Parliamentary: Delete the three zeros does not lead to the strengthening of the dinar

[sonny1]

Why do we talk about smoke and mirrors? If it has not RV'd yet then they are not blowing SMOKE so stop saying that! That is a term used by pumpers to get you to think that Iraq is full of it yet they are telling us the truth. No RV - so must be those who use that word are pushing smoke and mirrors.

if all these lop articles arent smoke and b.s, why havent they lopped yet smartypants?

[Alex38]

If they were going to "lop"... They'd have already done it.

[Papster]

if all these lop articles arent smoke and b.s, why havent they lopped yet smartypants?

your right sonny1.........didnt think of it that way........ if this was just going to lop..........they would just do it already.........imo this event is too big and too many hands in the cookie jar.........for this to lop.........they are busy getting their house in order.........and shabs did say the value of the dinar will strengthen when our troops leave........and when is that.........soon............Dec 6 from what i read.............and if truth be known........we maybe out of there before that..........Biden in iraq the 29th for some kind of ceremony as we hand over the last of our camps.......maliki is calling for a national holiday to beat on his chest........imo this is coming to an end and we will all find out the outcome...........and imo most of us will be happy............GO DINAR

[Papster]

Again I am going to ask, if not RDing by now is proof that they aren't going to then why have they not RVed either?

look Doug i am not going to debate lop,rd, or rv..........cause it really does not matter......anything you say or anything i say..........aint going to change what is going to happen..........i have been in this a while..........i have read all the articles and everyones opinions.......and i have formed my own hypothesis.......which is an educated guess.......whatever will be.......will be...........also imo there are other influences on our investment that you will never find a link too..........and the CBI, GOI, and the iraqi media are not going to tell us the truth.......so best of luck to all of us............GO DINAR

[keepmwlknfny]

And who would have thought we'd be pinning our hopes on that guy??

I still think there's hope though. They talk a lot about removing zeros from the new currency. They don't give too much away about their plans for the old currency.

As long as Maliki and his gang show opposition to this bill to delete the zeros then we have something to hang our hopes on!!

There isent much said about the old currency (what we have now) except what it will be traded for during the redenomination process....unfortunately like all other redenominations, the old currency never sees the new rate....only the new currency gets the higher value.....

Sooooo in other words "COME ON MALIKI" and "FIRE SHABIBI"!!!

[Alex38]

As long as Maliki and his gang show opposition to this bill to delete the zeros then we have something to hang our hopes on!!

There isent much said about the old currency (what we have now) except what it will be traded for during the redenomination process....unfortunately like all other redenominations, the old currency never sees the new rate....only the new currency gets the higher value.....

Sooooo in other words "COME ON MALIKI" and "FIRE SHABIBI"!!!

Uhhhh... WE put Shabibi there. For a reason. And that reason is to MAKE money. Not lose it. Or "value neutral" as some might say. There is/has been a plan from the get go.

[FishmanTx]

We are talking Trillions here but nobody seems to get it, Trillions of Dollars worth of oil??? Do you have any idea how just much even one Trillion dollars worth of oil is? Apparently you don't but this is the kind of nonsense it takes to make impossible numbers work, BTW you said "from the banking system to the U.S. Treasury which will use it to purchase oil" The U.S. Treasury buys oil???

By the same kind of logic I might ask then haven't they RVed yet either? Obviously for reasons known only to them they are not ready yet. There are many things that have to be worked out and implemented such as the duel pricing structure they have mentioned and public education plus it has not even been made official yet, the RD is not the only thing their Government is concerned about right now and there could be many other items on their agenda that take priority over the RD/RV, one thing we can all agree on is they get in no hurry to do anything!

Doug it doesn't matter. The agreements are what the agreement are. It's not an object for debate. Just like the Paris Club agreements. Whatever they do with it is irrelevant to the fact that THIS is what they agreed to do. And NOT ALL is going to oil, I'm sure they'll do other things as well. Read Marcus Curtis' "Rabbit Hole" series and his other stuff on the exchange agreement and fractional banking and you'll see how this process works. I don't really care what they do with it. After I exchange, they can build a bonfire with it and dance around it like wild injuns' (LOL) for all I care.

The one thing you can't change, though are facts. Whether we understand how it will all work out or not, what is...IS! Too many people are getting wrapped up in the minutia of this gig and try to pull a "Clinton Analysis" ("define the word is.."). Back up, de-stress, and wait for what will be. Nothing you can do will change anything anyway.

[caz1104]

look Doug i am not going to debate lop,rd, or rv..........cause it really does not matter......anything you say or anything i say..........aint going to change what is going to happen..........i have been in this a while..........i have read all the articles and everyones opinions.......and i have formed my own hypothesis.......which is an educated guess.......whatever will be.......will be...........also imo there are other influences on our investment that you will never find a link too..........and the CBI, GOI, and the iraqi media are not going to tell us the truth.......so best of luck to all of us............GO DINAR

I agree with everything you said. Words/articles are'nt proof of facts,actions are.So untill actions have occured its all opinion or conjecture.

[keepmwlknfny]

Uhhhh... WE put Shabibi there. For a reason. And that reason is to MAKE money. Not lose it. Or "value neutral" as some might say. There is/has been a plan from the get go.

We put almost everyone in place over there....but that doesnt mean anything....

The US has put tons of people in power over the decades and guess what?? None have really been to our benefit....they always end up turning on the US in the end....look at Saddam and Bin Laden for instance....they werent put there by anyone but the US...and look how that turned out!

Unfortunately Shabibi is the only one pushing this plan forward to lop the zeros....Maliki and his govt are against the idea and that is our only hope seeing as how this plan to lop has to be approved by parliament....

Corruption and greed will make us money off this investment....not playing by the rules and being prim and proper....Shabibi is pushing the plan to lop, Maliki is against it....so whose side are you on??

[caz1104]

We put almost everyone in place over there....but that doesnt mean anything....

The US has put tons of people in power over the decades and guess what?? None have really been to our benefit....they always end up turning on the US in the end....look at Saddam and Bin Laden for instance....they werent put there by anyone but the US...and look how that turned out!

Unfortunately Shabibi is the only one pushing this plan forward to lop the zeros....Maliki and his govt are against the idea and that is our only hope seeing as how this plan to lop has to be approved by parliament....

Corruption and greed will make us money off this investment....not playing by the rules and being prim and proper....Shabibi is pushing the plan to lop, Maliki is against it....so whose side are you on??

I'm on the side of ..................................Caz!!!!! lol But I'm dead serious

[2fast4u2c]

Alex38....you are right - we put him there but he will not make you money on this investment.

[Darin]

Again I am going to ask, if not RDing by now is proof that they aren't going to then why have they not RVed either?

I would imagine they have road-blocks to RVing, but I can't see road-blocks to RDing.

They could of RD'd back in 2004, but they didn't...

Here is a good question, if inflating your money supply is due to inflation, why have they continued to inflate their money supply with low inflation?

Why not strengthen the exchange rate from the beginning to not have a high figured money supply?

I bet you can't find one shred of evidence that the U.S. is even holding Dinar and especially that there is any kind of agreement with even if they did have Dinar held backt yet you just say this like it's fact when clearly it is just an idea of how someone thinks, or wants, it to be. What is fact is that Dinar can be spent in Iraq or exchanged for foreign currency (maybe!) and whether this exchange takes place inside Iraq or at a foreign bank or currency exchange it ultimately has to end up back at the central bank in Iraq. These wishful ideas of how this could work to our advantage are dreamed up and presented as fact and how it WILL happen when they are nothing more than someone's idea of how they want it to happen. The U.S. Government holding Trillions of Dinar to trade for Trillions of Dollars worth of oil would be hundreds of years worth of oil at our current usage so that argument just doesn't work.

LOL, ain't it the truth! Our only hope is greed and corruption because if they do it proper and do what's best for the Iraqi people we will be screwed! The good news is that there is likely to be no shortage of greed and corruption in the Iraqi decision making process.

I am sure it would look bad if the US held IQD (large amounts) as it may be viewed as war profiteering. But, if the gov. knew the IQD were to R/V, I bet they'd be happy to see so many Am.'s holding

But than again, I don't think the CBI has released as much into circulation as they have claimed.

[zigmeister]

This is another sticking point I have asked a couple of times and no one seems to have an opinion, given the mind-set of the population (in general terms anyway) what's going to happen when these people who have suffered so much from the devastation of the war discover that their Government has just made a decision that turned a couple of Million Americans into multi-Millionaires? Obviously this would be seen as Americans stealing Iraqi wealth especially since that would mean individual Americans would be receiving far more wealth from that decision than the average Iraqi citizen, after all it would be simply absurd to think that all or even most of the Iraqi population would also become Millionaires. When we consider that Iraqi politicians would most likely feel the same as the citizen in the street about where this money had gone, in addition to having to deal with the backlash, it could be that there may be a heck of a lot of resistance for that reason in addition to the financial implications of placing so much of Iraq's wealth in the pockets of foreigners. We can't argue that it's the Iraqis who will be making the decisions and these decisions will be to benefit Iraqis not foreign speculators so who will they favor?

You have to remember Iraq benefited from all those wanna be millionaires in a big way. So I do not see an issue with the end result.

[caz1104]

This is another sticking point I have asked a couple of times and no one seems to have an opinion, given the mind-set of the population (in general terms anyway) what's going to happen when these people who have suffered so much from the devastation of the war discover that their Government has just made a decision that turned a couple of Million Americans into multi-Millionaires? Obviously this would be seen as Americans stealing Iraqi wealth especially since that would mean individual Americans would be receiving far more wealth from that decision than the average Iraqi citizen, after all it would be simply absurd to think that all or even most of the Iraqi population would also become Millionaires. When we consider that Iraqi politicians would most likely feel the same as the citizen in the street about where this money had gone, in addition to having to deal with the backlash, it could be that there may be a heck of a lot of resistance for that reason in addition to the financial implications of placing so much of Iraq's wealth in the pockets of foreigners. We can't argue that it's the Iraqis who will be making the decisions and these decisions will be to benefit Iraqis not foreign speculators so who will they favor?

Opinion, how do you know how an Iraqi will feel? Every single angle that you've presented that I've read is anti-Rv,pretty open minded would'nt you say?

Edited November 28, 2011 by caz1104

[George Hayduke]

Thinking you're guaranteed at least a 10,000% profit isn't what I would call "grounded".

Am I to assume then, that Adam, the owner and manager of this forum isn't grounded either?

[zigmeister]

How so? Plus the average Iraqi, actuality I would think extremely few, would feel that they have anything but benefited financially and I can't believe this would not be seen as stealing Iraqi wealth, it sure would be used as a rallying point for the insurgents! Do you remember the near rioting that occurred just a few months back when it was suggested that Iraq reimburse the U.S. for the cost of the war? Those people don't want to see Americans receive financial gain from Iraq, don't kid yourself. Put yourself in the Iraqi position and forget for a moment about our potential financial gain from this, You could vote to RV to the few cents that would be possible without the RD and then pay out Billions to speculators OR you could RD first and then RV to a much higher rate of well over $1 to even $3 or more and keep those Billions at home instead of them going to foreign speculators, now be honest how would you vote? I know I am again going to be accused of the "broken record" but I think this is a legitimate question. We have been bombarded for a long time with only the positive, most of which was just wishful thinking and completely slanted to make it fit the way we wanted it to. For a long time I just went along and while sometimes I thought "that just don't make sense" I also thought that it probably would work out anyway, but then I got serious and started trying to think about this thing rationally and crunching the numbers without intentionally forcing them to fit. I finally realized that most of what we have been telling ourselves is simply impossible and too often we have been lying to ourselves without even knowing it. If the Iraqis are telling us something we don't like and there's no good explanation then assume they are just lying, but really are they? Maybe they are but we also need to consider the possibility they are not, and then there is the problem of the impossibly large figures that are either simply ignored or just explained away with fanciful explanations that are usually nothing more than a biased idea being presented as how something will happen. .

The questions I am asking are questions I asked myself and anyone who is in this thing needs to realize there is two sides to it, focusing only on what we want to hear and just automatically shutting out anything negative without even considering it will likely be a huge mistake if this thing does turn sour. We need to look at things that may very well be affecting us soon and there may be decisions that will need to be made but time may not be on our side if we wait until things go wrong and then start to worry about what to do. Rational discussion instead of wishful thinking and trying to look at this thing from the point of view of the people who will actually be calling the shots is all I am trying to do, what's wrong with doing that?

Doug we paid US dollars for the dinar we hold right now, which goes into Iraqs bank, which goes to their money supply. The investment we made helps Iraq. Pretty simple. If this RV's as it stands right now many Iraqi's will also benefit. So while I understand what you are saying and you are entitled to your opinion, you make a good observation, but I do not mean to sound cold I am not concerned what the people of Iraq will think about Americans taking advantage of their situation because we already paid in more ways than one not just cash but blood as well.

[caz1104]

Opinion? Sure it is but I also asked to look at this thing from an Iraqi point of view. Do you honestly think the average Iraqi citizen would be ok with a couple of Million Americans receiving a far larger share of Iraqi wealth on an individual basis than the Iraqis? Surely you don't think the entire population of Iraq would get anywhere near as much as the speculators? Given all the suffering they have endured and all the lives lost from this war how would you feel in their situation, be honest now, really?

As far as the open minded comment, that's EXACTLY what I am being! I got caught up in this thing just like everyone else and for a long time I ignored the obvious but then I did become truly open minded and finally I started to think about about this rationally.

Your entitled to your OPINION but too often you state as facts. Open minded IMO would be if you argued both sides of the equation,still waiting on that to happen. Facts are actions not words,in this case IMO fact is you are'nt open minded but very jaded. No name calling just stating the facts. Best of luck to you regardless

[Papster]

Doug we paid US dollars for the dinar we hold right now, which goes into Iraqs bank, which goes to their money supply. The investment we made helps Iraq. Pretty simple. If this RV's as it stands right now many Iraqi's will also benefit. So while I understand what you are saying and you are entitled to your opinion, you make a good observation, but I do not mean to sound cold I am not concerned what the people of Iraq will think about Americans taking advantage of their situation because we already paid in more ways than one not just cash but blood as well.

exactly.........they could have saddam back.......oh yeah he is dead........for all the horrible atrocities against his people.........they should be grateful.......but they wont.......but i do believe in time if democracy really works for them.........which i doubt.......h ell look how it is turning out for us........one would think they would show some appreciation in time..........GO DINAR

[Alex38]

Alex38....you are right - we put him there but he will not make you money on this investment.

Then he needs to be "dealt" with. Ya feel me?

[caz1104]

Doug we paid US dollars for the dinar we hold right now, which goes into Iraqs bank, which goes to their money supply. The investment we made helps Iraq. Pretty simple. If this RV's as it stands right now many Iraqi's will also benefit. So while I understand what you are saying and you are entitled to your opinion, you make a good observation, but I do not mean to sound cold I am not concerned what the people of Iraq will think about Americans taking advantage of their situation because we already paid in more ways than one not just cash but blood as well.

I don't invest in stocks,currencey's,or commodities thinking of anything other than making a profit. If thats cold then u can call me Mr Freeze.

[DayTrader]

Doug we paid US dollars for the dinar we hold right now, which goes into Iraqs bank, which goes to their money supply. The investment we made helps Iraq. Pretty simple. If this RV's as it stands right now many Iraqi's will also benefit. So while I understand what you are saying and you are entitled to your opinion, you make a good observation, but I do not mean to sound cold I am not concerned what the people of Iraq will think about Americans taking advantage of their situation because we already paid in more ways than one not just cash but blood as well.

Well put......who cares what they think. They should be grateful there isn't an American flag stuck in the middle of Iraq. That's the spoils of war. If anybody is feeling guilty after the currency hits a real level, send your investment to an Iraqi family. But I bet you don't. So Says............DayTrader

[George Hayduke]

How so? Plus the average Iraqi, actuality I would think extremely few, would feel that they have anything but benefited financially and I can't believe this would not be seen as stealing Iraqi wealth, it sure would be used as a rallying point for the insurgents! Do you remember the near rioting that occurred just a few months back when it was suggested that Iraq reimburse the U.S. for the cost of the war? Those people don't want to see Americans receive financial gain from Iraq, don't kid yourself. Put yourself in the Iraqi position and forget for a moment about our potential financial gain from this, You could vote to RV to the few cents that would be possible without the RD and then pay out Billions to speculators OR you could RD first and then RV to a much higher rate of well over $1 to even $3 or more and keep those Billions at home instead of them going to foreign speculators, now be honest how would you vote? I know I am again going to be accused of the "broken record" but I think this is a legitimate question. We have been bombarded for a long time with only the positive, most of which was just wishful thinking and completely slanted to make it fit the way we wanted it to. For a long time I just went along and while sometimes I thought "that just don't make sense" I also thought that it probably would work out anyway, but then I got serious and started trying to think about this thing rationally and crunching the numbers without intentionally forcing them to fit. I finally realized that most of what we have been telling ourselves is simply impossible and too often we have been lying to ourselves without even knowing it. If the Iraqis are telling us something we don't like and there's no good explanation then assume they are just lying, but really are they? Maybe they are but we also need to consider the possibility they are not, and then there is the problem of the impossibly large figures that are either simply ignored or just explained away with fanciful explanations that are usually nothing more than a biased idea being presented as how something will happen. .

The questions I am asking are questions I asked myself and anyone who is in this thing needs to realize there is two sides to it, focusing only on what we want to hear and just automatically shutting out anything negative without even considering it will likely be a huge mistake if this thing does turn sour. We need to look at things that may very well be affecting us soon and there may be decisions that will need to be made but time may not be on our side if we wait until things go wrong and then start to worry about what to do. Rational discussion instead of wishful thinking and trying to look at this thing from the point of view of the people who will actually be calling the shots is all I am trying to do, what's wrong with doing that?

Doug, I’m not going to say you are a broken record but you have made a point of presenting your understanding in a respectful but determined manner. You share your beliefs fairly but are frustrated that many don’t understand how it is you have come to your conclusion. It is apparent you have the fortitude, determination and time to address almost every pro RV posting. If I might suggest ,your thoughts and conclusions may be better received and understood if you stepped back for a moment (it’s probably not going to RD/RV anytime soon anyway ) and took a moment to read and address the pro RV statements of Adam from this last month’s chat log and Scooters “World Bank Assessment of Iraq’s capital markets” http://emerginggeos.blogspot.com/2011/10/scooter-post-world-bank-assesment-of.html . A side by side comparison or point/counterpoint method of refutation would help us, me anyway, with seeing the black and white of your conclusions.

Who knows, you may be so correct that Adam and Scooter admit their errors and take down their websites and the rest of us can sell our dinars while they are still worth something.

[Darin]

This is another sticking point I have asked a couple of times and no one seems to have an opinion, given the mind-set of the population (in general terms anyway) what's going to happen when these people who have suffered so much from the devastation of the war discover that their Government has just made a decision that turned a couple of Million Americans into multi-Millionaires? Obviously this would be seen as Americans stealing Iraqi wealth especially since that would mean individual Americans would be receiving far more wealth from that decision than the average Iraqi citizen, after all it would be simply absurd to think that all or even most of the Iraqi population would also become Millionaires. When we consider that Iraqi politicians would most likely feel the same as the citizen in the street about where this money had gone, in addition to having to deal with the backlash, it could be that there may be a heck of a lot of resistance for that reason in addition to the financial implications of placing so much of Iraq's wealth in the pockets of foreigners. We can't argue that it's the Iraqis who will be making the decisions and these decisions will be to benefit Iraqis not foreign speculators so who will they favor?

It's all about how the words are spun to the masses...

Would be we be claiming the CBI made us rich?

Or would the CBI be claiming that the US investments helped bring the region back to its former self returning wealth?

It's all how you spin it..

And pretty sure if living conditions improve 100%, 1,000% or even 10,000%, the average citizen is not going to complain who got rich because of it other than that they're now happier themselves.

[Darin]

That's exactly the kind of thing I have been talking about, instead of rational discussion you came back accusing me of stating my opinion as fact but read what I wrote. I stated nothing and I gave no opinion, I asked questions I did not state opinion. I also pointed out these were questions I asked myself and I honestly think they are legitimate concerns.

I did state that I finally decided to look at this thing unbiased and with an open minded approach, that statement I will sick with.

Who cares what they think? WE should because THEY are going to make these decisions not us so what THEY think is what really matters and that's the point I have been trying to make!

You strike me as a pot stirrer. Its one thing to play devil's advocate, since I do it everyday on here, but your taking it to a different level. However, this is my opinion, and you can agree or disagree.

I see to often that some people are stubborn with big egos and will not admit their mistakes, some will act like they're always right and try to pass opinions as facts, some will try to prove they're all so great and full of knowledge regarding the subject at hand, and others quite frankly search for particular flaws to discredit a person (this is commonly seen with those that critique spelling/grammar).

Now back to the topic at hand...

I would argue that many of us do not have the full facts.. We can sit back & speculate, but that is about it at the moment.

We have no proof of a R/D or a R/V... We are hoping for one over another (obviously) but we're still sitting here & waiting for this to unfold.

We can choose to believe what we want to believe from what we read on the internet..

I think some things don't add up. In some aspects of that, I hope I am right, in others, I hope I am wrong.

[Darin]

Although I can't fully agree with the opinion of how they would feel the difference of opinion would be only that, a respectful difference of opinion.

+1 to you also for the thoughtful input on this.

A better question to ask, is how would they really be finding out?

It's not like Shabbibi or Saleh is going to have a press conference and say...

The new ID rate is $0.86 (1.17).... You are all now wealthy! - Oh & by the way, this event also helped make many many American's wealthy too... FYI!

Ya, I doubt it, I don't see it playing out that way...

How are they feeling about other American companies investing in their region now?? They're likely profitting....

Are they going to be angry about that too!?