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THE $50,000 DOLLAR BAG OF GROCERIES......


Legolas
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"Next you talk about people around the world investing in Iraq which is true. What does this have to do with their hyperinflated currency?" What has hyperinflation got to do with my statement at that point in my post? I was already talking infrastructure of banking, oil export efficiency, import vs. export merchendise...and about the potential for an RV (1:1 as an example) to instantly impact poverty and promote entrepreneurship. I did not in any way suggest some CRAZY RV amount or say it would equal Kuwait. I was using Kuwait as an example by population and production of oil specifically as a gauge for my coment. Also, I never suggested infrastructure was in place enough for free market to pollute the economy with hyperinflation so quickly. You are again...placing such a huge "wolf! wolf!" thought process here that I see as premature. PLEASE do not take that as insulting...I'm doing my best not to sound like some hick from the woods (which I'm not far from being) and I may miss use the larger words. ha ha. However, hyperinflation we see in established infrastructures will in no way be equal to what we might expect from Iraq over several years.

An overnight RV to 1 will not help poverty in Iraq. People in Iraq who are in poverty dont have any dinar. How will they benefit from a RV? Because millions of other Iraqis will become loaded? I doubt it. The poverished will only become peasants. We can not even think in terms of an overnight increase of 1000 times on any currency any time because it simply isnt possible. How would it promote entreprenuership? If you lived in Iraq and became a multimillionare would you open a business while bombs are going off around you and people are being shot everywhere? I wouldnt. I would move to the Bahamas or anywhere safer for that matter. We have already discussed Iraqs delicate balance to try not to slip back into hyperinflation. Dont worry about your tone towards me in your post. It is obvious you are NOT some hick from the back woods but a very intelligent individual. Post towards me however you feel comfortable. My manners arent always appealing to some but my manners are what they are.

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Jmw, they get adjusted accordingly. That was tough.

How? For prices and salaries i.e. where some private entity has full control they can be reduced by 1000x if there was a 1000x RV. But loans, bills, etc are legally binding contracts. The government has no authority to adjust them. So how does this happen?
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"Next is something about imports but I kind of fail to follow you. I will say that Iraq would benefit from a higher exchange rate to make imports cheaper but only after a RD because a 1000 times overnight increase isnt possible." Ok...I think I kind of covered this above. I was using wheat/grain/produce imports primarily as a way to show the dependency Iraq has on these things currently. However, I took the time to clearly show that Iraq is returning to it's strong and self sustaining days of the agriculture and produce market. My more precise use of this was to indicate that expendatures that paid the market would not be budgeted at such a cost in the future. The implication was that the cost of some imports would redirect to spending on an internal budget that would promote and sustain agricultural workers being paid for their product that the Kurdistan region is already trying to redevelope.

I agree that agriculture is exciting and a vital role in Iraqs development. Unfortunately it doesnt mean they can RV to 1 overnight. I will leave it at that but yeah it will help sustain Iraqs growth over the long haul and become a major part of their future GDP.

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OMG, my eyes are bloodshot, amigo. LOL

I'll just follow up with this. Initially, I commented on facts that weren't correct as being "considerations" for the RD then slow RV model. I still don't see where Iraq is the 5th poorest nation in the world, nor do I see any facts that credit thinking "chaos, riots, and murders" will ensue after a substantial RV.

That said, I'll take a fast crack a seeing if I follow you. You said...

Here you are kind of backwards on your rational. The US is MUCH less likely to experience hyperinflation due to their massive GDP and the fact that they are a reserve currency with a high demand around the globe. Iraq has a currency already in a hyperinflated state and it is all they can do to keep it stable. I mean they have to flood their own market with USD just to keep the value of their currency from going into the crapper."

I agree that I might be backwards...:P but...

It's because I'm not sure we see them flooding their market with USD. CBI reserves are showing as being held at 60B. Haven't we seen scores of comments saying the USD was flying out to other countries that are sanctioned currently? If that is the case and Iraq really does need all that USD on its streets...shouldn't we have seen a huge drop in CBI reserves...and I do mean a HUGE spike in the inflation rate already? Currently: Core inflation (YoY): Feb 2012 6.30% Inflation (YoY): Feb 2012 5.73% CBI says differently and it's actually gone down compared to prior sanctions on Iran and USD flying across the border. Doesn't seem to be the USD in circulation affecting inflation so drastically. I do recall that last year around this time, it was more influenced by Ramadon and housing and such...You'd think a few weeks of mass migration of USD would have effected at least one month of numbers drastically, wouldn't you?

I'd also like to note that compared in size...what makes the USD so strong when shadowed by the deficite? How much do WE have in circulation outside our own borders compared to inside? If we're so strong why are we dropping in rating while Iraq is expected to grow? If you can tell beyond speculation that Iraq has more than 60% of it's dinar in circulation...i might worry. Then again, I might think that 25% of that 60 is held by speculators waiting to cash in...ha!

I dunno...maybe I am backwards. But I still think that...pegged to the USD...means holding the currency up until Iraq has met all IMF requirements for this following membership I posted about (and sadly got very little attention). Iraq is not looking to just rebuild itself...it is working to become a major world player...and doing so by the numbers.

HCL Acceptance of Iraq could validate all global support. Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz1piUKPrO6

I do think that the world banks will take direction from the IMF and others like the UN. Yes...I do think that Iraq potential is discredited only by those who are too obstinant to realize that Iraq is not going to stop until they have made themselves a real world player. You say the banks are not accepting that Iraq is a potential big player...I say they just have not been informed that they are yet. Banks do answer to a higher power. They also react to sudden market potentials that open up...like currency that has the blessing of the IMF...the UN...and the Arab leaders, China, Korea...the U.S. of A. . Do you think Iraq falls into the normal RD scenario? No, they do not, my friend. Nor will the banks look at Iraq as the normal RV scenario and they most certainly will accept a new rate if IMF gives approval. Do you think the banks will decide if China revalues by its own devices? No...they wait for a global concensus, dinark. I promise you, when the CBI changes something...it is orchestrated with direction from more than Shabs. He is following a very careful plan. The above link only shows a portion of setting that plan up legally so that banks cannot (other countries cannot) later contest it. Why do you think they are being so transparent with their budget? The reveiw of this is up VERY soon and I hold that it is a huge approval.

So....you also noted...

Any country that has 60 trillions units of currency in existence is vulnerable to the possibility of massive future hyperinflation if they dont play their cards right. A card they do not posses is a 100,000% overnight RV because that card doesnt exsist. Only in dinar land on on this wonderful invention we call the internet.

Maybe you are right...but then, I have yet to see that 60t validated yet. I've seen it thrown around several times...but the amount in circulation is always questioned. You holding out on info you need to share? Or are you just saying most of that is not in CBI possession? In any case...once CBI has crossed every T and dotted every I as in the example I gave above...they will be closer to kicking the USD crutch out from under the arm of CBI and the currency Revaluation being first....will make the RD a much easier and usefull process. After all...if they are so very fragile...why do they bother with the RD at all. You suggest with your lack of support in their potential...that is is just throwing good money after bad anyway.

I'm just saying my friend. I have much more belief that Iraq is going to be successful and very soon. I do not see them taking such caution and spend so much money in preparations for something as common as an RD.

Ok...I am D U N...done.......I only wanted to hear where Legolas got the "Iraq is 5th poorest nation" info from when I made my first comment. Heck, never did get an answer. I honestly didn't come prepared to debate with such length over everything dinar. I just wanted to point out that nothing rational indicates that Iraq would go nuts in turmoil and murdering rampages in the poor sectors' grocery stores because of an RV.

:(

You, sir, are a trooper for not being rude with me and for following so patiently with me, too. :tiphat:

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"Next you state that a significant RV would not cause chaos or hyperinflation but I think we have shown reasonably that it would. If you disagree here then please state why so we can discuss." First off...no, I do not think it will cause chaos but then, I'm not suggesting a $12 dolloar RV either. Secondly...my original reply to the post was more of an "I asked you first" mentality. I'm still looking for any good reason that you can back up that implies that chaos will ensure, riots will break out, murders will take place...as made mention in the opening of this thread. So again, politely, I asked you first, and I'm still waiting. But to be fair and answer your request for me to "state why" , I will simply suggest this...no where in the history that I can recall have I witnessed news that a country's RV of it's currency caused utter chaos and riots and killings. The ball is back in your court on that one. I'd love to see the facts but would hate to know they proved me wrong at someone elses injury.

Lets leave the Okie $12 nonsense at the door. We are both smart enough to know that he is WACK!!!!! Even a 10 cent overnight RV would create chaos. A 10,000 dinar note would suddeny be worth 1000 USD. This is more money than many Iraqis have ever seen in their lives and how would you think the terrorist groups in Iraq would feel about a cash based society that suddely was flooded with cash now worth a fortune. I will give you a hint. They would go on a killing spree breaking down doors and mowing down anyone suspected of holding a 25,000 note worth 23 USD the day before and 2,300 USD now. If the police tried to stop them they would mow them down and pick their pockets. How about all the markets that have stacks of dinar sitting around. Again we will leave the "all the dinar has been removed" nonsense at the door. How will these shops protect their stacks or why would they? They are now suddenly rich beyond their wildest dreams. They would either lock their doors or close up shop and split the scene. Especially with gunmen around every corner. Then we come back again to the change issue. There is no way to make change for all those 000 notes after a huge RV. It isnt possible in a cash based country. Now the one I have been waiting for. Why didnt it create chaos in other countries that RVed? That answer is simple. The largest RV in history was around 35%. Not much to get chaotic about wouldnt you agree? Here we are talking about a 100,000% RV. Ask yourself why it has never been done.

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"Next you attempt to address the change issue but that doesnt really hold much water. Daily business would not be possible. Period." First I would like to admit...I attempted, HA HA HA...and freely admit that any numbers other than 0 and 1 confuse the hell out of me especially when offered in fractional and sometimes decimal form. HOW EVA!! I have to ask why you said daily business would not be possible? Haven't we all seen where two currencies coexist? If there is an RD as was suggested...I'm simply assuming (as clearly stated in my earlier comments) that the lower Denoms will be sent to out lying cities provences for easily recoverable exchanges and that those with enough money/social standing would easily afford a trip to the big city to exchange their big wads. Almost, I implied persons would get an offer for (one time maybe as an after thought to my statement?) exchange of very small amounts of current dinar bills. Iraq has addressed a possiblility of using phones to manage (now more beneficial) bank accounts and transactions for rural Iraq. Even the poor are not to destitute that they have no phones it would seem. period

Here we get to talk about the change issue again which is great. Yes the two currencies will coexsist but if you are only getting change in old dinar then the new dinar is pretty pointless. Agree. Sooner or later that 25,000 note will have to be broken down into smaller denoms. The amount of bills this would require is absolutely staggering. Even if you talk about them going to currency exchanges we are talking about thousands of bills for any Iraqi with a job. Guess where our masked gunmen will be waiting. Yep. Prime targets. So the obvios solution would be electronic accounts right? These people lived through Sadam and they dont trust banks or the GOV. So they are going to put their new found millions into their cell phones? Hahaha... A lot of Iraq doesnt even have working electricity and there will be cell phone millionares walking around? No this isnt going to occur. They have said many time they will reduce the amount of bills in circulation not increase them 100 thousand times over.

I wont copy and paste your last point being it is really long but basically you talk about why they havent RDed yet. All I can say is I dont know and I still hope they dont. If they dont this doesnt mean they can have a massive overnight RV though. It would simply mean that the value of the dinar would slowly go up over a long period of time as there economy, GDP and so on improves. These things take time and so does currency appreciation. I hope to see the value around .01 in 15 to 20 years if they dont RD first. Who knows 30 years we could be around a buck. Then then question comes up when do they bring in smaller denoms? What point of the appreciation would they need them? Anyway I see you have responded to my response earlier and I will attempt to keep the discussion going if possible. Yawn.

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They would go on a killing spree breaking down doors and mowing down anyone suspected of holding a 25,000 note worth 23 USD the day before and 2,300 USD now.

Just enough time to reply to your last comment amigo...about that terrorist stuff...

I think the articles in the news we saw last week indicates that education for the SERIOUS need to use a bank account is validated by your very realistic prediction. There has been a push for citizend to open accounts for nearly a year now. Don't think for a second that citizens will not open one if they suddenly have something so valuable stashed under their burka.

I do NOT think it would be so wide spread as you suggests, though. I don't understand why everyone still thinks Iraq is so helpless. If that were true...the terrorists would already be taking over Baghdad and stealing all that gold they recently announced finding in the area.

Also about that "Then we come back again to the change issue. There is no way to make change for all those 000 notes after a huge RV. It isnt possible in a cash based country. Now the one I have been waiting for."

The original posting suggested there were so many poor people that most would not even have a 25k note to hold. Again, my point woud be that bank accounts would open faster than you could shoot a bullet. The populace has been warned and is continuing to be educated. Also again...it is NOT as bad as you suggest.

I still see nothing that says an RV will cause such horrible things in Iraq.

Lastly (Im sooo tired) "Yes the two currencies will coexsist but if you are only getting change in old dinar then the new dinar is pretty pointless."

I tried to make it clear that I thought they would issue change using the new dinar for any purchases using old notes. How difficult is it for shop owners to have some available to use over a period of time until all old are traded/spent/deposited?

LOL, ok, I giiiive....I giiiiive! SQUEEEEEEEL!! lol dinark, ty and I'll try to follow up if I have time during classes this week. B)

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OMG, my eyes are bloodshot, amigo. LOL

I'll just follow up with this. Initially, I commented on facts that weren't correct as being "considerations" for the RD then slow RV model. I still don't see where Iraq is the 5th poorest nation in the world, nor do I see any facts that credit thinking "chaos, riots, and murders" will ensue after a substantial RV.

That said, I'll take a fast crack a seeing if I follow you. You said...

Here you are kind of backwards on your rational. The US is MUCH less likely to experience hyperinflation due to their massive GDP and the fact that they are a reserve currency with a high demand around the globe. Iraq has a currency already in a hyperinflated state and it is all they can do to keep it stable. I mean they have to flood their own market with USD just to keep the value of their currency from going into the crapper."

I agree that I might be backwards...:P but...

It's because I'm not sure we see them flooding their market with USD. CBI reserves are showing as being held at 60B. Haven't we seen scores of comments saying the USD was flying out to other countries that are sanctioned currently? If that is the case and Iraq really does need all that USD on its streets...shouldn't we have seen a huge drop in CBI reserves...and I do mean a HUGE spike in the inflation rate already? Currently: Core inflation (YoY): Feb 2012 6.30% Inflation (YoY): Feb 2012 5.73% CBI says differently and it's actually gone down compared to prior sanctions on Iran and USD flying across the border. Doesn't seem to be the USD in circulation affecting inflation so drastically. I do recall that last year around this time, it was more influenced by Ramadon and housing and such...You'd think a few weeks of mass migration of USD would have effected at least one month of numbers drastically, wouldn't you?

I'd also like to note that compared in size...what makes the USD so strong when shadowed by the deficite? How much do WE have in circulation outside our own borders compared to inside? If we're so strong why are we dropping in rating while Iraq is expected to grow? If you can tell beyond speculation that Iraq has more than 60% of it's dinar in circulation...i might worry. Then again, I might think that 25% of that 60 is held by speculators waiting to cash in...ha!

I dunno...maybe I am backwards. But I still think that...pegged to the USD...means holding the currency up until Iraq has met all IMF requirements for this following membership I posted about (and sadly got very little attention). Iraq is not looking to just rebuild itself...it is working to become a major world player...and doing so by the numbers.

HCL Acceptance of Iraq could validate all global support. Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz1piUKPrO6

I do think that the world banks will take direction from the IMF and others like the UN. Yes...I do think that Iraq potential is discredited only by those who are too obstinant to realize that Iraq is not going to stop until they have made themselves a real world player. You say the banks are not accepting that Iraq is a potential big player...I say they just have not been informed that they are yet. Banks do answer to a higher power. They also react to sudden market potentials that open up...like currency that has the blessing of the IMF...the UN...and the Arab leaders, China, Korea...the U.S. of A. . Do you think Iraq falls into the normal RD scenario? No, they do not, my friend. Nor will the banks look at Iraq as the normal RV scenario and they most certainly will accept a new rate if IMF gives approval. Do you think the banks will decide if China revalues by its own devices? No...they wait for a global concensus, dinark. I promise you, when the CBI changes something...it is orchestrated with direction from more than Shabs. He is following a very careful plan. The above link only shows a portion of setting that plan up legally so that banks cannot (other countries cannot) later contest it. Why do you think they are being so transparent with their budget? The reveiw of this is up VERY soon and I hold that it is a huge approval.

So....you also noted...

Any country that has 60 trillions units of currency in existence is vulnerable to the possibility of massive future hyperinflation if they dont play their cards right. A card they do not posses is a 100,000% overnight RV because that card doesnt exsist. Only in dinar land on on this wonderful invention we call the internet.

Maybe you are right...but then, I have yet to see that 60t validated yet. I've seen it thrown around several times...but the amount in circulation is always questioned. You holding out on info you need to share? Or are you just saying most of that is not in CBI possession? In any case...once CBI has crossed every T and dotted every I as in the example I gave above...they will be closer to kicking the USD crutch out from under the arm of CBI and the currency Revaluation being first....will make the RD a much easier and usefull process. After all...if they are so very fragile...why do they bother with the RD at all. You suggest with your lack of support in their potential...that is is just throwing good money after bad anyway.

I'm just saying my friend. I have much more belief that Iraq is going to be successful and very soon. I do not see them taking such caution and spend so much money in preparations for something as common as an RD.

Ok...I am D U N...done.......I only wanted to hear where Legolas got the "Iraq is 5th poorest nation" info from when I made my first comment. Heck, never did get an answer. I honestly didn't come prepared to debate with such length over everything dinar. I just wanted to point out that nothing rational indicates that Iraq would go nuts in turmoil and murdering rampages in the poor sectors' grocery stores because of an RV.

:(

You, sir, are a trooper for not being rude with me and for following so patiently with me, too. :tiphat:

Sorry for quoting the long post but need to read what I am replying to.

Yeah the USD that they are selling at auction isnt coming from their foriegn reserves. Those are a mix of currencies including USD. The USD in the market place is likely recycled from daily business. The auctions are selling upwards of 200 million a day. This massive increase occured when the whole Iran issue started and USD was slipping across borders effectively lowering the actual value of the dinar by raising the demand for USD. Trust me the US loves these kind of games. The more demand for the USD in whatever the country the more stable the USD becomes.

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Whoops. Dont know what happened there. Posted on accident and it wouldnt let me edit all this. Luckily I copied before attempting to submitt the modified post. Anyway no we wouldnt see a rise in inflation because of the USD on the streets of Iraq. Currenctly 60 billion in reserves is backing 60 trillion in circulation. If the CBI wants to print more for whatever, they need to match the increase in their reserves or that is when inflation could become an issue. USD on the streets of Iraq probably allows them to print less dinar so it could be a good thing for them now. Post RD would be a different story. I would think they would want the new dinar to be prevelant.

Like I have said before, the USD is a different aninmal. The reason I believe we were downgraded was shotty economic practices. Sure we probably have too much USD in circulation but as long as demand is high then inflation is in check and as long as USD is needed to buy oil then demand will remain high. The amount in circulation isnt really my concern for the USD it is our deficite like you already pointed out. Who knows how it will turn out but if you believe the conspiracy groups then the USD in trying to be tanked by the powers that be but I dont know about that. This is the first time in history that our debt has exceeded our GDP though. Does any of this mean Iraq can RV to 1? No.

To keep the rest short, the IMF has never said anything other than that it will help Iraq RD. That is a fact. There is no conspiracy between the UN or BIS or IMF to help Iraq RV. Its all nonsense.

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Try this: A coke costs $1.00 US or 1166 Dinar. You pay for it with a 5000 Dinar note and get 3834 Dinar in change.You can still buy 3 more cokes. Now take the 3 "0"s away. The coke still costs $1.00 US and still 1166 Dinar. So now you give him a "New" 5 Dinar and you gets 3.86 Dinar in change. No more cokes.

The coke costs 1166 IQD or 1.166 NID (new-iraqi-dinars). So you pay with a 5000 iQD note and get 4 cokes and 336 IQD in change. Or you pay for it with a 5 NID note and get get 4 cokes and 0.336 NID (336 NID fils) in change. Both are the same. Buying 1 coke with a 5 NID note returns (as you say) 3.86 NID (not IQD) in change, worth 3 more cokes and 336 NID fils.

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Electronic currency is the same as physical...if it RV's it RV's all of it...if it RD's it RD's all of it...plus the CBI states their money outside of banks is 28 Trillion...see line 79 here:

http://cbi.iq/docume...20financial.xls

So where's the cash??????

Seriously, it's something that's always confused me. They say 28 trillion outside of banks, but they are the fifth poorest people on the planet. I think Legolas stated it as saying they live payday to payday. (Apologies for paraphrasing). The average Iraqi doesn't have a lot of cash laying around. The banks only have about 3 trillion local currency (according to 2010 annual report), so where's the cash? Is it spread out over the world of dinar investors?

I only ask because it seems like the only hope we have left is that a truck load of the hard currency has been destroyed through natural wear and tear and hasn't been turned in to banks for redemption for new cash. I recall reading an article a while back about vendors, petrol stations etc not accepting torn currency, and the banks weren't accepting them either. As far as I can tell, we can only hope that Iraqis have been burning trillions of dinars to keep themselves warm at night.

So, who's got the cash??

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So where's the cash??????

Seriously, it's something that's always confused me. They say 28 trillion outside of banks, but they are the fifth poorest people on the planet. I think Legolas stated it as saying they live payday to payday. (Apologies for paraphrasing). The average Iraqi doesn't have a lot of cash laying around. The banks only have about 3 trillion local currency (according to 2010 annual report), so where's the cash? Is it spread out over the world of dinar investors?

I only ask because it seems like the only hope we have left is that a truck load of the hard currency has been destroyed through natural wear and tear and hasn't been turned in to banks for redemption for new cash. I recall reading an article a while back about vendors, petrol stations etc not accepting torn currency, and the banks weren't accepting them either. As far as I can tell, we can only hope that Iraqis have been burning trillions of dinars to keep themselves warm at night.

So, who's got the cash??

First, Dinarck has done a fantastic job in addressing EVERY issue thrown at him in this thread, and I think he's absolutely correct in every reply, so there's no point in going thru every one of them again and beating this thing to a pulp. Several others have eloquently reinforced what's been stated. What we're saying here either makes sense to you, or it doesn't. I'm SO incredibly tired of the "smoke and mirrors" line, and the belief that the CBI is "simply LYING to us. The truth is that their financial statements have been monitored VERY closely for a very long time now by "several" different agencies and with very good reason. YES, numbers can always be off slightly, and no audit can be perfect. But they can't be off by much, and CERTAINLY not by TRILLIONS. It's just not possible, even with the kind of wishful thinking seen daily on Dinar forums.

In all seriousness, I think the number of IQD speculators has been drastically underestimated, and the amount of IQD "held" by each of those speculators is ALSO grossly underestimated. Keep in mind that it only takes ONE Million Millions to equal ONE TRILLION. After 8 years of this ride, does anyone really believe that there aren't AT LEAST one million Dinar speculators in the U.S. alone? That would be less than 1/3 of ONE PERCENT of the population. I suspect that it's much higher, but even at that minimal number, it's easy to see where TRILLIONS of Dinars are likely held by speculators. I used to believe that the average number of IQD held by speculators was probably 1-2 million, but having watched this for a while now, I think the averages are probably MUCH higher. MANY people now hold more than 10 million IQD each. Keep in mind that even with only ONE MILLION speculators, EACH MILLION held creates another TRILLION, so how hard is it to see how those trillions in circulation could possibly exist? But even none of THIS really matters, Again, it's all in the numbers, and if there are trillions in circulation, there can be NO RV. It's really very simple, and everyone wants to make it very complicated. The numbers alone are very difficult for most people to understand, but it's the simplest way to look at the overall issue.

Which is more likely? The CBI, IMF, WTO, U.S. Treasury have been and are continuing to lie to us, or the gurus and pumpers have been lying to us? More importantly, for WHICH of those two scenarios is there overwhelming EVIDENCE??? If you don't believe that the answer is "the gurus and pumpers," then there's no point in reading ANYTHING posted in this section. Wishful thinking and delusion can be very comforting, but also VERY DAMAGING. Once again, this has been an extremely valuable and informative thread. Keep up the great work gang! B)

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How? For prices and salaries i.e. where some private entity has full control they can be reduced by 1000x if there was a 1000x RV. But loans, bills, etc are legally binding contracts. The government has no authority to adjust them. So how does this happen?

when there is an exchange rate change, all the have to do is adjust accordingly, come on, i think sometimes you guys are difficult on purpose.

so if they now pay 100,000 dinar per month on a note (100 u.s well say) if it were to rv at $1.00 for arguement sake (though i think more .10-.25) then there new note would be sent out at 100 dinar, iraq adjusting there system is the least of there worries.

there gov isnt making the change so to speak, as there monetary policy is adjusting it through monetary changes.

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You guys have thoroughly convinced me. I am selling back my worthless dinar today. I don't want a rebellion caused by my good fortune. I think it is a crying shame that all those poor Iraqis are being left out and I don't want that on my mind at all. I am sure all of them, as well as the rest of those holding dinar will be thrilled with a devaluation and a RD of all our currency. Bravo to all of you RDers for bringing this to our attention. How thrilled I am for having you in these forums. This has really made my day!!! Now I can rest at night. Now I can forget about these forums. Now I can get rid of all this worthless toilet paper and rejoice that I have been scammed again! Thanks to all of you.

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You guys have thoroughly convinced me. I am selling back my worthless dinar today. I don't want a rebellion caused by my good fortune. I think it is a crying shame that all those poor Iraqis are being left out and I don't want that on my mind at all. I am sure all of them, as well as the rest of those holding dinar will be thrilled with a devaluation and a RD of all our currency. Bravo to all of you RDers for bringing this to our attention. How thrilled I am for having you in these forums. This has really made my day!!! Now I can rest at night. Now I can forget about these forums. Now I can get rid of all this worthless toilet paper and rejoice that I have been scammed again! Thanks to all of you.

You are welcome.

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when there is an exchange rate change, all the have to do is adjust accordingly, come on, i think sometimes you guys are difficult on purpose.

so if they now pay 100,000 dinar per month on a note (100 u.s well say) if it were to rv at $1.00 for arguement sake (though i think more .10-.25) then there new note would be sent out at 100 dinar, iraq adjusting there system is the least of there worries.

there gov isnt making the change so to speak, as there monetary policy is adjusting it through monetary changes.

The government is not making the change? Then who is making it? The exchange rate changes, prices in the market will adjust on their own by the vendors changing the price for what they sell. Same with wages where there is no employment contract. But for loans and bills and contracts of any sort those will not be automatically adjusted as there is no provision in such contracts to follow the dollar exchange rate. I was not asking what the adjustment should be arithmetically, clearly its divided by 1000 if there is a 1000x RV, but how logistically can this change be made. Are they going to pass a law about it (and hence announce it way ahead of time)? Even then would such a law be constitutional? The government does not have the authority to set prices or adjust contracts, its a free market.

For an RD there is no issue as both currencies are still used for a time and even after that time passes there is a stated exchange rate between old and new.

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Dinarck addressed CITCF's comment about the change issue:

"Next you attempt to address the change issue but that doesnt really hold much water. Daily business would not be possible. Period." First I would like to admit...I attempted, HA HA HA...and freely admit that any numbers other than 0 and 1 confuse the hell out of me especially when offered in fractional and sometimes decimal form. HOW EVA!! I have to ask why you said daily business would not be possible? Haven't we all seen where two currencies coexist? If there is an RD as was suggested...I'm simply assuming (as clearly stated in my earlier comments) that the lower Denoms will be sent to out lying cities provences for easily recoverable exchanges and that those with enough money/social standing would easily afford a trip to the big city to exchange their big wads. Almost, I implied persons would get an offer for (one time maybe as an after thought to my statement?) exchange of very small amounts of current dinar bills. Iraq has addressed a possiblility of using phones to manage (now more beneficial) bank accounts and transactions for rural Iraq. Even the poor are not to destitute that they have no phones it would seem. period."

CITCF is still missing the main point....The QUANTITY of change needed. Let's say an Iraqi woman comes into the grocery to buy a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread. Post RV, those items would cost roughly 4 Dinars (assuming a $1 RV) She pays with a 10,000 Dinar note - or worse yet, a 25k note. The merchant then has to give her 9,996 Dinars in change - or 24,996 with the 25k note. This means that EVERY merchant in Iraq would have to keep HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of DOLLARS worth of Dinars in their stores in order to make change for daily purchases for as long as the three zero notes remain legal tender. How is this even remotely possible? WHO has that kind of money laying around, without even considering the SECURITY issues involved. It not only isn't "physically" possible to have that quantity of change available, it isn't "financially" possible, and it certainly would present mind boggling security risks. Right?

And let's be real. How many Iraqi's do you really believe have cell phones. Most of them don't have running water and electricity. How are they going to use or afford cell phones. Sure, SOME of them probably have them, for as often as they actually WORK, but look at the BIGGER picture Keep up the good fight Dinarck. ;) .

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Thanks Legolas. Yeah it is hard to picture how that senerio would work but we really dont need to figure out how it would work because it wouldnt work. We have seen in the news section how many state that the lower denoms will be exchanged 1 to 1 without even stopping to think how rediculous that is. It cannot be clearer that everytime Iraq mentions the new currency or removing three zeros they mean a basic 1000 to 1 redenomination unfortunately.

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Hey Legolas. Did you happen to catch the article in the news section were they say they will slowly raise the dinar up to par with the dollar before the RD? I kew that was inevitable. Of course just about every reply was how they are saying 100,000% RV. Haha..Anyway the hype is gonna be off the charts with each small blip upwards till they reach .001. Wonder how fast they can acheive it. Guess we wait and see.

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Hey Legolas. Did you happen to catch the article in the news section were they say they will slowly raise the dinar up to par with the dollar before the RD? I kew that was inevitable. Of course just about every reply was how they are saying 100,000% RV. Haha..Anyway the hype is gonna be off the charts with each small blip upwards till they reach .001. Wonder how fast they can acheive it. Guess we wait and see.

LOL. No, I missed that one. Is there a link to it? It sure would be nice if they would RV to $1 "before" a re-denomination, but that makes absolutely no sense at all. They'd have to be completely stupid to do that, and Shabibi is no dummy. I'm still hoping that they'll RV to MORE than $1 "after" RD. I think I figured out that I need something very close to $1.25 to break even, and anything over that is profit. <_<

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Hey Legolas. Did you happen to catch the article in the news section were they say they will slowly raise the dinar up to par with the dollar before the RD? I kew that was inevitable. Of course just about every reply was how they are saying 100,000% RV. Haha..Anyway the hype is gonna be off the charts with each small blip upwards till they reach .001. Wonder how fast they can acheive it. Guess we wait and see.

Hey DCK.......I just looked at the news articles for today. If you're referring to the one that's titled "Raising the Value of All Dinars to Equal One Dollar" - the article still starts out in the very first sentence stating that it will be AFTER the removal of the three zeros. It states:

a source in the Iraqi Central Bank about four companies currently competing to win the draft printing the new Iraqi dinar, which will generate graceful after deleting three zeros from it, as Samay central bank to raise the value of the dinar against the dollar gradually down to the day to start replacement where the value will be in the absence of a fluctuation of Iraqi dinars and one equivalent of U.S. $ one.

Read more:

People continue to insist upon missing the important details. YES, they've stated the intent to raise the value to be on a par with the U.S. Dollar, but they ALSO repeatedly state that it will be AFTER the removal of the three zeros - which makes perfect sense.

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Yeah. Thats what I meant. I read it as slowly rising to .001 pre RD but you seem to be correct. It does seem to state after removal of the zeros. It is kind of hard to tell really. They use the term removal of the three zeros to describe the RD but we dont really know when in the RD. What I mean is they are vauge as to what part of the process they are referring to. Does it mean they have gained approval. Does it mean they have gotten permission to print the new currrency. Does it mean they have began printing the new currency. Does it mean they introduce the new currency. Does it mean they have removed all the old currency and the RD is complete. It seems to me that they have used the term remove three zeros to describe each part of the RD process so it is hard to tell when they are talking about. Haha... Maybe they are saying as soon as the law is passed but the new currency still isnt out. Or maybe they mean the day of the new currency introduction. Who knows

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First, Dinarck has done a fantastic job in addressing EVERY issue thrown at him in this thread, and I think he's absolutely correct in every reply, so there's no point in going thru every one of them again and beating this thing to a pulp. Several others have eloquently reinforced what's been stated. What we're saying here either makes sense to you, or it doesn't. I'm SO incredibly tired of the "smoke and mirrors" line, and the belief that the CBI is "simply LYING to us. The truth is that their financial statements have been monitored VERY closely for a very long time now by "several" different agencies and with very good reason. YES, numbers can always be off slightly, and no audit can be perfect. But they can't be off by much, and CERTAINLY not by TRILLIONS. It's just not possible, even with the kind of wishful thinking seen daily on Dinar forums.

In all seriousness, I think the number of IQD speculators has been drastically underestimated, and the amount of IQD "held" by each of those speculators is ALSO grossly underestimated. Keep in mind that it only takes ONE Million Millions to equal ONE TRILLION. After 8 years of this ride, does anyone really believe that there aren't AT LEAST one million Dinar speculators in the U.S. alone? That would be less than 1/3 of ONE PERCENT of the population. I suspect that it's much higher, but even at that minimal number, it's easy to see where TRILLIONS of Dinars are likely held by speculators. I used to believe that the average number of IQD held by speculators was probably 1-2 million, but having watched this for a while now, I think the averages are probably MUCH higher. MANY people now hold more than 10 million IQD each. Keep in mind that even with only ONE MILLION speculators, EACH MILLION held creates another TRILLION, so how hard is it to see how those trillions in circulation could possibly exist? But even none of THIS really matters, Again, it's all in the numbers, and if there are trillions in circulation, there can be NO RV. It's really very simple, and everyone wants to make it very complicated. The numbers alone are very difficult for most people to understand, but it's the simplest way to look at the overall issue.

Which is more likely? The CBI, IMF, WTO, U.S. Treasury have been and are continuing to lie to us, or the gurus and pumpers have been lying to us? More importantly, for WHICH of those two scenarios is there overwhelming EVIDENCE??? If you don't believe that the answer is "the gurus and pumpers," then there's no point in reading ANYTHING posted in this section. Wishful thinking and delusion can be very comforting, but also VERY DAMAGING. Once again, this has been an extremely valuable and informative thread. Keep up the great work gang! B)

You think that a million people are invested in the U.S. alone?

That is a crazy thought, in my opinion.

Dinar vets is easily found through any search on the internet for anything IQD related.

Its how I came across this site...

Test it yourself: In fact, I use "google" in an attempt to find posts on DV because it is easier than the forums search function itself at times.

Now look at the total members for this site: Not even 50,000 members

That is far short of a million people, huh?

Now, think about this, out of all those members some are duplicate accounts, banned accounts, spam accounts, and maybe previously IQD holding speculators.

If you hold more than 1 million, you likely are not just throwing $1,000+ away at a hail mary. You simply do your due diligence and research.

Now out of the active members, there is likely many who hold very little IQD (i.e., 100k, 250k, 500k, etc) however, that is offset by some who likely hold many millions.

Now here is the "kicker" that many may love.... This is where the average lopster who would believe that many IQD is held by US people within the states becomes a hypocrite if they like to prefer to take everything the CBI or Shabbibi says at face value.

Shabbibi was quoted for saying that very little IQD resides outside of the country. (VERY LITTLE) with the exception of some IQD that is in nearby countries from trade.

So, how are we so supposed to take the credibility of a lopster who states that they believe everything that the CBI or Shabbibi says is fact than turn around with a negative spin & put out the idea that millions of people hold IQD within the states ALONE!?!?

Are they now going to say "Shabbibi was putting up smokes & mirrors?" LMAO

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