Iraqi Central intensify its efforts to delete the zeros of the Iraqi currency

[keepmwlknfny]

Do you honestly believe America won't benefit from Iraq? Considering everything she has invested at this point (Lives, Money, Time) I don't believe we invaded Iraq for no return on investment. When I follow your post you never mention anything about the U.S. being vested in Iraq. How do you think America will benefit from Iraq?

Oil....just like it always has....we will benefit from that, but there is nothing leading to our own govt making trillions of dollars off currency speculation....

See, here is the reason I simply disagree with the fear campaign that you're running..

If a person is trading with neighboring countries for goods, they may deal in cash (notes)

So if Bob goes to Kuwait and buys apples from Rob for 50,000 IQD... Rob can take the IQD and visit Tom back in Iraq for maybe goat milk. Tom takes the IQD received and visits Bob to buy apples to feed his goat.

This cycle continues every day....

*BOOM* Suddenly the borders are closed, which happens after Bob went to buy apples. Rob has IQD, now he can't get back into the country. Tom can't sell his milk, and Rob can't spend his IQD.

Borders open up, and guess what... Rob is furious, and no longer deals w/ IQD whatsoever..

Bob can't buy apples, Tom can't sell milk.

Rob finds new people to deal with.. (or simply refuses to deal w/ IQD)

Either A) Bob & Tom are going to struggle because of this

or They'll have to rely on USD and ditch IQD all together

Either way, If I was Rob, I would be cautious and bitter about being stuck with something of value that suddenly became of no value.

I would probably recoup my losses as well by increasing prices & refusing IQD.

Yup - a border closure a great idea? LOL

It surely didnt keep anyone from rushing in to invest in Iraq after they did it the first couple times.....

So I fail to see what the difference would be now....the bigger players are in Iraq already and for oil.....I doubt they would be worried about an in country only exchange of IDQ....again, its not like they could use it anywhere else so what would be the purpose of them holding on to massive amounts of physical dinar outside the country?

[Stryker365]

I was over there too, as a civilian. I just came back in June after 2 1/2 years. 'ALL' of the Iraqis who worked for me wanted to be paid with $'s. When I first got there and attempted to conduct monthly pay with IQD they 'ALL' rejected it and said they wanted $'s. I have a little experience with dealing with IQD/$'s in rural and domestic areas of Iraq. That's why I said what I said. While there might not have been a 'formal' edict passed from a minister that stated dollarization was now in effect, for all practical purposes the Iraqi citizens put it into play. You may not be aware of the term and practice called ‘mini-grants’ where certain Iraqi businesses and GOI satellite offices were provided US funds for infrastructure development. They did not want IQD.

In my scenario I attempted to address your question regarding why I thought closing the borders would be evidence of counterfeiting. Perhaps, I should have made myself a clearer by qualifying what I meant by dollarization. In my scenario I emphasized acts that would be considered corrupt and/or illegal based upon the ‘intent’ of the GOI while benefiting from an unofficial, but nonetheless, occurring dollarization event.

Keep, do you seriously believe that Iraq will be looked upon favorably by the world powers and financial institutions if they close the borders to avoid payment on the IQD they printed and sold with the intent to avoid paying the fair market price?

I don’t.

GH

I like the way you think.

Believe me, if I have to, I will get on a jet.

GH

Private jet will be ready and fueled, we already have it planned just in case because you never know....nice airport too....

[keepmwlknfny]

I was over there too, as a civilian. I just came back in June after 2 1/2 years. 'ALL' of the Iraqis who worked for me wanted to be paid with $$'s. When I first got there and attempted to conduct monthly pay with IQD they 'ALL' rejected it and said they wanted $$'s. I have a little experience with dealing with IQD/$$'s in rural and domestic areas of Iraq. That's why I said what I said. While there might not have been a 'formal' edict passed from a minister that stated dollarization was now in effect, for all practical purposes the Iraqi citizens put it into play. You may not be aware of the term and practice called ‘mini-grants’ where certain Iraqi businesses and GOI satellite offices were provided US funds for infrastructure development. They did not want IQD.

In my scenario I attempted to address your question regarding why I thought closing the borders would be evidence of counterfeiting. Perhaps, I should have made myself a clearer by qualifying what I meant by dollarization. In my scenario I emphasized acts that would be considered corrupt and/or illegal based upon the ‘intent’ of the GOI while benefiting from an unofficial, but nonetheless, occurring dollarization event.

Keep, do you seriously believe that Iraq will be looked upon favorably by the world powers and financial institutions if they close the borders to avoid payment on the IQD they printed and sold with the intent to avoid paying the fair market price?

I don’t.

GH

GH

I know what you mean, and Im sure they did and do still prefer USD because of its buying power, but it just seemed like you were implying that it was a push throughout Iraq with the govt and the CBI to dollarize Iraq for the purposes of being able to pull off some sort of hybrid payout/RV for speculators.

Does the world look down upon the other countries who did the same thing who play a role in the worlds oil supply?? The boat load of other countries that produce a decent amount of oil and that have redenominated are still doing business with the world. Its just a fact or part of a lot of upcoming economies.....another reason why physical currency speculation isnt as popular or widespread vs doing it electronically with a place such as forex...

Im just making a point that it may not be so crazy to think that all these financial "experts" saying that the dinar is a scam because you cant exchange them outside the country....

We immediately think that it cant be true and that they are talking nonsense because in some areas you can still buy and sell dinar at the bank but in an event like a redenomination, the odds are not in our favor....

[Elixirbaby]

Private jet will be ready and fueled, we already have it planned just in case because you never know....nice airport too....

Be sure to call me . I can have my bags packed fast.

[keepmwlknfny]

I think we will be ok! We all have plenty from the last exchange, back in 04', when the borders were supposedly closed.

Not sure what you mean? lol

Im sure there are dinar floating around from that time period....but the date of your bills is not the issue....

[George Hayduke]

Private jet will be ready and fueled, we already have it planned just in case because you never know....nice airport too....

Counting on it! Private or commercial, I'm going first class all the way...

[Stryker365]

Be sure to call me . I can have my bags packed fast.

You're at the top of the list.........we won't need too but believe me we have thought of it all including special ops, see my brother-n-law is the head of the ops, it's easy he knows a lot of retired ones welling to go....I'd feel like a rock star with bodygaurds.....

[BTSC2000]

Oil....just like it always has....we will benefit from that, but there is nothing leading to our own govt making trillions of dollars off currency speculation....

It surely didnt keep anyone from rushing in to invest in Iraq after they did it the first couple times.....

So I fail to see what the difference would be now....the bigger players are in Iraq already and for oil.....I doubt they would be worried about an in country only exchange of IDQ....again, its not like they could use it anywhere else so what would be the purpose of them holding on to massive amounts of physical dinar outside the country?

What makes you come to that conclusion? What about opportunity for long term investments i.e. Infrastructure, Forex, Stock Exchange, commodities, networking, outside U.S. investors with new ideas for a new Iraq? Don't you think the U.S. can make trillions that way long term? You think oil is the only focus? The U.S. depending on Iraqi oil for consumption and missing other opportunities for long term investments is hard to believe. When Iraq becomes a bit more secure don't you think the oil companies will create more jobs and more jobs will create opportunities for a better quality of life and a better quality of life will create spending and trading outside of Iraq?

Edited March 13, 2012 by BTSC2000

[Carrello]

Oh my.....I'm right behind you fnb...wow no wonder my finger hurts...

I hit 5555 last night. I don't watch it, but I just happened to catch it.

Private jet will be ready and fueled, we already have it planned just in case because you never know....nice airport too....

Please reserve a seat for me. You might need a big jet.

[Stryker365]

I hit 5555 last night. I don't watch it, but I just happened to catch it.

Please reserve a seat for me. You might need a big jet.

Big dinning room and a big jet, sounds like John Travolta to me.......I guy I don't know but he did give me one of his jet trips to give a way in a golf tournament one year. He flow the winning couple from LA to San Fran for diner, ate diner with them and flow them back.I talk to him on the phone but never meet him, so i don't think he will fly us to Iraq and back.

[Zekiel]

OK........ so look at this paragraph again:

"He noted the benefit that the new currency contained categories of paper and metal, stressing the importance of the project to delete zeros in facilitating financial transactions, and pointed out that government banks are the only outlet for the process of replacing the currency that will continue over two years ."

This has nothing to do with cashing in. All it is referring to is the exchange, which is part of a redenomination. In an RD, all nations who have done that, all have a term called an Exchange Ratio, which has nothing to with Exchange Rate. Exchange Ratio is the number of old notes to exchange for new notes.

Now, understanding that, then we can understand, that all this means, is that GOI Banks will be the official distribution point, where old notes are redeemed for new notes, as a free service.

Knowing that, now it is a bit easier to understand, that this does not say, that dealers or private banks will not still take in old notes, for a fee or spread, for new IQD, USD, Euro, Yen, etc. and it certainly would not preclude any international treasury, from trading with GOI Banks and CBI.

We are really letting our imaginations run away from us, to suggest a closed border, means nobody but Iraqis can cash in, and it certainly does not mean international banks and dealers cannot redeem old notes for new ones, at the GOI Banks.

All it means, is that GOI Banks are the authorized distribution point for redemption of old notes for new notes, at the officially announced exchange ratio.

Much of this will in fact, serve to our benefit and that of Iraq, because it is simply a way, to better regulate to keep laundering and counterfeiting from getting out of control.

Strict closed border policies, that preclude outsiders and even internal private banks from the process, are only done, historically, in totally despotic regimes.

We are worrying here about nothing, basically.

The greater issue, will be the RD Exchange Ratio, because it remains to be seen, if this regime will do a revenue neutral, revenue negative or revenue positive, Exchange Ratio, in tandem with a 1000 to 1 RD. That has never been revealed and more than likely will not be, until the GOI authorizes, the increase of liquidity and accepts that liability, for themselves and for the people of Iraq.

One other note, concerning the authority of CBI under 36 CBI law, to issue new currency. Be careful with this one and what you wish for, because that would only mean a 1000 to 1 Exchange Ratio, because CBI cannot take on the additional liability, for anything more than a 'Revenue Neutral RD'.

It would take the GOI to authorize and accept the additional liability, for a 'Revenue Positive RD'.

[George Hayduke]

I hit 5555 last night. I don't watch it, but I just happened to catch it.

Please reserve a seat for me. You might need a big jet.

The A-380 is a double decker and has all the room party goer's will need to chase each around

GH

[Carrello]

Zekiel, it is good to see you here. I am hopeful that some our more technical members that possibly do not know you, will listen to what you have to say and know that it has credance.

[JustNTime]

Private jet will be ready and fueled, we already have it planned just in case because you never know....nice airport too....

I dont plan on ever going to ME. I plan on cashing out right here in good ole USA!

Keep, btw, thanks for bringing out all the intelligence from our group of the best there is!

Also, hows that baby doing?

[zigmeister]

One other note, concerning the authority of CBI under 36 CBI law, to issue new currency. Be careful with this one and what you wish for, because that would only mean a 1000 to 1 Exchange Ratio, because CBI cannot take on the additional liability, for anything more than a 'Revenue Neutral RD'.

It would take the GOI to authorize and accept the additional liability, for a 'Revenue Positive RD'.

Thank you Ms C for pointing out Zekiel's post/response. Its a good one. So Zekiel educate me here on this paragraph, the 36 CBI law to issue new currency what is the trap?

[fastarnie]

What about when Iraq discontinued the 25 dinar note and they closed the borders?

What about when Russia changed its currency? They werent at war either.....its just done a lot of the time across the board regardless of the situation....

I dont really see it as being apples to oranges if thats almost the norm when a country changes or introduces a new currency.....I would imagine not only the liabilities being reduced, but also a way to try and contain inside the borders and being able to avoid possible counterfiet bills being brought in from other countries to try and get them exchanged.

If there was more positive news coming out then things would be different.....I take exactly what I see from all the articles....everyone gets happy about the lop articles because they are including the dinar having a stronger value so they immediately think that its great news, but all I see is nonsense and garbage. Anything that has to do with the currency is talking about redenominating so Im sorry if I cant be a little more positive

When something arises, Ill let you know!

But that is mostly based on Iraq wanting to dollarize, but everything I can remember is about how they want to de-dollarize Iraq.....even back when I first invested I remember reading many articles about a push to start de-dollarizing Iraq and at that time I knew a couple people over there that were some what confirming the articles...

What leads you to believe that they are purposely dollarizing Iraq??

These articles are for the Iraqis though.....they are talking to the citizens of Iraq that the govt banks within Iraq will be where the currency is accepted for exchange. If banks arent accepting dinar now, what is to show that it would change?? Granted there are SOME banks that will still buy back dinar but that list is also getting shorter and shorter. If there is limited access to a bank in the states to cash in, or the rest stop taking it back, then there isnt a whole lot we can do.

I dont know the inner workings of these dealers we buy from, but hopefully if it comes down to it, there would be a way to sell back to them

If banks arent accepting dinar now, what is to show that it would change? I think our banks will start trading dinar when the IMF changes Iraqs status. I really don't see a problem. We will not get screwed, I hope

OK........ so look at this paragraph again:

"He noted the benefit that the new currency contained categories of paper and metal, stressing the importance of the project to delete zeros in facilitating financial transactions, and pointed out that government banks are the only outlet for the process of replacing the currency that will continue over two years ."

This has nothing to do with cashing in. All it is referring to is the exchange, which is part of a redenomination. In an RD, all nations who have done that, all have a term called an Exchange Ratio, which has nothing to with Exchange Rate. Exchange Ratio is the number of old notes to exchange for new notes.

Now, understanding that, then we can understand, that all this means, is that GOI Banks will be the official distribution point, where old notes are redeemed for new notes, as a free service.

Knowing that, now it is a bit easier to understand, that this does not say, that dealers or private banks will not still take in old notes, for a fee or spread, for new IQD, USD, Euro, Yen, etc. and it certainly would not preclude any international treasury, from trading with GOI Banks and CBI.

We are really letting our imaginations run away from us, to suggest a closed border, means nobody but Iraqis can cash in, and it certainly does not mean international banks and dealers cannot redeem old notes for new ones, at the GOI Banks.

All it means, is that GOI Banks are the authorized distribution point for redemption of old notes for new notes, at the officially announced exchange ratio.

Much of this will in fact, serve to our benefit and that of Iraq, because it is simply a way, to better regulate to keep laundering and counterfeiting from getting out of control.

Strict closed border policies, that preclude outsiders and even internal private banks from the process, are only done, historically, in totally despotic regimes.

We are worrying here about nothing, basically.

The greater issue, will be the RD Exchange Ratio, because it remains to be seen, if this regime will do a revenue neutral, revenue negative or revenue positive, Exchange Ratio, in tandem with a 1000 to 1 RD. That has never been revealed and more than likely will not be, until the GOI authorizes, the increase of liquidity and accepts that liability, for themselves and for the people of Iraq.

One other note, concerning the authority of CBI under 36 CBI law, to issue new currency. Be careful with this one and what you wish for, because that would only mean a 1000 to 1 Exchange Ratio, because CBI cannot take on the additional liability, for anything more than a 'Revenue Neutral RD'.

It would take the GOI to authorize and accept the additional liability, for a 'Revenue Positive RD'.

I knew there was no problem. Thanks for the post.

[keepmwlknfny]

What makes you come to that conclusion? What about opportunity for long term investments i.e. Infrastructure, Forex, Stock Exchange, commodities, networking, outside U.S. investors with new ideas for a new Iraq? Don't you think the U.S. can make trillions that way long term? You think oil is the only focus? The U.S. depending on Iraqi oil for consumption and missing other opportunities for long term investments is hard to believe. When Iraq becomes a bit more secure don't you think the oil companies will create more jobs and more jobs will create opportunities for a better quality of life and a better quality of life will create spending and trading outside of Iraq?

I don't necessarily think that's the only reason, there are many ways for the US to capitalize on this venture in Iraq, but I would tend to believe that their oil and other natural resources are a main focus....

[sonny1]

keep, your using scare tactics now?

when it rv;s, and it will, they would of lopped years ago, its even crazy to talk lop, we will be able to cash-in dont let some scare you off.

the loppers try to get there point across at any means.

[BTSC2000]

I don't necessarily think that's the only reason, there are many ways for the US to capitalize on this venture in Iraq, but I would tend to believe that their oil and other natural resources are a main focus....

With what you just said about (other natural resources) don't think America will have some input / investment in the initial direction Iraq will go?

[geman]

"and pointed out that government banks are the only outlet for the process of replacing the currency that will continue over two years ."

If thats the case, and only Iraqi govt banks are being talked about, then we might be in trouble......unless these dealers have someway to get dinar back into Iraq to be exchanged.....but it would appear that they would do exactly what they did last time and close the borders....

I dont like this as much as seeing deleting the zeros being talked about....

for the people of Irac, no drive up side street wanta be banks. not talking about outside it's boarders I hope.

I don't necessarily think that's the only reason, there are many ways for the US to capitalize on this venture in Iraq, but I would tend to believe that their oil and other natural resources are a main focus....

Keep not sure why you were neg-ed but your all even up now

[Zekiel]

Thank you Ms C for pointing out Zekiel's post/response. Its a good one. So Zekiel educate me here on this paragraph, the 36 CBI law to issue new currency what is the trap?

Here is the last paragraph, I was referring to:

"It is noteworthy that Article 36 of the Law on Central Bank of Iraq gives him the right to replace the currency and adjusted according to the list of control governing the work of the new currency."

Some will try to use that statement, to say, GOI has no say, that CBI can do an RV, unilaterally, and try to use that statement to prove a point, that they are an independent agency and can act unilaterally. To some extent, yes, they can, but that is also limited. Here is why, in part:

So, pointing out in advance, that the last paragraph, of the article, will become another talking point used by some, to show, that CBI has total control of an RV, which is nothing to do with increasing the value or liquidity of the country. The people of Iraq and their elected representatives are the ones, who increase liquidity and CBI cannot take on the liability of increased liquidity, beyond their means.

The limit of CBI's means is directly proportional to their available Foreign Exchange Reserves, which is only, $60 Billion US.

With 30 Trillion IQD in circulation, to revalue at say, $1.00, CBI would have to take on the liability of $30 Trillion US.

Only GOI can take on that kind of liability, and even that, would be a real stretch.

If increased value = increased liquidity, (which it would be, in any Revenue Positive Event, whether RD or RV), then Increased Liquidity = Increased Liability.

[TQueezy]

The limit of CBI's means is directly proportional to their available Foreign Exchange Reserves, which is only, $60 Billion US.

With 30 Trillion IQD in circulation, to revalue at say, $1.00, CBI would have to take on the liability of $30 Trillion US.

Only GOI can take on that kind of liability, and even that, would be a real stretch.

If increased value = increased liquidity, (which it would be, in any Revenue Positive Event, whether RD or RV), then Increased Liquidity = Increased Liability.

So, basically you are saying that the CBI has to appease the minds and opinions of the politicians to convince them to change the value of the IQD and its relative exchange rate in international markets, as they can't do so, themselves not having the means to take on the liability for that value?

Then... why did we all buy IQD with the hopes they would suddenly drastically change the value, thinking it would be nothing for them to do it, that they would drop the Arabic banking 100% reserve backing and adopt fractional reserve banking, allowing for a 3+ RV exchange rate of US to the IQD? Were we all that dumb and didn't know anything about the CBI's lack of ability to fund that type of increase in their currency's value?

If this is all so impossible based on their money supply and foreign currency reserves, then it makes no sense for any of us to keep holding this money, as nothing good can come of it.

Am I right? Or what are you really trying to say?

[Zekiel]

So, basically you are saying that the CBI has to appease the minds and opinions of the politicians to convince them to change the value of the IQD and its relative exchange rate in international markets, as they can't do so, themselves not having the means to take on the liability for that value?

Then... why did we all buy IQD with the hopes they would suddenly drastically change the value, thinking it would be nothing for them to do it, that they would drop the Arabic banking 100% reserve backing and adopt fractional reserve banking, allowing for a 3+ RV exchange rate of US to the IQD? Were we all that dumb and didn't know anything about the CBI's lack of ability to fund that type of increase in their currency's value?

If this is all so impossible based on their money supply and foreign currency reserves, then it makes no sense for any of us to keep holding this money, as nothing good can come of it.

Am I right? Or what are you really trying to say?

What I am suggesting is, more simple to understand if you do not get hung up on a $3.50 rate (which is a 350,000% return)

With that, look at this as a legitimate investment, and understand, that in any real investment there are risks and no guarantees.

Now, consider, that it is possible, for GOI to increase liquidity and hence liability, which in effect, could cause a nice profit at the point of redemption, IF, the GOI will support that increased liquidity, to the extent they are able.

My personal view is that they can indeed absorb liability that would more realistically, be in the range of under $1 Trillion US, and over $300 Billion.

That would be a more realistic and real estimation of what the actual Equilibrium would suggest, in primary and secondary market demands in all 3 methodologies used by the IMF and World Central Banking in exchange rate policies.

That equates to about 1 cent to maybe 3 cent per dinar and is about a 1000% to 3000% return on your investment.

So, that said..... if that is logical, then please...... you tell me, if that is worth owning dinar, if there is even a 50/50 chance of that being the case.

I am just saying, there are no guarantees. That is a fact of life.

If you see it as being a bad investment, because you cannot be guaranteed, a 350,000% return ..... or to be payed $3,500 dollars for every dollar you invested..... then ok..... you have me there.

Since only you can determine that for yourself, and if that makes it a bad investment..... who am I to argue with you? If you say the possibility of only a 1000 to 3000 % return with a 50/ 50 chance of a lop is a bad investment...... then for some, perhaps it is.

One thing I will not do is to give false hope.

False hope is not hope at all. In fact, i know people who have lost everything, to such false hope.

Personally, I happen to think the potential for over a 1000% return, is one of the best investment potentials of my lifetime...... then again..... that is only my own view of the world.

That is good for me..... might not be so good for anyone else.

All I can say, is do not buy any reserves based on any windows this year, for any RV over 10 cents. Send me the money instead. I will at least send back half of it after your 45 days expires.

[TQueezy]

One thing I will not do is to give false hope.

False hope is not hope at all. In fact, i know people who have lost everything, to such false hope.

Personally, I happen to think the potential for over a 1000% return, is one of the best investment potentials of my lifetime...... then again..... that is only my own view of the world.

That is good for me..... might not be so good for anyone else.

All I can say, is do not buy any reserves based on any windows this year, for any RV over 10 cents. Send me the money instead. I will at least send back half of it after your 45 days expires.

Oh, c'mon there Z...

You know I was just looking for you to shout C'mon RV! dancing from the rooftops naked with Possum and Okie, drinking Redbull & Vodka!

Yes, the skeptical thoughts aren't always beneficial, but at the same time... 350,000% return on investment... sheesh. That's quite insane. But I would love to see it happen, so I'll keep thinking its possible, regardless of the numbers proving its not. I know, I know... I'm foolish, sheepish, lemmingish... and all sorts of other ish.

But at least I'm happy dreaming about my sports cars and multiple rental properties bringing me in a steady income so I don't have to work a 40 hr/week deskjob.

Cheers!

[Zekiel]

Oh, c'mon there Z...

You know I was just looking for you to shout C'mon RV! dancing from the rooftops naked with Possum and Okie, drinking Redbull & Vodka!

Yes, the skeptical thoughts aren't always beneficial, but at the same time... 350,000% return on investment... sheesh. That's quite insane. But I would love to see it happen, so I'll keep thinking its possible, regardless of the numbers proving its not. I know, I know... I'm foolish, sheepish, lemmingish... and all sorts of other ish.

But at least I'm happy dreaming about my sports cars and multiple rental properties bringing me in a steady income so I don't have to work a 40 hr/week deskjob.

Cheers!

ROTFLMAO

Figured you were baiting me..... heheheheh!