Kuwait RV VS IRAQI DINAR RV

[GMartin]

I have been researching for quite sometime now regarding this so called re-evaluation of kuwait and I have posted my findings on this site earlier this year. I was able to pin point the time frame Kuwait increased and decreased their value. I will state that in my previous findings posted somewhere on this forum Kuwait RV twice; One was semi low and another closer in value all in a time frame of 5 years. They also had two currencies in existence during this time. Check that on wikipedia

Don't believe it ever happened to begin with? check it out for yourself - http://www.cbk.gov.kw/WWW/exchange_rates.html

So in theory Kuwait did technically revalue BIG overnight and set a limit on the amount of funds they could decrease and increase meaning RV at XXXfils cannot exceed XXX fils in XXX timeframe hence 5yrs reference. They planned this for several years...

GO RV

[keepmwlknfny]

I have been researching for quite sometime now regarding this so called re-evaluation of kuwait and I have posted my findings on this site earlier this year. I was able to pin point the time frame Kuwait increased and decreased their value. I will state that in my previous findings posted somewhere on this forum Kuwait RV twice; One was semi low and another closer in value all in a time frame of 5 years. They also had two currencies in existence during this time. Check that on wikipedia

Don't believe it ever happened to begin with? check it out for yourself - http://www.cbk.gov.k...ange_rates.html

So in theory Kuwait did technically revalue BIG overnight and set a limit on the amount of funds they could decrease and increase meaning RV at XXXfils cannot exceed XXX fils in XXX timeframe hence 5yrs reference. They planned this for several years...

GO RV

But the chart shows the history of the Kuwaiti dinar exchange rate against the USD and it never really fluctuates in huge jumps...just little ones which would just indicate small changes up and down in its value.....

[TonyDownTheShore]

Here's what Adam said this morning

Iraq's currency is backed by the same thing. Back when the Dinar was valued at $3, they had about the same amount of oil, gas, people, etc. When the world's faith in them dropped, so did the value of their currency.

So, if it is to raise, how do they justify it? Certainly not because "we just want to raise it"! No, they say "We are raising it, and we will back it with our word, our credit, and our resources".

Common sense. this ends Adam's quote.

So in my opinion, even though Iraq has trillions, they hold most of it in their vaults, there was an article saying that, very little Dinars is out of Iraq.

[bodeen]

Crush Expected When Kuwaiti Banks Reopen Today

March 24, 1991|From Reuters

KUWAIT CITY, Kuwait — Thousands of Kuwaitis are expected to jam the country's banks today when they open for the first time since the end of the Iraqi occupation.

Customers will be allowed to withdraw funds and to swap pre-invasion money for a new currency issued to make more than $1 billion in pre-invasion dinars stolen by the Iraqis worthless.

"We expect a rush of people," said Issam Asousi, an executive with the Bank of Kuwait. He said it could be a chaotic first week because customers have a lot of questions about their accounts.

Kuwaiti banks continued operating during the seven-month Iraqi occupation under managers brought in from Iraq, but they have been closed since the U.S.-led alliance ousted the Iraqi army from Kuwait a month ago.

When the banks reopen today, customers will be able to withdraw up to 4,000 Kuwaiti dinars, equivalent to about $14,000 at pre-invasion exchange rates from their accounts, and to exchange a like amount for foreign currency.

Balances of customers' accounts will go back to what they were on Aug. 1, a day before the invasion.

Clients will not be able to exchange Iraqi currency issued during the occupation, when Baghdad pegged the rates of the strong Kuwaiti dinar to the far less valuable Iraqi dinar.

The new Kuwaiti money will be exchanged for old at a one-to-one rate.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-03-24/news/mn-1395_1_kuwaiti-banks

[TonyDownTheShore]

Crush Expected When Kuwaiti Banks Reopen Today

March 24, 1991|From Reuters

KUWAIT CITY, Kuwait — Thousands of Kuwaitis are expected to jam the country's banks today when they open for the first time since the end of the Iraqi occupation.

Customers will be allowed to withdraw funds and to swap pre-invasion money for a new currency issued to make more than $1 billion in pre-invasion dinars stolen by the Iraqis worthless.

"We expect a rush of people," said Issam Asousi, an executive with the Bank of Kuwait. He said it could be a chaotic first week because customers have a lot of questions about their accounts.

Kuwaiti banks continued operating during the seven-month Iraqi occupation under managers brought in from Iraq, but they have been closed since the U.S.-led alliance ousted the Iraqi army from Kuwait a month ago.

When the banks reopen today, customers will be able to withdraw up to 4,000 Kuwaiti dinars, equivalent to about $14,000 at pre-invasion exchange rates from their accounts, and to exchange a like amount for foreign currency.

Balances of customers' accounts will go back to what they were on Aug. 1, a day before the invasion.

Clients will not be able to exchange Iraqi currency issued during the occupation, when Baghdad pegged the rates of the strong Kuwaiti dinar to the far less valuable Iraqi dinar.

The new Kuwaiti money will be exchanged for old at a one-to-one rate.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-03-24/news/mn-1395_1_kuwaiti-banks

So it looks like Iraq is on the same path. thanks for the post

[TimS]

Good post and very informative.

Any comparison of Kuwait to Iraq needs to take into consideration that all important size of Iraq's currency supply, Kuwait had/has only a small number of Kuwaiti Dinar in circulation vs the Trillions that Iraq has. If Kuwait had 30 Trillion Kuwaiti Dinar in circulation right now it's exchange rate would be as bad as Iraq's or worse.

A very important fact that almost everyone wants to overlook or completely disregard......but you are dead on. The amount of dinar in circulation is directly related to its potential value

[keepmwlknfny]

So it looks like Iraq is on the same path. thanks for the post

How so? None of what happened in Kuwait is going on in Iraq....

[TonyDownTheShore]

How so? None of what happened in Kuwait is going on in Iraq....

I'm talking about the exchange of the money old to new, here's a quote.

"The new Kuwaiti money will be exchanged for old at a one-to-one rate"

Isn't this what Iraq is doing ?

But how can that be if speculators hold Trillions? That's the problem, while it's true that faith was lost in the Dinar the roadblock to getting it back to it's previous high exchange rate is the highly inflated currency. When the Dinar was worth $3+ Iraq had only a few Billion in circulation but just the Dinar held by speculators inflates the currency far beyond that figure. Even one Trillion would be several times as much currency as Iraq had when it was still at the high rate and it would be unrealistic to think that Iraq's in-country currency and that held by speculators is anywhere near a figure as low as only 1 Trillion.

The key is that Iraq holds most of the Dinar, the money they hold in their vault is going up in value too, so they don't have to pay themselves, the money is already there, follow ?

[keepmwlknfny]

I'm talking about the exchange of the money old to new, here's a quote.

"The new Kuwaiti money will be exchanged for old at a one-to-one rate"

Isn't this what Iraq is doing ?

The only type of exchange that the CBI has been mentioning is 1000 to 1 old for new.....

We do want a one to one exchange, but so far nothing of the sort has or is being mentioned.....

[Brink]

Crush Expected When Kuwaiti Banks Reopen Today

March 24, 1991|From Reuters

KUWAIT CITY, Kuwait — Thousands of Kuwaitis are expected to jam the country's banks today when they open for the first time since the end of the Iraqi occupation.

Customers will be allowed to withdraw funds and to swap pre-invasion money for a new currency issued to make more than $1 billion in pre-invasion dinars stolen by the Iraqis worthless.

"We expect a rush of people," said Issam Asousi, an executive with the Bank of Kuwait. He said it could be a chaotic first week because customers have a lot of questions about their accounts.

Kuwaiti banks continued operating during the seven-month Iraqi occupation under managers brought in from Iraq, but they have been closed since the U.S.-led alliance ousted the Iraqi army from Kuwait a month ago.

When the banks reopen today, customers will be able to withdraw up to 4,000 Kuwaiti dinars, equivalent to about $14,000 at pre-invasion exchange rates from their accounts, and to exchange a like amount for foreign currency.

Balances of customers' accounts will go back to what they were on Aug. 1, a day before the invasion.

Clients will not be able to exchange Iraqi currency issued during the occupation, when Baghdad pegged the rates of the strong Kuwaiti dinar to the far less valuable Iraqi dinar.

The new Kuwaiti money will be exchanged for old at a one-to-one rate.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-03-24/news/mn-1395_1_kuwaiti-banks

Uhm??? Isn't this article 2 decades old?

[TonyDownTheShore]

The only type of exchange that the CBI has been mentioning is 1000 to 1 old for new.....

We do want a one to one exchange, but so far nothing of the sort has or is being mentioned.....

So, you tell me what's going to happen, if you're so sure it won't be one to one.

[markchem]

keepmwlknfny, on 30 November 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

You know thats right!! Babys R Us now accepts dinar as payment!!!

Its gonna be a girl!! Ava Marie.....

How about Dinaria Marie.

Go RV

Read more:

Got this from another closed post where we had communicated, and had a name suggestion for you Pen-e-LOP-e Marie. Couldn't resist!!!! Thanks for your replies. In all seriousness, I have three wonderful daughters and a grandchild on the way and wish you nothing but great health and happiness with your expected arrival

[TonyDownTheShore]

Yes I do follow but there's still the serious problem of the Trillions held by speculators, that is money that's in circulation. Besides for the currency held in vaults to have any value it has to be included too. They can't base their figures on what's in circulation outside of what's being held in banks and then at a later date open the vaults and use that currency too.

There's no proof that speculators hold trillions, you're speculating too, Iraqis have been using USD as you know, so Iraq knows exactly what's out of the country, and as I mentioned there's an article with Saleh saying there's very little Dinars outside the country.

[keepmwlknfny]

So, you tell me what's going to happen, if you're so sure it won't be one to one.

I dont know whats surely going to happen.....Im just repeating what the CBI has been mentioning in these delete the zeros articles....they (the CBI) is saying that if they RD, it will be an exchange of 1000 to 1 old for new.....

If this plan does pass we wont be seeing a 1 to 1 exchange.....Im just curious where the idea is coming from that when they RD we will still get a 1 to 1 exchange when thats the exact opposite of whats being laid out in front of us....redenomination is bad no matter what for us....

[TonyDownTheShore]

Speculating yes but be realistic if just one Million speculators hold 1 Million Dinar that's a Trillion and there has to be a lot more than that, think about how many hold several Million, there's almost certainly more than that in the U.S. alone! Consider how many dealers have sold multiple Millions of Dinar over several years, to think there could be less than a Trillion held by speculators is just ignoring the obvious. There's no doubt there are several Million speculators world wide and a large number of them hold 1 Million+ so it has to be in the Trillions and this does not count what Iraq has in-country which must be at least several Trillion for them to even function at today's exchange rates.

Again you're speculating on how many people hold Dinars, I know people that only hold 500k, there's no hard proof.

I dont know whats surely going to happen.....Im just repeating what the CBI has been mentioning in these delete the zeros articles....they (the CBI) is saying that if they RD, it will be an exchange of 1000 to 1 old for new.....

If this plan does pass we wont be seeing a 1 to 1 exchange.....Im just curious where the idea is coming from that when they RD we will still get a 1 to 1 exchange when thats the exact opposite of whats being laid out in front of us....redenomination is bad no matter what for us....

We're all speculating on the outcome, until it happens we won't know, my guess is as good as yours, right ?

[GMartin]

How so? None of what happened in Kuwait is going on in Iraq....

read your history and you will see A LOT of what happened in Kuwait happened in Iraq. The only difference was Iraq attacked Kuwait and no was angry at Kuwait but they still had to get their sovereignty back and rebuild their economy. Both have oil, both has wealth, both were destroyed, both needed investments, and both needed our help. sounds similar. Oh and it took a long (__l__) time for the RV.

"After the reestablishment of Kuwaiti sovereignty in February 1991, and the restoration of basic services soon afterward, the population began to return"

http://www.mongabay.com/history/kuwait/kuwait-postwar_society_kuwaitreconstruction_after_the_persian_gulf_war.html

A little more history-> http://www.mongabay.com/history/kuwait/kuwait-regional_and_national_security_considerations.html

BTW keepmwlknfny , I find your posts interesting even tho people call you a lopster I think it is good to be even on both sides of the fence. Sometimes seeing things for what they are is the ultimate plan of any government. Do you really believe everything you hear from the government. Most of the time it is years after an event that we get the full truth. As far as the graph levels, I noticed that as well, but statistically proven that they went to $3 - So that graph is interesting.

In my opinion any government is not going to tell you the whole truth because some people can't handle it. Example of our government based on how corporations work in USA....

A company has to let go of 4000 employees, the month before those 4000 thought that everything was secure and they were even given a small raise. What would ever make them think they would get a termination notice that they are no longer needed. This is how business works - we are on a need to know basis and some things we don't "NEED" to know in their eyes....

Edited December 1, 2011 by GMartin

[TonyDownTheShore]

I dont know whats surely going to happen.....Im just repeating what the CBI has been mentioning in these delete the zeros articles....they (the CBI) is saying that if they RD, it will be an exchange of 1000 to 1 old for new.....

If this plan does pass we wont be seeing a 1 to 1 exchange.....Im just curious where the idea is coming from that when they RD we will still get a 1 to 1 exchange when thats the exact opposite of whats being laid out in front of us....redenomination is bad no matter what for us....

Keep you're a very smart guy, I read you posts and I don't agree with you for the most part, we can sit here and discuss this until we're blue in the face, I see things one way and you see it another way, I'm not going to change the way you think and vice-versa, so shall we keep going or shall we leave it at that. I respect you and your opinion and I ask the same, so we'll leave it here and be friends in good standing, thanks.

[GMartin]

I don't know how much proof you need but logic has to come into play somewhere and it's just not logical to think all those dealers have been around for so long with the volume of business they have been doing and still have a low number of Dinar. Take a look at the poll posted here and get some idea of what percentage of investors hold 1 Million+ and it's obvious that most do hold 1 Million or better, you honestly can't believe there are fewer than a Million speculators surely.

Kind of odd that the discussion gets down now to saying there can't be a Trillion Dinar held outside Iraq when the trend has been up until now to argue the U.S. and other Governments are all holding Trillions, not saying you held that view but most do or did, just saying it can't be both ways but regardless it's more than logical to think there are several Trillion held outside Iraq in addition to the Trillions that are certainly held inside the country.

If I were to speculate based on US stating the average person holds 500k Dinar and say there are only 2million of us and the value is 1:1 that is 1trillion for Iraq Debt to deal with. You also have to understand that Natural Resources play a big part in the exchange with governments. Most likely as I have stated several times on this forum they will do a barter/discount with oil with other countries dinar.

[TonyDownTheShore]

I don't know how much proof you need but logic has to come into play somewhere and it's just not logical to think all those dealers have been around for so long with the volume of business they have been doing and still have a low number of Dinar. Take a look at the poll posted here and get some idea of what percentage of investors hold 1 Million+ and it's obvious that most do hold 1 Million or better, you honestly can't believe there are fewer than a Million speculators surely.

Kind of odd that the discussion gets down now to saying there can't be a Trillion Dinar held outside Iraq when the trend has been up until now to argue the U.S. and other Governments are all holding Trillions, not saying you held that view but most do or did, just saying it can't be both ways but regardless it's more than logical to think there are several Trillion held outside Iraq in addition to the Trillions that are certainly held inside the country.

I know that logic says that, I remember seen an article not long ago that said 300k to 500k people held Dinars, how accurate that is I don't know, but I tend to believe it, so that was the only time I saw anything on this matter, you'll be surprised that most people don't know about this investment, which is a good thing, only time will tell, and by the way Adam thinks they can rv at 1 dollar.

[GMartin]

Did you look at the poll? It's in line with other estimates I have seen that has the average figure well over a Million per investor. Also even the figure you came up with is prohibitive by itself, that would require that Iraq pay out to American speculators FIVE times the wealth held by Saudi Arabia! Honestly until those figures of Trillions, heck even 1 Trillion, is brought down to into Billions then these numbers just don't fit. Also as has been discussed here the oil imported into this country with the exception of the Strategic Reserve, which is rarely tapped, it is the oil companies who import oil not the Government or the Federal reserve, they are not in the oll business competing with private industry. About natural resources, undeveloped resources are potential assets not tangible assets not part of wealth until they are out of the ground, besides is there one country in the world that backs it's currency with it's natural resources either already developed or undeveloped? If there is I don't know about it but if you can provide an example of this being done now or in the past I will gladly be more than happy to find I am wrong about resources backing a currency, I hope it is true.

I didn't know there was a poll. I was stating an example.

[HopefulTxn]

read your history and you will see A LOT of what happened in Kuwait happened in Iraq. The only difference was Iraq attacked Kuwait and no was angry at Kuwait but they still had to get their sovereignty back and rebuild their economy. Both have oil, both has wealth, both were destroyed, both needed investments, and both needed our help. sounds similar. Oh and it took a long (__l__) time for the RV.

"After the reestablishment of Kuwaiti sovereignty in February 1991, and the restoration of basic services soon afterward, the population began to return"

http://www.mongabay.com/history/kuwait/kuwait-postwar_society_kuwaitreconstruction_after_the_persian_gulf_war.html

A little more history-> http://www.mongabay.com/history/kuwait/kuwait-regional_and_national_security_considerations.html

BTW keepmwlknfny , I find your posts interesting even tho people call you a lopster I think it is good to be even on both sides of the fence. Sometimes seeing things for what they are is the ultimate plan of any government. Do you really believe everything you hear from the government. Most of the time it is years after an event that we get the full truth. As far as the graph levels, I noticed that as well, but statistically proven that they went to $3 - So that graph is interesting.

In my opinion any government is not going to tell you the whole truth because some people can't handle it. Example of our government based on how corporations work in USA....

A company has to let go of 4000 employees, the month before those 4000 thought that everything was secure and they were even given a small raise. What would ever make them think they would get a termination notice that they are no longer needed. This is how business works - we are on a need to know basis and some things we don't "NEED" to know in their eyes....

You might want to take a look at this article - LINK

You will notice one very big difference between the situation in Iraq and the one that happened in Kuwait. Iraq actually devalued their own currency, which is stated in their own financial reports, whereas the reduction in value to the Kuwaiti dinar was imposed on them by an invader as a means of demoralization. While the KWD within Kuwait was being devalued by force, there were Kuwaiti's outside of the country that were reportedly still exchanging the currency at is rate of the time. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to zucchini's.

[jmw]

HopefulTxn is correct...the situations are very very different...Iraq's value went down over time due to hyper-inflation...Kuwait's was deemed worthless by Suddam when he invaded and replaced their dinar with his...it was then sold on the street for penny's on the dollar.

Once Kuwait was liberated the value was reinstated and they issued a new currency in order to keep Suddam from profiting off of the stolen Kuwait Dinar.

Iraq is looking at issuing a new currency so they can reduce their money supply which was massively inflated.

Two very different reasons and two very different outcomes.

[thatoneguy]

Keep, no one ever stated 1000 for 1. It's been the whole "drop 3 zeroes" stuff. Whether from the circulating paper or the exchange, we simply don't know. That's why we're doing what we're doing. Rolling the dice in hopes that we're a part of history.

[ssmith]

HopefulTxn is correct...the situations are very very different...Iraq's value went down over time due to hyper-inflation...Kuwait's was deemed worthless by Suddam when he invaded and replaced their dinar with his...it was then sold on the street for penny's on the dollar.

Once Kuwait was liberated the value was reinstated and they issued a new currency in order to keep Suddam from profiting off of the stolen Kuwait Dinar.

Iraq is looking at issuing a new currency so they can reduce their money supply which was massively inflated.

Two very different reasons and two very different outcomes.

I agree, it all depends on how much they have out there in circulation.. They could raise the 3 zero's & then revalue.. Small profit but I'll take it...

I'm I right with this thinking ?

[keepmwlknfny]

Keep, no one ever stated 1000 for 1. It's been the whole "drop 3 zeroes" stuff. Whether from the circulating paper or the exchange, we simply don't know. That's why we're doing what we're doing. Rolling the dice in hopes that we're a part of history.

They have actually included references to 1000 dinars equaling 1 new one in a handful of those delete the zeros articles....not recently but they have, where do you think XE got that whole redenomination information from??

If they were more vague in the overall plan that's being reported, I would agree with you but I can't......when you take the collective articles and put them all together it becomes clear what they have been saying this whole time.... its definately what we don't want to happen....if this bill is passed in parliament, there is going to be a lot of upset people.....

I agree, it all depends on how much they have out there in circulation.. They could raise the 3 zero's & then revalue.. Small profit but I'll take it...

I'm I right with this thinking ?

You would be correct in that thinking as long as we are given access to the lower denoms for exchange, and then we can hold on for longer to hopefully see the 3 dollar mark.....that could very well be our worst case scenerio......