Weapons of mass destruction

[cbs71]

It's easy to sit back on your computer and get an opinion based on your favorite news channel. What a lot of people just don't get, is that the news media has their own agenda. I've been in Iraq...I've seen things with my own eyes that the news media refuses to report. I've said this before and I'll say it again, the news media reports what they want to report, and it's not necessarily the truth.

Yep! I said this in one of my early posts. We cannot rely on our local news, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, etc because they are only reporting what they want to tell us and not what we NEED to know. We have to go outside the box and educate ourselves through other media like the internet. There are some good documentaries out there that you have never heard of but of course, it is not "their" plan to let the US citizen know because we could catch on to what is really happening and make a difference.

[hame55]

Related article out today

Syria's chemical weapons: How Saddam Hussein let the genie out

09 August 2012

Anthony Tucker-Jones warns that the precedent for chemical warfare, with appalling results, was set by Saddam Hussein

While some have dismissed the potential threat posed by Syria's Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD), they have very short memories when it comes to the dangerous precedent set by Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

History now widely accepts that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was based on a blatant lie; Saddam Hussein had no residual WMD - contrary to claims made by 'sexed up' British intelligence dossiers.

This is not quite true; Saddam Hussein held a major stockpile of biological and chemical weapons up to and even after the 2003 invasion.

The reality is that thousands of chemical weapons were discovered in Iraq post-2003. Some escaped detection and were transported through Iran and Pakistan into Afghanistan and used against NATO forces.

Such was the legacy of Saddam's WMD that on 16 May 2004, in the al Baya neighbourhood of western Baghdad, two American bomb disposal experts were poisoned by an al-Qaida IED consisting of a 155mm shell containing up to four litres of deadly Sarin gas. Luckily they escaped with their lives and prevented the shell from exploding, otherwise the gas could have covered a dozen blocks, killing hundreds if not thousands.

Alarm bells should have rung around the world that here was clear evidence that there were still WMD in Iraq and that Osama bin Laden's acolytes had almost successfully deployed them against US troops. It should have been a landmark event, but instead it became a historical footnote, as it did not fit the conventional wisdom of the western liberal media.

This was the first time a non-state group had used chemical weapons on the battlefield and will not be the last. By 2010 it was reported that al-Qaida had conducted at least 100 chemical attacks on coalition forces in Iraq using mainly nerve and mustard agents.

Since 2003, Coalition forces have located and destroyed over 500 chemical weapons, many of which were 155mm shells. In contrast, Saddam's intelligence apparatus is believed to have buried up to 10,000 chemical warheads.

It is now very convenient to forget that Saddam had absolutely enormous chemical and biological weapon stockpiles that were only partially destroyed under UN auspices at Al Muthanna during the 1990s.

A decade earlier he had systematically used these against the Iranian Army and the rebellious Kurds. Upward of 100,000 Iranians were exposed to chemical weapons with 44,000 fatalities; the Kurds suffered 20,000 casualties.

After the Iran-Iraq War, Saddam still held 21,000 chemical warheads. In 1991, after the first Gulf War, he declared less than half this number to the UN. It later emerged that Iraq had stockpiled 100,000 'special munitions' during the Iran-Iraq conflict.

The UN completed the destruction of 15,000 chemical munitions (in fact it destroyed double this number of munitions and related components) in 1994.

Two years later the UN oversaw the destruction of the Al Hakim biological weapons production facility, however it claimed that there were another 30,000 chemical/biological shells still unaccounted for.

Ironically the invasion of Iraq in 2003 far from preventing Saddam's WMD from falling into terrorist hands actually accelerated the process. This lesson should be ignored at our peril.

Today all eyes are on troubled Syria, which has the largest WMD stockpile in the Middle East. No one in their right mind wants them used or dispersed as a result of the chaos engulfing the country.

Behind the scenes, contingency planners must be hoping for the best and fearing the worst.

http://www.defencemanagement.com/feature_story.asp?id=20502

Yes, Saddam had some. And we have the receipts. Washington sold Saddam the weapons he had. He was our boy in the ME for decades. Some may have been moved - but the FACT remains he was never the military threat the righties said he was. All a lie to go to war and kill our young sons in resource wars.

The rest of the WMD's? They are right here in Washington's U.S. where we use them on Iraqis - phosphorus bombs, cluster bombs, fuel-air bombs, tactical nuclear weapons (not used) , etc. some of which we used in Fallujah (including depleted uranium that is now infecting Iraqi children and US soldiers.)

Get a life - read and stop watching FOX.

[40oz]

Get a life - read and stop watching FOX.

Good post Hame55. How about a couple of links to get him started?

[yota691]

We brought Mr Bremer a container of the radioactive uranium found abandoned near the Tuwaitha nuclear facility and urged him to allow the return of inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to carry out a full survey and decontamination of Iraq.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/us-administration-served-iraqi/

Published on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 by Agence France Presse

Greenpeace Says "Frightening" Radioactivity in Iraqi Villages

Thank you dontlop, your post's are well informed, and I Hope it Educates some of these GW Bush hater's & Ocrapies supporters!! Again Thanks and Welcome to DV!!

Edited August 13, 2012 by yota691

[dontlop]

Thank you dontlop, your post's are well informed, and I Hope it Educates some of these GW Bush hater's & Ocrapies supporters!! Again Thanks and Welcome to DV!!

Secret U.S. mission hauls uranium from Iraq

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/ <<<<< msnbc story on yellow cake removed from iraq ...550 metric tons ...

Tunnels dug under the town of al-Baida near the city of Hama in northernSyria.These tunnels are an integral part of an underground factory, built by the North Koreans, for producing Syrian Scud missiles. Iraqi chemical weapons andlong-range missiles are stored in these tunnels. -2-The village of Tal Snan, north of the town of Salamija, where there is a bigSyrian air force camp.Vital parts of Iraq¶s WMD are stored there.-3-. The city of Sjinsjar on the Syrian border with the Lebanon, south of Homs city. Nayouf writes that the transfer of Iraqi WMD to Syria was organized by thecommanders of Saddam Hussein¶s Special Republican Guard, including GeneralShalish, with the help of Assif Shoakat , Bashar Assad¶s cousin. Shoakat is theCEO of Bhaha, an import/export company owned by the Assad family... <<<

http://www.scribd.com/doc/81506287/The-Iraq-%E2%80%93-Russia-%E2%80%93-Syria-WMD-Conspiracy

remember the axis of evil that included iraq syria iran and north korea ? bush is no dummy like the libs want you to think ...

what astounds me the most is 3 days after saddam was caught ,in his spider hole ,, kaddaffis nuclear program arrived in the united states .. he just so happened to surrender it as saddam was given his sodium penathol .. truth syrum ".. and told intel officers where his nuke program was being stored ... im positive we will never get that report publically

now wheres kadaffi now ... wheres saddam now .. guess where assad is headed .. they will all be hanging with arafat

[cris]

Secret U.S. mission hauls uranium from Iraq

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/ <<<<< msnbc story on yellow cake removed from iraq ...550 metric tons ...

Tunnels dug under the town of al-Baida near the city of Hama in northernSyria.These tunnels are an integral part of an underground factory, built by the North Koreans, for producing Syrian Scud missiles. Iraqi chemical weapons andlong-range missiles are stored in these tunnels. -2-The village of Tal Snan, north of the town of Salamija, where there is a bigSyrian air force camp.Vital parts of Iraq¶s WMD are stored there.-3-. The city of Sjinsjar on the Syrian border with the Lebanon, south of Homs city. Nayouf writes that the transfer of Iraqi WMD to Syria was organized by thecommanders of Saddam Hussein¶s Special Republican Guard, including GeneralShalish, with the help of Assif Shoakat , Bashar Assad¶s cousin. Shoakat is theCEO of Bhaha, an import/export company owned by the Assad family... <<<

http://www.scribd.com/doc/81506287/The-Iraq-%E2%80%93-Russia-%E2%80%93-Syria-WMD-Conspiracy

remember the axis of evil that included iraq syria iran and north korea ? bush is no dummy like the libs want you to think ...

what astounds me the most is 3 days after saddam was caught ,in his spider hole ,, kaddaffis nuclear program arrived in the united states .. he just so happened to surrender it as saddam was given his sodium penathol .. truth syrum ".. and told intel officers where his nuke program was being stored ... im positive we will never get that report publically

now wheres kadaffi now ... wheres saddam now .. guess where assad is headed .. they will all be hanging with arafat

Thanks dontlop....some of that I had forgotten, especially Kadaffi.

Some is brand new to me.....any questions from the (there were no WMD's crowd?)

[dontlop]

since saddam kept no records of his covert actions it is olny assumed that after the iraqi liberation act was signed into law in 1998 by bill clinton that called for the removal of saddam hussien and the bathe party .. that he needed to create a diversion .. so he hired the merconary group al kieda ... hired killers in the middle east .. they will kill anyone anywhere any time ...dont underestimate them ..

any way its only an assumtion that cannot be proved with papers on file at city hall in bagdad .. but he needed a diversion .. so usama bi ladin .. was called in through iraqi intelligence to attack america .. 911 was the day of his attack .. klied sheik muhammod was the master mind that had approached bin ladin in the past with his plan .. .. saddam figured we would be tied up in afganistan for years .. chasing bin ladin who wouldnt even be there... he would create a war and leave .. he was finally killed in pasistan.. ,, but if the libs had their way we would still be in afganistan looking for him .. .. well saddams diversion did not work ...

bush said himself iraq was no threat to us here in america .. but the fact that one small vile .. one canister that could be detinated in the form of a suit case bomb.. was what he was concerned ... if you remember all the news channels were talking about suit case bombs nightly on the news and what that could do to us ... right after 911 .. we had to go on the offensive ,,, not defensive ...bush warned everyone that when we go into afganistan .. the terrorists would flee and he warned them .."do not give them safe haven "

saddam thumbed his nose at bush .. and the terrorists were gathering in northern iraq .. we got that word from out kurdish friends up north ..... so in effect saddam joined in the war against the united states ,, he became allies with alkieda ... ... you see where that got him .. if left unchecked he could of supplied alkieda with what ever they needed .. including chemical or biological weapons .. bush said he was worried about them smuggling this type of vile or small canister into the us .. he said we know they were capable of doing this as proven by what they did on 911 ... and we all know drugs are smuggled here every day .. .. it was a bold move and supported by democrats and republicans to get rid of saddam .. his time had expired .. .. they went in to iraq on many issues from the united nations as well as what intell we had from around the world .. bush did nothing by himself ..

im glad bush didnt stay in afganistan with all the troops looking for bin ladin after they knew he was gone .. they made a 2 front war on terror .. the intell gathered in that region was tremendous .. and will carry us into the future .. thanks bush ...

bill clintons signing statements of iraqi liberation act 1998 .. 3 months before he bombed iraq for 4 days in december 1998 bombing iraqs wmds .. >>>> http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=55205

>>> clinton talks about implimenting iraqi liberation act and changing iraqi government

<<<< libs say bush made this up

clintons secratary of state ...>> and others on utube .. take alook libs .. see what the liberal media has been lying to you about ...

[rightsonword]

Secret U.S. mission hauls uranium from Iraq

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/ <<<<< msnbc story on yellow cake removed from iraq ...550 metric tons ...

Tunnels dug under the town of al-Baida near the city of Hama in northernSyria.These tunnels are an integral part of an underground factory, built by the North Koreans, for producing Syrian Scud missiles. Iraqi chemical weapons andlong-range missiles are stored in these tunnels. -2-The village of Tal Snan, north of the town of Salamija, where there is a bigSyrian air force camp.Vital parts of Iraq¶s WMD are stored there.-3-. The city of Sjinsjar on the Syrian border with the Lebanon, south of Homs city. Nayouf writes that the transfer of Iraqi WMD to Syria was organized by thecommanders of Saddam Hussein¶s Special Republican Guard, including GeneralShalish, with the help of Assif Shoakat , Bashar Assad¶s cousin. Shoakat is theCEO of Bhaha, an import/export company owned by the Assad family... <<<

http://www.scribd.com/doc/81506287/The-Iraq-%E2%80%93-Russia-%E2%80%93-Syria-WMD-Conspiracy

remember the axis of evil that included iraq syria iran and north korea ? bush is no dummy like the libs want you to think ...

what astounds me the most is 3 days after saddam was caught ,in his spider hole ,, kaddaffis nuclear program arrived in the united states .. he just so happened to surrender it as saddam was given his sodium penathol .. truth syrum ".. and told intel officers where his nuke program was being stored ... im positive we will never get that report publically

now wheres kadaffi now ... wheres saddam now .. guess where assad is headed .. they will all be hanging with arafat

Did you read the msnbc article you posted? It says the yellowcake found was 1.) not weapons grade (the storage was falling apart and was not enriched for nuclear activity, 2.) was made before 1991 with none made after, 3.) was documented and safe guarded by the UN. Bush claimed Saddam was buying more yellowing cake for the purpose of enrichment for a nuclear weapon. We knew pior to the 2003 invasion exactly how much yellowcake Saddam had and were it was. It wasn't of concern, hence why Bush never made it a point for invasion.

No need to comment on the conspiracy's about a "truth syrum," lol. Especially considering that the use of any 'truth" drugs are illegal according to a 1963 supreme Court ruling.

As for the Iraq, Syria, Russia moving weapons around . . . You're going to believe that all that information would not have been paraded by backers of the invasion all these years? Partisan conspiracy theories are not your friend.

[dontlop]

one more for the road >>>>

[cris]

one more for the road >>>>

Interesting video....And just like Paul.....He's a Israel hating, palestinian supporter

[Rayzur]

I swore I was gonna leave this one alone and let it ride off into where ever it went. And there are just way too many people speaking in absolutes as if there were one path with controlled variables that led to one decision by one or several men. And then for some reason yet to be understood, folks keep arguing about this with a conviction suggesting they were in some way a part of any of this…. As if they were there, and yet I see them likewise using media references, while chastising the media, as their quintessential source of reliable information.

Rightsonword, you seem to have a fairly good grasp of the overall picture, so much so I almost wonder if perhaps you are or were a member of the ‘club’… did you by any chance participate in the 2012 Yama Sakura 61 exercise at Camp Itami? Maybe you are just well read… but note that I notice ☺

In any event, I wonder if we are all talking about the same thing when we speak of WMDs? I read herein many good examples of agents that could be weaponized as WMDs, but this in itself does not make it a WMD. One of the critical components in describing a WMD is to remember we are speaking of a MASS destruction. Not an agent that if deployed would necessarily target an individual or unit, but an agent employed in such a manner as to bring about mass casualties, as in casualties that overwhelm the capability of a first tier (local) response. A response requiring formal engagement of multiple agencies via MOU under the local umbrella of HLS if in country and military if external (most generally speaking in chain of command). The newspaper/media may not consider this (albeit shallow) discussion of what is a WMD, as it’s a fairly snazzy captivating term…However if you are a ranking military, leo, or political authority discussing or making decisions about this…. you know exactly what it is, and the threshold it must reach in order to consider it as such. [Caveat, also keep in mind that this has morphed in both consideration and discussion from 2002 to what is discussed in 2012… There is considerable morph history, primarily in the media. The ranking military definition, which is not a media discussion definition, has remained fairly consistent through this time period… and earlier than this actually]

So if we look at both domestic and external discussion of WMDs, we find some of the following discussions:

“Weapons of mass destruction is a former Soviet military term which was euphemistically used to denote nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. It is now widely used, despite debate over its appropriateness, and its definition has broadened to include radiological weapons.

WMD is often referred to by the collection of modalities that make up the set of weapons: chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive (CBRNE). These are weapons that have an overwhelming, large-scale, massive impact on people, property, and/or infrastructure. 1

Weapon of mass destruction" is a generic term for radionuclides, biological and chemical agents or materials, and their delivery means produced or used for non-peaceful purposes and whose effects can cause large, catastrophic numbers of casualties 2 and/or large-scale material damage.] and their delivery means constitutes a threat to international security and is a matter of concern to NATO ”.3

Examples lifted from Congressional briefings are as follows:

“Nuclear

Inducing mass casualties via nuclear weapon is the most destructive of all WMD, however, obtaining one poses the greatest difficulty for terrorist groups. The key obstacle to building such a weapon is the availability of a sufficient quantity of fissile material — either plutonium or highly enriched uranium.

Biological

According to a recent GAO report, terrorists working outside a state-run laboratory would have to “overcome extraordinary technical and operational challenges to effectively and successfully weaponize and deliver a biological agent to cause mass casualties

Chemical

Toxic industrial chemicals such as chlorine or phosgene are easily available and

do not require great expertise to be adapted into chemical weapons sufficient to execute mass casualties. Nerve agents are more difficult to produce, and require a synthesis of multiple precursor chemicals”.

There are numerous other agents, and delivery systems which I will not include. Note in these briefing snippets, the context is one of MASS destruction. Speaking of a WMD is not the mere citation of an agent, or used to discuss a circumscribed battle event.

Then we have the briefing notes....

On October 6, 2004, the head of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer announced to the United States Senate Armed Services Committee that the group found no evidence that Iraq under Saddam Hussein had produced any weapons of mass destruction since 1991, when UN sanctions were imposed. The report found that "The ISG has not found evidence that Saddam possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but [there is] the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq, although not of a militarily significant capability." It also concluded that it was possible Hussien would pursue WMD proliferation in the future : "There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD after sanctions were lifted..."

On March 7th, in an address to the Security Council, Hans Blix, the head of UNMOVIC, appeared to take a more positive view describing current Iraqi level of cooperation as "active or even proactive". Attributing increased Iraqi initiative to "outside pressure" he stated his estimate that it would take several months for all outstanding WMD issues to be resolved. United States officials treated Blix's report dismissively.

I doubt that this hit mainstream media. If it did, great. If not, understandable. I am not here to debate its veracity, and I will not, actually…..I can not debate it past this point. Its here for your consideration and what you do with it, in terms of belief or not, is really a matter of personal choice. And sure there is a lot more to the story and yes there are probably variations on the story, and if you rely on media alone, I would guess you will go all over the planet with variations on a theme.

And before anyone projects their little ole agenda on me…. Please be advised that this is not in any way a political debate. The Commander in Chief is the Commander in Chief. I don’t have a political opinion in terms of whether or not I obey a legal order. I don’t need to blame anyone, nor will I as long as that person is or was my Commander in Chief.

And while we are on the subject…. For those of you who are genuinely and actually in fact current or former military….and I mean those who really did wear a uniform and swore an oath, …. Versus those of you who saw the movie……… To all of those brothers and sisters, … I salute your integrity in remembering your oath, and your station when speaking of our Commander in Chief, both past and present, apart from your personal political views. Vote with your pen, not your mouth, and serve your country in a manner that continues to bring honor to the uniform.

To my DV colleague DontLop… I can’t speak to the majority of your post in terms of fact, as I was either not there, or was not part of /involved with/….. being there. Except for one little ole pesky point you noted…..

after bush had congressional approval he could of gone straight for iraq and never look back .. but instead he went bact to the cia .. "head of the cia "... george tennant .. and asked are you sure about the weapons of mass destruction .. and guess what he said .. we all remember .. ...HE SAID ITS A SLAM DUNK ... yet you blame bush as if it was he who said it ...

bush only claimed he had intell that saddam had wmds (this part would be no)

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm <<<< want to read more ?

I‘m not exactly sure as to who you mean by the “we all” group you reference as those who “remember”. There were not that many people in the room when this was discussed with potus,…certainly I am not aware of anyone else here in DV that was in the room when this was discussed, either in actuality or directly thereafter. You are actually correct that he was not the one who made the actual decision, however you are not correct as to the content of the actual ciafolk briefing and the actual words that were used in the briefing that led to the decision. And I am not getting that information from any published document. I’m looking at my notes. That’s all I’m going to say.

Again, this is not even remotely a political debate for me…. I have learned long ago to accept that people believe there is huge differences between the Rep and Dems that take that office. However, my acceptance of that is not the same as enough of a belief to argue the merits of one side versus the other. Genuinely, for me it is not a political debate, its not my guy versus your guy….to me they are pretty much the same guy (at least after a year in office). In fact, sometimes I actually wonder if we all get so caught up in political debate over whose guy is better, that we actually miss that collectively, the guys are taking us down a rabbit hole, while we were arguing which one of them did it best (or worst)… Sometimes I think we miss the more salient points of what the hell is really going on….and think by way of arguing the point, we stay occupied but have not solved or won anything of actual importance.

Okay, no more for me on this one… Can someone please start a thread that I can more actively debate without breaching…. Surely…. there is something else someone can posit, ….that will engage fire in the belly discussion… without leaving me sitting on my heads and breaking a blood vessel of two in withholding commentary…. And to all my handlers and fans who may be reading this…. please note, I will go no further on this, and have not gone so far as to trigger further measures or response. Thank yew…

Oh btw, DontLop.... just for my records, … when did terrorists enter our country under Clinton? Honestly, I’m not posing that as a debate, I’m wondering what event you are recalling that I can’t seem to put my finger on…. Granted I’m on the tail end of a concussion… but I don’t really think I would forget something like that, and if I did, I should maybe take another week before returning to what I was doing….

And in the end… I’m not sure where this debate will go, not sure what it will matter, can’t figure out what it might change, and don’t know how it impacts where we are today in terms of what we might do different than what we are doing…. Of course, if none of that is relevant… then I won’t worry…

Good to be back, and seeing ya’ll…. Keep the faith, or get prozac, ….. the ride is going to be a bit bumpy, and hanging together is the best thing we can do in support of one another.

Blessings to all ``

PS I just noticed that there were indeed footnote citations in this document with the actual references, and these did not copy into this reply... So I am lifting and printing here:

1. FBI Notes: Note this is domestic

2. The DHHS defines mass casualties as more than 10,000.

3. Declaration of the Heads of State and Government, 1994 NATO Summit, held in Brussels.library.fes.de/fulltext/id/00714014.htm

Hopefully the superscript copied into this reply... [they didn;t I had to put them in manually... about where they went.. what a pain with this tiny print, and no way to superscript... so .. let me know if you want me to send you this document as an attachment... that will have correct format and citation...

[blunter]

for those who are too naive to believe about all the wmd's BS, you should checkout some of these videos. There are lot more videos in the youtube, maybe u guys can check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEGeX2SkvtE&feature=g-hist

[Carrello]

Rayzur, thank you for the information, the logic, your experience, and thank you for whatever it is that you have done and do today.

[dontlop]

Oh btw, DontLop.... just for my records, … when did terrorists enter our country under Clinton?

not sure the exact dates they came here for training to fly those airliners but im sure its out there .. somewhere around 2 years before 911 ..

in your notes .. do ya have anything on able danger .....its weird how they had photos and names of all these terrorists within a day or 2 ...

<<< learn about able danger .....theres a ton of info on "able danger"

Able Danger And Intelligence Sharing - 9/21/2005 - Part I >>>>

able danger has been coverd up long ago ... covered up ,, forgotten about ,, what ever ..

[dontlop]

george tenent himself on utube .. saying no one came to him before iraq invasion saying iraq did not have wmds .. no one .. only after invasion they changed their storys ...its only a couple minute video .. i guess clintons head of cia apointee would know ....

2 and a half minutes of libs made that up about bush knew saddam had no wmds

[zigmeister]

So we are still discussing this? Perhaps, after reading Rayzors post, if we took off the political coats and discussed "why we believe there was or was not WMD". For me, I don't know, but I do believe invading Iraq was the beginning of the Arab Spring movement. Today they no longer need bombs, they have Facebook and Twitter.

[OIFDeployer09]

Building 505 on the Iraqi AF Base Ali near Nasaria- Talill (between Baghdad and Basra) use to be the headquarters of Chemical Ali. From the side walk in front of this crumbling concrete building, looking North thru the impressive Sword gate, you will see the fantastic Ziggurat of Ur. Looking about a mile east along the irrigation ditch, you will see an empty modern office building across the sand that use to be a chemical weapons lab. I had a work order to install signage at the entrance road to the complex but snuck in for a peak and pictures. There were at least two-four foot diameter holes in the center of this two story building that go from the roof to the basement. The rooms were dark and quiet, inhabited only by jackals and snakes. As a civilian contractor I was told that the bottom floors were filled with diesel fuel which I definitely saw and smelled when I visited it to install the 4’x8’signs that declared this area to be OFF LIMITS and an NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) HAZARD. (Only the Ziggurat and this building had these large OFF LIMITS signs on the roads in.) NBC HAZARD was spray painted all over the walls as well as DANGER, KEEP OUT. This was definitely an area of concern and action during the war. Many US soldiers left messages spray painted on the walls. The building was located by the poop ponds on the base. Quite a bit of the liquid was leaching into the lab compound. I later talked to a sergeant Major from Garrison Command who got very irritated that I knew and asked about the building. I asked him if this building was involved in the WMD debate why doesn't the military come out with the facts. He told me to "leave it alone. It's not a part of the program. If you go there again, you will be arrested."

Very interesting that you mentioned this and coming from COB Adder/Tallil. I was there as a medic from 2008-2009 and was assigned to the hospital there, in the year that I was there, we had at least 5 documented cases of Testicular cancer in young males under the age of 25 that was diagnosed while at Tallil. Upon diagnosis, they were transfered back to the States for further evaluations and treatment.

I am currently returning from an additional deployment from Iraq/Kuwait 2011-2012 and trying to Demob here at Ft Hood. Going thru medical screening here is a joke. There is no compassion or interest in what possibly could have occurred or exposed to while in theater. They process you like a herd of cattle, and the only medical test they are interested in, is an HIV Blood draw. Anything else of question is to be dealt with at a VA Hospital upon your return to indiivdual States. When I questioned why Soldiers were not questioned further about health concerns or additional testing for hazard exposures, I was viewed as threat and immediatly sent to behavior health for an attitude adjustment.

Well, I am still here and demanded that my questions and requests for further testing be granted. I have now been assigned a case manager and was tested for all hazard exposures to include heavy metals and vitamin levels and mineral values. I am still here waiting for results which may take a week. No one wants to take responsibilty for their decisions or actions for all Soldiers who have had multiple tours in theater. Yet, we are coming home sick and discouraged. VA Hospitals are overwhelmed and we are now being forced at out processing to fill out VA Forms stating that we are willing to pay a $50.00 co-pay everytime we need to seek an appointment with the VA Hospital since we do not have an established service connected disability upon return from combat, we can start the paperwork here for processing, but they have already advised it could take up to 12 months for any type of consideration for approval or denial of said claims.

It's forcing the Soldiers to just give up and become sheeple and don't rock the boat, go home to your families and don't ask questions.

It willnbe interesting to see if or what comes back for the blood work and Urinalysis and what the Military's plan will be to deal with on any potentail issues.

OIF 2008-2009

OND 2011-2011

[dontlop]

<< cnn interview 11 minutes long

[PrinceAbubu]

I worked in Iraq for 3 years as a contractor in medical and security supporting our troops. I can tell you of 2 incidents where weapons of mass destruction were discovered in Iraq. In both instances, a roadside improvised explosive device (IED) was used. They were both bombs that had saren gas in them. If they actually knew what they were doing, they could have easily taken out a whole base of soldiers and contractors. Why this never made the news I don't know. Even before that happened, we had already figured out that the news media was reporting what they wanted to report...and it was also not necessarily the truth.

They report what they're TOLD to report. We'll never know who's doing the 'TELLING', but it's probably the same folks that are holding up the RV... Sorry, sometimes my conspiracy theories just can't be suppressed..

--Prince Abubu

[Rayzur]

DontLop..... ahhhhh got ya..... I was thinking of a defined event..... Yes, I see what you are saying... and yes, in that particular scenario, as a part of that scenario, there were people and in specific, a person, who came into the US and did take flying lessons.... and who later because of those flying lessons (in a fixed wing tiny plane), was able to pilot one of the jets (in some of the most complicated manuvers imaginable), in order to strike one of the buildings... (I'm fuzzy on which one this person reportedly struck).

And uhmmmm hummm sometimes, when things are not always as they seem, and there is a specific perspective favored over all others as the one that is shared with the public.... it is not therein possible to always include information... factual or not, .... which when culled for detail, would in actuality, confiict with the favored perspecitve shared with the public.

And sometimest for some people its important to be clear that they really want to know the answwers, before they go looking..... some will not like what they find. some won't be able to reconcile it with what they believe, and others will not be able to accept possibilities that would unravel the stability they need in order to live day to day..... All of which is fine. We all have to go about it the way it works for each of us individually and what we can live with as we live out our lives.

Historically, (versus present or future) alot of times, people ask me if this thing or that thing is real. And I have to ask, what does it matter? If the worst case scenario were real, how does that change your life today? What would you do different, and do you really want to know? Most of this stuff is so much bigger than us, that unless you can accept that historically, it is what it is, without judgment (about yourself, this country, or your life), I think it would better left alone.

I think most of us, need to somehow resolve the cognitive dissonance enough to hold onto the hope that its not really as mucked up as it appears to be, otherwise, we can get into this place of overwhelm that serves nothing and in the worst case, go numb, and live a life of learned helplessness..... Ya got to keep the fire in the belly, change what you can, help those you are able, and make difference in the lives you touch......

How was that for a convoluted answer that said nothing..... lol lol .... I got to go get me a garden and roll in the dirt.... :lol:

[Rayzur]

george tenent himself on utube .. saying no one came to him before iraq invasion saying iraq did not have wmds .. no one .. only after invasion they changed their storys ...its only a couple minute video .. i guess clintons head of cia apointee would know ....

2 and a half minutes of libs made that up about bush knew saddam had no wmds

Okay, I'll bite as I am facinated how this gets processed sometimes..... So for the sake of discussion (and I appreciate you are willing to have a discussion)..... Put yourself in the place of Tenent. I know its hard to do, if you've never been upper executive government managment, under constant public scrutiny..... but put yourself in his place. Then go back to that event. You are the head of THE agency that is supposed to know everything there is to know about this arena. And as it unfolds, it gets reported that there were no WMDs (of the caliber, type, etc etc) that were alledged to exist......

I genuinley want to know.... what in the name of God do you think he should have said??!!!??! Apart from the fact its this little thing we like to call plausibile deniability..... what else could he have said? Perhaps you have something you would say different, which is fine. However, in this case, I would have said exactly what he did. No one is going to share the content of a presidential decision making briefing with Charile Rose on TV. Further, he woudl have to be kind of beyond an idiot to say, well yeah Charlie, I knew there wasn't anything of substance, but I withheld it because I wanted to mess with the president.... (or some such thing).....

I am not debating the liberal of non-liberal thing... again, I personally don't see that having anything at all to do with this... and accept that you do.. and its cool..... however I am saying, I can't think of anyone I know off hand who would want to go on national TV and essentially say that in holding a high level government appointment, I discharged my duties like a complete idiot and did not serve well my president or country.

Of courae, I may be too subjective here, and therein have completely missed your point? In that, I could have missed the essence of what you were saying... so if that's the case.... nevermind :D and apologies....

[Francie26]

I don't know that Bush didn't lie about WMD's, although I don't think he did, but I do know that many libs in congress who signed on to the war were suddenly against President Bush and screaming that he lied, when they had originally agreed with him. They saw the same information he had. The weasel, John Kerry, led the pack. Or tried to. There were many others who hopped on that wagon and claimed their own innocense, when they had originally agreed that Saddam had those weapons. And don't forget, President Bush, unlike the current president, got congressional approval to go into Iraq. So no matter what they screamed later, the congressional libs did give their approval for the war.

[Francie26]

Yep! I said this in one of my early posts. We cannot rely on our local news, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, etc because they are only reporting what they want to tell us and not what we NEED to know. We have to go outside the box and educate ourselves through other media like the internet. There are some good documentaries out there that you have never heard of but of course, it is not "their" plan to let the US citizen know because we could catch on to what is really happening and make a difference.

Fox News stands head and shoulders above the others, with MSNBC being the dregs at the very bottom of the barrel.

I don't know that Bush didn't lie about WMD's, although I don't think he did, but I do know that many libs in congress who signed on to the war were suddenly against President Bush and screaming that he lied, when they had originally agreed with him. They saw the same information he had. The weasel, John Kerry, led the pack. Or tried to. There were many others who hopped on that wagon and claimed their own innocence, when they had originally agreed that Saddam had those weapons. And don't forget, President Bush, unlike the current president, got congressional approval to go into Iraq. So no matter what they screamed later, the congressional libs did give their approval for the war.

[yota691]

I don't know that Bush didn't lie about WMD's, although I don't think he did, but I do know that many libs in congress who signed on to the war were suddenly against President Bush and screaming that he lied, when they had originally agreed with him. They saw the same information he had. The weasel, John Kerry, led the pack. Or tried to. There were many others who hopped on that wagon and claimed their own innocense, when they had originally agreed that Saddam had those weapons. And don't forget, President Bush, unlike the current president, got congressional approval to go into Iraq. So no matter what they screamed later, the congressional libs did give their approval for the war.

I believe this statement is 100% correct, event after 911 I think everybody was on board!! Where I'm from the flight school that some had attended to learn how to take off is approx 5 miles from my house, I remember it as is it was yesterday. Thanks Francie26