tampabay6

I wasn't suggesting to be afraid, I was suggesting to be strategic. Why bring on unnecessary trouble? There will be enough trouble which will be unavoidable. Peace.

My hat's off to anyone who had the foresight to prep before big brother got as all-seeing as he currently is, but I wouldn't reveal any such things on a public web site like this one. There can be no doubt that it is monitored; finding IP addresses of people they become interested in, and tying them to locations is trivial for the powers that be. Everyone has heard that they are building a huge new data center in Utah that will capture all of the traffic on the internet, analyze it, and store forever all but the most obviously trivial and useless parts of it. They probably already are monitoring quite a lot; do not assume that they have no such capability at all until you hear that this new center is in full operation; this new center will just make what they are already doing, bigger and better. If you are thinking, "I have privacy rights!" consider this: every corporation that makes internet available (i.e. Verizon, Time Warner, Comcast, and all the others...) is a creature of the State, and whatever data you pass through the connection that they provide, they consider to be theirs, to do with as they choose. Of course it's easier to get on their radar screen if you are required to show your ID in a gun store, or if some suspicious busybody goes out of their way to read your license plate and calls them with it... but they have hired the world's smartest geeks, to create systems that will analyze every word that goes through the 'net, and filter out only the juiciest parts to be seen by the humans that they hire to monitor the system. I used to think that the fool-proof solution to this was to use a so-called "VPN" provider, such as Crypto-Hippie, or SwissVPN, or one of dozens of others, to connect using a scrambled (encrypted) line to a server in some other nation, so that all of your internet traffic is totally hidden from your internet connection provider, and the powers that be here, and that your surfing would have the appearance of being done by some anonymous ghost on the other side of the world... I just read, a few days ago, that in some university computer lab, that the geeks have come up with a way to penetrate all such "encryption" with the new supercomputers that they are deploying, so that probably within a few years there may be almost no way to hide your online tracks whatsoever, except maybe the following "low-tech" approach... It may come down to the point that anyone who wants to make political comments on the internet will have to buy an old used laptop at a flea market or garage sale, make sure the seller has no idea who you are, make sure that such computer is never powered up when you are at home using your own internet connection, establish an absolute and total separation between your "personal" routine email, facebook, etc. that you use with your friends, and your "political" laptop... and whenever you want to publish "anonymous political comments," take that laptop, go a long way from home, and use the public wi-fi of some McDonalds restaurant, or library, or whatever you can find to hook up to, making sure that your car license plate and your face, is not seen by any cameras... Welcome to the land of the free and the home of the brave. Got freedom? Check out http://www.teamlaw.net

Hey folks! This guy comes on here to post a joke to try to give us all a laugh; he files it properly in the "Off Topic" section, and he had gotten 5 negatives, as of the time I first visited the thread, about an hour after he did the posting? WTF? Aren't NEGS supposed to be reserved for those silly people who post Okie's chat logs into the News section next to the reports from Al-Jazeera, or those unhappy folks who are just outrageously uncivil while arguing? Is that the level that this forum has descended to, that if someone posts a joke that he thinks is funny, that I think is funny, and probably many others will too... that he gets NEGGED? So what if it's corny? Neggers GET A LIFE! The rest of you, help me even him out !!!

Cute, but it should say.... Atlanta ATC: "Tower to Iran Air 711 --You are cleared to land Runway 27 Left." ... but then only the pilots would get it ;-(

I'm sure he wouldn't go out of his way to enrage the Powers that Be, such that they would just have him taken out the next day... but he didn't come this far to throw away his principles. They would definitely not get everything they want from him. He's lived a long life; I really doubt that he's afraid of dying; I'm sure he knows it will happen soon enough anyway. If he did get elected president and was taken out, he would become a martyr, and that might very well create a huge problem for the Powers that Be. People might actually wake up. Either way, it would be edifying to see the manipulators not having their way quite so easily for once. --- Anyway, this thread has been quite the boiling cauldron of controversy; I'm amazed the mods haven't shown up to tell us to cool it... I can see the points of view in both of those quotes. I actually have one foot in each camp. Does that sound crazy? Think about it... Who or what is the biggest threat to the quality of life of regular, middle-class folks who just want to live and let live? Is it not their own government, whether the United States, Israel, or ANY other country? When have the Elite in any country ever done what was in the best interest of all the people? Look up "Jews for Ron Paul" and see what some of them have to say. I saw an article the other day in which a retired high official of either the Mossad or the Israeli Defense Forces, spoke out against an attack on Iran; sorry I do not have time right now to track down the link. If you look into these things deeply enough, you will find that those Elite bankers who are controlling both America and Israel from behind the scenes may claim to be Jews, but they are not really from the blood line of Abraham that received the covenant from God... rather they are from a people group called Khazars, who chose to convert to the religion of Judaism sometime around 700 A.D. - but that doesn't make them the descendants of Abraham. They are very proficient at throwing a charge of anti-Semitism at anyone who opposes their plans to enslave all of humanity to their planned One World Government. I believe these are the evil ones spoken of in the following verse from the Book of Revelation in the Bible... Revelation 2:9 I know your affliction and distress and pressing trouble and your poverty—but you are rich! and how you are abused and reviled and slandered by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Israel (meaning the masses of people in that land) isn't the threat to World Peace, it's these bankers, who claim to be Jews but really aren't, who exploit the Holocaust for political gain. These guys claim to be Jews, but they financed the rise of Hitler! They obviously couldn't care less about "their fellow Jews" except to use the whole country as a pawn in their evil game. ----- Hugh, I don't believe that there is really a conflict between the Jews being "God's chosen people" and "All men are created equal", IF it is understood correctly. God loves the whole world, but He had to start somewhere, with a particular bunch of people. If you wanted to give a message to the whole world, especially if TV and Radio did not exist, how could you give it to everyone at the same time? Or would you give it to a group of people, and then train them to spread it? How about a really non-religious analogy: whenever a factory wants to make something, do they just make a drawing and then go straight to producing a million of them, or do they make a prototype, then another, and another, and then finally produce a few hundred, then when they are proven to work, a million? God spent centuries training the Jews as to what He is like and how He works with people. Then he sent Jesus Christ, who brought the message to the world that "All men are created equal." That was His plan from the beginning; read Genesis 3:15. ----- Hugh and Mak, have a look at this linked article. It covers a LOT of territory related to what's been debated in this thread. It's long, but VERY thorough. I think you'll be impressed. http://revolutionhar...r-of-babel.html

Has anyone paid attention to the continuity of presidential behavior for the last 30 years or so? Obama has been doing what Bush 2 did, who was doing what Clinton did, who was doing what Bush 1 did, who was doing what Reagan did... Note: I'm talking about execution of policies that matter to the Federal Reserve tyrants, not stuff like Clinton's sexual dalliances. At each and every point of time, they always have, and always will, attempt to take away our freedoms at exactly the fastest possible rate that they are able to proceed at, without provoking an immediate revolution. Lenin, instructing about moving a cause forward, once said: "Probe with a bayonet: if you meet steel, stop. If you meet mush, then push." Does anyone really believe that you can know what a President Romney would be like by studying the voting record of Senator Romney? If so, didn't you learn anything from watching Obama endorse all of the evil measures that he spoke against when he was a Senator? You can have Ron Paul, a black Obama, or a white Obama - those are your choices. Anyone except Ron Paul, will do exactly what his handler, appointed by the Rothschilds, tells him to do. Of course if Ron Paul does win, I will be staying up all night praying for his personal safety, but if anything did happen to him, maybe - just maybe - this country would actually wake up. If we're gonna have another 4 years of Obama, why not the enemy we know than the one we don't?

...have you ever heard of rule 38? Ben has been telling you for months about the fight for delegates in the Republican race. That fight may have just become more interesting. Especially if the so called "bound" delegates in states across the country are not actually bound at all. From http://www.fox19.com...rtl-04.facebook ----- ...the RNC rules’ provision on the unit rule make it clear that delegates aren’t bound to vote according to how most delegates from their state are voting. In fact, delegates can vote according to their own judgment and conscience, and that this is most likely to take place in a state where a state party’s winner-take-all rule has allowed a candidate to win all delegates primarily due to a split in the majority vote, or due to votes cast by non-Republican voters participating in the contest. To explain our case, we look to the language of Rule 38, which was adopted in its current form in 1964. The rule states: “no delegate shall be bound by any attempt of any state or Congressional district to impose the unit rule.” The unit rule does not prohibit a state from using a winner-take-all primary in the same way that Rule 15( prohibits most states from using a winner-take-all primary when holding a contest earlier than April 1st. However, the unit rule does prohibit binding delegates to vote according to how a majority of delegates from their state vote – again, a scenario most likely to occur in a state using the winner-take-all rule. As set out in the Rules of the Republican Party, delegates have the ability to vote according to the delegates’ preference, even if that is contrary to the outcome of each state’s primary. According to one source, the legal counsel for the Republican National Convention in 2008 stated: “[The] RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose.” Thus, if a delegate were to challenge his or her ability to vote as a free agent, he or she would have grounds under Rule 38. ... The contrast between the actual Republican Party rules governing its convention and most people’s understanding of the role of the primaries underscores the way that the party system has changed rapidly in today’s modern era. Many of the RNC rules come from a time when conventions chose nominees and the party was a meaningful institution, representing an association of individuals coming together, articulating platform positions, and choosing candidates to stand for those positions. With that understanding, the rules governing a party are those of a private group, not a government entity. A private group should have the right to nominate candidates however it wants, which is a fact that some analysts like Barone seem to have difficulty grasping, Last March, for example, Barone went so far as to criticize current nomination grounds under the bizarre pretext that the U.S. Constitution doesn’t spell out what parties should do. He wrote, “The weakest part of our political system is the presidential-nomination process. And it’s not coincidental that it’s the part of the federal system that finds least guidance in the Constitution.” From http://www.fairvote....01#.T7HKwJ9idaQ ----- Some folks here seem to think that for the Ron Paul campaign to make their best effort to take advantage of the rules of the national Republican Party, in order to win, or at the very least to make their presence felt at the convention in a big way, is somehow wrong. Food for thought: ...the Republican party is a PRIVATE organization, and does anyone really believe that the vote totals from those Diebold electronic voting machines are accurate ??? ...both of the major parties have been busy as beavers thwarting the will of the people for about 100 years now. ...in more than a few states, the state GOP party leadership has been using outright fraud to deny the Paul campaign the delegates they actually have gotten the popular votes for. ...if the other side is going to use the "rules" to its advantage, why shouldn't Paul? ...the above quotes show clearly that the outcome is still absolutely up in the air, and will be for some time. ----- I hope we all understand that the purpose of an election is to decide who is going to RULE us. There is ONE man in the race whose motivation comes from a cause bigger than just grabbing Power for himself, but rather has made efforts for 30 years, to increase freedom for everyone. I never forget that people who want to rule me, are people who want to steal the bread out of my children's mouth, in order to use it to increase their power. Socialism is always sold to the masses as a program to take from the rich and spread it around to everyone else. If that were really so, people like the Rockefellers and Goldman Sachs would not be the biggest donors to demagogues like Barack Obama. Socialism always morphs into an outright rape and holocaust for the productive middle class which is the foundation of a stable society, whereupon a measly bone is thrown to the poor, and the rest of the loot goes to the super-rich. Would-be petty tyrants who will prostitute themselves out to the international bankers to fasten the chains of slavery on their fellow man, will only give up their evil ways if they are confronted by a large percentage of their constituents speaking in unison, who tell them that we are taking your power away and if you rig the election so that we cannot take your power away, we will decorate a lamp post with your body. Those of you that talk of campaign "fairness" - what would you think of this hypothetical situation... a homeowner is awakened by the sounds of a burglar in his home; he comes out of his bedroom with his gun to confront the intruder in the living room, only to find that the intruder is only armed with a knife... so he puts down his gun and pulls out a knife instead, because that would be "fair" to the intruder. How insane is that? As far as I am concerned, every other candidate in both parties is a far greater threat to my life than that home invader. Those of you who don't like Ron Paul, can take solace in the fact that he will leave you the he11 alone. All I want is that if the other guy wins the election, that he will leave ME the he11 alone! (but I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen). H.L. Mencken said it well - "Every election is a kind of advance auction of stolen goods." The Paul campaign should do anything they can to win - period - whether anyone else thinks it's fair, or not. The 2000 election made it clear that presidential elections are not decided by popular vote... wouldn't it be really cool to have that factor working in the people's favor for once, to elect someone who's not out to rob us all blind? Studies show that Romney cannot beat Obama. This election may be our last chance not to have a "French Revolution" in this country, wiping out the wealth and progress of several generations. The most charitable thing that Paul could possibly do for all of us, even those who do not support him, is to win by any possible means. Period. If he does not win, then the most important thing he will have done, is to impress upon the minds of a very large percentage of the young in this country, the intellectual foundation of principles that make a free society work, so that we can have a second American revolution instead of a French revolution, and emerge from the ashes with Freedom, instead of a Godless Chaos leading to a fascist dictatorship.

Since the departure of JFK, this country has not had a single president that was not controlled by the international bankers. Reagan seemed to want to work for the good of the people, until that assassination attempt, then he fell right in line with the rest of them, doing what he was told. Right now all the patriots in the country are p155ed off and ready to fight the evil socialists, and if Obama gets in again they will be even more so, and maybe put enough heat on CONgress that those turkeys will have enough fear of God to slow down this country's descent to he11 in a handbasket just a little bit. If Romney gets in, probably two-thirds of them will go back to sleep. God help us. Nobody here is more disgusted with the socialist policies being promoted by the current administration than I am, but those of you singing the "Anybody but Obama" tune in support of Romney, have you really taken a critical look at the things he has supported and voted for? Just HOW, exactly, is it so much better? As for me, I'll write in Donald Duck, for all of the good it will do.

That is true, however... if you have applied for a Social Security Number (or if your parents applied for one on your behalf which you have used), then the Social Security Administration has formed a Trust, with a trust name that is spelled the same as "Your Name" except that it is written in all capital letters, i.e. "YOUR NAME"; the SSN is attached to the trust name in order to distinguish that Trust from any other such trust having a similar name. Now consider the following quote, from http://one-heaven.or...rticle/324.html Mortmanes, incorrectly listed in corrupted history books as "mortmain", is the legal fiction created in the 16th Century under the reign of King Henry VIII of England and his Venetian/Magyar advisers that the body corporate or "person" of a testamentary trust could be considered the same as a living person and therefore possess certain rights and privileges. The concept of "Mortmanes" is the foundation of the modern company/corporation. --- end quote --- The current corrupt legal system in this country, based on the old Roman civil law system, instead of the British Common Law that was in use by the Founders, will presume to treat you as if you ARE that Trust, and if you think that the SSN is "Your Number," and do not understand that the capital letters name and the SSN represent a "legal fiction" entity SEPARATE from you (the living Man or Woman), and therefore you do not rebut their presumptions at the outset, you will not succeed in your attempt to enforce your God-given inherent rights against their trespasses. I'm not sure I agree 100% with this statement down to the last detail, but I agree mostly with the general principle that it puts forth... however, if you have a Driver's License (...issued to that Trust, not to the Man!), they will presume that you have consented to give them the authority that they otherwise did not have, and you will have quite an uphill battle from the start. All of these situations can be overcome - learn how... http://www.teamlaw.net

If you want to dig deeper into these matters, also look up http://www.teamlaw.net

For Nick This article just came on the NaturalNews site today Four different approaches for preventing and healing vaccine injuries Learn more: http://www.naturalne...l#ixzz1uHf8WnhU God Bless

I am really curious to know what state; I looked in all the posts on this thread and if it was there, I missed it. I have been of the understanding that every state must allow a "religious exemption," I understood that to mean that anyone can be exempt if they make a statement that vaccination is against their personal religious beliefs; I didn't think that meant their religion had to be "Amish" or "Jehovah's Witnesses" or any other particular denomination whose leadership has made a public pronouncement prohibiting the taking of vaccines that applies to all members of that denomination; I thought that a statement of personal belief was sufficient. (I mean according to the government's own statements of what they say the statutes read; the absolute fact is that they have no such authority, regardless of what they say or claim.) The government is not known for being honest about the limits on their power; many people have been intimidated into obeying because someone working for the government deliberately deceived them about what their rights are. Nick, the story about your daughter is heart breaking. I hope that the suggestion offered by Easy is of some help. I have found http://www.naturalnews.com to have a lot of helpful advice for all kinds of health issues. The only fly in the political ointment is that many folks do not realize the legal significance of a marriage license. Almost everyone who has grown up in this society, except maybe for the Amish and a few other fundamentalist groups who hold to the older traditions, has had it drilled into their head since elementary school that the law requires anyone who gets married to obtain a marriage license. The state has absolutely ZERO authority to require anyone to get a marriage license, yet hardly anyone ever is informed of this fact. Getting a marriage license is "voluntary," even though that is another fact that they will never tell you, and such "voluntary" license is considered by them to be your advance consent to having them interfere in your marriage and the raising of your children in a variety of ways, including being forced to take vaccinations. For those of us who have been deceived into getting a marriage license, there is a solution - read more - http://www.teamlaw.n...otectFamily.htm

So... I'm expected to let them poison my kids' bodies, to get official permission to send them to a place that will poison their brains? Have a look at the recently released movie "IndoctriNation" http://www.indoctrinationmovie.com/ Count me out.

George Bush laid the foundation for the police state that Obama is now implementing, and the conservatives/Christians/Republican voters were fast asleep because "one of them" was steering the ship. When Clinton was there, they were trying to fight him tooth and nail, even though that treasonous Newt Gingrich sold them that phony bill of goods he called "The Contract with America" which was supposed to be everything the conservatives wanted, but turned out to be hot air and Bravo Sierra. So, even though I don't doubt that another 4 years of Obama, would probably do this country more harm than 4 years of Romney, I believe that having an openly Muslim fascist traitor at the helm has one advantage over anyone other than Ron Paul: the conservative electorate will probably not go back to sleep, but will continue to fight as best they can, and try to wake up more of the other slumbering sheep. Every president of the U.S. since Kennedy, has been made well aware that if he doesn't do what his "handler" (i.e. the guy that channels orders from the Rothschild bunch in Europe, to the president of the U.S.) tells him to, he will end up like Kennedy and Lincoln. It's better to know who and where your enemies are, than to have someone you mistakenly think is your best buddy, but who is really your worst enemy. Learn more about how you can stop being a slave to the owners of the private foreign corporation that calls itself "The United States Government" at http://www.teamlaw.net.

@divemaster Here is another link to a 40-page document of remedy regarding implied contracts and hidden contracts ("Sui Juris - The Meaning") that impressed me: http://www.divshare....ad/15323666-8c2

@CarbonCoyote I agree that there is quite a lot of conspiracy going on, but some parts of what's going on have a simpler explanation... i.e. the issue about the putting the mother's maiden name on the birth certificate of the child. It is not necessary to assign a conspiratorial motive to every part of every thing that the regime does... What if you want to trace your genealogy (family tree) ? I believe that would be quite a lot harder to do if the married name was on those birth certificates; then it would be necessary to study the marriage records in addition to the birth records... and when there are several marriages and divorces, it would become quite the tangled mess. We do agree that the regime is securitizing and borrowing against "birth certificates" - but that is done entirely without either the knowledge or consent of either the parents or the child (either before or after he turns 18). The basis of any Real Authority that can be made to stick, is CONSENT. The usurped "authority" that the regime exercises over the child's activity in "commerce," i.e. income tax, which is what this whole thread has primarily been focused upon, is based upon the consent at age 18. However, the usurped "authority" that does occur, at the birth of a child, is not really mainly about "commerce" and it's not based on some "trust" that the regime created at the child's birth, even though they probably did create some such entity, evidenced by the fact that the child's name on the birth certificate you are given, is written in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. The real problem, is something different that what's been discussed here so far, but is actually much more evil. Selected quotes from http://teamlaw.net/ProtectFamily.htm ...marriage is made by agreement between the spouses to be combined with the consent of the father of the bride. Neither Torah nor the Bible give an account of any other necessity. That's it. Therefore, if you have agreement between the spouses to be and consent of the bride's father, you have what is known as a “lawful marriage”. License means permission to do that which would be otherwise illegal. Where God instituted marriage between man and woman, giving man His authority to so unite by mans agreement and consent... But... "everyone knows" (i.e. has been brainwashed) that "you have to have a marriage license" - and if you don't know, most preachers will insist you get one before they will marry you. The fact that you ask for a marriage license admits that you are incompetent to be otherwise married. The license does not remove your alleged incompetence, it merely legally transfers the responsibility (ownership) of anything you create in the marriage to the party that issued the license. In Law the doctrine is called "Parens Patria", which transliterates to, “the state is the parent”. That is why Social Services is running rampant with controls alleging they have the right to control your children, to prescribe/administer drugs/contraceptives/etc. to them without your knowledge or consent and even the power to take them from you at will, even over your objection. In fact, if you refuse they can have you arrested. That is also why they have you fill out paperwork listing yourself as “parent/guardian” and for all intents and purposes, you are not the parent, you are only the guardian. ... I have to agree, if you fall into this trap and do nothing to end it, you must be ‘only the guardians’ of your children, because if you were God's children and you had the ability to procreate in God's image, creating children of your own you would never allow a corporation like Corp. U.S. or the IMF to take your children away from you and pay them a tax that you don't owe; so they can murder 40,000,000 pre-birth infants because this new culture does not want them but they do want to play without consequence. It is time to awaken to your true natures as descendant heirs of Adam and Eve and to be accountable for our families. How do you protect your family? You notice that there is no signature on the alleged Marriage License. Signature is defined as knowing willing consent. If you were not aware that the state attempting to issue you a license to marry was actually a private corporation within Corp. U.S., which is a private corporation owned by the IMF, and if you were not aware that they created the program for the purpose of removing from you your natural parental rights, if they did this without disclosure of the facts to you, then you could not have possibly signed the licensing documents. In other words what you thought was your signature does not fit the qualifying limitation of what a signature is. That means you could not possibly be married under such a license. However, if you had agreement between you and your spouse to be, and consent from the father of the bride, when you went to alleged state, you were already married before you went to them. Our WARN newsletter has complete descriptions of how to eliminate any appearance of such licensed marriages such that Corp. U.S. has to recognize that your children are in fact your children and that they do not belong to the state in any manner. --- end quotes --- THIS is why I support Team Law. www.teamlaw.net

@divemaster, thank you for the kind words, and you are welcome also. I have a close personal friend who has been dealing with "the private side" and more or less in continuous hot war with the IRS for 25 years now, and has never in all that time, spent a single minute in their custody because of it... (however they have managed to steal a few $ from him from time to time) but, even to this day, it seems that the main activity of his life and consumer of his time, is continually studying the latest info that has been published about this process. It seems that it has eaten his life. Worth it? For him, I guess it is... or his situation is that having fought them all this time, if he at any time stops fighting, they would probably eat him alive like a tidal wave - so he can't stop. For me, I have to believe that there is a way to live free without always having to look over your shoulder... and by the grace of God I will walk in it. PS: if anyone has wondered if I personally benefit if a bunch of DV folks go to Team Law... not a dime. Not one stinkin' red cent. Just so you know.

This thread is fairly similar to several others that have run their course on DV lately; several times I spent 2-3 hours writing a detailed post; divemaster has been in on those threads too, I think. I just jumped in here to have a look around before going to bed; I'll throw my 2 cents worth in, quick as I can. There are only a few different ways to address these issues; DM and some other probably think I sound like a broken record, and that's OK. One of these days I'm going to grow weary of making the effort to post into every thread of this general type that comes up. There is SOME truth here: They DO use your "birth certificate" as a "security" to borrow money against it, based on the future stream of slave tax revenue they expect from you. HOWEVER, the Trust that you are the Trustee of, is NOT chained around your ankle by the Birth Certificate, but rather it is created by the Social Security Administration when a SS# is issued, and in order to be bound up with that, you have to use it after you turn 18. Just because your parents got you a number doesn't mean anything unless you CONSENT to use it after 18. If you HAVE already so used it, that does NOT mean that you are stuck with being a slave for life. Most people are deceived into thinking that the SSN is "their number" as if it were tattooed on their hand or forehead like the so-called "mark of the beast." They have NO IDEA that the Trust is a SEPARATE PERSON from the Man or Woman who is the Trustee of that Trust. The "government" (that is, the Private Corporation that pretends to be our government, but is not) - does PRESUME as they go about treating the Man or Woman as if they WERE that Trust. If you do not challenge that presumption, you will not win. It is possible to put the "government" on legal notice that "the jig is up" - you know that the Trust is separate from the Man, and they have NO AUTHORITY to tell the Man that he must always and forever do all of his business and employment through that Trust. The Man who lends consciousness and physical capacity to the Trust's Trustee capacity, has and always will have the absolute right to act and do business separately from that Trust, in his natural sovereign capacity. It is NOT POSSIBLE for you to become the Executor or Administrator of that Trust. Period. You DON'T NEED TO. When you have business to do - you have a choice - use that Trust to do the business, if there is some reason that benefits you, or use some other means if it doesn't. That Trust, is (or can be, when you manage it properly) like a rope, with one end connected to you, and the other connected to the "government." Most people only experience one thing from that: the "government" pulls on the rope and uses it to control you. However, it IS possible, to use that rope to control THEM. Those who wish to "revoke their SSN" (which cannot be done, by the way) and get completely "out of the system" - put themselves in a position that they are likely to be completely without resources and in a desparate situation, and completely vulnerable and at the mercy of the system if it does come looking for them. Not to brag, but I am 50, and my dad started chatting with me about politics, economics, free markets, owning your own business, and why you won't succeed by working for a big company, before I was 10. I have been reading and studying about these things ever since, not just a passion but an obsession, for 40 years. In the 15 years I have had internet, I estimate I have spent 7500 hours (the majority of my "spare" time) reading stuff from many different libertarian rabble-rousers like Turner, Strout, and all of the others out there that write about the constitutionality of the income tax, and just about everything else the Feds do. As a Christian, I trust my spirit (or some of you may prefer to call it, gut instinct), as well as all that I have learned before, to evaluate each bit of the stuff I see. They all sound SO good - but some of their so-called "remedies" that are supposed to be a legal "magic bullet" to get the powers that be to leave you alone, will get you in far worse trouble than you could probably get into on your own without their "help." I have been tempted to jump into some of those methods but I just didn't have Peace about it, so I decided to just WAIT and study some more. Some of the followers of these "gurus" end up paying far more in fines, fees, penalties, or whatever, when they get crucified, than they would have had to pay in taxes if they had just been a good little sheep and gone along to get along. A lot of these gurus have come and gone. If they get a big enough following and create enough hassle and lost revenue for the "government," eventually they get crucified... but I do believe that the powers that be, deliberately allow some of these gurus to run along for a while, have a few testimonies of success, and suck up a big crowd of followers, so that the "government" can identify and track who the rebels are out there, crucify and rob them one at a time, then finally when they get tired of "shooting fish in a barrel" they attack the guru... Whereby they eliminate a whole bunch of the opponents of the regime. Just the fact that one of these "tax protester gurus" has been "out there" for a few years, is not in jail yet, and has a bunch of testimonies from followers who have been using his methods for a few years with apparent success (so far), such that they all think that they have "checkmated" the Powers that Be - proves NOTHING to me. I think it is very likely that the followers of Turner and Strout are going to regret it in the long run; that doesn't mean that I might not read some of their output just to glean from it whatever I can take from it that could be useful. By the way, I do agree with some of what Dean Clifford says... but do you want to live "outside the system" and forego much of the benefit of living in a modern technological "division of labor" society, and be harassed frequently by the State and its minions, even though you will prevail in the end - or do you hope to be able to use the labor-saving devices and productivity of society, but without being ruthlessly controlled by the system? There is ONE information source for legal remedy that I trust completely, with my life, no hesitation. Team Law (www.teamlaw.net). I do not say that no one else gets it right; some are more right than others, many are partly right. I just mean that after 7500 hours of reading the output of legions of these would-be rebel leaders, I was left with a lot of unanswered questions, which never found answers until I discovered Team Law. Maybe someone else is out there that I didn't find, but I turned over an awful lot of rocks and looked underneath, looking for ways to live free in an unfree society, and this was all I found. Go on their site, read the front page, and the section labeled "Patriot Mythology." They will confirm the parts of Truth and Real Law found in some of these gurus' pronouncements, and they will obliterate the errors... or you can follow Turner and Strout - good luck to you. You'll need it. Link to one of my earlier posts, in a thread topic related to this one: http://dinarvets.com...post__p__861160

That's fine; I don't toss my ideas into the ring to shove them down anyone's throat, or start a debate; just trying to help. You didn't say whether you did or didn't look at the linked info, and you don't have to tell me; it's none of my business. I will throw out a few more ideas for the benefit of any other folks reading this post who are interested; I definitely do not want to start one of those contentious and argumentative threads that the mods (and most everyone else) just hate. There is no doubt that what they are doing is wrong, however, we do have a choice in how we view the matter. 1) The entire government and court systems are all corrupt, hellbent on making victims of us all, and we have no remedy - we're just screwed, or 2) There has to be some explanation and remedy that I could be missing. The Congressmen and I.R.S. people that you spoke with, probably do not know the truth themselves! They are just telling you what they have been told. Those at the very top know what the fraud is, but you are not likely to be able to talk directly to them. I had a choice: view myself as a victim (or martyr), complain about what is being done and why isn't someone doing something about it, and wait for "the government" to decide on their own to quit violating my rights (fat chance) - or I could search for answers until I found out what was really happening. The fact that the "United States Government" is not that entity created by the Constitution of 1789, but rather it is a private corporation, owned outright by the International Monetary Fund, is provable. I dare anyone to seriously study that information on teamlaw.net, linked earlier, and disprove it. It cannot be done. The Trustee of Team Law has never lost a case. The fact that the relationship between the Social Security Administration and the holder of a Social Security Card, is a Trust - a separate person from the man who becomes the Trustee of that Trust - is proven. The SSA will reluctantly admit it, when forced to by an action taken against them pursuant to the Administrative Procedures Act. (usually they will so admit as soon as they realize you mean business and they will be sued if they don't.) The "rights violations" spoken of, are made possible because that private corporation, having grabbed control over "public education", has been for 100+ years now, brainwashing young minds into believing that they need the permission of "government" to do things that God Himself gives the right to every human being, to do. They therefore, contract into Social Security, driver's licenses, marriage licenses, occupational licenses, etc... all of this is by opt-in - voluntary contract. That private corporation has NO authority to force anyone to enter into contracts with it - however, once you contract away your rights, then they do what they want to you, because YOU have agreed to it! The original jurisdiction Constitution forbid any state to make anything but Gold or Silver coin a tender in payment of debts - but under a "government" that is really in fact a private corporation, they have created a debt-based monetary system, and flooded the nation with Federal Reserve Notes, creating a firestorm of inflation, such that a dollar now buys what 3-5 cents would buy in 1913; i.e. 20x-30x price increase. The "income tax" does not attach to those few intrepid souls who insist on using our nation's original Gold and Silver coins for trade... that is to say, it is a "tax" that is being charged upon those who supposedly "benefit" from the use of a Private Money System. Our ancestors who wanted a house, saved their gold coins, bought or chopped wood, gathered all of their relatives and friends to help, built the house, and dedicated it debt free, knowing that the next time that one of their friends, relatives, or neighbors needed a house built, they would help with that one. Bankers got zilch, as they deserved. More recently, people would save for 20 years or more to buy a house for cash. The bankers have used their control of the banking system to enable those who come out of school all prepared to become "consumers," to get a job, and immediately have a huge house, cars, electronics, and other things... some of which luxuries their parents saved for decades to obtain, and some of which they never had a chance to get. It really is very simple... in the same way as a parent has authority over a child as long as they provide the means to survive for that child, and when the child becomes self-sufficient, they no longer have that same level of authority... The "government" has a school system that programs the young to enter into a relationship of dependence with that "government" - by contract and agreement. That young person is programmed (falsely) to believe that the principles of law are to difficult for anyone but Lawyers to understand. They do try to make it difficult to understand the true nature of those agreements, but it is not impossible to understand, for those who make the effort. Also, the more they try to hide the facts, the harder it becomes for them to enforce the agreement, when their intended victim says "I never agreed to THAT!" By going into that (debt) system, it provides all sorts of "toys"- no waiting - and the school system deliberately is designed to create a whole society of emotionally immature adults that have no more willingness to save and wait for their desires than a two-year-old is willing to wait for what he wants... ...and all that is necessary to have it all NOW, is to get into the System like everyone else around you is doing, and the System then presumes that because you are accepting the "benefit" of their services, they own your life and can dispose of you anyway they want. No one HAS to agree to their contractual control... it's just that the bankers and the "government", in cahoots together, have designed and engineered conditions in society whereby it is somewhat inconvenient not to suck up to them. One has to follow one of several courses.... 1) jump into their system head first, be their slave, and get their goodies on their terms, i.e. sell your soul to them. 2) under the radar: live very simply, probably rural, i.e. grow your own food and trade with locals for silver coins or barter, forego working for big corporations that are part of their system; pass on the debt-fueled luxury lifestyle and probably even give up a few of the more mundane modern conveniences of life that most people would not consider extravagant. 3) use a resource like Team Law to find out that learning the law is not nearly as hard as you have been led to believe, take advantage of what modern society has to offer, and use proper legal actions to strip the "government" of their presumption that living in society means that they own your life; live well and live free. For me, it's a no-brainer. www.teamlaw.net

It is very true that you cannot be forced to pay income tax, but there is another whole aspect to the truth concerning this matter, that you really need to understand. Check this out: http://teamlaw.net/M...reedomToFascism

You guys have been debating about whether Iraq has enough liquid USD to redeem all of the IQD that investors would send in, if the RV is at anything like the rates we all dream sweet dreams about. Many months ago, there were articles posted here, a few by me, some by others, pointing out that: The CBI and the FED have the same owners... i.e. the Rothschilds; wealth of their little dynasty estimated at $ 500T. There have been long articles here with much detail about how the FED can receive all of the IQD that is redeemed by investors who want to receive USD, give them the USD they want (created out of the same thin air that they created about $16T or more to bail out their other European bankster friends), and hold the IQD for later exchange for Iraqi oil. When the FED ceased reporting the M3 money supply in 2006 (surely because everyone would realize the official inflation numbers were a lie) - the M3 according to them at that time was roughly $ 10 Trillion. However, the World Affairs Brief of February 25, 2011, stated that the total USD money supply worldwide is about $200 Trillion (www.worldaffairsbrief.com). I believe that is accurate, based on my personal belief in that news analysis venue, and also other things that I have read and studied. The rest of that post: http://dinarvets.com...post__p__622976 Over the years there have been many exquisitely detailed articles with impeccable logic posted here, but a lot of the folks that had been posting the most bulletproof analysis got weary of getting bashed and repeatedly answering obnoxious questions from people who won't do any of their own research before they jump into the fray, so we have a whole generation of members on DV that have never read the best stuff that used to be posted here, and is still available from the archives, because everyone tends to gravitate toward the newest stuff, thinking that it's the best. The FUNDAMENTALS of this investment HAVE NOT CHANGED. BTW - about the audits by Ernst and Young, and Price Waterhouse Coopers... Don't make me laugh. Another big worldwide accounting firm in the same class as those two, Arthur Andersen, kept telling investors that everything was peachy at Enron, right up the the day that they drove off the cliff. No one there has been prosecuted for that. When the UN weapons inspectors go into a country like Iraq, and they come out and tell the truth instead of what serves the powers that be, they wind up dead, by the hand of the same people that killed John F. Kennedy. Who in their right mind, thinks that the powers that are re-arranging the entire world to suit their liking, who have financed both sides of every major war in the world for the last 300 years, cannot find some bean-counters with a respectable name that will say whatever they are told to say... ? Come on, folks. One post I read almost a year ago contained this... A gentleman here said that he personally knew someone who worked at the IMF, and back at the beginning of the investment around 2004 or 2005, that IMF person told him that when the RV is actually imminent, that the bad news, lies, disinformation, etc... would be so overwhelmingly negative that he would surely want to sell off his dinars, or even to burn them - and that this would be BY DESIGN. I sensed in my spirit that that was the truth, and it cemented a resolve in me to NEVER give up on this investment, no matter what. Anyway... Iraq doesn't have to pay you, so all of you can stop worrying about that... but post-RV, you might wanna think about turning all that USD into Silver and Gold, while it still has some value... Now you can sleep well. Good night.

Just one question: how can we be so sure that the Dinar supply of 30 Trillion that everyone has been repeatedly quoting, is accurate? Who here believes ANYTHING that ANY government or central bank has to say? I certainly don't! Six months ago I would have spent 2 hours + posting a detailed analysis on a thread like this; sorry but can't do that today. I just want to throw the question out there for some of you smart guys to bat around, because I didn't read anyone else in the thread saying it. If anyone, or everyone, thinks I'm all wrong, so be it. I may or may not have time to jump back in tonight. All of those daily auctions where the CBI used (rough numbers, an average of) $200M USD per day to buy back about 234B IQD, means that in a month with 4.33 weeks of 5 days each, roughly 5T Dinar flowed INTO the CBI, so in 6 months if they kept up that rate they could have removed all of the supposed 30T Dinar from the world... Did they take some of those Dinar they sucked in, and pump them back out into the world through the GOI, through their back door, or some other means? No doubt they did, but how many? Do we have to take their word for that? What if there really are 30T Dinars, but most of them are sitting in the vault of the CBI itself, or the Fed, or the Rothschilds, or Whoever, the members of that old boys' club that have their quiet little private agreements between themselves, that those Dinar are not going to be dumped on the CBI with a demand to convert them to USD the same day they announce the RV? I have read a lot of posts here expressing the opinion that the GOI, the CBI, the FED, and all of their cronies, are out to deceive us all by as much misinformation as they can. Why wouldn't they, when it's the future of the world at stake? So, once again... how do we know... how much they will have to cash in, what it will cost, and whether they can afford it?

For those who did not see the earlier thread on this topic, if you use this link to find out what you missed, you will be glad you did! http://dinarvets.com...post__p__861160 More good stuff to be found at: http://www.teamlaw.net

Yes I have used the process; I do not work for someone else but the process will work if you do. The process could potentially be used for past years, but it's much cleaner to just use the process for the future and not try to re-do past years. Whenever the IR Code refers to a "taxpayer" they are referring to that Trust. The Trust is really what owes the taxes... HOWEVER... if the natural man, not understanding how the relationships are structured, treats the Trust's money as though it were his own... he commits an act that is called "co-mingling" if done by an officer of a corporation; he can inadvertently create a "general partnership" with that Trust, whereupon he makes himself liable for any liabilities the Trust has... then he really is obligated for that tax. That is, in fact, the situation of almost all people in the U.S.; the government has been deliberately misleading them to conduct themselves so as to fall into that liability. The problem with all this, is that many "patriots" take it upon themselves to decide what the law ought to be, and what they think is morally right, then they go to court and try to jam it down the throat of "the powers that be," then when they don't win, they cry foul and proclaim loudly that the system is rotten and that they are a martyr. Well of course the system is rotten, that's a given. However, it (at the present time) still (mostly) operates according to a certain set of rules that you CAN still use to beat them with. You can learn their rule book and beat them with it, or you can try to make them operate by the rule book your buddies in the patriot movement made up, which they declare is what the rule ought to be, and then go in and get ground into hamburger. You are dealing with people who have almost unlimited force at their disposal and they really don't care how you think they ought to act. The old cliche "Freedom isn't free" is usually interpreted to mean that the Army, fighting somewhere else, is what is keeping us free. Maybe so, I will not argue against that interpretation here and now... but for those of you who want to really live free of the criminal bankers who now control the U.S. Government and are hellbent on using it to enslave us all, "freedom isn't free" doesn't mean that you take up arms in rebellion against them, it means you have to actually study the Law and learn how to use it rather that taking someone else's hearsay as to what it means. It's not as hard as you think. There are a lot of pet theories floating around out there about how to beat the law at its own game. I'm not so sure about several of the items I'm reading here; I personally would go to the Team Law website linked in my earlier post, and look in the menu under "Patriot Mythology" and consider carefully what is offered there, then make your decision. Some of the ways that people go about trying to "fight the system" actually get them in more trouble, than they were in before they started.

Scrum, I am guessing you already know the answer to that and were just asking to provoke some thought in the fellow you were responding to, but I am going to throw an answer into the ring anyway... The first thing about "your ALL CAPITAL LETTER NAME" is... it is NOT YOUR NAME !!! From the #1 experts on this type of matter... teamlaw.net, of course... included in full here for those who don't get around to clicking on links... The Social Security Act of 1935 What is its effect? On application on an SS-5 form, the Social Security Administration creates a name and number and registers them in a database along with relevant information regarding the respective application. They then print said name and number on a pre-printed Social Security card and send a package including the card to its recipient. The recipient receives the package. The contents of the package (sometimes the card itself) plainly reserves that the card does not belong to the recipient; rather it is the property of Corp. U.S. The package also plainly instructs the recipient to activate the card with a signature if the recipient is willing to accept the responsibilities that go along with the card, which include the card is to be held in a safe place until such time as its actual owner wants it back. Corp. U.S. also reserves the right to request the return of the card at any time and that is about it. Looking over this relationship, one will discover all of the elements of a Revocable Trust (see Contracts, Trusts and the Corporation Sole) are clearly part of this relationship. Therefore, the Social Security Administration created relationship inherent with the acceptance of the card is that of a Trust that remains an agency of Corp. U.S. under Corp. U.S.’ direct control through Congressional acts. Therefore, all of the property ever acquired by such trusts remains the property of the trust’s beneficiary. In other words as a matter of law: Corp. U.S. holds equitable title to all property acquired with a Social Security number. http://teamlaw.net/SS-TrustEffect.htm Did I hear someone say that when the government owns everything, that is the very definition and essence of Communism, and the antithesis of everything we know and love, and think of as American? As in, that ugly evil empire that we spent over 40 years stockpiling nukes to deter them from nuking us? What if... we already HAD Communism, and no one knew it? "The "ALL CAPITAL LETTER NAME" is the name of that Trust. The Social Security Number is used in conjunction with that name, to distinguish that particular Trust from others with a similar or even identical name. That Trust, is a legal entity, that has this in common with a Corporation - that it is a SEPARATE PERSON from the human who lends consciousness and physical capacity to that entity. That Trust is an agency of the United States Government. Now you will understand the truth behind these facts: 1) That if you look deep within the U.S. Code, where the Office of Management and Budget keeps an index of all of the forms that the "government" uses, you can discover that the "1040" form is to be used ONLY BY FEDERAL EMPLOYEES. 2) That the Supreme Court has ruled that Wages paid to a Man (natural human being) are NOT TAXABLE by the Income Tax, yet if you go to court to fight against the IRS, expecting to win by using that ruling against them, you will almost certainly lose, big time. In their eyes, everything that "you" earn, is really the income of that Trust, which they created, and that whatever they allow you to keep from that, is an act of grace on their part. 3) That the Supreme Court has also ruled that the States have NO AUTHORITY to require any Man or Woman, to obtain a "Driver's License" to travel on public roadways, as long as their travel is personal, not commercial (for hire). In that case, they have also no authority to punish such a one for any action that has not harmed anyone - i.e. tickets only after an accident, not for "speeding" - or even DUI, for that matter. However, a Trust is incompetent to drive - that's why it must get the State's permission to do so. Of course, they have also defined in their statutes that "driving" is a commercial activity, by definition. Now they really can do anything to you that they want. 4) Whenever any part of the "government" - Federal, State, or Local, wants to do something to you, (they know exactly what they are doing, believe me) - whether income tax, traffic ticket, or whatever - they will be acting as though a certain presumption is true: that you (the Man or Woman) and that Trust, created by the Social Security Administration... are ONE AND THE SAME PERSON. Yes, the law defines that Trust as a "Person." That Trust "Person" has, by definition, NO Inherent Human Rights that are supposedly guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America. They will do whatever they want to that Trust; it is their creation; they are "God" to that Trust. They will send you a summons, saying "you must come to court to answer for _____." If you do not have evidence (of such quality that they will have no choice but to accept) that the Trust is not the same "Person" as the natural Man who acts as its Trustee, you will lose. If your argument is that they are violating your Inherent Human Rights that are supposedly guaranteed by the Constitution, you will lose. 5) If you don't want to be a slave, it will be necessary to use the federal law known as the Administrative Procedure Act, to force the Social Security Administration to admit, in writing, that they created a trust, and to define exactly what is the nature of that trust, and most especially that such trust is a separate Person from its Trustee, and to obtain from them certified copies of the same. I do not know anyone who is able to help people do this as successfully as the folks at http://www.teamlaw.net . 6) Having done that, if you are willing to stand and fight, they will be quite unable to impose on you, any exercise of "government power" that is not specifically granted to them in the Constitution... and considering that about 95% of everything that they get away with doing to people by use of the scam just described, is unconstitutional to do to a natural Man - that's quite a lot of freedom to gain! 7) For those who are Christians, as I am, and who understand that reason behind the Tithe - that because God has given us life, and breath, and brainpower, and physical strength - that therefore 10% of what we produce by means of the faculties He has given us, is to be given back to His work... then it is clear that the Income Tax is nothing more or less than an assertion by "government" that they should be entitled to even more of our production than God himself requires... as if the "government," by performing its function of maintaining public order and attempting to suppress crime, as the public servants they are supposed to be, thinks that it has more claim upon our production than God himself has. It is, in effect, a claim to be God over us; a monstrous blasphemy indeed. Hope that helps someone.