2010 Letter of Intent to the IMF states Iraq has

[Butifldrm]

If the government of Iraq is going to redenominate, why in their 2010 Letter of Intent to the IMF do they state Revaluation accounts as an asset? They do not state Redenomination accounts. IMO, the only deterence for speculation are these articles about redenomination.

pg 19

7. Net domestic assets of the CBI include (i) net claims on the general government,

comprising of gross claims on the general government minus general government domestic

and foreign currency deposits at the CBI; (ii) gross claims on commercial banks;

(iii) monetary policy instruments, including dinar and foreign currency denominated term

deposits and CBI bills; and (iv) gross claims on non-bank, non-government entities. For the

purpose of this arrangement, net domestic assets of the CBI excludes other items net,

comprising of net fixed and other assets, minus revaluation accounts

and capital and reserve accounts. As of end-December 2009, net claims on the general government amounted to

ID 2,740 billion; gross claims on commercial banks stood at ID 4 billion; monetary policy

instruments amounted to ID -3,988 billion; and gross claims on non-bank, non-government

entities were nil, resulting in a stock of the CBI’s net domestic assets of ID -1,243 billion. As

of end-December 2009, OIN amounted to ID -1,040 billion. The program ceilings of the net

domestic assets of the CBI are reported in Table 1.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irq/020810.pdf

[HopefulTxn]

One thing that you may not be aware of is that the definition of revaluation is simply the increase in value per currency unit. Turkey performed a redenomination in 2005, yet there are several articles that refer to it as a revaluation, including the IMF:

Turkey revalued its currency by dropping six zeros from the old Lira. The new Turkish Lira (Yeni Türk Lirasi) became the new currency unit of Turkey. LINK

For ordinary Turkish citizens, the biggest indicator of that change was the revaluation of the currency at the start of this year, when one million old lira became one new lira. Link

Along with the new currency, the government introduced two different banknotes, called TRY 100 and TRY 50. After the revaluation of the lira, the Romanian leu became the least valued currency in the world. LINK

Not sure if you are aware of the problem many people have called sleep apnea, but there is a saying - not everyone that snores has sleep apnea but everyone that has sleep apnea snores - the same is true in sorts to this scenario - not all revaluations are redenominations, but all redenominations are revaluations. IMO, the best thing is to not get caught up in the words that are used, but look more at the context because words can have multiple meanings.

Please understand, nobody that holds dinar wants a redenomination to occur, I know it's not what I want them to do. But it is hard to discount the history of all other countries that have gone through this and made a change, along with the statements made by both the CBI and MoF. It's not what we want, but it is what they are saying. Statements like the trillions of dinar becoming billions of dinar, that 25,000 will carry the same value as a 'new' 25 dinar note, etc.

[srdedeaux]

Yea you nailed that one, Good explanation! GO RV

[SurfingTheDinarWave]

One thing that you may not be aware of is that the definition of revaluation is simply the increase in value per currency unit. Turkey performed a redenomination in 2005, yet there are several articles that refer to it as a revaluation, including the IMF:

Turkey revalued its currency by dropping six zeros from the old Lira. The new Turkish Lira (Yeni Türk Lirasi) became the new currency unit of Turkey. LINK

For ordinary Turkish citizens, the biggest indicator of that change was the revaluation of the currency at the start of this year, when one million old lira became one new lira. Link

Along with the new currency, the government introduced two different banknotes, called TRY 100 and TRY 50. After the revaluation of the lira, the Romanian leu became the least valued currency in the world. LINK

Not sure if you are aware of the problem many people have called sleep apnea, but there is a saying - not everyone that snores has sleep apnea but everyone that has sleep apnea snores - the same is true in sorts to this scenario - not all revaluations are redenominations, but all redenominations are revaluations. IMO, the best thing is to not get caught up in the words that are used, but look more at the context because words can have multiple meanings.

Please understand, nobody that holds dinar wants a redenomination to occur, I know it's not what I want them to do. But it is hard to discount the history of all other countries that have gone through this and made a change, along with the statements made by both the CBI and MoF. It's not what we want, but it is what they are saying. Statements like the trillions of dinar becoming billions of dinar, that 25,000 will carry the same value as a 'new' 25 dinar note, etc.

Stop with your RD theories your polluting the vibes and quite frankly are wrong for doing so, the probability of a RD is so minimal it's not even on the radar...Yes we know what a RD and what a RV is also what an RI is but what you miss is the fact of the matter that the excerpts of one article from today and one from 2 weeks ago and one from 3 months ago put together in sequence all together tell the whole story...there's several reasons why but this is the tell tail reason that defeats your argument hands down:

' the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect trading in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and its shares."

IIf an RD were to occur vs. an RV then in fact it would effect the ISX and it's shares significantly it would mean that the value of your shares held would decrease by a huge number and some shares would be negative in value by a huge number. i.e. I own 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar per share and 1 share of abc co. valued at 10,000 dinar per share if an RD would occur which would wipe the 3 0's out of the dinar my holding of 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar each would not lose nor gain value, however my 1 share of abc co. would now be valued at 10 dinar when I spent 10,000 dinar to get it and 1000 dinar to get the shares of xyz co. yet the true value of each company never went up nor down!

Turkey's stock exchange had to go through all sorts of adjustments to compensate, Iraq's will not change!!

Article Link

there is so much more than just the currency notes themselves in play in this and your arguments and point are true for a country which has no stock exchange that needs to control inflation at levels of 10,000% but they make no sense when Iraq under the currency post Saddam has held a level of inflation of 3-7.1% the latter being where they sit now. Also the currency to facilitate large banking transactions is going to have a 100,000 dinar note which would be used by the banks only from one bank to another for large transactions of trade. One more thing they are not replacing the 50 or 250 dinar notes with a coin they are filling in the gaps of and adding too the current currency which already has 25 and 100 dinar coins by adding lower and middle denominations with coins they are pulling the 25 and 100 coins because they are going to add the Kurdish language to them IMO, then release the other coins as they take in the larger denominations off the streets they will reduce the supply of larger denominations when they get into the banks by 1/3 to add even more value over time after they initially RV...This is not what Turkey did parts are similar but not the same Turkey had 2 different exchange call signs TYL and NTL each one had it's own exchange rate. Iraq will still only have one, IQD and it will have only one exchange rate!!

Central Bank Monetary Policy Education Link

[zul]

Stop with your RD theories your polluting the vibes and quite frankly are wrong for doing so, the probability of a RD is so minimal it's not even on the radar...Yes we know what a RD and what a RV is also what an RI is but what you miss is the fact of the matter that the excerpts of one article from today and one from 2 weeks ago and one from 3 months ago put together in sequence all together tell the whole story...there's several reasons why but this is the tell tail reason that defeats your argument hands down:

' the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect trading in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and its shares."

IIf an RD were to occur vs. an RV then in fact it would effect the ISX and it's shares significantly it would mean that the value of your shares held would decrease by a huge number and some shares would be negative in value by a huge number. i.e. I own 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar per share and 1 share of abc co. valued at 10,000 dinar per share if an RD would occur which would wipe the 3 0's out of the dinar my holding of 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar each would not lose nor gain value, however my 1 share of abc co. would now be valued at 10 dinar when I spent 10,000 dinar to get it and 1000 dinar to get the shares of xyz co. yet the true value of each company never went up nor down!

Turkey's stock exchange had to go through all sorts of adjustments to compensate, Iraq's will not change!!

Article Link

there is so much more than just the currency notes themselves in play in this and your arguments and point are true for a country which has no stock exchange that needs to control inflation at levels of 10,000% but they make no sense when Iraq under the currency post Saddam has held a level of inflation of 3-7.1% the latter being where they sit now. Also the currency to facilitate large banking transactions is going to have a 100,000 dinar note which would be used by the banks only from one bank to another for large transactions of trade. One more thing they are not replacing the 50 or 250 dinar notes with a coin they are filling in the gaps of and adding too the current currency which already has 25 and 100 dinar coins by adding lower and middle denominations with coins they are pulling the 25 and 100 coins because they are going to add the Kurdish language to them IMO, then release the other coins as they take in the larger denominations off the streets they will reduce the supply of larger denominations when they get into the banks by 1/3 to add even more value over time after they initially RV...This is not what Turkey did parts are similar but not the same Turkey had 2 different exchange call signs TYL and NTL each one had it's own exchange rate. Iraq will still only have one, IQD and it will have only one exchange rate!!

Central Bank Monetary Policy Education Link

' the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect trading in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and its shares." 

[GT5Junkie]

IIf an RD were to occur vs. an RV then in fact it would effect the ISX and it's shares significantly it would mean that the value of your shares held would decrease by a huge number and some shares would be negative in value by a huge number. i.e. I own 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar per share and 1 share of abc co. valued at 10,000 dinar per share if an RD would occur which would wipe the 3 0's out of the dinar my holding of 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar each would not lose nor gain value, however my 1 share of abc co. would now be valued at 10 dinar when I spent 10,000 dinar to get it and 1000 dinar to get the shares of xyz co. yet the true value of each company never went up nor down!

And the true value of your shares never went up or down either! Do you really not understand that? You spent 11,000 dinar, worth $9.46, and after an RD they're worth 11 dinar, still worth $9.46.

[dinarck]

Stop with your RD theories your polluting the vibes and quite frankly are wrong for doing so, the probability of a RD is so minimal it's not even on the radar...Yes we know what a RD and what a RV is also what an RI is but what you miss is the fact of the matter that the excerpts of one article from today and one from 2 weeks ago and one from 3 months ago put together in sequence all together tell the whole story...there's several reasons why but this is the tell tail reason that defeats your argument hands down:

' the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect trading in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and its shares."

IIf an RD were to occur vs. an RV then in fact it would effect the ISX and it's shares significantly it would mean that the value of your shares held would decrease by a huge number and some shares would be negative in value by a huge number. i.e. I own 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar per share and 1 share of abc co. valued at 10,000 dinar per share if an RD would occur which would wipe the 3 0's out of the dinar my holding of 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar each would not lose nor gain value, however my 1 share of abc co. would now be valued at 10 dinar when I spent 10,000 dinar to get it and 1000 dinar to get the shares of xyz co. yet the true value of each company never went up nor down!

Turkey's stock exchange had to go through all sorts of adjustments to compensate, Iraq's will not change!!

Article Link

there is so much more than just the currency notes themselves in play in this and your arguments and point are true for a country which has no stock exchange that needs to control inflation at levels of 10,000% but they make no sense when Iraq under the currency post Saddam has held a level of inflation of 3-7.1% the latter being where they sit now. Also the currency to facilitate large banking transactions is going to have a 100,000 dinar note which would be used by the banks only from one bank to another for large transactions of trade. One more thing they are not replacing the 50 or 250 dinar notes with a coin they are filling in the gaps of and adding too the current currency which already has 25 and 100 dinar coins by adding lower and middle denominations with coins they are pulling the 25 and 100 coins because they are going to add the Kurdish language to them IMO, then release the other coins as they take in the larger denominations off the streets they will reduce the supply of larger denominations when they get into the banks by 1/3 to add even more value over time after they initially RV...This is not what Turkey did parts are similar but not the same Turkey had 2 different exchange call signs TYL and NTL each one had it's own exchange rate. Iraq will still only have one, IQD and it will have only one exchange rate!!

Central Bank Monetary Policy Education Link

So you are saying a RD would effect the ISX but a 100,000% RV wouldnt? Huh? OK. A RD is value nuetral. So the value of all stocks remains the same. There is no zeros being removed. They are stocks and shares in companies not IQD. You also refuse to accept that the IQD is in a hyperinflated state. You say that inflation is low now and when Sadam was in power but what about in between? Did you happen to notice that it takes 2000 dinar to buy a loaf of bread? Sucessful RDs are done after hyperinflation when inflation is under control. Kind of like now. All it does is wipe out the effects of past hyper inflation which is what every one of these articles are saying they want to do.

[Darin]

You have to view "stocks" as like how you would view the pricing of goods/services. They would adjust accordingly...

The ISX would not really make you rich from a R/V other than the USD you converted to IQD...

Think of Consumer Price Index (CPI)

R/D or R/V - the value of stocks do not alter R/D or R/V... The numerical figures may change, but the value remains....

[detroitjazzman]

One thing that you may not be aware of is that the definition of revaluation is simply the increase in value per currency unit. Turkey performed a redenomination in 2005, yet there are several articles that refer to it as a revaluation, including the IMF:

Turkey revalued its currency by dropping six zeros from the old Lira. The new Turkish Lira (Yeni Türk Lirasi) became the new currency unit of Turkey. LINK

For ordinary Turkish citizens, the biggest indicator of that change was the revaluation of the currency at the start of this year, when one million old lira became one new lira. Link

Along with the new currency, the government introduced two different banknotes, called TRY 100 and TRY 50. After the revaluation of the lira, the Romanian leu became the least valued currency in the world. LINK

Not sure if you are aware of the problem many people have called sleep apnea, but there is a saying - not everyone that snores has sleep apnea but everyone that has sleep apnea snores - the same is true in sorts to this scenario - not all revaluations are redenominations, but all redenominations are revaluations. IMO, the best thing is to not get caught up in the words that are used, but look more at the context because words can have multiple meanings.

Please understand, nobody that holds dinar wants a redenomination to occur, I know it's not what I want them to do. But it is hard to discount the history of all other countries that have gone through this and made a change, along with the statements made by both the CBI and MoF. It's not what we want, but it is what they are saying. Statements like the trillions of dinar becoming billions of dinar, that 25,000 will carry the same value as a 'new' 25 dinar note, etc.

I've read and I'm going to have to dig back through some old news articles, at least I thought what I read was that Iraq did not want to use Turkey's ex ample, as it was against IMF's recommendations and the IMF had to step in and save Turkey's currency. If someone else remembers or has a liknk it would save me some extra reading. thanks Jazz

Edited August 31, 2011 by detroitjazzman

[HopefulTxn]

Stop with your RD theories your polluting the vibes and quite frankly are wrong for doing so, the probability of a RD is so minimal it's not even on the radar...Yes we know what a RD and what a RV is also what an RI is but what you miss is the fact of the matter that the excerpts of one article from today and one from 2 weeks ago and one from 3 months ago put together in sequence all together tell the whole story...there's several reasons why but this is the tell tail reason that defeats your argument hands down:

' the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect trading in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and its shares."

IIf an RD were to occur vs. an RV then in fact it would effect the ISX and it's shares significantly it would mean that the value of your shares held would decrease by a huge number and some shares would be negative in value by a huge number. i.e. I own 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar per share and 1 share of abc co. valued at 10,000 dinar per share if an RD would occur which would wipe the 3 0's out of the dinar my holding of 1000 shares of xyz co. valued at 1 dinar each would not lose nor gain value, however my 1 share of abc co. would now be valued at 10 dinar when I spent 10,000 dinar to get it and 1000 dinar to get the shares of xyz co. yet the true value of each company never went up nor down!

Turkey's stock exchange had to go through all sorts of adjustments to compensate, Iraq's will not change!!

Article Link

there is so much more than just the currency notes themselves in play in this and your arguments and point are true for a country which has no stock exchange that needs to control inflation at levels of 10,000% but they make no sense when Iraq under the currency post Saddam has held a level of inflation of 3-7.1% the latter being where they sit now. Also the currency to facilitate large banking transactions is going to have a 100,000 dinar note which would be used by the banks only from one bank to another for large transactions of trade. One more thing they are not replacing the 50 or 250 dinar notes with a coin they are filling in the gaps of and adding too the current currency which already has 25 and 100 dinar coins by adding lower and middle denominations with coins they are pulling the 25 and 100 coins because they are going to add the Kurdish language to them IMO, then release the other coins as they take in the larger denominations off the streets they will reduce the supply of larger denominations when they get into the banks by 1/3 to add even more value over time after they initially RV...This is not what Turkey did parts are similar but not the same Turkey had 2 different exchange call signs TYL and NTL each one had it's own exchange rate. Iraq will still only have one, IQD and it will have only one exchange rate!!

Central Bank Monetary Policy Education Link

Nice way to TRUNCATE what the actual text stated regarding the ISX, you removed the part that made it hearsay, because it wasn't actually a quote from the president of the ISX:

It is said that the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect trading in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and its shares.

So what his actual statement was is being paraphrased in the link you provided. It's a second hand account (at a minimum) of someone else's statement. Not a real realiable source, IMO.

For all we know what he actually stated is that it won't affect the value of the stockholders portfolios. Guess what, in an RD (lop) it wouldn't.

But if you run across an actual quote from him, it might be more informative.

I think it is hilarious though that you march into a LOP forum and state not to talk about it.

[Darin]

Nice way to TRUNCATE what the actual text stated regarding the ISX, you removed the part that made it hearsay, because it wasn't actually a quote from the president of the ISX:

It is said that the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, earlier, that the deletion of zeros from the Iraqi currency will not affect trading in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and its shares.

So what his actual statement was is being paraphrased in the link you provided. It's a second hand account (at a minimum) of someone else's statement. Not a real realiable source, IMO.

For all we know what he actually stated is that it won't affect the value of the stockholders portfolios. Guess what, in an RD (lop) it wouldn't.

But if you run across an actual quote from him, it might be more informative.

I think it is hilarious though that you march into a LOP forum and state not to talk about it.

And in the event of a R/V, it shouldn't either...

Would the price/value of a can of soda go up just because of a R/V? No...

[zigmeister]

One thing that you may not be aware of is that the definition of revaluation is simply the increase in value per currency unit. Turkey performed a redenomination in 2005, yet there are several articles that refer to it as a revaluation, including the IMF:

Turkey revalued its currency by dropping six zeros from the old Lira. The new Turkish Lira (Yeni Türk Lirasi) became the new currency unit of Turkey. LINK

For ordinary Turkish citizens, the biggest indicator of that change was the revaluation of the currency at the start of this year, when one million old lira became one new lira. Link

Along with the new currency, the government introduced two different banknotes, called TRY 100 and TRY 50. After the revaluation of the lira, the Romanian leu became the least valued currency in the world. LINK

Not sure if you are aware of the problem many people have called sleep apnea, but there is a saying - not everyone that snores has sleep apnea but everyone that has sleep apnea snores - the same is true in sorts to this scenario - not all revaluations are redenominations, but all redenominations are revaluations. IMO, the best thing is to not get caught up in the words that are used, but look more at the context because words can have multiple meanings.

Please understand, nobody that holds dinar wants a redenomination to occur, I know it's not what I want them to do. But it is hard to discount the history of all other countries that have gone through this and made a change, along with the statements made by both the CBI and MoF. It's not what we want, but it is what they are saying. Statements like the trillions of dinar becoming billions of dinar, that 25,000 will carry the same value as a 'new' 25 dinar note, etc.

[/quote

So don't believe everything you read. hmmmmmm.

[dinarck]

One thing that you may not be aware of is that the definition of revaluation is simply the increase in value per currency unit. Turkey performed a redenomination in 2005, yet there are several articles that refer to it as a revaluation, including the IMF:

Turkey revalued its currency by dropping six zeros from the old Lira. The new Turkish Lira (Yeni Türk Lirasi) became the new currency unit of Turkey. LINK

For ordinary Turkish citizens, the biggest indicator of that change was the revaluation of the currency at the start of this year, when one million old lira became one new lira. Link

Along with the new currency, the government introduced two different banknotes, called TRY 100 and TRY 50. After the revaluation of the lira, the Romanian leu became the least valued currency in the world. LINK

Not sure if you are aware of the problem many people have called sleep apnea, but there is a saying - not everyone that snores has sleep apnea but everyone that has sleep apnea snores - the same is true in sorts to this scenario - not all revaluations are redenominations, but all redenominations are revaluations. IMO, the best thing is to not get caught up in the words that are used, but look more at the context because words can have multiple meanings.

Please understand, nobody that holds dinar wants a redenomination to occur, I know it's not what I want them to do. But it is hard to discount the history of all other countries that have gone through this and made a change, along with the statements made by both the CBI and MoF. It's not what we want, but it is what they are saying. Statements like the trillions of dinar becoming billions of dinar, that 25,000 will carry the same value as a 'new' 25 dinar note, etc.

So don't believe everything you read. hmmmmmm.

Unless it says imminet RV huh?

[MrFnHappy]

I've read and I'm going to have to dig back through some old news articles, at least I thought what I read was that Iraq did not want to use Turkey's ex ample, as it was against IMF's recommendations and the IMF had to step in and save Turkey's currency. If someone else remembers or has a liknk it would save me some extra reading. thanks Jazz

Jazz, please don't take this as a personal affront, but I believe you are wasting your time looking for such an article.

Everything I have personally read states the opposite.

Needless to say, if you can find such an article, it would be extremely interesting and add an interesting degree of uncertainty to my current personal conclusions as to the outcome of this speculation.

Edited September 1, 2011 by MrFnHappy