THE $50,000 DOLLAR BAG OF GROCERIES......

[dinarck]

First, and only question to any of you. Has anyone ever considered what is digital money when considering how much dinar is out. M1 and M2 figures do not state it and what comes into the auctions and goes out certainly could be digital to any one of the other banks. Just like how the US removes bills off our street. Last I checked, were still 15.2 trillion in the hole, but yet somehow the federal reserve manages to move trillions upon trillions of USD through the banks monthly.

So just because the CBI says they have 30 trillion out, does not mean it is in hard cash. Hard cash in the Iraqi economy, could be 1 billion today. This is information you and I will never get. And is exactly why this debate will never end. Not enough info, and if this proves correct, every lopter on this thread will be in gross error.

Legolas, I do respect your wisdom, but even you should realize we have never had enough information to complete this puzzle from the start. Could you guys be right, could it go down the way you theroize..... Yes, however, I could be right too. 5o one way and 50 the other. Since Bush jr stated that the war will pay for itself, I choose to believe we have a payday coming up. I also have a pdf copy of declassified dept of the states intention of a 1 to 1 with the hope that one day they could bring it back to the glory days. That report was written by our govt with your $. We all know about the inflation and so on. But I belive the real truth to how this will play out, lies right in the digital numbers. Theres much more, but Ive made my point here to all of you.

Aaaahhh the "plan". That doesnt say anything about a RV to 1. As a matter of fact it talks about before the currency was even printed if I recall. So that would mean the IQD would have been redenominated at the time of its inception which it wasnt. So now its not nor will it be without a RD which Iraq is clear in stating that they are doing.

[jmw]

Jmw. Like how the usa can cover all our existing debts? They can't. Why is iraq different?

The US is a fiat currency...it is traded on the open market and given a value based on what people think it is worth relative to other currencies...based on the direction we are going you are correct it that it may not be sustainable.

but it is very different than Iraq that is a pegged currency that is backed 100% in order to maintain it's value...the US can't just make our dollar worth 100000% more than all other currencies...just as Iraq can't

First, and only question to any of you. Has anyone ever considered what is digital money when considering how much dinar is out. M1 and M2 figures do not state it and what comes into the auctions and goes out certainly could be digital to any one of the other banks. Just like how the US removes bills off our street. Last I checked, were still 15.2 trillion in the hole, but yet somehow the federal reserve manages to move trillions upon trillions of USD through the banks monthly.

So just because the CBI says they have 30 trillion out, does not mean it is in hard cash. Hard cash in the Iraqi economy, could be 1 billion today. This is information you and I will never get. And is exactly why this debate will never end. Not enough info, and if this proves correct, every lopter on this thread will be in gross error.

Legolas, I do respect your wisdom, but even you should realize we have never had enough information to complete this puzzle from the start. Could you guys be right, could it go down the way you theroize..... Yes, however, I could be right too. 5o one way and 50 the other. Since Bush jr stated that the war will pay for itself, I choose to believe we have a payday coming up. I also have a pdf copy of declassified dept of the states intention of a 1 to 1 with the hope that one day they could bring it back to the glory days. That report was written by our govt with your $. We all know about the inflation and so on. But I belive the real truth to how this will play out, lies right in the digital numbers. Theres much more, but Ive made my point here to all of you.

Check the CBI financials for "money outside of banks"...that is currency in the open market and I believe is around 30 trillion IQD.

[sonny1]

Well caughtinthecrossfire I will give your post a shot.

I already posted the definition of inflation and it is totally relevant to the aftermath of a RV that you describe. A mass amount of money chasing few goods and services would quickly cause the "RVed" currency to inflate to rediculous levels. By the way each one of the points I am making here is why a 100,000% RV never has and never will be done.

Next you talk about the price of oil. A country that exports oil sells that oil on the open market and the GOVORNMENT profits. There is a huge difference than millions of citizens becoming millionares overnight. So inflation insnt an issue here. As a matter of fact sales of oil would prop up foreign reserves to fight off any inflation occuring in the economy.

Next you talk about people around the world investing in Iraq which is true. What does this have to do with their hyperinflated currency? If anything it is motivation to RD and erase the effects of past hyperinflation so that the new currency could benefit from the economic growth.

Next is something about imports but I kind of fail to follow you. I will say that Iraq would benefit from a higher exchange rate to make imports cheaper but only after a RD because a 1000 times overnight increase isnt possible.

Next you state that a significant RV would not cause chaos or hyperinflation but I think we have shown reasonably that it would. If you disagree here then please state why so we can discuss.

Next you talk about contracts and loans being adjusted or not but again these points are moot since a RV of this magnitude is fantasy. For the sake of discussion we will talk about hypotheticals. In my opinion any contracts, mortages loans ect would be adjsuted with a massive RV. You would only have to pay the value you originally owed but it doesnt really matter because it will never happen.

Next you attempt to address the change issue but that doesnt really hold much water. Daily business would not be possible. Period.

Then you say that if a RD is such a good solution then why havent they done it years ago. I would ask the same about the "RV".

If you truely want to hear all of these any many other points from an actual economist with epic credentials then I suggest searching back a little ways here in the LOP section for a post called interview with John Jagerson. Kind of hard to argue with what he has to say.

jagerson is an idiot, sorry, not trying to be rude, but he is the guy who said it was against the law to own dinar, jagerson? really dinarck your going to go there, your reaching now

[DinarSeeker]

Aaaahhh the "plan". That doesnt say anything about a RV to 1. As a matter of fact it talks about before the currency was even printed if I recall. So that would mean the IQD would have been redenominated at the time of its inception which it wasnt. So now its not nor will it be without a RD which Iraq is clear in stating that they are doing.

Hard to say with any certainty, if thier monetary supply of hard cash is low like I think it is. then no redenomination would be necessary as digital money will not be covered under the three zero removal. Seems to me that this would be the best, and easiest venue for them to reduce the cash regarding M1m2 figures.

I would like to think Shabibi is a smart guy and that each auction he was holding daily, he was removing hard cash without removing the monetary number. If he did, it would have created inflation, so we see more money added to the economy over the last year. That doesnt mean it was hard cash.

Ive talked about this for a couple of years now and keep falling on deaf ears. It does answer every question on this thread and Legolas original post. I do see this both ways, so dont think im here to poke. But this is the best logic to me that shabs would follow. remove hard cash and starve the economy without messing with inflation.

Oh, and yes, it does state a 1 to 1...... read the NID currency section where it goes into 1IQD = 6000 rials = fills ect. = 1USD

[dinarck]

jagerson is an idiot, sorry, not trying to be rude, but he is the guy who said it was against the law to own dinar, jagerson? really dinarck your going to go there, your reaching now

So this guy is an idiot? Seems you maybe further gone than I thought. By the way its good to have you on my friends list. Thanks for that sonny and I am not being sarcastic.

John: I graduated from Utah Valley University with a degree in Business Administration where I emphasized in accounting and finance. I later completed the PLD at Harvard that has a strong international business focus. I have spent most of my career as an entrepreneur, which led me in two directions that eventually converged to form my current occupation. The first direction was to become involved in private equity (AKA venture and angel capital), which gave me experience in investment and risk analysis. The second was my experience (early in my career) importing products and equipment from Asia. While I was doing that I was frequently hedging currency risk and the currency-trading bug bit me. I haven’t turned back.

In 2003 I left entrepreneurship briefly and went to work with Investools, which was a roll-up of several online companies focused on investor education and information. Investools later acquired the options-brokerage thinkorswim (Barrons’ #1 rated), which was later acquired by TDAmeritrade after I left the company. I was a Vice President at the firm and was responsible for content, training, and client education. Working at thinkorswim Group I had the opportunity to get to know how individual investors work. This gave me a lot of insight into the biggest mistakes they make as well as the commonalities among successful traders.

For a brief period I was also a principle for a small CTA (NFA registered) focusing on forex trading, but left the industry when regulation changes in the U.S. pushed so many domestic traders overseas. I currently still write two option advisory letters that have done well. I ended 2011 profitably, which is “pretty good” in my book even if I didn’t blow the doors off.

I have written three books published by McGraw Hill. Two of these were about the international currency market or “Forex”. The third is on gold investing. I am currently writing a book on the coming (in my opinion) bond market collapse. I regularly write and record videos for online publications including Nasdaq.com, Scottrade, International Stock Exchange (ISE), LearningMarkets.com, Mint (an Intuit company) and Alpari among others.

[jmw]

Hard to say with any certainty, if thier monetary supply of hard cash is low like I think it is. then no redenomination would be necessary as digital money will not be covered under the three zero removal. Seems to me that this would be the best, and easiest venue for them to reduce the cash regarding M1m2 figures.

I would like to think Shabibi is a smart guy and that each auction he was holding daily, he was removing hard cash without removing the monetary number. If he did, it would have created inflation, so we see more money added to the economy over the last year. That doesnt mean it was hard cash.

Ive talked about this for a couple of years now and keep falling on deaf ears. It does answer every question on this thread and Legolas original post. I do see this both ways, so dont think im here to poke. But this is the best logic to me that shabs would follow. remove hard cash and starve the economy without messing with inflation.

Oh, and yes, it does state a 1 to 1...... read the NID currency section where it goes into 1IQD = 6000 rials = fills ect. = 1USD

Electronic currency is the same as physical...if it RV's it RV's all of it...if it RD's it RD's all of it...plus the CBI states their money outside of banks is 28 Trillion...see line 79 here:

http://cbi.iq/documents/key%20financial.xls

[sonny1]

dinarck, ok, he isnt an idiot, but his dinar chalkboard discussion, was embarrassing, he was wrong on almost every point he made.

my professor of economics friend has a phd from berkeley and he was laughing at jagersons embarrassment.

by the way my phd friend says that rd'ing isnt even in iraqs mindset.

he is registered on here, he has posted a few times, but he hates the internet, i should see if he will come on and duke it out with you guys. his name is nawty1. i signed him up about 2 months ago, ill try to get him to come on, but i doubt he will, he has a life outside of the dinar world, unlike most of us. lol

why are you surprised that your on my friends page, your a good guy, i think your dinarily challenged, but i know your a good guy, i like our debate, you know i have had your back............sometimes. lol

[dinarck]

Hard to say with any certainty, if thier monetary supply of hard cash is low like I think it is. then no redenomination would be necessary as digital money will not be covered under the three zero removal. Seems to me that this would be the best, and easiest venue for them to reduce the cash regarding M1m2 figures.

I would like to think Shabibi is a smart guy and that each auction he was holding daily, he was removing hard cash without removing the monetary number. If he did, it would have created inflation, so we see more money added to the economy over the last year. That doesnt mean it was hard cash.

Ive talked about this for a couple of years now and keep falling on deaf ears. It does answer every question on this thread and Legolas original post. I do see this both ways, so dont think im here to poke. But this is the best logic to me that shabs would follow. remove hard cash and starve the economy without messing with inflation.

Oh, and yes, it does state a 1 to 1...... read the NID currency section where it goes into 1IQD = 6000 rials = fills ect. = 1USD

Why would a country remove the majority of their money supply from circulation so that they could RV? What good would that do Iraq? Obviously when they "remove" currency from circulation they are holding it in vaults right? So they now remove 20 trillion dinar and then overnight they say the 20 trillion they just removed is now worth 20 trillion USD? What gives them the authority to create equal to a third of the exsisting wealth on the planet for themselves? Why not print another 60 trillion right before you "declare" it worth 1000 times more? O maybe they are destroying the dinar. Yeah. They are paying billions of USD for their own currency so that they can destroy it and then make you an overnight millionare.

And no it doesnt say that they will RV to 1. Like I said it speaks of before the currency was even out. It also speaks of all those decisions to be made by the CBI and the CBI decided not to redenominate it at that time for reasons unknown. What we do know is that the dinar is still in a hyperinflated state and "RVing" out of a hyperinflated state is impossible unless done gradually over a very long period of time. When this whole dinar fiasco was being hatched pumpers started researching for anything that they could spin to mean RV and obviously that was one of their tools that plenty seemed to happy to believe.

[Darin]

Aaaahhh the "plan". That doesnt say anything about a RV to 1. As a matter of fact it talks about before the currency was even printed if I recall. So that would mean the IQD would have been redenominated at the time of its inception which it wasnt. So now its not nor will it be without a RD which Iraq is clear in stating that they are doing.

Going off of memory: But previous redominations include countries that introduce a new government and a currency to follow.

Wouldn't that situation be what Iraq was in?

They formed a new Govt by toppling the old regime

I think the bank control had changed

and.... Swiss Dinar was traded 150:1

I bet some would argue that it was a re-denomination.

[DinarSeeker]

Electronic currency is the same as physical...if it RV's it RV's all of it...if it RD's it RD's all of it...plus the CBI states their money outside of banks is 28 Trillion...see line 79 here:

http://cbi.iq/docume...20financial.xls

It says 28billion and some change outside the CBI? If thats the case, then they have plenty of reserve to back a nice RV. Really, its the only IQD they really have to honor. Unless they abandon the NID all together, an internationally recognized currency will have to be honored outside thier borders.

[dinarck]

dinarck, ok, he isnt an idiot, but his dinar chalkboard discussion, was embarrassing, he was wrong on almost every point he made.

my professor of economics friend has a phd from berkeley and he was laughing at jagersons embarrassment.

by the way my phd friend says that rd'ing isnt even in iraqs mindset.

he is registered on here, he has posted a few times, but he hates the internet, i should see if he will come on and duke it out with you guys. his name is nawty1. i signed him up about 2 months ago, ill try to get him to come on, but i doubt he will, he has a life outside of the dinar world, unlike most of us. lol

why are you surprised that your on my friends page, your a good guy, i think your dinarily challenged, but i know your a good guy, i like our debate, you know i have had your back............sometimes. lol

Havent seen his chalkboard video but something tells me it is probably spot on. The guy has never said anything that I could find fault in because he knows what he is talking about. If you know of this video please post it so we can make our own judgements.

I am sorry sonny but if an economics professor is telling you that a RD isnt in Iraqs mind set then all I can say is I hope he isnt ten-yeared because that is all Iraq has been saying that they are doing daily for years. They are passing laws to make it happen. They are about priont the new currency. How obvious can it get? We dont need an economist to tell us otherwise because anyone with half a brain can see it.

I appreciate you having my back. Something tells me I could use it.

[HopefulTxn]

It says 28billion and some change outside the CBI? If thats the case, then they have plenty of reserve to back a nice RV. Really, its the only IQD they really have to honor. Unless they abandon the NID all together, an internationally recognized currency will have to be honored outside thier borders.

Uh, sorry but since the text in row 47 column B states that all numbers are written in billions of dinar, the 28,035 means that it is 28,035 billion dinar... 28,035 billion IS 28.035 trillion...

[jmw]

It says 28billion and some change outside the CBI? If thats the case, then they have plenty of reserve to back a nice RV. Really, its the only IQD they really have to honor. Unless they abandon the NID all together, an internationally recognized currency will have to be honored outside thier borders.

It says 28000 billion...which is 28 trillion.

[dinarck]

Going off of memory: But previous redominations include countries that introduce a new government and a currency to follow.

Wouldn't that situation be what Iraq was in?

They formed a new Govt by toppling the old regime

I think the bank control had changed

and.... Swiss Dinar was traded 150:1

I bet some would argue that it was a re-denomination.

I agree Darin. I am at a loss as to why they didnt RD right then and there unless there were factors in play the we arent privy too. No I dont mean a plan to RV to 1 just issues in the economy that didnt allow it at the time. Maybe something none of us have considered is that the "plan" from the get go was to raise the value of the dinar over decades instead of overnight. Trillions would be made either way but only one way is possible. The US thinks in terms of decades when it comes to economics so why should this be any different. I mean just look at the last 9 or so years. The value has doubled. Whats to say that couldnt continue for the next 20 or 30 or 40 years? What all this RD talk is all about is beyond me if in fact the plan is decades long increase but one thing I know for sure is it cant happen overnight. If that was possible then all countries would do it. It would totally change the dinamics of economics forever and talk about fiat currencies being created. I dont see how the globe could sustain that.

[Frogee]

Try this: A coke costs $1.00 US or 1166 Dinar. You pay for it with a 5000 Dinar note and get 3834 Dinar in change.You can still buy 3 more cokes. Now take the 3 "0"s away. The coke still costs $1.00 US and still 1166 Dinar. So now you give him a "New" 5 Dinar and you gets 3.86 Dinar in change. No more cokes.

[sonny1]

Havent seen his chalkboard video but something tells me it is probably spot on. The guy has never said anything that I could find fault in because he knows what he is talking about. If you know of this video please post it so we can make our own judgements.

I am sorry sonny but if an economics professor is telling you that a RD isnt in Iraqs mind set then all I can say is I hope he isnt ten-yeared because that is all Iraq has been saying that they are doing daily for years. They are passing laws to make it happen. They are about priont the new currency. How obvious can it get? We dont need an economist to tell us otherwise because anyone with half a brain can see it.

I appreciate you having my back. Something tells me I could use it.

laws?

printing a new currency is great for them to rv, how else are they going to make change?

jagersons chalk board session, was embarrassing.

my eco guy is clutch, he, and his friends at ernst & young, say iraqs numbers are a complete lie to get there debt relieved, he told me this years ago........it seems to have worked, dont ya think.

i have never been more sure that they will rv, i think you rd'ers seem to think that i am in the $3.00 camp, i am not, i think we will get .10-.25, that is what they will end up doing.

I agree Darin. I am at a loss as to why they didnt RD right then and there unless there were factors in play the we arent privy too. No I dont mean a plan to RV to 1 just issues in the economy that didnt allow it at the time. Maybe something none of us have considered is that the "plan" from the get go was to raise the value of the dinar over decades instead of overnight. Trillions would be made either way but only one way is possible. The US thinks in terms of decades when it comes to economics so why should this be any different. I mean just look at the last 9 or so years. The value has doubled. Whats to say that couldnt continue for the next 20 or 30 or 40 years? What all this RD talk is all about is beyond me if in fact the plan is decades long increase but one thing I know for sure is it cant happen overnight. If that was possible then all countries would do it. It would totally change the dinamics of economics forever and talk about fiat currencies being created. I dont see how the globe could sustain that.

if they print the new currency like they say, it wont be 20-40 years it will be more like 3-6 months, they need a new currency so when they rv, they will need to be able to make change.

[dinarck]

laws?

printing a new currency is great for them to rv, how else are they going to make change?

jagersons chalk board session, was embarrassing.

my eco guy is clutch, he, and his friends at ernst & young, say iraqs numbers are a complete lie to get there debt relieved, he told me this years ago........it seems to have worked, dont ya think.

i have never been more sure that they will rv, i think you rd'ers seem to think that i am in the $3.00 camp, i am not, i think we will get .10-.25, that is what they will end up doing.

I know that you truely believe it sonny and I want to believe it too but it isnt possible overnight. There are simply too many unanswer questions that forbid it. I wish it were the case but it simply isnt. Maybe over decades like I speculated above. I mean that would be good. All we have to do is survive another 30 years or so. Kind of like having a trust that you cant touch till you get to a certain age. LOL. If it did RV tomorrow to 1 to tell you the truth my first reaction would probably be fear because that means the game has changed and would result in a global collapse under the weight of 100s of countries declaring their currencies worth what ever they want. I would use every penny on food, water, medicine, and an underground bunker.

[caughtinthecrossfire]

DINARK!!

I'm sorry it took me more than two hours to reply...it took nearly an hour just to type this so that it FULLY answered ( ?) the questions you asked me.

Oy...I've really commited myself, haven't I. LOL...ok, deep breath as I start and remember...I'm not versed in economics.

Most of my post was hoping to get answers...as some of your reply gave ( ty ).

Let me mark your comments in green to make it easier to follow (since Legolas took blue, he he)

"I already posted the definition of inflation....." Yes, you did, and I was commenting that Iraq would not attempt hyperinflation practices and would infact deter the use of them in the market (for probobly the initial few years anyway). Remember...Iraq is nothing like the U.S. in terms of being so market driven that they hyperinflate at a whim of the marketplace...at least not yet. My point was to say that UNLIKE THE U.S., they have a set USD value of goods and services required by those materials, goods, services, contracts...ect...and just because a dinar will buy another loaf of bread more than it used to...does not mean the bread will double in price. Indeed...the imports that Iraq sustains will not hyperinflate because they are currently trying to set those trade standards as we speak. You can do your own research from the articles recently released but I drew my own conclusion already. They are making sure, I feel confident in guessing, that exporters will NOT attempt to double or even quadrouple their asking prices just because Iraq's currency is suddenly reflecting a more realistic value. The dollar did not change in this senario...the IQD changed. Let me make a point...imports are a GOOD thing going for Iraq in that respect right now because (prior to an RV) there is very little IN country to hyperinflate. What you suggest with this simple comment is that (just for instance) the U.S. will suddenly charge 2billion for wheat imported to Iraq instead of a prior RV amount of 1billion. I do not see any possible truth to that future outcome...or Iraq would never do business with a U.S. company (or some other) again. As far as internal pricing goes...every vendor for bread/wheat will have to respect the demands of the government in their consumer relations. ESPECIALLY in Iraq...that is, again, nothing like in the U.S.! Please remember this distinction throughout my thoughts and always recall that We have had 200+ years of free market to go nuts in an instant.

"Next you talk about the price of oil...." I'm not going into that one. I did not go into the price so much as used it ONLY as one example of what Iraq uses to back its currency value. Related to other countries with higher populations and more poverty and less production and less reserves...it was a great simple example. Again...only mentioned it as on of many things backing the IQD value in the future (and future faith in the value) and made a strong mention of the fact the IQD is reflecting a market value while it is an UNTRADEABLE currency. When it goes global...you will not be seeing the IQD this weak, I assure you. Make no mistake that in and of itself...this statement I just made is huge even for someone as unversed as myself.

"Next you talk about people around the world investing in Iraq which is true. What does this have to do with their hyperinflated currency?" What has hyperinflation got to do with my statement at that point in my post? I was already talking infrastructure of banking, oil export efficiency, import vs. export merchendise...and about the potential for an RV (1:1 as an example) to instantly impact poverty and promote entrepreneurship. I did not in any way suggest some CRAZY RV amount or say it would equal Kuwait. I was using Kuwait as an example by population and production of oil specifically as a gauge for my coment. Also, I never suggested infrastructure was in place enough for free market to pollute the economy with hyperinflation so quickly. You are again...placing such a huge "wolf! wolf!" thought process here that I see as premature. PLEASE do not take that as insulting...I'm doing my best not to sound like some hick from the woods (which I'm not far from being) and I may miss use the larger words. ha ha. However, hyperinflation we see in established infrastructures will in no way be equal to what we might expect from Iraq over several years.

"Next is something about imports but I kind of fail to follow you. I will say that Iraq would benefit from a higher exchange rate to make imports cheaper but only after a RD because a 1000 times overnight increase isnt possible." Ok...I think I kind of covered this above. I was using wheat/grain/produce imports primarily as a way to show the dependency Iraq has on these things currently. However, I took the time to clearly show that Iraq is returning to it's strong and self sustaining days of the agriculture and produce market. My more precise use of this was to indicate that expendatures that paid the market would not be budgeted at such a cost in the future. The implication was that the cost of some imports would redirect to spending on an internal budget that would promote and sustain agricultural workers being paid for their product that the Kurdistan region is already trying to redevelope.

"Next you state that a significant RV would not cause chaos or hyperinflation but I think we have shown reasonably that it would. If you disagree here then please state why so we can discuss." First off...no, I do not think it will cause chaos but then, I'm not suggesting a $12 dolloar RV either. Secondly...my original reply to the post was more of an "I asked you first" mentality. I'm still looking for any good reason that you can back up that implies that chaos will ensure, riots will break out, murders will take place...as made mention in the opening of this thread. So again, politely, I asked you first, and I'm still waiting. But to be fair and answer your request for me to "state why" , I will simply suggest this...no where in the history that I can recall have I witnessed news that a country's RV of it's currency caused utter chaos and riots and killings. The ball is back in your court on that one. I'd love to see the facts but would hate to know they proved me wrong at someone elses injury.

"Next you talk about contracts and loans being adjusted....You would only have to pay the value you originally owed but it doesnt really matter because it will never happen." There were too many points on this one that came to my mind...so I'll do my best to keep it short. First...who is saying it will never RV? Even the opening of this post suggested it will RV but after an RD only. I say the RD is past its prime for effect and that RV is the real point Iraq was waiting to perform. Your full comment earlier was this RV was pure fantasy but then agian, I never said anything about a $12 RV and only used 1:1 for simplicity. Can it RV at an incredible 10 cent?? I think that horse is dead, now. My real point in the section you are referring to debunked some earlier comment that part of the CHAOS CHAOS would come from interest rates and loans and contracts going off the RV deep end. I simply made a very unmistakeable and solid reply to that and said...no.....an RV would not change a contract based off a former exchange rate. Could contracts have a grace period to save from non compete laws? I'm not a lawyer...but I have enough since to know that massive Exxon contracts would have a loophole the government agreed on somewhere in fine print.

"Next you attempt to address the change issue but that doesnt really hold much water. Daily business would not be possible. Period." First I would like to admit...I attempted, HA HA HA...and freely admit that any numbers other than 0 and 1 confuse the hell out of me especially when offered in fractional and sometimes decimal form. HOW EVA!! I have to ask why you said daily business would not be possible? Haven't we all seen where two currencies coexist? If there is an RD as was suggested...I'm simply assuming (as clearly stated in my earlier comments) that the lower Denoms will be sent to out lying cities provences for easily recoverable exchanges and that those with enough money/social standing would easily afford a trip to the big city to exchange their big wads. Almost, I implied persons would get an offer for (one time maybe as an after thought to my statement?) exchange of very small amounts of current dinar bills. Iraq has addressed a possiblility of using phones to manage (now more beneficial) bank accounts and transactions for rural Iraq. Even the poor are not to destitute that they have no phones it would seem. period

"Then you say that if a RD is such a good solution then why havent they done it years ago. I would ask the same about the "RV"

" Omigosh, I'll try, my friend, but I am soooooo tired. I've been trying to do you justice and not give some HACK job of a reply. I may not have much wisdom in the workings of economics but I am never going to avoid backing up my thoughts for fear of being the fool because I'm here to learn and not Troll for debate...so...with that disclaimer...(and after saying "thank you!!" for the patience with my lengthy reply and delay in posting)...

I recall back in late 2010...especially the spring of 2011...there was so very much discussion of "LOP...RD...there will never be an RV". The LOP and RD models were the ones being debated so heavily from late 2010-early 2011 and the one thing they all kept saying was that the timing of implimenting it was based off of the core rate of inflation. I followed those rates as long as my brain could bear it...but even after the dipped to this low magic number and slowly began to climb again...there was NO RD...no LOP. If the LOP was supposed to halt inflation, please explain to me why they did not institute it when the curve reached the lowest point and inflation began to slowly rise again? For all of the arguments...for all of the incessant bravado of who knew what...they kept saying the inflation rate was the key and must be held down for a lengthy(whatever that ment) period of time and slowly begin rising before Shabs LOP'd or RD'd. I would also point out that although the two are different, please do not waste your time trying to explain the distinction because both are the same, really. There isn't enough of a distinction between the two outside some electronic jargon to get my interests again.

Anyway...I wish searches could pull up some of these old posts. There were many at one time. You would probobly see my first attempts to get more answers too. No matter how I look at it...info for the RD and for the RV has been rehashed to ribbons. The only tipping point for me was seeing so many people say why an RD would occur. It boiled down to inflation. That boiling point came and went last June. The new bills should have been produced then if RD was the solution to a plan that is now in phase two...no, I think RD was the cover for an RV. But none of the statements above make me think that an RD is more proboble than and RV.

The only thing I do agree with is the opening statement of this post in that the two could occur at the same time. I, however, think the RD is an afterthought to the RV. RD does not neccesarily require an RV...but an RV does require an RD at some point to make exchange easier and currency viable for wear/tear outside of Iraq (ha ha ha, and soon to be INSIDE Iraq!). A RV requires timing unlike an RD if I have understood any of the stuff that has been posted about LoPs for the last two years and and RD moment was when inflation dipped low then began to rise again. The cost was everybit as recoverable and neccesary then as it is now, is it not? The timing, however, is far too late by almost a year and any delay excuse is rediculous if the RD is so simple and succesful. Can you give me one good reason an RD would take this long? I could continue searching the heavens for one....BUT...

yes...this is my big'ol but...

I think when Shabs says the dinar will be strong...he means global value and there IS a push for something global from Iraq.

[DinarSeeker]

Why would a country remove the majority of their money supply from circulation so that they could RV? What good would that do Iraq? Obviously when they "remove" currency from circulation they are holding it in vaults right? So they now remove 20 trillion dinar and then overnight they say the 20 trillion they just removed is now worth 20 trillion USD? What gives them the authority to create equal to a third of the exsisting wealth on the planet for themselves? Why not print another 60 trillion right before you "declare" it worth 1000 times more? O maybe they are destroying the dinar. Yeah. They are paying billions of USD for their own currency so that they can destroy it and then make you an overnight millionare.

And no it doesnt say that they will RV to 1. Like I said it speaks of before the currency was even out. It also speaks of all those decisions to be made by the CBI and the CBI decided not to redenominate it at that time for reasons unknown. What we do know is that the dinar is still in a hyperinflated state and "RVing" out of a hyperinflated state is impossible unless done gradually over a very long period of time. When this whole dinar fiasco was being hatched pumpers started researching for anything that they could spin to mean RV and obviously that was one of their tools that plenty seemed to happy to believe.

Why? thats the price they will pay for us to remove the dictator. Freedom, what price have you paid for yours? This started in the political arena, and is where it will end. You dont think we went over there unannnouced do you? Politics needed an excuse to get its foot in the door. and those cards were played so this plan could start. If you look at the scope of this. It was never just about Iraq, It was about that can that has been kicked down the road so many times regarding our own economy. Our debt that we cant pay back, all 99.4 trillion of it.

What threat did Saddam pose? no more threat than Kim jon ill and they have proven active nuclear technology. What threat does Iran have against the US? nothing really. What threat does pakistan have against us? More than Iran, they have nukes, and an ICBM to put it on, yet here we are picking a fight with Iran because of Oil. North korea, pakistan, no oil. Syria, Iran... oil. And since we are oil dependant globally, we help defend it. For a price. OUr blood sweat and tears for ?

As for your'rv to 1 comment. You couldnt be more delusional. It clearly states that the dept of the state has had an intended plan..... one that they would like to see come to fruition for the great nation of Iraq. and it clearly shows a numerical value like this........ 1IQD= 6000rials = 1000 fills = 1USD........ in that order. Agreed, it does say for them to ultimately determine thier own rate..... a responsibility they must endure and pay in the end. That really goes without saying right.

Since we have liberated them..... its time to pay the piper.

I have no idea where or who coined the word" pumper" and I dont really care. The question you need to ask youself before you continue on is this: Could Iraq, have digital money and if so, how much?

Plays a big factor in the outcome either way.

I think I have shown you justifiable cause, that they would be repaying us for liberation. I just wish that it wasnt under the lives lost to obtain it from our militaries

[sonny1]

I know that you truely believe it sonny and I want to believe it too but it isnt possible overnight. There are simply too many unanswer questions that forbid it. I wish it were the case but it simply isnt. Maybe over decades like I speculated above. I mean that would be good. All we have to do is survive another 30 years or so. Kind of like having a trust that you cant touch till you get to a certain age. LOL. If it did RV tomorrow to 1 to tell you the truth my first reaction would probably be fear because that means the game has changed and would result in a global collapse under the weight of 100s of countries declaring their currencies worth what ever they want. I would use every penny on food, water, medicine, and an underground bunker.

wow, your being a tad over dramatic dont ya think, this is different than all these other countries rv'ing to what ever they wanted.

the imf has to approve any and all rv's and rd's, and it happens that the imf-wb-u.s treasury have been over there helping them over the last 4 years or so.

it wouldnt be overnight, it is a plan that has been in the works for years, i feel so stupid sometimes thinking it could of happened years ago, but with all they are doing, and have done in the last 3-4 years, its extremely realistic that they will rv, and there smartest play.

[DinarSeeker]

It says 28000 billion...which is 28 trillion.

Jmw, have you seen it? it says in black and white very clearly....... Money Supply (End of period , in billions of Iraqi dinars)

Wouldnt it be just as easy to write trillions? Are you suggesting that something in print from the CBI is not correct? hmmmmm No need to go any futher with that one.

[dinarck]

Wow... I guess I am going to be here all night. Bear with me CTCF. Lets take this one step at a time. I will reply to each issue and then take care of some things and pick back up later. Feel free to chime in with a reply after each.

"I already posted the definition of inflation....." Yes, you did, and I was commenting that Iraq would not attempt hyperinflation practices and would infact deter the use of them in the market (for probobly the initial few years anyway). Remember...Iraq is nothing like the U.S. in terms of being so market driven that they hyperinflate at a whim of the marketplace...at least not yet. My point was to say that UNLIKE THE U.S., they have a set USD value of goods and services required by those materials, goods, services, contracts...ect...and just because a dinar will buy another loaf of bread more than it used to...does not mean the bread will double in price. Indeed...the imports that Iraq sustains will not hyperinflate because they are currently trying to set those trade standards as we speak. You can do your own research from the articles recently released but I drew my own conclusion already. They are making sure, I feel confident in guessing, that exporters will NOT attempt to double or even quadrouple their asking prices just because Iraq's currency is suddenly reflecting a more realistic value. The dollar did not change in this senario...the IQD changed. Let me make a point...imports are a GOOD thing going for Iraq in that respect right now because (prior to an RV) there is very little IN country to hyperinflate. What you suggest with this simple comment is that (just for instance) the U.S. will suddenly charge 2billion for wheat imported to Iraq instead of a prior RV amount of 1billion. I do not see any possible truth to that future outcome...or Iraq would never do business with a U.S. company (or some other) again. As far as internal pricing goes...every vendor for bread/wheat will have to respect the demands of the government in their consumer relations. ESPECIALLY in Iraq...that is, again, nothing like in the U.S.! Please remember this distinction throughout my thoughts and always recall that We have had 200+ years of free market to go nuts in an instant.

Here you are kind of backwards on your rational. The US is MUCH less likely to experience hyperinflation due to their massive GDP and the fact that they are a reserve currency with a high demand around the globe. Iraq has a currency already in a hyperinflated state and it is all they can do to keep it stable. I mean they have to flood their own market with USD just to keep the value of their currency from going into the crapper. They are a pegged currency. Pegged to the USD which is safe unlike the dinar. The dinar has no demand except from us who believe it will make us rich and Iraq uses this to their advantage to help prop up their foriegn reserves. Do we really believe that banks and the global market is suddenly going to accept dinar because the CBI says it is now worth 100 times or 1000 times more? It doesnt work that way.There is a reason they dont except it now and that is because it is a huge risk from an unstable country with an unsure future. Any country that has 60 trillions units of currency in existence is vulnerable to the possibility of massive future hyperinflation if they dont play their cards right. A card they do not posses is a 100,000% overnight RV because that card doesnt exsist. Only in dinar land on on this wonderful invention we call the internet.

wow, your being a tad over dramatic dont ya think, this is different than all these other countries rv'ing to what ever they wanted.

the imf has to approve any and all rv's and rd's, and it happens that the imf-wb-u.s treasury have been over there helping them over the last 4 years or so.

it wouldnt be overnight, it is a plan that has been in the works for years, i feel so stupid sometimes thinking it could of happened years ago, but with all they are doing, and have done in the last 3-4 years, its extremely realistic that they will rv, and there smartest play.

So Iraq is the only special one? Why would the US allow Iraq to do it but wouldnt allow themselves to? How come the Euro hasnt RVed themselves another 10 trillion Euros or how ever much they need to keep from collapsing? Maybe because its impossible?

[DinarSeeker]

So Iraq is the only special one? Why would the US allow Iraq to do it but wouldnt allow themselves to? How come the Euro hasnt RVed themselves another 10 trillion Euros or how ever much they need to keep from collapsing? Maybe because its impossible?

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/110621-the-50000-dollar-bag-of-groceries/page__st__60#ixzz1piRMkRGl

global superpowers have alot to lose and alot at stake. For example, if we redenominated, what happens to all other currencies pegged to the USD. Thats actually an interesting thought! Iraq has nothing and is nothing right now. An empty canvas with no rules. recently liberated and in need of everything.

[jmw]

Jmw, have you seen it? it says in black and white very clearly....... Money Supply (End of period , in billions of Iraqi dinars)

Wouldnt it be just as easy to write trillions? Are you suggesting that something in print from the CBI is not correct? hmmmmm No need to go any futher with that one.

Really?...have I seen it? ...you are correct is says...in billions of Iraqi Dinars....28,000....you are aware that 1000 billion = 1 trillion?....therefore 28,000 billion = 28 trillion...it doesn't matter if it is in billions or trillions it just matters that they pick one and represent it correctly...try re-reading it....I"m sure you can figure it out.

[dinarck]

OK CTCF. Here we go again.

"Next you talk about the price of oil...." I'm not going into that one. I did not go into the price so much as used it ONLY as one example of what Iraq uses to back its currency value. Related to other countries with higher populations and more poverty and less production and less reserves...it was a great simple example. Again...only mentioned it as on of many things backing the IQD value in the future (and future faith in the value) and made a strong mention of the fact the IQD is reflecting a market value while it is an UNTRADEABLE currency. When it goes global...you will not be seeing the IQD this weak, I assure you. Make no mistake that in and of itself...this statement I just made is huge even for someone as unversed as myself.

OK oil is not backing the value of the dinar nor will it ever. True oil is a major factor in Iraqs GDP but we are talking about a country with a GDP of around 150 billion. Come on. I mean really? They are going to create 60 trillion USD worth of currency overnight? I think Mickey Mouse has a better chance of pitching in the World Series next year. A country cannot use its oil futures to enhance the value of its currency. If so then please show one example because Russia would have the most exspensive currency in history. Look at Suadi. They are around .25 to the USD. This notion has been proven false many times. Lets also not forget Venezuela here. They had a RD and they are swimming in oil. Dont you think they would have "RVed" themselves trillions if they could?