God's Word

[Ricky G.H.]

God's word will give us the greatest riches! More than the dinar we have, I want this post to give everyone hope. By staying in God's word, He will give us all the strength we need and will help find riches that some of us never knew existed. I pray that all members and visitors on the dinar vets site, might be saved.

John 3:16- For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 4:25-Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

[delta22]

Thank You brother.....it's always good to be reminded of Gods grace and blessing.

[cranster]

God's word will give us the greatest riches! More than the dinar we have, I want this post to give everyone hope. By staying in God's word, He will give us all the strength we need and will help find riches that some of us never knew existed. I pray that all members and visitors on the dinar vets site, might be saved.

John 3:16- For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 4:25-Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Amen brother, but the sharks are circling, and it wont be long until the "no evidence that God exists" crowd are going to join in the fun. let the games begin.

[kliklok00]

No shark here (although my avatar may make one think differently). I absolutely, 100% believe in God, so that is not an issue with me. My issue(s) come when trying to understand the Bible. For instance, when I read John 3:16, the first thing that I think about is "why did God also give us Lucifer?" I just don't get it...He claims to love us so much He killed His own Son for us, yet in the same book I read:

1. He created Satan

2. He allowed Satan to sin

3. He booted Satan out of heaven and gave him dominion over the earth

4. He was not around when Satan tempted Adam and Eve

5. He now condemns His very creation to an eternal punishment (yet He loves us?)

My point in all of this goes back to the verse you posted---if He loves us so much, why in the world do we suffer so much when all He has to do is say "Enough!"

[Nadita]

Amen

Thanks for the post and reminder

[bamagirl]

I am glad this is the first post I read today, thank you Ricky and God bless!

[NEODinar]

<br />God's word will give us the greatest riches! More than the dinar we have, I want this post to give everyone hope. By staying in God's word, He will give us all the strength we need and will help find riches that some of us never knew existed. I pray that all members and visitors on the dinar vets site, might be saved.<br /><br /><br /><br />John 3:16- For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. <br /> <br /><br /><br />Ephesians 4:25-Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Hmmmm, not sure if "god's word" is what is needed for that. If that were true in the least, there wouldn't be believers in poverty wouldn't ya think? If god so "loved the world" why does he plan on destroying it?? This sounds like one of those miracle manna bread infomercials by those late night televangelist, just place your heart in the lord, oh and send us 20 dollars and all your financial woes will end. Oh yeah cant forget the blessed cloth to that upon ordering will give you financial prosperity as well. Wow, just wow

[umbertino]

No shark here (although my avatar may make one think differently). I absolutely, 100% believe in God, so that is not an issue with me. My issue(s) come when trying to understand the Bible. For instance, when I read John 3:16, the first thing that I think about is "why did God also give us Lucifer?" I just don't get it...He claims to love us so much He killed His own Son for us, yet in the same book I read:

1. He created Satan

2. He allowed Satan to sin

3. He booted Satan out of heaven and gave him dominion over the earth

4. He was not around when Satan tempted Adam and Eve

5. He now condemns His very creation to an eternal punishment (yet He loves us?)

My point in all of this goes back to the verse you posted---if He loves us so much, why in the world do we suffer so much when all He has to do is say "Enough!"

<br /><br /><br />

Hmmmm, not sure if "god's word" is what is needed for that. If that were true in the least, there wouldn't be believers in poverty wouldn't ya think? If god so "loved the world" why does he plan on destroying it?? This sounds like one of those miracle manna bread infomercials by those late night televangelist, just place your heart in the lord, oh and send us 20 dollars and all your financial woes will end. Oh yeah cant forget the blessed cloth to that upon ordering will give you financial prosperity as well. Wow, just wow

Agreed & agreed.

[tampa1000]

No shark here (although my avatar may make one think differently). I absolutely, 100% believe in God, so that is not an issue with me. My issue(s) come when trying to understand the Bible. For instance, when I read John 3:16, the first thing that I think about is "why did God also give us Lucifer?" I just don't get it...He claims to love us so much He killed His own Son for us, yet in the same book I read:

1. He created Satan

2. He allowed Satan to sin

3. He booted Satan out of heaven and gave him dominion over the earth

4. He was not around when Satan tempted Adam and Eve

5. He now condemns His very creation to an eternal punishment (yet He loves us?)

My point in all of this goes back to the verse you posted---if He loves us so much, why in the world do we suffer so much when all He has to do is say "Enough!"

1.He created all the Angels, we now call him Satan since he has fallen.

2. He allows us all the freedom of choice, we are Not robots thank GOD!

3. He booted Satan from heaven and it was man who choose to have Satan as domonion over earth, man sined and did not obay God. Remember Man had a choice!

4.He was around, man choose to believe satan and not God.

5. God did not condem us or anyone,we all have a choice to choose good from bad, its the choices we make on a daily basis that decides our faith...

My point is we have freedom of choice, I think the day will come soon when God does says enough and that will be the 2nd return of Jessus Christ.

[learning all i can]

No shark here (although my avatar may make one think differently). I absolutely, 100% believe in God, so that is not an issue with me. My issue(s) come when trying to understand the Bible. For instance, when I read John 3:16, the first thing that I think about is "why did God also give us Lucifer?" I just don't get it...He claims to love us so much He killed His own Son for us, yet in the same book I read:

1. He created Satan

2. He allowed Satan to sin

3. He booted Satan out of heaven and gave him dominion over the earth

4. He was not around when Satan tempted Adam and Eve

5. He now condemns His very creation to an eternal punishment (yet He loves us?)

My point in all of this goes back to the verse you posted---if He loves us so much, why in the world do we suffer so much when all He has to do is say "Enough!"

Wow, I don't pretend to have all the answers but by and thru Gods word and the Holy Spirit, He has given me the understanding and peace that I seeked with these very questions. I hope my explanation may help and God will give you His peace also.

1st. I think God allows the possiblity for evil to exist and for man to sin and disobey is out of His desire to place in our hearts the capacity and possibility for "true" love. This "true" love comes from a free will choice. God knew that for true love to exist in this world that He must create free will beings that were given the capacity to choose Him, that also includes the possiblity to make the choice to reject and disobey Him.

I am very reformed in my beliefs. Since the fall, I believe that the heart of man is depraved and desperately wicked. Our hearts are a bondage to sin. It is by God's act of grace on our behalf and not simply by our choice of Him that we are saved but I also believe we are called to make a decision, and that decision is a real choice. We are given the choice to receive or reject.

We all have seeked to understand God's reason for permitting evil and even the possibility for man to choose evil. We ask why God permitted the fall and how a good and merciful God could permit evil to exist or how man can be left to perish in eternal torment as judgement for our sin. I know you won't like my answer but God does not tell us or provide all the answers that we would like to know but all the answers that we NEED to know. Sometimes, in His infinite wisdom He chooses not to explain Himself. This is one of God's mysteries and I choose to accept this mystery in faith. Scripture never assumes that God owes man or even His children an explanation for what He does and why He does it. Deut. 29:29-"A secret things belong to the Lord."

Last but not least, you ask: "if God is good and He did not invent evil but He has the capacity to do something about it, why doesn't He? The best and only answer to this one is the Good News. HE HAS....He has defeated evil, satan, hell and the grave...the victory has been won.

True love has won over evil and yes that is how much He loves us.

I hope others will weigh in on this and give you better explanations that I am able and explain it in a better way than I am capable. God love ya, kliklokoo.

If there were no evil, there would be no objective reality of what is good. How would we ever know "true" love????

[NEODinar]

<br />1.He created all the Angels, we now call him Satan since he has fallen.<br />2. He allows us all the freedom of choice, we are Not robots thank GOD!<br />3. He booted Satan from heaven and it was man who choose to have Satan as domonion over earth, man sined and did not obay God. Remember Man had a choice!<br />4.He was around, man choose to believe satan and not God.<br />5. God did not condem us or anyone,we all have a choice to choose good from bad, its the choices we make on a daily basis that decides our faith...<br /><br />My point is we have freedom of choice, I think the day will come soon when God does says enough and that will be the 2nd return of Jessus Christ.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

1. Why not just end satan then??

2. Hmm, well he is already aware of the choices we will make before creating us. So yes we are robots just ignorant ones according to your logic.

3. Why not just destroy him, why simply "boot" him? Makes absolutely no sense. God burns his human creations, but simply demotes satan to hell to rule there?? Ummmm ok. Yes man had a choice, a choice that god was AWARE of so why would he be surprised about the outcome of our choices??

4. He was around and visible yet they chose satan? ya ok

5. Umm, no god did condemn us. You are hung up on this idea that he gave us free will and thus a choice but for some reason you can not grasp the very basic infantile idea that your god is omniscient therefor he knows the choices we will make before creating us. WHY WOULD GOD CREATE PEOPLE KNOWING THEY WILL SIN???? lets take a poll and see if you'll be the first believer to actual address this issue for once.

"My point is we have freedom of choice, I think the day will come soon when God does says enough and that will be the 2nd return of Jesus Christ. "

- No we don't, not if your god is omniscient. For us to have been given free will either means A. your god is a sadistic monster worse than every dictator that ever lived, or B. it's simply not true. I'll go with the ladder.

[learning all i can]

<br /><br /><br />

Hmmmm, not sure if "god's word" is what is needed for that. If that were true in the least, there wouldn't be believers in poverty wouldn't ya think? If god so "loved the world" why does he plan on destroying it?? This sounds like one of those miracle manna bread infomercials by those late night televangelist, just place your heart in the lord, oh and send us 20 dollars and all your financial woes will end. Oh yeah cant forget the blessed cloth to that upon ordering will give you financial prosperity as well. Wow, just wow

The hope and the "riches" that Ricky GH is speaking of, has absolutely nothing do do with the earthly riches/proverty that you suggest, but the eternal and heavenly bliss that can only be found in our LORD and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

[NEODinar]

<br /><font size="3">The hope and the "riches" that Ricky GH is speaking of, has absolutely nothing do do with the earthly riches/proverty that you suggest, but the eternal and heavenly bliss that can only be found in our LORD and Saviour, Jesus Christ.</font><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Really? Not sure how you extrapolated that considering he made no mention of heaven or the afterlife. How do you get "heavenly bliss" from riches??

[Loco01]

1.He created all the Angels, we now call him Satan since he has fallen.

2. He allows us all the freedom of choice, we are Not robots thank GOD!

3. He booted Satan from heaven and it was man who choose to have Satan as domonion over earth, man sined and did not obay God. Remember Man had a choice!

4.He was around, man choose to believe satan and not God.

5. God did not condem us or anyone,we all have a choice to choose good from bad, its the choices we make on a daily basis that decides our faith...

My point is we have freedom of choice, I think the day will come soon when God does says enough and that will be the 2nd return of Jessus Christ.

Well Tampa 1000 I was going to answer those questions but you said it all and what you said is the truth

I can tell you read the bible and you let the Holy Spirit give you the meaning.

Brothers In Christ.

[learning all i can]

<br /><br /><br />

Really? Not sure how you extrapolated that considering he made no mention of heaven or the afterlife. How do you get "heavenly bliss" from riches??

Well Neo, if Ricky had not mentioned God and God's word in every sentence, I suppose I would not have taken this in a bibical meaning or heavenly meaning, but he did so I took it as the Holy Spirit lead me to take it....

Rick write: God's word will give us the greatest riches. For most Christians this brings to mind, Matthew 6:19-21......Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where theives break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth or rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. btw..that was Jesus speaking. Christians, all agree that our greatest treasure or riches will be after this life with our Saviour, Jesus. Treasures and riches here on earth mean nothing without the love and salvation of our LORD.

Next Ricky says: "He will give us all the strength we need to find riches that some of us never knew exisited. Well, to me Rick was actually saying, by staying in Gods word and continually bring the "good news" for all to hear, that many WILL come to know Christ and what true riches are. He has expressed hope that all will be saved..

How about you Neo? Rick has brought us a wonderful and beautiful hope for all. If you don't care to know His true intentions, why do you post and make light of what others reconize as good will and the love of Christ....Would just love for you to be and have a part of that.......I'm praying for ya! .....love barb

[bamagirl]

Well Neo, if Ricky had not mentioned God and God's word in every sentence, I suppose I would not have taken this in a bibical meaning or heavenly meaning, but he did so I took it as the Holy Spirit lead me to take it....

Rick write: God's word will give us the greatest riches. For most Christians this brings to mind, Matthew 6:19-21......Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where theives break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth or rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there tour heart will be also. btw..that was Jesus speaking. Christians, all agree that our greatest treasure or riches will be after this life with our Saviour, Jesus. Treasures and riches here on earth mean nothing without the love and salvation of our LORD.

Next Ricky says: "He will give us all the strength we need to find riches that some of us never knew exisited. Well, to me Rick was actually saying, by staying in Gods word and continually bring the "good news" for all to hear, that many WILL come to know Christ and what true riches are. He has expressed hope that all will be saved..

How about you Neo? Rick has brought us a wonderful and beautiful hope for all. If you don't care to know His true intentions, why do you post and make light of what others reconize as good will and the love of Christ....Would just love for you to be and have a part of that.......I'm praying for ya! .....love barb

Well said Barb

[Loco01]

Most people don't read the Bible on their own. They only know about the Bible from what their preacher

tells them or maybe study groups,Sunday school.

You personally need to read the Bible to be able to understand it, You cannot delegate this it will not work.

If you start at the beginning and allow the Holy Spirit to come into your heart you will be so surprised how it all starts falling into place.

You will begin to understand you the Holy Spirit,Angels,Satan,Jesus and God.

How it all works and you will know it is the truth.

All because you let the Holy Spirit in your heart to guide you.The Holy Spirit will not force himself on you

You need to accept him when he comes and he will when your ready.

You will understand where we came from where we are at where we are going and how we got here

and it is all so simple.

People are always looking for Utopia. We live,love, work and kill right next to it.

We are just too blind to see it because Satan has us looking at the wrong things.

I am going to tell now to find Utopia

If the whole world would take the millions of laws that they think are needed to run this planet

and trash them.

For Utopia you only need ten. That's right the ten commandments.

If all nations and all people would adopt these ten laws not just on paper but in their hearts

Wars would cease,the poor and inflicted would be cared for hunger would be unheard of

except in cases of natural disasters.

Don't Believe Me? Read the Bible.

[NEODinar]

<br /><font size="3">Well Neo, if Ricky had not mentioned God and God's word in every sentence, I suppose I would not have taken this in a bibical meaning or heavenly meaning, but he did so I took it as the Holy Spirit lead me to take it....                                                                                            <br /><br /><br />Rick write:   <font face="Arial Black">God's word </font><font face="Arial">will give us the </font><font face="Arial Black">greatest riches.</font></font><font size="3"><font face="Arial">  For most Christians this brings to mind, Matthew 6:19-21......Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where theives break in and steal;  but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth or rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.  For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.       btw..that was Jesus speaking.  Christians, all agree that our greatest treasure or riches will be after this life with our Saviour, Jesus.  Treasures and riches here on earth mean nothing without the love and salvation of our LORD.                                                                                              <br /><br />Next Ricky says:  "He will give us all the strength we need to </font><font face="Arial Black">find riches</font></font><font size="3"><font face="Arial"> that some of us never knew exisited.   Well, to me Rick was actually saying, by staying in Gods word and continually bring the "good news" for all to hear, that many WILL come to know Christ and what true riches are.  He has expressed hope that all will be saved..                                                                                                                       <br /></font>How about you Neo?  Rick has brought us a wonderful and beautiful hope for all.  If you don't care to know His true intentions, why do you post and make light of what others reconize as good will and the love of Christ....Would just love for you to be and have a part of that.......I'm praying for ya! .....love barb  </font><br />

<br /><br /><br />

- Meh, merely semantics. Ahh, well gotta love the beauty of subjectivity. Interpretation seems to the mantra of scripture. One believers "heavenly glory" is another's "earthly riches" I suppose.

"Treasures and riches here on earth mean nothing without the love and salvation of our LORD"

- Might want to pass that message on to all those evangelical preachers who scam millions out of their money everyday".

" If you don't care to know His true intentions, why do you post and make light of what others reconize as good will and the love of Christ....Would just love for you to be and have a part of that.......I'm praying for ya! .....love barb "

Because I can and I find it interesting to debate with believers, hopefully i can shed some reason on to them to help end these myths little by little. Just as christians feel the need to save and pray for people, I feel the need to save and think for people. I'm thinking for ya Barb, sorry I can't say I love ya, I don't even know ya, but perhaps you'll grow on me. Take care

<br />Most people don't read the Bible on their own. They only know about the Bible from what their preacher <br />tells them or maybe study groups,Sunday school.<br /><br />You personally need to read the Bible to be able to understand it, You cannot delegate this it will not work.<br />If you start at the beginning and allow the Holy Spirit to come into your heart you will be so surprised how it all starts falling into place.<br />You will begin to understand you the Holy Spirit,Angels,Satan,Jesus and God. <br />How it all works and you will know it is the truth.<br />All because you let the Holy Spirit in your heart to guide you.The Holy Spirit will not force himself on you<br />You need to accept him when he comes and he will when your ready. <br /><br />You will understand where we came from where we are at where we are going and how we got here <br />and it is all so simple.<br /><br />People are always looking for Utopia. We live,love, work and kill right next to it.<br />We are just too blind to see it because Satan has us looking at the wrong things.<br /><br />I am going to tell now to find Utopia <br />If the whole world would take the millions of laws that they think are needed to run this planet <br />and trash them.<br /><br />For Utopia you only need ten. That's right the ten commandments.<br />If all nations and all people would adopt these ten laws not just on paper but in their hearts<br />Wars would cease,the poor and inflicted would be cared for hunger would be unheard of<br />except in cases of natural disasters.<br /><br />Don't Believe Me? Read the Bible.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Iv'e read the bible, and still think it's nonsense, so apparently there's more to becoming a believer then simply reading a book.

[cris]

Does evil exist?

A university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?

A student bravely replied yes, he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes, sir," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil."

The student became quiet before such an answer.

The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat.

The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does".

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. "These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

Edited June 17, 2012 by cris

[TPSprayduster]

Faith, God gives you a choice either you choose to believe or you don't. My Faith is that i will have answer for everything i have done in my life. I pray my faith will bring me though. Now others have opinions if God really exist. Some say were brought here from another world. Others say the pyramids could not be built by hand. Everyone has a belief. Everyone has a choice. My belief and choice is God does exist, if he is plan is to destroy this world then it is his plan. I am fine with that. Thanks

[cris]

This is a funny one maybe heard before

worth repeating though.

A college professor, an avowed atheist and active in the ACLU, was teaching his class. He shocked several of his students when he flatly stated that once and for all he was going to prove there was no God.

Addressing the ceiling he shouted: "GOD, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes!!!!!"

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop.

Ten minutes went by. " I'm waiting God, if you're real knock me off this platform!!!!"

Again after 4 minutes, the professor taunted God saying, "Here I am, God!!! I'm still waiting!!!"

His count down got down to the last couple of minutes when a SEAL, just released from the Navy after serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and newly registered in the class, walked up to the Professor.

The SEAL hit him full force in the face, and sent the Professor tumbling from his lofty platform. The Professor was out cold!!

The students were stunned and shocked. They began to babble in confusion.

The SEAL nonchalantly took his seat in the front row and sat silent. The class looked at him and fell silent.....waiting.

Eventually, the professor came to and was noticeably shaken.

He looked at the SEAL in the front row. When the professor regained his senses and could speak he asked: "What is the matter with you? Why did you do that?

"God was really busy, protecting America's soldiers, who are protecting your right to say whatever silly thing comes to your mind!!! So he sent me!!"

[Black Swan]

It would seem while some will have endless riches, some of us will burn:

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

[bamagirl]

This is a funny one maybe heard before

worth repeating though.

A college professor, an avowed atheist and active in the ACLU, was teaching his class. He shocked several of his students when he flatly stated that once and for all he was going to prove there was no God.

Addressing the ceiling he shouted: "GOD, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes!!!!!"

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop.

Ten minutes went by. " I'm waiting God, if you're real knock me off this platform!!!!"

Again after 4 minutes, the professor taunted God saying, "Here I am, God!!! I'm still waiting!!!"

His count down got down to the last couple of minutes when a SEAL, just released from the Navy after serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and newly registered in the class, walked up to the Professor.

The SEAL hit him full force in the face, and sent the Professor tumbling from his lofty platform. The Professor was out cold!!

The students were stunned and shocked. They began to babble in confusion.

The SEAL nonchalantly took his seat in the front row and sat silent. The class looked at him and fell silent.....waiting.

Eventually, the professor came to and was noticeably shaken.

He looked at the SEAL in the front row. When the professor regained his senses and could speak he asked: "What is the matter with you? Why did you do that?

"God was really busy, protecting America's soldiers, who are protecting your right to say whatever silly thing comes to your mind!!! So he sent me!!"

Love this Cris, loved the first one too!

[cris]

Love this Cris, loved the first one too!

Thanks bamagirl.....That first one is the best refutation

to an atheists argument I've ever read, and I love that message

It seemed appropriate to the direction the

thread was taking

[bamagirl]

Thanks bamagirl.....That first one is the best refutation

to an atheists argument I've ever read, and I love that message

It seemed appropriate to the direction the

thread was taking

I have read the first one before, liked it the best too...