For the Lopsters & Naysayers!.....

[sandstorm]

    My response was in reference to proving others wrong. People from all walks of life "guarantee" things on regular basis with very few correct...........nothing new. Take all of what cartoon characters state(even here) with a grain of salt-peace & prosperity

they better be correct. they guaranteed me a rv of 1. Remember...delete three zeroes? Oh well... the longer they wait.. the more dinar i can buy

Nothing is guaranteed...but we sure can wait and see what happens!...Do we have to be NEGATIVE?...I am not...or I would'nt be in on this!...

how could anyone ever be negative? This is iraq were talking about.

[dontlop]

"actually its the lopsters that solely go off history............................" I agree! In order to be open to all possibilities one must 1st be open minded.-Peace & Prosperity

THEY  LIKE TO FORGET ONE PIECE OF HISTORY .. THE CBI DEMONETIZED THE SWISS DINAR FOR 13 YEARS ,GAVE IT A LEGAL VALUE OF ZERO, THEN THE CBI REMONETIZED IT AND GAVE IT A LEGAL VALUE  150 TIMES STRONGER THAN THE SADDAM DINAR . THEY DO SAY THAT NEVER HAPPENED .. THEY LIKE TO SAY  IT WAS ALWAYS LEGAL TENDER .

 

GO TRY TO  EXCHANGE A PIECE OF DEMONETIZED MONEY FOR FACE VALUE AT THE BANK

 

YA THEY WOULD LIKE TO SIMPLY JUST EXPLAIN THAT AWAY .. SHUFFLE THE DECK AND START OVER AGAIN ..

 

HOW MUCH  PERCENT WOULD IT BE  COMING FROM ZERO  TO ITS VALUE  THEY GAVE THE SWISS DINAR OVER NIGHT RV.

 

YES THE LOPSTERS CANNOT .. AND WILL NOT .. LET THAT COME OFF AS A RV .. THEY GOT EVERY EXCUUSE IN THE BOOK .. EVEN GIVING ILLEGAL  EXCUSES .. AND  TRYING TO JUSTIFY THE ILLEGALITIES IF IT .. LOL

[caz1104]

I've often wondered why one would look for the negative once they HAVE invested. Most investors & investment advisors I know recommend doing research BEFORE investing so as not to have second thoughts. This is the 1st without question venture i've been associated with where trying to prove a negative but supposedly hoping for for a possible possitive is accepted as normal by some-priceless. I can tell ya my buddy's in the investment world shake there heads & laugh when I tell them the stories of DV.-Peace & Prosperity

[gatoraces]

to me, it just seems way more likely to possibly double or triple the investment, than to turn $1100 into $3 million.   i would think that is obvious.

[4aprofit]

Why spend the time to even type one word about negative things that CANNOT happen, if one is NOT invested in this?...lol...

[caz1104]

 

they better be correct. they guaranteed me a rv of 1. Remember...delete three zeroes? Oh well... the longer they wait.. the more dinar i can buy

how could anyone ever be negative? This is iraq were talking about.

 "they better be correct" WOW are you the same with all other investments or just this one? And do you take advise or guarantees from all cartoon characters? smh If people don't realize this most important FACT then they deserve to lose whatever they might imo. Does Psychic Readers ring a bell-Peace & Prosperity

By the way Good Luck in all your future ventures

Edited March 20, 2013 by caz1104

[gatoraces]

caz, turn on your sarcasm meter

[caz1104]

 

caz, turn on your sarcasm meter

 LOL......sorry. Sometimes I just gotta wonder............nevermind

[gatoraces]

  LOL......sorry. Sometimes I just gotta wonder............nevermind

i understand completely

[Darin]

If the CBI intends to R/D, I always wonder what will happen with the speculated hard cash held by foreigners. I understand that it is a neutral event, but, still the idea and question remains that if you put an expiration date on the hard cash it will likely make its way back to the CBI for the USD or other foreign currency it is valued at.

 

The high amount of speculation may actually hurt the CBI as their reserves may take a sudden & quick hit.. Obviously, without question, a R/V of any significant magnitude will only raise that issue at hand.

With that said, I sometimes speculate the "removal of 3 zeros" article is truly propaganda in hopes to suppress speculation and possibly draw in foreign held dinars over time.

 

We may see what M0, M1, and M2 currently are according to the CBI, but I don't believe we have the ability to calculate what is held by foreign speculation. Some have held this dinar when it was holding less value and even exchanging it upon a R/D would still see gains.

We know we have seen speculation and dinar holders in Canada, U.S., Mexico, Europe, Australia, Kuwait, Egypt, Iran, Syria, and other countries. We have seen articles of Egypt adding dinars to their reserves to diversify their holdings. Every day that we continue forward, that speculation and amount being held on a foreign basis may go up but may also go down. But one thing is for sure, an official R/D will push those who speculate to exchange out and I doubt many of them would be exchanging for the new re-denominated dinars as they would want to exchange for other currencies.

 

So, a R/D will cause a run on the bank(s). It is a price that the CBI will have to pay. However, a R/V will cause a run on the banks (of any significant magnitude) which may also cause a run on the banks and have an even more severe impact.

So the CBI is left with a few option(s):

1) Do their proclaimed LOP - and expect a large amount of foreign held dinars to come back to them in exchange for their other currencies such as USD, Euros, etc. Directly affecting their reserves appropriately

2) Gradually raise the value over time to slowly draw in the foreign held dinars

3) Find a way to raise the value & maintain foreign speculation or foreign speculators or entities to remain holding the currency

 

A re-denomination is a pure possibility and something we should prepare ourselves for. However, I laugh at how the CBI is proud of their historically high cash reserves when in reality a R/D will reduce that amount significantly as foreign speculators, entities, and banks exchange their lopped notes for new currency which most likely won't be the newly re-denominated dinars. They will want other currencies.

 

The CBI did not like it when large amount of cash (dollars) were leaving the country to countries like Syria and Iran as it was an issue, the R/D will have that type of impact but on a larger scale.

The longer the delay, the more potential for a more significant severe impact. Which leads me to believe that they will never R/D until they not only suppress outside speculation, but slowly draw in those notes held foreign as well. I bet those removal of 3 zero articles do a decent job of that to some extent.

[4aprofit]

Generals once knew that after a war, the vanquished must get their economy up and running again, and to accomplish that, the first order of business must be the establishment of a sound currency.1

—Steve H. Hanke, Senior Fellow, Cato Institute

[umbertino]

Quote

These Lopsters & Naysayers have nothing on me...until the final bell has been rung as per the finaility of this thing...I'm in till it's over, whether good or bad...and it aint over yet...they feed on the gullible...truly sad....

End Quote

You say they ( LOPsters) feed on the gullible...Maybe so........But it's in everybody's face here ( and on most Dinar Forums) that their "feeding on the gullible" ( if at all) is just a super-tiny fraction of the mega feeding on the gullible tirelessly operated by pumpers & hypers 24/7 every day of every year since the beginning of this IQD adventure / nightmare.

 

Edited March 20, 2013 by umbertino

[4aprofit]

True. there are pumpers ans dumpers out there...But, why is anyone here for the most part...unless they believe in this...at least to some degree..can we not all agree on that one?...

Edited March 20, 2013 by 4aprofit

[gatoraces]

Belief? No. outside chance or hope? Sure. But is smells more desperate than that

[makecents]

So, we can conclude the following countries likely hold dinar or speculate in dinar

Egypt (has some in their reserves)

Israel

Iran

Syria

Kuwait

Speculation in European nations

Speculation in N. American nations (Canada, U.S., and Mexico)

And I think I've seen people post that they're from Australia here.

If you mean people in those countries, it could be (buying in 2003 WAS a good deal, but now, well long ago, that the economy/currency is stabilized that opportunity is long over). If you mean the central banks of those countries, no way. Note wrt the articles on Egypt. Egypt floats their currency, but with a tight grip (they intervene in markets often to keep the rate in the range they want). So keeping other currencies on hand to buy and sell to achieve that is pretty normal.

 

Interesting to think about... I would also imagine every day more and more may leave their country. Is Iraq going to shut the door and R/D? (I doubt it..)

I'm sure they would keep their doors quite open in a R/D, but one would have to imagine that their reserves are going to take a pretty big HIT.

No, its no hit at all as the money supply goes down in exact proportion to how far reserves go down. It would be no different than the normal churn that the auctions are part of.  They auction off about $45B USD every year, but still maintain their reserves. So speculators giving up and exchanging back once an RD is in progress is not a problem.

 

Imagine this, for all the speculators who go to banks, they exchange for cash. The IQD makes its way to the central bank. The central bank adds the dinars to their assets allowing them to increase (infuse) cash into the society. Which may boost economies on a global scale. But that is outside the box thinking..

Dinars held by speculators outside of Iraq is not nearly as big of a problem for an RV as are imports by Iraq (of course the gurus never bring this up, its always about fantasy schemes for the Fed to keep the dinars and get oil at below market rates etc). Also no central bank would hold dinars unless there is a demand for dinars and that won't happen unless Iraq becomes an exporter of a lot of stuff other than oil and while that may happen, it will take a long time.

Edited March 20, 2013 by makecents

[hame55]

to me, it just seems way more likely to possibly double or triple the investment, than to turn $1100 into $3 million.   i would think that is obvious.

I'm hoping for 10 or 25 cents to the dollar. That would be a good investment, and within the realm of possibility.

[gatoraces]

I'm hoping for 10 or 25 cents to the dollar. That would be a good investment, and within the realm of possibility.

That would be an insane investment, and retire my family permanently

[boomer113189]

lol posting all the countries that have bought the dinar. thats does not mean an RV it just means there speculating too just like everyone here.   the new Iraqi Dinar currency has sparked a Multi-million dollar industry in selling dinars to speculators. These so called "money service" companies will sell Dinar to speculators at an inflated price and push the idea that the dinar will "RV" or be revalued to greatly increase the exchange rate against the dollar

[4aprofit]

Yeah, but I better hang in there with them thar dinars though'...cause I just bought sumtin today'...whereby I lost half my buying power....cause it was half that much last year....my wallet dont lie!...is that considered being a DV/Devaluation of the U.S. Dollar or what?....So why fret over them dinaro's havin an RV...they've already had their DV...and hangin tight!

P.S....Better check them thar pockets before you cry anymore over the dinaro'...The dollar is headed DOWN..while the poor old, terrible dinaro's are holding their GROUND!!!....LOLOLOLOL...

[Darin]

lol posting all the countries that have bought the dinar. thats does not mean an RV it just means there speculating too just like everyone here.   the new Iraqi Dinar currency has sparked a Multi-million dollar industry in selling dinars to speculators. These so called "money service" companies will sell Dinar to speculators at an inflated price and push the idea that the dinar will "RV" or be revalued to greatly increase the exchange rate against the dollar

I guess you failed to understand the point. The point is quite simple, speculation is on a more global basis. Out of the huge money supply of dinars, many speculators are scattered across the globe.. So, upon a re-denomination and each and every note that we hold suddenly gets an expiration date, we will be forced to exchange them. Do you think many speculators will be so quick to exchange for the newly re-denominated currency? Doubtful - I know I would want USD for my IQD that I hold.

I imagine a bulk of the speculators would do the same.. Thus, this would reduce the foreign cash reserves of the CBI by the equivalent of what is held by foreigners. We will want US dollars, Europeans will want GBP, Euros, and possibly US dollars, Kuwait may want KWD, so on and so forth.

 

When Iran was creating so much demand for the dollar with their sanctioned country and large sums of cash were leaving the country, the CBI didn't like that. In fact, I think at its worst, is when the CBI adjusted 4 pips from 1170 to 1164.

By no means, am I saying that a R/D is out of the question, I am simply putting out a disadvantage to it as to what it would do to their reserves. Now any significant R/V would have the same effect, but obviously worse.

Delaying the plan may cause even MORE problems. So, the CBI is backed into a corner, take action and let the plan move forward or find a different solution.

If you mean people in those countries, it could be (buying in 2003 WAS a good deal, but now, well long ago, that the economy/currency is stabilized that opportunity is long over). If you mean the central banks of those countries, no way. Note wrt the articles on Egypt. Egypt floats their currency, but with a tight grip (they intervene in markets often to keep the rate in the range they want). So keeping other currencies on hand to buy and sell to achieve that is pretty normal.

 

No, its no hit at all as the money supply goes down in exact proportion to how far reserves go down. It would be no different than the normal churn that the auctions are part of.  They auction off about $45B USD every year, but still maintain their reserves. So speculators giving up and exchanging back once an RD is in progress is not a problem.

 

Dinars held by speculators outside of Iraq is not nearly as big of a problem for an RV as are imports by Iraq (of course the gurus never bring this up, its always about fantasy schemes for the Fed to keep the dinars and get oil at below market rates etc). Also no central bank would hold dinars unless there is a demand for dinars and that won't happen unless Iraq becomes an exporter of a lot of stuff other than oil and while that may happen, it will take a long time.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, people may have bought it up than and saw good value out of it, what is to change now since the value could still go up. Hard to predict the future. I was mostly stating individual speculators held dinar. However, we do see that the Egyptian bank has acquired dinars for their reserves.

 

They may auction off $45 billion USD per year, but that is for goods and services they import. If you are trying to say that if every speculator outside of Iraq including individuals, banks, exchange stations, and currency traders suddenly sold their dinar back to the CBI for USD or other major currencies that it wouldn't have an impact on the CBI? You would have to be delusional. The CBI would suddenly have large amounts of currency to either store in vaults or simply destroy while they would have to reduce their reserves appropriately. Granted their liabilities are reduced, their liquid assets are reduced proportionately. The reserves are used for importing of goods/services.. Now their liquid assets will be reduced thus creating concern on spending for imported goods/services

 

Central banks hold dinars? I believe we saw an article posted where the Egyptian bank has some dinars in their reserves. I would imagine neighboring countries may hold dinars to help as a service to their neighboring country as it may be a higher demand for that region. As per the US, there really would be no reason to have a high amount other than to provide a service to those who travel to that region for business/tourism.

[4aprofit]

Blah, blah, blah...we will see?.....

[sandyf]

I guess you failed to understand the point. The point is quite simple, speculation is on a more global basis. Out of the huge money supply of dinars, many speculators are scattered across the globe.. So, upon a re-denomination and each and every note that we hold suddenly gets an expiration date, we will be forced to exchange them. Do you think many speculators will be so quick to exchange for the newly re-denominated currency? Doubtful - I know I would want USD for my IQD that I hold.

I imagine a bulk of the speculators would do the same.. Thus, this would reduce the foreign cash reserves of the CBI by the equivalent of what is held by foreigners. We will want US dollars, Europeans will want GBP, Euros, and possibly US dollars, Kuwait may want KWD, so on and so forth.

 

What many fail to realise is that in the event of an RD the IQD would cease to be a recognised currency. The Technical Guidelines will spell out the arrangements for exchange. If they were to follow the Zambian template then there will be no facility for exchange outside the country.

You may have extreme difficulty getting anything for the IQD that you hold. If speculators are unable to exchange then that could only be of benefit to the CBI.

 

Have to be open minded to the worst case scenario.

[4aprofit]

Many were open minded when first getting invested in this 10 years ago when the war started.....with even long term gains up to now....and trillions are now moving into Iraq...so where's the worry now...if you have'nt lost anything yet, what's the gripe now?...lol...

[makecents]

They may auction off $45 billion USD per year, but that is for goods and services they import. If you are trying to say that if every speculator outside of Iraq including individuals, banks, exchange stations, and currency traders suddenly sold their dinar back to the CBI for USD or other major currencies that it wouldn't have an impact on the CBI? You would have to be delusional.

They have said numerous times that the period where both currencies will be valid in local markets will be at least a year. Some articles have said that banks will exchange IQD for much longer (ala the way old European currences are handled in many Euro countries). So I don't see a "all at once" danger.

 

The CBI would suddenly have large amounts of currency to either store in vaults or simply destroy while they would have to reduce their reserves appropriately. Granted their liabilities are reduced, their liquid assets are reduced proportionately. The reserves are used for importing of goods/services.. Now their liquid assets will be reduced thus creating concern on spending for imported goods/services

Just as you say, their reserves and liabilities are both reduced proportionately. Given that they manage to do $45B or so each year with no problems for imports and there is no way there are 50T dinars in the hands of speculators, I just don't see a problem with an RD. And as you also say it is an RV which is the real problem for the CBI.

 

Central banks hold dinars? I believe we saw an article posted where the Egyptian bank has some dinars in their reserves. I would imagine neighboring countries may hold dinars to help as a service to their neighboring country as it may be a higher demand for that region. As per the US, there really would be no reason to have a high amount other than to provide a service to those who travel to that region for business/tourism.

Right. Regional banks may hold some for travel purposes. Egypt floats their currency but keeps a very tight grip on it via market intervention, so their foreign reserves are not to back their currency as with a peg (and you would never back a pegged currency with another pegged currency) but to allow them to buy and sell in a number of foreign currencies.

[Darin]

What many fail to realise is that in the event of an RD the IQD would cease to be a recognised currency. The Technical Guidelines will spell out the arrangements for exchange. If they were to follow the Zambian template then there will be no facility for exchange outside the country.

You may have extreme difficulty getting anything for the IQD that you hold. If speculators are unable to exchange then that could only be of benefit to the CBI.

 

Have to be open minded to the worst case scenario.

 

While that would most definitely be a worst-case scenario, on would have to wonder & consider about those that have created bank accounts abroad (digital currency). Warka bank account holders, ISX investors, and so forth may consider withdrawing their funds.

 

Could it happen? Yes... But I think that would not go without much fanfare. And I am sure that many neighboring countries may find a way to smuggle their dinars across the borders for exchange... Those that would stand to lose the most would be those that would not have that ability...