Guest views are now limited to 12 pages. If you get an "Error" message, just sign in! If you need to create an account, click here.

Jump to content
  • CRYPTO REWARDS!

    Full endorsement on this opportunity - but it's limited, so get in while you can!

THE $50,000 DOLLAR BAG OF GROCERIES......


Legolas
 Share

Recommended Posts

Let's say there was some such agreement (highly unlikely, but let's go with it). The CB in question destroys the dinar they just paid for in USD, Euros, or whatever, now what? The swift transaction you speak of would have to be to pay the CB that destroyed the dinars for their outlay of whatever other currency was issued in payment for those dinars....the CBI still has to cover those dinars with hard currency. What am I missing?

You are not missing anything. What is missing is all economic principles from that theory. To say that the CBI will revalue and destroy 25,000 worth of wealth when they come in for some unknown "plan" is a little....off. Even if they were destroying 25,000 notes pre RV it doesnt make sense. Why would they destroy their own currency so that they could revalue it? :blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I wish the US would RV so my purchasing power would be improved. Unfortunately it isnt possible. Pegged currencies worth and value are determined by how many are in circulation and how much is backing it. A RD on par with a dollar will give Iraqis the same purchasing power that the dollar has. Not bad.

You wouldn't happen to have a link for how they determine the value of a county's currency do you? I've been looking for that. :P

-

Why would the market think Iraqis currency is worth more than the rest of the planets currency combined?

How many millions of dinar are you going to buy at 1-1?

How much currency is outside of Iraq and how much is inside? Do you have the breakdown?

-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an extremely old article, but it clearly shows the disdain held for currency speculators.

Published: May 16, 1993

"Baghdad permitted Iraqis to exchange the 25-dinar notes for the new currency, but they closed the borders for six days to keep speculators outside the country. The border was reopened Tuesday, after the Monday deadline to turn in the old notes passed. Baghdad Imposes Exit Tax

In an effort to cut down on smuggling, Baghdad also imposed a stiff exit tax of 15,000 dinars, the equivalent of $250 on the black market and $48,000 at the official exchange rate. The tax has slowed cross-border traffic from Iraq to a trickle.

"Iraqi officials say they have no intention of compensating anyone else, even the Jordanian businessmen they traded with.

It was their mistake to speculate in Iraqi currency," Shawki Kubaisi, the chairman of the Iraqi Trade Bank, said in Amman. "This is a matter of our national sovereignty, taken to improve our economy."

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/16/world/fortunes-in-iraqi-bills-gone-overnight.html

Good Luck with the RV.....can you honestly believe they intend to make a bunch of infidels rich?

Edited by MrFnHappy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's say there was some such agreement (highly unlikely, but let's go with it). The CB in question destroys the dinar they just paid for in USD, Euros, or whatever, now what? The swift transaction you speak of would have to be to pay the CB that destroyed the dinars for their outlay of whatever other currency was issued in payment for those dinars....the CBI still has to cover those dinars with hard currency. What am I missing?

To be honest, I'm not sure how they exchange currency, but if they want to retire the Large Notes, they will issue an equivalent amount of new notes to replace them. If these banks have the latest De La Rue machines these machines can photocopy and record each note that is scanned through the system. I would imagine they could also provide a detailed list of the notes scanned with serial numbers of the notes that are destroyed.

-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do believe that Iraq is a unique and special situation, one that the U.S. helped create in its desire for cheap oil and a somewhat functional democratic society (as close as they can get) in a very contentious part of the world. Plus, I cannot get past the fact that Bush said the war would pay for itself. Finally, I am pasting some historical info on the dinar below, but it just seems to me that if, in 4 years, a country's currency can devalue so dramatically, it can revalue as well. ]

[snip]

Due to sanctions placed on Iraq by the United States and the international community and excessive government printing of the new notes issue, the dinar devalued quickly, and in late 1995, US$1 was valued at 3,000 dinars.

So from the late 80s into the mid 90's Saddam printed 10 or 20 Trillion dinars which caused its value to go down by 100x. And its continued to an M2 of some 62T. So if over 4 years they can bring the size of the money supply back down to few 10s of billions, then indeed the value per dinar WILL go back up. And that is exactly what an RD does and in less than 4 years.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, I'm not sure how they exchange currency, but if they want to retire the Large Notes, they will issue an equivalent amount of new notes to replace them. If these banks have the latest De La Rue machines these machines can photocopy and record each note that is scanned through the system. I would imagine they could also provide a detailed list of the notes scanned with serial numbers of the notes that are destroyed.

-

So they are going to give 1000 new 25 notes for each 25,000 note. OK good. I guess they will just need to go ahead and print trillions of lower denoms so that everyone can exchange.

Do I really need to show a link on how pegged currency regimes work? OK OK let me do so research for you. I will be back.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So from the late 80s into the mid 90's Saddam printed 10 or 20 Trillion dinars which caused its value to go down by 100x. And its continued to an M2 of some 62T. So if over 4 years they can bring the size of the money supply back down to few 10s of billions, then indeed the value per dinar WILL go back up. And that is exactly what an RD does and in less than 4 years.

Forgive my correcting you, but Iraq's M2 last I looked, was 72.32 TRILLION IQD.

Welcome to the world of fractional banking.....

Edited by MrFnHappy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I missed the "state" part. I just naturally assumed, that if you thought it was hyperinflated, that hyperinflation was the cause. But actually, that isn't the situation Iraq is in, is it? Their currency started out Hyperinflated from the start and has gradually increased in value. Going back through your posts, you have stated that if Iraq RV's it will cause Hyperinflation? If the prices of their goods and services remained pegged to the US Dollar, then Iraq should experience an increase in Dinar Value and not a decrease correct?

The IQD IS in a hyperinflated state, i.e. is suffering from the result of PAST hyperinflation. Its value can go up or down by some amount due to the normal effects of economic factors (GDP, money supply, oil prices, etc). But to undo the main effects of hyperinflation they have to reduce the money supply size (not value) by 1000x, and an RD does just that.

Forgive my correcting you, but Iraq's M2 last I looked, was 72.32 TRILLION IQD

Thanks, I thought it was "only" 62T. Yikes! Edited by dvforumuser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, I'm not sure how they exchange currency, but if they want to retire the Large Notes, they will issue an equivalent amount of new notes to replace them. If these banks have the latest De La Rue machines these machines can photocopy and record each note that is scanned through the system. I would imagine they could also provide a detailed list of the notes scanned with serial numbers of the notes that are destroyed.

-

I think this is where we diverge on our thinking.. I believe they will issue new denominations equivalent in value but not equivalent in denominations/physical paper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You wouldn't happen to have a link for how they determine the value of a county's currency do you? I've been looking for that. :P

-

How much currency is outside of Iraq and how much is inside? Do you have the breakdown?

-

http://www.bundesbank.de/download/volkswirtschaft/mba/2002/200203_en_dmark.pdf

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/issues2/

http://www.forexfraud.com/forex-articles/pegged-currencies.html

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/08/pegged-vs-floating-currencies.asp#axzz1qBSn2pXz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would the market think Iraqis currency is worth more than the rest of the planets currency combined?

Thats it, if we can descend back into the real world for a second here, the market is NOT going to think that Iraqs currency is worth more than the entire worlds.

The market will look at a country (Iraq) which could turn into Afghanistan in under a month. Cant imagine too many traders want much of that agency other than a quick cut and burn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a good one. Where would Iraq fall in these categories?

http://forexnewsresource.com/currencies/how-the-value-of-currency-is-determined/

Exactly.

There is so much more to the equation than simply saying they have so much oil they have to be the richest nation on earth.

On a side note if you as part of 'the Elite' knew that alternative fuel technologies were about to go mainstream just around the corner due to a breakthrough or a release they couldn't prevent then Iraq and all its oil is about as valuable as a nation full of sand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly.

There is so much more to the equation than simply saying they have so much oil they have to be the richest nation on earth.

On a side note if you as part of 'the Elite' knew that alternative fuel technologies were about to go mainstream just around the corner due to a breakthrough or a release they couldn't prevent then Iraq and all its oil is about as valuable as a nation full of sand.

Haha.... Iraq had better hope there are no alternatives. They cant eat sand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a good one. Where would Iraq fall in these categories?

http://forexnewsresource.com/currencies/how-the-value-of-currency-is-determined/

Exactly.

There is so much more to the equation than simply saying they have so much oil they have to be the richest nation on earth.

On a side note if you as part of 'the Elite' knew that alternative fuel technologies were about to go mainstream just around the corner due to a breakthrough or a release they couldn't prevent then Iraq and all its oil is about as valuable as a nation full of sand.

Its blindingly obvious to almost anyone with a grasp of economics and I hate to say it but intelligence, that a straight up RV is about as likely as getting hit by the same bus on three separate occasions in the same day.

There is so much info out there that is in favor of anything but an RV it leaves a straight up RV to be only in the fantasy realm.

Anythings possible sure but highly unlikely.

This investment has attracted a lot of people I speculate wouldn't usually be investors.

Their lack of understanding on many issues is readily apparent in the rumor section where the fantasy is alive and well.

Theres going to be some massive heartbreak for dinar speculators this year depending on your hopes you had for it.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet another civil and informative thread with great participation. If only the people who really need to be reading it were actually engaged, instead of spending their time in the Rumor Fantasyland. Dinarck has an amazing and seemingly unending supply of patience and willingness to explain the same points over and over again, always providing proof for his positions. Those reading this should ask themselves how often you've seen a guru or pumper do the same things. The truly sad thing is that they rarely HAVE to because so many are willing to accept their BS, and so few are anxious to challenge it.

It's gratifying to see new people joining the fray and engaging in intelligent discussion. It's unfortunate that it's confined to a section that most people either refuse or are hesitant to visit, but such is life. The old saying that "you can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink" is particularly applicable here. Keep up the great work gang. It appears that at least SOME people are beginning to understand both the simplicities, as well as the complexities of this adventure. Keeping it simple and easy to understand will benefit the largest number of people. Hopefully, readers will take with them at least SOME of what's contained here in the lop prison to other sections and even to other sites. Without a doubt, it's difficult to break through a barrier which has been reinforced by non-stop BS over a period of several years, but even the most ardent believer should eventually be able to be convinced by irrefutable evidence. All we can do is try. ;)

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure y'all saw this article....it is about as clear as it gets...it's funny how this one is considered "smoke" and the other delete the zeros is considered an RV...when they both are clearly discussing the exact same thing...I'm not sure if people are trying to mislead others or are really that confused....

A few weeks ago, a source at the Iraqi Central Bank announced the government’s plan to [re-denominate] the [iraqi] currency by cutting three zero from all notes, effectively dividing these notes by 1000. 1000 dinar notes would be changed to one dinar notes and 5000 [old dinars] would equal five new dinars.

The new currency will be introduced in 2012. The process will take up to two years, at the end of which the old currency will ultimately be void. However, banks will continue to accept [the old notes] for another 10 years - for exchange against new notes,.

http://www.al-monito....iraqi-and.html

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111414-10-years-to-cash-out-old-iqd-notes/#ixzz1qEG6CysW

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure y'all saw this article....it is about as clear as it gets...it's funny how this one is considered "smoke" and the other delete the zeros is considered an RV...when they both are clearly discussing the exact same thing...I'm not sure if people are trying to mislead others or are really that confused....

A few weeks ago, a source at the Iraqi Central Bank announced the government’s plan to [re-denominate] the [iraqi] currency by cutting three zero from all notes, effectively dividing these notes by 1000. 1000 dinar notes would be changed to one dinar notes and 5000 [old dinars] would equal five new dinars.

The new currency will be introduced in 2012. The process will take up to two years, at the end of which the old currency will ultimately be void. However, banks will continue to accept [the old notes] for another 10 years - for exchange against new notes,.

http://www.al-monito....iraqi-and.html

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111414-10-years-to-cash-out-old-iqd-notes/#ixzz1qEG6CysW

i am for surely selling now. thanks jmw your the smartest, most bestest, rd'er of them all

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure y'all saw this article....it is about as clear as it gets...it's funny how this one is considered "smoke" and the other delete the zeros is considered an RV...when they both are clearly discussing the exact same thing...I'm not sure if people are trying to mislead others or are really that confused....

A few weeks ago, a source at the Iraqi Central Bank announced the government’s plan to [re-denominate] the [iraqi] currency by cutting three zero from all notes, effectively dividing these notes by 1000. 1000 dinar notes would be changed to one dinar notes and 5000 [old dinars] would equal five new dinars.

The new currency will be introduced in 2012. The process will take up to two years, at the end of which the old currency will ultimately be void. However, banks will continue to accept [the old notes] for another 10 years - for exchange against new notes,.

http://www.al-monito....iraqi-and.html

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111414-10-years-to-cash-out-old-iqd-notes/#ixzz1qEG6CysW

Yep. As stated in another thread, the articles are gradually becoming more clear in their meaning - not that there was really ever any doubt. The "RV tomorrow" crowd simply used the confusion created by translation issues to attempt to spin the articles in a positive slant. The truth is that they've always said the same thing.

Now that the translations are more legible, the NEW line from the believers is that it's all lies - a plan created to chase away the speculators. That line is incredibly laughable, as Iraq continues to sell Dinars by the billions every week, and the dealers, pumpers, and site owners continue to grow more wealthy.

You would THINK that these believers would be smart enough to realize that if Iraq was in fact attempting to deter speculators with these years of RD articles, that they would have FIRST stopped the never-ending supply of Dinars from reaching those speculators, or at the very least, attempted to. But in fact, the reverse is true. The supply and number of dealers has increased, rather than decreased. Unfortunately, it's much easier and more comforting to believe that they're lying, and the hilarious "smoke and mirrors" line aids in maintaining the delusion. :rolleyes:

Edited by Legolas
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, it doesnt get much clearer than that jmw. I wish we could get past the confusion and articles like this should help with that. I think anyone with any sense what so ever knows that they are threatening a redenomination. I think it is time to come to terms with it and begin discussion on what we may see if it goes forward. I have to thank Legolas for beggining this thread so that this important topic can be logically debated. I just wish others would open their minds to what is going on and contribute to the discussion. Although we are isolated to this section I do not see how that hinders the importance of the topic at hand. Again this WILL determine how much money we will be able to recover if the RD unfolds before our eyes. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

Edited by dinarck
  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, it doesnt get much clearer than that jmw. I wish we could get past the confusion and articles like this should help with that. I think anyone with any sense what so ever knows that they are threatening a redenomination. I think it is time to come to terms with it and begin discussion on what we may see if it goes forward. I have to thank Legolas for beggining this thread so that this important topic can be logically debated. I just wish others would open their minds to what is going on and contribute to the discussion. Although we are isolated to this section I do not see how that hinders the importance of the topic at hand. Again this WILL determine how much money we will be able to recover if the RD unfolds before our eyes. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

dinarck, you are the rd crusader. lol

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.