My worth on this investment.

[keepmwlknfny]

A straight up Re-denomination wouldn't take much time to prepare for at all. Period. It is a simple exchange of currency, they've done it before (during a time of war and massive chaos) and they can do it again. Obviously there is much more going on behind the scenes!

So then you think a RV wouldnt take much time to prepare for at all either?

What happened in 2003 wasent really a redenomination.....just changing the currency and adding a few more denominations....

[caughtinthecrossfire]

I'm going to have to change my answer: Inflation in Iraq has dropped, averaging just 1.6 percent between 2007 and 2009.

However, this is due to the fact that they have manipulated their currency value through the fixed exchange rate and their currency auctions...

Yeah, but it was not really a secret to their strategy, I don't think. Heck, the auctions were set up SO long ago. As I understood it two years ago....and watched earlier this year...there was a lull and then it began to rise again. Most LoPsters I read up on were suggesting inflation rates being stable for a time and then begining to rise as the perfect indicator that an RD could be used. Why? I've no idea. Nothing in two years ever gave me that answer, but then, I never understood why we even had a LoP thrown in with an RD either, so waddaIknow.

In any case...if what I've suggested is true about conditions for an RD...that clock stopped way back in June. And thanks, 20mill....you and Keep....keep me on my toes.

[20MillionDinar]

So then you think a RV wouldnt take much time to prepare for at all either?

What happened in 2003 wasent really a redenomination.....just changing the currency and adding a few more denominations....

I believe an RV would take time to prepare for, value is changing. With a re-denomination all you are doing is exchanging currency and knocking off 3 zeroes of everything in the country.

You have said so yourself multiple times, it is a neutral change! An RV is not neutral, value is being created.

Edited November 10, 2011 by 20MillionDinar

[caughtinthecrossfire]

So then you think a RV wouldnt take much time to prepare for at all either?

What happened in 2003 wasent really a redenomination.....just changing the currency and adding a few more denominations....

Keep...you may wanna step back from your screen and look at what you just said. (r u on meds, atm?) jkjk!!

Explain the difference in difficulty between passing out new currency....and passing out new currency.

And as 20mill suggests...planning an RV isn't as simple in timing as an RD would be. Not with the IMF..and others...involved, I'm sure.

[20MillionDinar]

Yeah, but it was not really a secret to their strategy, I don't think. Heck, the auctions were set up SO long ago. As I understood it two years ago....and watched earlier this year...there was a lull and then it began to rise again. Most LoPsters I read up on were suggesting inflation rates being stable for a time and then begining to rise as the perfect indicator that an RD could be used. Why? I've no idea. Nothing in two years ever gave me that answer, but then, I never understood why we even had a LoP thrown in with an RD either, so waddaIknow.

In any case...if what I've suggested is true about conditions for an RD...that clock stopped way back in June. And thanks, 20mill....you and Keep....keep me on my toes.

No problem Caught, actually the Auctions were setup back in 2003. The first auctions were only like $20k worth of currency... They were not electronic either...

This mechanism was put in place from day 1.

[keepmwlknfny]

I see what you are saying and I understand completely. Thanks for your input Keep! You're one of our most valued members here at DV and are an asset to us all.

You bring alot of valid information to DV as well.....stuff that most wont take the time to try and look for!! I appreciate the side you bring to the table....gotta pull from every angle possible ya dig!?!?

BTW, you get MW3 yet? LOL I think Im gonna go pick that up today....

[easyrider]

I'm going to have to change my answer: Inflation in Iraq has dropped, averaging just 1.6 percent between 2007 and 2009.

However, this is due to the fact that they have manipulated their currency value through the fixed exchange rate and their currency auctions...

What i have been told from some sources is that you cannot trust the true numbers of inflation they publish for one if they are indeed higher than they say they are they wont come out and say the true inflation rate because that will scare foreign investors off which they want in Iraq so to determine the numbers by just reading it is simply not true and i wouldnt trust them to publish the proper inflation rates in country i dont believe its gone down and is going up and about to reach double digits soon IMHO.

You bring alot of valid information to DV as well.....stuff that most wont take the time to try and look for!! I appreciate the side you bring to the table....gotta pull from every angle possible ya dig!?!?

BTW, you get MW3 yet? LOL I think Im gonna go pick that up today....

you are behind bro already got it lol

[20MillionDinar]

You bring alot of valid information to DV as well.....stuff that most wont take the time to try and look for!! I appreciate the side you bring to the table....gotta pull from every angle possible ya dig!?!?

BTW, you get MW3 yet? LOL I think Im gonna go pick that up today....

I feel ya.

Not yet, probably going to grab it this weekend! I'll see you on.... LOL

I've got to catch some zzzzz's.... It's after 12:00am already! I'll see you all tomorrow!

Edited November 10, 2011 by 20MillionDinar

[keepmwlknfny]

I believe an RV would take time to prepare for, value is changing. With a re-denomination all you are doing is exchanging currency and knocking off 3 zeroes of everything in the country.

You have said so yourself multiple times, it is a neutral change! An RV is not neutral, value is being created.

But there is an RV that takes place along with the RD.....

I really dont see much of a difference at all.....cause whatever you would need to plan for to be ready to see a jump in value to 1 USD, you would still need to be prepared for in the event of a doing a RD first...

Keep...you may wanna step back from your screen and look at what you just said. (r u on meds, atm?) jkjk!!

Explain the difference in difficulty between passing out new currency....and passing out new currency.

And as 20mill suggests...planning an RV isn't as simple in timing as an RD would be. Not with the IMF..and others...involved, I'm sure.

If you go by the textbook definition and any other definition you can find of a redenomination, then simply adding a few denominations, changing the face of the bill and exchanging them evenly at 1 to 1 doesnt fit.....otherwise you would/could say that Kuwait redenominated but they didnt, and you will never find any reference to what Kuwait did or to what Iraq did in 2003 as a redenomination....

you are behind bro already got it lol

Please tell me its the best COD ever!! LOL Im gonna be pissed if its not......either way im probly buyin it anyway hahaha and ill be on to stab you in the face!!! HUMILIATION!!!!

[caughtinthecrossfire]

But there is an RV that takes place along with the RD.....

I really dont see much of a difference at all.....cause whatever you would need to plan for to be ready to see a jump in value to 1 USD, you would still need to be prepared for in the event of a doing a RD first...

True...sort of...but not if the new currency (has anyone ACTUALLY seen it yet) is to be modeled in rank after the newer rate is proven stable and current denoms of the larger type largely removed from circulation?

I just still think if an RD was legitimate, the time has long since been ready. Legitimately, there should be no reason for it not having been done if Shabs intended it all along. At least...no reason I've come to understand.

P.S. I've never suggested a 1 to 1 exchange, just an exchange as they did previously....a currency exchange like they currently do in country.

Again, thanks Keep

[speculatorsRIDE]

Yeah, but it was not really a secret to their strategy, I don't think. Heck, the auctions were set up SO long ago. As I understood it two years ago....and watched earlier this year...there was a lull and then it began to rise again. Most LoPsters I read up on were suggesting inflation rates being stable for a time and then begining to rise as the perfect indicator that an RD could be used. Why? I've no idea. Nothing in two years ever gave me that answer, but then, I never understood why we even had a LoP thrown in with an RD either, so waddaIknow.

In any case...if what I've suggested is true about conditions for an RD...that clock stopped way back in June. And thanks, 20mill....you and Keep....keep me on my toes.

I am curious as to why you keep referring to a lop being thrown in with a RD. A lop and a RD are the same thing. Granted there are different ways of RDing and lopping the ero's is not always part of it, but when saying lop, that would be a RD.

[speculatorsRIDE]

Follow me.

Iraqi citizen 1 gets paid 1 day before RV, received 10,000 Dinar for his work.

Iraqi Citizen 1 take 2 days off after getting paid.

Iraqi Citizen 2 gets paid 1 day after RV, he receives 10,000 of the new currency.

Iraq LOPS there old bills the IQD and issues new currency without the zeros.

So you are telling me the Iraqi citizen 1 now has 10 dinars (minus 000) and the Iraqi citizen 2 has 10,000 of the new currency. Bullsh**. Iraqi citizen will go blow up a building, because that is what they do when p*ssed.

LOP WILL NOT HAPPEN LOPSTERS. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY.

Iraqi citizen 1 is getting screwed. Or as i have called it before CHEATED. Both Iraqi citizens got paid 10,000 dinar for there work, because Iraqi citizen 1 got paid before the so call LOP he now after the LOP only has 10 dinar. He got CHEATED. So yes a lop is CHEATING.

Read more:

Iraqi citizen 2 will not receive 10,000IQD after the revalue. In order for us to know how much he will receive, we will have to know what the RV was. Post RV all wages, contracts, price tags, etc. will have to be adjusted to reflect the new value of the IQD.

You then state after that they lop the old currency. Then you say "So you are telling me the Iraqi citizen 1 now has 10 dinars (minus 000) and the Iraqi citizen 2 has 10,000 of the new currency." This statement would be incorrect. If they in fact waited till after both were paid, then both would have their dinar reduced by 000's. However, if you are saying they lopped the zero's off the old currency paid to citizen 1 at the same time they RV'd and citizen 2 was paid in new currency, then citizen 2 would not have received 10,000IQD anyway. Just need a little clarification as to what you are trying to say here. Thanks.

[drlewis]

Money supply.... Cant they just remove a ton of it with the auctions in like 10 days of destroying it prior to rv?

30 trillion to 30 billion.... Can a country survive on 30 billion?

[drlewis]

Keep, what are your thoughts on my above post?

[MrDinarman]

Money supply.... Cant they just remove a ton of it with the auctions in like 10 days of destroying it prior to rv?

30 trillion to 30 billion.... Can a country survive on 30 billion?

They only have 30 million citizens

[drlewis]

Physically removing the notes won't work because 30 trillion is 1,000 times more than 30 billion so they would have to remove 29, 970,000,000,000 Dinar from circulation and leave only 30,000,000,000 at less than 1 cent each so at the current exchange rate there simply would not be enough money to operate on, that is even if they could pull off such a stunt. RV first? That might at first seem to solve the problem but that of course would require RVing to 30 Trillion dollars at a 1 to 1 rate and since there is not enough dollars in the industrialized world to support that kind of RV it simply can't be done. Even if they could do that it would involve handing out Trillions of dollars of their assets to speculators so why would they even want to? If they RD first then at the same time the exchange rate becomes higher at the same ratio then the money supply drops to a reasonable level, no buying power for the citizens is lost and (unfortunately for us) they are not going to be liable to hand out trillions of dollars (that they don't have in the first place) to speculators. If you were in the Iraqi Government and looking out for Iraqi interests what would you do?

Right but what about my first question?? Looks to me they can remove a lot of the money supply in about 10 days..

[drlewis]

Right, Again I will ask, If they take in over a trillion dinar a day at auction, all the would have to do is destroy it for 20 days or so and the money supply would be down..

[pudge]

20million Dinar Said

"Major Investors, traders, financial institutions are not stupid. They have ways of analyzing a countries currency to determine its true value".

Well that's true. Which is the reason they haven't bought Dinar as an investment. I understand RVers believe it's a secret that these major traders just haven't found out about yet and aren't supposed to because it would ruin it for everybody on these internet sites who have fortunately found out about this overnight rags to riches investment thru 'secret intel'.

These Major investors, traders and financial institutions certainly have ways to determine a country's currency and if the Dinar were to 'float' on the Forex and other currency exchanges it's exchange rate would be even worse than it is now. I don't believe it would bring in major investment in the Dinar as 20milliondinar indicated. The reason these traders don't buy the Dinar is not because it's not traded on the currency markets. They don't buy it because it's worthless.

Keepmwlknfny says just the shear amount of dinar that's been bought by US citizens has or could be having a stabilizing affect on the Dinar and could be in the range of 2 to 3 trillion dinar. Well, it could be but just using the 3 trillion dinar figure would mean that represents around 3 billion Dollars. Even a .10 RV would mean a payout of Iraqi banks to Americans of 300 billion Dollars. Since they only have about 60Billion in foreign currency (25 billion in Dollars) where does the CBI get the rest and why would they want to? A .10 RV would not revalue the Dinar into more wealth it would devalue it lower and create more debt and reduce demand. I mean if nobody is buying it now (except for internet site buyers) at 1 cent for 11 Dinar, who is going to pay $1.11 for 11 Dinar?

As for the RD, 20milliondinar asks what is the purpose of one, what is to keep Iraq from inflating the currency or doing the same thing over again? Well nothing. that IS why they're doing it. So they can start over and do it again and for the convenience of creating a currency that can accomodate large bank transactions with large notes, smaller 100 notes and coins which ease purchasing for Iraqis.

Here's the article which I've posted before on what Iraq plans to do:

BAGHDAD -- A senior Iraqi Central Bank adviser says the government has adopted a two-pronged plan to restructure the national currency in order to facilitate large transactions and make government accounts more efficient, RFE/RL's Radio Free Iraq reports.

Mudhhir Muhammad Salih, a member of the bank's advisory panel, told RFE/RL on June 23 that in the short term, larger banknote denominations of the dinar would be issued to simplify major transactions.

He said that because so many Iraqis still dealt mainly in cash, it was cumbersome to carry bags full of money to pay for expensive items like cars. The inconvenience leads people making such purchases -- as well as many entrepreneurs -- to use dollars for those kinds of transactions instead of dinars, something the government wants to end.

He added that large denominations equivalent to around $100 would be issued to simplify major purchases, and new coins and lower denominations would be introduced for smaller transactions.

In the longer term, Saleh said a redenomination was needed wherein three zeros will be dropped so that the 25,000-dinar banknote -- currently the largest denomination -- becomes a 25-dinar note.

He said the change was inevitable, considering the economy is expecting high growth in the coming years with a planned increase in oil production to finance reconstruction projects.

Saleh said there were currently some 29 trillion dinars in circulation in Iraq, represented by some 6 trillion banknotes of various denominations, most of them quite small. He said this also caused complications for the Central Bank and government, as well as commercial accounting departments.

Saleh said the monetary-restructuring plan was drawn up with the help of foreign experts and financial institutions, including the International Monetary Fund, of which Iraq has been a member since 1945.

The plan will soon be presented to the cabinet, which is expected to subsequently send a bill to parliament.

Saleh noted that until 1980 the Iraqi dinar exchange rate was 1 dinar/$3.3 compared to $1/1,168 dinars now due to hyperinflation that occurred during the latter part of the late ousted leader Saddam Hussein's reign.

Edited November 10, 2011 by pudge

[notoriousb]

none of the lopsters ever addressed the point I made previously--

Iraq did say they were emulating the US currency structure...right? I'll have to find the articles but anyways,

I cant stop thinking about the 500, 1000, and $10,000 USD denoms that they used to have in circluation,

and continue to hold their worth to this day. why would it be any different in Iraq?

another thing lopsters don't seem to like to talk about much is the issuing of a new 100,000 dinar note which Saleh's mentioned that numerous times now. why would they do that if they were to lop 3 zeroes off the notes we hold?

Edited November 10, 2011 by notoriousb

[MrDinarman]

none of the lopsters ever addressed the point I made previously--

Iraq did say they were emulating the US currency structure...right? I'll have to find the articles but anyways,

I cant stop thinking about the 500, 1000, and $10,000 USD denoms that they used to have in circluation,

and continue to hold their worth to this day. why would it be any different in Iraq?

another thing lopsters don't seem to like to talk about much is the issuing of a new 100,000 dinar note which Saleh's mentioned that numerous times now. why would they do that if they were to lop 3 zeroes off the notes we hold?

Why would they do that if they were going to RV. Maybe they don't want to do anything.

[20MillionDinar]

Right but what about my first question?? Looks to me they can remove a lot of the money supply in about 10 days..

I think they could remove a significant amount of Dinar should they choose. Keep in mind folks, that because they are on a fixed exchange rate system they need to keep EXCESSIVE amounts of dinar available to use in their auctions to artifically "prop up" or "suppress" their value on a day to day basis.

Additionally, the stubbornness of a government in defending a fixed exchange rate when in a trade deficit will force it to use deflationary measures (increased taxation and reduced availability of money) which can lead to unemployment.

Due to the fact that they need to keep such a large amount of Dinar on Reserves to keep the exchange rate where it is at reduces the availability of money, this leads to unemployment. 1/4 of the country is unemployed at this time, so that means that 7.5 Million of their citizens don't have money in the first place.

Also, Smart Cards should be in full effect for ALL government expenditures as well as Welfare reducing the necessity for physical cash even more. If you think about it, 95% of the entire countries GDP is Oil so I would say that technically 95% of their physical currency could be withdrawn from circulation simply due to the fact of Smart Cards which is electronic.

Exactly and if U.S citizens are holding 2 to 3 Trillion Dinar then how in the world could the 1 to 1 RV take place that everyone keeps talking about? That would amount to 3 to 4 TRILLION dollars paid out to Americans alone but that does not seem to have any impression at all on anyone, some have even said the U.S. Government holding an additional 4 TRILLION (if such a thing were true) is a good thing! People do you have any idea how much a TRILLION dollars is?

You need to understand that if the value had a significant increase let's say to $.10 this would open the international community up to the Iraqi Dinar instantaneously! I would assume that if the IQD re-valued to $.10 then it would be an internationally recognized currency making it a tradeable currency on the FOREX market.

This would mean that other Major financial institutions, traders, and investors would now be buying/selling the IQD on the FOREX market.

MEANING - Iraq is not necessarily footing the bill, it is simply a transfer of wealth from us speculators who decide to cash out to some of the major financial institutions and investors deciding to invest into the IQD.

The FOREX is the largest market in the world with an average volume of $3-$4 trillion traded on a daily basis!

Hope this makes sense.

[20MillionDinar]

20million Dinar Said

"Major Investors, traders, financial institutions are not stupid. They have ways of analyzing a countries currency to determine its true value".

Well that's true. Which is the reason they haven't bought Dinar as an investment. I understand RVers believe it's a secret that these major traders just haven't found out about yet and aren't supposed to because it would ruin it for everybody on these internet sites who have fortunately found out about this overnight rags to riches investment thru 'secret intel'.

These Major investors, traders and financial institutions certainly have ways to determine a country's currency and if the Dinar were to 'float' on the Forex and other currency exchanges it's exchange rate would be even worse than it is now. I don't believe it would bring in major investment in the Dinar as 20milliondinar indicated. The reason these traders don't buy the Dinar is not because it's not traded on the currency markets. They don't buy it because it's worthless.

Keepmwlknfny says just the shear amount of dinar that's been bought by US citizens has or could be having a stabilizing affect on the Dinar and could be in the range of 2 to 3 trillion dinar. Well, it could be but just using the 3 trillion dinar figure would mean that represents around 3 billion Dollars. Even a .10 RV would mean a payout of Iraqi banks to Americans of 300 billion Dollars. Since they only have about 60Billion in foreign currency (25 billion in Dollars) where does the CBI get the rest and why would they want to? A .10 RV would not revalue the Dinar into more wealth it would devalue it lower and create more debt and reduce demand. I mean if nobody is buying it now (except for internet site buyers) at 1 cent for 11 Dinar, who is going to pay $1.11 for 11 Dinar?

As for the RD, 20milliondinar asks what is the purpose of one, what is to keep Iraq from inflating the currency or doing the same thing over again? Well nothing. that IS why they're doing it. So they can start over and do it again and for the convenience of creating a currency that can accomodate large bank transactions with large notes, smaller 100 notes and coins which ease purchasing for Iraqis.

Here's the article which I've posted before on what Iraq plans to do:

BAGHDAD -- A senior Iraqi Central Bank adviser says the government has adopted a two-pronged plan to restructure the national currency in order to facilitate large transactions and make government accounts more efficient, RFE/RL's Radio Free Iraq reports.

Mudhhir Muhammad Salih, a member of the bank's advisory panel, told RFE/RL on June 23 that in the short term, larger banknote denominations of the dinar would be issued to simplify major transactions.

He said that because so many Iraqis still dealt mainly in cash, it was cumbersome to carry bags full of money to pay for expensive items like cars. The inconvenience leads people making such purchases -- as well as many entrepreneurs -- to use dollars for those kinds of transactions instead of dinars, something the government wants to end.

He added that large denominations equivalent to around $100 would be issued to simplify major purchases, and new coins and lower denominations would be introduced for smaller transactions.

In the longer term, Saleh said a redenomination was needed wherein three zeros will be dropped so that the 25,000-dinar banknote -- currently the largest denomination -- becomes a 25-dinar note.

He said the change was inevitable, considering the economy is expecting high growth in the coming years with a planned increase in oil production to finance reconstruction projects.

Saleh said there were currently some 29 trillion dinars in circulation in Iraq, represented by some 6 trillion banknotes of various denominations, most of them quite small. He said this also caused complications for the Central Bank and government, as well as commercial accounting departments.

Saleh said the monetary-restructuring plan was drawn up with the help of foreign experts and financial institutions, including the International Monetary Fund, of which Iraq has been a member since 1945.

The plan will soon be presented to the cabinet, which is expected to subsequently send a bill to parliament.

Saleh noted that until 1980 the Iraqi dinar exchange rate was 1 dinar/$3.3 compared to $1/1,168 dinars now due to hyperinflation that occurred during the latter part of the late ousted leader Saddam Hussein's reign.

Pudge, a LOP is not the ONLY way they can get to where they need to be! I promise you that...

But if you want to take the easy way out and go with that route that is fine. It is actually very simple to understand and requires no research to learn about.

**This has always been a possibility and I understand EXACTLY how an RD works. I am not ruling it out. However, I personally feel they could have done this in the past but didn't! Why not? Maybe because they have other plans.

[20MillionDinar]

Smart cards do not change anything as far as currency in circulation, it is a serious mistake to think there is a difference between physical notes and digital money, physical or digital it makes no difference to the amount of Dinar in circulation and any reduction in money supply affects Digital money the same as physical money.

BTW, the auction is a foreign currency auction, Dinar is not a foreign currency in Iraq.

I understand that the Smart Cards is digital, however, it does allow them to drastically decrease the amount of physical currency in circulation. The CBI and GOI can destroy as many notes ad they want which WILL decrease their total money supply. It is their choice.

What exactly are you saying about the currency auction? You may want to do a little more research before getting into this one with me... Just a quick heads up.

Edited November 10, 2011 by 20MillionDinar

[MrDinarman]

Exactly and if U.S citizens are holding 2 to 3 Trillion Dinar then how in the world could the 1 to 1 RV take place that everyone keeps talking about? That would amount to 3 to 4 TRILLION dollars paid out to Americans alone but that does not seem to have any impression at all on anyone, some have even said the U.S. Government holding an additional 4 TRILLION (if such a thing were true) is a good thing! People do you have any idea how much a TRILLION dollars is?

People will make any excuse to fit their fantasy. It's probably not even done on purpose. Some people who are lied to so many times and lie to themselves end up believing these lies as fact. I suppose its part of human nature to only believe the positive and ignore the negative. That however, does not make it the truth. Hitler was responsible for the extermination of millions of people. Negative but true. Yet some even make excuses for that or ignore the facts all together.

What about the gurus who are predicting an $8-$11+ RV??!?! That's beyond absurd. That proves, to me that they are indisputable LIARS. Its either that or they are beyond the point of ignorance and apply absolutely no logic or common sense to this investment. Either one is dangerous.

Iraq can not and will not RV over .10 at this particular time. Simple arithmetic, historical evidence, research and common sense will lead to no other conclusion, period. I say let the dreamers dream. Eventually they will come around... unless they are brain dead or have ulterior motives .

Edited November 10, 2011 by MrDinarman

[zigmeister]

I think they could remove a significant amount of Dinar should they choose. Keep in mind folks, that because they are on a fixed exchange rate system they need to keep EXCESSIVE amounts of dinar available to use in their auctions to artifically "prop up" or "suppress" their value on a day to day basis.

Read more:

I did not consider the excess amounts of dinar was to hold up their fixed rate.