Adam's Drive by 4/4/12

[Darin]

The US and its free market economy are completely different then Iraq....just because they are owned by the same people doesnt mean they operate the same.....The biggest issue seems to be how they will back the dinar without reducing the money supply while being a pegged currency which would rely heavily on its reserves....

So you are in the camp that the audits done by the various entities are all a purposeful cover up to mask the CBI's intentions of a straight up RV?? You dont think that the CBI knows how much currency it has issued?? You dont think that by undergoing a massive deceptive way of presenting its financials that it would hinder any build of trust with Iraq especially if they want to be internationally accepted and become a reserve currency down the road??

I think its more so the fact that those numbers and information is really all we have to go off of.....there is no information saying otherwise, no evidence supporting that the numbers are a complete sham either.....so its kinda like do you have more faith in those numbers, or more faith in the repeated "forum facts" spout off by many gurus who are also claiming the RV to be around the corner every week....

I dont think they are 100% correct, but I dont feel that those numbers are off by tens of trillions of dinar either.....

Their #s may be near 100% factual, but it will really depend on how they use those #s.

Why start at 6.38T hard cash & expand to over 30T? That seems silly, so there must of been a reason. Were they intentionally spreading the currency around the globe?

[FreckledFuzz]

Their #s may be near 100% factual, but it will really depend on how they use those #s.

Why start at 6.38T hard cash & expand to over 30T? That seems silly, so there must of been a reason. Were they intentionally spreading the currency around the globe?

I believe this to be the case.

I can't provide the reading material at this time for being on a phone- but I read recently a document describing the choices Iraq had when the NIQD came out. Dollarization was intentional.

The sales of Dinar was intentional: it's purpose was to make money. It brought in much needed (usable) money to get what needed to be done. Very little dinar is in Iraq...or being used.

I am thinking this plan was more or less a modified loan of sorts...(for lack of a better explanation....maybe dinar. Consignment?)

. as I also came across 2 documents written about using Dinars for oil as well as pegging it to oil.if I have time later I can post what I found

[skitealwedrop]

This is where people tend to miss the mark. Even in America people fail to understand that a currency's value is not based upon the strength or the stability of its government. A stable government will indeed be a beneficial aspect, but the strength of any nation's currency is a strong and vibrant economy. Strong free market economies occur without overbearing regulations and Iraq is another case in point example of this. Get the government out of the way and the wealth will, as Adam says, "Re-appear".

See how America's wealth goes into hiding as the government intervenes and prevents the free flow of our economic life-cycle?

Excellent point! Thanks for the post.

[FreckledFuzz]

As promised- I decided to take a break from outdoor chores.

Most of this material wasn't easy to come by.

doc-txt search is wonderful

"The Economic Reconstruction of Iraq"

http://www.ccoyne.com/The_Economic_Reconstruction_of_Iraq_-_final.pdf

"Iraq Debt Relief"

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS21765.pdf

"Iraq Reconstruction Assistance"

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL31833.pdf

"Monetary Options for Post War Iraq"

http://www.jhu.edu/iaesbe/hankepub_files/Iraq.pdf

"Hard Lessons: The Iraq Reconstruction Experience"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/world/20081213_RECONSTRUCTION_DOC/original.pdf

"Rebuilding Iraq: Economic Reform and Transition"

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/IRFFI/Resources/IraqCEM-finalComplete.pdf

"Economic Policy and Prospects in Iraq"

http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/ppdp/2004/ppdp0401.pdf

"Iraq: Paris Club Debt Relief"

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/44019.pdf

"Should Iraq Dollarize, form a currency board..."

http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/iraqcurrencyregime.pdf

"Restarting the Economy in Iraq"

http://oversight-archive.waxman.house.gov/documents/20070206180618-70251.pdf

"Coalition Provisional Authority ORDER NUMBER 43

New Iraqi Dinar Banknotes"

http://www.iraqcoalition.org/regulations/20031014_CPAORD_43_New_Iraqi_Dinar_Banknotes.pdf

"Follow the Money: The Army Finance Corps and Iraqi Financial Independence"

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/milreview/landes_mar08.pdf

"Iraq's Currency Solution? Tie Dinar to Oil"

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/jfrankel/What_to_do_with_Iraqs_Currency.pdf

"An Iraq Currency Gameplan"

http://www.cato.org/research/articles/hanke-summer2003.pdf

"Iraq's Currency Solution"

http://www.international-economy.com/TIE_F03_Frankel.pdf

"Hugh Tant Executive Summary"

http://www.usip.org/files/file/resources/collections/histories/iraq/tant.pdf

"Reconstruction in Iraq: the Uncertain Way Ahead"

http://zunia.org/uploads/media/knowledge/Reconstruction%20in%20Iraq%20-%20the%20uncertain%20way%20ahead.pdf

[pureau79]

Actually, iraq is not some switch ready for liftoff. the entire procrastination of the cbis goals is being held up by this iraqi government. the economic laws have not shown up. they. are pumping more oil, but very little compared to potential. contractors and projects waiting to be paid for and implemented.

Over time a governments decisions will reflect the value of a currency.

Your reply seems to indicate that you were feeling stung by my comment, but I assure you there was no sting intended. Your reply also indicates that we are not far apart in our opinions... Of course the GOI has thrown kinks in the CBI's plan. See? Get governments out of private businesses and the economy will, as you say, "liftoff".

[RodandStaff]

If you don't do well in large groups have you considered group therapy?!

"Group therapy"... That sounds a lot like a group of DVer's celebrating as a group in Las Vegas to me!

group therapy, are you kidding me??????

I can't imagine having to gang up on a whole group of them therapists when I can't even help one therapist!

It is beyond my capabilities apparently to help more than one at a time

Two words Grand... "Duct Tape"!!! Works for me!!!

[imgesing]

Adam is correct on one point but very wrong on another. Its correct that Iraq's wealth did not disappear from the money supply, its still there. But it is NOT hidden behind a ridiculously undervalued currency, it is diluted by a hugely over inflated currency. There is something on the order of 3000+ times the number of dinars now then there was back when the dinar was worth $3+ USD. So the value per dinar has to go down by the same amount if the value of the money supply remains the same. To get it back you have to reduce the number of dinars by 1000 times, i.e. an RD and thus the value comes up by 1000x to $0.86, nearly a buck. Just considering the value of a dinar and not the number of them, is meaningless. $60T USD worth spread over ~20B dinars is ~$3 per dinar but that same amount spread over ~72T dinars is only ~$0.00086 per dinar. These values are likely not exactly correct, but the order of magnitude is about right. Thousands of times more units covering the same value is thousands of time less value per unit.

Show me an ACCURATE value of IRAQI dinar in circulation? Accurate or reliable source... Well there goes that theory you just put out. Maybe we can try to use the auctions.. but even that might not tell the real story.

Speculation on your numbers is just speculation. We will see what they do but I hope what you think is an assessment of their monitary assets is wrong. I am actually betting on it. Peace .

[cgbrown]

So my question is : How did we come to close the 'official Thursday Chat" before many had a chance to respond, yet the 'drive-by chat" which provided little information tends to linger on??

[Adam Montana]

So my question is : How did we come to close the 'official Thursday Chat" before many had a chance to respond, yet the 'drive-by chat" which provided little information tends to linger on??

That thread veered off topic, so I closed it. If anyone has any relevant responses to the thread, they are free to open a new one.

[grand pubah]

"Group therapy"... That sounds a lot like a group of DVer's celebrating as a group in Las Vegas to me!

Two words Grand... "Duct Tape"!!! Works for me!!!

wow Rod maybe the duct tape was the missing element!

I guess I have a tendency to overcomplicate things

(Maybe that will help mus stay on topic in this thread....)

[thatoneguy]

1.)The US and its free market economy are completely different then Iraq....just because they are owned by the same people doesnt mean they operate the same.....The biggest issue seems to be how they will back the dinar without reducing the money supply while being a pegged currency which would rely heavily on its reserves....

2.)So you are in the camp that the audits done by the various entities are all a purposeful cover up to mask the CBI's intentions of a straight up RV?? You dont think that the CBI knows how much currency it has issued?? You dont think that by undergoing a massive deceptive way of presenting its financials that it would hinder any build of trust with Iraq especially if they want to be internationally accepted and become a reserve currency down the road??

1.)I think what tampa was saying is that our dinar will be cashed in and vaulted for later petro purchases whilst our payout will be created as all of our dollars are, from thin air, therefore never affecting the CBI's bottom line. I'm not telling you how to think, but you kinda have to put on a big boy hat, such as the Rothschilds and understand that they're not committing to a project that isn't worth time or money. A LOP means that they only make money from fractional banking, and maybe that's the long term plan? I see more immediate goals.

2.) You can't be so naive to think that it's all black and white when you're dealing with amounts of money that can appear and disappear with the push of a button or stroke of a pen. Big money breeds big crooks. Transparency isn't their best interest. I could go till I'm blue in the face, but unless you see the grey in the world and how to operate in it, I can't explain. Bank bailouts after the fleecing of America. The good ol boy network. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Etc. Sucks to say, but that's just the way it is.

[keepmwlknfny]

1.)I think what tampa was saying is that our dinar will be cashed in and vaulted for later petro purchases whilst our payout will be created as all of our dollars are, from thin air, therefore never affecting the CBI's bottom line. I'm not telling you how to think, but you kinda have to put on a big boy hat, such as the Rothschilds and understand that they're not committing to a project that isn't worth time or money. A LOP means that they only make money from fractional banking, and maybe that's the long term plan? I see more immediate goals.

2.) You can't be so naive to think that it's all black and white when you're dealing with amounts of money that can appear and disappear with the push of a button or stroke of a pen. Big money breeds big crooks. Transparency isn't their best interest. I could go till I'm blue in the face, but unless you see the grey in the world and how to operate in it, I can't explain. Bank bailouts after the fleecing of America. The good ol boy network. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Etc. Sucks to say, but that's just the way it is.

1) So the US is gonna buy oil with dinar after part of the motives for going to war in the first place was because Iraq would no longer accept USD for oil and were completely disregarding the OPEC laws/regulations?? And then on top of that, the US is gonna take on trillions of dollars of debt for cashing us out? That seems to be what your saying with the "created payout from thin air" statement....Im not sure by what you mean with the a lop means they will only make money from fractional banking.....

2) I know not everything is going to be black and white, but the evidence is overwhelming.....most peoples thoughts are all based on the hope and a prayer that the CBI is intentionally lying about its numbers but stating it as fact.....if those numbers are correct it doesnt matter what "deals" are supposedly in place because a country of 30 million people having a money supply larger then the majority of the world is just not gonna happen....

[thatoneguy]

1) So the US is gonna buy oil with dinar after part of the motives for going to war in the first place was because Iraq would no longer accept USD for oil and were completely disregarding the OPEC laws/regulations?? And then on top of that, the US is gonna take on trillions of dollars of debt for cashing us out? That seems to be what your saying with the "created payout from thin air" statement....Im not sure by what you mean with the a lop means they will only make money from fractional banking.....

2) I know not everything is going to be black and white, but the evidence is overwhelming.....most peoples thoughts are all based on the hope and a prayer that the CBI is intentionally lying about its numbers but stating it as fact.....if those numbers are correct it doesnt matter what "deals" are supposedly in place because a country of 30 million people having a money supply larger then the majority of the world is just not gonna happen....

The CBI is a private entity. Lets assume the Rothschilds own it. LOPin the currency would deflate their reserves a 1000 fold. As these guys have thought many moves ahead, and are in the business of power and money, It just doesn't make sense. Banks aren't in the business of relinquishing their wealth, especially when a countries assets exceed their debatable money supply. So rather than the CBI only making money the old fashioned way, they have an opportunity to RV/RI the currency to pre Saddam value and make money the old fashioned way. This is all just total opinion, as I'm not groomed in finance. I guess I attempt to see a big pic of who/what/why/how and run with it. Plus my crippling ADD makes putting together a credible argument very tedious.

I wish I knew how to argue your first point. Not sure if the 'dinar 4 oil' was the brainchild of other posts, or if in fact, it is true. I mean, we didn't go to war for WMD's. So, yes. This is something way over my head. Not sure where or how to begin, so I respectfully tap out.

In closing, curious what your opinion is on why the LOP hasn't taken place yet? Seems with all that supposed currency out there, that'd be the most logical thing to do. Thanks for responding. Hearing different aspects is WAY better than taking it all face value. Chao.

[keepmwlknfny]

The CBI is a private entity. Lets assume the Rothschilds own it. LOPin the currency would deflate their reserves a 1000 fold. As these guys have thought many moves ahead, and are in the business of power and money, It just doesn't make sense. Banks aren't in the business of relinquishing their wealth, especially when a countries assets exceed their debatable money supply. So rather than the CBI only making money the old fashioned way, they have an opportunity to RV/RI the currency to pre Saddam value and make money the old fashioned way. This is all just total opinion, as I'm not groomed in finance. I guess I attempt to see a big pic of who/what/why/how and run with it. Plus my crippling ADD makes putting together a credible argument very tedious.

I wish I knew how to argue your first point. Not sure if the 'dinar 4 oil' was the brainchild of other posts, or if in fact, it is true. I mean, we didn't go to war for WMD's. So, yes. This is something way over my head. Not sure where or how to begin, so I respectfully tap out.

In closing, curious what your opinion is on why the LOP hasn't taken place yet? Seems with all that supposed currency out there, that'd be the most logical thing to do. Thanks for responding. Hearing different aspects is WAY better than taking it all face value. Chao.

How would a lop deflate anyones reserves though? Lets say they have 1 trillion dinar now which would be valued at like 850 million USD.....if they lopped that 1 trillion becomes 1 billion dinar still valued at 850 milllion....So there reallly wasnt any value lost, the reserves would have the same value. Of course bankers are out to get money, no argument from you there! LOL But they also dont like paying out money either!

Now which assets are you referring to when you say they exceed the money supply? I think even if you add up the value of their proven reserves of oil and gas it still doesnt meet the money supply.....could be mistaken but I think I remember talking about this very topic with someone else....

There could be many reasons why they havent done anything either way lop or rv.....main ones I can think of off the top of my head is of course wanting a completely stable environment to pull this off in, including getting inflation under control and making sure they can maintain it! Also the banking sector is WAY behind as we see in many articles from time to time.....in either scenario they choose, they might not be ready to handle such a change....both paths have a end result in a higher valued dinar! Seems to have been a plan in the works for sometime and they knew it would take awhile.....hell this is Iraq! Plain and simple answer, they take forever to do anything! Hahaha I mean they set a world record for time taken to form a govt!!!

Edited April 8, 2012 by keepmwlknfny

[20MillionDinar]

I do sir.... Donald Trump just did this last week. For all the estimated resources, minerals, currencies, households,military, automobiles, skyscrapers and acre per acre in the US is 28.2 TRILLION after the deduction of the 15.8 TRILLION debt that is currently owed. This is the estimate that was giving LOCK STOCK AND BARREL if someone wanted to write a check for us and our country. Hope this helps!! This is still a very wealthy country!!

Thanks for the drive by brotha, keep the faith people.

Roll RV!!

If this is true, then in basically the past 10 years we have pissed away 1/3 of our entire country's wealth! WOW! At this rate, the US will owe more than we are actually worth within the next 20 years...

[Adam Montana]

If this is true, then in basically the past 10 years we have pissed away 1/3 of our entire country's wealth! WOW! At this rate, the US will owe more than we are actually worth within the next 20 years...

I doubt it will even take that long if the current spending spree isn't curbed, and FAST.

[zantac]

Wealth does not simply "disappear". I'm taking that point to the bank at one point

Hi Adam, sorry you are wrong mate....i got wed to my wife 20 years ago....it only took 5 years for my wealth to disappear as she kept going to the bank taking it all out

[PBRL]

Thanks Adam, I only like listening to what you have to say. You are more thorough and to the point.

Hope we all get a nice RV soon.

[dvforumuser]

Show me an ACCURATE value of IRAQI dinar in circulation? Accurate or reliable source...

Just go to cbi.iq .

Well there goes that theory you just put out. Maybe we can try to use the auctions.. but even that might not tell the real story.

Speculation on your numbers is just speculation. We will see what they do but I hope what you think is an assessment of their monitary assets is wrong. I am actually betting on it. Peace .

As long as the CBI's figures on the money supply and reserves are anywhere close to reality that is plenty close enough to be sure that a 0.10 or greater RV can not occur. Maybe instead of $60B in reserves they have $120B, but $6T let alone $60T? Not a chance. Likewise maybe M2 is only 50T dinar instead of 72T dinar as they say, or maybe its only 20T dinar, but is it only 60B dinar? No way. Iraq's money supply is so big and their reserves so small that we don't have to know those numbers particularly accurately to know a huge RV (e.g. a 100x or 10,000% RV to 0.10 or greater) can not occur. Edited April 10, 2012 by dvforumuser

[bamjack75]

Just go to cbi.iq .

As long as the CBI's figures on the money supply and reserves are anywhere close to reality that is plenty close enough to be sure that a 0.10 or greater RV can not occur. Maybe instead of $60B in reserves they have $120B, but $6T let alone $60T? Not a chance. Likewise maybe M2 is only 50T dinar instead of 72T dinar as they say, or maybe its only 20T dinar, but is it only 60B dinar? No way. Iraq's money supply is so big and their reserves so small that we don't have to know those numbers particularly accurately to know a huge RV (e.g. a 100x or 10,000% RV to 0.10 or greater) can not occur.

Are you hurting for attention that much that you come on Adam's post and say no way this is going to happen @ .10? You know full well Adam'position on this. You are pathetic, arrogant and just rude. Go back where you belong,

Edited April 10, 2012 by bamjack75

[Adam Montana]

Hi Adam, sorry you are wrong mate....i got wed to my wife 20 years ago....it only took 5 years for my wealth to disappear as she kept going to the bank taking it all out

Thanks for the laugh, but my argument is the same... it was transferred from your account to hers or wherever she spent it, but it did not actually "disappear".

You just no longer have access to it

[dhardage]

Thanks for the laugh, but my argument is the same... it was transferred from your account to hers or wherever she spent it, but it did not actually "disappear".

You just no longer have access to it

Man walks into a tax office to get his taxes done.........

The preparer asks if he has any more income. He explains that his wife said they got an insurance settlement, but he didn't remember getting it. The preparer asks how much the settlement was. His answer "2 million dollars". The preparer asks if he could call his wife to find out if they actually received the money. His answer "I don't know where she is. She just disappeared". I think they got the money. Just sayin

[imgesing]

Adam is correct on one point but very wrong on another. Its correct that Iraq's wealth did not disappear from the money supply, its still there. But it is NOT hidden behind a ridiculously undervalued currency, it is diluted by a hugely over inflated currency. There is something on the order of 3000+ times the number of dinars now then there was back when the dinar was worth $3+ USD. So the value per dinar has to go down by the same amount if the value of the money supply remains the same. To get it back you have to reduce the number of dinars by 1000 times, i.e. an RD and thus the value comes up by 1000x to $0.86, nearly a buck. Just considering the value of a dinar and not the number of them, is meaningless. $60T USD worth spread over ~20B dinars is ~$3 per dinar but that same amount spread over ~72T dinars is only ~$0.00086 per dinar. These values are likely not exactly correct, but the order of magnitude is about right. Thousands of times more units covering the same value is thousands of time less value per unit.

What is the life cycle of their currency (circulating currency has a life cycle)? Not the new ones we have but those in internal circulation? So many have some reference and yet the REAL or GREATER truth is we have no clue where this currency has been collected or dispersed and even distroyed. So you can talk numbers and currency and TRY to get a fix on a rate but the truth is you are clueless. I mean that in sincere due respect but this is the nature of this investment. MAYBE you are close to some accuracy but I personally do not think so. I dont believe we have an accuracte knowledge of the workings of the IRAQI DINAR. This is what gives the IMF such a strong and powerful leverage. If you disagree with what I am saying I stand humbly corrected. I just do not believe that many here can put me in a more informed stance.

I always state that I hope this concludes soon and we all do well. I still feel that way. I believe this cant go on for much longer, and yet I felt that way last year. LOL

Peace.

[keepmwlknfny]

What is the life cycle of their currency (circulating currency has a life cycle)? Not the new ones we have but those in internal circulation? So many have some reference and yet the REAL or GREATER truth is we have no clue where this currency has been collected or dispersed and even distroyed. So you can talk numbers and currency and TRY to get a fix on a rate but the truth is you are clueless. I mean that in sincere due respect but this is the nature of this investment. MAYBE you are close to some accuracy but I personally do not think so. I dont believe we have an accuracte knowledge of the workings of the IRAQI DINAR. This is what gives the IMF such a strong and powerful leverage. If you disagree with what I am saying I stand humbly corrected. I just do not believe that many here can put me in a more informed stance.

I always state that I hope this concludes soon and we all do well. I still feel that way. I believe this cant go on for much longer, and yet I felt that way last year. LOL

Peace.

In all fairness.....

a - Currency outside banks, i.e., the currency component of the money supply as

shown in the Analytical Balance sheet (Item 8) which is derived from the following sources

(currency put into circulation reported by Issuing Dept. less vault cash(item 8.1 of Analytical

Balance Sheet) reported by Research & Statistics Dept.). From December 2003, currency in

circulation is the new currency issued by the CBI less redemption of old and damaged new

currency notes. Prior to October 2003, currency in circulation is all Iraqi Dinar (other than the 25

swiss Dinar notes) issued by the CBI (both Swiss and Saddam Dinar at face value) less

redemption of old and damaged notes and issued currency in vaults of CBI.

b - Bank reserves:

ID current account (item 10.1)

Overnight ID deposits (item 10.3)

ID vault cash (item 8.1)

5. Money Supply (M2)

Monthly: Reported by Research & Statistics Department (as at the end of the month,

in billions of Dinar) from the monthly regulatory reports of all commercial banks.

Currency in Circulation outside of banks (see 4.a above)

Deposits in Commercial Banks, excluding central government deposits, interbank

accounts, and accounts of a current nature.

Weekly: Reported by Research and Statistics Department as at the end of every

Thursday.

Currency in Circulation outside of banks is currency put into circulation as

reported weekly by Issuing Dept. less dinar cash in vaults of banks as reported by banks in the

“Monthly Reserve Calculation Period Report of Deposits and Vault Cash” .

This comes from them and how they report their own financial statements which is also followed up on by the annual audits by outside agencies.....So they are at least saying that the numbers they report thats in circulation, does NOT include currency in vaults/currency not issued and bills that have been turned in or exchanged for new bills and are destroyed.....

I dont think the numbers they report are 100% accurate, but are probly fair in estimate.......unfortunately.....

[imgesing]

In all fairness.....

a - Currency outside banks, i.e., the currency component of the money supply as

shown in the Analytical Balance sheet (Item 8) which is derived from the following sources

(currency put into circulation reported by Issuing Dept. less vault cash(item 8.1 of Analytical

Balance Sheet) reported by Research & Statistics Dept.). From December 2003, currency in

circulation is the new currency issued by the CBI less redemption of old and damaged new

currency notes. Prior to October 2003, currency in circulation is all Iraqi Dinar (other than the 25

swiss Dinar notes) issued by the CBI (both Swiss and Saddam Dinar at face value) less

redemption of old and damaged notes and issued currency in vaults of CBI.

b - Bank reserves:

ID current account (item 10.1)

Overnight ID deposits (item 10.3)

ID vault cash (item 8.1)

5. Money Supply (M2)

Monthly: Reported by Research & Statistics Department (as at the end of the month,

in billions of Dinar) from the monthly regulatory reports of all commercial banks.

Currency in Circulation outside of banks (see 4.a above)

Deposits in Commercial Banks, excluding central government deposits, interbank

accounts, and accounts of a current nature.

Weekly: Reported by Research and Statistics Department as at the end of every

Thursday.

Currency in Circulation outside of banks is currency put into circulation as

reported weekly by Issuing Dept. less dinar cash in vaults of banks as reported by banks in the

“Monthly Reserve Calculation Period Report of Deposits and Vault Cash” .

This comes from them and how they report their own financial statements which is also followed up on by the annual audits by outside agencies.....So they are at least saying that the numbers they report thats in circulation, does NOT include currency in vaults/currency not issued and bills that have been turned in or exchanged for new bills and are destroyed.....

I dont think the numbers they report are 100% accurate, but are probly fair in estimate.......unfortunately.....

Well you use 2003 and as a guide line. DO you think the USA has an accurate idea of how much money is in our circulation (published to us) and do you think they would tell us the true debt? DO you think the data for how much gold is in reserve is also something we would be informed of? The true nature of debt to currency in our country and what is owed to the FEDERAL RESERVE, let alone other countries is something we wont be previed to. To believe this reported data would be foolish. It is akin to showing your cards at a poker match. It simply wont be revealed or known publically (even if that is how it is proposed to be). So of course all we have is the DATA we are given. As I said before this does not factor into everything needed to RV. Yet, many here do their due diligence in trying to create some basis to factor a value from. I actually enjoy and learn at times from this. YET, I stand firm in still believing we are all being held captive by a system nationally and internationally whose true nature is hidden in order to give some control over trade and economic stabilities etc. We wont know an amount for this RV until it happens... In all the time I have been here I have at times stumbled but I never have stated anything with out some basis of knowledge or fore thought. I dont mislead... I am saying this post as my opinion. Like I said before i could be wrong... Maybe we are given all the data.... Again I doubt it highly. How much DINAR is held by the USA? How much is in circulation in IRAQ? How much has been sold to us small guys on these sites? Some many true unknowns... I have said this before on Adams chat, we should have a time line. This would reveal a clear picture of what has been done and the movement of IRAQ would not seem as scattered...

I hope you are well. Its been a while since we have exchanged some thoughts.

Peace

Edited May 1, 2012 by imgesing