Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result

[krome2ez]

Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result

August 16, 2011

State’s change to concealed-carry law doesn’t have effect many predicted

When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”

http://patriotupdate.com/10927/allowing-guns-into-bars-has-surprising-result

[easyrider]

Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result

August 16, 2011

State’s change to concealed-carry law doesn’t have effect many predicted

When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”

http://patriotupdate...rprising-result

honestly i wouldnt want this in california might be good for some states i guess but def. not where i live way too many gangs already.

[txcountryman]

honestly i wouldnt want this in california might be good for some states i guess but def. not where i live way too many gangs already.

But gang members will carry if it's a law or not. They don't follow laws like me and you follow.

[thatoneguy]

Interested to know if overall violence dipped in this time period, not just gun violence. Seems you might rethink your intoxicated actions as the thought of "he/she might have a gun" crosses your mind prior to pursuing a fight.

[mityigor]

But gang members will carry if it's a law or not. They don't follow laws like me and you follow.

you are so right, people dont seem to understand that when you outlaw guns that only the outlaws will have guns. I live in california and i wish we would be able to carry. criminals look for an easy target, and if you are carry a gun then the criminal will look elsewhere. I feel safe in my home with my mossberg ready to go.

[Ridewithme38]

But gang members will carry if it's a law or not. They don't follow laws like me and you follow.

you are so right, people dont seem to understand that when you outlaw guns that only the outlaws will have guns. I live in california and i wish we would be able to carry. criminals look for an easy target, and if you are carry a gun then the criminal will look elsewhere. I feel safe in my home with my mossberg ready to go.

YES, but it GIVES police REASON to get those gang members off the streets...If everyone carried a gun, what do you arrest the gang members for, loitering, littering? Wearing funny clothes?? It makes no sense to give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun because some redneck wants to be able to shoot a deer from his bar stool

Edited August 17, 2011 by Ridewithme38

[tampabay6]

YES, but it GIVES police REASON to get those gang members off the streets...If everyone carried a gun, what do you arrest the gang members for, loitering, littering? Wearing funny clothes?? It makes no sense to give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun because some redneck wants to be able to shoot a deer from his bar stool

If the gang members are under age or have a felony already they would not be able to get a permit.

If they try to victimize the wrong person in public, they will cease to be a problem and the rest of them will have something to think twice about.

[olivesman]

YES, but it GIVES police REASON to get those gang members off the streets...If everyone carried a gun, what do you arrest the gang members for, loitering, littering? Wearing funny clothes?? It makes no sense to give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun because some redneck wants to be able to shoot a deer from his bar stool

OH PULEASE. "give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun" ???? The last I heard, criminals were not allowed to "legally" own a gun. And I really don't think the police need to look THAT hard to find a reason to get gang members off the streets. BESIDES, how long do you suppose the average jail stay for a gang member is? And just HOW many bangers are "REHABILITATED" in jail or prison. They NEED a WORK PRISON like Arizona has.

I get the biggest kick out of the tru tv show about dumbest criminals that get chased out by shop owners that LEGALLY OWN guns.

Now that I proof read my post, I see that we agree, tampabay6.

Edited August 17, 2011 by olivesman

[Dalite]

Interested to know if overall violence dipped in this time period, not just gun violence. Seems you might rethink your intoxicated actions as the thought of "he/she might have a gun" crosses your mind prior to pursuing a fight.

An armed population is a Polite population...

Folks who advocate gun control measures should have a sign in their front yard advertising they don't believe in guns.

It makes it easier on the criminals...

[Ridewithme38]

An armed population is a Polite population...

Folks who advocate gun control measures should have a sign in their front yard advertising they don't believe in guns.

It makes it easier on the criminals...

I think people that say this, just don't know enough people...the average person i a complete moron, unable to understand that coffee is hot let alone know how to properly handle a loaded weapon....Now don't get me wrong....i'm not totally against guns....i just think its rediculously dangerous to let people own them without proper gun education and training...

[minichaser]

Ridewithme I dont know about other states but OK law you have to qualify with the weapon you Carrie and also have a background check. If you do not qualify you dont get the permit.

[GhostDawg]

It is my understanding that you CANNOT even receive a permit to carry IF you have a FELONY on your record, have not taken the proper SAFETY COURSES and PASS. Some of the comments about this topic just made me shake my head. Really? Gang members legally carrying a firearm? That will never happen. HELLO! They're gang members and don't do shite legally.

I live in Minnesota, in between both Saint Paul, and Minneapolis. I am thankful that I was able to take, and pass a permit to carry class. I am by no means a gun nut, I own a few, and I feel that everyone should have the choice to either take the class and get certified or not to take the class because YOU chose not to and not some stuffed politician. If nothing else, learn how to use one regardless if you are going for a permit or not. You never know when that zombie apocalypse might happen!

[jimanita]

YES, but it GIVES police REASON to get those gang members off the streets...If everyone carried a gun, what do you arrest the gang members for, loitering, littering? Wearing funny clothes?? It makes no sense to give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun because some redneck wants to be able to shoot a deer from his bar stool

banger would not get permits they would still go to jail!! plus they would lose it if they got one for other reasons!

[dog53]

YES, but it GIVES police REASON to get those gang members off the streets...If everyone carried a gun, what do you arrest the gang members for, loitering, littering? Wearing funny clothes?? It makes no sense to give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun because some redneck wants to be able to shoot a deer from his bar stool

hahaha Their not giving criminals the right to carry a gun. If your a criminal you carry a gun illegally. You also are not allowed to consume alcohol if you are carrying a gun . It just means your allowed to carry in a bar and drink soda if you like. One day PAL you may need that redneck to save you or your loved ones a$$. Since you obviously do not have the fortitude to do t yourself .

[Dalite]

I think people that say this, just don't know enough people...the average person i a complete moron, unable to understand that coffee is hot let alone know how to properly handle a loaded weapon....Now don't get me wrong....i'm not totally against guns....i just think its rediculously dangerous to let people own them without proper gun education and training...

As long as they aren't brought in an anti- gun environment, most are proficient by the time they are old enough to get a permit.

I've carried for almost 40 years, and never had to use a gun yet.

As a general rule, Guns don't kill; people kill.

For those who could bend an anvil in a corn field, permitting would't have an effect.

And as far as the morinic aspects in society, Darwin was probably optimistic..

[txcountryman]

I think people that say this, just don't know enough people...the average person i a complete moron, unable to understand that coffee is hot let alone know how to properly handle a loaded weapon....Now don't get me wrong....i'm not totally against guns....i just think its rediculously dangerous to let people own them without proper gun education and training...

I agree people need education and training. In Texas to receive your conceal carry license you go through a 2 day course training you on laws and how to properly handle your firearms. You can't just decide one day your going to put your 45 in your pocket and walk around with it. It is illegal to conceal carry on your person in PUBLIC. Not only that but then you have to pass a background check to be approved to get your license.

[Shinnidan]

hmmm.. i wonder where i can conceal my M-107 ????

ah...the spoiler is nice place to conceal it...

oh...if they will only allow us to carry this thing around...then no one will F with you..

[Dalite]

hmmm.. i wonder where i can conceal my M-107 ????

ah...the spoiler is nice place to conceal it...

oh...if they will only allow us to carry this thing around...then no one will F with you..

I see you are totin' the small stuff tonight.

Nice and concealable.

Beware of the post ammo letdown.

Always great to see you post..

[Hntr]

honestly i wouldnt want this in california might be good for some states i guess but def. not where i live way too many gangs already.

Actually? That would be great for California for the very same reason you worry!!!!!

[Shinnidan]

buwahahaha... "Post Ammo Letdown" heheheh

[Hntr]

YES, but it GIVES police REASON to get those gang members off the streets...If everyone carried a gun, what do you arrest the gang members for, loitering, littering? Wearing funny clothes?? It makes no sense to give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun because some redneck wants to be able to shoot a deer from his bar stool

Seriously? You think that's it in a nutshell huh? WRONG!!!! Last I checked "criminals" couldn't carry or even own and could not have a firearm on their property!? Define criminals? You think just because us good ol' boys enjoy the outdoors that we all carry concealed weapons?? WRONG AGAIN! WE DON'T HIDE BEHIND OUR WEAPONS like these so call gangs. Us good ol' boys fill our military ranks while the gang punks fill our prisons!!

[DinarMillionaire]

honestly i wouldnt want this in california might be good for some states i guess but def. not where i live way too many gangs already.

So, what are you saying? That you only support gangs having guns? Because they don't give a dam* about the laws, they will carry anyway, but you want the average citizen to be unarmed and subject to the gangs? If the gangs knew that everyone else had a right to carry a gun, they might think twice about using theirs in a bar, where the average citizen has the right to defend ones self. Kinda defies your logic in this case 'easy'. You have had some great post on this site in the past, but, sorry, can't agree with you here. If everyone has the right to carry, it just levels the playing field.Gun laws only prohibit law abiding citizens from protecting themselves from the criminals. My favorite quote..."If guns are outlawed...then only outlaws will have guns".

[tcat1]

But gang members will carry if it's a law or not. They don't follow laws like me and you follow.

You are soo right! The bad dudes carry no matter. Now they have to wonder if the good dudes are packin. The real equalizer that silences the shootin mouths.

[tcat1]

YES, but it GIVES police REASON to get those gang members off the streets...If everyone carried a gun, what do you arrest the gang members for, loitering, littering? Wearing funny clothes?? It makes no sense to give violent criminals the legal right to carry a gun because some redneck wants to be able to shoot a deer from his bar stool

I hope Ridewithme38 is not a cop because most "violent criminals" are not legally qualified to carry (at least the state I live-in) plus the "rednecks" I know don't shoot deer from their bar stools they wouldn't take a chance on spillin a perfectly good beer .

[tcat1]

I think people that say this, just don't know enough people...the average person i a complete moron, unable to understand that coffee is hot let alone know how to properly handle a loaded weapon....Now don't get me wrong....i'm not totally against guns....i just think its rediculously dangerous to let people own them without proper gun education and training...

You need to exit the time warp. No state allows concealed weapon permits without the course, typically taught by active or retired police officers plus dry/wet fire/breakdown/assembly practice with test then thorough background check before issuance.of license. This does not authorize you to tot openly like some wild frontier but only concealed.