Judge rules against voting rights in Pennsylvania

[simple]

Im glad that we can both agree that there will, and should be

ID for voting.

As shown, the survey, which the opposition to ID is based, from the

Brennon Center is not only innacurate, but laughably biased.

Voter fraud does indeed happen, and is easy in an area with no ID law.

The survey for that would be next to impossible to obtain, since the

perpetrators would have to confess.

Heres the funny thing...Acorn representatives have confessed to

fraud and have been prosecuted...The ones caught that is.

That Agency has been discredited, but make no mistake, those

people are still around, and still cheating.

Without ID, I could register in 20 places under different names

(found in the Phone Book) and vote in every one of those precincts.

I simply need a piece of mail (a bill) stolen from the mailbox to show

that I am that person....See how easy it is?....It happens all the time,

but will decrease with Voter ID.

Just arguing the impact of elections and why the sudden need for this type of change. Where are the numbers from the Reps to support their cases? Don't you honestly think there should be supporting documents? The only supporting information is the Democratic impact of election outcomes with voters that do not have a photo id. I wouldn't just called them voting fraud criminals.

* Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.

* Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.

* Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.

* Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.

* Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.

[cris]

Just arguing the impact of elections and why the sudden need for this type of change. Where are the numbers from the Reps to support their cases? Don't you honestly think there should be supporting documents? The only supporting information is the Democratic impact of election outcomes with voters that do not have a photo id. I wouldn't just called them voting fraud criminals.

* Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.

* Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.

* Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.

* Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.

* Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.

Ok...I can understand a Democrat trying to mitigate the impact of

fraud, since its their organisations (Acorn) that continue to cheat. If by

suiting a particular policy agenda they mean, end cheating, I would

agree with that.

With searches, sometimes you must go to page 10 to see another

viewpoint other than the Lib agenda, I typically have to go to the

bottom of the page, or to page 2 to find the info Im looking for.

That type of search is getting easier and easier....More Conservatives

are speaking out....That pushes their opinion to the top, and thats

how a search works.

Ex-ACORN worker: 'I paid the price' for voter registration fraud

JOHN MCCAIN

October 22, 2008|By Chris Lawrence CNN "American Morning"

Clifton Mitchell filled out voter cards using fake birthdays, Social Security numbers and baby-name books.

Clifton Mitchell helped register nearly 2,000 voters for the community group ACORN. But not one of them actually existed.

"I regret it. I paid the price for it," he said.

Mitchell was convicted last year and spent nearly three months in prison. He's one of the few ACORN workers convicted of voter registration fraud.

Today, he lives with his wife and two boys, ages 3 and 1, in a small apartment in suburban Seattle, Washington. Mitchell said he scammed the system because, "I needed money; I had to support my family and I was new to the area. It was the only job I had."

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-22/politics/voter.fraud_1_voter-registration-acorn-workers-number-of-swing-states?_s=PM:POLITICS

That was an easy one...I typed in 'Acorn prosecuted for fraud'

A lot of times....A search can be conducted by typing in the title,

'Republicans disenfranchise' and just add 'debunked' to the

end of that.

[simple]

Ok...I can understand a Democrat trying to mitigate the impact of

fraud, since its their organisations (Acorn) that continue to cheat. If by

suiting a particular policy agenda they mean, end cheating, I would

agree with that.

With searches, sometimes you must go to page 10 to see another

viewpoint other than the Lib agenda, I typically have to go to the

bottom of the page, or to page 2 to find the info Im looking for.

That type of search is getting easier and easier....More Conservatives

are speaking out....That pushes their opinion to the top, and thats

how a search works.

Ex-ACORN worker: 'I paid the price' for voter registration fraud

JOHN MCCAIN

October 22, 2008|By Chris Lawrence CNN "American Morning"

Clifton Mitchell filled out voter cards using fake birthdays, Social Security numbers and baby-name books.

Clifton Mitchell helped register nearly 2,000 voters for the community group ACORN. But not one of them actually existed.

"I regret it. I paid the price for it," he said.

Mitchell was convicted last year and spent nearly three months in prison. He's one of the few ACORN workers convicted of voter registration fraud.

Today, he lives with his wife and two boys, ages 3 and 1, in a small apartment in suburban Seattle, Washington. Mitchell said he scammed the system because, "I needed money; I had to support my family and I was new to the area. It was the only job I had."

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-22/politics/voter.fraud_1_voter-registration-acorn-workers-number-of-swing-states?_s=PM:POLITICS

That was an easy one...I typed in 'Acorn prosecuted for fraud'

A lot of times....A search can be conducted by typing in the title,

'Republicans disenfranchise' and just add 'debunked' to the

end of that.

Cris, no one said it didn't exist, it's the percentage that is argued vs. alienating 20 million voters. The reports show voter fraud. Reps are not making their case; BUT the biggest number found by the Reps is how the election can be altered if mandatory photo ids were the law NOW. They're banking on 21 million or so, somehow, can't get a photo id soon enough for whatever reasons. Can we agree on that?

[gp49]

Why do conservative voters want to fight the fight of voter registrations for the Republican politicians who are trying to change the laws? Why are they concerned with standard state voter registration and photo IDs?

Republicans believe that requiring photo IDs could cause enough of a dropoff in legitimate Democratic voting to add 3 percent to the Republican vote. This underscores why it is so critical to get the facts straight on voter fraud.

The voter fraud phantom drives policy that disenfranchises actual legitimate voters, without cost justification.

There have been a handful of substantiated cases of individual ineligible voters attempting to defraud the election system. But by any measure, voter fraud is extraordinarily rare. In part, this is because fraud by individual voters is a singularly foolish and ineffective way to attempt to win an election. We're talking about a few hundred people (<1,000) that didn't realize they were ineligible to vote during a specific period.

The majority of voter frauds have been from erroneous machines and absentee ballots. They need to be fixed!!!

Things aren't always what they appear to be. These arguments are an distraction from the real issues.

News media of choice severely affects the publics mind and generate blogs like this one.

Who's really being dishonest here: the Dems that do not want to disenfranchise people OR the Reps who wants to disenfranchise and alienate a few million Americans with a more clear objective (21 million)?

simple simple simple

PLEASE tell me Who would be disenfranchised because they have to have an ID to be able to vote???? Certainly NO legal US citizen! You need an ID to buy cigarettes, alcohol, cash your check, open any kind of an account (the list goes on forever) so I need you to tell me WHO would not legally be able to get an ID to not only do those things but with little effort or cost to them? If you know of anyone then I can get them help ASAP, however, most people have already gotten their own ID without help but help is certainly available. And now you are telling me that I am some kind of conservative nut trying to help what/who? do what? for what reason?? I just want to be sure everyone who votes has the right to vote and those who have no ID (who could that possibly be?) probably doesn't have that right.

I want to make sure that those in my family who have fought and died for this extremely valuable right did not do so in vain.

As extremely important as this right is, don't make it so extremely easy for those who don't have the right to vote, do so. It is that simple, simple!

[cris]

Cris, no one said it didn't exist, it's the percentage that is argued vs. alienating 20 million voters. The reports show voter fraud. Reps are not making their case; BUT the biggest number found by the Reps is how the election can be altered if mandatory photo ids were the law NOW. They're banking on 21 million or so, somehow, can't get a photo id soon enough for whatever reasons. Can we agree on that?

How could I agree to that? The Brennon Study/Survey has been shown

to be biased and probably wildly inaccurate.

If the study shows a false positive, any Democrat argument that flows from

that, is purely propaganda, and can be ignored.

Give me a link to the Republicans saying how the election can be altered if

mandatory photo ids were the law NOW....Because Im not seeing it.

I still maintain that an ID is easy to get, the stats for the number of folks

without one is flawed, and the only people that could be disenfranchised

by requiring ID are the ones cheating the system.

Its incredibly easy to get an ID, it takes about half an hour.....having that

would force me to only vote once though

[parmenio]

At the end of the day it looks like a right wing A$$ KICKING to me!

[respectron]

simple simple simple

PLEASE tell me Who would be disenfranchised because they have to have an ID to be able to vote???? Certainly NO legal US citizen! You need an ID to buy cigarettes, alcohol, cash your check, open any kind of an account (the list goes on forever) so I need you to tell me WHO would not legally be able to get an ID to not only do those things but with little effort or cost to them? If you know of anyone then I can get them help ASAP, however, most people have already gotten their own ID without help but help is certainly available. And now you are telling me that I am some kind of conservative nut trying to help what/who? do what? for what reason?? I just want to be sure everyone who votes has the right to vote and those who have no ID (who could that possibly be?) probably doesn't have that right.

I want to make sure that those in my family who have fought and died for this extremely valuable right did not do so in vain.

As extremely important as this right is, don't make it so extremely easy for those who don't have the right to vote, do so. It is that simple, simple!

EXACTLY! gp49, you are exactly right and JMHO is that whomever can't understand this must not really respect American values.

[Maggie123]

I believe the debate is about this "NEW" law possibly affecting 21 million legal voters that are most likely low income.

Just to reduce it down into "Simple" terms...

OK, I was bad and let my drivers license expire. Yup, I was illegal and I got a ticket, so I have been justly punished.

I paid the $40.00 ticket and looked to see what I needed to bring to DMV...

They required a birth certificate and I had misplaced mine, so now I had to order one on line for $25.00...

After a week of waiting for it to arrive, I drove 25 miles to the closest DMV and paid another $18.00. Whew Done!

Now what if I was poor, and that money was all I had for for my families other needs. I guess I would still be illegal. huh?

Even if I quit driving and was legal in that regard, I would still be considered "illegal" to vote in this election.

Poor people need time to be able to comply with this new rule, what is the big rush? It has been this way for years and years. Why not put this through right after an election giving people 4 years to comply.

The timing of this is pretty telling. IMHO

Edited August 17, 2012 by Maggie123

[cris]

I believe the debate is about this "NEW" law possibly affecting 21 million legal voters that are most likely low income.

Just to reduce it down into "Simple" terms...

OK, I was bad and let my drivers license expire. Yup, I was illegal and I got a ticket, so I have been justly punished.

I paid the $40.00 ticket and looked to see what I needed to bring to DMV...

They required a birth certificate and I had misplaced mine, so now I had to order one on line for $25.00...

After a week of waiting for it to arrive, I drove 25 miles to the closest DMV and paid another $18.00. Whew Done!

Now what if I was poor, and that money was all I had for for my families other needs. I guess I would still be illegal. huh?

Even if I quit driving and was legal in that regard, I would still be considered "illegal" to vote in this election.

Poor people need time to be able to comply with this new rule, what is the big rush? It has been this way for years and years. Why not put this through right after an election giving people 4 years to comply.

The timing of this is pretty telling. IMHO

I have a duplicate ID in case I lose my drivers license

It cost $5 and they asked me for two other forms of ID to

confirm.....I could have gone home for my birth certificate,

but didnt need to.

I lost the original one at home, and just couldnt locate it....I later

did find it, in a 'safe' place, as usual

I think a personal photo ID in a lot of places is free....Its $5 here.

[respectron]

I'm not meaning to disrespect by any means but I see it this way! If you have lapse of responsibility to maintain your I.D. Valadility then what can you say but its your own fault if you can't provide a proper I.D. to vote. I see what your saying Maggie but I know if I screw up and it costs (as it should) it teaches me to be more responsible and not to let it happen again, just like loosing your driving privileges. Again JMHO.

[jonjon]

It seems to me that being riddled with so many problems one would realize it would be appreciated by the rest of the country if a few did set the election out.

[cris]

Poor people need time to be able to comply with this new rule, what is the big rush? It has been this way for years and years. Why not put this through right after an election giving people 4 years to comply.

The timing of this is pretty telling. IMHO

The Penn. voter ID law was passed in 2011, is that enough

time for someone to get an ID?

This court decision is simply upholding that law.

[Maggie123]

I'm not meaning to disrespect by any means but I see it this way! If you have lapse of responsibility to maintain your I.D. Valadility then what can you say but its your own fault if you can't provide a proper I.D. to vote. I see what your saying Maggie but I know if I screw up and it costs (as it should) it teaches me to be more responsible and not to let it happen again, just like loosing your driving privileges. Again JMHO.

What Respectron? I said I was "BAD" I paid the ticket and knew it was my own fault. I sure as heck wasn't even close to loosing my driving privileges.

I think you missed my point...

cris every state is different, but here and I believe in most states, to get an official ID you need a passport or birth certificate.

You may be right about it being less for just the I.D. and not the drivers license part of it.

I am not clear what you are referring to when you say "It cost $5 and they asked me for two other forms of ID to confirm". Do you mean at DMV? What other two forms of ID did they require? A passport & SS#?

[Unitedrich]

Umbertino,

I love ya bro. You bring the best music and oldies from the good old times gone past, I plussed you on this to help you out, but it didnt seem to help much. UR

[respectron]

What Respectron? I said I was "BAD" I paid the ticket and knew it was my own fault. I sure as heck wasn't even close to loosing my driving privileges.

I think you missed my point...

cris every state is different, but here and I believe in most states, to get an official ID you need a passport or birth certificate.

You may be right about it being less for just the I.D. and not the drivers license part of it.

I am not clear what you are referring to when you say "It cost $5 and they asked me for two other forms of ID to confirm". Do you mean at DMV? What other two forms of ID did they require? A passport & SS#?

Ok. If you didn't loose your driving privileges then you must of had something to prove your identity if you were pulled over. And yes I guess I missed the point, sorry . I am trying understand everyones point of view but sometimes it hard to understand . I have very little experience in this as I have had my drivers license since I was 16 and now am 39 and never lost it or let it expire .

On a lighter note, how are you and have you been getting the monsoons storms?

[divemaster5734]

In a defeat for voting rights advocates

That's about as twisted as it gets.

Red is Blue and yellow is green according to you.

I thought it was just the commie propaganda you are bombarded with all day long in Italy, but I'm starting to wonder if you just do these to insult and frustrate any Americans that happen to read these trash posts.

I mean, really?

Why would you post a lie like this, I don't say anything about Italy, I realize it is none of my business.

How come you don't have a problem posting wrong and inflammatory articles about MY country?

Do you really hate America that much?

Are you one of those people that only want to see America fall?

[desimo]

Please explain to me how if voter fraud was so rare that ACORN or Nevada has been indicted by the FBI, multiple other cases have been investigated and found active, pets have received absentee ballots, cartoon characters and the dead have been found on the registrations? I can see the dead but come on, since when did Donald Duck EVER register to vote. Besides, if a duck ever walked into a voter registration location and was permitted to register, then the one doing the registration would be too stupid to vote and donald should take their spot at the booth.

[Maggie123]

Ok. If you didn't loose your driving privileges then you must of had something to prove your identity if you were pulled over. And yes I guess I missed the point, sorry . I am trying understand everyones point of view but sometimes it hard to understand . I have very little experience in this as I have had my drivers license since I was 16 and now am 39 and never lost it or let it expire .

On a lighter note, how are you and have you been getting the monsoons storms?

It's all good Respectron. Yes I had my expired license. I'll never let it expire again! Promise!

No Rain Respectron, I Wish!

I'm out of plus 1's Umbertino but Thank You for everything you bring to this forum. You help us to discuss some hard issues, but that is a good thing. IMHO I know you love us!

Hugs, Maggie

Edited August 17, 2012 by Maggie123

[respectron]

It's all good Respectron. Yes I had my expired license. I'll never let it expire again! Promise!

No Rain Respectron, I Wish!

I'm out of plus 1's Umbertino but Thank You for everything you bring to this forum. You help us to discuss some hard issues, but that is a good thing. IMHO I know you love us!

Hugs, Maggie

Has been raining descent here for once. The monsoons usually go around us and still do but more of it has hit us this year then in a very long time. Love the lightning shows too

Edited August 18, 2012 by respectron

[Maggie123]

Has been raining descent here for once. The monsoons usually go around us and still do but more of it has hit us this year then in a very long time. Love the lightning shows too

You are so LUCKY! Just plain old hot here, but maybe the weather man will have some good news for us.

Hey Respectron I saw your post about your new job!

Congrats, I hope you like it and it all goes well for you.

[respectron]

You are so LUCKY! Just plain old hot here, but maybe the weather man will have some good news for us.

Hey Respectron I saw your post about your new job!

Congrats, I hope you like it and it all goes well for you.

Thank you. I'm just waiting for the background check and where exactly I'm going to be assigned

[simple]

I believe the debate is about this "NEW" law possibly affecting 21 million legal voters that are most likely low income.

Just to reduce it down into "Simple" terms...

OK, I was bad and let my drivers license expire. Yup, I was illegal and I got a ticket, so I have been justly punished.

I paid the $40.00 ticket and looked to see what I needed to bring to DMV...

They required a birth certificate and I had misplaced mine, so now I had to order one on line for $25.00...

After a week of waiting for it to arrive, I drove 25 miles to the closest DMV and paid another $18.00. Whew Done!

Now what if I was poor, and that money was all I had for for my families other needs. I guess I would still be illegal. huh?

Even if I quit driving and was legal in that regard, I would still be considered "illegal" to vote in this election.

Poor people need time to be able to comply with this new rule, what is the big rush? It has been this way for years and years. Why not put this through right after an election giving people 4 years to comply.

The timing of this is pretty telling. IMHO

Maggie, well articulated, one of many different, scenarios. I can understand people finding it odd and and also too easy to get a ID but they fail to understand very valid scenarios do exist.

Can't forget the U.S. has a very poor people as well and dismissing that group removes their rights.

Please explain to me how if voter fraud was so rare that ACORN or Nevada has been indicted by the FBI, multiple other cases have been investigated and found active, pets have received absentee ballots, cartoon characters and the dead have been found on the registrations? I can see the dead but come on, since when did Donald Duck EVER register to vote. Besides, if a duck ever walked into a voter registration location and was permitted to register, then the one doing the registration would be too stupid to vote and donald should take their spot at the booth.

Percentages.

How could I agree to that? The Brennon Study/Survey has been shown

to be biased and probably wildly inaccurate.

If the study shows a false positive, any Democrat argument that flows from

that, is purely propaganda, and can be ignored.

Give me a link to the Republicans saying how the election can be altered if

mandatory photo ids were the law NOW....Because Im not seeing it.

I still maintain that an ID is easy to get, the stats for the number of folks

without one is flawed, and the only people that could be disenfranchised

by requiring ID are the ones cheating the system.

Its incredibly easy to get an ID, it takes about half an hour.....having that

would force me to only vote once though

Disregard the Brennon studies, why do you think it's a battle between Dems and Reps?

Democrats know if they loose that group of voters they will have a problem during the election. Reps know that they would gain by removing these voters. No party is actually fighting for an American right but for ballot power.

[TexasGranny]

A quick google found this:

National Review

AUGUST 17, 2012 4:00 A.M.

Voter Fraud in the Keystone State

Voter-ID opponents are on the run.

By John Fund

Opponents of voter-ID legislation are fighting such laws in over ten states, but much of their attention has recently focused on Pennsylvania. This week, a state judge refused to block a new law requiring ID at the polls and increasing security measures for absentee ballots from taking effect this November. The political stakes couldn’t be higher.

A new poll from Franklin & Marshall College shows that Barack Obama’s lead over Mitt Romney in the Keystone State has fallen to five points (47 percent to 42 percent). Obama led Romney by 48 percent to 36 percent in the last F&M poll in June. An incumbent president without majority support in a state at this point in the race is in danger of not being able to catch up. If Pennsylvania went Republican, it could decide the presidency — after all, the state hasn’t voted for the GOP at the presidential level since 1988, and it has 20 electoral votes.

In 2004, John Kerry edged out George W. Bush by only 150,000 votes out of 5.7 million cast. Kerry’s victory was built on an enormous margin in Philadelphia, where he won 81 percent of the vote, giving him an edge of 412,000 votes. Republicans have long suspected that voter fraud regularly occurs in Philadelphia. In the 1990s, a Philadelphia election that determined control of the state senate was thrown out by a federal judge because of massive fraud.

Last month, City Commissioner Al Schmidt, a Republican, issued a 27-page report on irregularities he found in a sample of Philadelphia precincts during this year’s primary. The report, which looked at only 1 percent of the city’s 1,687 districts, found cases of double voting, voter impersonation, and voting by non-citizens, as well as 23 people who were not registered to vote but nonetheless voted. Schmidt also found reports of people who were counted as voting in the wrong party’s primary.

“We did not set out to quantify the magnitude of voting irregularities that occurred, but rather to analyze them in detail,” his report stated. “Nevertheless, we identified hundreds of cases of voting irregularities [in select precincts] that warrant further investigation.”

Republicans are convinced that voter-ID laws coupled with absentee-ballot protections will cut down on fraud, and in areas like Philadelphia will lead to lower Democratic margins. The more honest among them acknowledge that the city has long been a fount of corruption, including when Republicans ran a machine that dominated it for 80 years until the 1950s. During that period, not a single Democrat was elected mayor, in part because of massive Republican-led voter fraud. All that changed after Democrats seized control of the levers of city power was that they perfected what former Democratic mayor Ed Rendell once admitted to me was “a yeasty system where the rule of law isn’t always followed.”

page2

page3

Here's more: Republican National Lawyers Assoc.

4 Indiana Dems charged with election fraud in 2008 presidential race

Fox News

[cris]

What Respectron? I said I was "BAD" I paid the ticket and knew it was my own fault. I sure as heck wasn't even close to loosing my driving privileges.

I think you missed my point...

cris every state is different, but here and I believe in most states, to get an official ID you need a passport or birth certificate.

You may be right about it being less for just the I.D. and not the drivers license part of it.

I am not clear what you are referring to when you say "It cost $5 and they asked me for two other forms of ID to confirm". Do you mean at DMV? What other two forms of ID did they require? A passport & SS#?

Atm card and Credit card....Plus I happen to know my Drivers license number.

Thank you. I'm just waiting for the background check and where exactly I'm going to be assigned

I've been honking at red vans with ladders on them for days

Now you tell me that you havent even started?....No wonder I keep getting

the finger....Lmao.

[Maggie123]

Atm card and Credit card....Plus I happen to know my Drivers license number.

To get an Official Personal ID from DMV? Hummm, AZ must be pretty lenient!

That is surprising with the problem of all the illegal imigrants you have there.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Maggie123