For the Lopsters & Naysayers!.....

[sandyf]

Many were open minded when first getting invested in this 10 years ago when the war started.....with even long term gains up to now....and trillions are now moving into Iraq...so where's the worry now...if you have'nt lost anything yet, what's the gripe now?...lol...

 

There is no gripe. 9 years ago, this month in fact, I took a gamble and that is still the case. If it pays off, great, and if not, no big loss.

 

Unfortunately  many do not take the same view.

[Darin]

They have said numerous times that the period where both currencies will be valid in local markets will be at least a year. Some articles have said that banks will exchange IQD for much longer (ala the way old European currences are handled in many Euro countries). So I don't see a "all at once" danger.

 

Just as you say, their reserves and liabilities are both reduced proportionately. Given that they manage to do $45B or so each year with no problems for imports and there is no way there are 50T dinars in the hands of speculators, I just don't see a problem with an RD. And as you also say it is an RV which is the real problem for the CBI.

 

Right. Regional banks may hold some for travel purposes. Egypt floats their currency but keeps a very tight grip on it via market intervention, so their foreign reserves are not to back their currency as with a peg (and you would never back a pegged currency with another pegged currency) but to allow them to buy and sell in a number of foreign currencies.

 

All at once? That is more of an opinion. Soon as I see that the R/D is not only official, but has begun, it'll be too the bank I go to exchange before I can't. I am sure many would do the same.

 

A R/V would increase the value of liabilities. A R/D would still be a problem as paying off those liabilities by the speculators.

Will we ever be able to determine the amounts held by foreigners? Probably not.. But it would be foolish to think that they don't exist in almost every country. Question is, how much?

So weird how it is scattered everywhere... US, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Australia, Kuwait, Iran, Egypt, etc.

But, it would increase the amount of cash within that year to have to be paid out...... Their reserves would be decreased.. We can't argue that

 

The main point is, a R/D would create a run on the bank. It would only be in the CBI's best interest to allow for additional extended amount of time to allow exchange.

Ironically if the speculators didn't exist, I bet this R/D would of taken place by now... As only the Iraqi citizens would be the real concern, and they would likely have to exchange for the new bills..

 

I would also imagine that the CBI may not have an accurate number on how much currency has left their borders.. They may have a good idea, but no accurate number.

 

[makecents]

What many fail to realise is that in the event of an RD the IQD would cease to be a recognised currency. The Technical Guidelines will spell out the arrangements for exchange. If they were to follow the Zambian template then there will be no facility for exchange outside the country.

You may have extreme difficulty getting anything for the IQD that you hold. If speculators are unable to exchange then that could only be of benefit to the CBI.

 

Have to be open minded to the worst case scenario.

Excellent point.  Zimbabwe is an inescapable proof point of a worse case scenario. 

 

The argument against such would be, where are the dealers getting their IQD now?  It is my understanding that its not all from Iraqi banks but from banks in Jordan and/or Kuwait.  So those banks would need to exchange whatever IQD they had on hand.  If you assume those banks are getting IQD legally, then it seems unlikely that Iraq would want to screw banks that it previously allowed to obtain IQD.  But a lot of speculation in that.

[sandyf]

While that would most definitely be a worst-case scenario, on would have to wonder & consider about those that have created bank accounts abroad (digital currency). Warka bank account holders, ISX investors, and so forth may consider withdrawing their funds.

 

Could it happen? Yes... But I think that would not go without much fanfare. And I am sure that many neighboring countries may find a way to smuggle their dinars across the borders for exchange... Those that would stand to lose the most would be those that would not have that ability...

 

I was only referring to physical banknotes held by speculators. I did not say anything about a block on exchange, just that it may be a problem.

It would not be worth my while to think about going to Iraq but for a very large investor it could be.

[4aprofit]

What are some so worried about if some of us hold dinars?...if they dont have any...or dont believe in it...or did'nt get in when the price was even better...or dont like the investment themselves...what's the gripe with us and why are they even on here?......

 

Many of these naysayers have made every argument as per what wont work...while the long termers are laughing at them!...We are not at a loss...either they are at a loss, or their agenda is to get people to dump and sell back their dinars...as no one would work so hard to disprove something that has already had gains for many...and the final bell has'nt even been rung yet as per the finality of this thing...so why fret?...It's simply retarded!...

 

P.S. If this thing goes south I'll suck it up and admit it was a failure, but as per being a winner to date, I've had no problem holding the winning hand so far!.....so what's all the B.S. needed for that's being put out?...

 

[makecents]

The main point is, a R/D would create a run on the bank.

Even if this is true (and it might be) it would be nothing compared to what would happen in an RV case, right?

[umbertino]

I'm hoping for 10 or 25 cents to the dollar. That would be a good investment, and within the realm of possibility.

Agreed... That would be awesome........

That would be an insane investment, and retire my family permanently

Yep...I might be able to finally begin travelling around the world again... on a posh budget this time.

Blah, blah, blah...we will see?.....

As usual.... We will see ( if we're still around, granted).

[Darin]

I'm going to throw in a different angle for some to think about and be in complete awe. Mostly because of how large currency appreciations simply do not happen, etc. I however, will provide information that differs that.

Will the Iraqi dinar ever R/V and make some overnight millionaires? Its hard to predict the future.. But lets look back at a more recent potential investment that started in 2009. Many of us have likely bought dinars prior to 2009. I am sure many will think, where is my time machine so I can tell myself to put money in this investment instead of the dinar.

 

Some here were likely invested in 2009 or years prior. I know I wasn't, but I know some have been here for years. The history of bitcoins shows that in 2009, the value was $1 = 1,309 bit coins. We see a very similar correlation to what $1 buys today with the Iraqi dinar. If anything, the bit coin was even less valuable than the dinar. Bitcoin(s) are an online currency used to buy goods/services. It appears the demand has gone up for them as more and more places are accepting of them. They don't work like traditional currencies of the world while they're regulated by a bank, but never the less, the value still continues to rise based upon demand.

 

What are they worth today? Well present day, it takes anywhere from $60-66 dollars to buy 1 bit-coin. To put that into perspective, that means $1 in 2009 would net you 1,309 bit-coins. Figure 1,309 bit-coins @ $60 = $78,540.00

To put that in another perspective, lets say the average IQD speculator has spent $2,000 to acquire 2million dinars, but instead bought bit-coins in 2009

(1,309*2,000 = 2,618,000) 2,618,000 * present value $60/per bit-coin = $157,080,000

 

Now to put this in another different perspective, I previously mentioned this type of currency around the beginning of the Month with 20Mil in a debate.

Lets say you purchased during that time frame when the value was $35-40 per bit-coin with your $2,000. Within roughly 2 weeks, you would of made $1,000 profits.

 

Did this currency probably make some people overnight millionaires? Well probably not in a matter of one night poor, next night rich... But in a very short amount of time, I bet this has made some people very wealthy..

Why bring this up? It proves that large appreciations in currency do exist but likely happen w/o much fanfare. The bit-coin is NOT your traditional hard cash currency as its purpose is for online use, but never the less, it used for exchanging of goods/services.

 

Will the value continue to soar? Possibly, as its awareness allows more outlets for its use...

Even if this is true (and it might be) it would be nothing compared to what would happen in an RV case, right?

 

Well, obviously! The only way the CBI could raise the exchange rate is if it was able to communicate and work with other central banks to consider holding what foreign speculators exchange in as a cash reserve.

This would prevent a fast liquidation of the Iraqi CBI cash reserves.

 

If the central bank of a country held cashed in dinars as a liquid asset, they may proportionately increase their money supply to account for those liquid assets which may lead to an economy boost. Speculators would spend their wealth, retire, or invest. It would either help businesses profit, increase job demand, or help boost businesses through investments.

 

If central banks had no desire to hold the dinar in their reserves and would rather send it back to the CBI for other hard currencies, than the CBI would have a hard time pulling off any substantial increase.

The only way a R/V would work of any substantial proportion is to prevent outside held dinars from returning to the CBI in the near future and to hopefully forever be held in foreign countries.

That is why if the Egyptian central bank was holding dinar in their reserves, it would be interesting as it holds it to help facilitate cash transactions for an on-need basis, but allows those reserves to help diversify their cash reserves.

[makecents]

Bitcoins (a cryptographic currency) are indeed interesting.  But I think you are wrong about them being regulated by a bank (if that is what you meant).  The whole point is that there is no central control point, its all peer to peer.  Anyone can "mine" bit coins (it takes a LOT of computer power to do so and you are paid for this service with the coins you produce, but its hard to make money this way).  As time goes on it takes more and more computer power to find coins.  There are a finite number of them, but they can be divided down to very very small pieces to as they rise in value you can just use smaller pieces (i.e. its all digital there are no physical bitcoins).

A major accidental bifurcation of the stream occurred recently due to a sw bug in a new version, which is testing the bitcoin community.  They certainly have appreciated (not RVed) hugely.  Still, its a fascinating development in currency and will be very interesting to follow.

[4aprofit]

WOW!!!...More books being written about what wont work!...It's easy to say what wont work, since it has'nt worked out either way for the dinar...or yet huh?...At least as per the end results!....Amazing brilliance!...Love what you hate and hate what you love!...lol...

Edited March 21, 2013 by 4aprofit

[Darin]

They have said numerous times that the period where both currencies will be valid in local markets will be at least a year. Some articles have said that banks will exchange IQD for much longer (ala the way old European currences are handled in many Euro countries). So I don't see a "all at once" danger.

 

Just as you say, their reserves and liabilities are both reduced proportionately. Given that they manage to do $45B or so each year with no problems for imports and there is no way there are 50T dinars in the hands of speculators, I just don't see a problem with an RD. And as you also say it is an RV which is the real problem for the CBI.

 

Right. Regional banks may hold some for travel purposes. Egypt floats their currency but keeps a very tight grip on it via market intervention, so their foreign reserves are not to back their currency as with a peg (and you would never back a pegged currency with another pegged currency) but to allow them to buy and sell in a number of foreign currencies.

 

Well, they do function differently than hard cash... But needless to say, the appreciation is quite significant and is fun to watch.

If everyone on this forum invested in that instead of dinars, we would of hit our desired outcome by now (if not better, depending on your purchase date).

I should probably add one significant difference between BC & IQD and that difference is obvious...

The main difference is the volume of what exists.....

[boomer113189]

I guess you failed to understand the point. The point is quite simple, speculation is on a more global basis. Out of the huge money supply of dinars, many speculators are scattered across the globe.. So, upon a re-denomination and each and every note that we hold suddenly gets an expiration date, we will be forced to exchange them. Do you think many speculators will be so quick to exchange for the newly re-denominated currency? Doubtful - I know I would want USD for my IQD that I hold.

I imagine a bulk of the speculators would do the same.. Thus, this would reduce the foreign cash reserves of the CBI by the equivalent of what is held by foreigners. We will want US dollars, Europeans will want GBP, Euros, and possibly US dollars, Kuwait may want KWD, so on and so forth.

 

When Iran was creating so much demand for the dollar with their sanctioned country and large sums of cash were leaving the country, the CBI didn't like that. In fact, I think at its worst, is when the CBI adjusted 4 pips from 1170 to 1164.

By no means, am I saying that a R/D is out of the question, I am simply putting out a disadvantage to it as to what it would do to their reserves. Now any significant R/V would have the same effect, but obviously worse.

Delaying the plan may cause even MORE problems. So, the CBI is backed into a corner, take action and let the plan move forward or find a different solution.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, people may have bought it up than and saw good value out of it, what is to change now since the value could still go up. Hard to predict the future. I was mostly stating individual speculators held dinar. However, we do see that the Egyptian bank has acquired dinars for their reserves.

 

They may auction off $45 billion USD per year, but that is for goods and services they import. If you are trying to say that if every speculator outside of Iraq including individuals, banks, exchange stations, and currency traders suddenly sold their dinar back to the CBI for USD or other major currencies that it wouldn't have an impact on the CBI? You would have to be delusional. The CBI would suddenly have large amounts of currency to either store in vaults or simply destroy while they would have to reduce their reserves appropriately. Granted their liabilities are reduced, their liquid assets are reduced proportionately. The reserves are used for importing of goods/services.. Now their liquid assets will be reduced thus creating concern on spending for imported goods/services

 

Central banks hold dinars? I believe we saw an article posted where the Egyptian bank has some dinars in their reserves. I would imagine neighboring countries may hold dinars to help as a service to their neighboring country as it may be a higher demand for that region. As per the US, there really would be no reason to have a high amount other than to provide a service to those who travel to that region for business/tourism.

Do you think many speculators will be so quick to exchange for the newly re-denominated currency?   Yes i do because when currencys RD they set and exchange rate for the old notes to new notes till they render them obsolete

 

Edited March 21, 2013 by boomer113189

[Darin]

Do you think many speculators will be so quick to exchange for the newly re-denominated currency?   Yes i do because when currencys RD they set and exchange rate for the old notes to new notes till they render them obsolete

 

Speculators may be quick to exchange their soon to be expired currency, but why would they go for the newly re-denominated currency?

I for one, would rather take USD in return... Removal of the 000s greatly reduces the ROI %

At best you may be looking to 3-5 times your money depending on when you bought in, but many articles have shown that they prefer or desire to be valued around $1..

[4aprofit]

It's getting fun...watching people cry over those with long term gains that have'nt had any losses yet...It's actually hilarious...write me another novel or two on what wont work......

 

Because up until now, I was getting worried, but you naysayers are giving me a resurging faith even better than I've ever had before, as most all good, safe, sound, secure and bullet proof investments that tanked, that were considered so wonderful, and even propped up by some of the major media organizations, were actually believed in, but my, my....they are all gone now, so the dinar will have to do huh?...and I just know that you guys were there warning everyone before they took the plunge from day one on all the good stuff that tanked?

 

With that said, I'm sure you guys were involved in some of that good stuff that tanked, at least as per losing, or you would'nt be here right?....My, my..in another losing proposition?....And warning us of the same?...Since you lost it all in the good stuff huh?...As you gotta know about it, to know of this one, and how bad it is?...

 

So, with that, if we were actually given the opposite advice on the good stuff and it went south, then we must be right on target now and doing ok....so your helping some of us use the "reverse physcology factor" extensively in our favor!...lol...

 

P.S..Dont you just hate it when people waste away with their days and nights worrying over another losing proposition as they claim this is...but I truly appreciate their concern for me, but they forgot, oh my, some of us have already had gains...wow, they must have lost all their money in the big stuff that was supposed to be so good, by simply not paying more attention to what they were doing over there too...lol....

 

[makecents]

For the Lopsters & Naysayers!.....

 

Well since the lopsters and naysayers say that the RV will never be..or dont believe in it....let's start hearing of the plan that they think will be the one that will work...you know, they gotta have one..or they're doomed too!

 

They waste their time on here instead of dedicating their time to a plan that will work...or at least one that they may have as per helping themselves versus worrying over something that they think is a lost cause anyway?...

 

And if they care so much to warn us about this dinar thing...they surely must be concerned as per showing us the way out and what their REAL PLAN is!...that they must surely have to know about...THAT WILL WORK!...So lopsters and naysayers..START WRITING!...1, 2, 3 GO!.....

 

P.S..If one can spend so much time writing against something, one must surely have at least something that they believe in...or there would'nt be any opposition...I bet they cant even given us one thing?....lol...

 

Wow, you have pasted this exact same thing in 5 different forums/threads on this site.  I see you have done this with other posts as well.  Seems like rather spammy behavior to me.

[boomer113189]

Speculators may be quick to exchange their soon to be expired currency, but why would they go for the newly re-denominated currency?

I for one, would rather take USD in return... Removal of the 000s greatly reduces the ROI %

At best you may be looking to 3-5 times your money depending on when you bought in, but many articles have shown that they prefer or desire to be valued around $1..

the dinar will be around 1 dollar if they RD. if they gave the exchnage rate of old dinar to new dinar at 1000 old to 1 new that would equal around 1 dollar for 1 new dinar

[dontlop]

It's getting fun...watching people cry over those with long term gains that have'nt had any losses yet...It's actually hilarious...write me another novel or two on what wont work......

 

Because up until now, I was getting worried, but you naysayers are giving me a resurging faith even better than I've ever had before, as most all good, safe, sound, secure and bullet proof investments that tanked, that were considered so wonderful, and even propped up by some of the major media organizations, were actually believed in, but my, my....they are all gone now, so the dinar will have to do huh?...and I just know that you guys were there warning everyone before they took the plunge from day one on all the good stuff that tanked?

 

With that said, I'm sure you guys were involved in some of that good stuff that tanked, at least as per losing, or you would'nt be here right?....My, my..in another losing proposition?....And warning us of the same?...Since you lost it all in the good stuff huh?...As you gotta know about it, to know of this one, and how bad it is?...

 

So, with that, if we were actually given the opposite advice on the good stuff and it went south, then we must be right on target now and doing ok....so your helping some of us use the "reverse physcology factor" extensively in our favor!...lol...

 

P.S..Dont you just hate it when people waste away with their days and nights worrying over another losing proposition as they claim this is...but I truly appreciate their concern for me, but they forgot, oh my, some of us have already had gains...wow, they must have lost all their money in the big stuff that was supposed to be so good, by simply not paying more attention to what they were doing over there too...lol....

 

ya got to watch ..they will follow you constantly every where you post anything .. because you have a positive outlook .. theres 3 or 4 of these clowns ... they sinlge out certain p[eople and follow their every post and as soon as you post something .. they are their to counter everything you post .. .. iv noticed they havent been posting behind any of the 10,000 people posting here .. but they have bneen tailing you ....

 

you havea great outlook on this investment  those lopsters ... and you know excatly who they are that  cannot leave your posts alone .. .. but they can leave 10,000 others  do as they please. ..

 

any way .. you got a great outlook ... those lopsters .. bought dinars for a loss and already sol their dinars for another loss .   they are losers in the dinar world ... your gonna have that .. i for the most part never read what they say .. i dont think most people want to hear their crap every day .. not many people have anything to say to them .. thats why when ya respond to them .. they cling to ya ... .. ive never learned a single thing off any lopster .

 

 

 

Wow, you have pasted this exact same thing in 5 different forums/threads on this site.  I see you have done this with other posts as well.  Seems like rather spammy behavior to me.

what are a self made police of dinar vets ?  .. are you following him around ?.. heck i posted something he posted on another thread yeaterday .. is that your concern too?  if you dont like it why do you read all his posts .. and comment on them imediatly .. theres 100s of other chatters online ..but you single out one person and follow him around ..? you follow people around to write crap like this ? you must of lost alot of money on dinars  from some okie story to hate like you do .

geez creepy people in this world

Edited March 21, 2013 by dontlop

[4aprofit]

WE MUST BE GETTING CLOSER......DO WE NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE..."A DINAR BUYBACK SCHEME"...ALERT PRECAUTION?

 

Hey guys...with all the negativiity going on...I still got dinars...can you believe it...hey, they worked on me pretty thorough..or thought they did, I think they really probably thought that they would buy mine back by literally scaring me out of em'......but they did'nt get em....but they tried to keep me skeeered!....

 

And you know folks, the spread on buying and selling dinars is appx. the same going either way, whether you buy or sell...and the dumpers'....those wanting you to sell out...are just as crafty at getting people to sell, as those pumpers that pump you up, as per getting some to buy...

 

Boy, we are learning something new everyday...but you know what...the closer we get to an RV...the louder these naysayers will scream...and there will literally be piles of negative articles and even news reports coming out, as per deterring speculation...this is really the only way it would work, and this is not for everyone anyway...as in everything there is a balance...so we really need these naysyers and doomsdayers as part of the plan I guess..

 

Let's start thanking them for how bad of stuff that they can make up and come up with...because it excites me actually...to really know that they would go to this much trouble for NOTHING!...So go fugure on that one and chew on it a bit!...LOL Again...I know they hate it..but the naysayers helped me determine that the LOL now stand for "lots of lamebrains"..

 

[4aprofit]

By the way...thanks dontlop for your positive remarks...as I know that these naysayers actually have nothing better to do than follow me and try to set me up...they want me off the forums I know...as any positivity put out actually defeats their purpose of hurting this investment..and IMO..keeps them from getting people from selling out or selling back some of their dinars....and anyone that is effective towards them I've noticed...they follow every post as you've said yourself...while not even acknowledging all the others...

 

ON ANOTHER NOTE: YES, I DO POST SOME OF THE SAME POSTS IN OTHER THREADS...ESPECIALLY IF IT IS APPLICABLE TO THE SUBJECT MATTER I WILL, AS THE CRAP THAT THESE NAYSAYERS ARE PUTTING OUT...IS ALL THE SAME TRASH...JUST RE-HASHED AND RECONFIGURED ANYWAY...OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN...LIKE A BIG COMPOSTER.....AND WE ALL KNOW COMMON LOGIC PROVES...IF WHAT SOME OF US SHOW AS PER BEING POSITIVE...AND IS MET WITH THIS MUCH OBJECTION...AND THEY JUMP IMMEADIATELY...THEN WE MUST BE SHARING A LOT OF TRUTHS...AND WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH HURTS......I DID'NT SAY I'M RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING....AS I AM HUMAN TOO...BUT WHEN ALL THESE IDIOTS SHARE ONLY DOOM AND GLOOM....IT TELLS ME THERE IS AN AGENDA!...PERIOD!!!

Edited March 21, 2013 by 4aprofit

[Brazen]

Speculators may be quick to exchange their soon to be expired currency, but why would they go for the newly re-denominated currency?

I for one, would rather take USD in return... Removal of the 000s greatly reduces the ROI %

At best you may be looking to 3-5 times your money depending on when you bought in, but many articles have shown that they prefer or desire to be valued around $1..

I think people will buy newly RVed Dinar because they know how much oil Iraq has. They also know that all of the debt has been forgiven in Iraq. Also Iraqs economy is expected to surpass China within 5 years.

[Darin]

the dinar will be around 1 dollar if they RD. if they gave the exchnage rate of old dinar to new dinar at 1000 old to 1 new that would equal around 1 dollar for 1 new dinar

Yep - 1000:1 R/D puts the new IQD near $1. The CBI may raise the exchange rate after re-denomination to be on par with the dollar.

So, speculators may decide that instead of exchanging their 000s for the new re-denominated currency, they will seek a different hard currency.

I know I would, as I imagine many others would as well.

[boomer113189]

Yep - 1000:1 R/D puts the new IQD near $1. The CBI may raise the exchange rate after re-denomination to be on par with the dollar.

So, speculators may decide that instead of exchanging their 000s for the new re-denominated currency, they will seek a different hard currency.

I know I would, as I imagine many others would as well.

yes it would put the ONLY THE NEW IQD at 1 dollar  not the old ones we all have.

[4aprofit]

Funny how some know what will happen as they say...but in reality know nothing...reminds me of the date and rate stuff, as anyone that would know that, actually would'nt need a windfall from anything, as they would be the wealthiest folks in the world already!...lol...

[makecents]

yes it would put the ONLY THE NEW IQD at 1 dollar  not the old ones we all have.

Right, an RD locks the rate between the two currencies.  So if after a 1000:1 RD the NEW dinar were to be raised to an even $1, the IQD would go to $0.001 .  But I think they are unlikely to do that faster than over 2 or 3 years.

Edited March 21, 2013 by makecents

[Darin]

yes it would put the ONLY THE NEW IQD at 1 dollar  not the old ones we all have.

I never said that the old notes would equal $1.. Not sure where you had to quote me and state that. You may want to go back and re-read what I wrote.

I am quite sure 99% of the members here understand what a R/D entails...

 

I was simply saying... SPECULATORS will likely ask for OTHER hard currencies (not newly re-denominated dinars) upon a re-denomination due to a reduced ROI %.

Which will simply deplete the CBI's foreign cash reserves proportionately. Therefore, if a high % of dinars in existence are in speculator's hands, a R/D will reduce their foreign cash reserves.

 

A better question to ask: CBI announces detailed plans that are approved to start the re-denomination process. They give us 90 days to exchange the currency before it is demonetized. Who here is going to run to their bank and say "I want some of them new dinars w/o the 000s for my dinars w/ the 000s."? Likely none of us, we will simply take our USD or whatever country we are from and get our own domestic currency or a currency we would rather exchange it into. (I'm just doubting many of us would go for the new re-denominated currency)

 

Some may stay for the simple hope/dream that they bring their value to around their old rates or near Kuwait's rate. I wouldn't sit & hold for that hope due to the idea that they have publicly stated that they want to be on par with the $1.

 

A substantial R/V would have the same effect, but more money spent out...

Some countries allow for extended length of times during re-denominations. But for most speculators seeing that any gains made will be little, they may decide to try their luck elsewhere and exchange out.