For keepmwlknfny zeros article

[umbertino]

machcobra, you are posting in the LOP Talk thread, and you seem strangely angry that folks here are talking about a LOP.

Exactly and thanks... It's incredible this needs to be repeated over and over and over. Not only keep 's posts ( along with those of other Members) get reprimanded harshly on the other sections of the Forum by some... But even here in the LOP section... ABSURD.

[HopefulTxn]

Funny how some can just post what they think they see. Maybe you should sell then?

Here's a thought. Instead of telling other people what they should do, think or whatever - support your position with something.

It's easy for you to sit on the sidelines and complain that others don't believe what you do, but you won't even put any information up to support your own stance...

Personally, I think that is rather pathetic. But that's just me.

[dinarck]

OK let's accept your LOP theory - why all the hoopla then? Why all the worry about money laundering, counterfeiting, infighting in GOI over currency, all these auctions, why all the articles debating the merits of changing the currency? If this is a value-neutral move, and will get rid of past inflation, then why not just do it? It would erase all the trillions you lopsters have cried about and give them a fresh start. Why haven't they done it? Then they could have a modest RV at 3 to 4 times the rate and be on par with Kuwait and be done with it. No big deal.

And an RD with a completely new currency makes no sense given the expense of printing a new one and the current one being state of the art.

"Why all the worry about money laundering, counterfeiting"

Because a counterfiter would be able to exchange a fake 25,000 note for a new real 25 note. That would basically add fake money to the system which would obviously not be good.

"infighting in GOI"

What else is new.

"all these auctions"

Attempt to keep the dinar value stable. Basic everyday operation.

"why all the articles debating the merits of changing the currency"

So a major decision such as a RD shouldn't be debated in full? OK

"If this is a value-neutral move, and will get rid of past inflation, then why not just do it"

Uuumm...They are doing it. Bringing in an entirely new currency to replace the old doesn't happen overnight. The logistics are complex.

"It would erase all the trillions you lopsters have cried about and give them a fresh start. Why haven't they done it?"

Probably because they have been busy raking in billions by selling dinar to speculators. Not to mention the fact that the dinar has been stable. Now not so much in case you haven't noticed. Many countries function for long periods of time with a currency that shows the effects of hyperinflation.

"Then they could have a modest RV at 3 to 4 times the rate and be on par with Kuwait and be done with it. No big deal."

Yeah maybe. Not really even sure about that anymore.

"And an RD with a completely new currency makes no sense given the expense of printing a new one and the current one being state of the art."

So they have 60 trillion dinar in existence but a redenomination makes no sense? Haha..... Let me guess....the only thing that makes sense is an overnight RV by 1000 times the current value right?

There. Now I answered all your questions. Would you mind maybe answering a few of mine?

Where is the tens of trillions going to come from to pay out specualtors? How come the US or Mexico or Canada or any country on earth can't declare their currency worth 1000 times its current value overnight? What makes Iraq so special? If its such a problem solver that the Iraqi people so desperately need then why havent they done it by now? Isnt that what you asked about the RD? Why has no other country on earth ever done this before? How will Iraq deal with the mass hyperinflation that adding 30 trillion extra value into their economy overnight would cause? Do "RVs" even exsist? If so please show me one. Not slight movements upwards in exchange rates but a complete revaluation overnight from hyperinflation back to original value without a redenomination. How can Iraq suddenly create 60 trillion USD worth of currency overnight seeing how this is about how much is in circulation on the planet now. Who would recognized the IQD just because Iraq says it is now worth 1000 times more?

It is good that we are getting some of these questions that we both have answered. It is really what makes this site shine.

[keepmwlknfny]

Then maybe you need to clean out your ears? By the way, why in the heck do you even own any dinar or do you? You are boardering on pathetic. Take a break, I have had enough of reading your negative. Nobody knows what the outcome will be, including you and I. For me I bought what I can afford and will wait and see what happens.

Good luck.

I think thats where the confusion may be, it seems that I really am listening to what Shabibi is saying rather then what I just think and want him to be saying....

Dont get all butt hurt on me now!! Its ok to accept reality....although no one knows the outcome of this, and I dont brag like I know either....but I do understand the words coming out of their mouths as far as just what they are saying they will do....

I own dinar because I dont think its impossible for us to make some money, there are different options and routes they have to take......

Maybe you will enjoy reading some Okie before your bed time...when you would like to continue our conversation, Ill be waiting......

[uncirculd]

:lol: Dont get all butt hurt on me now!! Its ok to accept reality....although no one knows the outcome of this, and I dont brag like I know either....but I do understand the words coming out of their mouths as far as just what they are saying they will do....

I own dinar because I dont think its impossible for us to make some money, there are different options and routes they have to take......

Maybe you will enjoy reading some Okie before your bed time...when you would like to continue our conversation, Ill be waiting......

Keep,

I just started this thread for a little debate with ya. And that other article floating around that states a 50 dinar will have the buying power of a 25,000. Heck that's good. More debate.

I do like it that you defend the way you read it. I had plenty doubts also my friend. Like HopefulTxn I too have to seek you out to see what your take is on things. That is how we have debate. That is another way of staying grounded for me. Hence post is in the lop talk section.

Although now I am convinced it will be an investment and no lop, I would love to be the first when it does pan out to say I told you so. Just kidding. I know you have a little one, I would rather be the first to be happy for you. HopefulTxn also. I don't know but maybe she like myself stays grounded by using the debate with great lop debates with you. Who knows. Anyhow, your take on that article where the 50 has the buying power of the 50000? Hmmm? I am waiting my friend.

[rockinrich]

Well, once again why dont we just use good ole common sense. What do we think Iraq is saying with these articles? That they are in the process of raising the value of the dinar by 1000 times or that they are about to redenominate? It isnt so hard to understand that they would never hint at an increase in the exchange rate. Especiallly one that is by 100,000% which by the way is impossible. How many more 100s of articles do we need to see to figure out they speak of RD. Turkey, Brazil, 25,000 note becomes 25 note, currencies will coexsist, no increase in purchasing power, ease transactions. This is seriously getting sad. It is absolutely amazing hpw many have spun these articles to mean that Iraq is telling its people and the world that they are about to "RV" by a factor of 1000 times.

Anyone who doesnt understand redenominations and how they work PLEASE read up on Venezuelas and you will clearly see that this is what Iraq is talking of doing.

you dont know what your talking about iraq is not in the same position as the country's you mention

Unfortunately the ONLY place this has been stated to be how they will do it is on dinar forums. When they (Iraq) have spoken of how the exchange would be in the Iraqi media, it is a completely different scenario. They are the ones that have stated that 25,000 note will become a 25 note. They are the ones that have stated that during the transition period a 25,000 note and a 25 note would have the same purchasing power. They are the ones stating that 25 trillion dinar would, because of the removal of zeros, turn simply into billions.

Instead of telling others that they 'have a lot to learn', why not put something forward that supports the position that Iraq will become the very first country in history to perform such an action. Unfortunately, there is nothing that states it or supports it to be an inevitable occurrence. All of us that hold dinar hope that they will and that it will create fortunes, but to ignore how every other country has handled the exact same economic problems that Iraq has suffered just because it doesn't support your own wants is a bit small minded, IMO.

iraq is not in the same position as other countrys that lopped far from it shabibi has not put in the time he has only to lop their money at the end of it all he could have done it by now

[dvforumuser]

you dont know what your talking about iraq is not in the same position as the country's you mention

iraq is not in the same position as other countrys that lopped far from it shabibi has not put in the time he has only to lop their money at the end of it all he could have done it by now

Iraq is in exactly the same position in regards to the factors that count, namely past hyperinflation and current stable economy with low inflation. The "they could have done it by now" argument is just silly. Everything in Iraq is on a slow schedule.

[caz1104]

Yea i still have kept in touch with him, havent talked to him since leaving ATL though....just been so dang busy lol

Just saw this re-open and saw your response. 1st-congrats on the princess, 2nd - does Scoot think positively about this investment?.& 3rd-glad to hear your enjoying tinkerin with toys(BMW). Take care

[pocono]

Iraq is in exactly the same position in regards to the factors that count, namely past hyperinflation and current stable economy with low inflation. The "they could have done it by now" argument is just silly. Everything in Iraq is on a slow schedule.

Wow...someone resurrecting an old thread just to insult people? It's scary enough in the news section and now they're migrating south....

[dvforumuser]

Wow...someone resurrecting an old thread just to insult people? It's scary enough in the news section and now they're migrating south....

Rockinrich opened the thread back up, I am only responding to them. And what insults?

[pocono]

Rockinrich opened the thread back up, I am only responding to them. And what insults?

That was meant for Rockinrich....should have qualified that...my apologies...

[dinarck]

you dont know what your talking about iraq is not in the same position as the country's you mention

iraq is not in the same position as other countrys that lopped far from it shabibi has not put in the time he has only to lop their money at the end of it all he could have done it by now

Like I said in the very post you quoted. Read up on Venezuela. They were in a better economic position at the time than Iraq is now and they RDed. Seems you dont have a grasp on what RDs are for. Not really your fault. Lots of misinformation out there on RDs. Seems everyone thinks they are used to steal money from everyone. Easy to think that when you have been promised millions of dollars for nothing.

[keepmwlknfny]

you dont know what your talking about iraq is not in the same position as the country's you mention

iraq is not in the same position as other countrys that lopped far from it shabibi has not put in the time he has only to lop their money at the end of it all he could have done it by now

Go back with pepperoni and you can continue to convince yourselves that what you say actually has any merit to it......

Answer these few simple questions sir.....

1) Did Iraq suffer from periods of hyperinflation?

2) Did the dinars purchasing power and value take a nose dive?

3) Was the money supply severely inflated because of those first two??

Now its quite obvious that the answer to those questions is yes.....no doubt about it....and thats exactly what puts Iraq in the same boat as past countries who have decided to lop....those are main focus points or reasons why countries do that....mistakes in the past cannot just be magically erased because you have a lot of oil.....its really not that hard to understand...

Just saw this re-open and saw your response. 1st-congrats on the princess, 2nd - does Scoot think positively about this investment?.& 3rd-glad to hear your enjoying tinkerin with toys(BMW). Take care

Thanks bud....honestly Im pretty sure scooter thinks there is still a chance for good profit.....still havent got in touch with him....maybe I will do that.....

[caz1104]

Go back with pepperoni and you can continue to convince yourselves that what you say actually has any merit to it......

Answer these few simple questions sir.....

1) Did Iraq suffer from periods of hyperinflation?

2) Did the dinars purchasing power and value take a nose dive?

3) Was the money supply severely inflated because of those first two??

Now its quite obvious that the answer to those questions is yes.....no doubt about it....and thats exactly what puts Iraq in the same boat as past countries who have decided to lop....those are main focus points or reasons why countries do that....mistakes in the past cannot just be magically erased because you have a lot of oil.....its really not that hard to understand...

Thanks bud....honestly Im pretty sure scooter thinks there is still a chance for good profit.....still havent got in touch with him....maybe I will do that.....

Thanks for the response & best to your family.

[GotSix]

Go back with pepperoni and you can continue to convince yourselves that what you say actually has any merit to it......

Answer these few simple questions sir.....

1) Did Iraq suffer from periods of hyperinflation?

2) Did the dinars purchasing power and value take a nose dive?

3) Was the money supply severely inflated because of those first two??

Now its quite obvious that the answer to those questions is yes.....no doubt about it....and thats exactly what puts Iraq in the same boat as past countries who have decided to lop....those are main focus points or reasons why countries do that....mistakes in the past cannot just be magically erased because you have a lot of oil.....its really not that hard to understand...

Thanks bud....honestly Im pretty sure scooter thinks there is still a chance for good profit.....still havent got in touch with him....maybe I will do that.....

[GotSix]

1) Did Iraq suffer from periods of hyperinflation?

2) Did the dinars purchasing power and value take a nose dive?

3) Was the money supply severely inflated because of those first two??

Now its quite obvious that the answer to those questions is yes.....no doubt about it....and thats exactly what puts Iraq in the same boat as past countries who have decided to lop....those are main focus points or reasons why countries do that....mistakes in the past cannot just be magically erased because you have a lot of oil.....its really not that hard to understand...

Ok....so let's focus on item #3 which is our biggest issue & attributable due to items #1 & #2...we all know that at this time the exchange rate is managed/pegged; therefore, the only way the CBI can manage inflation is by purchasing or selling foreign exchange. So by the CBI consisently buying Foreign exchange (i.e. buying US dollars & selling Dinar) & as evident in the daily auctions, then they are in theory decreasing their monetary base and please don't refer to the CBI's audited financials regarding what's in circulation cause they won't help you

[dvforumuser]

That was meant for Rockinrich....should have qualified that...my apologies...

no worries!

[dvforumuser]

Ok....so let's focus on item #3 which is our biggest issue & attributable due to items #1 & #2...we all know that at this time the exchange rate is managed/pegged; therefore, the only way the CBI can manage inflation is by purchasing or selling foreign exchange. So by the CBI consisently buying Foreign exchange (i.e. buying US dollars & selling Dinar) & as evident in the daily auctions, then they are in theory decreasing their monetary base

Sure when they sell dollars they are buying dinars. But is this the only flow? If it where then the total dinars bought has to be less than M2 (if not much less) right? But if you add up the auctions, I would estimate they are much greater than M2 even. Say only 50M USD per day and only 10 moths per year so 10 B for 6 instead of 9 years is $60 B which is what is more than 100% backing their current entire money supply. So clearly a return path where dinars are added to the supply also must exist and be pretty big or there wouldn't be any dinars anywhere.

and please don't refer to the CBI's audited financials regarding what's in circulation cause they won't help you

Unless you can supply the auditors explanation for what part of their audit resulted in the "qualified" result, it is reasonable to assume that if it was something as huge as being wildly off in their statements of basic financials, it would have resulted in an "adverse" report instead. Thus the basic numbers are very very likely to be close enough for the sort of arguments held here.

[GotSix]

"Sure when they sell dollars they are buying dinars. But is this the only flow? If it where then the total dinars bought has to be less than M2 (if not much less) right? But if you add up the auctions, I would estimate they are much greater than M2 even. Say only 50M USD per day and only 10 moths per year so 10 B for 6 instead of 9 years is $60 B which is what is more than 100% backing their current entire money supply. So clearly a return path where dinars are added to the supply also must exist and be pretty big or there wouldn't be any dinars anywhere."

When almost 50% is still using USD & there is no real commerce in Iraq at this time....then yes they are sucking in Dinar

"Unless you can supply the auditors explanation for what part of their audit resulted in the "qualified" result, it is reasonable to assume that if it was something as huge as being wildly off in their statements of basic financials, it would have resulted in an "adverse" report instead. Thus the basic numbers are very very likely to be close enough for the sort of arguments held here".

Never heard of auditors' being sued over what is stated in the financials regarding the currency in circulation.....have you ....& in case you haven't noticed...they did state that the CBI's internal controls can not be relied on....so who are you going to believe or I know perhaps you can count the currency in circulation yourself

[keepmwlknfny]

1) Did Iraq suffer from periods of hyperinflation?

2) Did the dinars purchasing power and value take a nose dive?

3) Was the money supply severely inflated because of those first two??

Now its quite obvious that the answer to those questions is yes.....no doubt about it....and thats exactly what puts Iraq in the same boat as past countries who have decided to lop....those are main focus points or reasons why countries do that....mistakes in the past cannot just be magically erased because you have a lot of oil.....its really not that hard to understand...

Ok....so let's focus on item #3 which is our biggest issue & attributable due to items #1 & #2...we all know that at this time the exchange rate is managed/pegged; therefore, the only way the CBI can manage inflation is by purchasing or selling foreign exchange. So by the CBI consisently buying Foreign exchange (i.e. buying US dollars & selling Dinar) & as evident in the daily auctions, then they are in theory decreasing their monetary base and please don't refer to the CBI's audited financials regarding what's in circulation cause they won't help you

Dont bring that swiss cheese up again.....

We have been over this many times......the auctions are selling USD....they are getting dinar in return and a profit in dinar off sales outside the country....but do you think this is all being destroyed?? Hahaha and you think that the CBI is not able to figure out how much currency they issue.....the bottom line is even if they had a couple trillion in circulation, its still inflated.....

How come many others seem to understand that qualified opinions dont mean the entire audit is bogus and other information isnt reliable, but you dont??

Again, when they start stating the reasons for this qualified opinion, as issues with keeping track and accounting for currency issued then you might actually have a case....but there are none which means the rest is fairly presented.....and on top of that, you keep referencing only one audit.....how about you share the ones by Ernst and Young and PWC....what did they have to say??

Edited March 3, 2012 by keepmwlknfny

[GotSix]

'and on top of that, you keep referencing only one audit.....how about you share the ones by Ernst and Young and PWC....what did they have to say??'

you got to be kidding me ...just so you know...when I'm referring to the audit(s)...I'm referring to all the auditing firms posted on the CBI's website...so that means...year after year no matter if it was E&Y, PWC, Okie, or joemama....

[keepmwlknfny]

you got to be kidding me ...just so you know...when I'm referring to the audit(s)...I'm referring to all the auditing firms posted on the CBI's website...so that means...year after year no matter if it was E&Y, PWC, Okie, or joemama....

just making sure......it doesnt matter anyway.....

cause there are no disputes about the currency in circulation.....

[dvforumuser]

When almost 50% is still using USD & there is no real commerce in Iraq at this time....then yes they are sucking in Dinar

How is that different from last year or the year before? They have always used a lot of dollars. Again if the auctions were the only flow then there would be NO dinars in circulation at all, so clearly they are releasing dinars as well, and since we see no evidence of dinar scarcity it would seem that they are releasing a lot of it. Edited March 3, 2012 by dvforumuser

[lotsofdinar]

I'm not sure what is left to say in the debate: RV vs RD. I would like to say that we will soon know who is right, but I suspect that, even if there were an RD exactly as the CBI has been saying, those who believe in an RV would still be here still expecting a 100,000x RV any minute. Or they would simply deny that the RD actually happened and continue holding their worthless old Dinar, secure in the belief that an RV was still "Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday."

The RV is a faith based religion, I'm afraid. I think it more likely, knowing the Iraqi government's history, that they will simply do nothing, shuffling along just as they are for the next decade or so. And still talking about an RD.

[easyrider]

I'm not sure what is left to say in the debate: RV vs RD. I would like to say that we will soon know who is right, but I suspect that, even if there were an RD exactly as the CBI has been saying, those who believe in an RV would still be here still expecting a 100,000x RV any minute. Or they would simply deny that the RD actually happened and continue holding their worthless old Dinar, secure in the belief that an RV was still "Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday."

The RV is a faith based religion, I'm afraid. I think it more likely, knowing the Iraqi government's history, that they will simply do nothing, shuffling along just as they are for the next decade or so. And still talking about an RD.

that makes absolutely no sense because the CBi has said continuously that they will indeed raise the value of the dinar and talked about being at par to the us dollar how does that fit into your scenario of them doing nothing makes no sense what so ever.

Edited March 3, 2012 by easyrider