Is the Earth Flat?

[MyLadiesDaddy]

No way, on a globe earth........can Sarah Palin see Russia from her house.        

 

GO RV, then BV

And there ya have it folks. LOL

[Shabibilicious]

And there ya have it folks. LOL

 

Easy peasy lemon squeezy......and lemons are BALLULAR.    

 

GO RV, then BV 

[Peace]

 

 

There are a few f bombs so if that offends... my fave part is around 12 to  13 mins... cgis and touches on satellites... but i have seen sweet satellite hoax vids...will find

 

 

 

THE TRUTH DOESN'T FEAR AN INVESTIGATION

 

 

 

im bringing over a satellite vid but i have to find it i lost it...in short how can silicon and arsenic and something else (will find) get through temps without turning into a gas... bahahahahaha!

 

sorry i had to leave the thread for a bit life gets wild!

Did you ever ride in an open bedded truck and 60 miles per hour and throw a ball into the air?  The ball will return to the bed of the truck and the truck does not move from under the ball.  The ball has become part of the moving vehicle underneath it.  

Just so, we are part of the vehicle (earth) which is moving underneath us.  Only when we disengage do we experience the movement of the vehicle.  

http://earthsky.org/earth/why-cant-we-feel-earths-spin   

https://www.quora.com/If-the-earth-is-rotating-at-a-high-speed-and-we-jump-up-why-doesnt-the-earth-move-below-us-at-high-speed-1

https://www.quora.com/Does-the-atmosphere-of-the-earth-rotate-with-the-earth-itself-around-its-axis

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/earths-rotation-speed-question.613919/

 

Have a nice ride.  The earth is rotating and we are part of the earth.

 

 

Nope. 

Next time buckeye fans shout out "O" "H"......respond with "O" "V" "I", and they shut right up.      Sorry, chess....couldn't resist.    

 

GO RV, then BV 

 

 

ok but what does that mean so i can say it with CONVICTION??!!!!!!! 

[Peace]

It saddens me to see Christian brethren arguing over something that really doesn't matter in the scheme of things.  I must say if I was a non-believer, I would certainly not be drawn to Christianity based on your bloviating (trying to impress with your interpretation of the Word). Everyone who has a narrative and communicates are "Interpreters". Everyone who is alive! So what do you think even the ministers and preachers are doing? They are interpreting!  I know Christians who read KJV and then read the newer models...which differ... so which is it...i guess we can change the Word. By the way, at least one of you had said several posts ago "this is my last post." who cares! people can't make statements and then change them, guess what people change its what we do. So much for integrity.  LOL Seriously if you are so offended then don't bother upsetting yourself by coming over to the thread, all you have is fingerpointing, and who are you anyway holding yourself on this tower of self righteousness, haughty is what i see. The Word says to go into the world and preach the Gospel.  What is the Gospel?  It is GOOD NEWS (and evidently its also "flat" news and why can't that be good news).  Why don't you concentrate on that. concentrating on the words of the book is exactly what is being done  JMHO in love. What is interesting is Nelg can't seem to bother with the verses that are MANY about the flatness, as with you. cuz all you have is "it doesn't matter" well how then did this flat earth narrative start?! as a thought from GOD. enjoy! 

 

oh and remember that preacher that was having *** sex and smoking meth, and not to mention all those child molestors, EVERYONE should be questioned as with all material, as they should be. THIS IS A FLAT EARTH THREAD, If you have globe verses then bring them over. But go figure talking about verses that mention and allude to flatness, how is that offensive to you?

 

 

The only reason this appears to be "BAD NEWS" is because of COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.

 

 

God made everything in the world including all thoughts, so Why am I and many others capable of asking questions about this topic at this time, its obviously time for it to be reawakened. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Peace

[Peace]

Everyone has a role in this world of duality. We are ALL Gods Creations. 

 

And yes I believe in God. I know that probably really irritates a few of you. Peace

and btw i came to GOD not through the bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Though it has helped.

The bible has literal passages, analogies, metaphors, and parables, its layered and has depth, you think you scratch the surface of something then something in your perception changes and then you can come back to the same passage and it holds and even deeper message for you. Its like pulling back layers on something.

[chess]

...STILL....why so much time, money, and energy put forth to prove the Earth is not a globe.  What is to be gained?

 

Do 'flat' people just not like 'globe' people?  Is this not just a form of racism on a broader scale?

[Nelg]

It saddens me to see Christian brethren arguing over something that really doesn't matter in the scheme of things.  I must say if I was a non-believer, I would certainly not be drawn to Christianity based on your bloviating (trying to impress with your interpretation of the Word).  By the way, at least one of you had said several posts ago "this is my last post."  So much for integrity.  The Word says to go into the world and preach the Gospel.  What is the Gospel?  It is GOOD NEWS.  Why don't you concentrate on that.  JMHO in love.

I know what you mean.  I've stated the same thing when the discussion gets out of hand and someone gets angry.  However, if the discussion is done with respect then both parties can learn and grow.  Presenting an apologetic for ones belief is biblical and needed to "defend" the faith that one holds.  

I am the one who said "this is my last post." on this subject.  I said that because the topic was illogical and stands against reason.  I came back to discuss because there are some individuals who really think the earth is flat and because some had questioned my integrity.  

But I had much rather talk about Christ and salvation.  That is much more important.  And if I gave the impression that I was trying to gloat or impress others with my interpretive skills, then I was wrong.  Please accept my apology.  

I have several pages written about the "firmament," the "expanse of the cosmos," and answer to "sun ray" dilemma which LDG has, and a few more items that have been considered.  But I think I'll put that on "save" and not continue in this discussion.  It was useless anyway when one believes they have an interpretation from God.   

[Shedagal]

Thank you, Nelg. 

[Peace]

 

 

Ok just a normal guy showing that the vacuum is irrelevant when dealing with heat.

 

 

This is important because the NA$A Luciferian Parasites are trying to say when you hit the Thermosphere (HEAT SPHERE) that it is super hot but magically cold because of the ALLEGED vacuum!!!!! 

 

Another NA$A Blunder

 

And this here smarty pants from the Army calculating sat distance. 

[MyLadiesDaddy]

I don't know that I've ever,"flat out", stated something like this but what I'm about to 

 

say was something that the Lord gave me this morning. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Psalm 104:5

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

 

Job 38:4

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

 

Isaiah 48:13

Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together

 

Hebrews 1:10

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

 

So what is the Hebrew and Greek meaning for the word,"foundation"?

 

 

יָסַד verb establish, found, fix (Late Hebrew id., especially Pi`el; Aramaic יְסַד; perhaps originally fix firm or close; Arabic pillow; verb denominative II.fix as a pillow against one; see lean against, recline, Lane²⁹⁴⁰ Saad Genesis 28:11; in Hebrew usually fix firm so as to found) —

 

 

appoint, take counsel, establish, lay the, lay for a foundation, instruct, lay, ordain,

A primitive root; to set (literally or figuratively); intensively, to found; reflexively, to sit down together, i.e. Settle, consult -- appoint, take counsel, establish, (lay the, lay for a) found(-ation), instruct, lay, ordain, set, X sure.

 

 

foundation

plSimple Definition of foundation a usually stone or concrete structure that supports a building from underneath

• http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foundation

•  a body or ground upon which something is built up or overlaid

•  

 

I could stop right here because that word,"FOUNDATION", stands alone and clearly points toward 

 

the earth actually being a footstool. But there is much more to what the Lord told  me this morning.

 

Luke 17:6

And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

 

And what is,"a gain of mustard seed", if not the foundation of a mustard plant. Or any other seed for that matter. 

 

So what is wrong with the Church today? I don't see anyone doing the things that the Apostle's did.

 

I don't know anyone that could walk into St Jude and clean out the entire cancer ward. 

 

Or anyone that has raised someone from the dead. Or anyone that can TRULY speak in tongues,

 

with a literal translation. What is wrong with my Church? How is it that we have become so useless?

 

All the Church does today is raise money. Every once in a while someone does something good,

 

but for the most part it's all about the dollar. Doubt me? Consider the holdings of the Catholic Church

 

and the Church of Jesus Christ Latter day Saints{the Mormons}, or The Baptist convention. Those three

 

sects alone could practically wipe out all hunger in the entire world with there combined wealth. Were

 

talking about trillions of dollars sitting in vaults doing nothing but financing the foundations that were 

 

given the money. Keeping the directors and there staffs employed. What is wrong with us?

 

Do you not know that we are gods, if we be the children of God?

 

   Psalm 82:6

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

 

John 10:34

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

 

And if we are,"gods", how is it that we don't act like God? But rather we act like Satan.

 

We slaughter our own children in the womb and say it okay simply because some fool made it a law.

 

We slaughter each other for a myriad of reasons, justifying ourselves all the day. We lie, we cheat, 

 

we fornicate, we abuse one another as if we have nothing better to do. WHAT IS WRONG WITH US?

 

Revelation 3:15-17

 15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 

 

But what does all this have to do with the subject of this thread, you ask. SIMPLE

 

When God laid the Foundations of the earth he was also laying the Foundation of our faith in him.

 

If we love our lives more that we love our God then we will loose sight of that which was created 

 

by his very hand. Satan knew that, and that's why he created the false religions of the world. Those 

 

being Hermeneutics, Science, Islam, And any other thing that takes our attention off of the glorious 

 

handiwork of God. The Church today is the Church of Laodicea, Not just because of our wealth. 

 

But also because we say," I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing".

 

We have lost sight of that which is most important, we have all gone astray, we have lost our

 

FOUNDATION. 

 

The Lord revealed to me this morning that if we can't even accept the first book of Gods word, how

 

do you think you can do anything for me?

 

500 yrs ago some fool decided to tell a lie that the earth was a freaking ball, and the whole world

 

went along with it. INCLUDING THE CHURCH.

 

Guess what else happened during that time?

 

THE GREAT RENAISSANCE, or as I love to call it, 

 

THE FIRST HIPPY MOVEMENT. Yea the original, Summer of Love. It was a time when bible prophesy

 

was being fulfilled

 

    2 Timothy 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy

 

2 Thessalonians 2 :10

because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

​So what was the consequences of this," RENAISSANCE", period???????????????????

 

  2 Thessalonians 2 :11-12

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

And what is that lie? You guessed it, that this is your home....................

 

 

 

 

When in reality it's more like this

 

 

People, wake up. If you truly want to see God work miracles in your life then you simply

 

must take him at his word. Start with Genesis, forget the lie. Start by just asking God what is 

 

true and what is the lie. I can guarantee you that if you only ask him he will answer you.

 

So what is it that you fear that you can't even ask God a simple question? JUST ASK HIM.

 

  :tiphat:     

 

[chess]

.....more to the point: she ate too many of those green M & M's!!!

[Peace]

...STILL....why so much time, money, and energy put forth to prove the Earth is not a globe.  What is to be gained? Control? Power? If we believe in good then by default we believe in bad otherwise we can't measure good, so at this point we got to look at the worst part of bad (evil) and presume that there are control freaks on that far end, now do i believe that the boots on the grounds of these institutions are aware of the deceit at the top (no i don't) everything is very fragmented and compartmentalized in the military in nasa even in hospitals, the rockets launches from florida and the space command was at houston and all the little contracting folks sprawled out, all a part of the mission to get that lunar landing module on the moon...that gold plated aluminum foil attached to curtains rods through the "thermosphere" and van allen belts...yea i can say, "i work with NA$A" but that is all i can say about the actual farsical moon landing hoax, cuz i was just the contractor after all, i wasn't on the dang shuttle and i sure as heck wasn't part of kubricks prop team ;) ya know what i mean, all im told is to "shut up and color"... and go about my way with my pockets full of taxpayers money, and just continue to do as im told. It makes you consider that in fact there is a dark side, but the good news is that it also confirms the light side (in my worldview)... They own our energy by default, and when we give them our energy the dang machine grows and ends up working against you, cuz we also in turn pay it... good times.

 

Do 'flat' people just not like 'globe' people?  Is this not just a form of racism on a broader scale?    haha of course not. its just people asking questions that they never thought to ask because of the programming that we have been under ever since birth. I think it is important to figure out whether or not we been lied to, and if it is found out that we have been lied to, then i can see that actually uniting people instead of everyone being divided on EVERYTHING, cuz now we are gonna want to know well "who lied to me" and as we follow that reasoning, we or going to see it is these corporations and at their heads satanists and its going to lead us to the vatican and behind the vatican is the jesuits, people will stop giving their dang energy to rituals of the vatican, if it is seen by people that the globe earth has holes in it, then people i believe will have no choice but to follow the trail to the originator...and all these systems we pay into and give our energy to will come tumbling down... just a thought, pretty hard to fathom for most i know...but a thought nonetheless

.....more to the point: she ate too many of those green M & M's!!!

 

i noticed that too and actually asked why am i seeing that m & m, "why is that m & m in my reality right now?"  move the m & m woman

 

its probably some dang cult related thing ...haha

[Peace]

 

so they use satellites in space?!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRm1BgxzFjs

 

some interesting footage of the ice shelf

[Peace]

 

well said

 

here is a comment from one of the youtube commentators:

 

Matt Van 1 month ago

Soooo....pretty much it would seem that it is EXACTLY like God says in the Bible, that He spread the earth out, stretched a measuring line across it, set it's cornerstone, placed it on it's foundation and pillars, established  the bounds of the waters, bowed the heavens over it, set the sun and moon in their respective circuits, and that the earth does not move and is immovable. Maybe this is why God says that all of our worldly wisdom, knowledge, teachings and doctrines of men will come to nothing? Maybe we should put down our science books and pick up a copy of the Bible?

[chess]

WHAT CAUSED (or why?) the perimeter of the "flat" Earth to freeze up;  to build up....as to keep us from falling over?

 

My guess would be the special Flat Earth God.....?....."The All Knowing One"......?

 

IS there ANY substantiated geological history to go along with the forming of the flat Earth?.....as is for global Earth.

[Peace]

 

cgi

WHAT CAUSED (or why?) the perimeter of the "flat" Earth to freeze up;  to build up....as to keep us from falling over?

 

My guess would be the special Flat Earth God.....?....."The All Knowing One"......?

 

IS there ANY substantiated geological history to go along with the forming of the flat Earth?.....as is for global Earth.

 

working on that... but yea whomever the creator of the earth we live on...whether or not you believe in god...something set everything into motion...the first mover...prime mover...why is their ice in the artic...ya know...the same answer...

[Peace]

 

More NA$A lies

[chess]

Arctic/Antarctic ice:   

 

Not really...the angle of our Sun light (or, lack thereof).

 

Angle to Flat Earth not the same.

[Peace]

I don't think i understand the question...

 

when it comes to the light inside of a bowl then the we would see a reflection from the rays shining toward the dome so it would spread the light evenly (just my own quick thought without looking at anything)

 

as far as the suns angle of rays below it we can see hot spots which indicates that it is not far away...not 930000000 miles anyway otherwise the angle would be parallel on one side of the "globe"...

[chess]

....and, altitude....gets chilly up there (or below).

[Nelg]

 

so they use satellites in space?!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRm1BgxzFjs

 

some interesting footage of the ice shelf

https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+atmosphere&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT4dKXhrTKAhXF7SYKHeXbDZcQ7AkIMw&biw=804&bih=455

 

Not ice, but the atmosphere of a global earth.  

 

In any research you do not "prove" something is true or false.  You present evidence for your particular model or conception.  

This is not an ice shelf but the moisture of the atmosphere that surrounds the earth.  

a. No one has seen the "ice shelf" that is suppose to surround the earth.  

b. No one has ever been to the supposed edge of the earth to examine the ice shelf.

c. In the modern world of the 21st Century, no scientist in his right mind would allow a discovery of this magnitude to go unexamined.

:. Since it has never been examined (ice shelf at the edge of the earth), the ice shelf does not exist.  

:. These pictures do not serve as evidence of a "flat earth" nor of any "ice shelf."    

Edited January 18, 2016 by Nelg

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Not ice, but the atmosphere of a global earth.  

 

In any research you do not "prove" something is true or false.  You present evidence for your particular model or conception.  

 

This is not an ice shelf but the moisture of the atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

So following your theory, where's your evidence? I would like you to show me one 

 

thing in the Bible that suggest that the earth is a globe. 

 

 

a. No one has seen the "ice shelf" that is suppose to surround the earth.

Again your theory is flawed. Admiral Byrd certainly claimed to see it, and in 

 

less than two yrs the League of Nations created a treaty that forbade anyone from 

 

going there again, EVER.  

 

b. No one has ever been to the supposed edge of the earth to examine the ice shelf.

 

c. In the modern world of the 21st Century, no scientist in his right mind would allow a discovery of this magnitude to go unexamined.

 

And herein is the issue, isn't it? Are you actually suggesting that the fools who 

 

claim humans will have webbed hands and feet, and fish eyes, and gills develop 

 

because of global warming are ,"IN THEIR RIGHT MIND"? 

 

 

 

:. Since it has never been examined (ice shelf at the edge of the earth), the ice shelf does not exist.

I almost couldn't believe that you even said something like this. By using your standard here

 

where's your proof that Jesus Christ ever lived? Who on earth today has ever seen him?

 

 Who is it that has examined him? Therefore, he must not exist?????????? 

 

:. These pictures do not serve as evidence of a "flat earth" nor of any "ice shelf."    

 

I don't know what these photos say about the Ice Shelf, but one thing that was 

 

perfectly clear in them was that at 72 miles high you still couldn't see a curve of the 

 

earth. 

 

And now in the interest of keeping it civil I wish to ask you,

 

Did you take this to God? 

 

Have you asked him for his opinion on the subject? If for no other reason than

 

to be able to refute the clear biblical evidence being presented here.

 

And if not, why? I sincerely desire an answer to this question. Not that you 

 

owe me any explanation, but that you owe it to yourself to seek out all truth and 

 

the only one that will give that to you is Jesus Christ.    

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by ladyGrace'sDaddy

[Nelg]

Thank you, Nelg. 

Shedagal, I am going to go back on what I said.  There is too much bad, bad, reasoning (or non reasoning) being leveled at what I believe to let it pass.  If I do, these pseudo knowledgeable conspiracy lovers twist, cut, and distort the biblical texts so badly that even to answer them is futile. They are bound to continue this shameful illogical charade until now individuals are beginning to doubt the Word of God!  They quote the biblical text like the citing of passages is the end of the matter.  It isn't.  But some people, taken in by their "spirituality" and "biblical references" are dragged into their false interpretation of Scriptures. 

So, if you do not want to be offended, try to not read these threads.     

[chess]

Why argue??

 

Religion is based upon faith...as it should be.

Science is based upon hard, visible, provable evidence...as it should be.

 

Once again:

 

For those that believe, no explanation is necessary.

For those that don't believe, no explanation is possible.  

[Nelg]

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. Gen 1:6

Expanse, firmament, means a division or physical separation.  The translation “firmament” is not a good rendering for the Hebrew raqia.  It comes out of the  Vulgate firmamentum, which is a literal rendering of the Greek “steroma” that is trying to indicate the Hebrew  meaning of something “made firm’ by a craftsman. 

In Rev. this same phrase becomes “a sea of glass, like crystal: before the throne of God (Rev 4:6). Firmamenum involves the idea of something that s firmly put in place. 

The original idea behind the Hebrew word, raqia (firmament) seems to be the process of beating or stamping out.  In the development of language this has led to two distinct meanings.  If clay in a mould is stamped on it will become compressed – firmer – more solid.  Hence some have supposed that the Hebrews conceived of a solid roof over the sky, a dome to which the stars were affixed.  This misconception is partly due to the Septuagint translation of the word by the Greek word stereoma, which is nearer in meaning to solid than to space or expanse.  But the word raqia was connected with a second and much commoner conception.  If gold or silver was beaten or stamped out it became very thin.  The ancients were in fact very good at this process and specimens of their work show that they used gold leaf down to 1/5000^th of an inch thick.  The word thus acquired the meanings of expanse and of thinness and we find this borne out in related expressions such as the word raq used for Pharaoh’s ‘thin’ cattle and raqiq used for ‘wafers’.  Stamping out (hammering out) leads to spreading out or expansion (cf Isa 42:5; 44:24).  The force of the word in Geneses 1 is clearly that of an expanse, something very thin, which separated the clouds from the oceans.  God called the firmament or expanse ‘heaven’,, a word with, as we have already seen,denotes ‘that which is extended.’

 

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so (Gen 1:7).

Physical separation of the canopy of water vapor and heavy mist that was above the earth from the physical seas and oceans upon the earth.  Morris and Witcomb in The Genesis Flood make a good argument for a canopy of water over the face of the whole earth; not rain clouds (cf. Gen 2:5).   The canopy of water vapor placed into position by God at creation of the earth by His decree.  This is not by the hydrological cycle common today. This vapor canopy stayed in place until the flood of Gen 6.  It was used by God as part of the flood waters that descended from the heavens when judgment came upon the world during the days of Noah.

The “firmament” is not a great vaulted dome in the sky, as some have interpreted it, but is simply the atmospheric expanse established between the waters above

and below. Since God specifically identified it with “heavens,” it also can be understood simply as “space.” Thus, on the second day, God separated the primeval deep into two deeps, with a great space between. The waters below the space retained the elemental earth materials which would be utilized on the following day to form the land and its plant cover. The waters above the firmament had apparently been transformed into the vapor state in order to be separated from the heavier materials and elevated above the atmosphere, where it could serve as a thermal blanket for the earth’s future inhabitants.

Such a vapor canopy would undoubtedly have provided a highly efficient “greenhouse effect,” assuring a perennial spring like climate for the entire earth. Water vapor both shields the earth against harmful radiations from space and also retains and spreads incoming solar heat. A vapor canopy would thus provide an ideal environment for abundant animal and plant life and for longevity and comfort in human life. Water vapor is invisible, and thus would be translucent, allowing the stars to be seen through it. This would not be the case with a liquid water or ice canopy.

 

1:7 above the firmament. The “waters which were above the firmament” are clearly not the clouds or the vapor which now float in the atmosphere. The Hebrew word definitely requires the meaning “above.” Furthermore, the absence of rain (2:5) and the rainbow (9:13) is not only explained but required by a vapor canopy, not by an atmosphere like that of the present. These waters extending far out into space eventually condensed and fell back to the earth at the time of the great deluge, providing the source of the worldwide rainstorm that contributed to the flood. Although the exact extent and structure of this canopy is still being researched by computer simulations, there are no major scientific problems with the concept.

Just as “expanse” or “firmament” is used several ways in Scripture, so is the word for “heaven.”  Context determines which meaning is being used.

o   1^st heaven is the sky where the birds and the clouds are seen.

o   2^nd heaven is used as the place where the stars and galaxies are located, the cosmos.

o   3^rd heaven is the eternal realm where God dwells and is located out of the realm of time, space, and the physical cosmos.  Paul says, “Paradise.”

 

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day (Gen 1:8).

The expanse or firmament that is called heaven here is the place where the clouds and birds fly.   (1^st heaven)

 

 

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so (Gen 1:14-15) .

 

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth (Gen 1:17).

The expanse where the sun, moon, and stars exist, we now call the cosmos.  (2^nd heaven or the expanse where the rest of space, the galaxies, and stars are located.)

 

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven (Gen 1:20).

(1^st heaven)

 

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament  sheweth his handiwork (Ps 19:1).  To the Psalmist, this heaven and declaring the glory of God is the cosmos with all its wonders. It is the

heavens and firmament (2^nd heaven)

 

Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power (Ps150:1).

(3^rd heaven – the realm of God.  This firmament /expanse is the spiritual realm where God dwells.  It is outside the realm of time, space, and the physical worlds.)

 

And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above (Ez 1:22).

Firmament, expanse, or barrier.  This was upon the heads of the living creatures; suggesting a separation between the area above their heads.  It seems to indicate that the “sea of crystal” is some type of separator.  Such a barrier is also depicted in Revelation as a “sea of crystal” or glass (Rev. 4:6)

 

And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies (Ezk 1:23).

 

And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings (Ezk 1:25).

 

And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it (Ezk 1:26).

 

Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne (Ezk 10:1).

 

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever (Dan 12:3).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I ask earlier, what's the problem?  

 

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

 

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

 

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

 

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

 

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

 

These here are verses describing a non spinning earth!

 

Why do these verses indicate that the earth is not spinning?  You make the assumption that “immovable and firm,” “fixed it fast,” etc. means that it cannot spin.  That is supposition and not fact.  The expressions could just as well mean that the earth and our universe are fixed in space. It does not necessarily mean that the earth and our universe cannot be moving.  From what we know from science all of the created time, space, and matter are moving away from each other but still “fixed” in space. 

Science isn't in the business of proving things. Rather, science judges the merits of competing models in terms of their simplicity, clarity, comprehensiveness, and fit to the data.

This is to admit precisely what cosmologists like Alexander Vilenkin have contended all along: that the evidence makes it more likely than not that the universe began to exist. This picture represents our part of the cosmos in which each of the disk-shaped objects is a galaxy like our Milky Way. All of these galaxies are moving relative to each other. Their movement has a very distinct pattern that causes the distance between the galaxies to become greater with every passing day.

When the “big bang” (singularity) occurred some 13.7 billion years ago, all of creation started to move away from each other. 

The answer to the age of the universe is beaming down on us from the sky. We know the universe has been expanding since the Big Bang, so if we can measure its size and its expansion rate, we can extrapolate the age of the universe.

Since you can't extend a ruler out into the stars, all estimations are made by studying objects’ brightness. Cepheid variable stars are a special type of pulsing star whose cycles of intensity and dimness indicate their inherent brightness. When astronomers find Cepheid variable stars in galaxies, they compare how bright they truly are with how faint they appear over distance, and thus determine the distance to those galaxies. It's something like judging the distance to a car on a dark road by gauging the brightness of its headlights.

Before Hubble, astronomers had only been able to narrow the universe’s age down to 10-20 billion years old – not a particularly exact measurement with 10 billion years of leeway. What we do know is that they are much, much, farther away from the earth than the calculated 300 miles!

Hubble performed the definitive study of 31 Cepheid variable stars, helping to determine the current expansion rate and thereby narrow the age of the universe down to the most accurate it's ever been. Its observations of Cepheid variable stars in galaxies like NGC 4603, combined with measurements by other observatories, eventually pinned the age down to 13.7 billion years old, plus or minus a few hundred million years. Hubble’s observations helped change the age of the universe from a vast range of possibilities to the kind of number whose precision required a decimal point.

Since the cosmos has not been around for an infinite number of years, the reversing of the distance and age we can determine the approximate time of the beginning of the cosmos. 

Physical evidence for the expansion of the universe is found in astrophysics.  Prior to 1920s, scientists had always assumed that the universe was stationary and eternal.  In 1917, Albert Einstein made a cosmological application of his newly discovered General Theory of Relativity.  Einstein found that GR would not permit an eternal, static model of the universe. As a result Einstein’s universe was balanced on a razor’s edge, even the transport of matter from one part of the universe to another would cause the universe to implode or to expand.  Then in 1920s two individuals, the Russian mathematician Alexander Friedman and Belgian astronomer Georges Lemaitre were able to formulate independently equations which predicted an expanding universe. Up to this time the idea of the expansion of the universe “was absolutely beyond comprehension.”  In 1929 Edwin Hubble showed that the light from distant galaxies is systematically shifted toward the red end of the spectrum.  This indicated that the light sources were receding in line of sight.  What Hubble had discovered was the expansion of the universe predicted by Friedman and Lemaitre on the basis of Einstein’s GR.  The model does not describe the expansion of the material content of the universe into a preexisting, empty space, but rather the expansion of space itself.

Here is an experiment that will illustrate what is being said. 

Note a simple illustration: Take a balloon and make dots on it to represent the universes and stars.  The balloon represents all of creation including time, space, and matter. When you blow up the balloon the galaxies and universes start moving away from each other yet they are at the same location on balloon.  Our universe is “fixed” in space and time, but it is moving and expanding at incredible speed.

It is interesting that the Bible confirms the expansion of creation thousands of years before the scientific model. 

Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it
And spirit to those who walk in it, (Isa 42:5)

I am the Lord, who makes all things, who stretches out the heavens all alone (Isa 44:24).

 

“It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it.
I stretched out the heavens with My hands
And I ordained all their host. (Isa 45:12)

 

It is He who made the earth by His power,
Who established the world by His wisdom;
And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens (Jer 10:12).

 

It is He who made the earth by His power,
Who established the world by His wisdom,
And by His understanding He stretched out the heavens (Jer 51:15).

 

I appreciate the passages you quoted to justify the “fixed” position of our universe in the cosmos (the entire creation of time, space, and matter). But no one believes that the global earth is “flying around in empty space” or “the earth is a ball floating aimlessly around in a vast emptiness,” which seem to be a mantra of the “flat earth” people.  I don’t believe that for a moment.  Of course I don’t believe that the earth is setting on four pillars in the emptiness of space either.  It reminds me of the question a boy from India ask is father, “What holds the earth up?”  The father answered, “An elephant.”  The boy thought and said, “And what holds the elephant up?”  To which the father replied, “A hugh turtle!”  After a little thought the boy enquired again, “And what holds the turtle up?”  The father, now becoming irritated stated, “It is elephants and turtles all the way down!!!”

That is sort of the logic I see with the idea of “pillars.”  And, yes, I do know that it comes from the Bible, but I also believe it is being misused.  Are the pillars on the ground?  Where did the ground come from?
 

However, there are other passages concerning “judgments” in time and a “final judgment” stating that the earth can be shaken, the stars can fall, the sun and moon be darkened, heaven and earth will pass away, heavenly bodies will be shaken (Mt 24:29 35; 2 Pt 3:7, 10, 12, Is 13:10; 34:4; Joel 2:10, 31; 3:15 to name a few).  To state that they are “fixed and cannot be moved” is a contradiction of the judgment passages, which state that they will be “shaken.”  One needs to take the “fixed” passages and the “shaken” passages into their larger context so that they are in harmony.  And they can be harmonized when used properly and used in their context.

 

And these verses talk about the ends of earth that would suggest it is a plane:

“Four corners of the earth” indicate the four directions: north, south, east, west.  For it to be literal, the earth would have to be squared with four corners, which is literally not the case.  At least that is what is indicated when pictures are shown, and statements are made that the earth is a circle  and not a square!! 

I can see the angels now scratching their head and saying, “Where are the corners?  God said that it had four corners!!  Certainly God was not wrong, but how can a circle have corners?”

 

Isaiah 11:12  
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)  What about those in the middle of the earth? 

Revelation 7:1 
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)  I notice that you did not address the “four winds of the earth.”  Does this mean that there are only “four winds” that blow on our planet?  According to your logic, there are only “four corners of the earth,” therefore there must be only “four winds of the earth.” Your interpretation is not consistent. 

Job 38:13 
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV) Show me how this can be?  If the earth has four corners, where is the ends of the earth?  Is it a tube containing the wicked?  If it is a tube and not a square, then is God contradicting Himself?  Or these expressions metaphors used by God to indicate concepts rather than the literal earth?

Jeremiah 16:19 
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV) Do the Gentiles not live in the middle of the earth?

Daniel 4:11 
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)  If this is literal does it mean that the tree could be seen from one end of the earth to the other?

Matthew 4:8 
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV) 

Again, you are assuming that it is the highest mountain, but that is beside the point.  How did the devil show Jesus ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD?  Were they in existence at the time?  No.  Did Satan mean just the ones that were in existence during Jesus’ day?  Hardly.  All the kingdoms of the world are those in the past and in the future.   So did the devil show Jesus these kingdoms in a vision or physical kingdoms? 

 

There is a difference between the literal and the physical intent of a passage. Any good Bible student knows that!  Can these expressions be used as metaphors to convey meaning rather than a physical description?  Sure they can!  And this is what is being happening in these passages.

 

I suggest a book for you to read.  Very interesting concerning the use of metaphors:  Plowhares & Pruning Hooks: Rethinkinng the Language of Biblical Prophecy and Apocalyptic, D. Brent Sandy, IVP Academic.

 

There are more Nelg but your going into it with globe earth goggles on...sooooooooooooooooooooooo why not look at that? This is in the bible...your source?!  The same could be said about your perspective. Do you have on your Flat Earth glasses?  Hummmmm. 

 

I’m not trying to be caustic or mean about this, but there are principles of interpretation that assist the interpreter in determining how a phrase is being used, what a passage means, and how to comprehend what the writer is trying to convey what God has revealed to him.  That is why one needs to understand hermeneutics or at least do a cursive study of books on how to understand the Bible.  It is essential if you are going to do use the Scripture as evidence, use them properly and no as someone unskilled.