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parmenio

"CONFISCATE and DESTROY ALL unauthorized civilian firearms..."

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If you like a good compact .308, and if you can find one, check out the KelTec RFB. I've got one, it takes the metric FAL mags (cheap), and is a great host to my 7.62 can. A great alternative to the tricked out and heavily modded M14. Not to suggest that the M14 is inferior in any way, the RFB is just a new path to the same location. I prefer it over my AR-10.

Then there's the KSG which -should- be out in 2012, if it ever makes it to market.

Shoot straight!

I will check it sir... Thanks for the heads up. M1A, AR-10, POF .308...$$$$$ KelTec makes a decent product. Is it a kit where you just need the FAL lower...? Cost?

You know what though... even if it was superior and the best and could shave an eyebrow at a 1000 meters... It wouldn't matter...

LOL The M14/M1A..., for me, is like that one girl in high school that you really wanted and could never have for whatever reason and always regreted not stepping up and asking her out...LOL

OH YA WELL NOT THIS TIME HIGH SCHOOL GIRL FRIEND OF MY PAST... YOU WILL BE MINE!!! AND YOUR NAME WILL BE THE EQUALIZER... BAH HAHAHAHA!!!!

Seeing that ranger reminded me of this video haha.

ARRRR DANG IT...! I'm at work... I'll have to check the vid when I get home "InNo"

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Today in the mail I received a letter from the office of Senator Rand Paul. In it, and without having to paraphrase the entire letter, it was an appeal to gun owners that Secretary of State Clinton has announced the Obama Administration will be working hand-in-hand with the UN to pass a NEW "UN Small Arms Treaty."

It will be designed to ultimately "CONFISCATE firearms owned by private citizens." It will initially require tougher licensing requirements and, "any unauthorized firearms will be CONFISCATED AND DESTROYED."

"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

My question to you is..., What are you prepared to do about it? Will you allow someone to come into your house to confiscate your weapon(s)?

"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

<br style="font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; text-align: left; ">

You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender. I don't own guns and don't claim to desire to. I have understanding for reasonable gun ownership in a residential setting to protect yourself. But pleeeze explain to me why owning a semi automatic weapon for private use is sensible, for yourself or anyone private around you. I understand the record stands that few crimes are committed by registered users of them...rather logical, but if someone could tell me what "high" you get out of owning one. I also know that for many people in the U.S. just the right, the ability to do so is precious, but I have difficulty relating to it. Having grown up in Europe must have left a larger impression on me that I thought. When I hear about found arsenals of weapons in people's cellars for "private use" I wonder who has lost contact to reality here. How many horrible crimes/accidents could have been prevented and their effect minimized if those semi automatic weapons wouldn't be available to private people. And I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think that the ones trying to commit a crime know that they are available thru other channels as well. Licensing is a filter but not a preventative measure based on what still goes on in our world.

Is the need to have a certain right, even if it is completely useless for legal use of my time, more important than the safety of everyone around me...again in a private setting.

If someone has the time and wants to take time to communicate their feelings about this, I would love to discuss. It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it.

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"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

<br style="font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; text-align: left; ">

You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender. I don't own guns and don't claim to desire to. I have understanding for reasonable gun ownership in a residential setting to protect yourself. But pleeeze explain to me why owning a semi automatic weapon for private use is sensible, for yourself or anyone private around you. I understand the record stands that few crimes are committed by registered users of them...rather logical, but if someone could tell me what "high" you get out of owning one. I also know that for many people in the U.S. just the right, the ability to do so is precious, but I have difficulty relating to it. Having grown up in Europe must have left a larger impression on me that I thought. When I hear about found arsenals of weapons in people's cellars for "private use" I wonder who has lost contact to reality here. How many horrible crimes/accidents could have been prevented and their effect minimized if those semi automatic weapons wouldn't be available to private people. And I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think that the ones trying to commit a crime know that they are available thru other channels as well. Licensing is a filter but not a preventative measure based on what still goes on in our world.

Is the need to have a certain right, even if it is completely useless for legal use of my time, more important than the safety of everyone around me...again in a private setting.

If someone has the time and wants to take time to communicate their feelings about this, I would love to discuss. It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Although a guns only purpose is for destruction. Have you ever shot a gun? It's pretty fun.. I own weapons not only for personal protection, but as a hobby. Not to mention I've been trying to go to sniper school for a year now but I'm not a high enough rank.. Wah. You said you grew up in Europe, well here in America the second amendment says we have the right to bear arms. I will admit that there is a problem with guns being on the street with people who cause harm and are not discipline enough to have it. Am I going to greet a intruder into my house with a semi automatic weapon? If there are more then 1 of them then yes. Shooting to kill is the last option but if it comes down to it to protect my life your damn right I'll squeeze that trigger. If the people do not have weapons then the government is free to do whatever they want without us having the ability to defend ourselves(Not to say the government doesn't already do what ever they want). Yes guns kill people but how many people have been saved because someone had a gun to stop them. You feel unsafe with guns around you, I feel more comfortable with them around me knowing I have the ability to defend myself.

Edited by InNoViSiOn
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"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

<br style="font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; text-align: left; ">

You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender. I don't own guns and don't claim to desire to. I have understanding for reasonable gun ownership in a residential setting to protect yourself. But pleeeze explain to me why owning a semi automatic weapon for private use is sensible, for yourself or anyone private around you. I understand the record stands that few crimes are committed by registered users of them...rather logical, but if someone could tell me what "high" you get out of owning one.

No, no .., you missed the point! It's not so much the burglar. Any hand gun or shotgun would take care if the problem. It's a BIG government that can and will (under this administration..., and possibly others) that will join forces with the UN to take us (the US) down (take ALL of our freedoms away) and come under their control!

If you don't understand this threat, then you are in the wrong country!!! Sorry for the sarcasm!

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"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

<br style="font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; text-align: left; ">

You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender. I don't own guns and don't claim to desire to. I have understanding for reasonable gun ownership in a residential setting to protect yourself. But pleeeze explain to me why owning a semi automatic weapon for private use is sensible, for yourself or anyone private around you. I understand the record stands that few crimes are committed by registered users of them...rather logical, but if someone could tell me what "high" you get out of owning one. I also know that for many people in the U.S. just the right, the ability to do so is precious, but I have difficulty relating to it. Having grown up in Europe must have left a larger impression on me that I thought. When I hear about found arsenals of weapons in people's cellars for "private use" I wonder who has lost contact to reality here. How many horrible crimes/accidents could have been prevented and their effect minimized if those semi automatic weapons wouldn't be available to private people. And I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think that the ones trying to commit a crime know that they are available thru other channels as well. Licensing is a filter but not a preventative measure based on what still goes on in our world.

Is the need to have a certain right, even if it is completely useless for legal use of my time, more important than the safety of everyone around me...again in a private setting.

If someone has the time and wants to take time to communicate their feelings about this, I would love to discuss. It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it.

Sorry Lady, I only keep a shotgun at my house, just in case a rabbit rambles thru. :D

GO RV, then BV

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LadyForex (sorry, NOT parmenio):

It all boils down to this:

The Second amendment isn't about hunting, wildlife control, or even domestic personal protection. It's primary purpose is to ensure a populace that remains armed as a deterrent to tyranny.

Are there people who do horrible things with firearms? Sure. How about knives? Chainsaws?

Trying to say 'semi-auto' firearms are any more deadly than a precise application of a shotgun or single shot rifle is nonsense. And as far as defending your home, in many states the 'Castle Doctrine' allows individuals to defend themselves in their own home without fear of recourse, even in the event of the death of the intruder. And the law doesn't care if the intruder was 'handled' with a bat, axe, shotgun, rifle or pistol.

And those 'arsenals' you mention. How many homes in America have what the liberal media might consider an arsenal. What is an arsenal? 2 Guns? Five? How many rounds of ammunition do you consider reasonable for a law abiding citizen to own? And if you have an answer, why did you pick that number? Emotion, or a statistic based on actual crimes (as opposed to the 'crimes' that might have been committed with that basement arsenal)? To answer the question in the fist sentence of this paragraph, probably more than you care to imagine. Know why you haven't heard about them? The law abiding Americans that own them AREN'T CRIMINALS!

Don't fear ANY gun. Fear the person/group/organization that wants to 'relieve you of the responsibility' of OWNING one....

Now, has the RV happened yet?

ETA: "It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it."

How does my exercise and support of the second amendment adversely affect my community? As long as I am a law-abiding citizen, the community is better off having armed citizens to deter not only tyranny, but the local thugs who will have to think twice about their potential victims being armed.....

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"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

<br style="font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; text-align: left; ">

You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender. I don't own guns and don't claim to desire to. I have understanding for reasonable gun ownership in a residential setting to protect yourself. But pleeeze explain to me why owning a semi automatic weapon for private use is sensible, for yourself or anyone private around you. I understand the record stands that few crimes are committed by registered users of them...rather logical, but if someone could tell me what "high" you get out of owning one. I also know that for many people in the U.S. just the right, the ability to do so is precious, but I have difficulty relating to it. Having grown up in Europe must have left a larger impression on me that I thought. When I hear about found arsenals of weapons in people's cellars for "private use" I wonder who has lost contact to reality here. How many horrible crimes/accidents could have been prevented and their effect minimized if those semi automatic weapons wouldn't be available to private people. And I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think that the ones trying to commit a crime know that they are available thru other channels as well. Licensing is a filter but not a preventative measure based on what still goes on in our world.

Is the need to have a certain right, even if it is completely useless for legal use of my time, more important than the safety of everyone around me...again in a private setting.

If someone has the time and wants to take time to communicate their feelings about this, I would love to discuss. It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it.

Lady... I'll jump in... on my own personal experiences, thoughts and rational. To start with you have kind of stated some very valid points in your post... pro and con. I'll start with this..

"You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender."

A semi automatic weapon describes way more than an assault weapon.. it describes everysingle hand gun in the world that is not a revolver and and every other long gun in the entire world that is not single, bolt or pump action.... your term just included millions of weapons that your not trying to describe.

You have an uneducated point of view... and thats not a stab at you by any means, but not all of these types of weapons are chambered in a caliber that deadly... Most are, and a responsible owner of this type of weapon would not pull this weapon out of the box to defend his home in an urban environment. Lets take the M16/M4/AR platform... this is the weapon used by our forces in the US. There is a variant of this weapon chambered in 9mm, a hand gun round, that is perfectly suited for home defense and was developed to be used in close quarters where over penetration was a concern. Also, there is amunition designed and in use that are called "Frangables..." meaning that they are designed to break up upon impact and "stop sailing" if you will, thus further reducing the possibility of striking and killing friendly.

In your above statement you assume that an itruder in the home is an automatic kill fest where the shooter is going to go on a "Spray and Pray" rampage. I think that nothing could be further from the truth. An educated gun owner knows the occupants of his/her home and other homes next door... spray and pray is not an option.

"Killing" ewwww thats that part that will land you in Jail... I personally have no want to kill anyone... mine is mearly to "defend" my family... you assume that the defender wants to kill... legal gun owners are not of the kill mentality in my opinion... Now with that being said if some one comes into my home and I shoot him and they die... so sorry.. dang the bad luck... should have thought that one out.

I break for your reply ma'am

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Lady... I'll jump in... on my own personal experiences, thoughts and rational. To start with you have kind of stated some very valid points in your post... pro and con. I'll start with this..

"You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender."

A semi automatic weapon describes way more than an assault weapon.. it describes everysingle hand gun in the world that is not a revolver and and every other long gun in the entire world that is not single, bolt or pump action.... your term just included millions of weapons that your not trying to describe.

You have an uneducated point of view... and thats not a stab at you by any means, but not all of these types of weapons are chambered in a caliber that deadly... Most are, and a responsible owner of this type of weapon would not pull this weapon out of the box to defend his home in an urban environment. Lets take the M16/M4/AR platform... this is the weapon used by our forces in the US. There is a variant of this weapon chambered in 9mm, a hand gun round, that is perfectly suited for home defense and was developed to be used in close quarters where over penetration was a concern. Also, there is amunition designed and in use that are called "Frangables..." meaning that they are designed to break up upon impact and "stop sailing" if you will, thus further reducing the possibility of striking and killing friendly.

In your above statement you assume that an itruder in the home is an automatic kill fest where the shooter is going to go on a "Spray and Pray" rampage. I think that nothing could be further from the truth. An educated gun owner knows the occupants of his/her home and other homes next door... spray and pray is not an option.

"Killing" ewwww thats that part that will land you in Jail... I personally have no want to kill anyone... mine is mearly to "defend" my family... you assume that the defender wants to kill... legal gun owners are not of the kill mentality in my opinion... Now with that being said if some one comes into my home and I shoot him and they die... so sorry.. dang the bad luck... should have thought that one out.

I break for your reply ma'am

+1

Every weapon I've bought I didn't hold it and think "Oh yeah I'm gonna kill a lot with this one".

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LadyForex (sorry, NOT parmenio):

It all boils down to this:

The Second amendment isn't about hunting, wildlife control, or even domestic personal protection. It's primary purpose is to ensure a populace that remains armed as a deterrent to tyranny.

Are there people who do horrible things with firearms? Sure. How about knives? Chainsaws?

Trying to say 'semi-auto' firearms are any more deadly than a precise application of a shotgun or single shot rifle is nonsense. And as far as defending your home, in many states the 'Castle Doctrine' allows individuals to defend themselves in their own home without fear of recourse, even in the event of the death of the intruder. And the law doesn't care if the intruder was 'handled' with a bat, axe, shotgun, rifle or pistol.

And those 'arsenals' you mention. How many homes in America have what the liberal media might consider an arsenal. What is an arsenal? 2 Guns? Five? How many rounds of ammunition do you consider reasonable for a law abiding citizen to own? And if you have an answer, why did you pick that number? Emotion, or a statistic based on actual crimes (as opposed to the 'crimes' that might have been committed with that basement arsenal)? To answer the question in the fist sentence of this paragraph, probably more than you care to imagine. Know why you haven't heard about them? The law abiding Americans that own them AREN'T CRIMINALS!

Don't fear ANY gun. Fear the person/group/organization that wants to 'relieve you of the responsibility' of OWNING one....

Now, has the RV happened yet?

ETA: "It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it."

How does my exercise and support of the second amendment adversely affect my community? As long as I am a law-abiding citizen, the community is better off having armed citizens to deter not only tyranny, but the local thugs who will have to think twice about their potential victims being armed.....

HOT DAMN... gbosh...! dead center on that response... Shall we regulate cars next... its not the machine its the man or woman behind it. Cars are involved in more deaths than guns Period. but you know what... I have a two car garage and when I park my car on one side and if I was to lay the most deadly weapon I have in the spot next to it... neither would kill anything without a user interface. It's semantics... Gunz, cars baseball bats barbed wire machetes knives... whatever... do not kill people... people kill people.

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"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

<br style="font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; text-align: left; ">

You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender. I don't own guns and don't claim to desire to. I have understanding for reasonable gun ownership in a residential setting to protect yourself. But pleeeze explain to me why owning a semi automatic weapon for private use is sensible, for yourself or anyone private around you. I understand the record stands that few crimes are committed by registered users of them...rather logical, but if someone could tell me what "high" you get out of owning one. I also know that for many people in the U.S. just the right, the ability to do so is precious, but I have difficulty relating to it. Having grown up in Europe must have left a larger impression on me that I thought. When I hear about found arsenals of weapons in people's cellars for "private use" I wonder who has lost contact to reality here. How many horrible crimes/accidents could have been prevented and their effect minimized if those semi automatic weapons wouldn't be available to private people. And I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think that the ones trying to commit a crime know that they are available thru other channels as well. Licensing is a filter but not a preventative measure based on what still goes on in our world.

Is the need to have a certain right, even if it is completely useless for legal use of my time, more important than the safety of everyone around me...again in a private setting.

If someone has the time and wants to take time to communicate their feelings about this, I would love to discuss. It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it.

It's obvious you don't own a gun, you don't even know what a SEMI-AUTOMATIC weapon is. (One round is fired each time the trigger of a semi-automatic pistol is pulled). Perhaps you are confusing them with AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, like machine guns. I would suggest that if you are going to join a debate, that you at least know a little more regarding what you're talking about prior to engaging. I don't know anyone that gets a "high" from owning a gun. And I'm sure if you would do more research, you will find just who's not in touch with reality.

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Lady... I'll jump in... on my own personal experiences, thoughts and rational. To start with you have kind of stated some very valid points in your post... pro and con. I'll start with this..

"You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender."

A semi automatic weapon describes way more than an assault weapon.. it describes everysingle hand gun in the world that is not a revolver and and every other long gun in the entire world that is not single, bolt or pump action.... your term just included millions of weapons that your not trying to describe.

You have an uneducated point of view... and thats not a stab at you by any means, but not all of these types of weapons are chambered in a caliber that deadly... Most are, and a responsible owner of this type of weapon would not pull this weapon out of the box to defend his home in an urban environment. Lets take the M16/M4/AR platform... this is the weapon used by our forces in the US. There is a variant of this weapon chambered in 9mm, a hand gun round, that is perfectly suited for home defense and was developed to be used in close quarters where over penetration was a concern. Also, there is amunition designed and in use that are called "Frangables..." meaning that they are designed to break up upon impact and "stop sailing" if you will, thus further reducing the possibility of striking and killing friendly.

In your above statement you assume that an itruder in the home is an automatic kill fest where the shooter is going to go on a "Spray and Pray" rampage. I think that nothing could be further from the truth. An educated gun owner knows the occupants of his/her home and other homes next door... spray and pray is not an option.

"Killing" ewwww thats that part that will land you in Jail... I personally have no want to kill anyone... mine is mearly to "defend" my family... you assume that the defender wants to kill... legal gun owners are not of the kill mentality in my opinion... Now with that being said if some one comes into my home and I shoot him and they die... so sorry.. dang the bad luck... should have thought that one out.

I break for your reply ma'am

I love the education I am getting, since I am not a "weapon" carrying person and never have. Have always respected people that do, but seen so many that simply think playing the video games we have around these days will teach them how to act once it's a REAL situation. As I said prior I didn't grow up with the right to carry a weapon, Police and similar forces only, so the thought that every private citizen can go to "Walmart" and buy one even after having to wait a week, or whatever the individual laws are, makes me nervous. So yes, could not agree more when one of you guys said it's the person that kills, not the gun. I get that. But knowing everyone else is armed doesn't make me feel safer knowing there are plenty out there that buy and own to defend and have it for that one anticipated moment and then don't know how to use it properly. I assume, there are requirements to train once I own, right? Hope so. I also realize now that semi-automatic style includes any but revolver etc of the old style, thanks for explaining that.

That all led us away from the initial point the article made, that banning them for PRIVATE use is what is being addressed. Which really seems to be coming down more than anything to "second amendment right" and nothing else. Being that I am familiar with the "rights" but didn't grow up having them engrained into every bit of my being, but grew up with having rights but also obligations and responsibilities. I see many harp on their rights here but when it comes to the later, they are not so thrilled to comply. If it is true that current gun owners feel they are walking down the lane of giving up one right after another, per say, giving the little finger but having the whole hand taken...is that realistic or fear mongering? The United States is one of the most "free" countries I know as of date. Describing what you guys describe here at times, making it sound like we are heading towards communism...you all need to take a trip to those countries and get a reality check!! I lived there and next door and what you have here today doesn't come remotely close to it.

So, are we saying that to keep it that way, we all need to carry a weapon, to scare each other into not ending up there? You have no idea how paranoid that sounds to someone who has lived in those regimes, is glad to be here and sees people harp on their so called rights and ignore their responsibilities/obligations. Did I open a can of worms now? Love a healthy discussion.

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That all led us away from the initial point the article made, that banning them for PRIVATE use is what is being addressed. Which really seems to be coming down more than anything to "second amendment right" and nothing else. Being that I am familiar with the "rights" but didn't grow up having them engrained into every bit of my being, but grew up with having rights but also obligations and responsibilities. I see many harp on their rights here but when it comes to the later, they are not so thrilled to comply. If it is true that current gun owners feel they are walking down the lane of giving up one right after another, per say, giving the little finger but having the whole hand taken...is that realistic or fear mongering? The United States is one of the most "free" countries I know as of date. Describing what you guys describe here at times, making it sound like we are heading towards communism...you all need to take a trip to those countries and get a reality check!! I lived there and next door and what you have here today doesn't come remotely close to it.

Incremental erosion/denial of liberty is a cornerstone of impending tyranny. Is it fear mongering? Ask the European Jews of the late 30s.

The 'obligation' part of the Second Amendment is that every citizen is charged with vigilance and determination to secure and defend liberty. The 'right' is that only an armed citizenry is capable of defending liberty under the most dire circumstances and under the most extreme duress. While that 'right' need not be exercised on a daily basis in every venue, the penalty for failing the obligation of the Second Amendment is severe and examples of it litter history.

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I know people believe Snopes but according to statements made by Hillarious Clinton, which can easily be googled and found, she DOES support this UN proposition and DOES think it is a good idea. From what I have been seeing coming out of Snopes I am beginning to suspect that they are about as left leaning as our administration. During the election I was watching Snopes. They would offer huge rebuttals for things against obama but not much at all regarding anyone opposing Obama. Snopes also nullified any question about Obama's birth. Before people have a heart attack calling me a 'birther' please ask yourself how much a person who even remotely tried to investigate you could find? I know I have kids I grew up with in grade school. I know I have relatives and friends of my relatives who know about me. I have records from church. I have records from school. The hospital I was born in has records of my mother being admitted. There are records made by the administring doctor. There are friends who knew my mother when she was expecting me. Please ask yourself why there are no such records for Obama? What is known is miniscule compared to what would be found on anyone else. I'm not a political figure. I'm just a no body. But I know if someone googled my name that things would show and if someone wanted to dig they would find me. No body unless you are part of the witness protection program is as sterile and non-existant as Obama.

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I love the education I am getting, since I am not a "weapon" carrying person and never have. Have always respected people that do, but seen so many that simply think playing the video games we have around these days will teach them how to act once it's a REAL situation. As I said prior I didn't grow up with the right to carry a weapon, Police and similar forces only, so the thought that every private citizen can go to "Walmart" and buy one even after having to wait a week, or whatever the individual laws are, makes me nervous. So yes, could not agree more when one of you guys said it's the person that kills, not the gun. I get that. But knowing everyone else is armed doesn't make me feel safer knowing there are plenty out there that buy and own to defend and have it for that one anticipated moment and then don't know how to use it properly. I assume, there are requirements to train once I own, right? Hope so. I also realize now that semi-automatic style includes any but revolver etc of the old style, thanks for explaining that.

That all led us away from the initial point the article made, that banning them for PRIVATE use is what is being addressed. Which really seems to be coming down more than anything to "second amendment right" and nothing else. Being that I am familiar with the "rights" but didn't grow up having them engrained into every bit of my being, but grew up with having rights but also obligations and responsibilities. I see many harp on their rights here but when it comes to the later, they are not so thrilled to comply. If it is true that current gun owners feel they are walking down the lane of giving up one right after another, per say, giving the little finger but having the whole hand taken...is that realistic or fear mongering? The United States is one of the most "free" countries I know as of date. Describing what you guys describe here at times, making it sound like we are heading towards communism...you all need to take a trip to those countries and get a reality check!! I lived there and next door and what you have here today doesn't come remotely close to it.

So, are we saying that to keep it that way, we all need to carry a weapon, to scare each other into not ending up there? You have no idea how paranoid that sounds to someone who has lived in those regimes, is glad to be here and sees people harp on their so called rights and ignore their responsibilities/obligations. Did I open a can of worms now? Love a healthy discussion.

Lady... glad you're back... I don't know where to start... First and foremost I think the original topic of this thread has already been debunked by gbosh. I don't think I personally am paranoid but it concerns me when we hear stories about taking any of our freedoms away specifically might right to defend myself. However, I want what I want because the constitution gaurantess it to me. I cannot speak for my fellow posters but I too have been in the places you have been... its having been in those places that make me so thankfiul that I was born here. I was in both the Navy and Army and have served in Europe, Asia and the ME. Thank GOD I AM AN AMERICAN.

Responsibilities and obligations... Man thats a loaded topic... you also said something about the right to carry... No we all don't need to carry but we all should have the right to do so if we can pass the requirement and the rest is semantics.... the key term is "law abiding citizen." A criminal does not carry in respect to the law... some one that is around and is a lawfull carry person has the ability and some would say obligation to defend should the need arise. Its a tense topic... Just last week my co worker and I were having this very same conversation... and he said I don't think you should be able to carry in a church my response was why? what if some crazed lunatic comes in the church a goes wacko... that person could defend the curch goers... Not a few days later in another town close to me some fool went in and shot several church goers over a personal quarell and he killed several of the congregation.... had a person with a license to carry been there the loss of life would could have been less.

Giving the little finger is the start of the whole hand on this issue. It is one of the most major principals of freedom in this country. A Foreign or domestic threat... cannot be meet with machettes and clubs... it is on every TV news station. With that being said... you don't see the most armed country on earth on TV blow eachother up or having fire fights at the town hall... it is a delicate balance of power and respect. Threat to threat. its a silent agreement that we will allow you to lead our county in our voice and we will equip you out of our pockets with your state of the art weaponry designed by us, but we will not be subject to it as we are granted the constitutional right own it as well.

Again I break.....

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I love the education I am getting, since I am not a "weapon" carrying person and never have. Have always respected people that do, but seen so many that simply think playing the video games we have around these days will teach them how to act once it's a REAL situation. As I said prior I didn't grow up with the right to carry a weapon, Police and similar forces only, so the thought that every private citizen can go to "Walmart" and buy one even after having to wait a week, or whatever the individual laws are, makes me nervous. So yes, could not agree more when one of you guys said it's the person that kills, not the gun. I get that. But knowing everyone else is armed doesn't make me feel safer knowing there are plenty out there that buy and own to defend and have it for that one anticipated moment and then don't know how to use it properly. I assume, there are requirements to train once I own, right? Hope so. I also realize now that semi-automatic style includes any but revolver etc of the old style, thanks for explaining that.

That all led us away from the initial point the article made, that banning them for PRIVATE use is what is being addressed. Which really seems to be coming down more than anything to "second amendment right" and nothing else. Being that I am familiar with the "rights" but didn't grow up having them engrained into every bit of my being, but grew up with having rights but also obligations and responsibilities. I see many harp on their rights here but when it comes to the later, they are not so thrilled to comply. If it is true that current gun owners feel they are walking down the lane of giving up one right after another, per say, giving the little finger but having the whole hand taken...is that realistic or fear mongering? The United States is one of the most "free" countries I know as of date. Describing what you guys describe here at times, making it sound like we are heading towards communism...you all need to take a trip to those countries and get a reality check!! I lived there and next door and what you have here today doesn't come remotely close to it.

So, are we saying that to keep it that way, we all need to carry a weapon, to scare each other into not ending up there? You have no idea how paranoid that sounds to someone who has lived in those regimes, is glad to be here and sees people harp on their so called rights and ignore their responsibilities/obligations. Did I open a can of worms now? Love a healthy discussion.

Maam, wherever you came from is like you describe because the Government there has all the guns. You might use Siria as an example. All of the unrest there and the dis satisfaction with the Sirian Government is a one sided debate. Sure you can riot and throw rocks but that'll get you dead. In America this debate has raged on forever and it's clear that the Government here will use any tactic or lie to make it appear unsafe for the general population to own firearms. Truth is the facts don't lie and it has been proven time and again that we are safer when we are armed. This government wants our guns because they want to remove the threat to their ultimate takeover. You want mine?? Come and get it!!

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"...to Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons."

<br style="font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; text-align: left; ">

You're really greeting a burglar/intruder in your home with a semi automatic weapon...and what would be the point of that besides an irrational need to go to jail because you will kill and destroy a heck of a lot more than just the offender. I don't own guns and don't claim to desire to. I have understanding for reasonable gun ownership in a residential setting to protect yourself. But pleeeze explain to me why owning a semi automatic weapon for private use is sensible, for yourself or anyone private around you. I understand the record stands that few crimes are committed by registered users of them...rather logical, but if someone could tell me what "high" you get out of owning one. I also know that for many people in the U.S. just the right, the ability to do so is precious, but I have difficulty relating to it. Having grown up in Europe must have left a larger impression on me that I thought. When I hear about found arsenals of weapons in people's cellars for "private use" I wonder who has lost contact to reality here. How many horrible crimes/accidents could have been prevented and their effect minimized if those semi automatic weapons wouldn't be available to private people. And I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think that the ones trying to commit a crime know that they are available thru other channels as well. Licensing is a filter but not a preventative measure based on what still goes on in our world.

Is the need to have a certain right, even if it is completely useless for legal use of my time, more important than the safety of everyone around me...again in a private setting.

If someone has the time and wants to take time to communicate their feelings about this, I would love to discuss. It's one of the few things after having lived here most of my adult life, that I still don't understand...the lack of thinking about the community and the effect of one person's "rights" on it.

Evidently you have never been bear hunting. When I was hunting for bear I wanted a semi-automatic rifle. I wanted something that would put a few rounds out faster than I would be able to use a bolt action. I know you would never even consider the possiblity that one day we might be defending ourselves from other humans. But, neither did those in most other countries before it happened.

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I love the education I am getting, since I am not a "weapon" carrying person and never have. Have always respected people that do, but seen so many that simply think playing the video games we have around these days will teach them how to act once it's a REAL situation. As I said prior I didn't grow up with the right to carry a weapon, Police and similar forces only, so the thought that every private citizen can go to "Walmart" and buy one even after having to wait a week, or whatever the individual laws are, makes me nervous. So yes, could not agree more when one of you guys said it's the person that kills, not the gun. I get that. But knowing everyone else is armed doesn't make me feel safer knowing there are plenty out there that buy and own to defend and have it for that one anticipated moment and then don't know how to use it properly. I assume, there are requirements to train once I own, right? Hope so. I also realize now that semi-automatic style includes any but revolver etc of the old style, thanks for explaining that.

That all led us away from the initial point the article made, that banning them for PRIVATE use is what is being addressed. Which really seems to be coming down more than anything to "second amendment right" and nothing else. Being that I am familiar with the "rights" but didn't grow up having them engrained into every bit of my being, but grew up with having rights but also obligations and responsibilities. I see many harp on their rights here but when it comes to the later, they are not so thrilled to comply. If it is true that current gun owners feel they are walking down the lane of giving up one right after another, per say, giving the little finger but having the whole hand taken...is that realistic or fear mongering? The United States is one of the most "free" countries I know as of date. Describing what you guys describe here at times, making it sound like we are heading towards communism...you all need to take a trip to those countries and get a reality check!! I lived there and next door and what you have here today doesn't come remotely close to it.

So, are we saying that to keep it that way, we all need to carry a weapon, to scare each other into not ending up there? You have no idea how paranoid that sounds to someone who has lived in those regimes, is glad to be here and sees people harp on their so called rights and ignore their responsibilities/obligations. Did I open a can of worms now? Love a healthy discussion.

I don't think you quiet understand the definition of a semi automatic weapon.

Here

A semi-automatic, or self-loading firearm is a weapon which performs all steps necessary to prepare the weapon to fire again after firing—assuming cartridges remain in the weapon's feed device or magazine. Typically, this includes extracting and ejecting the spent cartridge case from the weapon's firing chamber, re-cocking the firing mechanism, and loading a new cartridge into the firing chamber. Although automatic weapons and selective fire firearms do the same tasks, semi-automatic firearms do not automatically fire an additional round until the trigger is released and re-pressed by the person firing the weapon.

This being said many weapons can be simply modified to be fully automatic.

I have lived in the US my entire life and did not grow up around guns. But growing up we are taught that this country was founded on certain rights that other countries do not have the luxury of having. Now that our rights are slowly being taken away it goes against everything we were taught growing up. You say that America is one of the most free counties you've ever been in, well I want to keep it that way. There should be no argument about being able to own a gun when it is written on paper by our founding fathers that we are allowed to own them. I'm not qualified to handle a weapon? Well the US Army recognizes me as a expert shooter and so does the state of California (California combat match). I would hope that if your going to purchase a weapon you know how to use it. We can not stop everyone from having weapons and I definitely see how you feel uncomfortable knowing that some people have guns with the intent of using them for illegal violence, that is why I feel more comfortable having them to prevent such violence. If a man goes on a shooting rampage on my street and start firing on my neighbors and family, do you think I'm going to wait for the police? Hell no, I'm going to take it into my own hands. We need weapons to defend for ourselves and you need to practice so when the time comes to use them you'll be able to shoot effectively. We are ignoring our responsibilities and obligations? By letting the US take our weapons we are ignoring our responsibilities to uphold our rights to defend ourselves. I do agree that some kids are definitely being brain washed and desensitized to war with all the FPS games. There's nothing we can do about that.. Maybe once their in full battle rattle in a combat zone they'll realize that it isn't fun like call of duty. Regardless of how you feel, there are always going to be weapons on the street and with that being said you are always going to feel uncomfortable then. **** happens in this world and when it happens to be I'm going to be prepared. Better safe then sorry no?

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OBama, French foreign legion, the Russians whoever. Come on guys i think this nation is the most heavily armed nation in the world and i am not talking about the military. I am talking about the Rod and Gun clubs members, the NRA, The sportsman hunters, former military people, Redneck gun owners, deer hunters from every state, turkey hunters, wild boar hunters, Bow hunters and 70% of homes in the US has at least one gun. You talk about a mass coming together. That incident if if was tryed here in the US like they did it to Canada in the early 90's would make that little Arab Spring uprising look like a Japanese Sunamui. Canada has already said they wished they had never given in to turning in their weapons because the crime is not down and now only the bad guys have the weapons. We are bound by are Constitution to uphold the rightful laws thats stated in it. Washington needs a shift change, get off this i am a repub or demo and vote these people out, President, Congress all of them. Russia is laughning at us and the changes that is being forced upon us. WE all better get in step or you may be forced to do things in the near future that should never happen on the land.

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Trying to forcefully collect constitutionally guaranteed arms from most citizens I know would be fool's work... especially if you're wearing a blue helmet.

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OBama, French foreign legion, the Russians whoever. Come on guys i think this nation is the most heavily armed nation in the world and i am not talking about the military. I am talking about the Rod and Gun clubs members, the NRA, The sportsman hunters, former military people, Redneck gun owners, deer hunters from every state, turkey hunters, wild boar hunters, Bow hunters and 70% of homes in the US has at least one gun. You talk about a mass coming together. That incident if if was tryed here in the US like they did it to Canada in the early 90's would make that little Arab Spring uprising look like a Japanese Sunamui. Canada has already said they wished they had never given in to turning in their weapons because the crime is not down and now only the bad guys have the weapons. We are bound by are Constitution to uphold the rightful laws thats stated in it. Washington needs a shift change, get off this i am a repub or demo and vote these people out, President, Congress all of them. Russia is laughning at us and the changes that is being forced upon us. WE all better get in step or you may be forced to do things in the near future that should never happen on the land.

... love your response Heavyduty053! This is what this administration and others who want to take the Second Amendment right away from us will find out..., if they are fools to try it!

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My Mom taught me to fire a rifle when I was 10 yrs old. Granted, at that time it was a 22 rifle, but she trained me. She also, along with my Dad, trained the rest of us. Only one of the six kids did not learn, and she just didn't like guns at all. (Never did understand that.) Mom was a better shot than Dad. She use to hunt in the woods of Oklahoma for food during the depression. She would use the 22 to shoot squirrels out of the trees. She had to hit them in the head to save the meat. She was good and the weapons were a necessity. I had two brothers and I am the oldest. We use to hunt everything from Jackrabbits to Cougars in several states. We never shot each other, another person, or even considered using a weapon in a violent manner. We learned to use fire arms long before we were in the military though we learned a different type of weapon.

My two brothers still have weapons of all kinds; some of them registered, but most are not. They are no longer 22s, but a number of different sizes, types, and kinds. Both have safes where they are stored and kept. But those they have in their homes are only the guns they have registered. They are registered to carry fire arms on their person and they carry all the time.

The government can make request, come and take the registered guns, but they will not find the ones that are not registered, which are the majority of them.

I stopped using weapons along ago. I don't have one in my home. When I go hunting I do so with a camera.

I do not think that the U.S. government will pass a law to take away our weapons unless they change the constitution and the majority of U.S. citizens will not permit this to happen. If WE allow it to happen, then we do not deserve to have our weapons. We will have proved to be irresponsible citizens.

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My Mom taught me to fire a rifle when I was 10 yrs old. Granted, at that time it was a 22 rifle, but she trained me. She also, along with my Dad, trained the rest of us. Only one of the six kids did not learn, and she just didn't like guns at all. (Never did understand that.) Mom was a better shot than Dad. She use to hunt in the woods of Oklahoma for food during the depression. She would use the 22 to shoot squirrels out of the trees. She had to hit them in the head to save the meat. She was good and the weapons were a necessity. I had two brothers and I am the oldest. We use to hunt everything from Jackrabbits to Cougars in several states. We never shot each other, another person, or even considered using a weapon in a violent manner. We learned to use fire arms long before we were in the military though we learned a different type of weapon.

My two brothers still have weapons of all kinds; some of them registered, but most are not. They are no longer 22s, but a number of different sizes, types, and kinds. Both have safes where they are stored and kept. But those they have in their homes are only the guns they have registered. They are registered to carry fire arms on their person and they carry all the time.

The government can make request, come and take the registered guns, but they will not find the ones that are not registered, which are the majority of them.

I stopped using weapons along ago. I don't have one in my home. When I go hunting I do so with a camera.

I do not think that the U.S. government willgment pass a law to take away our weapons unless they change the constitution and the majority of U.S. citizens will not permit this to happen. If WE allow it to happen, then we do not deserve to have our weapons. We will have proved to be irresponsible citizens.

Nelg i agree but there is one more point to make, there is a segment of a society that is asleep at the wheel and headed for the cliff because they think it is a bother to get involved in affairs of this nation so they pass the buck and let it ride and ride until the curtain starts closing the wrong way. then they wake up just enough to say whats going on, what is happening. The damage is being done behind the publice curtain where you and i will not notice it until its to late...........But the sad thing is Washington knows this and they act accordinly. They are afraid now that one day in the near future there may be an uprising here and they are scared they will end up on the wrong end of the stick. So they call for all guns to be removed and i believe the last draw will be to shut down the componets that make up the bullets............If our police and military are ever ordered to fire on americans then it time to defend the constitution our way.

Edited by Heavyduty053
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To all of the posters choosing to Bear Arms and protect what we have worked hard to have.....I salute you!!!!

I am a female who also chooses to Bear Arms and will without a doubt shoot someone who has entered my domain uninvited and with intent to do harm to myself or my family. Home protection weapon of choice has always been my trusty 12 gauge shotgun. Why? Because they sound wicked when racked whether in the dark or from behind a closed door....a burglar who is dumb enough to stick around after hearing that sound, deserves what he gets after the fact. Just bought a really sweet little .40 cal that I plan to carry once my permit comes in and that is because with the events that may surface in the coming months, one can never be too prepared. Would I want to shoot someone?.....absolutely not! But would I shoot someone if I had to because my or my family's safety is being threatened, ABSOLUTELY would without a doubt! Worked for the prison system for a few years and spent many hours in the perimeter vehicle....I've shot a few possible escapees back over the fence because it was a threat to the public had they gotten free. So to the missy who doesn't understand gun ownership....I will pray for you!!

Come on already RV!!!!!

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