My worth on this investment.

[chess]

KEEP: YOU MAKE SENSE. OUR 'NEW' 25 DINAR NOTE, WITH A HIGHER VALUE, WOULD PRECLUDE A RV RIGHT NOW. AND, SAVES THE CBI ZILLIONS OF DOLLARS OUT THE DOOR!

THE" BUY MORE NOW"--"TRADE IN-TRADE UP"--"CBI SELLS MORE FOR MORE MONEY" SCENARIOS WILL HAVE TO WAIT AWHILE.

[chess]

......DITTO, DOUG (AS I SAID FOR KEEP)......BUT, FOR THOSE THAT PRAY HARD....I TRULY 'PRAY' THAT FAITH TRUMPS LOGIC. G-D, I DESPISE LOGIC!

[pudge]

Pudge, a LOP is not the ONLY way they can get to where they need to be! I promise you that...

But if you want to take the easy way out and go with that route that is fine. It is actually very simple to understand and requires no research to learn about.

**This has always been a possibility and I understand EXACTLY how an RD works. I am not ruling it out. However, I personally feel they could have done this in the past but didn't! Why not? Maybe because they have other plans.

There really isn't anything they CAN do to get where they need to be. Or do you mean where RVers NEED them to be? The only thing Iraq can do is continue to stabilize this whole war-torn ravaged, sectarian divided and economically, infrastructurally shattered nation. And maybe vault it into at least third world status. Currency improvement may follow but not guaranteed as oil or anything other commodity is not related to currency along with many other variables for improvement which may require a lower valued Dinar.

You're not ruling out an RD? Other plans? What plans? What else as the Iraqi government said outside of an RD that would lead you to believe in another plan? An RV? How can you possibly RV w/o an RD? It's been shown every which way possible that a straight up RV cannot happen (unless you buy the 'Iraqis are proud people" argument). In any amount. This would be ruinous to Iraq.

But if you want to take the easy way out and go with that route that is fine. It is actually very simple to understand and requires no research to learn about

Well now...that hurt.

[zigmeister]

People will make any excuse to fit their fantasy. It's probably not even done on purpose. Some people who are lied to so many times and lie to themselves end up believing these lies as fact. I suppose its part of human nature to only believe the positive and ignore the negative.

Read more:

From my own personal experience, I find people are more likely to believe the negative than the positive. I have found for many it is easier to believe, if its too good to be true then it probably isn't it. So for those who do believe we will see an RV, it takes alot of inner faith to believe this investment will actually happen. I know for me some days after all of these RD articles I feel discouraged, but if for only a few who do know their stuff like 20 million, I feel better about it.

[20MillionDinar]

Because they were in a period of runaway inflation that resulted in the need to RD in the first place, historically no nation RDs during a period of inflation because it would accomplish little, rather they RD after they have brought their inflation under control. The RD is used as a means of erasing the adverse effects of past inflation, in other words it is used to "clean up the mess", and this is exactly where Iraq is today! They are in what is historically exactly the right time frame to RD, they have gotten their inflation under control and their economy is starting to grow so now they need to "clean up" the excesses from the inflationary period and that is exactly what a RD does.

I know this. They have had inflation under control for close to 5 years now! I asked why didn't they do it then?

I went back and read your original post and I owe you an apology on that one, I was thinking of something else.

Sorry about that

No problem.

[Scrumdiddles]

Ok want logic.

Most articles that come out talk about deleting the zeros, (LOP). Lopper want to believe every article that comes out saying LOP. OH but we hope it does not happen. Yet, they are still here pushing there LOP theory, still invested into a currency that they are for sure is going to lop. If they did not believe it was going to lop then they would not be confirming there belief by arguing and fighting over what these articles are saying. Which are mostly smoke and mirrors, the RV is one the most guarded secrets for a country. So if it will lop, why is your time wasted and your money setting in a investment that you obviously believe will make no money and you hope to break even. Because you know if they lop the currency and get rid of the higher denoms, you will not be able to trade them in to get the newer lower denoms. So why have the high denoms now? What kind of logic is that? There are millions of other investments out there right now and you hold on to fairytale hope, as lopper call it? Wasting effort to push everyone to believe in a lop, saying we need to be educated, i mean really you do not care that much for all the people in this investment.

Loppers keep crying wolf (lop), and when it doesn't LOP, there goes your creditability. Oh but MR. Scrum we never said it was a sure thing. Well you don't have to say that in those words, your actions speak louder than your words. I am sure here on DV most have made a mental note of who pushs the lop adjenda.

[pudge]

From my own personal experience, I find people are more likely to believe the negative than the positive. I have found for many it is easier to believe, if its too good to be true then it probably isn't it. So for those who do believe we will see an RV, it takes alot of inner faith to believe this investment will actually happen. I know for me some days after all of these RD articles I feel discouraged, but if for only a few who do know their stuff like 20 million, I feel better about it.

Zigmeister, why would you feel discouraged about an RD? You should feel the opposite. I may not believe in an RV but for it to happen it makes far more logical and logistical sense for it to happen following an RD.

It's really difficult to come up with any scenario that would support a straight up RV for the benefit of both Iraq and Dinar investors.

Keep your chin up. Seriously, it could happen with the right ingredients following an RD.

[20MillionDinar]

There really isn't anything they CAN do to get where they need to be. Or do you mean where RVers NEED them to be? The only thing Iraq can do is continue to stabilize this whole war-torn ravaged, sectarian divided and economically, infrastructurally shattered nation. And maybe vault it into at least third world status. Currency improvement may follow but not guaranteed as oil or anything other commodity is not related to currency along with many other variables for improvement which may require a lower valued Dinar.

You're not ruling out an RD? Other plans? What plans? What else as the Iraqi government said outside of an RD that would lead you to believe in another plan? An RV? How can you possibly RV w/o an RD? It's been shown every which way possible that a straight up RV cannot happen (unless you buy the 'Iraqis are proud people" argument). In any amount. This would be ruinous to Iraq.

But if you want to take the easy way out and go with that route that is fine. It is actually very simple to understand and requires no research to learn about

Well now...that hurt.

One thing that leaves me to believe they will not RD is the fact that they haven't! They have been talking about this for years, inflation has been stable, but they haven't done it! That is one big reason...

RV without RD - Easy. An RV to let's say 500:1 would not need lower denominations. Heck, even a 100:1 RV would not need lower denominations. OR - they could drop the fixed exchange rate program and let it float, I have already gone into depth of how the value would increase significantly once this happens. The fact that the M2 money supply is artificially over inflated and if they dropped the fixed exchange rate program they could take out trillions and trillions of dinar instantly. I have already explained how they can do this if the time comes...via Currency Auctions.

I don't buy the Iraqis are proud people argument, I go with facts.

Life is not about probabilities, it's about possibilities. I am not counting solely on this RV to make my fortune, that would be insane. But I also bring something to the table other than "this is an imminent RD..." "It's still going to be a good return if it RD's then RV's to $3.00..." Not if you've been waiting for more than 3 years...

Zigmeister, why would you feel discouraged about an RD? You should feel the opposite. I may not believe in an RV but for it to happen it makes far more logical and logistical sense for it to happen following an RD.

It's really difficult to come up with any scenario that would support a straight up RV for the benefit of both Iraq and Dinar investors.

Keep your chin up. Seriously, it could happen with the right ingredients following an RD.

Pudge - If you really are looking for a 300% increase in a few years there are tons of other ways to do that right now. Let me know and I can point you in the right direction...

I am speculating on the Dinar to make at least a 10:1 increase. 3:1 is dime a dozen especially if you are waiting 3-5 years. Some people have waited 8 years for this! I guarantee nobody is hoping for an RD then RV even to $3.00!

So no, I wouldn't expect anybody to feel "opposite of discouraged" when thinking about a potential RD. That is not why we are here, I'm sure you know that but you want to make sure that we know you are grounded, that's fine.

[20MillionDinar]

That has been the nagging question I have had from the beginning, why would Iraq RV and pay out all that money to speculators? I think everyone would agree that a RV would be an iron clad secret until it happens and the reason is obvious, to keep speculators from destroying their economy by "cashing in" and depleting the reserves. But at this point there are already so many speculators involved that Iraq would be liable for a tremendous loss to speculators, basically it's too late to prevent excessive speculation. I will admit that this is an over-simplification of the situation but I see two choices for Iraq, RV and pay out massive amounts to speculators or RD and pay nothing except the much smaller amounts to install a new currency. I am aware that the RV vs RD has advantages as well as disadvantages but what possible advantage would the straight up RV offer that would off-set the reserve depleting pay-out to the speculators that are already there?

All that still ignores the insurmountable problem of the fact that a RV of any significant size without a prior RD would involve unrealistic amounts of money.

I just answered this question for you but it seems as though you are ignoring the facts. So I'll tell you again:

You need to understand that if the value had a significant increase let's say to $.10 this would open the international community up to the Iraqi Dinar instantaneously! I would assume that if the IQD re-valued to $.10 then it would be an internationally recognized currency making it a tradeable currency on the FOREX market.

Iraq is not necessarily footing the bill, it is simply a transfer of wealth from us speculators who decide to cash out to some of the major financial institutions and investors deciding to invest into the IQD.

The FOREX is the largest market in the world with an average volume of $3-$4 trillion traded on a daily basis!

Hope this makes sense.

**Do you think that the US Government pays out everybody who owns a U.S. dollar? Of course not! Why would it be any different in Iraq's case? It wouldn't... It is simply a transfer of wealth from the seller to the buyer and from the buyer to the seller. You are obviously going to stick with what you are saying because your questions have been given answers. If you choose not to listen or believe then that is your choice.

Everybody holding Iraqi Dinar running back to the GOI to get U.S. dollars is exactly the same as saying everybody holding a U.S. dollar is going to run directly to the US Government and request something in exchange. This has never happened and will never happen, it is actually pretty insane to think this is even possible!

Edited November 10, 2011 by 20MillionDinar

[Maggie123]

20MillionDinar just want to Thank You for your intelligent, positive yet grounded perspectives on this investment we all share. I appreciate your input very much.

[pudge]

One thing that leaves me to believe they will not RD is the fact that they haven't! They have been talking about this for years, inflation has been stable, but they haven't done it! That is one big reason...

RV without RD - Easy. An RV to let's say 500:1 would not need lower denominations. Heck, even a 100:1 RV would not need lower denominations. OR - they could drop the fixed exchange rate program and let it float, I have already gone into depth of how the value would increase significantly once this happens. The fact that the M2 money supply is artificially over inflated and if they dropped the fixed exchange rate program they could take out trillions and trillions of dinar instantly. I have already explained how they can do this if the time comes...via Currency Auctions.

I don't buy the Iraqis are proud people argument, I go with facts.

Life is not about probabilities, it's about possibilities. I am not counting solely on this RV to make my fortune, that would be insane. But I also bring something to the table other than "this is an imminent RD..." "It's still going to be a good return if it RD's then RV's to $3.00..." Not if you've been waiting for more than 3 years...

Pudge - If you really are looking for a 300% increase in a few years there are tons of other ways to do that right now. Let me know and I can point you in the right direction...

I am speculating on the Dinar to make at least a 10:1 increase. 3:1 is dime a dozen especially if you are waiting 3-5 years. Some people have waited 8 years for this! I guarantee nobody is hoping for an RD then RV even to $3.00!

So no, I wouldn't expect anybody to feel "opposite of discouraged" when thinking about a potential RD. That is not why we are here, I'm sure you know that but you want to make sure that we know you are grounded, that's fine.

I'm looking for a 300% increase? Point me in the right direction? Maybe you're mixing me up with another poster?

[20MillionDinar]

I'm looking for a 300% increase? Point me in the right direction? Maybe you're mixing me up with another poster?

Your exact words:

Zigmeister, why would you feel discouraged about an RD? You should feel the opposite. I may not believe in an RV but for it to happen it makes far more logical and logistical sense for it to happen following an RD.

It's really difficult to come up with any scenario that would support a straight up RV for the benefit of both Iraq and Dinar investors.

Keep your chin up. Seriously, it could happen with the right ingredients following an RD.

300% is the most you would ever see if it Rd's then RV's and that is before "exchange fees" and/or spreads.

I don't think I have you mixed up, your name is "pudge" right? I thought so... Unless maybe you are hoping for less?

Edited November 10, 2011 by 20MillionDinar

[zigmeister]

The way I see it, Iraq can make money on an RV. They start at a low rate, some people cash in. Yes Iraq will have to pay out, but they will make money on the spread, as well the banks. Every time they raise the rate, they make more. With an RD in the short term they have to pay out for advertising, new currency. Not all RD's are successful, it could cause more problems than it's worth.

[20MillionDinar]

Don't know where to start!

Of course no on can say there will for sure be an RD just as you can't say with certainty the won't be.

[...Because you know if they lop the currency and get rid of the higher denoms, you will not be able to trade them in to get the newer lower denoms. So why have the high denoms now? What kind of logic is that? ...]

You can't??? who told you that? Of course the old denominations will be tradable for the newer notes. The older higher de-nomination notes will trade directly for the newer replacement de-nomination and be worth the same, how many more times must you be told that?

Why would we stay in this thing just because we have no hope of fabulous wealth for little investment as promised by the pumpers? Because some of us do believe that IF Iraq can manage to stay together and not fail due to sectarian violence and IF they get their economy on a roll then there could be some real profits to be made even after a RD, heck even a modest RV that does not make everyone rich may still be worth waiting on. Come on down to Earth and quit believing the pumper generated version of the RV and you might find that even though you may not get fabulously wealthy you could still make some money.

We are talking about two different things but I understand why what I said might be confusing, I have said that as much as a 10 cent RV might indeed be a possible alternative to a RD and I would be very happy if it turns out that way. Rather what I was referring to is the pumper version of the RV at a dollar or well above without a RD first.

I see what you're saying now. Yes, you are right. If Iraq RV's their currency right off the bat to $2 or $3 then everybody in their right mind would cash in immediately causing a massive problem for Iraq, it would more than likely crash their economy...

[trooper]

Who's to say they will come out with new currency.. I don't think it will matter.. They all will be on Ration cards, Food allowance, Gas allowance, And oil dividends all on one card.. E currency... Like anythings over there... Be happy with what you get or be killed..

Edited November 10, 2011 by trooper

[20MillionDinar]

Actually I have been listening, a lot more than you realize and if you go back and look at my posts I think I have made it clear that I am not insisting a RD is the only thing that can happen nor have I insisted that a RV can not happen, just that I firmly believe a straight-up RV of a dollar or more is impossible. I do think those who say a RD is not possible are not being realistic but being possible, or even likely, is certainly not the same thing as positively going to happen.

I'm sorry if I came off too strong. I agree, anybody who rules out an RD completely is being unrealistic. It is a possibility.

Edited November 10, 2011 by 20MillionDinar

[pudge]

I just answered this question for you but it seems as though you are ignoring the facts. So I'll tell you again:

You need to understand that if the value had a significant increase let's say to $.10 this would open the international community up to the Iraqi Dinar instantaneously! I would assume that if the IQD re-valued to $.10 then it would be an internationally recognized currency making it a tradeable currency on the FOREX market.

Iraq is not necessarily footing the bill, it is simply a transfer of wealth from us speculators who decide to cash out to some of the major financial institutions and investors deciding to invest into the IQD.

The FOREX is the largest market in the world with an average volume of $3-$4 trillion traded on a daily basis!

Hope this makes sense.

This is an insurmountable hodge podge of wishful thinking with a lot of unrealistic assumptions.

if the value had a significant increase let's say to $.10 this would open the international community up to the Iraqi Dinar instantaneously

IF? That IS the question!! What would cause this if? Why would Iraq do this? Increase? What increase? An 'increase' to .10 would only increase the value to the seller of Dinar not the Buyer. What in the world would possess

**Do you think that the US Government pays out everybody who owns a U.S. dollar? Of course not! Why would it be any different in Iraq's case? It wouldn't... It is simply a transfer of wealth from the seller to the buyer and from the buyer to the seller. You are obviously going to stick with what you are saying because your questions have been given answers. If you choose not to listen or believe then that is your choice.

Everybody holding Iraqi Dinar running back to the GOI to get U.S. dollars is exactly the same as saying everybody holding a U.S. dollar is going to run directly to the US Government and request something in exchange. This has never happened and will never happen, it is actually pretty insane to think this is even possible!

This is an insurmountable hodge podge of wishful thinking with a lot of unrealisitce assumptions.

if the value had a significant increase let's say to $.10 this would open the international community up to the Iraqi Dinar instantaneously

IF? That IS the question!! What would cause this IF? Why would Iraq do this? Increase? What increase? An 'increase' to .10 would only increase the value to the seller of Dinar, not to the Buyer. The Dinar would decrease in value!!! You're telling me that if Iraq suddenly announces that the Dinar is suddenly going to cost 100 times more than it does now is going to magically make it 'recognized internationally' which will bring it to the FOREX and millions of dinar currency buyers? For a guy who's only interrested in facts you've entered the pumper zone. Again, who would by a currency that costs 100 times more from one day to the next just because Iraq said so? The FOREX is a zero sum game. When you buy currency at a rate, someone else has to sell it at same rate - and vice versa : when you sell currency, someone else has to buy it at same rate. All this talk of "everyone's a winner from an RV" really is uneducated nonsense. If the Dinar "RV'd" without any RD / lop, then Iraq would have to monetize $25bn (29 Trillion Dinar at 1170) into $25tn (29 Trillion Dinar at 1.170) worth of overprinted currency - or in other words, it would have magically create $24.975tn overnight from nothing causing massive hyperinflation.

95% of FOREX trading involves the seven pairs of the seven major currencies. It will be years before Iraq even gets a whiff of the FOREX

"Everybody holding Iraqi Dinar running back to the GOI to get U.S. dollars is exactly the same as saying everybody holding a U.S. dollar is going to run directly to the US Government and request something in exchange. This has never happened and will never happen, it is actually pretty insane to think this is even possible!"

You've got to be kidding!! Of course people don't go running to exchange the Dollar for some other currency. The gains or losses on any given day against the other currencies are microscopic. But if Amercians knew they could turn in $1,000 for a million Euros you don't think they would go running? That's what we're talking about with the Dinar here.

Now who's insane?

Edited November 10, 2011 by pudge

[20MillionDinar]

This is an insurmountable hodge podge of wishful thinking with a lot of unrealisitce assumptions.

if the value had a significant increase let's say to $.10 this would open the international community up to the Iraqi Dinar instantaneously

IF? That IS the question!! What would cause this IF? Why would Iraq do this? Increase? What increase? An 'increase' to .10 would only increase the value to the seller of Dinar, not to the Buyer. The Dinar would decrease in value!!! You're telling me that if Iraq suddenly announces that the Dinar is suddenly going to cost 100 times more than it does now is going to magically make it 'recognized internationally' which will bring it to the FOREX and millions of dinar currency buyers? For a guy who's only interrested in facts you've entered the pumper zone. Again, who would by a currency that costs 100 times more from one day to the next just because Iraq said so? The FOREX is a zero sum game. When you buy currency at a rate, someone else has to sell it at same rate - and vice versa : when you sell currency, someone else has to buy it at same rate. All this talk of "everyone's a winner from an RV" really is uneducated nonsense. If the Dinar "RV'd" without any RD / lop, then Iraq would have to monetize $25bn (29 Trillion Dinar at 1170) into $25tn (29 Trillion Dinar at 1.170) worth of overprinted currency - or in other words, it would have magically create $24.975tn overnight from nothing causing massive hyperinflation.

95% of FOREX trading involves the seven pairs of the seven major currencies. It will be years before Iraq even gets a whiff of the FOREX

"Everybody holding Iraqi Dinar running back to the GOI to get U.S. dollars is exactly the same as saying everybody holding a U.S. dollar is going to run directly to the US Government and request something in exchange. This has never happened and will never happen, it is actually pretty insane to think this is even possible!"

You've got to be kidding!! Of course people don't go running to exchange the Dollar for some other currency. The gains or losses on any given day against the other currencies are microscopic. But if Amercians knew they could turn in $1,000 for a million Euros you don't think they would go running? That's what we're talking about with the Dinar here.

Now who's insane?

I'll tell you what would cause this: Dropping the fixed exchange rate (assuming Iraq was ready) and adopting a flexible exchange rate system. If supply and demand dictates the true value then that is what would happen. This would not happen just because Iraq said so, their rate is currently ARTIFICIAL. Does this make sense? It means that regardless of what anybody thinks the currency is worth the IMF and Iraq is telling us this is all it is worth. There is nothing anybody can do or say to make this change! Hence the word, "fixed exchange rate" system!

You're right when saying that "When you buy currency at a rate, someone else has to sell it at same rate - and vice versa : when you sell currency, someone else has to buy it at same rate." I never said "everyone's a winner..." So you are telling me that once the Iraqi Dinar is an internationally recognized currency that demand will not increase? That is pretty naive to think that considering the fact that the amount of people speculating on the IQD right now is microscopic...

RV without RD - I have already showed you that by adopting a flexible exchange rate they would not need as much physical currency in circulation which is currently being used to prop up and suppress the rate on a day to day basis. This is because they are using a fixed exchange rate system specified by the IMF. They could easily bring in trillions of Dinars via the currency auctions and destroy them as they would no longer be necessary for reasons I just mentioned above. The level of reserves required to maintain a flexible rate may be lower than that required to maintain a fixed one. In addition, improved supervision of private sector foreign currency exposures may reduce reserve requirements.

Supply and Demand - As value starts to increase (even in very small amounts) more buyers will enter the market, and more people will sell. Simple economic principle... The value become more liquid as the amount of volume increases.

The entire point you are missing is that NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO TRY TO CASH IN THEIR IQD AT ONE TIME. THE GOI WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING OUT EVERYBODY WHO HOLD IQD AS MORE PEOPLE ENTER THE MARKET AND BUY/SELL THE IQD.

Now who's insand: Sounds like you took that to the hear Pudge... Getting a little heated I see, that's alright. Some people argue just for the sake of being right, I'm not that kind of guy. Just trying to bring another side to the table here. I'm not going to argue all day with you. Enjoy your day!

[20MillionDinar]

Ok this goes back to the shear size of the monetary supply, just how much worth is anyone going to place on this currency with around 30 Trillion in circulation? Without a RD would it not be more likely that the artificial rate is propping up the Dinar and that maybe it would actually decline in value if left on it's own in the market?

I was trying to be polite earlier, but this is exactly what I was talking about. I answer a question and you don't read or you aren't listening. Read the BIG FONT below.

RV without RD - I have already showed you that by adopting a flexible exchange rate they would not need as much physical currency in circulation which is currently being used to prop up and suppress the rate on a day to day basis. This is because they are using a fixed exchange rate system specified by the IMF. They could easily bring in trillions of Dinars via the currency auctions and destroy them as they would no longer be necessary for reasons I just mentioned above. The level of reserves required to maintain a flexible rate may be lower than that required to maintain a fixed one. In addition, improved supervision of private sector foreign currency exposures may reduce reserve requirements.

Supply and Demand - As value starts to increase (even in very small amounts) more buyers will enter the market, and more people will sell. Simple economic principle... The value become more liquid as the amount of volume increases.

Edited November 10, 2011 by 20MillionDinar

[Rossenbos]

To reduce the money supply to a more managable number not only for banking transactions, but for the opportunity to add more value to the dinar....the less there is of something, the more value it will carry....simple supply and demand tactics......t

Keep still believes in text book fairytales of how the economy works.

All the fiat money creation in the US based on a currency backed by zilch hasn't taught him that this theory is only meant to make us believe that our money is actually worth something....

They printed trillions of new dollars in the US in the last decade. Is that because they found more gold trees in Oregon? Or was it based on more productivity? Nonsense. It's build on BELIEF.

You are the one drinking KOOLAID :-)

[luckyone]

If my math is right with me having a masters in math and physics, it would be very possible to RV low without a RD and here is how. There is said to be around 30 tril dinar floating around. If they RV at .10USD to 1IQD it would cost Iraq 3 tril USD to buy it all back, but they could place a 30% spread which makes them only pay 2.1 tril USD and all dinar would be off the market. Now say investors come in and buy up 15 tril worth of dinar at 10 cents and Iraq raises the value to .15USD to 1IQD, it would cost them 2.25 tril to buy and with another 30% spread pay only 1.575 tril for it. See how this is going? Every time they RV at higher rate its going to make them money. I do agree with those who say it won't RV higher then 1 to 1 because thats just not possible and it is possible to RD without an RV first and we will lose, but like with any gamble don't play if your not willing to lose. Yes 2.1 tril would be a lot to come up with but after all the money the US and other countries have put into Iraq it's not impossible. I also know for a fact that the US has large amounts of dinar on hand because when I was in the army I was stationed in Iraq in 2004 when it got shipped to the US, and why would Bush say this war would pay for itself? I'm not claiming to be a big know it all investor, but I do know Iraq has too much at stake to make the wrong choices. Either way they go I'm in it till the end nomatter what everyone says about it lopping. If they redominate before they RV it will take a lot of dinar of the street but it will also not make them as much because the less they have to buy back the less they make off the spread.

[pudge]

I'll tell you what would cause this: Dropping the fixed exchange rate (assuming Iraq was ready) and adopting a flexible exchange rate system. If supply and demand dictates the true value then that is what would happen. This would not happen just because Iraq said so, their rate is currently ARTIFICIAL. Does this make sense? It means that regardless of what anybody thinks the currency is worth the IMF and Iraq is telling us this is all it is worth. There is nothing anybody can do or say to make this change! Hence the word, "fixed exchange rate" system!

You're right when saying that "When you buy currency at a rate, someone else has to sell it at same rate - and vice versa : when you sell currency, someone else has to buy it at same rate." I never said "everyone's a winner..." So you are telling me that once the Iraqi Dinar is an internationally recognized currency that demand will not increase? That is pretty naive to think that considering the fact that the amount of people speculating on the IQD right now is microscopic...

RV without RD - I have already showed you that by adopting a flexible exchange rate they would not need as much physical currency in circulation which is currently being used to prop up and suppress the rate on a day to day basis. This is because they are using a fixed exchange rate system specified by the IMF. They could easily bring in trillions of Dinars via the currency auctions and destroy them as they would no longer be necessary for reasons I just mentioned above. The level of reserves required to maintain a flexible rate may be lower than that required to maintain a fixed one. In addition, improved supervision of private sector foreign currency exposures may reduce reserve requirements.

Supply and Demand - As value starts to increase (even in very small amounts) more buyers will enter the market, and more people will sell. Simple economic principle... The value become more liquid as the amount of volume increases.

The entire point you are missing is that NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO TRY TO CASH IN THEIR IQD AT ONE TIME. THE GOI WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING OUT EVERYBODY WHO HOLD IQD AS MORE PEOPLE ENTER THE MARKET AND BUY/SELL THE IQD.

Now who's insand: Sounds like you took that to the hear Pudge... Getting a little heated I see, that's alright. Some people argue just for the sake of being right, I'm not that kind of guy. Just trying to bring another side to the table here. I'm not going to argue all day with you. Enjoy your day!

I'm not going to argue all day either so this is it for me. We all know the principles of supply and demand, artificial pegs and floating currency. But your into the 'if', not likely, scenarios again

ARTIFIALLY PEGGED? Understood, nothing anyone can do about it except not buy the Dinar which is what would happen if they artificially pegged it higher.

FLEXIBLE EXCHANGE RATE? Well of course that would have the ability (ever so slightly over time and based on multiple other economic and political factors) to raise the real value of the Dinar. But again 'if' they are ready and a flexible exchange rate may actually make it decrease in value which is probably why it's not flexible now. Nobody wants it. So you just admitted it and I agree that supply and demand over time may help the Dinar. BUT NOT THE OVERNIGHT 100 TIMES OR .10. But then again you said that is possible overnight with a flexible exchange rate but that a flexible exchange rate would take time based on supply and demand. So which is it?

So you're talking in circles here.

UNIVERSALLY RECOGNIZED CURRENCY? Recognized for what? It's weakness? Oh that's right, the flexible exchange rate. You're caught in a catch 22....currency can't have value unless it's universally recognized but it can't be universally recognized unless it has value. That's what this whole RV craze is about. An instant raising of the trade in value of the Dinar by impossible factors. You even said a 2 dollar is unreasonable and I'm saying .10 cents is unreasonable because it creates a run on the foreign currency reserves in Iraq with a 100 fold return. You know currency markets don't work that way. No trader is going to say to another trader "Sure, I'll give you a hundred times what you paid for it because it's 'universally recognized'. Pure internet dinar pumping claptrap.

As far as being insane you said it would be insane to think that everyone would run to cash in for Dollars at even a 100 times return. So not everybody would cash in $1,000 worth of dinars for $100,000 cash?...No?, they wouldn't?.....OK, I'm insane

We all appreciate the intellectual approach you've tried to take in presenting any possible scenario for the trade in value of the Dinar to increase suddenly. But it's still all the same. Full of ifs, maybees, could bees, chances, I'll bets, hopefullies, might bees, someday, anyday, etc

You also enjoy you're day!

Keep still believes in text book fairytales of how the economy works.

All the fiat money creation in the US based on a currency backed by zilch hasn't taught him that this theory is only meant to make us believe that our money is actually worth something....

They printed trillions of new dollars in the US in the last decade. Is that because they found more gold trees in Oregon? Or was it based on more productivity? Nonsense. It's build on BELIEF.

You are the one drinking KOOLAID :-)

IT'S BUILT ON BELIEF?

Uh....there is 1170 times more belief in the US dollar than the Iraqi Dinar.

Really dumb post

Edited November 10, 2011 by pudge

[luckyone]

I wonder what everyone in the US and other countries would think if all of a sudden the gov decided that it didn't want to pay for all the money that it has out and decided to lop off 3 0's making a $100 worth 10 cents. They only reason for a redomination is to avoid paying for all the notes they printed. I can see what the RD would do as far as making smaller notes and making room for the value to go up, but if they RD I think they should atleast give you the amont of small denom. for what you have in large denom. If you have 1,000,000 in large notes I think you should get 1,000,000 in small notes. Thats what I meant by saying so they don't have to cover all the money they printed.

[Rossenbos]

If my math is right with me having a masters in math and physics, it would be very possible to RV low without a RD and here is how. There is said to be around 30 tril dinar floating around. If they RV at .10USD to 1IQD it would cost Iraq 3 tril USD to buy it all back, but they could place a 30% spread which makes them only pay 2.1 tril USD and all dinar would be off the market. Now say investors come in and buy up 15 tril worth of dinar at 10 cents and Iraq raises the value to .15USD to 1IQD, it would cost them 2.25 tril to buy and with another 30% spread pay only 1.575 tril for it. See how this is going? Every time they RV at higher rate its going to make them money. I do agree with those who say it won't RV higher then 1 to 1 because thats just not possible and it is possible to RD without an RV first and we will lose, but like with any gamble don't play if your not willing to lose. Yes 2.1 tril would be a lot to come up with but after all the money the US and other countries have put into Iraq it's not impossible. I also know for a fact that the US has large amounts of dinar on hand because when I was in the army I was stationed in Iraq in 2004 when it got shipped to the US, and why would Bush say this war would pay for itself? I'm not claiming to be a big know it all investor, but I do know Iraq has too much at stake to make the wrong choices. Either way they go I'm in it till the end nomatter what everyone says about it lopping. If they redominate before they RV it will take a lot of dinar of the street but it will also not make them as much because the less they have to buy back the less they make off the spread.

EXACTLY!

You said it well.

I

IT'S BUILT ON BELIEF?

Uh....there is 1170 times more belief in the US dollar than the Iraqi Dinar.

Really dumb post

If you think my post was dumb, you just disqualified yourself big time in my view and I don't want to even spend more time on you after this last reply.

Fiat currency is built on belief. Not on gold. Or oil. Or productivity. Do you know how much US$ are in circulation? No. You don't. Because it's hidding. There are 9T off balance sheet $ "found" recently by the Fed Governors which they can't account for and God knows how much more Ts are out there without them or us knowing.

Currencies and money is based on bugger all.

All of these values and rations are artificially manipulated. There is no such thing as "the economy".

If supply and demand would really work, the US$ would have been dead.

America is bankrupt and the US$ is worth ****. In reality.

But as we all "still believe in it" the $ is still what it is.

You need to do some serious research and look beyond the economy textbooks you got in prep school.

[luckyone]

That would be doing exactly the opposite of what the RD is supposed to accomplish. The idea for the RD is to remove physical currency and reduce the numbers of Dinars used for any transaction. What you are proposing would not only not do anything to reduce the numbers of Dinar per transaction it would INCREASE the numbers of physical notes in circulation!

I know what it would be doing and I know what a RD is supposed to do. And what's to say they will even RV after a RD? I'm standing my ground that it will RV(atleast at a low amount)before a RD. And for all those that don't beleive this is going to RV thats fine, beleive what you want. Just stop bending over backwards to try and make everyone else beleive you. Just because I'm athiest doesn't mean I should start telling everyone on here that god don't exsist. Let people beleive what they want, even if it is unlikely. I have $2000 invested in this and if I lose it so what, I have lost more then that playing blackjack. If no one took risk then where would this country be? I look at it this way; just like gambling, the higher the risk the greater the payout.