Arizona needs a movement to repeal SB 1070

[NEODinar]

<br />i would think if  they gave the 10 million illegal mexicans amnesty that would set a presedent that anyone could just come here and get amnesty .. therefore <br /><br />the chinese could just send over 100 million chinese  and they would get amnesty .. and while they are yet illegal  they should have a "right ".. to our health care  system and we should pay their bills for them .. <br />and if you profile these chinese  that would be racism .. like they should  profile black people if the chinese invade our borders .. no if the chinese invade  like the mexicans are doing  .. then you profile chinese .. its that simple ..<br />and they should have a right to vote .. even with no id  .. and they could just vote for one of themselves to be the president of this country and vote themselves into the congress and senate .. and make laws to allow all the rest of china to come here for medical treatment and welefare  and just raise taxes on us who live and work here .. yes the democrats think our country is up for grabs <br /><br /><br />.. the spanish  speaking   need to go home to spain where they belong.. they came here long ago and killed off the indians   and took over the south west and mexico .... and now think they will take over  all of america....the spanish were removed long ago from this country .. and if you only speak spanish and are in this english speaking country .. yes you should be checked out  and removed at the expense of the mexican govt ..or you should never be let out of jail and mexico should be sanctioned till they pay for all expenses  these illegals  cost us here for holding them in jail... that mexican govt is just as  guilty as those coming here .. i say sanction the mexican govt ..maybe they would  take responsibility for their border<br />and  if you dont like  that .. you can go live with them  and stay out of this country <br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> do you know how stupid those democrats sound while they run their mouths saying what they say .. <br /><br />it makes no sense<br /><br /> vote every democrat out of office  ...they are traders  to the united states<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I guess you've heard the term. Karma's a B isn't it. Get ready to teach your grandparents Spanish there mr. republican. America is changing. Like it or hit the road.

[azgoldengirl]

One more addition to this commentary. I "was" a small business owner for 12 years until last month. Yep...the economy took me down. But!..during that time, I personally sponsored a wonderful young man of Brazilian and Costa Rican descent. (Yep..a BROWN guy) It took quite a bit of $$ and time for him to quallify as a citizen but he did it. There were several times he was asked, by law enforcement, to see is I.D.. I asked him how this made him feel and these were his own words...."I feel blessed! I feel that way because I know that I have come into this great country through the proper channels and can say with pride that I AM AN AMERICAN! I will never get angry if I am stopped because I know I will have the oppportunity to prove my citizenship. It makes me angry when the illlegals come and expect everything you and I have worked so hard for."

What a great example this young man is! Grateful and humble.

[littlefeet]

One more addition to this commentary. I "was" a small business owner for 12 years until last month. Yep...the economy took me down. But!..during that time, I personally sponsored a wonderful young man of Brazilian and Costa Rican descent. (Yep..a BROWN guy) It took quite a bit of $ and time for him to quallify as a citizen but he did it. There were several times he was asked, by law enforcement, to see is I.D.. I asked him how this made him feel and these were his own words...."I feel blessed! I feel that way because I know that I have come into this great country through the proper channels and can say with pride that I AM AN AMERICAN! I will never get angry if I am stopped because I know I will have the oppportunity to prove my citizenship. It makes me angry when the illlegals come and expect everything you and I have worked so hard for."

What a great example this young man is! Grateful and humble.

Great testimony.............he was not hiding so therefore he wasn't scared to prove his status...the way it should be

[cris]

To Texas Granny,

To every non white person that has ever had to deal with profiling and pretty much every non white adult in America has at some point or another, they know what "reasonable suspicion" means. It means simply being non white. Period. If you want to pretend racial profiling doesn't exist and that this law doesn't make it legal, then that's your opinion, but it's not very logical

NEO

I vowed to myself that I wouldnt respond to your truly innocent

and uninformed take on the state of life as it actually is in this country.

Im a tall, good looking, white guy. And every time I go through TSA,

I get pulled by the women there, along with white grandmothers and

white children....every time, except for the last time.

Making loud comments, and angrily asking a dozen TSA employees

questions about the procedures, as they stand around idly, will get

a white guy through the lines quickly.

Also, being pulled over by the police, and having them cautiously

sidle up to the drivers window with gun drawn, is common. Even for a

white guy.

Those situations I handle with humor, because I know there is a reason

for their caution. I laugh and cooperate, and hand over my legal drivers

license, registration, and insurance.

There is a reason they are on edge.....anything could happen, and the

stats show that is the case.....Criminal Profiling is almost always correct

95% of the time the criminal will indict themselves. Of course they are too

ignorant to understand that the Officer has NO choice, once they've done

that......They would be less likely to be arrested, with some education, but

that seems unlikely to happen.

Its not a color thing.....Its a criminal profiling thing....everyone is suspect,

except at the TSA apparently....Thats a ridiculous PC thing, with no concern

for the actual safety of the passengers.....As I stand, being groped, while

5 people of color walk blithely by.

Edited July 1, 2012 by cris

[DWitte]

To NeoDinar

I could sit here and start typing names for you but I'm sure you already know what they are. But FYI.......I found some guys cutting down a tree and I was very impressed by their work. I asked them how much they charged to do some work for me. Javier said things were so bad they would work for $50 a day. His friend said he would help his friend and I didn't have to pay him any extra, he just wanted to work. So I hired them. When they showed up they had their nephew with them to help out. I paid each one of them $100 for the day. They have worked for me several times since and I always pay that amount. No doubt many people would take advantage of them but not all. Some of us are very fair and treat people with the dignity and respect they deserve. That gives us the right to counter your ignorance. And your comment about how it costs taxpayers nothing to have all these illegals in this country is idiocy at its finest. Where do you get your information from? How can you possibly make a statement like that and believe it? It seems like you are just trying to antagonize people. No body can really think that. Pre school math would show you otherwise. You know, a jellyfish has no brain yet it can still exist and cause considerable damage. It seems like some humans can fall into that category. Open your eyes and you might see something. How did you get into this investment. Amazing, simply amazing.

[NEODinar]

<br />To NeoDinar<br /><br />I could sit here and start typing names for you but I'm sure you already know what they are.  But FYI.......I found some guys cutting down a tree and I was very impressed by their work.  I asked them how much they charged to do some work for me.  Javier said things were so bad they would work for $50 a day.  His friend said he would help his friend and I didn't have to pay him any extra, he just wanted to work.  So I  hired them.  When they showed up they had their nephew with them to help out.  I paid each one of them $100 for the day.  They have worked for me several times since and I always pay that amount.  No doubt many people would take advantage of them but not all.  Some of us are very fair and treat people with the dignity and respect they deserve.  That gives us the right to counter your ignorance.  And your comment about how it costs taxpayers nothing to have all these illegals in this country is idiocy at its finest.  Where do you get your information from?  How can you possibly make a statement like that and believe it?  It seems like you are just trying to antagonize people. No body can really think that. Pre school math would show you otherwise.  You know, a jellyfish has no brain yet it can still exist and cause considerable damage.  It seems like some humans can fall into that category.  Open your eyes and you might see something.  How did you get into this investment.  Amazing, simply amazing.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Ok, congrats, you are decent enough to respect hard working people when you meet them, documented or not. Good for you, you should spread some of that kindness and reason to your fellow conservatives. Having said that. How is my statement on the financial "burden" of illegals "idiocy at it's finest"? What exactly is untrue about it? Most illegals who work pay taxes, and NONE of them are entitled to any social benefits. And most only visit the emergency room is it's a matter of life or death. How does this negatively effect affect you and your sir?

<br />The state of arizona is broke due to supporting illegal aliens. Bilingual teachers in our schools and extra staff in our hospitals.  They do not pay taxes to support any of the state systems, yet they live off these every day.  I'm all for loving your neighbor, but only if they are a citizen or carry a visa. If you don't like your country, FIX IT.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Illegals do pay taxes.

[TexasGranny]

Okay folks - lets see if we help NEODinar out a little with his knowledge on the cost of illegal immigration.

This article is just one of many explaining the cost to our government.

BTW, if you, as a US citizen, try to claim children that are not legally "Yours" and/or do not live in your home as dependents on your return,

the IRS will demand proof that you contribute more than 50% of their support or they will be disallowed.

WTHR

Millions of illegal immigrants are getting a bigger tax refund than you. Eyewitness News shows a massive tax loophole that provides billions of dollars in tax credits to undocumented workers and, in many cases, people who have never stepped foot in the United States. And you are paying for it!

Note: This is part one in a two-part series. Read part two here. Also, read our follow-up story on how US lawmakers are taking notice.

INDIANAPOLIS - Inside his central Indiana office, a longtime tax consultant sits at his desk, shaking his head in disbelief.

"There is not a doubt in my mind there's huge fraud taking place here," he said, slowly flipping through the pages of a tax return.

The tax preparer does not want you to know his name for fear of reprisal, but he does want you to know about a nationwide problem with a huge price tag.

He came to 13 Investigates to blow the whistle.

"We're talking about a multi-billion dollar fraud scheme here that's taking place and no one is talking about it," he said.

The scheme involves illegal immigrants -- illegal immigrants who are filing tax returns.

How it works

The Internal Revenue Service says everyone who is employed in the United States – even those who are working here illegally – must report income and pay taxes. Of course, undocumented workers are not supposed to have a social security number. So for them to pay taxes, the IRS created what's called an ITIN, an individual taxpayer identification number. A 9-digit ITIN number issued by the IRS provides both resident and nonresident aliens with a unique identification number that allows them to file tax returns.

While that may have seemed like a good idea, it's now backfiring in a big way.

Each spring, at tax preparation offices all across the nation, many illegal immigrants are now eagerly filing tax returns to take advantage of a tax loophole, using their ITIN numbers to get huge refunds from the IRS.

The loophole is called the Additional Child Tax Credit. It's a fully-refundable credit of up to $1000 per child, and it's meant to help working families who have children living at home.

But 13 Investigates has found many undocumented workers are claiming the tax credit for kids who live in Mexico – lots of kids in Mexico.

"We've seen sometimes 10 or 12 dependents, most times nieces and nephews, on these tax forms," the whistleblower told Eyewitness News. "The more you put on there, the more you get back."

The whistleblower has thousands of examples, and he brought some of them to 13 Investigates. While identifying information such as names and addresses on the tax returns was redacted, it was still clear that the tax filers had received large tax refunds after claiming additional child tax credits for many dependents.

"Here's a return right here: we've got a $10,3000 refund for nine nieces and nephews," he said, pointing to the words "niece" and "nephew" listed on the tax forms nine separate times.

"We're getting an $11,000 refund on this tax return. There's seven nieces and nephews," he said, pointing to another set of documents. "I can bring out stacks and stacks. It's just so easy it's ridiculous."

20 kids = $30,000

WTHR spoke to several undocumented workers who confirmed it is easy.

They all agreed to talk with WTHR investigative reporter Bob Segall and a translator as long as WTHR agreed not to reveal their identity.

One of the workers, who was interviewed at his home in southern Indiana, admitted his address was used this year to file tax returns by four other undocumented workers who don't even live there. Those four workers claimed 20 children live inside the one residence and, as a result, the IRS sent the illegal immigrants tax refunds totaling $29,608.

13 Investigates saw only one little girl who lives at that address (a small mobile home). We wondered about the 20 kids claimed as tax deductions?

"They don't live here," said the undocumented worker. "The other kids are in their country of origin, which is Mexico."

He later explained none of the 20 children have ever visited the United States – let alone lived here.

So why should undocumented workers receive tax credits for children living in a foreign country, which is a violation of IRS tax rules?

"If the opportunity is there and they can give it to me, why not take advantage of it?" the worker said.

Other undocumented workers in Indiana told 13 Investigates the same thing. Their families are collecting tax refunds for children who do not live in this country. Several of the workers told WTHR they were told it was legal for them to claim the tax credit for a child who does not live in the United States.

IRS was repeatedly warned

"The magnitude of the problem has grown exponentially," said Russell George, the United States Department of Treasury's Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA).

And he says the IRS has known about the problem for years.

George has repeatedly warned the IRS that additional child tax credits are being abused by undocumented workers. In 2009, his office released an audit report that showed ITIN tax filers received about $1 billion in additional child tax credits. Last year, the inspector general released a new report showing the problem now costs American tax payers more than $4.2 billion.

"Keep in mind, we're talking $4 billion per year," he said. "It's very troubling."

What George finds even more troubling is the IRS has not taken action despite multiple warnings from the inspector general.

"Millions of people are seeking this tax credit who, we believe, are not entitled to it," said the inspector general. "We have made recommendations to [iRS] as to how they could address this, and they have not taken sufficient action in our view to solve the problem."

Other information obtained from the TIGTA audits include:

· Claims for additional child tax credits by ITIN filers have skyrocketed during the past decade, from $161 million in 2001 to $4.2 billion in tax year 2010.

· Undocumented workers filed 3.02 million tax returns in 2010. 72% of those returns (2.18 million) claimed the additional child tax credit.

· In 2010, the IRS owed undocumented workers more in claimed additional child tax credits than it collected from those workers in taxes.

Agency responds – sort of

What does the IRS have to say about all this?

The agency sent WTHR a statement, defending its policy of paying tax credits to illegal immigrants.

"The law has been clear for over a decade that eligibility for these credits does not depend on work authorization status or the type of taxpayer identification number used. Any suggestion that the IRS shouldn't be paying out these credits under current law to ITIN holders is simply incorrect. The IRS administers the law impartially and applies it as it is written," the statement said.

George disagrees with that position and believes the IRS should be doing more to prevent undocumented workers from getting billions in US tax dollars.

"The IRS is not doing something as simple as requesting sufficient documentation from people seeking this credit," he said. "Once the money goes out the door, it's nearly impossible for the IRS to get it back."

Over the past month, WTHR has tried to ask the IRS more questions about its efforts to prevent abuse involving additional child tax credits.

Despite repeated phone calls, e-mails and a visit to IRS headquarters in Washington, the agency said none of its 100,000 employees had time to meet with 13 Investigates for an interview. An IRS spokeswoman said all staff were too busy because of the tax filing deadline in mid-April.

Apparently, the IRS doesn't have time to respond to some tax preparers, either.

Last year, our whistleblower noticed dozens of undocumented workers had used phony documents and false income to claim tax credits. He reported all of it to the IRS.

"These were fraudulent, 100% fraudulent tax returns, but I got no response; absolutely none. We never heard a thing," he said. "To me, it's clear the IRS is letting this happen."

The IRS tells WTHR it can do nothing to change the current system unless it gets permission from Congress. In other words, according to the IRS, closing the loophole would require lawmakers to pass a new law specifically excluding illegal immigrants from claiming additional child tax credits.

The big questions now: Is Congress willing to do that?

What's next

Tomorrow night, 13 Investigates will show you how lawmakers are reacting to WTHR's investigation and what they plan to do about. You'll also hear why some undocumented workers say the credits are essential and should be left intact. Our investigation continues Friday night at 11:00.

Full statement to WTHR from the Internal Revenue Service

The law has been clear for over a decade that eligibility for these credits does not depend on work authorization status or the type of taxpayer identification number used. Any suggestion that the IRS shouldn't be paying out these credits under current law to ITIN holders is simply incorrect. The IRS administers the law impartially and applies it as it is written. If the law were changed, the IRS would change its programs accordingly. The IRS disagrees with TIGTA's recommendation on requiring additional documentation to verify child credit claims. As TIGTA acknowledges in this report, the IRS does not currently have the legal authority to verify and disallow the Child Tax Credit and the Additional Child Tax Credit during return processing simply because of the lack of documentation. The IRS has procedures in place specifically for the evaluation of questionable credit claims early in the processing stream and prior to issuance of a refund. The IRS continues to work to refine and improve our processes.

**********************************

Looks to me like the 50% paying taxes are footing the bill for all of these refunds.

[jg1]

1. $11 billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.htm l

3. $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html'>http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/06 04/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.htm

8. $90 billion dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html< /DIV>

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.' Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/p df/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes is Committed By Illegal Immigrants In The United States' Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!

[azgoldengirl]

1. $11 billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis..org/.../fiscalexec.htm l

3. $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis..org/...fiscalexec.html

4. $12 billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! Verify at: http://transcripts.c...4/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. Verify at http://transcripts.c.../TRANSCRIPTS/06 04/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.c.../01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.c...4/01/ldt.01.htm

8. $90 billion dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at: http://premium.cnn.c.../29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.c...01/ldt.01.html< /DIV>

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. Verify at: http://transcripts.c.../12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.' Verify at: http://www.nationalp...institute.org/p df/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. Verify at: http://www.rense.com...eral75/niht.htm

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes is Committed By Illegal Immigrants In The United States' Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!

Great job on the stats jg1!! This should be on billboards all acrossed the country. Ignorance (or apathy) is one of the reasons this amazing country is suffering at the hands of crooked politicians. Far too much trust has been given to the "system". Let's hope and pray for an election that will produce someone with integrity and an abiding love for America~

God Bless America and HAPPY BIRTHDAY to her!

[nstoolman1]

Those stats don't even reflect the 'Americans" who purposely work the system and have made it their cash cow. I am not talking about people that have lost their job through normal channels. Don't go there. I am talking about people who have not paid into the system and draw it out. SS is the same. People who have not worked a day in their life and then get the system to pay for some trumped up "illness" that nobody can prove. (Yes I have personally witnessed this) The guy was a self proclaimed pedophile and claimed he could not go into the work force for fear of his life. SS paid him almost $2000 a month to live at his parents house. He had all the booze and drugs he could buy. This started when he was 21. The politicians that allow this should be to the curb and their cushy benefits taken away.

Angry. Yes I am angry.

[NEODinar]

<br /><font size="2">1.  $11 billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.  Verify at: <a href='http://tinyurl.com/zob77''>http://tinyurl.com/zob77' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://tinyurl.com/zob77</a><br'>http://tinyurl.com/zob77</a><br />  2.  $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.  Verify at: <a href='http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.htm' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.cis..org/.../fiscalexec.htm</a> l<br />  3.  $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.  Verify at: <a href='http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html''>http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.cis..org/...fiscalexec.html</a><br />  4.  $12 billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! Verify at:  <a href='http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html''>http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://transcripts.c...4/01/ldt.0.html</a><br />  5.  $17 billion dollars a year is spent for education for the  American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.  Verify at <a href='http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/06' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://transcripts.c.../TRANSCRIPTS/06</a> 04/01/ldt.01.html<br />  6.  $3 Million dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.  Verify at: <a href='http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html''>http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://transcripts.c.../01/ldt.01.html</a><br />  7.  30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.  Verify at: <a href='http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.htm' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://transcripts.c...4/01/ldt.01.htm</a><br />  8.  $90 billion dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at: <a href='http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html''>http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://premium.cnn.c.../29/ldt.01.html</a><br />  9.  $200 billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by illegal aliens. Verify at: <a href='http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html<''>http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html<' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://transcripts.c...01/ldt.01.html<</a> /DIV><br />10.  The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens.  In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.  Verify at: <a href='http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html''>http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://transcripts.c.../12/ldt.01.html</a><br />11.  During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.  Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.  Verify at: Homeland Security Report:  <a href='http://tinyurl.com/t9sht''>http://tinyurl.com/t9sht' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://tinyurl.com/t9sht</a><br'>http://tinyurl.com/t9sht</a><br />12.  The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of  between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'  Verify at:  <a href='http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/p' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.nationalp...institute.org/p</a> df/deportation.pdf<br />13.  In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.  Verify at: <a href='http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm''>http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.rense.com...eral75/niht.htm</a><br />14.  'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes is Committed By Illegal Immigrants In The United States'  Verify at: <a href='http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml''>http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml</a><br'>http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml</a><br /> <br />The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!<br /></font><br />

<br /><br /><br />

To jg1 and Texas Granny,

nice post's friends, I appreciate the effort, didn't think I'd hear back from ya TG. Now if I may rebut. It appears you guys must have stumbled upon that laughably absurd anti immigrant conservative propagandist chain email huh? I'll address that point by point after saying a few words here. Yes illegals cost us but you people don't take into account what they also put in. it's basically a wash as far as any financial burden goes. Cases have been made on both sides of the fence that they either pay more than they consume or just slightly less. Either way they aren't the draining burden all you folks are trying to incorrectly and ignorantly claim they are. Nor are they the "criminals" you are trying to claim they are either. Most are simply hard working people trying to SURVIVE, yes simply survive and provide for their families because there are little opportunities in their home country.

Now to refute your ridiculously false chain email........

Q: Do illegal immigrants cost $338.3 billion dollars a year? More than the Iraq war?

A: A chain e-mail that makes this claim is loaded with errors and misleading assertions. Published studies vary widely but put the cost to government at a small fraction of that total.

FULL QUESTION

I wonder if much of this is true? Is this on your radar screen?

This is astounding and infuriating. Why isn’t this in the papers? Please read and pass it on.

WHY ARE WE BANKRUPT?

Informative, and mind boggling!

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.

I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL’s for verification of all the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’

Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.

Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. ‘The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.’

Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU’RE LIKE ME HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.

Are we THAT stupid? YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!

If this doesn’t bother you then just delete the message. If, on the other hand, if it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you forward it to every legal resident in the country including every representative in Washington, D.C. – five times a week for as long as it takes to restore some semblance of intelligence in our policies and enforcement thereof.

FULL ANSWER

This chain e-mail has been forwarded to us by readers many times over the past year. The most recent version adds a new angle, claiming that the amount of money taxpayers spend on illegal immigrants would be enough to "stimulate the economy." But no matter the spin, the e-mail is rife with errors.

It also contains several red flags that should tip off readers that this is more bogus than believable. For one thing, the figures given don’t add up to a "whopping $338.3 billion dollars a year" spent on illegal immigrants in the U.S., as the e-mail claims.

The e-mail lists 14 claims about illegal immigrants, all of which were included in a longer list penned by anti-immigration activist Frosty Wooldridge and published on the conservative Web site NewswithViews.com on Jan. 22, 2007. Another NewswithViews columnist, Lynn Stuter, included Wooldridge’s list, with some updated links, in an article posted on April 15, 2008.

The source cited for at least nine of the items is either the conservative Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) or the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), both of which call for more restrictive immigration laws. CIS spokesman Bryan Griffith told us that he had never seen the e-mail but that he suspected something was out there because of occasional surges in traffic that forced him to rewrite Web pages. When told about the e-mail’s contents and conclusion of a $338.3 billion yearly cost, he responded that CIS "never said anything of the like and is not going to comment on a chain e-mail that is in no way scientific."

The e-mail also continually blurs the important distinction between legal and illegal immigrants – a sign of sloppy and untrustworthy work.

Summary

Because we’re gluttons for punishment, we’ve gone through each claim in turn and report on each in detail farther down. But here are a few highlights (or lowlights) of what we found:

The e-mail includes a link to a CIS report that contradicts some of the e-mail’s own claims. The report found that illegal immigrant welfare use "tends to be very low." It also estimates the total federal net cost of households headed by illegal immigrants at under $10.4 billion, a small fraction of what this message claims.

One "paper" that is cited is a non-peer-reviewed, non-scientific study that essentially fabricates a number for illegal immigrant criminals.

Five of the links lead to transcripts of Lou Dobbs’ cable television show, which fulminates regularly against illegal immigration and is hardly a neutral source. Furthermore, in all instances, the e-mail then takes the original Dobbs reporting out of context.

So, how much do illegal immigrants cost federal, state and local governments in the U.S.? Estimates vary widely, and no consensus exists. The Urban Institute put the net national cost at $1.9 billion in 1992; a Rice University professor, whose work the Urban Institute criticized, said it was $19.3 billion in 1993. More recently, a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office examined 29 reports on state and local costs published over 15 years in an attempt to answer this question. CBO concluded that most of the estimates determined that illegal immigrants impose a net cost to state and local governments but "that impact is most likely modest." CBO said "no agreement exists as to the size of, or even the best way of measuring, that cost on a national level."

The Details

For those who want more, we take on each of the e-mail’s claims in order:

1. "$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year."

This item is completely false. The link given to "verify" the claim actually leads to an issue brief by the conservative Federation for American Immigration Reform. But the FAIR brief says nothing of the sort. It says: "Each year, state governments spend an estimated $11 billion to $22 billion to provide welfare to immigrants." That’s welfare payments in 2001 to all immigrants – both legal and illegal – plus households including U.S. citizens if they are headed by a person who was born outside the United States.

The site says the FAIR report was last updated in October 2002, but a footnote credits this statistic to a March 2003 report from the Center for Immigration Studies. CIS began as an off-shoot of FAIR. But the CIS report doesn’t actually say anything about $11 billion or $22 billion. And it explains that its references to "immigrant households" include persons here legally and persons born outside the U.S.

CIS report: Like the Census Bureau, and other academic work that has examined this question, this report looks at welfare use by immigrant and native households. Households are defined as immigrant or native based on the nativity of the household head. As already indicated, this report uses the terms immigrant and foreign-born synonymously.

CIS estimated that welfare payments to illegal immigrant households averaged $1,040 per household in 2001, mainly Medicaid "on behalf of their U.S.-born children." But the report did not attempt to come up with a total for all such households.

2. "$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens."

3. "$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens."

These figures supposedly come from a 2004 report by CIS that estimated the costs to the federal government of households headed by illegal immigrants in 2002. But the CIS report actually put the costs of food stamp, WIC and free school lunch programs to "illegal alien households" at $1.9 billion, not the $2.2 billion claimed in the e-mail. The $2.5 billion figure for Medicaid to such households is quoted accurately, but again, much of this was in benefits for U.S.-born children, who are citizens.

Most interesting is that the CIS report includes a total net cost estimate to the federal government for illegal immigrants of just under $10.4 billion for the year, after accounting for the taxes these immigrants paid. That doesn’t include any potential costs to state or local governments, but it’s a far cry from this e-mail’s cost claim of $338.3 billion.

CIS report: Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Even CIS’ figures have been questioned by other researchers. The Urban Institute reviewed a related 2003 CIS paper and concluded that its "methods overstate the percentage of the population receiving Medicaid and the share of immigrants on Medicaid, resulting in misleading conclusions about welfare use among immigrants."

Even so, the CIS report actually rebuts claims repeated by this chain e-mail:

CIS: Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don’t pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work “on the books.”

4. "$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!"

5."$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies."

Both links given to "verify" these claims lead to an April 1, 2006, episode of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN. During the show, correspondent Christine Romans cited both of these stats and attributed them to FAIR. A FAIR research paper from 2005 does include these cost projections, but a closer look shows that the underlying assumptions are inflated or unsupported.

The FAIR report starts with the presumption that there are "1.5 million school-aged illegal immigrants residing in the United States." That figure is attributed to an Urban Institute presentation that doesn’t actually say that. Instead, the Urban Institute said: "We estimate that there are about 1.4 million undocumented children under 18 with about 1.1 million of school age (5 -19)."

The FAIR report also assumes there are 2 million "U.S.-born siblings" of illegal immigrant families. However, the Urban Institute makes no estimates of U.S.-born siblings and FAIR gives no citation for its figure. And in any case, again, those U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are themselves U.S. citizens and not "illegal aliens."

6. "$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens."

7. "30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens."

Both of these claims can be traced back to that same April 1, 2006, episode of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN, in the same segment, with the same correspondent, Christine Romans. But the e-mail misrepresents what Romans said. She gave figures for people who are "not U.S. citizens," a category that would include legal residents as well as "illegal aliens."

Romans said that "according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 30 percent of federal prisoners are not U.S. citizens," adding that "most are thought to be illegal aliens." Actually, the Federal Bureau of Prisons does not keep figures on illegal immigrants. What solid numbers we can find point to a much smaller figure. A Department of Justice report from 2003 found that only 1.6 percent of the state and federal prison populations was under Immigration and Customs Enforcement jurisdiction, and thus known to be illegal immigrants. Half of these prisoners were detained only because they were here illegally, not for other crimes.

The Bureau of Prisons does track prisoners by offense when information is available. By that metric, 10.7 percent of prisoners in federal jails were incarcerated for immigration offenses in 2009. In 2006, when Romans gave her report, the figure was 10.2 percent.

The "$3 million dollar a day" figure is based on the false assumption that 30 percent of all inmates are illegal immigrants, and thus is greatly inflated.

8. "$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers."

The link to "verify" this claim is dead. However, we found a transcript of a Lou Dobbs episode on Oct. 29, 2006, in which Robert Rector of the conservative Heritage Foundation made the following statement:

Robert Rector, Oct. 29, 2006: Well, assuming that we have about 11 million immigrants in the U.S., the net cost or the total cost of services and benefits provided to them, education, welfare, general social services would be about $90 billion a year, and they would pay very little in taxes. It’s important to remember that at least half of illegal immigrants are high school dropouts.

We checked with Rector, who said he was referring to both legal and illegal low-skill immigrant households (those headed by someone who doesn’t have a high school diploma). His research also looked at many forms of government spending per household, including money spent on parks and transportation.

9. "$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens."

Again, this is from that same April 1, 2006, Lou Dobbs episode. On the show, Dobbs said that "estimates by the most authoritative and recent study put the suppressed wages at $200 billion a year, as a result of immigration, both legal and illegal." The e-mail continues its practice of ignoring any distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

We couldn’t find any study that supported Dobb’s figure.

10. "The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US"

This is false. The "verify" link leads to yet another transcript of Lou Dobbs speaking with Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation. This one is dated June 12, 2006, and Rector says, "Hispanics in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-Hispanics."

Rector said Hispanics, not illegal immigrants, as the e-mail alleges. Considering there are 45.4 million Hispanics in the country, and an estimated 11.9 million illegal immigrants, the distinction is notable. Rector’s statistic for all Hispanics is correct, according to a 2003 report from the Justice Department.

11. " During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. "

The link goes to a 2006 report written by the Republican staff of the House Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on Homeland Security. To start, the "19,500" number of "illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries" is nowhere to be found in this report. In fact, the report estimates the number of illegal immigrants coming over the southern border from countries known to harbor terrorists to be in the "hundreds." We’ve seen a similar scare tactic used previously in ads advocating for a border fence.

And the 4 million to 10 million statistic is extrapolated using some imprecise reasoning. The committee report figures that since "Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million illegal aliens" in 2005 and since "Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended," that "therefore, in 2005, as many as 10 to 4 million [sic] illegal aliens crossed into the United States." That simplistic math produces a figure starkly different from more widely accepted estimates. The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that in 2005 there were 11.1 million illegal immigrants total, living in the United States. The center also estimated that about 500,000 illegal immigrants a year came to the U.S. from 2005 to 2008.

12. "The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’ "

No, it didn’t. The National Policy Institute, a group that says it promotes the rights of "white Americans," ironically was citing figures from the liberal Center for American Progress in a report that argued against mass deportation of undocumented workers. CAP said such deportation would cost more per year than the entire Department of Homeland Security budget, illustrating "the false allure of deportation as a response to our broken immigration system."

13. "In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin."

This is another bogus figure. The email’s link leads to the original Frosty Wooldridge article, which in turn cites as its source for this figure a link to a Contra-Costa Times article, which is no longer working. Nevertheless, we were able to find a news release from the Inter-American Development Bank stating Latin American immigrants sent $45 billion in remittances in 2006. But that figure applies to all immigrants, including legal residents.

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States."

Once again, the "verify" link is dead. But a little Internet research found the article cited. An independently published, non-peer-reviewed study did estimate that nearly a million sex crimes have been committed by illegal immigrants over a seven-year period, but it employs some highly creative math and interesting assumptions to get there. The "study" is actually a pretty good case study in bad research.

The author assumes that 2 percent of illegal immigrants are sex offenders after "examining ICE reports and public records," but does not say how that figure was calculated. A bibliography cites miscellaneous Immigration and Customs Enforcement press releases and media accounts of instances of apprehending illegal immigrants who were sex offenders (seemingly manufacturing a "rate" based on anecdotal evidence). The author then makes no distinction between male and female illegal immigrants when estimating the number that are "sex offenders."

As we’ve said before, anonymous chain e-mails making dramatic claims are quite likely to be false. And that goes even for those that may seem to cite legitimate sources. This one is yet another good candidate for the "delete" key.

– Justin Bank

Sources

Steven A. Camarota, “Back Where We Started: An Examination of Trends in Immigrant Welfare Use Since Welfare Reform,” Center for Immigration Studies, March 2003.

Camarota, Steven A., "The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget," Center for Immigration Studies, August 2004.

Immigration and Welfare," Federation for American Immigration Reform, Oct 2002.

A Line in the Sand: Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border," prepared by the Majority Staff of House Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on Investigations, Nov 2006.

Goyle, Rajeev, "Deporting the Undocumented: A Cost Assessment," Center for American Progress. 26 July 2005.

Sending Money Home: Leveraging the Development Impact of Remittances," Inter-American Development Bank. 18 Oct 2006.

Schurman-Kauflin, Dr. Deborah, "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants in the United States," Violent Crimes Institute, 2006.

Martin, Jack, "Breaking the Piggy Bank: How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the Red," Federation for American Immigration Reform. June 2005.

Fix, Michael and Passel, Jeffrey, "U.S. Immigration—Trends and Implications for Schools," Immigration Studies Program, The Urban Institute, 2003.

"Estimates of the Unauthorized Immigrant Population Residing in the United States: 1990-2000," Office of Policy Planning, U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, January 2003.

"Table 169, Current Expenditure Per Pupil in Fall Enrollment in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools, by State: 1969-70 to 1999-00," Digest of Education Statistics 2002, National Center for Education Statistics, U.S. Department of Education.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/

Many studies show that illegals actually help the economy and do pay their way just as anybody else does. Get your facts straight people, and stop getting them from lou dobbs, his figures aren't accurate.

(Just another article on the subject)........http://voices.yahoo.com/illegal-immigrants-give-more-than-they-still-unwelcome-8675311.html?cat=9

[cris]

Factcheck & Snopes have been debunked

Sorry, they are Liberal biased organizations.

You'll have to do better than that.

[NEODinar]

<br />Factcheck & Snopes have been debunked<br />Sorry, they are Liberal biased organizations.<br />You'll have to do better than that.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Sorry, but simply you saying so, because you happened to hate liberals isn't cutting it cris. I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that. Each of the points was referenced by credible sources. I'm thinking until you can rebut my rebuttal with any real info aside from your biased opinion, i'll go with factcheck over a random neocon chain email that's been debunked for over 2 years now. Thanks though.

[cris]

Sorry NEO....I said it first, so you'll have to do better.

Your debunking has been debunked.....My dislike for

Left wing radicals has nothing to do with that fact....

Unless you can find a truly unbiased organization, the right

thinking people win this round.

Illegal aliens are a burden on this society. period

[TexasGranny]

Nice try NEODinar - but there is a small error on your part - the article I posted had nothing to do with an email. It was from a local investigative reporter in Indiana.

When this article came out in May, IRS did not dispute the figures. The article has never been disputed as being false or faulty in the investigative process. The

problem has been discussed in congress. But, I guess since you did not mention this $4.2 Billion loss of taxpayer money, you feel it is okay for illegals to rip-off

taxpayers. You may think $4.2 Billion is chump change but this is not the only money given away to illegals. You can stick your head in the sand and believe all

of the dems talking points if you want but it does not change the fact that illegal immigrants cost the US taxpayer. We pay for their children to be educated, they

receive free breakfast, and lunches at school, they also receive free medical because NO ONE is turned away from an emergency room in this country - regardless

of the dems talking points again. They use our welfare programs, food stamp programs, low income housing, and get special consideration for college that our

own citizens do NOT receive. All of these programs are supported by our tax dollars.

Another thing - some of the email information may not be factual - don't know - but I guarantee that there is truth in there somewhere.

Example:

Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually

Staggering Cost Of Illegal Aliens In America

The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers

2010 Statistics Illegal immigration

Data compilled from Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of Homeland Security reports indicate:

83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles , Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals

40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals

48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals

29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and Federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually

53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or "transport coyotes".

47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for

the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens

66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for

the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.

380,000 plus "anchor babies" were born in the US to illegal alien parents in just one year, making 380,000 babies automatically US citizens.

97.2% of all costs incurred from those illegal births were paid by the American taxpayers.

[R2d2dc]

Another article from the Communist Party USA!! - umbertino - get a clue - this is our country! Foreigners either enter by our rules or get the he!! out.

I doubt there is even a grain of truth in this article especially since the first sentence is totally false. NO ONE is asked for papers unless they have committed

a crime - get that - a crime. They then have to tell the authorities WHO they are and Where they live and show a form of ID just like everyone else does when

stopped for even a traffic violation. The first thing a policeman or highway patrol asks for is your drivers license and proof of insurance. If you don't have any

then you are breaking the law and can be taken to jail - it doesn't matter what color your skin is or what state you live in. That's just the way it is.

Also, the temperature was 97 degrees (considered mild in Arizona) NOT 105 - and he was not made to stand in the sun - he was in a shaded area and given a chair to sit on. It

was a legitimate stop - it took 30 minutes to clear the governor and his vehicle. Just another communist propaganda rag!

With all due respect, I have found you to be for the most part very level headed and fair, but on this I would say that you are so off base it makes my mind spin. I know that you all will neg me to death here, but I have to say this.

I live here in Arizona and to say that people are not stopped for anything except for having committed a crime is far from the truth. I have seen it happen and know people that have been stopped. Now to be fair I must say that it is not the majority of officers that do this, actually far from it, but it happens down here. I support the police and at the same time am unwilling to stand by and see a group of people the Hispanic people or anyone else be racially profiled. The Hispanic population is the majority here in Arizona and I know this is not what people want to hear but that majority are legal US Citizens. So I ask you, do you have to carry your papers as a US Citizen to walk the streets? I am not Hispanic but Caucasion and yet I will stand by the rights we have come to know and grant those same rights to All races.

Neg away, it won't change my view of this Great country which is based on Human Rights, again no disrespect intended,

r2

[TexasGranny]

R2d2dc - No - you do not have to carry ID to walk the streets in the US - however,

Have you ever been stopped for a traffic violation? Wasn't the 1st question the officer asked was to show your drivers license?

This has nothing to do with profiling. It is standard procedure no matter your skin color or sex.

If you go to the liquor store to buy beer, wine, or liquor - are you not required to show an ID? I will be 70 this year and they still ask!

If the majority of the population is hispanic, the majority of the people stopped will most likely be hispanic. Not profiling.

When the police are looking for a criminal and the description is hispanic - - why would they stop caucasians, blacks or asians.

Police Officers are just like any other group of people, there are always "bad" ones in the mix. Take doctors for example, how many times

have you been told that Dr. ???? is a quack - don't go to him. There are lawyers that will take advantage of you and your money. Not all

military live up to the expectations we have of them. There are church leaders that are crooked and sinful. You should never judge an entire

group by the lowest in the group.

BTW, it is a US federal law that documented aliens carry their papers at all times - not much different than any other country - but for some

reason our country is frowned upon for trying to protect our citizens.

[uncirculd]

in hopes I could be the punching bag!

[R2d2dc]

I agree with everything you are saying and as I stated, I am a Full supporter of the Police force and completely understand that there are those in every profession and dare I say everyplace that are not the best of us.

My point is rather that it happens. I appreciate your view and have actually got similar views with the exception of this SB 1070. Really there are laws on the books about being here illegally as well as driving without your license. So if you really look at how this bill was started and by whom it begs the question, what isn't covered by the existing laws that this one does. AZ is a heated up mess when it comes to this issue. When I travel people ask me about AZ and if it is really as racist as they hear. I would say that we are not nearly what is being said. I would say our politicians have a bit to be desired and come up with the crazy things that people read about, and the Sherrif of Maricopa County will do Anything to get in the media as well as our Govenor. I would say that we are not what the media has to say about us at all.

I am not debating the carryIng of papers, I have mine at all times, but if I were to not have them and a US citizen of Hispanic decent with an accent didn't have theirs and we were stopped at the same time I would be let go and the Hispanic person would have to prove their citizenship. It is the reality of the world. really, that is my point.

Again with respect and thanks for letting me voice my opinion without receiving too much grief, it's just my opinion,

r2

[leesburg]

when in doubt .. shoot first as questions later,, claim ignorance

[jg1]

Thanks TexasGranny, I just wanted to keep this post string going by posting about the illegal immigration statistics, you did a much better job. I had received that information some time ago, and had remembered I had it so I posted it. It makes me sick to see our armed forces fight for what we are giving away for free. Our country. Its really hard to see that we can turn around our economy, illegal immigration, and the borrowing when our own government seems to be fighting to lose it all.

I think the fore fathers of this country would be rolling over in their graves right now if they could see what we have done with the constitution and how we have interpreted it. Oh, and how politically biased our supreme court judges.