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THE $50,000 DOLLAR BAG OF GROCERIES......


Legolas
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Well i guess we will be eating crow if it goes 6 more months and nothing has happend,but at least we are trying to be a little more positive about it

when the articles seem to be stating they want to be equal to the dollar over time. you always write a whole novel about how bad

or low this investment will pay off, why keep saying it so many times? we all get yours and the other lopsters view by now.

If you comment more on the new articles without writing a long negative book eveytime im sure alot of people here at DV would enjoy reading your

very intelligent input much more.

i agree with you, the negative act is getting kinda old.

the saving people from themselves thing is real sad.... fact

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Well i guess we will be eating crow if it goes 6 more months and nothing has happend,but at least we are trying to be a little more positive about it

when the articles seem to be stating they want to be equal to the dollar over time. you always write a whole novel about how bad

or low this investment will pay off, why keep saying it so many times? we all get yours and the other lopsters view by now.

If you comment more on the new articles without writing a long negative book eveytime im sure alot of people here at DV would enjoy reading your

very intelligent input much more.

We're not asking that you eat crow. The food is bad enough here in lop prison that we'd be happy if you would just slide an occasional pizza under the bars for our enjoyment. I guess we find that the visitors to Lopster Penitentiary are so few that we feel the need to present a more convincing argument than that presented by the gurus. To have any hope of success, our appellate briefs have to be of sufficient length to sway the thousands of judges who hold the keys to our freedom. Unlike the "RV tomorrow" gurus, we have to say a little more than "it will not lop" in order to have any chance to overcome the effective yells of the many cheerleaders who are so readily believed without providing any evidence to support their enthusiasm. :P But thanks once again, for at least calling our input "intelligent."

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Sonny, it seems to me the "GO RV" posts far outnumber the RD posts.

They sure do, and unlike the RD posts, the "GO RV" posts virtually never provide anything but complaints and criticism of the RD position.....NEVER evidence to support their argument. :(

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true, but there are sites on the internet that just call people stupid, and hand out d-bag awards, and i go on there and get hammered for starting debate, no-one debates they just talk stupid shittttt, so you wont get any sympathy from me guys. sorry

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They sure do, and unlike the RD posts, the "GO RV" posts virtually never provide anything but complaints and criticism of the RD position.....NEVER evidence to support their argument. :(

Not sure everyone would agree about the never any evidence statement. your going by the figures iraq is throwing out, how can you be so sure

they arent lieing their butts off half of the time, i mean look at who we are dealing with, they sure wont come out and say we are going to RV and

you will make a good deal of money if you buy our currency, i would think just the opposite.

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Not sure everyone would agree about the never any evidence statement. your going by the figures iraq is throwing out, how can you be so sure

they arent lieing their butts off half of the time, i mean look at who we are dealing with, they sure wont come out and say we are going to RV and

you will make a good deal of money if you buy our currency, i would think just the opposite.

Saying that they could be lying is a very convenient way to deflect the overwhelming evidence, but that would mean that the two different independent auditing agencies, as well as the IMF and others would be lying as well, or at the very least, be unbelievably incompetent. For the M1 and M2 numbers to be a lie, their budget would also have to be a lie, as well as "income" figures, which are very easily confirmed by their daily oil production numbers, since that is essentially their only major source of income, and barely covers their operating expenses. Unlike many countries, Iraq's currency has to be backed 100% by reserves, and the numbers they have presented clearly document it.

More importantly, why would they continue to lie to their own people, day after day for several years now? If they intend to RV, the only logical course of action would be to maintain absolute secrecy, saying nothing until the moment of the event. To do otherwise would be economic suicide. Given that the Dinar RV is probably the worst kept secret in history, isn't it more likely that they're telling the truth, and merely fumbling, as always, over how to get the process approved and initiated? :mellow:

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Ok, I'm confused about something. They have been educating their citizens for a couple of years now about "deleting the three zeros". I don't see how a country could put out this information, tell their citizens, "this is what we are planning to do", and then not follow through, or do something completely different. Talk about confusion and mistrust.

Here's the part that confuses me.....

The GOI has'nt approved anything yet. Why would they have an education campaign for something that isn't a law? Are these news articles really an education campaign, or are they political posturing/rhetoric? Different parties throwing their ideas out about how to bring the dinar inline with the dollar?

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economics suicide? how are people going to go to cbi and buy dinar. lol.

you need to use a little more logic than that leg. your better than that.

deleting the zeros are the small notes, which are needed for a rv.

I don't follow you Sonny. What do you mean "how are people going to go to cbi and buy dinar?" We all know that we can still go to any number of dealers and buy as many BILLIONS of Dinars as we want. If the CBI is announcing a revaluation, common sense says that everyone in the world would be buying up those Dinars in huge numbers. Are you saying that can't happen? Why can't it?

And what do you mean by "deleting the zeros are the small notes?" Deleting the zeros always refers to moving the decimal point to the left - in this case 3 places, so that a 25,000 note becomes 25, a 10,000 becomes 10, a 5,000 becomes 5, etc. Obviously new notes are needed after a redenomination OR a revaluation, and all evidence indicates that they have not yet been designed or printed. So what are you saying there? That statement was very cryptic. Splain it to me so that I can respond.

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Ok, I'm confused about something. They have been educating their citizens for a couple of years now about "deleting the three zeros". I don't see how a country could put out this information, tell their citizens, "this is what we are planning to do", and then not follow through, or do something completely different. Talk about confusion and mistrust.

Here's the part that confuses me.....

The GOI has'nt approved anything yet. Why would they have an education campaign for something that isn't a law? Are these news articles really an education campaign, or are they political posturing/rhetoric? Different parties throwing their ideas out about how to bring the dinar inline with the dollar?

i hope no-one sold based on the opinions of the rd crowd, they will have to eat a huge shitttt sandwich if that happened. just remember that iraq couldnt come out years ago and say they were rv'ing.

Edited by Markinsa
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Ok, I'm confused about something. They have been educating their citizens for a couple of years now about "deleting the three zeros". I don't see how a country could put out this information, tell their citizens, "this is what we are planning to do", and then not follow through, or do something completely different. Talk about confusion and mistrust.

Here's the part that confuses me.....

The GOI has'nt approved anything yet. Why would they have an education campaign for something that isn't a law? Are these news articles really an education campaign, or are they political posturing/rhetoric? Different parties throwing their ideas out about how to bring the dinar inline with the dollar?

Hey WorkerBee. You are correct. The redenomination is the plan of Shabibi and the CBI and has been submitted to the GOI. Until recently, it appeared that Maliki and perhaps the GOI might be opposed to it, but more recent articles seem to imply that the plan has been approved, and is now awaiting design and printing of new currency, distribution, etc. But until something finally happens, it's impossible to know for sure. All we know is what they've been "saying" and teaching for a long period of time, and that should be a strong indicator of intent. Is there logical reason to doubt it? Who knows. :rolleyes:

[/quote

i hope no-one sold based on the opinions of the rd crowd, they will have to eat a huge shitttt sandwich if that happened. just remember that iraq couldnt come out years ago and say they were rv'ing.

So instead of keeping quiet and saying "nothing" as would seem the more logical course of action, they lie their asses off for at least two years repeatedly detailing a classic redenomination, and then suddenly spring the RV, magically creating TRILLIONS of Dollars to add to the world monetary supply, and create major chaos? In what universe does that make any sense at all? :unsure:

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i hope no-one sold based on the opinions of the rd crowd, they will have to eat a huge shitttt sandwich if that happened. just remember that iraq couldnt come out years ago and say they were rv'ing.

Well I agree with you Sonny, they certainly would not advertise an impending RV. Nor do I believe they would have a massive media campaing on a redenomination and then not follow through. So what the heck is up? Maybe a little of both? Like I said I'll gladly eat some crow but I ain't havin' nothin of what you're serving! :lol:

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Hey WorkerBee. You are correct. The redenomination is the plan of Shabibi and the CBI and has been submitted to the GOI. Until recently, it appeared that Maliki and perhaps the GOI might be opposed to it, but more recent articles seem to imply that the plan has been approved, and is now awaiting design and printing of new currency, distribution, etc. But until something finally happens, it's impossible to know for sure. All we know is what they've been "saying" and teaching for a long period of time, and that should be a strong indicator of intent. Is there logical reason to doubt it? Who knows. rolleyes.gif

So instead of keeping quiet and saying "nothing" as would seem the more logical course of action, they lie their asses off for at least two years repeatedly detailing a classic redenomination, and then suddenly spring the RV, magically creating TRILLIONS of Dollars to add to the world monetary supply, and create major chaos? In what universe does that make any sense at all? unsure.gif

:lol:, They aren't magically creating anything. An Iraqi Dinar is an Iraqi Dinar is an Iraqi Dinar. They only thing they are doing is restoring the "Perceived Value" of the Dinar. The number of Dinar isn't going to increase, it is probably going to remain the same, but as they gradually retire the Larger Notes, the physical quantity of Dinar available will decrease. Their M0 will probably decrease and M1 and M2 will probably increase through deposits into the banking system.

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:lol:, They aren't magically creating anything. An Iraqi Dinar is an Iraqi Dinar is an Iraqi Dinar. They only thing they are doing is restoring the "Perceived Value" of the Dinar. The number of Dinar isn't going to increase, it is probably going to remain the same, but as they gradually retire the Larger Notes, the physical quantity of Dinar available will decrease. Their M0 will probably decrease and M1 and M2 will probably increase through deposits into the banking system.

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Maybe he meant adding wealth, not physical denominations? Where would all that wealth come from? What would support it?

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Not sure everyone would agree about the never any evidence statement. your going by the figures iraq is throwing out, how can you be so sure

they arent lieing their butts off half of the time, i mean look at who we are dealing with, they sure wont come out and say we are going to RV and

you will make a good deal of money if you buy our currency, i would think just the opposite.

There are two types of evidence discussed by the go-RV folks.

First is non-dinar news about some event that is speculated to be a prerequisite for an RV. The news (seating of some minister, passing of a law, etc) is perfectly reasonable, but the idea that people know what the prerequisites for a huge RV are, is pure speculation of course and ignores all the evidence that a huge RV just can not happen in the firs place. From a technical, mechanical, or legal perspective an RV, though a very small (i.e. normally) sized one, has occured.

Secondly are the dinar specific articles that are all hailed as telling us that an RV is imminent, while at the same time everyone agrees that an RV of any size is never under any circumstances announced, its just done. These are the postings that really make no sense at all.

As for the idea that the numbers from the CBI are off by several orders of magnitude, I don't see how that is possible. They are consistent with Iraq's observed economy (particularly oil exports) and consistent over the last 8 or 9 years and have been examined by a host of agencies both international and from the US. So I think we can be very confident that they are approximately correct. As long as they are within even within +/- 25% we know a huge overnight RV is out of the question.

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Maybe he meant adding wealth, not physical denominations? Where would all that wealth come from? What would support it?

The Market will/can support it. Wealth comes from the Market, let's say you are a Big Fan of Storage Wars or you're a Yard Sale Fanatic, and you acquire a very old beatup desk for $50. You find a secret compartment in that Desk, inside is a previously unknown book written in William Shakespire's own hand. You resell the desk for $150. The Book sells at auction for $5,000,000. You have just created $5,000,100 out of thin air.

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economics suicide? how are people going to go to cbi and buy dinar. lol.

you need to use a little more logic than that leg. your better than that.

deleting the zeros are the small notes, which are needed for a rv.

Why have there been articles that flat out say 25,000 dinar BECOMES 25 dinar? Why have there been articles that say old dinar will be exchanged for new at a 1000 to 1 ratio? Why do they keep saying that they're going to do what Turkey did?

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:lol:, They aren't magically creating anything. An Iraqi Dinar is an Iraqi Dinar is an Iraqi Dinar. They only thing they are doing is restoring the "Perceived Value" of the Dinar. The number of Dinar isn't going to increase, it is probably going to remain the same, but as they gradually retire the Larger Notes, the physical quantity of Dinar available will decrease. Their M0 will probably decrease and M1 and M2 will probably increase through deposits into the banking system.

The value of a pegged currency is determined by what the backing central bank will pay. If the number of dinars remains roughly the same, and the backing for the dinar remains the same ($60+ B USD), then how does the "perceived value" (whatever that is exactly) go up? Edited by dvforumuser
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The Market will/can support it. Wealth comes from the Market, let's say you are a Big Fan of Storage Wars or you're a Yard Sale Fanatic, and you acquire a very old beatup desk for $50. You find a secret compartment in that Desk, inside is a previously unknown book written in William Shakespire's own hand. You resell the desk for $150. The Book sells at auction for $5,000,000. You have just created $5,000,100 out of thin air.

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No you didn't. Someone gave you 5 million dollars that they already had. Nothing was created out of thin air.

The notion that people would be investing hundreds of billions of dollars in the dinar immediately AFTER it increased by 100,000% is illogical. Not one single person on this site would be buying more dinar at a 1 to 1 rate, so why would you expect millionaire and billionaires to do it? Most millIonaires and billionaires didn't get that way by being stupid, and they didn't get that way by picking up the investment table scraps from the little guy.

No one with more then two brain cells to rub together would be buying dinar if it RVd to 1 dollar. Not banks, not other investors, not the UST, no one. And don't pretend to say they have to, no one was giving Saddam his 3.22 internationally after he spent all his reserves and printed trillions of dinar.

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The Market will/can support it. Wealth comes from the Market, let's say you are a Big Fan of Storage Wars or you're a Yard Sale Fanatic, and you acquire a very old beatup desk for $50. You find a secret compartment in that Desk, inside is a previously unknown book written in William Shakespire's own hand. You resell the desk for $150. The Book sells at auction for $5,000,000. You have just created $5,000,100 out of thin air.

Not at all. The book is a resource that is discovered that is worth the $5M. That is no different than finding a $$5M gold nugget digging in your back yard. Iraq doesn't have $60 T USD of undiscovered Shakespeare or gold to find. So even if you were correct about the "creation" of $5M, it doesn't scale up to support a big RV in Iraq. Edited by dvforumuser
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Why have there been articles that flat out say 25,000 dinar BECOMES 25 dinar? Why have there been articles that say old dinar will be exchanged for new at a 1000 to 1 ratio? Why do they keep saying that they're going to do what Turkey did?

Because if they actually told the truth and told everyone exactly what they were going to do, it would increase the speculation on their currency 1000 Fold. At least the way they are doing it, they are letting their citizens know in general that their currency is going to change. If they wanted to LOP, they should have done it a LOOONG time ago, but an actual RV that has never been done on this scale, takes a little more planning and finese to pull it off. This way when the new notes are issued, the citizens will be much happier because they are actually going to have the same amount of Dinar in their pockets, with much more purchase power.

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Because if they actually told the truth and told everyone exactly what they were going to do, it would increase the speculation on their currency 1000 Fold. At least the way they are doing it, they are letting their citizens know in general that their currency is going to change. If they wanted to LOP, they should have done it a LOOONG time ago, but an actual RV that has never been done on this scale, takes a little more planning and finese to pull it off. This way when the new notes are issued, the citizens will be much happier because they are actually going to have the same amount of Dinar in their pockets, with much more purchase power.

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That doesn't appear to be what sonny is saying. He's saying delete three zeros points directly to an RV (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

Maybe they're saying they're going to RD, because they're planning on RDing.

Your argument that they would have done it a long time ago doesn't hold water, because you can say the exact same thing about HCL, erbil, etc. Iraq is a mess and the fighting between political parties means it takes them forever to do ANYTHING. Why would RDing be any different?

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