Atheists are Most Hated and Distrusted Minority

[bamagirl]

Bama, I don't fully agree with that statement. God is seen in everywhere and the more you dive into philosophy and science, the more proof there is. There is more proof from science to support Jesus than any other religion. If anyone does not believe me, read that book I referred to.

Science and books can support Jesus was a real man that lived but it's where faith comes in that Jesus was the divine son of God. And I do personally see God in everything but thats because I believe in Him, keep in mind not everyone does.

[tumdrum]

Yes, there is a lot of material that refers to Jesus being a man. But there is a lot of material that takes it further. Much of the material that goes beyond the norm is usually buried and has to be searched for. I would now encourage you to read that book. It will show you on a more scientific level how awesome god is. Actually, pick up the book unshakeable foundations. That's for the Christian. Now about seeing god in everything, I do agree that once you accept Christ its amplified on how much you see god.. what we see has been covered up. Take astrology for example. God used the stars to tell a story to all mankind until someone came and twisted it to tell abouthow we are connected to the stars and it tells our personality crap people spew. It was covered from its original purpose. My phone is acting up. Crap. Brb.lified how much you see god. But a lot of

[tumdrum]

Ok I'm back. Now faith is a factor but you hVe to realize there is proof as well. Just like there might be proof that you exist right now doesn't mean that I know you personally. That's where faith comes in. Faith starts the relationship. nd relationship is what it really is about, not acknowledgments of whether or not some one exists. Dean mentioned he wanted proof of gods existence. And there is scientific proof. As I said before, if you don't believe me, go read that book. All Christians should read unshakeable foundations in my opinion. Bama I do understand that people have blinders on but a lot of those blinders are self made.

[bamagirl]

Thanks tumdrum, I'll definetely look for that book! (and when I'm done I'll pass it on to you if you'd like Dean)

[Heavyduty053]

To start with ... Tiff does NOT just "drop the bomb" and then leave the building. She sticks around and reads comments and finds it interesting what people have to say about whatever it is she has posted.

Next ... for those who think it is wrong for an athiest to try to make someone else believe what they believe, that is exactly what proselytizing Christians are doing, right here, on this site, daily, hourly, ad nauseum. Why are they not finding a religious discussion site? Because it is so much fun preaching to the unchurched and hoping for redemption by bringing ignorant non-believers to the fold. I guess.

And about other countries being so Godless they are peopled in great number by athiests ... well, if you will think on your American history, it was a migration FROM those countries to your shores to escape religious persecution, and establish freedom of worship that started the good ole US of A. I wonder where that freedom went when someone cannot post a question about religion that does not suit the Allmighty Christian Brotherhood without being cast in the unenviable position of the devil's advocate, quite literally.

I have said before, and say again, this is NOT the place for ANY religious discussion. Want a prayer meeting? a bible study? a discussion of biblical consequence? ... find or start your own religious discussion forum. This is a forum for discussion of the DINAR ... remember? That investment that is supposedly why we are all here?

I come to check in on Tiff's postings because she is always throwing something out there that will stir things up, make people think. So far her religious postings have posited questions that have not made people think so much as made them react, usually violently, with acrimony and venom and they call themselves Christians.

My own beliefs are mine, and private, and not open for discussion, so I won't air them here. What has me upset is the way most of you seem to be treating the viability of the questions posed. It is like the Christian ethic goes into overdrive and all "heaven" breaks loose.

smee2

I have to weigh in on your reply, several things i want to remind you of, Adam Montana said anything goes on this site as long as its respectable which means the subject of christianity so you are wrong on your assumption. Christians are professing their faith and witnessing to all who have ears let him hear and that's what we are supposed to be doing. Athiests have as much right to spread their beliefs by free will of choice. We all have this right and it is up to anyone to hear or turn away. you have just represented the way you feel about anyone who posts christian messages as well as what you just condemned christians for doing. Each time someone reads or hears a christian message, that is one more time they will have to answer for. Now the true Athiests shouldn't be concerned with this if they truly believe that there is no lord Jesus.. But maybe at some point in their lives they will come to find him. We or at least me, i'm am not here to offend only to say that God loves all and is able to forgive all.......Heavyduty053

Edited November 8, 2011 by Heavyduty053

[bamagirl]

i just love ya Heavy!!! Haven't seen your posts much lately!

[tumdrum]

Hey Bama +++++1 from me. A lot of people I refer materials to never get them. The few that do thank me for them. Just commenting tells me your not ignorant and open. That's great and I'm happy you are in search of truth. A great and powerful place to be. Good luck and god bless you.

[14Mil]

Dean H, thank you for taking the time to post your questions and comments. I did not see any malice in your responses, merely asking for clarifications and providing your own analysis.

Bamagirl, I very much respect your beliefs and comments. But, and this is a BIG But, the comment you said in one of your postings about Tiffany trying to sway those sitting on the fence has bothered me. As one of those fence sitters, I wanted to let you know WHY it is important that we hear from all sides.

You see in my "real job" I’m an Acquisition Manager that has to make some very important decision on weapon systems. I can't possibly dive into every little technical concern or policy to figure out what is the best way forward. Therefore, I have to depend on smart, loyal employees that are willing to give it to me right between the eyes. Good News, Bad News, options, risk and recommendations. Those in the military or Vets, know this is standard protocol. If you want to make it to the next rank, the best strategy is by being truthful and by submitting valid options and recommendations to your chain of command/coworkers.

So when I see people like Dean, Smee or Tiffany provide me with details/questions that I haven't thought about before or wasn't aware of, then it makes me question what I thought I already knew. Which then leads me to want to learn more about what they have to say.

I totally understand those of you who are comfortable with your beliefs but some of us are still trying to figure it all out. And we need all the insight, no matter who or what you believe in, to get us where we want to go...which is the Truth, at least for us.

[bald1]

bald1

First, atheists have little or no interest in pressing their doubt. They simply choose not to accept the dogma that is pressed upon them as part of 'The Great Commission' and believe as others would have them believe.

Second, yes, lots of things are still in the 'theory' stage because they cannot yet be proven. The difference in what most people call a theory and the scientific definition of a theory is enormous, however. A theory to most people is just someone's idea of how things work. A theory as defined by science is a concept that is backed up by all of the known facts and that can accurately predict the results of experiments based on that concept. The existence of atoms is, by this definition, a theory because no means or method exists to actually view an atom. Einstein's theory of relativity is the same way. We are not able to move at the speed of light to determine if time does indeed stop. Each of these theories has been backed up by numerous experiments and tests and both have stood the test of time. Your theory is that God created the universe and is watching over each and every thing each and every one of us do to find out if we followed all of his rules. I have yet to see any experiment designed to test that theory and any objective evidence to back it up. Please enlighten me about the 'science' that you have to prove your theory beyond any doubt and eliminates all other explanations?

The First Law of Thermodynamics states that in a closed system, the amount of energy present in that system is constant, though it transforms into other forms of energy, as in the case of the above compressor. So, if the Universe as a whole initially contained no mass/matter/energy (energy input is equal to zero), and then it spontaneously generated all of the mass/matter/energy in the Universe (energy output is unequal to zero), the First Law would be violated. Applying the earlier example of the compressor, this circumstance would be equivalent to saying that the sum total heat loss and compressor work is greater than the electrical input—which is impossible. Without intervention from an outside force, the amount of mass/matter/energy in the Universe would have remained constant (unchanged) at zero. As was mentioned earlier, there are no exceptions to laws, or else they would not be laws. The First Law of Thermodynamics has no known exceptions. As previously explained, the Law is accepted as fact by all scientists in general and utilized by engineers in particular. Therefore, the Universe, composed of all mass/matter/energy, could not have spontaneously generated (popped into existence on its own) without violating the exceptionless and highly respected First Law of Thermodynamics. The energy level of the Universe would not have been constant. Spontaneous generation would be the equivalent of a zero energy input to a system and a non-zero output. The Universe could not have come into existence without the presence and intervention of a Force outside of the closed system of the entire physical Universe. The Universe therefore must be an opensystem that was created by a non-physical force (not composed of mass/matter/energy)outside of the physical boundary of this Universe (above nature, or supernatural) with the capability of bringing it into existence out of nothing. That Force can be none other than the supernatural God of the Bible. Scientifically speaking, the Universe could not and did not spontaneously generate

Edited November 8, 2011 by bald1

[FlyHi]

14Mil it appears you have invested well in IQD....my question to you....is it a fully informed investment decision with a CERTAIN expectation or is it more of 'I have to be in it to win it as the investment in IQD is plausible but not proveable' . No doubt you have entered with what you can afford to lose but somehow can't afford to miss out if/when this comes good?

In similar light, Bama, 4profit and others have professed 'faith' that they believe with certainty. It is not a case of hedging your bets for them....but hey what harm is there to confess sin and say the prayer of commitment...you have nothing to lose either ...right 14Mil....and then again, just maybe the lights may come on at a personal level that is hard to descibe in words.

I believe we are essentially spirit beings and also strongly believe in the power of the spoken word...it goes out and accomplishes our wishes. This is why it behoves us to be positive and not say negative stuff. Thus we reap what we sow. If you speak doubt....you will be confined to fence sitting. live life a little and take the challenge/experiment that's been posted in earlier parts of this thread...afterall what have you really got to lose and maybe, just maybe you will find what your heart yearns for and has not found to date. Have a great day and be blessed.

[tumdrum]

Lol you took the words right out of my mouth

[Dean_H]

The First Law of Thermodynamics states that in a closed system, the amount of energy present in that system is constant, though it transforms into other forms of energy, as in the case of the above compressor. So, if the Universe as a whole initially contained no mass/matter/energy (energy input is equal to zero), and then it spontaneously generated all of the mass/matter/energy in the Universe (energy output is unequal to zero), the First Law would be violated. Applying the earlier example of the compressor, this circumstance would be equivalent to saying that the sum total heat loss and compressor work is greater than the electrical input—which is impossible. Without intervention from an outside force, the amount of mass/matter/energy in the Universe would have remained constant (unchanged) at zero. As was mentioned earlier, there are no exceptions to laws, or else they would not be laws. The First Law of Thermodynamics has no known exceptions. As previously explained, the Law is accepted as fact by all scientists in general and utilized by engineers in particular. Therefore, the Universe, composed of all mass/matter/energy, could not have spontaneously generated (popped into existence on its own) without violating the exceptionless and highly respected First Law of Thermodynamics. The energy level of the Universe would not have been constant. Spontaneous generation would be the equivalent of a zero energy input to a system and a non-zero output. The Universe could not have come into existence without the presence and intervention of a Force outside of the closed system of the entire physical Universe. The Universe therefore must be an opensystem that was created by a non-physical force (not composed of mass/matter/energy)outside of the physical boundary of this Universe (above nature, or supernatural) with the capability of bringing it into existence out of nothing. That Force can be none other than the supernatural God of the Bible. Scientifically speaking, the Universe could not and did not spontaneously generate[/font]

I'm afraid there are numerous theories competing with yours and they are all currently undergoing testing and revision as new data is uncovered. You have stated your thesis as fact but have not supported it with any information.

[dhardage]

I can do that.

The standard is not whether or not we sin. We all sin. What kind of sin is irrelevant. The point is that our relationship with our Creator is broken because of what we are. Born into a state of separation from God, because of Adam's choice. That is why we "sin" in the first place. Then there are all kinds of human factors: sins committed upon us that shape us, sins against others, sins against God, etc. ad nauseum. These differences are largely irrelevant to the basic state of mankind.

Christ came to live and die so that everyone could be restored to relationship with God. It matters not when or how we accept what He did and accept restored relationship. It matters only that we do, while we still have the choice.

I'm so glad that I don't have to decide who makes it and who doesn't. I do believe that there are lots of "Christians" who aren't going to make it. I also believe that there are lots of people who have never heard of Christ will be in heaven. (Lots of Christians are really gonna disagree with that...) But those who hear and reject don't have a snowball's chance in h***.

why will a lot of Chrstians not make it?

I have a dare for you. No one but you and God will ever know the outcome.

I dare you to shoot up a prayer. Ask God to make you willing for Him to show you who He is. Ask every day. More than once a day. Once you become willing, ask Him to reveal himself to you.

The stories that come out of this dare are one of two things, in my experience: either the recipient of the dare refuses to play, or things change. A lot. Miracles happen, and people are changed. They come to see Him, then they come to know Him. It's amazing.

If you can't do your homework and think that web MD and google answers all questions, then I can't help you there.

We are, at the core, reorganized carbon. A mineral. That's a basic fact. Our bodies are not made up of things that exist outside of the basic Periodic Chart of Elements. Now our souls...that's altogether another matter, no pun intended.

You trust WebMD to explain your appendix. I happen to believe they are wrong.

There is not really any room for discussion. I see Intelligent Design. You don't. We disagree. I can live with that.

My appendix nearly killed me..........they took it out.......all better. IF I understand, you think Webmd is wrong about its purpose? I never understood its purpose. Please explain.

And a dare?? Really??

Read more:

God never made anything that was of no use. Just because we don't know

that use at this time doesn't mean it's of no use. You're statement proceeds from

a false pretext. The assumption that after this life is over there is nothing left. That is

a great way to make the argument in life for doing what ever you feel like doing as you

have no consequent's for any of your actions.

I disagree. I think there are enough consequences on this earth to "keep many good people honest" Just because you do not believe (or are confused) does NOT mean that you are not a good person at heart and want to do the right thing!

To make the mistake of thinking that we, as a race of

human beings even begin to understand all that the universe has to offer, is presumptuous arrogance.

And before you attack the faith issue I would ask you to please read these two other post.

I saw no attack

My dare stands. You reject it.

A qualification wasn't that you agree that He could do it and that your request wouldn't be violating your free will. Your request would be giving permission for Him to do it for you. You are unwilling. That is why that's where we start.

I still dare you, just exactly as I explained. All the arguments in the world are faulted, when you won't just take the dare. I dare the Christians, too. What happens in this process defies understanding.

Amazing how when they are cornered they leave.

I still dare you. If you still won't take the dare, then ask yourself "why not?" Really. It's at the heart of the matter. Keep asking yourself "why not?" until you get to some real substance about who you are.

perhaps because dares stopped (at least for me) being popular in JHS? And honestly, I did not see anyone "cornered"

That's the problem broke, a lot of people don't aNy answers they want justificationfor what they already think. It's being ignorant. I mean he can be seen in the stars. Christians will get that one.

*sigh* I was hoping to learn something, but apparently not. Calling someone ignorant because their beliefs are not the same as your is well.......ummmmmmmmmmmm ignorant IMO.

If this, plus childish "dares" is what comes from believing...........I'll have to take my chances. Thanks any way.

Robin

[bamagirl]

Robin, please don't quit searching just because of a few individuals...

[dhardage]

I don't understand, bama. Why do people think that their belief gives them the right to be mean and spiteful? Is it because they KNOW they will go to heaven, so who cares how we treat eachother while we are here?

[Markinsa]

I'm so sorry I missed this last night. I was busy trying to respond to Dean and stay awake at the same time, it got by me!

Thanks for the clarification! I really thought there was something wrong with me! ummmmmmmm ok, maybe there is, but not about THAT!

Definately!

I do have a question though............for all that say the RV is in God's hands. Will you blame Him if things don't happen the way we wish them to?

Honestly? No, everything he has done in my life is been for my good. How can I blame the one that forgave me and washed me clean? Never!

Dean, you're next.

-

[DinarBot]

You know there is no way to give you the 'hard' proof you want, thats where the faith part comes in. You are significant to us, just be ready we will be praying for you and God will manifest Hisself to you!!!

"God will manifest Hisself to you!!!"

Herself. Himself.

From DinarBot Friendly Archive:

God is spirit. Spirit has no gender. The only use gender has it to procreate, and since spirit isn't going around having babies, there is no gender. Use whatever pronoun you want. Even the bible says God created us in his image -my image is female, therefore God's image to me is female.

Go Humans. DinarBot Machine. Lucky You.

Edited November 9, 2011 by DinarBot

[precious1]

"God will manifest Hisself to you!!!"

Herself. Himself.

DinarBot Friendly Archive:

God is spirit. Spirit has no gender. The only use gender has it to procreate, and since spirit isn't going around having babies, there is no gender. Use whatever pronoun you want. Even the bible says God created us in his image -my image is female, therefore God's image to me is female.

Go Humans. DinarBot Machine. Lucky You.

silly me, I thought of you as genderless~ you have that robotic response down goooood!

[DinarBot]

silly me, I thought of you as genderless~ you have that robotic response down goooood!

From saved Archive. DinarBot Genderless.Machine. DinarBot sharing information with all. No matter What.

[bamagirl]

Robin I don't know why some people are mean and spiteful and some aren't but I don't think that has anything to do with a certain religious affiliation, that is just in some peoples nature. I personally don't even go to an organized church because I have learned its more for socializing than learning the Lord (not all). But I know for a fact that you can't give up on something just because someone rubs you the wrong way. Girl I can tell you are a good hearted and natured person, I pray you keep your heart open.

[tumdrum]

Sorry robin what I was implying and said in a couple other replies was that its ignorant to not look at both sides of the con. Forming a belief system on minimal facts and not searching all answers is what I consider to be ignorant.

[dhardage]

The small joke I made was to Christians. About him being seen even in the stars. Was not aimed at you. Sorry you misunderstood me. I do hold the belief that you can't make an educated decision without education. Just like it would be ignorant to hear only one side of this investment(okie) and not hear the other (keeps) to make an educated decision, its the same with finding any truth. In reguards to finding the truth about god, you have to open your eyes and be willing to hear with an open mind. I gave you an extremely great tool to start that journey, but if you decide to do nothing and still hold what you believe to be true, that is ignorance. I encourage you to start the search of truth.

Sorry if I misunderstood tumdrum. I agree with MOST of this post. That last statement rubs me the wrong way though. Just because Dean chooses not to believe YOUR truth, that does not make him ignorant

Ok I'm back. Now faith is a factor but you hVe to realize there is proof as well. Just like there might be proof that you exist right now doesn't mean that I know you personally. That's where faith comes in. Faith starts the relationship. nd relationship is what it really is about, not acknowledgments of whether or not some one exists. Dean mentioned he wanted proof of gods existence. And there is scientific proof. As I said before, if you don't believe me, go read that book. All Christians should read unshakeable foundations in my opinion. Bama I do understand that people have blinders on but a lot of those blinders are self made.

I believe that there are many different forms of faith. Not all of them involve God.

[tumdrum]

I have no problem with someone that disagrees with me but if someone decides to have a stance on something its always a good I sea to have some sort of education on the subject. He is in question of truth and I gave a resource to understand my stance rather than just saying that someone is dumb for not seeing something the way I do.

[tumdrum]

I'm talking about faith with god cause that's the thread we are on.

[dhardage]

I did say it was between him and God. He's just coming here to resist.

yeah...........that must be it