My worth on this investment.

[Scrumdiddles]

It does.....if they lop they would end up with 30 billion in circulation.....take 30 trillion and lop 3 zeros....what do you get?

The money supply of 30 trillion dinar is the problem.....I think your confusing it with the number of physical notes which is completely different.....but it would drop the number of physical notes a little.....

30 trillion and lop 3 zeros is: 30 billion.

Ok what you get is what Shabibi has been talking about reducing the amount of currency in circulation. Loping the zeros off of the bills is not going to reduce the amount of currency in the market. So no need to LOP.

[trooper]

He said that because so many Iraqis still dealt mainly in cash, it was cumbersome to carry bags full of money to pay for expensive items like cars. The inconvenience leads people making such purchases -- as well as many entrepreneurs -- to use dollars for those kinds of transactions instead of dinars, something the government wants to end.

He added that large denominations equivalent to around $100 would be issued to simplify major purchases, and new coins and lower denominations would be introduced for smaller transactions.

In the longer term, Saleh said a redenomination was needed wherein three zeros will be dropped so that the 25,000-dinar banknote -- currently the largest denomination -- becomes a 25-dinar note.

He said the change was inevitable, considering the economy is expecting high growth in the coming years with a planned increase in oil production to finance reconstruction projects.

Saleh said there were currently some 29 trillion dinars in circulation in Iraq, represented by some 6 trillion banknotes of various denominations, most of them quite small. He said this also caused complications for the Central Bank and government, as well as commercial accounting departments.

Saleh said the monetary-restructuring plan was drawn up with the help of foreign experts and financial institutions, including the International Monetary Fund, of which Iraq has been a member since 1945.

Read more:

[Scrumdiddles]

He said that because so many Iraqis still dealt mainly in cash, it was cumbersome to carry bags full of money to pay for expensive items like cars. The inconvenience leads people making such purchases -- as well as many entrepreneurs -- to use dollars for those kinds of transactions instead of dinars, something the government wants to end.

Yes and a lop will not help that. Shabibi said he wanted the dinar equal to the USD so if you lop it and revalue to 1 to 1 that will make the 25k note worth 25 which is not worth 100.

He added that large denominations equivalent to around $100 would be issued to simplify major purchases, and new coins and lower denominations would be introduced for smaller transactions.

If they RD the currency it will be during the 2 to 3 year period after lower denom are issued for exchange.

In the longer term, Saleh said a redenomination was needed wherein three zeros will be dropped so that the 25,000-dinar banknote -- currently the largest denomination -- becomes a 25-dinar note.

He said the change was inevitable, considering the economy is expecting high growth in the coming years with a planned increase in oil production to finance reconstruction projects.

Saleh said there were currently some 29 trillion dinars in circulation in Iraq, represented by some 6 trillion banknotes of various denominations, most of them quite small. He said this also caused complications for the Central Bank and government, as well as commercial accounting departments.

Saleh said the monetary-restructuring plan was drawn up with the help of foreign experts and financial institutions, including the International Monetary Fund, of which Iraq has been a member since 1945.

Read more:

[hame55]

RD can last a couple years...the discretion is up to the country....

It has come from Shabs mouth.....redenominating by deleting the zeros....its been quite clear....

http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/06/27/iraq-prepares-to-redenominate-its-currency/

Here is a paragraph taken from this article.....

Sanan Al Shebeibi [sinan Al-Shabibi], Governor of Iraq’s Central Bank, affirmed during the meeting of independent commissions on June 19 with Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki that the bank is preparing all requirements needed to replace the Iraqi Currency.

A RD does not devalue the dinar......the exchange rate will remain the same for the old currency until it is replaced by the new which would carry the new rate.....

There is no devalution....thats what has been spread around by the many "gurus" to push you away from the idea and to make it sound like it would never happen.....

I really have no idea bro....thats why I roam the forums looking for any indication.....

KEEP

You state there will be no devaluation....yet if their currency has fallen 1000X, and more, and it has, from its previous value ($3.22), then how will an LOP (neutral) and the of say 4X to get to $4 USD range, how does that restore the previous wealth that has been lost?

If I were an Iraqi with 100,000 Dinar and it LOPPed to 100 new Dinar, then RV 4x to the $4 USD range, I'd be pissed! That's a 4X improvement, not the 1000X loss I experienced during Saddam and war and sanctions. There would probably be civil war.

And Keep ---you cannot prove that there isn't two sets of books - one IMF statement for public consumption, and another with the true amount of dinar in circulation...................

[Scrumdiddles]

Shabibi has repeatedly siad a lot more than just reduce the money supply, more than once he has said clearly "delete the zeros" and even used Turkey as an example of how they plan to do it.

"Yes there inflation is not bad. So if a LOP would not reduce the money supply"

Sure it would reduce the money supply-by a lot!

You are right their inflation is not bad now but it was really bad until they brought it under control and that's where a lot of confusion about a RD (LOP) comes from, a lot of people are saying that since the inflation rate is low there's no need to LOP but a LOP is not used to control inflation. Historical a country does not RD during times of inflation but rather it is done AFTER coming out of a period of high inflation and the inflation is brought under control, the RD is then used to clean up the effects of the inflationary period and to reduce the over-issued (inflated) money supply. From a historical perspective based on past RDs from other countries Iraq is in the perfect position to RD.

"No reason to LOP other then to Cheat to gain advantage in the currency market."

They are not trying to "cheat" anyone, they are simply cleaning up the effects of their over inflated currency and RDing does not reduce the net worth of the notes you hold, if what you hold now is worth $1000 then it will still be worth $1000 after a LOP. We may not like how they do it but they are perfectly within their rights to RD their currency if they see fit to do so and it is not "Cheating".

Articles referred to Turkey as an example of how Iraq will Lop. Yes he has used many things to explain the conundrum of what he will do.

You can RD a currency without lopping it. Been done before.

Ok Cheating, just because it is legal to LOP does not mean it is not cheating. Your country failed to control inflation so your money decreased in value on exchange. You are losing the game now, right. Now you have higher denom currency because you failed to control inflation in your country. So you lop your currency to gain the advantage in the exchange again. if it were not cheating you would fight the fight to regain the previous value of your currency honorably right, not take the easy way out by lopping your currency. No matter what you say it is cheating. you are not honorable in your action nor are you accepting your responsibility to recreate what you have lost, so you cheat and take the easy way out.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Scrumdiddles

[tampa1000]

Not bashing, but you could read up a little more on redenominations and what happens.....it would clear up alot of your points.....

Please remember one thing and this will help you with the RD problem you are always talking about! Iraq or any other country for that matter would never ever say they are gonna RV if that was the plan, when the RD articles come up please don't believe everything you read, America has a problem thinking everything they see in black and white is true and its NOT! Stay positive and let this thing RV and stop making up reasons for them to RD, RD was never the plan....I have no links just using common sense....Go RV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trooper]

It will be a dollar to a dinar after they RD it...you will have 25 dollars to 25 dinars.. Or it will RV at .001 and your 25,000 dinar will be 25 dollars until they have all the 3 zero bill out of the market.. Its projected now the average income is 4,500 now till 2016 projection that the average Iraqi will 9.000 us dollar a year.. posted in another forum.. So your telling me that they will only be allowed 1 10,000 dinar a year at a dollar revalue..

It will be a dollar to a dinar after they RD it...you will have 25 dollars to 25 dinars.. Or it will RV at .001 and your 25,000 dinar will be 25 dollars until they have all the 3 zero bill out of the market.. Its projected now the average income is 4,500 now till 2016 projection that the average Iraqi will 9.000 us dollar a year.. posted in another forum.. So your telling me that they will only be allowed 1 10,000 dinar a year at a dollar revalue..

http://www.nakhelnew...ws.php?nid=6122

Edited November 8, 2011 by trooper

[winterset]

I don't understand the LOP theory when everyone in Iraq is using US dollars. They would need to value the dinar equal to the dollar if not higher to get the people to stop using the dollar. Maybe I don't want to understand the LOP because it ruins my plans!

[Scrumdiddles]

First of all a "LOP" and a RD are exactly the same thing, the term LOP is nothing but internet slang for RD.

Iraq is in no way "Cheating" anyone by RDing their currency because it does not take away it's value it only reduces the number of Dinars in circulation but not the physical notes which retain the same net value. You are feeling cheated because a LOP does not allow you to make unrealistically huge returns on your investment but this "investment" is pure speculation and Iraq never even promised you it would even hold it's value never mind increase in value so how can you be "Cheated" just because it don't go the way you want it to, do you not understand what a speculative investment is? If Iraq RDs it's currency it perfectly within it's rights to do so and to say they are cheating because they want to reduce their money supply and clean up the effects of their inflationary period is simply ridiculous. If Iraq had promised that if you bought their currency they would buy it back at a profit to you and then reneged on that promise then that would be cheating but they never even asked you to buy it in the first place never mind promising you a thousand times more than you paid for it! The only people who made you promises of any returns at all were the pumpers so if this RDs and you feel cheated you need to complain to them!

See you are stuck on something that was never mentioned. It is not about the return on the investment. I don't know where you got that from all that has been talked about in this trend. I never said anything about receiving 1000x return on this investment. What if they RV there currency at 200 IQD to 1 USD? or .01 IQD to 1 USD? or even 800 IQD to 1 USD? Seems like all the LOP people want to throw Guru stuff in everyones face saying, you dont believe my way then Guru is the reason for that, right?

I am referring to exchange rate cheating. Would you not agree that if you do not take the same avenue as did when inflation created the higher denom would be cheating? Lopping the currency is cheating your way back to the top again, instead of taking the honorable avenue of battling inflation and RVing your currency back to its former value.

Yes speculating is what we are doing here right, you speculate LOP, i speculate no LOP, right? Same to you, this investment does not go as you would like to see, a lop. There is no proof of what is going to happen, there is no truth that is not cluttered by smoke, so all the facts are on the moon, right? What is left is speculating, which is what we all are doing here.

Lopping is not the same as RD. Many countries have RD without taking 000 off there bills (countries listed in previous post in this trend). So it is not the same.

[Scrumdiddles]

They re-denominate but the notes stay the same denomination????

Please explain this you are making even less sense now.

RD is issuing lower denom which run along side with higher denoms right. Equal to the actual numbers on each bills. 25k = 25k

LOP make the Higher denoms valued lower. 25k = 25

[trooper]

RD is issuing lower denom which run along side with higher denoms right. Equal to the actual numbers on each bills. 25k = 25k

LOP make the Higher denoms valued lower. 25k = 25

So a 25 dinar is worth the same as a 25,000 dinar... 25,000 dollars US at a Dollar RV...SWEET!!!

[keepmwlknfny]

KEEP

You state there will be no devaluation....yet if their currency has fallen 1000X, and more, and it has, from its previous value ($3.22), then how will an LOP (neutral) and the of say 4X to get to $4 USD range, how does that restore the previous wealth that has been lost?

Its a work in progress.....it will take some time just like it took time for the dinar to plummet....I mean we are talking over a ten year period or so!! Its been a decade!! They will return the wealth to the people....this whole plan being put together to pay the Iraqis money off the oil revenues sure is a start!! Things like this take time....

If I were an Iraqi with 100,000 Dinar and it LOPPed to 100 new Dinar, then RV 4x to the $4 USD range, I'd be pissed! That's a 4X improvement, not the 1000X loss I experienced during Saddam and war and sanctions. There would probably be civil war.

Civil war for having more purchasing power then what they have now?? I highly doubt that bud.....anything is better then what they have now!! Even though they would have to exchange their 100k for a new 100 note, that new note will carry a higher buying power....yea prices are adjusted accordingly but that new 100 note would now be able to purchase what that 100k note used to....

And Keep ---you cannot prove that there isn't two sets of books - one IMF statement for public consumption, and another with the true amount of dinar in circulation...................

Definately never said thats impossible but just unlikely.....there is no evidence to show that the books we see are considerably off either.....

[easyrider]

Something that seems to be totally overlooked when talking about past rates for the Dinar, such as the $3.22 mentioned in that last post, is how many Dinar were in circulation then vs the trillions in circulation now! The general thought seems to be that since the Dinar was at $3.22 then it will simply be a reinstatement and no wealth is to be gained, it will just rise back to what it was but that $3.22 was not for 30 TRILLION Dinar!

Besides it was a phony rate set by Saddam anyway.

yes but way back when it was alot more than 3.22 and that was no phony prior saddam era

Edited November 9, 2011 by easyrider

[few24u]

First of all a "LOP" and a RD are exactly the same thing, the term LOP is nothing but internet slang for RD.

Iraq is in no way "Cheating" anyone by RDing their currency because it does not take away it's value it only reduces the number of Dinars in circulation but not the physical notes which retain the same net value. You are feeling cheated because a LOP does not allow you to make unrealistically huge returns on your investment but this "investment" is pure speculation and Iraq never even promised you it would even hold it's value never mind increase in value so how can you be "Cheated" just because it don't go the way you want it to, do you not understand what a speculative investment is? If Iraq RDs it's currency it perfectly within it's rights to do so and to say they are cheating because they want to reduce their money supply and clean up the effects of their inflationary period is simply ridiculous. If Iraq had promised that if you bought their currency they would buy it back at a profit to you and then reneged on that promise then that would be cheating but they never even asked you to buy it in the first place never mind promising you a thousand times more than you paid for it! The only people who made you promises of any returns at all were the pumpers so if this RDs and you feel cheated you need to complain to them!

How many cheats do we see? I read 6! Someone better feel cheated!!

[pudge]

A lot of confusion here. One thing I don't believe was mentioned is that when an RD or LOP (same thing) occurs all prices for goods and services in a nations economy are adjusted accordingly. Nobody in or outside Iraq is cheated (except for RVers expecting millions of $). Yes, the total aggregate money supply is reduced but so is the rest of the economy. The exchange rates remain exactly the same. The only reason Iraq or any other country would do this is simply for convience sake, (as the CBI has repeatedly stated) and basically to give the economy room to inflate all over again. But again this has nothing to do with the exchange rate to the US$.

One poster indicated he believed a revaluation would increase the value of the DInar. It's the opposite, it would make the Dinar, even at a .10 exchange rate, 100 times more worthless and cause hyper-inflation. It would also empty its foreign currency coffers (currently at around 58 billion), which the CBI says it would like to increse by 50% (Dollars, Euros and Pounds). Why would they do this?

But even if Iraq did declare a 1D to .10 exchange; how does that help any Dinar investors here? No bank in America is going to be forced to exchange at that rate and why would they want to. Do you really think any finaincial institution or currency trader anywhere in the world is going to say "Hell yes, give us your Dinar!!! It's worth a hundred times more now!!!". And why? Because Iraq says it is. NO, whoever has any Dinar would be dumping it if they could. Especially for a 100 times over return; just as the people selling and pumping the Dinar now are. So if these folks don't exhange it is everyone really going to fly to Iraq and exchange their Dinar into Dollars. What if the CBI said "no, you're foreigners, we want your dollars, not our Dinars."

I've posted this before. How an RD has worked in every coutry who's done it.

A redenomination (RD) simply means taking the zeroes out of the economy. Three things are done:-

1. All old banknotes are swapped for new lower denom ones at a fixed ratio (usually 1,000 for ease of exchange) within a fixed time-frame (3 months for prior Iraq banknote swaps). Eg, 25,000 Dinar notes are swapped for 25 Dinars. Iraqi's will change their old for new notes at their banks. The below article explains what happened during Iraq's prior bank-note swap when the "Swiss Dinar" was taken out of circulation in the Kurdish region for good during 2003 and Saddam's face removed from notes. When the time-limit is up, any old notes not exchanged for new are demonetized and become worthless.

It also states in the final two questions : "Q:Can dollars also be exchanged for new Iraqi dinars What will be the conversion rate for dollars?

A:Dollars will not be converted directly into new dinars during the official exchange. Following the exchange, dollars will be convertible directly into new dinars at the market exchange rate" and "Q:Will it be possible to exchange currency outside of Iraq? A:No. The only official currency exchange locations will be located within Iraq":-

http://www.exchangerate.com/iraq_currency_exchange.html

2. The currency is adjusted by the same factor for the *new notes only*. Eg, a 1170 vs the $ becomes 1.170 vs the $. You won't be paid $1m for handing in $1k worth of old notes, you'll just be given the equivalent in new notes (1k Dinars at 1.17 in place of 1m Dinars at 1170). This is what confuses many amateur Dinar speculators the most.

3. Prices in Dinars are also adjusted by the same factor. Eg, a 75m Dinar house becomes a 75k Dinar house. A 1,000 Dinar loaf of bread becomes 1 Dinar. 250,000 Dinar average rent becomes 250 Dinar rent, etc.

This doesn't have to be in multiples of exactly 1,000, it could be anything. But the PP (Purchasing Power) of *current* notes doesn't change the same way some "pumpers" are hyping it. The Iraqi Central Bank have openly stated the Dinar RD will be "based on Turkey". For those who don't remember Turkey's RD / lop, here's the official brochure explaining it:-

http://www.tcmb.gov.tr/ytlkampanya/bro.php

People weren't given $1m in cash just for holding $1 worth of Old Turkish Lira during their 6-zero RD/lop. And likewise, people won't be given $1m in cash just for holding $1,000 worth of Iraqi Dinar during their 3-digit RD/lop. The Dinar may appreciate in time when their oil exports increase in time and demand for Dinar rises, but not by silly 10,000% figures purported by some dishonest Dinar salesmen preying on FX first-timers. Hope this helps.

[Flyers1]

Hope everyone is listening.

[Anti This Anti That]

When they state deleting the Zero's, removing the Zero's, they mean taking those large bills out of circulation. They will not give you 25 dinar for 25,000 dinars, or 10 dinar for 10,000 dinar, or 5 dinar for 5,000 dinars. If they did happen to do a redomination first, then RV, you will get 1000 25 dinar notes for the 25,000, etc, etc. JMO

[trooper]

When they state deleting the Zero's, removing the Zero's, they mean taking those large bills out of circulation. They will not give you 25 dinar for 25,000 dinars, or 10 dinar for 10,000 dinar, or 5 dinar for 5,000 dinars. If they did happen to do a redomination first, then RV, you will get 1000 25 dinar notes for the 25,000, etc, etc. JMO

I was thinking the same thing... What about the 3 zero's on the 1,000 dinar

From what i remember is that they want the same as us... 1, 5, 10,25, 100... Just looking for input.. Thank you

Edited November 9, 2011 by trooper

[Anti This Anti That]

I was thinking the same thing... What about the 3 zero's on the 1,000 dinar

From what i remember is that they want the same as us... 1, 5, 10,25, 100... Just looking for input.. Thank you

I been told by people that were there involved in changing the old Saddam note out, that they got equal dinar value for the old ones. If they had a 500 Saddam note, they got a NID 500 note etc. To give somebody a 25 dinar note for a 25,000 would be cheating them. There are a lot of confused individuals relating to the Redomination (Lop).

[pudge]

No they would not be cheating them since it will happen to everyone and all prices adjust accordingly. Whether it's lopping zeroes or removing smaller notes to rid the economy of to much paper money (not aggregate total) or creating more 100 notes for ease of purchasing in Iraq that's what it is all for, convenience and the possibility of real economic growth in Iraq which may lead to the strengthening of the Dinar against the Dollar

[keepmwlknfny]

When they state deleting the Zero's, removing the Zero's, they mean taking those large bills out of circulation. They will not give you 25 dinar for 25,000 dinars, or 10 dinar for 10,000 dinar, or 5 dinar for 5,000 dinars. If they did happen to do a redomination first, then RV, you will get 1000 25 dinar notes for the 25,000, etc, etc. JMO

Well unfortunately thats exactly what Shabs IS NOT saying.....their plan is to exchange your 25k note for one single new 25 note with a higher value.....

Maybe you should tell shabs your idea of a RD cause apparently he has it all wrong....along with the many other countries that have followed the same path.....

[MrDinarman]

Well unfortunately thats exactly what Shabs IS NOT saying.....their plan is to exchange your 25k note for one single new 25 note with a higher value.....

Maybe you should tell shabs your idea of a RD cause apparently he has it all wrong....along with the many other countries that have followed the same path.....

Unfortunately hardly anyone listens to actual facts, logic, reason, common sense and historical evidence. People are trying to predict and unprecedented event and skewing any information they get to fit their twisted fantasy of becoming an (overnight) millionaire. History tends to repeat itself so people should probably start there.

[Scrumdiddles]

Honorable???

Being honorable has nothing to do with it, the problem is what to do with thirty TRILLION Dinar, any RV without a RD first is going to have to be really small because they simply can't RV into the TRILLIONS of dollars. They can RV a small amount straight up or RD first and reach a parity with the dollar without having to buy back all those trillions of Dinar, you don't get rich either way. Sorry if you feel cheated because you listened to the pumpers and now find you might not get wealthy from this but Iraq RDing their currency, if they do, is a sensible (but certainly not their only) option for dealing with their excessively inflated money supply and it's not cheating anyone.

Follow me.

Iraqi citizen 1 gets paid 1 day before RV, received 10,000 Dinar for his work.

Iraqi Citizen 1 take 2 days off after getting paid.

Iraqi Citizen 2 gets paid 1 day after RV, he receives 10,000 of the new currency.

Iraq LOPS there old bills the IQD and issues new currency without the zeros.

So you are telling me the Iraqi citizen 1 now has 10 dinars (minus 000) and the Iraqi citizen 2 has 10,000 of the new currency. Bullsh**. Iraqi citizen will go blow up a building, because that is what they do when p*ssed.

LOP WILL NOT HAPPEN LOPSTERS. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY.

Iraqi citizen 1 is getting screwed. Or as i have called it before CHEATED. Both Iraqi citizens got paid 10,000 dinar for there work, because Iraqi citizen 1 got paid before the so call LOP he now after the LOP only has 10 dinar. He got CHEATED. So yes a lop is CHEATING.

Read more:

[keepmwlknfny]

Follow me.

Iraqi citizen 1 gets paid 1 day before RV, received 10,000 Dinar for his work.

Iraqi Citizen 1 take 2 days off after getting paid.

Iraqi Citizen 2 gets paid 1 day after RV, he receives 10,000 of the new currency.

Iraq LOPS there old bills the IQD and issues new currency without the zeros.

So you are telling me the Iraqi citizen 1 now has 10 dinars (minus 000) and the Iraqi citizen 2 has 10,000 of the new currency. Bullsh**. Iraqi citizen will go blow up a building, because that is what they do when p*ssed.

LOP WILL NOT HAPPEN LOPSTERS. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY.

Iraqi citizen 1 is getting screwed. Or as i have called it before CHEATED. Both Iraqi citizens got paid 10,000 dinar for there work, because Iraqi citizen 1 got paid before the so call LOP he now after the LOP only has 10 dinar. He got CHEATED. So yes a lop is CHEATING.

Read more:

Nothing you just said made any sense......your basically saying they won't. RV then lop, which is true cause that wouldn't happen but then your saying this is why a lop won't happen but RVs don't come before lops....not on this type of scale......currency lops first, then it RVS.....you really should study more on RD, you can usually hold a better stance on a subject when you truly understand it

[Scrumdiddles]

Nothing you just said made any sense......your basically saying they won't. RV then lop, which is true cause that wouldn't happen but then your saying this is why a lop won't happen but RVs don't come before lops....not on this type of scale......currency lops first, then it RVS.....you really should study more on RD, you can usually hold a better stance on a subject when you truly understand it

A LOP does not exist. Trying to make sense of a LOP is really stupid. How can i explain a made up LOP when it doesn't exist? Further more how can you even relate a LOP to a currency investment? The word LOP was made up by Al Warka to promote electronic dinars.

http://breitlingcurrency.blogspot.com/2011/11/breitlings-morning-review-1192011.html

The dinar will RV then RD then they will dedollarize. This is what CBI and Shabibi has explained. LOP was not mentioned. No matter how you link what you see as a LOP, it is not correctly examined.

A LOP does not exist. Trying to make sense of a LOP is really stupid. How can i explain a made up LOP when it doesn't exist? Further more how can you even relate a LOP to a currency investment? The word LOP was made up by Al Warka to promote electronic dinars.

http://breitlingcurrency.blogspot.com/2011/11/breitlings-morning-review-1192011.html

The dinar will RV then RD then they will dedollarize. This is what CBI and Shabibi has explained. LOP was not mentioned. No matter how you link what you see as a LOP, it is not correctly examined.

Oh and if you are remotely in any way trying to relate this Iraqi Dinar investment to any other country you will be lead astray in your research. Economic conditions are way different in Iraq than other countries that you say so called LOPPED there currency.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Scrumdiddles