AT THE LAST TRUMPET

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Yeah, I have tried to post videos like that for forever, and it never works for me.  I have other sites where I can do it no problem.  Once I wanted the video on here so bad that I literally typed the address - ha!  Ok, if one of you loves me enough, go to YouTube and upload Jesse Duplantis teaching Close Encounters of the God Kind.  It was a video he did a while ago, but it is entertaining and I think you will enjoy it.  Consider it my birthday present to you, LGD.

He's the short version hun. I will be listening to the longer ones as everything he 

 

just stated is true. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jesse+Duplantis+teaching+Close+Encounters+of+the+God+Kind+

Edited January 25, 2016 by ladyGrace'sDaddy

[Shedagal]

Thank you!!  Enjoy!

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Okay so I'm 12 mins into this and I think everyone could use this. 

 

[George Hayduke]

Okay so I'm 12 mins into this and I think everyone could use this. 

 

 

 

Quick - run as fast as you can from this tool of Satan.

 

Jesse Duplantis is the poster boy of 'False teachers'

 

 

 

Here are some of his more noteworthy blasphemes:

 

He claims he went to Heaven where he supposedly met David, Abraham, the apostle Paul, Jesus Christ, and God.

 

Excerpted from Dean Dahl's Harvest Haven review of Jesse Duplantis’ book, Heaven: Close Encounters of the God Kind.

 

Jesse saw Jesus Christ and God as separate entities, with God appearing as a ball of light energy, although he could see huge hands and feet within the light, and Jesus looking like a man, who could walk in and out of the light energy of God. There was a whooshing sound when Jesus walked out of the light, which came from the power of God. Jesse didn’t see the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit was on the earth.

 

When meeting David, Jesse asked where David got his ideas for his songs. David told him that it was from the Lord, and they both laughed. David said that his songs were better when he “allowed the lordship of God” to come out more than the troubles he wrote about.

 

Duplantis then says he met the apostle Paul:

“Paul asked ‘Jesse, what are they saying about my gospel?’ (He still calls it his gospel.)”

Duplantis told Paul that he thought he was the greatest intellectual mind that was ever drawn to Christianity, for which Paul thanked him, saying that the Lord has been gracious to him.

 

Duplantis next describes seeing the Lord. He says, “Jesus is beautiful – not just handsome, but beautiful. His eyes are like pools of love and He is the color of light.”

 

That’s not what the sinners in Revelation saw in the risen Lord:

Revelation 6:15-17 MKJV

(15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains.

(16) And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

(17) for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

 

And that’s the only way Jesse can see the Lord, given all the lies he is telling in the Name of God.

 

If Duplantis knew the Lord, like he claims, would he not know how the Lord truly is? No, Jesse’s idea of the Lord Jesus Christ is that of a sappy, mild-mannered wuss, the way religion paints Him. If Jesse knew Him on earth and was a true servant of the Lord’s, he would know better.

 

Jesse says that Jesus revealed His heart’s desire to him:

“He asked me to tell others that He’s coming back to earth. He was filled with compassion and was waiting for me to respond to Him.

I said, ‘Lord, I’ll do everything I know to do. I love you with all of my being. But I’ve made some mistakes in my life.’

He said, ‘I don’t know that you did. I washed them away. You’re free.’

‘Thank you!’ I said.”

 

True believers testify of something very different. Isaiah called himself a man of unclean lips; the apostle Paul said that he was a chief sinner. Jesse simply claims that he “made some mistakes.”

 

Duplantis admits that it took many years to speak of his supposed Heavenly experiences and what he says Jesus wanted him to tell others. He had said, however, that he would do everything he could to tell people about the Lord and His coming. If he truly meant this, why didn’t he immediately start talking about what supposedly happened to him?

 

Instead, he waited many years, and eventually wrote a book, for which he charges money, in order to give people this information. Can you imagine the apostle Paul charging people for what the Lord showed him for the salvation of their souls? Jesse doesn’t charge for actual truth, however, but rather for falsehood. Don’t be deceived into buying his goods!

 

When describing the Lord, Duplantis says, “Jesus couldn’t tell me when He is coming. I could see why the Father hadn’t revealed to Jesus when that day of judgement will be. I felt Jesus would have told me if He had known the day, so we could all be prepared. I don’t think He could keep that secret because His love for mankind is so strong.”

 

It is ludicrous to think that the Lord, Who is perfect in all things, would behave in such a manner. As the Lord says, “My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways” (Isaiah 55:8-9)

.

Duplantis claims he then had an appointment to see the Great Throne Room. According to Jesse, “There was a cloud that looked like smoke going up from the Throne and I heard that massive sound, Whoosh! It was power like I’ve never experienced in my life. Then I saw God’s finger barely move and when it moved, an angel that was flying near Him was thrown up against a wall. Bam! It didn’t hurt the angel, but I felt if God just barely moved, a universe could be annihilated.”

 

There is no Scriptural agreement with Duplantis’ description, even though there were prophets, such as Moses, who had seen God. Isaiah was also visited by the Lord, and the kinds of things Duplantis described didn’t happen. And they didn’t occur with any other believers in the Bible. His notions are totally carnal.

 

Throughout the visit to Heaven, Duplantis never called the Lord by His Name, nor did any of the prophets or others that he met. Instead, they simply refer to Him as the great Jehovah God or God. Even in a supposed face-to-face meeting with Jesus, Duplantis simply calls Him God. Yet, in the Bible, Saul immediately called Him Lord, when he met Him on the road to Damascus, and He identified Himself to Saul as “Jesus.”

 

Knowing the Lord Jesus means knowing that the Father and Son are One, not separate entities.

“I and the Father are one!” (John 10:30 MKJV)

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, Who is above all and through all and in you all” (Ephesians 4:5-6 MKJV).

“And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other Name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12 MKJV).

“Remember former things from forever; for I am God, and no other is God, even none like Me” (Isaiah 46:9 MKJV).

“I, I am the LORD, and besides Me there is no savior” (Isaiah 43:11 ESV)

 

Duplantis repeatedly describes family unity, riches, and carnal desires being fulfilled in Heaven. That is why he wants to preach about his so-called trip to Heaven, saying that if people understood what they would get in Heaven, they would be looking for God’s blessings now. In essence, he is only preaching about getting what you want from God in this world, not about serving Him. Serving the Lord is about doing His will, not our own. It’s not about getting what we want.

 

These are just a few of the many examples that show Jesse Duplantis is a false preacher. There is nothing in the book about the cross, sin, obedience, holiness, sanctification, or truly serving the Lord; it is all about sensationalism, with carnal notions and rewards. He minds the things of this world while pretending to serve God:

1 Timothy 6:3-8 MKJV

(3) If anyone teaches otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words (those of our Lord Jesus Christ), and to the doctrine according to godliness,

(4) he is proud, knowing nothing. He is sick concerning doubts and arguments, from which comes envy, strife, evil speakings, evil suspicions,

(5) meddling, of men whose minds have been corrupted and deprived of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness. Withdraw from such.

(6) But godliness with contentment is great gain.

(7) For we brought nothing into the world, and it is clear that we can carry nothing out.

(8) But having food and clothing, we will be content.

 

Dena Dahl http://www.thepathoftruth.com/false-teachers/jesse-duplantis.htm

[George Hayduke]

                               

 

Where to begin…

 

Initially, what began as a simple example refuting ‘Last Days Craziness’ has now turned into at least three areas of Christian commentary that require your patient and measured review.  You may want to put your cell phone down and read this on your PC or lap top…

 

I first became interested in Eschatology, better known as ‘End Times’ or ‘Last Days’ in the mid 60’s before being shipped over to ‘Nam when Melvin Laird spoke on the matter at the church I attended.  He later went on to become the Secretary of Defense under Pres. Nixon.   It was during that speech I learned of the Seven Hills of Rome, Gog and Magog, Meshech and Tubal and of course the supposed evil man incarnate; the Anti-Christ.  That was a very, very long time ago and during that time, along with eschatology, I developed an interest in Geo-politics; a strange soup to be sure but so intertwined with each other it takes a Biblical DNA scientist to differentiate one from the other, not that I am one mind you but I am a bit of a Holy Spirit hound dog to be sure.  Imagine my spiritual delight when in the early internet days ,Pastor Chuck Smith founder of Calvary Chapel, asked me to explain through the internet his ‘Last Days’ theology to Pastors and critics alike and then, twenty years later I find myself standing in ancient Babylon, Petra, Madaba and on the banks of the Euphrates and the Tigris and on top of Mt. Nebo.

 

For sure, God has a curious way of instructing me (you’re not the only one in the ‘hardhead’ club); He has given me His word and then transports me hither and thither to illustrate the lesson.  It’s the ultimate Natural Geographic experience with blessings!

 

And just to make sure you are getting this, I have read just about every book written on the subject by Hagee, Lindsey, Rogers, Hanegraaff, Hocking, Geisler, LeHaye, Jenkins, Van Impe, DeMar, MacArthur and other subject matter experts as well as a long list of modern-day whack jobs and self-proclaimed prophets and apostles and false teachers (Jesse Duplantis comes to mind) touting ‘spiritual insight’ with their traveling road shows and on Youtube.

 

So, yes, I have a little more than a flippant interest in the subject matter and have the street cred to support it. So please try to be sensitive as to how your allegation that I caused the emergence of your ‘wrath’ and the desire to ‘smash’ things appear to me and other Christians and non-Christians alike who are reading this thread.  After all, this is your post, you initiated it and ultimately it is your witness.

 

Now, to the point of your post:

 

How do I know what the point of your post is? 

 

Here it is in your own words: 

·         ‘At the Last Trumpet’

·         ‘ Were being warned’ (tag)

·         ‘…those loud trumpet sounds that have been heard all over the world. I wondered if they maybe could be the seven trumpets in the book of Revelation.’

·         ‘…it hit me like a freight train, their pleadings and warnings from God.’

·         ‘God is getting our attention.’

 

All righty then…

 

In support of those words you posted a couple of vids… why else did you post them?

 

This is where two words come to mind: Claim and presumption.

 

You claim (among other things) as a fact that the videos support your words; ‘God is getting our attention’.

 

Then, when I easily show you how similar videos are made as a hoax you presume that I made that particular video and that I don’t believe the trumpet sounds or any other eerie sounds exist and, to go further you post more videos that explain sounds and noises as reported on the news:  See George, even the Wichita news report they exist.

 

Swoosh… was that a cell phone that just flew by my head…?

 

At least now we are getting to the crux of the matter and in perfect ‘That’s so God like’ fashion this simple revelation will segue perfectly with why I posted the ‘Or Not…’ video.

 

I never said the trumpet sounds don’t exist.

 

I never said that any of the ‘strange’ occurrence’s you or Stearman reported don’t exist.

 

You LGD, presumed I said and believed those phenomena don’t exist.

 

And with regard to Bible study that presumption is called Eisegesis.

 

WHICH

 

Is a big theological word you don’t like that simply means:

 

‘The process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presupposition and agendas ...’

 

Now, if I recall correctly, I believe sometime back Nelg suggested you get a good handbook explaining hermeneutics to assist you with understanding the Bible.  Your response was something along the line of ‘Herman who? I got the Holy Spirit…’  I apologize in advance if it wasn’t you Nelg attempted to assist but nonetheless, that’s how you come across to me.  I would venture to say that between Nelg and me, we represent a hundred years of Holy Spirit led lives and, along with all the blessings and sinning and repenting and scuffed knees that come with a fifty year walk with the Lord, a significant amount of discernment has taken root within our personal sanctification as well.

 

Don’t take our offer of assistance lightly.

 

‘Hermen’ is a tool that the Holy Spirit provides for your better understanding of what text means and not what you want it to mean.  ‘Hermen’ is used to understand all of literature and not just the Bible.  Surprised?  When you read a magazine article and ask your wife, “What the heck does this mean?”  You are employing the tool of hermeneutics.  Looky there, you’re a theologian and you didn’t even know it.

 

The only thing difference between secular literature hermeneutics and Biblical hermeneutics is the subject matter.  And the bottom line with Biblical hermeneutics is that Bible is to be read literally unless the passage is obviously intended to be symbolic or if figures of speech are employed.  In other words, “It is what it is.”

 

I know, you’re a Holy Spirit kind of guy that is critical of seminaries and no doubt, doctrines of men.  Who needs instruction, mentoring orrrrr discipleship when you can step into your prayer closet, dial up the Holy Spirit and receive your very own interpretation of current events insinuated into Biblical scripture right?  I’ve heard it referred to as ‘newspaper theology’; it is never edifying but somewhat interesting much like watching a dog chase his own tail.

 

After all, who needs ‘Hermen’ when the Lord Jesus Christ aka God Almighty tells us: “Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth;  for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.”  John 16:13

 

Truth, truth, truth, Spirit of truth; all truth; ‘The Holy Spirit will disclose to you what is to come’.  Well there you have it, just ask the Holy Spirit what is to come and He will disclose it to you.  It appears that understanding is the foundation of your trumpet revelation and perhaps the foundation of your faith.

 

I hope not because that understanding is an error which will not glorify God nor will it assist the lost as you believe it will.

 

Now, now, now… keep your wrath and desire to smash things in check and read on with a Holy Spirit filled heart.  Ask Him if what I have said and am going to say is in error.

 

Note, Christ said ALL TRUTH, not new truth, different truth, your truth or my truth just ALL TRUTH.  I find it so very comforting to know I have access to ALL of the TRUTH that God ordained to exist simply by my accepting His gift of grace through the Atonement.

 

But what has ‘Hermen’ got to do with understanding ‘truth’ when the Holy Spirit will disclose it to you?

2^nd Timothy 2:15 commands us to, “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.”

 

What? Wait a dad gummed minute here, I just received a word of truth from the Holy Spirit and now I have to handle it correctly?  How will I know?

 

Knock, knock, hellooow, it’s me ‘Hermen’.

 

Rolling up sleeves, still here LGD?  Good, let’s take a look at your introduction:

 

“Recently I was praying and pondering things with the Lord when the Holy Spirit put it upon my heart to look more into those loud trumpet sounds that have been heard all over the world. “

 

So far so good; being in tune with the Lords prodding and instruction is where we should be all of the time.  And since He gives us the ‘desire’ of our hearts you were correct to consider what those loud trumpet sounds are.

 

“I wondered if they maybe could be the seven trumpets in the book of Revelation.”

 

Again, good stuff, looks like the Lord is preparing you for a bible lesson.

 

“As I was going through all the massive accounts and vids I came across this article and it hit me like a freight train, their pleadings and warnings from God”.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa… what happened brother, to reading about the Seven Trumpets in Revelation?  Really? Youtube replaced the Apostle John’s Holy Spirit inspired account while he stood in heaven?  And based on that you conclude and proclaim God is pleading and warning people with trumpet sounds?  As Arron Rogers would say, “You need to double check.”

 

This is where ‘Hermen’ really helps us to understand what the bible says.  Quite simply, the Seven Trumpets in Revelation are trumpets of wrath that have not yet been sounded but when they are sounded they will be heard in Heaven and results manifested on earth.  The recent loud trumpet sounds heard around the world that the Holy Spirit put on your heart to consider are not the Seven Trumpets in Heaven unless of course we've both missed the Rapture bus, leaving us standing in deep Kimchee laden with MSG. 

 

Simple.

 

Now since there are no other New Testament scriptures regarding pre-rapture warning sounds from trumpets heard on earth you are faced with two options:

1.       The Holy Spirit wanted you to consider and come to understand that not all supernatural events or phenomena originate from God and could in fact be evil counterfeit manifestations of Holy miracles or just simply acts of nature that we don’t yet understand.

 

2.       You take out of context trumpet soundings from the Old Testament and  infuse them with a passionate ‘Last Days’ obsession with the end result being ‘error’ and the possibility of being labeled a ‘False Teacher’ such as Jesse Duplantis.  Duplantis and many others like him, too many unfortunately, fail to accurately communicate what God has said in the Bible and instead invent new meaning.  I’m trying to help you avoid the latter.

 

But what about those Old Testament Trumpets?  What about them? There were many ‘Trumpet’ soundings used to communicate with the Israelites.  You don’t get to cherry pick; if you take one to support your ‘Last Days’ theology you have to take them all.  And since we live under the dispensation of Grace and not the Law of Moses we don’t need any of them except as historical examples of God working with the Israelite’s toward the final atonement through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

 

“But what caught my eye most was the 1st Corinthians scripture that tells us at the, “LAST TRUMPET", the rapture would occur.”

 

So true and what a wonderful day it will be.

 

But… as I explained on my previous post, ‘THE LAST TRUMPET’ is not the ‘SEVENTH TRUMPET’.  The seven seals (Revelation 6:1-17, 8:1-5), seven trumpets (Revelation 8:6-13; 11:15-19), and seven bowls/vials (Revelation 16:1-21) are three succeeding series of end-times judgments from God.

 

The judgments get progressively worse and more devastating as the end times progress. The seven seals, trumpets, and bowls are connected to one another.

 

THE LAST TRUMPET is personally sounded by God as the final calling of assembly for all of the saints’ dead or alive to join with Him in Heaven in an event known as the ‘Rapture’. THE RAPTURE will occur prior to the Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls.

 

As I said before, there will be no trumpet warnings prior to the LAST TRUMPET.  Your claim that the trumpet sounds presently heard around the world are warnings and pleadings from God is false and an egregious error that will perpetuate a ‘Last Days’ false teaching.

 

The LAST TRUMPET will sound without warning and the Rapture will occur SUDDENLY.

 

“Folks this is well worth the read and it could change your life.”

 

I hope so…

[George Hayduke]

 

The Sound of Apocalypse:

 

Or not...

I made the video by taking out my iPhone and merely video recorded my balcony view while holding my laptop right behind it, while my laptop played (another video featuring strange sounds) in the background. Took less than a minute to do this. 

I made it because I was surprised at the attention (these videos were) getting, and the friends on my Facebook friends list were voicing their fear, which I think is wrong. I easily found that the Conklin video and I believe the Ukraine video has the exact same audio on them (hello Tropical birds in Conklin), so I decided that I had to share my knowledge. I made the video to show my friends and family how easy it was (literally less than five minutes of my life to make the video and upload it) to make something like that, and how they shouldnt believe everything they see online, and should especially not get fearful. 

 

http://www.snopes.com/photos/supernatural/strangesounds.asp

 

I feel ya, but why all these videos all the sudden (i understand false flags) but why cover this?...Its not with just sounds, its images as well...??

 

 

 

It could be due to many things as of yet not fully identified.  I don't know what it is but I know what it's not.  Please refer to my 'Where to begin' post for my position on the matter - I believe it is just before this one.

[davis411]

well me, i am actually looking forward to it,

this world is going to hell

i will stand up and fight for right, the lord i would be the first in

i understand what will happen when we get to 7

 

i am ready so lets do this and get the show on the road

let the game begin

 

davis

ok so lets get this game going, 

like i said, i look forward to meeting my maker

 

you all better hope i dont get to judge the world,

be a lot of sore souls if i get that job

 

davis out 

[learning all i can]

Hello George Hayduke, you are exactly right. Sadly I must say that I listened to this blasphemous, comedian and lover of everything earthly. He even says in this video that many that will get to heaven will have to get the fruit and smell it as they have not been a good enough christian here on earth.......you know, we have to work and add something else to the work that our Lord Jesus did on the cross because that just wasn't enough. Talk about leading people to hell, well let me just tell ya just listen and follow one breath of this deceivers voice..........hard for me to think anyone that claims to be a child of our Holy God could promote or ask others to listen to such blaphemy against our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.......this is my rant for the day but to all others here, please do not listen to the evils of this man duplantis, your heart will morn that we have such evil walking among us

Barb

[George Hayduke]

You nailed it Barb - blessings to you and your family. 

[MyLadiesDaddy]

George I clearly see that your knowledge of scripture is one to be reckoned with and I wont 

 

presume to debate you. I live by specific philosophies, one being that a mind over educated is

 

incapable of learning anything more. I feel a deep love for you, Nelg, and Shedagal.  And 

 

everyone here and though it seems impossible I try so hard not to offend. I was making a joke 

 

about Herman. I began with a question about the Seven Trumpets that later evolved into a 

 

realization that wasn't what was being heard. I use Scripture that I felt led to by the Holy Spirit 

 

to show that God was,"pleading with all flesh", and that at the last Trumpet the Rapture would 

 

occur. As far as the postings of that preacher, well I'd ask you to notice why I did that. Shedagal 

 

asked me to and so I did, not wanting to offend. I posted the second one to set up what I had 

 

planned to do today. But you beat me to the punch. The first vid was a three minute vid that 

 

he used half the time selling books, and the second one I couldn't get past the 40 minute mark 

 

without turning it off. I was going to use them as a way to explain why one should study the word 

 

of God , rightly dividing it showing thyself approved a workman that needeth not to be ashamed. 

 

Simple things like I don't need an,"appointment", to talk with God. He lives in me. Or how he says 

 

if we don't learn here, we will learn it in heaven. But the word of God teaches me that, "for now we 

 

see through a glass darkly. But then we shall see as we are seen and know as we are known".

 

Now, with respect sir, I've listened to what you said about the Word of God and miracles and how to 

 

interpret the Word my entire life. And I respect your intentions. It seems clear that you are something

 

of a preacher and that with much education. But alas I am forced to ask some simple questions.

 

1) What has that kind of teaching done for the Church of God?

 

2) Where are the great revivals?

 

3)How has that form of teaching stopped the slaughter of millions of our children?

 

4) Where does that form of teaching place us in the grand time line of things?

 

5) If that form of teaching worked then how is it that this nation has become a cesspool of 

 

     the most vilest of sin?

 

6) I mean if the Church of God was doing that which it should be doing then  how the heck did

 

    we become what we've become?  Or is that not the Churches fault?

 

Remember it was a fisherman that lead more than 3000 souls to Christ on his first day of 

 

preaching. And he didn't have any schooling. If the Church today was doing what God wanted 

 

there would be miracles, the blind would see, the lame would walk, the hungry would be fed, the 

 

dead would rise. But I fail to see how Herman or any other gobbledygook nonsense has done anything

 

but make some preachers rich, and caused millions to die lost. 

 

If ya wanna know what the teachings of the Church has done for the world you need look no further

 

than Iraq. Christians being slaughtered by the thousands and what does the Church do about that?

 

You're right I have no faith in the Church of today and I know by the Holy Spirit what Jesus meant 

 

when he said he would, "spew", it from his mouth. 

 

I stand as the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Repent and turn toward our first love. 

 

Forget the doctrines of man, for they have destroyed the greatest nation that ever existed. 

 

I stand by every word I wrote, though I don't discard everything you wrote. I understand that there 

 

is wisdom in knowledge, whether that knowledge be of the Lord or not I leave to the Holy Spirit. 

 

And that, once again, is the difference here. I'm willing to grow. I'm willing to change, especially if 

 

led by the Holy Spirit to do so. If I were to live to be the full 120 God gave us I would only pray one thing.

 

That I grow more with each passing day. That I never become so knowing that I don't need to know more. 

 

So sure of all that when I witness something different I shoot it down as hypercritical. I use such strong 

 

words not to be disrespectful but because I know who the,"greatest of all men to live", was. I know

 

how he lived, how he ate locust and honey every day of his life. Jesus told us by making this proclamation

 

about John the Baptist what he valued in men. And I use such strong words because I know the condition 

 

of the Church today. I know that whatever was taught in Seminary isn't working, and to be frank, it pe's 

 

me off. I know that teaching the way the modern day Church teaches leaves it so messed up that I 

 

can't even talk about my faith at work for fear of being fired. So tell me again, why should I continue to

 

follow that Church? When I know, by the Holy Spirit of God Almighty, that the Last Trumpet is going to 

 

sound one heck of a lot sooner and more SUDDENLY than anyone is willing to admit. 

 

But one thing that I know most importantly is that I didn't attack you or Nelg, nor did I even question 

 

your teachings. It was you guys that felt the need to publicly,"EDUCATE", me in the error of my ways. 

 

And I know that isn't Biblical.

 

Mark 9

  38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

 

    Not because I'm something greater than you or Nelg. If by now you don't realize how much I respect and 

 

admire intelligence then I don't know what to say. I think your a wonderful man and a Brother, and that is 

 

why I got upset. Because I misunderstood your motives. Though I tried to make amends of that error earlier. 

 

I will leave you with one other thing, for me this is an ever changing always flowing life. I will evolve in my 

 

​mental capacity everyday without exception. And therefore I don't want to be misleading as my understanding 

 

 grows. Again Sir with complete respect  

[MyLadiesDaddy]

By the way, George, the emoticon post that you quoted by me wasn't directed at you in 

 

any way. It was for whoever negged my post. 

 

And I don't need to respond to the, crazy preacher vids, as I could never do as good a job 

 

in that endeavor as you did. 

[George Hayduke]

Fair enough - we'll just leave it at that and I pray you continue to grow into a fuller understanding of God's Will in your life and that you and your family also continue to enjoy the blessings He has promised to the faithful.  

 

Please know I'm not ignoring your six questions (they're going into my prayer basket) but I believe God will answer them for you at the appropriate time as He see's fit and by someone else other than me. And, while I appreciate your respect and can understand your stated bias, I don't believe there would be any edifying merit with my attempts to answer your questions.

 

GH

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Fair enough - we'll just leave it at that and I pray you continue to grow into a fuller understanding of God's Will in your life and that you and your family also continue to enjoy the blessings He has promised to the faithful.  

 

Please know I'm not ignoring your six questions (they're going into my prayer basket) but I believe God will answer them for you at the appropriate time as He see's fit and by someone else other than me. And, while I appreciate your respect and can understand your stated bias, I don't believe there would be any edifying merit with my attempts to answer your questions.

 

GH

I'm sorry that you feel that way, because they were so sincere and compelling to me that I awoke 

 

pondering what I asked you. I began wondering if that was truly fair to ask as the world has always 

 

had bad folks and sinful people in it. But then I thought, the Church began after the Resurrection of 

 

Jesus Christ with 12 men. Most of those men were simply fishermen, as you know not a very well respected 

 

career back then. One was a Doctor and one was a tax collector, but as far as I know the rest were

 

simply fisherman. With one major exception, Paul. Who was once Saul. He was a highly educated and

 

much respected Pharisee, and that was the man that Jesus chose to write most of the New Testament. 

 

But then I wondered what made Paul much different than the educated of today, or any of the other

 

men that Christ chose to start the Church age? One thing stands out to me and that was that somehow

 

those men led millions of souls, thousands at a time, to the Lord at a time when there was no internet,

 

no TV. They had to travel thousands of miles by foot and preach for hours, and they didn't even get

 

paid. And to top it all off, they all, to a man, gave there lives for Jesus. I realized then that my questions

 

are very pertinent, and with a man of your intellect, I'm sadden that you wont consider discussing them 

 

here. Pertinent, how? Because of what those men did different than what learned men do today. They

 

were only 12 men and what they did has lasted over 2000 yrs. Imagine what the world would have been

 

like if there were 12,000 men or 120,000 men that did what they did. And what did they do? Exactly

 

what Jesus told them they could do.

 

   Mark 16:15-18

 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

 

But I was once told by a Doctorate of Theology that we don't need miracles today because we 

 

have the word. But that those people didn't have the word and so that was what they needed.

 

Now George I'm just a truck driver but I thought to myself, they didn't have the word      

 

For crying out loud the word was breathing air for them. They had Jesus in the flesh. And that still 

 

doesn't explain the Great Commission, are we now to think that Jesus never meant for us to always 

 

do what he commanded us to do? No! I testify to you that if the learned men of today would truly 

 

seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven then they would know that learning never quits. Didn't Paul

 

learn, and write his learning's , up until his death. We call that the New Testament.  But most

 

importantly, they never forgot the last words of the Savior that they were willing to die for. 

 

I submit to you my Brother take this as I've written to the Lord in prayer, that is the one constant

 

in my recent postings. I'm not asking anyone to believe me, I asking everyone to ask God. Because the

 

Church today is so far from God that the Holy Spirit has told me I must first get them to seek Him.

 

By the Spirit,

 

Know ye not that before the Church age God was the doer of miracles?

 

But once the Church age started God gave that gift to man?

 

It's is very much needed today more than ever.

 

 

Luke 10:17-20

  17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

 

My beloved Brother, again I mean no disrespect. Though I know how this sounds coming from an 

 

uneducated trucker. Please, if you love the Lord, and I know you do, Take these questions to Him. 

 

And he shall guide you into all truth. 

 

 

[Nelg]

George, thanks for the support.  Your post was "spot on" and with more patience than I have shown.  

One of the greatest threats to listening to the voice of God is a rejecting of the diligent and hard work it takes in studying the Scriptures to discover what God has already said and delivered to us through the Scripture. (I used Scripture twice for emphasis.)  

 

Ever since I started participating in the DV Forums there have been individuals bent on bringing in topics to raise controversy: race, gun laws, UFOs, conspiracy theories of all color, flat earth, and biblical topics such as prophecy, the end of the world, or the predictions of a coming RV. Some of them are hilariously wild and funny; even some which deal with biblical topics. 

However, when it comes to biblical topics I become irritated seeing the biblical texts quoted and interpretations given that have no bearing on the topic at hand, yet being used as if they did.  OT passages are used with the same authority as the NT passages. The OT is quoted to give a “clearer” meaning to NT texts when it should be the other way around:  NT interprets the OT.  

The emphasis in many churches has shifted away from careful, disciplined Bible study to more intuitive and internal methods of spiritual formation. It is a dangerous pattern when it comes to divine direction. People who profess to love the Lord treat His truth carelessly, or disregard it altogether. I become irritated seeing the biblical texts quoted and interpretations given that have no bearing on the topic at hand, yet being used as if they did.  I have also seen biblical texts being ripped from their context and made to say what it was never intended to say; or, a particular passage being quoted as a promise to all believers when in reality it may have only been promised to special individuals, aka. Inspiration and revelation of the “word of God.” 

Too many believers today are trying to hear directly from God—whether through an audible voice or a stirring of their spirit. Worse still are the people who legitimize everything from heresy to fundraising schemes to simple personal decisions by asserting the leading of the Lord.

Misinterpretation causes all sorts of problems, ranging from ridiculous errors to dangerous heresies. To protect their position some state, “The Lord told me” as a “sanctified shield” for all sorts of claims. And to undiscerning eyes and ears, it’s generally an effective way to insulate a spurious message from the scrutiny of critics and those who hold a different position. After all, who wants to take sides against the Lord or His messengers?  But believers cannot allow that unsubstantiated claim to disconnect our discernment, or give a free pass to everyone with the temerity to claim they speak for God. Instead, we need to measure every message against the truth of God’s Word.

Have a great day.

[MyLadiesDaddy]

I could care less about creating controversy.

Consider me someone searching for answers that

quite honestly the Church today can't or refuses to give.

My last questions to George could well be tackled by you. Unless your final answer is as stated above. Questioning my very Salvation and essentially saying that without a Higher Education and understanding of the method to interpretation is similar to the Dark Ages when Catholicism wouldn't even allow laymen to own a Bible.

How did twelve uneducated men not only start what is inarguably the greatest faith ever but write the bestselling book of all time? Without Herman,

without Seminary, without Doctorate degrees?

By the standards you've both set the only man

qualified would have been Paul. And whilst he did write most of the New Testament, he most certainly didn't write it all. Yet every one of those"uneducated" fishermens words are 100% in agreement with what Paul wrote.

It's really a simple question.

How is the largest faith ever created by those standards?

[Nelg]

I could care less about creating controversy.

Consider me someone searching for answers that

quite honestly the Church today can't or refuses to give.

My last questions to George could well be tackled by you. Unless your final answer is as stated above. Questioning my very Salvation and essentially saying that without a Higher Education and understanding of the method to interpretation is similar to the Dark Ages when Catholicism wouldn't even allow laymen to own a Bible.

How did twelve uneducated men not only start what is inarguably the greatest faith ever but write the bestselling book of all time? Without Herman,

without Seminary, without Doctorate degrees?

By the standards you've both set the only man

qualified would have been Paul. And whilst he did write most of the New Testament, he most certainly didn't write it all. Yet every one of those"uneducated" fishermens words are 100% in agreement with what Paul wrote.

It's really a simple question.

How is the largest faith ever created by those standards?

First, the 12 apostles had to learn as well.  The spent 3 years with the greatest teacher that ever lived, God in the flesh, Jesus Christ.  Not only did they receive personal teaching from Him, He also gave to these disciples the gift of the Holy Spirit, the promise of the Father, to continue giving them revelation of the word and teaching as to its meaning (John 14:16-20; 14:26; 15:26-27; 16:13-14). A gift that Paul also received.  The agreement between the apostles and Paul are because they had the same teacher, the Spirit of God (Gal 1:11-19).  They needed no hermeneutics, but they did need the revelation and inspiration of the Spirit.  Since full revelation has been given to the writers of the Bible, there is no need for further revelation.  

Today we have the full revelation of the word of God in the book written by men, but Authored by God.  No person today has been given the gift and power of the Spirit to reveal what God wants us to hear, that has already been given (Jude 3).  Today's reader is left to study and discover what God has revealed in His word.  

No one stated that you were in need of "higher" formal education before understanding the word of God.  My earthly father had only an 8th grade education but understood and studied the Bible. He did put in some time learning on his own how to study the Bible.  He was "self-taught."

What we are saying is that ANY PERSON wanting to know the Scripture can learn good methods and have good tools which assist in building your spiritual house.  Only AFTER you have done the work of studying the word is it proper to ask God to assist you in understanding the meaning of what you have studied.  He is not going to give you an understanding of what you have not studied.  

The NTChurch, the Kingdom of God, was not established by any apostle, or any person, but was established by Jesus Christ.  It was not the Catholic Church, or any other human organization.  The church was established on Pentecost by Christ.  It has been in existence since that time.  All human organizations trying to replicate the church has never been able to do so.  REASON:  They left the word of God, the Bible, God's Revelation to us of what He wanted us to do and be in this world.  The gradually took steps that were/are not biblical and moved out of the realm of truth and into the world of "think-so" and personal revelation.   

Your salvation has never been the focus of this discussion.  Only God can know the answer to that.  There are many who are confused about what particular verses mean, how they relate, and what they reveal about ones relationship with God.  We (humans) are not the Judge.  However, we can and must try to guide individuals away from error and come to an understanding of the truth; truths that do not contradict and do not abuse the other Scriptures.  

Have a great day.

[MyLadiesDaddy]

First, the 12 apostles had to learn as well.  The spent 3 years with the greatest teacher that ever lived, God in the flesh, Jesus Christ.  Not only did they receive personal teaching from Him, He also gave to these disciples the gift of the Holy Spirit, the promise of the Father, to continue giving them revelation of the word and teaching as to its meaning (John 14:16-20; 14:26; 15:26-27; 16:13-14). A gift that Paul also received.  The agreement between the apostles and Paul are because they had the same teacher, the Spirit of God (Gal 1:11-19).  They needed no hermeneutics, but they did need the revelation and inspiration of the Spirit.  Since full revelation has been given to the writers of the Bible, there is no need for further revelation.  

Today we have the full revelation of the word of God in the book written by men, but Authored by God.  No person today has been given the gift and power of the Spirit to reveal what God wants us to hear, that has already been given (Jude 3).  Today's reader is left to study and discover what God has revealed in His word.  

No one stated that you were in need of "higher" formal education before understanding the word of God.  My earthly father had only an 8th grade education but understood and studied the Bible. He did put in some time learning on his own how to study the Bible.  He was "self-taught."

What we are saying is that ANY PERSON wanting to know the Scripture can learn good methods and have good tools which assist in building your spiritual house.  Only AFTER you have done the work of studying the word is it proper to ask God to assist you in understanding the meaning of what you have studied.  He is not going to give you an understanding of what you have not studied.  

The NTChurch, the Kingdom of God, was not established by any apostle, or any person, but was established by Jesus Christ.  It was not the Catholic Church, or any other human organization.  The church was established on Pentecost by Christ.  It has been in existence since that time.  All human organizations trying to replicate the church has never been able to do so.  REASON:  They left the word of God, the Bible, God's Revelation to us of what He wanted us to do and be in this world.  The gradually took steps that were/are not biblical and moved out of the realm of truth and into the world of "think-so" and personal revelation.   

Your salvation has never been the focus of this discussion.  Only God can know the answer to that.  There are many who are confused about what particular verses mean, how they relate, and what they reveal about ones relationship with God.  We (humans) are not the Judge.  However, we can and must try to guide individuals away from error and come to an understanding of the truth; truths that do not contradict and do not abuse the other Scriptures.  

Have a great day.

First things first, you need to understand two things.

 

1) I am in no way attempting to change anything that you believe, only to discuss what we

 

     believe. 

 

2) Jesus said," I am the same yesterday, today and forever".  This is not a battle between what you may

 

     perceive to be a lost and misguided soul, and your knowledge. This is a battle for the souls of every single 

 

    person reading these words. And You most certainly need to understand this, every single soul that is a 

 

    member of Dinar Vets is a soul that I not only pray for but that I long for. 

 

 Since full revelation has been given to the writers of the Bible, there is no need for further revelation.

 

Are you freaking kidding me, maybe ya'll should forget Herman for a second and talk to Webster. 

 

 

Full Definition of revelation

1. 1a :  an act of revealing or communicating divine truthb :  something that is revealed by God to humans

2. 2a :  an act of revealing to view or making knownb :  something that is revealed; especially :  an enlightening or astonishing disclosure<shocking revelations>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what is communion with the Holy Spirit if not,"REVELATION"? 

 

  He is not going to give you an understanding of what you have not studied.  

 

At this point I'd like to give you some clarity on Islam. They read one book, they study one thing their 

 

entire lives. They are committed to one thing. And like them so am I. One book, One God, One thing. And that 

 

God is Jesus Christ, for he is Everything. There is nothing else. You gave me an answer and for that I thank 

 

you so much but I must confess that what you said has burned me to the core with sorrow. 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that God Almighty no longer will reveal himself to mankind solely 

 

because we have the Bible? Beyond Amazing. And my ability to comprehend. Is it possible that I'm 

 

listening to something other than the Holy Spirit? You'd of gotten farther with me with that. But to

 

suggest that God no longer speaks to man is to suggest that man is capable of taking that which was 

 

given and using it to the glory of God without error. And that very suggestion is to negate the need

 

for Jesus Christ. For if we could live by the law, then we would have no need for redemption.   

 

Consider the Children of Israel when Moses led them out of Egypt. What amazing signs and wonders 

 

they did see, yet how short a time and  they forgot and made a golden calf whilst God himself was

 

giving Moses the Ten Commandments. 

 

No my friend, We need constant Revelation from God to protect us from the evil souls that care less for

 

the Kingdom of Heaven than their own glory.    

 

  The gradually took steps that were/are not biblical and moved out of the realm of truth and into the world of "think-so" and personal revelation.

 

 What? 

 

 However, we can and must try to guide individuals away from error and come to an understanding of the truth; truths that do not contradict and do not abuse the other Scriptures.  

 

And yet neither of you have clearly shown me how I've use Scriptures to contradict each other.

 

All you've done is used some form of teaching that Jesus never mentioned to tell me that God 

 

 no longer talks to us.   And because I am not conducive nor willing to blindly accept your 

 

teaching you will attack me and say that I'm being belligerent. Maybe even neg me again. But you 

 

will not accept that all I'm doing here is debating what is truth and what is a lie. So I beg you

 

don't play games  anymore call me what you truly think I am, an heretic.   Crucify me if you will.

 

Burn me at the stake, whatever makes you feel better about keeping Jesus in a book and only letting 

 

him out on Sunday. And then only under, Educated Supervision". 

 

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. 

[Fly]

ladyGrace'sDaddy

 

I could care less about creating controversy.

Consider me someone searching for answers that
quite honestly the Church today can't or refuses to give.

They can’t

It's really a simple question.

How is the largest faith ever created by those standards?

 

“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it. (Matt 7:13,14)

 

False teachers and prophets, wolfish men in sheep’s clothing, would gradually build up and form a composite “man of lawlessness.” This human agency of Satan the Devil would cause a rebellion or “apostasy” in the religious organization that claims to be Christian. For this reason, this clerical body of religious leaders would be destined for destruction, so that this composite “man” could rightly be called the “son of destruction.” Of course, the religious organization over which this “man of lawlessness” would assume control would not get God’s favor but would be marked for destruction in His due time. Why?

 

“Because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”—2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

 

Although the “mystery of this lawlessness” was already at work in the days of the apostles, this composite “man of lawlessness” did not take a clearly identifiable form until in the reign of Emperor Constantine the Great in the first quarter of the fourth century C.E. This pagan Pontifex Maximus tried to create a “fusion religion” by making a blend. True Christianity can never blend or fuse with any of the false religions of this world. (2 Corinthians 6:14 through 7:1) However, the religious-political head of the Roman Empire forced the so-called “bishops” that negotiated with him to compromise. So the adulterated Christianity that these “bishops” supervised was merged with the pagan Roman religion, so as to create a “fusion religion” that would be less objectionable, more acceptable to those who were still pagan at heart and who desired to hold onto certain pagan religious ideas and practices of theirs. Like what they were used to in their former pagan religion, they allowed the “bishops” to form a clergy class over them, to govern them as a laity class. This fusion religion became the State religion.

 

In this manner Christendom was founded, and, during the centuries since, it has grown to be what it is today.

 

: )

[MyLadiesDaddy]

ladyGrace'sDaddy

 

 

False teachers and prophets, wolfish men in sheep’s clothing, would gradually build up and form a composite “man of lawlessness.” This human agency of Satan the Devil would cause a rebellion or “apostasy” in the religious organization that claims to be Christian. For this reason, this clerical body of religious leaders would be destined for destruction, so that this composite “man” could rightly be called the “son of destruction.” Of course, the religious organization over which this “man of lawlessness” would assume control would not get God’s favor but would be marked for destruction in His due time. Why?

 

“Because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”—2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

 

Although the “mystery of this lawlessness” was already at work in the days of the apostles, this composite “man of lawlessness” did not take a clearly identifiable form until in the reign of Emperor Constantine the Great in the first quarter of the fourth century C.E. This pagan Pontifex Maximus tried to create a “fusion religion” by making a blend. True Christianity can never blend or fuse with any of the false religions of this world. (2 Corinthians 6:14 through 7:1) However, the religious-political head of the Roman Empire forced the so-called “bishops” that negotiated with him to compromise. So the adulterated Christianity that these “bishops” supervised was merged with the pagan Roman religion, so as to create a “fusion religion” that would be less objectionable, more acceptable to those who were still pagan at heart and who desired to hold onto certain pagan religious ideas and practices of theirs. Like what they were used to in their former pagan religion, they allowed the “bishops” to form a clergy class over them, to govern them as a laity class. This fusion religion became the State religion.

 

In this manner Christendom was founded, and, during the centuries since, it has grown to be what it is today.

 

: )

I'm asking seriously, tell me plainly is this a,"witness", teaching? 

[Fly]

Yes!

[Jim1cor13]

LGD, I will throw in my two cents for what it is worth...just an observation and not a debate, as that is empty.

 

You are at a point in your life at least it appears this way, that you are willing and ready to walk away

from much of what you have been 'taught' over the years from what is called 'church' today.

 

This is one of the things necessary in order to receive any revelation of truth. Why? Because it is the very

manner of teaching in many churches today that will tell you "there is no further revelation". What a nice thing to

tell one who is hungry for spiritual understanding. I have seen people over the years give up because of this

kind of teaching that somehow suggests God is giving no more revelation and understanding...clever way to promote

all the schools of "higher learning". This manner of thought suggests that these people who think this way know most

of what there is to know, which in itself is simply a lie and self deception.

 

Without getting into theology, etc., one thing is required, and that is a willing heart to learn, and the persistence of

asking, seeking and knocking for what is true...not what is 'accepted' as truth. After 30 years of study off and on in my own life,

I came to realize for the most part, people are satisfied to just follow another man, and believe whatever they are told. This

leads to indifference and often a loss of enthusiasm in their relationships with God. Then top it off with someone telling them

there is no further revelation...and you get the point. I have seen some things that helped me to at least see how the game

is played, and I do not participate in it.

 

How anyone can overlook the fact that John stated if everything was written about Christ, the world itself could not contain the books. Does this suggest that the bible is not a complete book? Perhaps, but it does suggest there is so much more details about this Christ, and His actions and words that we simply do NOT have in written word. Maybe more things are written, but they go on some strange "unapproved list" because a man said so. Do not ever allow men to discount your seeking heart, nor allow anyone to try and tell you God has no more revelation to give. Are some things people truly believe absurd? Absolutely, but it often sells books which is a big motive to embellish or mislead or outright lie, happens all the time, yet people still buy the books because it SAYS WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR AND OFTEN IT IS ABOUT NOTHING MORE THAN MONEY TALK OR FEAR. BOTH EXCELLENT MOTIVATORS.

 

Our spiritual perception is often numbed because of spiritual arrogance, and for many, this is revealed when they may feel threatened when someone makes a statement that does not jive with their limited understanding. We all have limited understanding of these matters, but never give up on seeking what is true and valid. Never STOP listening because you think you know something "good enough".

 

The most important part is never allow anything to blind you to things you may have never considered in regards to the God you want to know. No one has Him boxed up...religion may think it does, but that is the ultimate deception. Evangelicalism, catholicism (and whole lot of other 'ism's ) thinks it does but we know better. Many talking heads on TV shows think they have some special revelation of God, but their actions tell the real story that they are serving their own bellies and fleecing the flock while the flock smiles and agrees.

 

If truth is supposed to be a person...then anyone can learn to know that person without any books or theology attached if indeed this person who claimed to be truth is real. Otherwise, we have just another book trying to sway humanity into worshiping who they write about using every manner of fear and threats in order to accomplish this. We have enough of those books of religion. This does not mean we should not read and study, it means truth can grab anyone's heart at any time without all the 'trappings'.

 

We MUST be careful to never try and make God out to be like US, with the same ideas, the same hatred, the same anger, the same monstrous attributes that all flesh has displayed towards each other, because that is not Him...at all. Anytime you hear of anyone trying to convince you that God treats others as men do, walk away from it. it is a lie. Be careful not to attribute your own perceptions about life and world views as if God shares your frustrations and reacts like men do. That would make him out to be a liar.

 

The few things I have learned over the years I consider to be important is treating others as you would have them treat you, and to work diligently at understanding what LOVE means and to follow that...because after all, we are told God is love...so who made him into the beast that so many write books about claiming that he will enjoy wetting His sword in the blood of His creation? MEN. Who is it that will use god to enslave others in a form of religion that demands harming others and make them think they are doing god service? MEN. Who will lie to you time and again in order to keep you from escaping that religious box created for you? MEN.

 

Be very cautious as to who you listen to, and read, because BS can never be unread. I admire your seeking, and honesty in wanting to know more of what is true and just...never lose that, because THAT alone will get you through much in life that all the theological tools in the world could never accomplish...because they are NOT your living source.

 

No matter how I try and communicate this it will likely be misread, misunderstood and pounced upon, but all I am saying...a heart after God will lead you out of your box, and into something that will truly alter the way you perceive life AND other people no matter where they come from. Love has a tendency to do this, but just KNOW that others will often tell you that LOVE is not enough...that also gives you some insight as to their own manner of heart for if love is never enough, then this Christ was a complete failure...and I do not believe God fails at anything, but I may be wrong. It sure seems sometimes He is less than interested, but that is just coming from my own wisdom. He has shown himself to be more than sufficient in my own life, and believe me, I have been through the ringer but I question everything and always will. Our biggest battle is with our own mind, and that will be the truth until the day we die. It is our biggest adversary and it is usually glossed over by those who work hard at programming our mind with mostly nonsense.

 

I do wish you the best, and if nothing I said means anything, that's ok too. We all have a lot to learn as we go through this thing called "life". Much of it is not at all what we think it is, but we sure spend a lot of time convincing ourselves otherwise.

Peace and true joy always

Jim

Edited January 27, 2016 by Jim1cor13

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Thank you my friend. Your words are much more needed at this time than you know. And I shall bring them,"honestly", to the Lord.

[Nelg]

LGD, I will throw in my two cents for what it is worth...just an observation and not a debate, as that is empty.

 

You are at a point in your life at least it appears this way, that you are willing and ready to walk away

from much of what you have been 'taught' over the years from what is called 'church' today.

 

This is one of the things necessary in order to receive any revelation of truth. Why? Because it is the very

manner of teaching in many churches today that will tell you "there is no further revelation". What a nice thing to

tell one who is hungry for spiritual understanding. I have seen people over the years give up because of this

kind of teaching that somehow suggests God is giving no more revelation and understanding...clever way to promote

all the schools of "higher learning". This manner of thought suggests that these people who think this way know most

of what there is to know, which in itself is simply a lie and self deception.

 

Without getting into theology, etc., one thing is required, and that is a willing heart to learn, and the persistence of

asking, seeking and knocking for what is true...not what is 'accepted' as truth. After 30 years of study off and on in my own life,

I came to realize for the most part, people are satisfied to just follow another man, and believe whatever they are told. This

leads to indifference and often a loss of enthusiasm in their relationships with God. Then top it off with someone telling them

there is no further revelation...and you get the point. I have seen some things that helped me to at least see how the game

is played, and I do not participate in it.

 

How anyone can overlook the fact that John stated if everything was written about Christ, the world itself could not contain the books. Does this suggest that the bible is not a complete book? Perhaps, but it does suggest there is so much more details about this Christ, and His actions and words that we simply do NOT have in written word. Maybe more things are written, but they go on some strange "unapproved list" because a man said so. Do not ever allow men to discount your seeking heart, nor allow anyone to try and tell you God has no more revelation to give. Are some things people truly believe absurd? Absolutely, but it often sells books which is a big motive to embellish or mislead or outright lie, happens all the time, yet people still buy the books because it SAYS WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR AND OFTEN IT IS ABOUT NOTHING MORE THAN MONEY TALK OR FEAR. BOTH EXCELLENT MOTIVATORS.

 

Our spiritual perception is often numbed because of spiritual arrogance, and for many, this is revealed when they may feel threatened when someone makes a statement that does not jive with their limited understanding. We all have limited understanding of these matters, but never give up on seeking what is true and valid. Never STOP listening because you think you know something "good enough".

 

The most important part is never allow anything to blind you to things you may have never considered in regards to the God you want to know. No one has Him boxed up...religion may think it does, but that is the ultimate deception. Evangelicalism, catholicism (and whole lot of other 'ism's ) thinks it does but we know better. Many talking heads on TV shows think they have some special revelation of God, but their actions tell the real story that they are serving their own bellies and fleecing the flock while the flock smiles and agrees.

 

If truth is supposed to be a person...then anyone can learn to know that person without any books or theology attached if indeed this person who claimed to be truth is real. Otherwise, we have just another book trying to sway humanity into worshiping who they write about using every manner of fear and threats in order to accomplish this. We have enough of those books of religion. This does not mean we should not read and study, it means truth can grab anyone's heart at any time without all the 'trappings'.

 

We MUST be careful to never try and make God out to be like US, with the same ideas, the same hatred, the same anger, the same monstrous attributes that all flesh has displayed towards each other, because that is not Him...at all. Anytime you hear of anyone trying to convince you that God treats others as men do, walk away from it. it is a lie. Be careful not to attribute your own perceptions about life and world views as if God shares your frustrations and reacts like men do. That would make him out to be a liar.

 

The few things I have learned over the years I consider to be important is treating others as you would have them treat you, and to work diligently at understanding what LOVE means and to follow that...because after all, we are told God is love...so who made him into the beast that so many write books about claiming that he will enjoy wetting His sword in the blood of His creation? MEN. Who is it that will use god to enslave others in a form of religion that demands harming others and make them think they are doing god service? MEN. Who will lie to you time and again in order to keep you from escaping that religious box created for you? MEN.

 

Be very cautious as to who you listen to, and read, because BS can never be unread. I admire your seeking, and honesty in wanting to know more of what is true and just...never lose that, because THAT alone will get you through much in life that all the theological tools in the world could never accomplish...because they are NOT your living source.

 

No matter how I try and communicate this it will likely be misread, misunderstood and pounced upon, but all I am saying...a heart after God will lead you out of your box, and into something that will truly alter the way you perceive life AND other people no matter where they come from. Love has a tendency to do this, but just KNOW that others will often tell you that LOVE is not enough...that also gives you some insight as to their own manner of heart for if love is never enough, then this Christ was a complete failure...and I do not believe God fails at anything, but I may be wrong. It sure seems sometimes He is less than interested, but that is just coming from my own wisdom. He has shown himself to be more than sufficient in my own life, and believe me, I have been through the ringer but I question everything and always will. Our biggest battle is with our own mind, and that will be the truth until the day we die. It is our biggest adversary and it is usually glossed over by those who work hard at programming our mind with mostly nonsense.

 

I do wish you the best, and if nothing I said means anything, that's ok too. We all have a lot to learn as we go through this thing called "life". Much of it is not at all what we think it is, but we sure spend a lot of time convincing ourselves otherwise.

Peace and true joy always

Jim

All believers understand and know that "God is love," and that Jesus is "Truth." But neither of these can be determined without have read and studied the biblical revelation.  I am NOT talking about studying theological books written by man; that makes things even more confused.  I am talking about studying GOD's WORD, the revelation He has given to mankind in the Bible.  Such a belief is NOT limiting God!  Such a view about what was said is reading into what I have written.  Are you looking for points to be critical?  There may be hundreds of books that are inspired revelation from God. However, we only have those in the present form of our Bible.  If you know of any more, you might enlighten us, for no one else knows of them.  I'm not interested in the known gnostic writings, are those written by frauds.  If you are "receiving" new revelation by the Spirit of God, then start writing it down for it is SCRIPTURE.  If it is just the Spirit speaking to you by assisting you in understanding His direction, or by helping you make decision to grow in righteousness, or following the directions (already revealed) of ways to evangelize. If you mean those things, then great; but that is not new revelation from God.  

I speak to God and He speaks to me almost everyday of my life, but He is not giving me new revelation on a par with the Bible.  

One day we may have need of another revelation to be found and brought to mankind, but that day has not come and we are left with the revelation of the BIble.

Now there is not a way in the world that I can know anything about God, His mercy, His grace, His love, or anything else without FIRST have learned about those things from the Bible or a person telling me about those things.  If you are saying that you receive that information from another source, then you are indeed a special person and you do not need ANY written word from God.  

There is noway that I will follow another man or woman.  "Let God be found true and every man a liar."

I think you might "rethink what you have said."  

Edited January 27, 2016 by Nelg

[EagleEye]

I actually jumped into this thread earlier this evening and wrote my response...however, something went wrong and what I had written disappeared. Later as I was walking and my grand-daughter's dog and the Lord prompted me to remember the "kiss" principle in my response. And the Spirit reminded me of one Scripture.... In the Words of Our Lord

 

Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, andone shepherd.

 

In one month I will have walked with the Lord for 46 years....served as a Pastor for over 30 years... done the work of an evangelist, a teacher and even an apostle along the way. But in HIS wisdom the Lord kept me from attending a seminary when I was ready to do so....

 

in the interim, I have learned that far too many believers have a theology that is like "concrete": thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.... as a result that "theology" can become a "stumbling block" that has a negative effect:

 

Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

Luk 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luk 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

 

Mar 9:38  And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

Mar 9:39  But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

Mar 9:40  For he that is not against us is on our part

 

Here's what I'm getting at.... one of the biggest challenges to actually seeing and experiencing a true move of G-d in this generation begins in "dead theology" of a prior one. I have often heard and read how there are no "apostles" since the foundation of the church....the Bible however says something different:

 

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, andcunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, evenChrist:

Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

are we all in unity ?? have we arrived at the stage of a "perfect man" or the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ??? no way...as this very thread makes clear...meanwhile people are quick to judge who is an isn't saved ...who hears from G-D and who doesn't ...etc.....

 

a famous apologist said my research on the Shroud was flawed and I was emotionally involved he then read and quoted a notorious atheist...

a great theologian and a tremendous pastor/teacher actually took the time to read it and both supported me in writing and in their pulpits... do you see what I mean....

 

in South America on the mission field after ministering in the sweltering heat for quite some time...the Lord instructed me to give my "shirt" to a mother whose baby I had prayed for long and hard... I thought that was the craziest thing I had ever heard until the Lord reminded me of Acts 19:11...I obeyed and later learned that the child with a hole in his heart and a non-functional digestive system was healed...and his entire formerly Hindu family got saved.... Have seen the miracles of G-D many times..but some believe they are not for today...

I have not listened to the videos...or followed the "trumpet phenomenon"....I have spoken personally to LGD on several occasions and find him IMHO to be a true brother... as I have others in this forum.... I have agreed with certain things in these types of threads and disagreed with others but I AM NOT THE JUDGE AND NO ONE ELSE HERE IS EITHER....  

 

not sure what happened with the ink there but fixed it now and will leave the rest in red...know this I love the Lord...and I believe LGD does too...I also believe many of you do as well...with that said...IMHO also we ARE in the end times...there WILL be signs in the heavens and on the earth...but if you or I are not eye-witnesses..we are  false witnesses....

Eagle sermon ended

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Yes!

Thank you for your clarity, and your responce

 

LGD, I will throw in my two cents for what it is worth...just an observation and not a debate, as that is empty.

 

You are at a point in your life at least it appears this way, that you are willing and ready to walk away

from much of what you have been 'taught' over the years from what is called 'church' today.

 

This is one of the things necessary in order to receive any revelation of truth. Why? Because it is the very

manner of teaching in many churches today that will tell you "there is no further revelation". What a nice thing to

tell one who is hungry for spiritual understanding. I have seen people over the years give up because of this

kind of teaching that somehow suggests God is giving no more revelation and understanding...clever way to promote

all the schools of "higher learning". This manner of thought suggests that these people who think this way know most

of what there is to know, which in itself is simply a lie and self deception.

 

Without getting into theology, etc., one thing is required, and that is a willing heart to learn, and the persistence of

asking, seeking and knocking for what is true...not what is 'accepted' as truth. After 30 years of study off and on in my own life,

I came to realize for the most part, people are satisfied to just follow another man, and believe whatever they are told. This

leads to indifference and often a loss of enthusiasm in their relationships with God. Then top it off with someone telling them

there is no further revelation...and you get the point. I have seen some things that helped me to at least see how the game

is played, and I do not participate in it.

 

How anyone can overlook the fact that John stated if everything was written about Christ, the world itself could not contain the books. Does this suggest that the bible is not a complete book? Perhaps, but it does suggest there is so much more details about this Christ, and His actions and words that we simply do NOT have in written word. Maybe more things are written, but they go on some strange "unapproved list" because a man said so. Do not ever allow men to discount your seeking heart, nor allow anyone to try and tell you God has no more revelation to give. Are some things people truly believe absurd? Absolutely, but it often sells books which is a big motive to embellish or mislead or outright lie, happens all the time, yet people still buy the books because it SAYS WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR AND OFTEN IT IS ABOUT NOTHING MORE THAN MONEY TALK OR FEAR. BOTH EXCELLENT MOTIVATORS.

 

Our spiritual perception is often numbed because of spiritual arrogance, and for many, this is revealed when they may feel threatened when someone makes a statement that does not jive with their limited understanding. We all have limited understanding of these matters, but never give up on seeking what is true and valid. Never STOP listening because you think you know something "good enough".

 

The most important part is never allow anything to blind you to things you may have never considered in regards to the God you want to know. No one has Him boxed up...religion may think it does, but that is the ultimate deception. Evangelicalism, catholicism (and whole lot of other 'ism's ) thinks it does but we know better. Many talking heads on TV shows think they have some special revelation of God, but their actions tell the real story that they are serving their own bellies and fleecing the flock while the flock smiles and agrees.

 

If truth is supposed to be a person...then anyone can learn to know that person without any books or theology attached if indeed this person who claimed to be truth is real. Otherwise, we have just another book trying to sway humanity into worshiping who they write about using every manner of fear and threats in order to accomplish this. We have enough of those books of religion. This does not mean we should not read and study, it means truth can grab anyone's heart at any time without all the 'trappings'.

 

We MUST be careful to never try and make God out to be like US, with the same ideas, the same hatred, the same anger, the same monstrous attributes that all flesh has displayed towards each other, because that is not Him...at all. Anytime you hear of anyone trying to convince you that God treats others as men do, walk away from it. it is a lie. Be careful not to attribute your own perceptions about life and world views as if God shares your frustrations and reacts like men do. That would make him out to be a liar.

 

The few things I have learned over the years I consider to be important is treating others as you would have them treat you, and to work diligently at understanding what LOVE means and to follow that...because after all, we are told God is love...so who made him into the beast that so many write books about claiming that he will enjoy wetting His sword in the blood of His creation? MEN. Who is it that will use god to enslave others in a form of religion that demands harming others and make them think they are doing god service? MEN. Who will lie to you time and again in order to keep you from escaping that religious box created for you? MEN.

 

Be very cautious as to who you listen to, and read, because BS can never be unread. I admire your seeking, and honesty in wanting to know more of what is true and just...never lose that, because THAT alone will get you through much in life that all the theological tools in the world could never accomplish...because they are NOT your living source.

 

No matter how I try and communicate this it will likely be misread, misunderstood and pounced upon, but all I am saying...a heart after God will lead you out of your box, and into something that will truly alter the way you perceive life AND other people no matter where they come from. Love has a tendency to do this, but just KNOW that others will often tell you that LOVE is not enough...that also gives you some insight as to their own manner of heart for if love is never enough, then this Christ was a complete failure...and I do not believe God fails at anything, but I may be wrong. It sure seems sometimes He is less than interested, but that is just coming from my own wisdom. He has shown himself to be more than sufficient in my own life, and believe me, I have been through the ringer but I question everything and always will. Our biggest battle is with our own mind, and that will be the truth until the day we die. It is our biggest adversary and it is usually glossed over by those who work hard at programming our mind with mostly nonsense.

 

I do wish you the best, and if nothing I said means anything, that's ok too. We all have a lot to learn as we go through this thing called "life". Much of it is not at all what we think it is, but we sure spend a lot of time convincing ourselves otherwise.

Peace and true joy always

Jim

I wanted to add more to my previous comment. It was your postings from the time that you first 

 

arrived at Dinar Vets that began to cause me to see things somewhat differently. The manner in which 

 

you displayed love and patience is like nothing I've ever seen before, and though I didn't always agree 

 

with what you said I simply couldn't argue with your pleasant delivery. Thanks for being who you are and 

 

sharing that with all of us.   

 

All believers understand and know that "God is love," and that Jesus is "Truth." But neither of these can be determined without have read and studied the biblical revelation.  I am NOT talking about studying theological books written by man; that makes things even more confused.  I am talking about studying GOD's WORD, the revelation He has given to mankind in the Bible.  Such a belief is NOT limiting God!  Such a view about what was said is reading into what I have written.  Are you looking for points to be critical?  There may be hundreds of books that are inspired revelation from God. However, we only have those in the present form of our Bible.  If you know of any more, you might enlighten us, for no one else knows of them.  I'm not interested in the known gnostic writings, are those written by frauds.  If you are "receiving" new revelation by the Spirit of God, then start writing it down for it is SCRIPTURE.  If it is just the Spirit speaking to you by assisting you in understanding His direction, or by helping you make decision to grow in righteousness, or following the directions (already revealed) of ways to evangelize. If you mean those things, then great; but that is not new revelation from God.  

I speak to God and He speaks to me almost everyday of my life, but He is not giving me new revelation on a par with the Bible.  

One day we may have need of another revelation to be found and brought to mankind, but that day has not come and we are left with the revelation of the BIble.

Now there is not a way in the world that I can know anything about God, His mercy, His grace, His love, or anything else without FIRST have learned about those things from the Bible or a person telling me about those things.  If you are saying that you receive that information from another source, then you are indeed a special person and you do not need ANY written word from God.  

There is noway that I will follow another man or woman.  "Let God be found true and every man a liar."

I think you might "rethink what you have said."  

I beg your indulgence. But I did no such thing as say that God has given me a revelation that is new 

 

or not in unison with the Holy Word of God. Indeed I thought our discussion was about how I am 

 

interpreting the Word that being right or wrong. I simply used Scripture to verify that which I did claim 

 

the Holy Spirit revealed to me. That is EXACTLY what you just said the Spirit would do. But because you

 

feel that my interpretation is in error you claim that now I'm  revealing something that God never said.

 

Hence, my statement about  

 

Is it possible that I'm 

 

listening to something other than the Holy Spirit? You'd of gotten farther with me with that.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/214532-at-the-last-trumpet/page-3#ixzz3yR7zMAtZ

 

I'd ask you to show me where I've written something in the form of, New Scripture, but you can't.

 

I know, I looked again. But alas I feel all were going to do now is argue semantics, and that servers 

 

neither God nor anyone else here. Therefore I shall take all that you've given , and that George has given 

 

under advisement and in prayer to the Lord. As I've asked you to do many times in multiple threads, take 

 

every question unto the Lord, by no means trust one word that I say. Why should you, when God is there 

 

​anxiously waiting for you to ask Him.  

I actually jumped into this thread earlier this evening and wrote my response...however, something went wrong and what I had written disappeared. Later as I was walking and my grand-daughter's dog and the Lord prompted me to remember the "kiss" principle in my response. And the Spirit reminded me of one Scripture.... In the Words of Our Lord

 

Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, andone shepherd.

 

In one month I will have walked with the Lord for 46 years....served as a Pastor for over 30 years... done the work of an evangelist, a teacher and even an apostle along the way. But in HIS wisdom the Lord kept me from attending a seminary when I was ready to do so....

 

in the interim, I have learned that far too many believers have a theology that is like "concrete": thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.... as a result that "theology" can become a "stumbling block" that has a negative effect:

 

Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

Luk 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luk 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

 

Mar 9:38  And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

Mar 9:39  But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

Mar 9:40  For he that is not against us is on our part

 

Here's what I'm getting at.... one of the biggest challenges to actually seeing and experiencing a true move of G-d in this generation begins in "dead theology" of a prior one. I have often heard and read how there are no "apostles" since the foundation of the church....the Bible however says something different:

 

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, andcunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, evenChrist:

Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

are we all in unity ?? have we arrived at the stage of a "perfect man" or the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ??? no way...as this very thread makes clear...meanwhile people are quick to judge who is an isn't saved ...who hears from G-D and who doesn't ...etc.....

 

a famous apologist said my research on the Shroud was flawed and I was emotionally involved he then read and quoted a notorious atheist...

a great theologian and a tremendous pastor/teacher actually took the time to read it and both supported me in writing and in their pulpits... do you see what I mean....

 

in South America on the mission field after ministering in the sweltering heat for quite some time...the Lord instructed me to give my "shirt" to a mother whose baby I had prayed for long and hard... I thought that was the craziest thing I had ever heard until the Lord reminded me of Acts 19:11...I obeyed and later learned that the child with a hole in his heart and a non-functional digestive system was healed...and his entire formerly Hindu family got saved.... Have seen the miracles of G-D many times..but some believe they are not for today...

I have not listened to the videos...or followed the "trumpet phenomenon"....I have spoken personally to LGD on several occasions and find him IMHO to be a true brother... as I have others in this forum.... I have agreed with certain things in these types of threads and disagreed with others but I AM NOT THE JUDGE AND NO ONE ELSE HERE IS EITHER....  

 

not sure what happened with the ink there but fixed it now and will leave the rest in red...know this I love the Lord...and I believe LGD does too...I also believe many of you do as well...with that said...IMHO also we ARE in the end times...there WILL be signs in the heavens and on the earth...but if you or I are not eye-witnesses..we are  false witnesses....

Eagle sermon ended

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW

 

My dear beloved Brother and friend, I don't think that I've ever received such accolades like the one you 

 

just gave in my entire life.    

 

I am deeply honored and greatly humbled at the same time.

 

 May the Lord Bless you and you'rs with the greatest of love