how? (lol) If you believe Iraq is being straight forward that's certainly your right. Thanks for your input.

BTSC2000

[nerd]

I'm talking about after they remove the Zero's not what it says now

....

Now that straightens the M2 right out don't it. Bam there right there with Kuwait after that Move!!

Currently Iraq's M0, M1, and M2 are something like 5-10T, 25T, and 72T so after the RD they are all reduced by 1000x so it would be 5-10B, 25B, and 72B . Kuwait's M2 is 29B. So Iraq's M2 is still 2.5x larger, but Iraq's reserves are 2.5x larger as well. But, (many buts! ) Kuwait is a far more stable country, but with an economy only about 30% bigger. So indeed after removal of the 000's (an RD) Iraq will be in pretty good shape with an economy similar to Kuwait and if they keep M2 in check relative to their reserves they may be able to grow their exchange rate over the years, but it in no case will that happen overnight.

[nerd]

Nerd,

Not sure why I had to critically read...I was only asking for thoughts on an old article not trying to debate. See my opening statement.

Isn't critical reading & thinking always a good thing?

However I would like to respond to your question:

Why would Iraq do something that gives them no increase but helps speculators get a 100,000% return? no way.

a. What about the oil companies that are in Iraq now making money hand over fist, and yet the people of Iraq suffer? The profit isn't reaching the people and those outside of Iraq are benefitting. Aren't the oil companies speculators?

How are the oil companies "making money hand over fist"? Iraq generally pays the oil companies $2-$4 USD per barrel to produce the oil as I understand it. The GOI then sells that oil for international rates. The oil companies are indeed making money, but at a pretty common ROI. No the oil companies are not speculators in the sense of currency speculators, they are contracting to perform a service at a competitive rate. They will of course try and make as much money as they can and the welfare of the Iraqi's is not on their radar.

It's amazing how some Americans believe their way of thinking (logic) applies to everyone around the world especially third world countries. With all your number crunching you still can't factor in greed and corruption. Are you familiar with the way Maliki got elected Allawi looked like the winner, but Maliki pulled it off. I wonder how? (lol) If you believe Iraq is being straight forward that's certainly your right. Thanks for your input.

Greed and corruption do not factor into what is or is not possible. Of course both factors are rampant in Iraq (and most of the world for that matter, just look at Wall Street). If Maliki could make himself and his cronies billionaires by proclaiming the dinar to worth 1000 times its present value I have no doubt he would do it, but he can't do it because currencies don't work that way. Edited July 31, 2012 by nerd

[dinarck]

Yeah thanks nerd. BTSC that article or whatever it is sounds great but could never work in real life. In my opinion it was a pump piece added to the forums years ago.

About the Iraqi politicians not wanting a RD because they won't profit again I ask about American politicians. Are they demanding a RV of the dollar so they can profit? Ask Iran? Ok. Let's go ahead and ask them why they haven't "RVed". Their currency is more hyperinflated than Iraq's. Guess what they are talking about doing? You guessed it. Redenomination. They have a lot of oil too. What gives? What gives is mega RVs are not real.

On my phone now but will address your other points from home.

[dinarck]

Yep Doc it would indeed be sweet! Alas just a dream.

Since there has been a lot of talk about M2 and reserves and exchange rates of Iraq and other counties, I thought I'd pass on a useful IMF link where you can look at any of the IIMF collected data for all the countries it monitors (which annoyingly does not include the EU ). This particular link shows M2 (in dollars) / reserves (in dollars). So this includes the exchange rate in the numerator. You can look at any of the IMF stats this way by searching form the in the text box at the upper left.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FM.LBL.MQMY.IR.ZS

If you click on the blue year links at the top you can reorder based on the value being shown. To get back to the alphabetical by country order you'll have to use the back button on your browser. We see that really poor economies typically have values less than 1, but some more prosperous ones (like Saudi Arabia at 0.6) do as well. Most all countries are less than 5 (Brazil for e.g. is 5.2 , Kuwait is 3.8) with Iraq being exactly 1 (by IMF mandate). Then a few are between 5 and 10, and 3 (the US, Australia, and the UK, and) are 24, 32 and 42 respectively. The EU from what I can piece together is about 85. Why Australia is so high I don't know, but for the US, UK, and EU, they are not the reserve currencies so their rate is really not based on reserves at all. For the other countries their exchange is roughly reserves / M2, but then up or down from that based on the strength of their economy (as I read it anyway). If Iraq were to RV to $0.10 that would give them a value of 100 (i.e. no way).

The bottom line I think is that you can not just compare the exchange rate or M2, or reserves alone, you have to look at all three (at least if not with other factors) together. When Iraq is let loose of IMF controls their M2 and/or their exchange rate might indeed go up, or down as the case may be. For example South Korea has a M2 / reserve ration of 2.8, but their exchange rate is virtually identical to Iraq's. Their economy has been on a rocket for the last 40 years with their GDP on a very fast pace, yet their exchange rate has been up and down by 2 or 3x a couple of times during that period and is now pretty close to where they started. So a rising GDP is no assurance of a rising exchange rate even over the long term.

Another key point is that economic shocks are very bad. Even if Iraq somehow could increase the value of the current IQD by 10x, it would be terrible to do so all at once. Generally the wealthy would make out better than the poor since they are more likely to have cash (e.g. bank accounts), but there is a huge random factor at play. If you are about to by a car or a weeks worth of food you either make out great or are (comparatively) screwed based on whether you buy just before or just after this (mythical) RV. The folks that do not get the 10x return are very likely to be very upset. In any country this would be a disaster, but in one already as fractionalized and well armed as Iraq it would be instant anarchy and chaos. Even doubling the value would be terrible to do all at once.

Consider if Iraq magically found an additional $65B USD (hey has anyone ever opened that vault in the basement with the clown face on it?). They could RV by 2x or give every person in Iraq about $2,000 . The former benefits Iraqi's very unevenly and has a huge upset on prices and wages that all have to adjust and sends some of the money outside of Iraq to speculators. The latter benefits all Iraqis equally, has no direct impact on prices or wages (supply and demand will cause some prices to go up a little), and keeps all the money in Iraq with a huge economic stimulus. There is no way even a 2x RV will ever happen. Its impossible, and if by some miracle it were possible, its not a good idea for Iraq.

Nerd this is a great post. Hope you hang out with us for a while.

[nerd]

Nerd this is a great post. Hope you hang out with us for a while.

Thanks Dinarck (wow if you can read all this on your phone you have some awesome vision!).

I do see that I did not proof read that post very well. e.g. the US, UK, and EU ARE the reserve currencies so their own reserves of other foreign currencies are not a factor in their exchange rates is what I should have said.

[dinarck]

Thanks Dinarck (wow if you can read all this on your phone you have some awesome vision!).

I do see that I did not proof read that post very well. e.g. the US, UK, and EU ARE the reserve currencies so their own reserves of other foreign currencies are not a factor in their exchange rates is what I should have said.

I noticed that but no big deal. I knew what you meant and I am sure everyone else did as well.

[keepmwlknfny]

Can anyone provide this IMF document about Iraq being able to support a 3+ dollar rate??

[VIZIOIRAQI]

Can anyone provide this IMF document about Iraq being able to support a 3+ dollar rate??

Haven't had time yet to find it , but I will Bro hang in there it might take an hour or so of my time to do so , and I haven't had that kind of free time yet running My Auto Repair Shop today was very Busy!!! I'm home now and might have enough time after Dinner, So hang in there

[dinarck]

Can anyone provide this IMF document about Iraq being able to support a 3+ dollar rate??

Keepem I have read it and it says no such thing. Of course it has been spun to make it sound that way but it says nothing of the sort. I myself am guilty of reading into things in the past and jumping the gun but from what I gathered from those documents its just buisiness as usual. A while back someone (cant remember who) posted them. They had a dog or something in their avatar. I will look around as well. They are long reads but no where does it even hint to a RV.

Here is what I think he is talking about but it is from cia.gov not the IMF. Still cant figure out how they get a 3 plus rate from this. LOL

[zul]

Actually, yes they do. In fact, at 10% fractional banking, they'd have to have 1.1 billion. It appears you've been misled about how fractional banking works. Google it and become enlightened.

At 10% (of a billion), all they need is 100 million.....

[nerd]

At 10% (of a billion), all they need is 100 million.....

What does fractional banking have to do with an RV? Fractional banking is about the reserve requirements for loans.

[keepmwlknfny]

Haven't had time yet to find it , but I will Bro hang in there it might take an hour or so of my time to do so , and I haven't had that kind of free time yet running My Auto Repair Shop today was very Busy!!! I'm home now and might have enough time after Dinner, So hang in there

Its all good......ill be waiting!!

Keepem I have read it and it says no such thing. Of course it has been spun to make it sound that way but it says nothing of the sort. I myself am guilty of reading into things in the past and jumping the gun but from what I gathered from those documents its just buisiness as usual. A while back someone (cant remember who) posted them. They had a dog or something in their avatar. I will look around as well. They are long reads but no where does it even hint to a RV.

Here is what I think he is talking about but it is from cia.gov not the IMF. Still cant figure out how they get a 3 plus rate from this. LOL

http://dinarvets.com...in/page__st__40

I have never seen such a thing either but I am always willing to be surprised lol.....

What does fractional banking have to do with an RV? Fractional banking is about the reserve requirements for loans.

It amazes me how long some have been in this and still dont understand that.....

[zul]

What does fractional banking have to do with an RV? Fractional banking is about the reserve requirements for loans.

That has nothing to do with the RV or RD..........we were talking about other things.

[nerd]

That has nothing to do with the RV or RD..........we were talking about other things.

oops!

[MrFnHappy]

Can anyone provide this IMF document about Iraq being able to support a 3+ dollar rate??

[zul]

oops!

[BTSC2000]

Isn't critical reading & thinking always a good thing?

Nerd never said it wasn't ..... Just asked the question... never received an answer but that's ok .....I understand.

How are the oil companies "making money hand over fist"? Iraq generally pays the oil companies $2-$4 USD per barrel to produce the oil as I understand it. The GOI then sells that oil for international rates. The oil companies are indeed making money, but at a pretty common ROI. No the oil companies are not speculators in the sense of currency speculators, they are contracting to perform a service at a competitive rate. They will of course try and make as much money as they can and the welfare of the Iraqi's is not on their radar.

Nerd....I'm responding to the statement U made. My point is regardless of the amount of money that is being made. Iraq is allowing the speculators oil or currency to benefit from the country while the people suffer

. You stated that wasn't possible.(lol)

Greed and corruption do not factor into what is or is not possible. Of course both factors are rampant in Iraq (and most of the world for that matter, just look at Wall Street). If Maliki could make himself and his cronies billionaires by proclaiming the dinar to worth 1000 times its present value I have no doubt he would do it, but he can't do it because currencies don't work that way.

Nerd are you serious Iraq was run on and is still running on greed and corruption you remember Saddam? He controlled the economy... declared what the value of the dinar should be...oh and by the way had his face on the currency...oh my mistake currencies don't work that way in a corrupt country (lol....lol) Thanks for the conversation!

[MrFnHappy]

I'm talking about after they remove the Zero's not what it says now

Sumerian News / Baghdad Central Bank of Iraq, Tuesday, that the deletion of zeros from the currency will transfer the country from the country of trillions to billions, while stressing that the project still needs the approval of Parliament and the Iraqi government

Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz22Es9wyK4

He said that printing a new currency characterized by that it will be one of the best security features in the world and the latest role of the printing world, with the addition of the properties of aesthetic, artistic and national benchmarks in Iraq tells the story of civilization of this country since the dawn of history, and will be in three languages.

And if one of the most important pros to be achieved is the feminine dinar shall be there are 30 billion dinars instead of 30 trillion dinars, not to mention that they are not counterfeit, and enhance the confidence of dealers out and raise the value of the direction of other currencies in addition to reduction to the digital financial transactions and accounting.

Now that straightens the M2 right out don't it Bam there right there with Kuwait after that Move!!

Guess it depends on if you wish to go by a journalist's quotes or the CBI....go to cbi.iq then click on "statistics", and then on "key financial indicators". Download the Excel file and read for yourself. I believe you will find it enlightening.

Edited August 1, 2012 by MrFnHappy