Thoughts on Shabibi audio today...

[Roadrunner]

There has been more than enough lop talk on here in the past week to last a lifetime. It is quite aparrant that we are not all gonna be on the same page till something actually happens. I happen to be in the "no lop" camp. So what? who cares what I think, and does it even matter? No, I don't get a vote and neither do you. Face it, nobody knows for sure ( well maybe Shabs and a few others but he's already said he's not telling) and tempers are beginning to flair, so can we pleassssse talk about something else? There is other news out there and I think all the hide has been beaten off this dead horse. Lets just agree to disagree and wait and see what happens. Then one group of us can look at the other and say, "See, I told ya so". Also if we must talk lop, from here on out could we please place it in the LOP section? Just my thoughts.

RSS

I agree. It has been done to death and none of us are going to change the others mind on the matter. I don't believe in it either but it doesn't have to be a part of every thread.

Roadrunner

Edited April 20, 2011 by Roadrunner

[Gooserider67]

Thanks for the +1 Roadrunner, sorry don't mean to get off topic but if people would stop pinching their nose when they drink the cool aid then they might notice how bad it really taste. but anyway GO RV 4/20/2011 so we all celebrate with a big fat one

[dinarck]

All you lopsters... PLEASE EXPLAIN why they would lop! You keep saying "sorry, that's what's going to happen, no way around it"... but you have YET to give a reason why. Why would they do that? That ultimately allows them to RV at 3 or 4x what they're worth today and that's it... no more increase in value unless the USD continues to fall. Why wouldn't they just RV for a small amount (360:$1)? It would be cheaper and would allow them continued room to grow. Just because we don't believe they will LOP doesn't mean we think we'll be instant millionaires from this investment.

Maybe I'm missing something, but a LOP make ZERO economical sense.

Like I posted yesterday:

Wealth was lost 20 years ago. Didnt matter if you have 1000 dinar ($3200) or 1,000,000 dinar ($3,200,000)... it became near worthless. Let's pretend it went directly to 1170:$1... your poor man now has about $0.86 and your rich man now has $854.70. Does it really matter which person you are? You might be able to pay for one months rent/mortgage if you were the wealthy man... but then you're flat broke. If you were the poor man, you're still poor. So with this example, it's clear that "wealth" was taken away. $3,200,000 will get you far in life, but $854.70 will not. VALUE disappeared! But now that they're in the mist of revaluing their currency once again to HAVE value, everyone is a naysayer. That same man with 1000 dinar (assuming he spent NONE of it over the years and converted it to the new currencies as they came out for a 1:1)... now will have 1 dinar, which will be worth the same as 1000 old dinar... which will be worth the same as $0.86 USD. That same man with 1,000,000 dinar (assuming he spent NONE of it over the years and converted it to the new currencies as they came out for a 1:1)... now will have 1,000 dinar, which will be worth the same as 1,000,000 old dinar... which will be worth the same as $854.70 USD. Do you see where I'm going here? At what point will the "wealth" be given back (the same "wealth" that was once there, but was taken away)?

Obviously the full RI won't happen... but I dont see how $.10 is now out of the question.

I need my coffee

OK

Im not a lopster but I will tell you why they will redenominate. The tens of trillions in circulation. Shabbs himself said so. He was talking about the staggering numbers you hear, the trillions and huge decimals. Then he said we have a plan for this that we are studying, well not studying but have decided and are ready to implement soon. I mean come on. Does he really have to spell it out to you any more. He even said that they will remove zeros and have to "monitor" the exchange rate at the same time. There is no other way to spin that. That is a redenomination. Sorry.

[caz1104]

There has been more than enough lop talk on here in the past week to last a lifetime. It is quite aparrant that we are not all gonna be on the same page till something actually happens. I happen to be in the "no lop" camp. So what? who cares what I think, and does it even matter? No, I don't get a vote and neither do you. Face it, nobody knows for sure ( well maybe Shabs and a few others but he's already said he's not telling) and tempers are beginning to flair, so can we pleassssse talk about something else? There is other news out there and I think all the hide has been beaten off this dead horse. Lets just agree to disagree and wait and see what happens. Then one group of us can look at the other and say, "See, I told ya so". Also if we must talk lop, from here on out could we please place it in the LOP section? Just my thoughts.

RSS

I agree 100%. I don't believe anyone knows what will happen till it happens except for a few chosen few. To say matter of fact either way certainly gets old after awhile...................................................GO RV 2011 BABY!!!!!

[cbisinger]

Well folks in light of the above discussion and the fact that we as investers are now in no better or worse position than we were before his speech and we appear not to have gained anything from what he did say that can be in anyway constreed as a definative answer can I suggest that the whole show was either very well stage managed or quite simply the man is an utter genious to keep everyone completely out guessed.

Personally I doubt it'll be a LOP. Why?

Well in this day and age fiat currency, that is worthless paper backed by nothing of worth and has only the illusion of being money. Its not money at all, its worthless paper and the only thing that gives it any semblence of having value is our belief in it. The paper looks COOL and we "all" trust that it's "worth" the value stated @ par. If it says it's a $100.00 note then it's worth $100.00 and if a IQD 25,000 has that printed on it, its worth IQD 25,000.

A LOP removes the illusiuon, we the masses begin to see it's only worthless paper.

In a LOP every sleeze greedy money grabbing bank in the world would have to tell every "client" who came in to change an IQD 25,000 note that the numbers are wrong, that it's only an illusion, that it's not worth its face value at all, that it's a con, that it's yet another banking scam, sorry sir but its only really a 25 IQD note.

So I Just don't see the "SYSTEM" FROM government to IMF and UN taking that chance of showing us the image of the code running down the walls!

Lastly, the US dollar is dying, government is barelly funded until September and G W Bush told the people that the war wouldn't cost them a penny so how is that going to work if it were a LOP?

It can't LOP

think about it.

Edited April 20, 2011 by cbisinger

[breault]

I'm in total agreement with RSS and Roadrunner on this one. The lop or no lop has caused an inordinate amount of energy, time, and disagreement. let's put this baby to bed now!

[hoosier1470]

their objective is to not only increase their currency, but to make investment in the country more appealing....does anyone think that if they lop this would be the case? I dont really think so! Its all about rebuilding their country, and economy....not screwing foreign investors! Jmo....

[dinarck]

Well folks in light of the above discussion and the fact that we as investers are now in no better or worse position than we were before his speech and we appear not to have gained anything from what he did say that can be in anyway constreed as a definative answer can I suggest that the whole show was either very well stage managed or quite simply the man is an utter genious to keep everyone completely out guessed.

Personally I doubt it'll be a LOP. Why?

Well in this day and age fiat currency, that is worthless paper backed by nothing of worth and has only the illusion of being money. Its not money at all, its worthless paper and the only thing that gives it any semblence of having value is our belief in it. The paper looks COOL and we "all" trust that it's "worth" the value stated @ par. If it says it's a $100.00 note then it's worth $100.00 and if a IQD 25,000 has that printed on it, its worth IQD 25,000.

A LOP removes the illusiuon, we the masses begin to see it's only worthless paper.

In a LOP every sleeze greedy money grabbing bank in the world would have to tell every "client" who came in to change an IQD 25,000 note that the numbers are wrong, that it's only an illusion, that it's not worth its face value at all, that it's a con, that it's yet another banking scam, sorry sir but its only really a 25 IQD note.

So I Just don't see the "SYSTEM" FROM government to IMF and UN taking that chance of showing us the image of the code running down the walls!

Lastly, the US dollar is dying, government is barelly funded until September and G W Bush told the people that the war wouldn't cost them a penny so how is that going to work if it were a LOP?

It can't LOP

think about it.

In my opinion it is fun to think this way. Unfortunately this is not based in fact. I sure as heck know my 25,000 iqd notes arent worth 25,000 k . Every iraqi knows it too.

[AudiS4]

OK

Im not a lopster but I will tell you why they will redenominate. The tens of trillions in circulation. Shabbs himself said so. He was talking about the staggering numbers you hear, the trillions and huge decimals. Then he said we have a plan for this that we are studying, well not studying but have decided and are ready to implement soon. I mean come on. Does he really have to spell it out to you any more. He even said that they will remove zeros and have to "monitor" the exchange rate at the same time. There is no other way to spin that. That is a redenomination. Sorry.

You'll tell me why they will re-denominate? What's your answer? Was it "The tens of trillions in circulation"? That's not an answer. Are the dinars mating and reproducing at unprecedented rates where they'll soon be labeled as a plague? Should we be calling the exterminator? Explain to me why I should care if there is tens of trillions in circulation? Who does it hurt?

Does trillions of dinar (instead of billions) increase the blood pressure or risk of diabetes in every Iraqi?

Does trillions of dinar (instead of billions) contribute to global warming?

Does trillions of dinar (instead of billions) effectively increase the mass of the earth therefore setting it on a new course around the sun that will soon catapult us into the vast reaches of the galaxy?

I hate to be sarcastic, but I feel I need to be with the quality of explanations I'm receiving from people.

Everyone continues to assume an event known as "re-denomination" is a tool within the tool box of the CBI where once used, all your worst nightmares come true. Maybe I need a different analogy...

Let’s say a light bulb goes out (LOP), and it needs to be replaced. You’d use a ladder (re-denomination) to reach that hard to reach place to accomplish the end goal of making light once again (or allowing your economy to proceed with matching notes to the deletion of the zeros from all currency).

Now let’s say a large branch on one of your trees broke loose and needs to be taken down (increase or decrease in exchange rate). You’d use your ladder (re-denomination) to reach that hard to reach place to accomplish the end goal of getting the branch down (or allowing your economy to proceed with matching notes to the newly modified exchange rate).

What I’m trying to get at is that “Re-denominate” does NOT automatically mean lop…just as the use of a ladder does NOT automatically mean burned out light bulb.

[easyrider]

My friend actually asked shabbs personally questions regardng the 3 zeros and met with him ad from his perspective he was telling me it doesnt seem they will LOP just an FYI and this is coming from someone who was actually there at the U.S commerce.

[dinarlady]

its painful to watch these responses, no wonder sonny1 left. pathetic. there not lopping.

[cashin]

Cashin, why would they do that? in theory, that's no different than changing the exchange rate to 360ish dinar:$1... which they could do without re-denominating.

Yes it's an increase, but IMO still doesnt get them the purchasing power they need.

[Dalite]

OK,

Audis4 ,that does make for a very logical scenerio ,but

I am actually boots on the ground over here and I interact with alot Iraqis on a daily basis , they are very well aware of the LOP dropping the 000s .

Also , there are no new lower denoms in circulation .But whatever does happen ,believe me that I should be the first to know because I probably wont see any locals come work .

LOL

Camelspiderman,

What do you pay for a 1/3 liter Coke, What bill do you use to pay, and what kind of change do you get back?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[caz1104]

My friend actually asked shabbs personally questions regardng the 3 zeros and met with him ad from his perspective he was telling me it doesnt seem they will LOP just an FYI and this is coming from someone who was actually there at the U.S commerce.

Please don't tell me ur friend is AC!!lol. No can't be cause AC was with him Switzeland,then with him in Iraq,then with him in Vegas,etc......................................................GO RV 2011 BABY!!!

[cashin]

Dinarlady, audis4

2 main reasons for the lopp

1, it means people in Iraq wont become rich over night and then not want to go to work.

2, means they wont have to pay out too much to all the trillions which are out there abroad like us. if they were to just rv by 3 dollars they would have to pay some time in the future trillions of dollars, by loppin first they just dont. People think lopping is for countries with run away inflation, well its for countries who use to have runaway inflation i:e IRAQ. it gets rid of the zeros they were forced to put on years ago when the currency dropped trough the floor.

ITS SAD BUT THERE U HAVE IT, WE AINT GONNA BE RICH .

APART FROM ALI.

[easyrider]

Please don't tell me ur friend is AC!!lol. No can't be cause AC was with him Switzeland,then with him in Iraq,then with him in Vegas,etc......................................................GO RV 2011 BABY!!!

NO HIS NAME IS JOHN LEISENRING FROM VIRGINIA HE WAS THERE HES THE FIRST PERSON WHO ASKED SHABBS A ? I DONT WANNA KNOW A/C.LOL.

[caz1104]

its painful to watch these responses, no wonder sonny1 left. pathetic. there not lopping.

Environment certainly has changed more to the negative (oops" keepin it real").Positive thoughts produce positive results......................................GO RV 2011 BABY!!!!

NO HIS NAME IS JOHN LEISENRING FROM VIRGINIA HE WAS THERE HES THE FIRST PERSON WHO ASKED SHABBS A ? I DONT WANNA KNOW A/C.LOL.

I feel ya on that lol...........................................................................................GO RV 2011 BABY!!!!!!

[MrRich]

Dinarlady, audis4

2 main reasons for the lopp

1, it means people in Iraq wont become rich over night and then not want to go to work.

2, means they wont have to pay out too much to all the trillions which are out there abroad like us. if they were to just rv by 3 dollars they would have to pay some time in the future trillions of dollars, by loppin first they just dont. People think lopping is for countries with run away inflation, well its for countries who use to have runaway inflation i:e IRAQ. it gets rid of the zeros they were forced to put on years ago when the currency dropped trough the floor.

ITS SAD BUT THERE U HAVE IT, WE AINT GONNA BE RICH .

APART FROM ALI.

People in Iraq won't become rich overnight even with a $3 RV. The RV affects the exchange rate, not the purchasing power within the country. They would only experience the purchasing power increase while traveling abroad or in dealing with imports and exports. They will still have to go to work just like Americans still had to go to work when the dinar went from $3 to a tenth of a penny.

[AudiS4]

Dinarlady, audis4

2 main reasons for the lopp

1, it means people in Iraq wont become rich over night and then not want to go to work.

2, means they wont have to pay out too much to all the trillions which are out there abroad like us. if they were to just rv by 3 dollars they would have to pay some time in the future trillions of dollars, by loppin first they just dont. People think lopping is for countries with run away inflation, well its for countries who use to have runaway inflation i:e IRAQ. it gets rid of the zeros they were forced to put on years ago when the currency dropped trough the floor.

ITS SAD BUT THERE U HAVE IT, WE AINT GONNA BE RICH .

APART FROM ALI.

Mr. Rich is right, these Iraqi's have no dinars sitting around for a rainy day. The PPP is somewhere around $2000 to $3500, about 15 times lower than the closest country in the region. They don't have spare cash.

To your first point on "it wont make them rich over night and then not want to go to work"... think about that for a second... very few of them even HAVE work.

I think you're missing the purpose of this investment. It's the purchasing power of their currency that's lacking in strength. Lopping zeros wont change that. You're correct that after run away inflation, a lop is in order... but this isn't the case for Iraq. THIS is run away inflation:

This ONE note alone surpasses the entire amount of speculated dinar in circulation!

Edited April 20, 2011 by AudiS4

[Darin]

Audi, how much do you think that bill is worth? $20 at the time it was introduced? LOL

[AudiS4]

Probably not even that. Hard to say.

[disciple7]

Audi I like what u have to say and I agree. NO LOP. I too after hearing Shabbs comments thought that we were in a very positive postion as investors. We are in a season of debt free... thank God. P.S. My favorite is actually the AUDI S5!!!

[Buckeye Pilot]

i think they will lopp removing the 3 zeros and then rv to a rate they want.

this will give the buying power they want and also will mean they dont have to pay out much on the dinar abroad.

We will get 3 to 4 times our outlay no more. Huh.....

sorry guys

[ Understands ] English.....

It costs 6.5 Cents to make a Dinar note, Do you actually believe they would lose money on a RV/RI/RD/ ????

Wow.

[AudiS4]

Buckeye, I'm not understanding.

[Buckeye Pilot]

Buckeye, I'm not understanding.

Audi-s Nice car btw, I have a BMW M5. Gosh darn Rocket!!

But.......

Iraq wants to be included with the rest of GCC and WTO, +A free market economy<< (The big one ).

You can NOT do that with a currency that you cant use for International Trade or even to support a free market Economy inside Iraq.

Other Poster said we might get 3-4 times our investment. Unreal to even suggest pure non-sense. A lop would throw Iraq into a toilet spin of debt and Inflation.

Iraq will not be embarrassed on the big stage(Think Kuwait) with Poo paper.

Gotta go to Dinner will fix this more in an hour or so..........