14Mil

cho, I have no idea if you really believe this or if you were just putting it out there for public comment, but I do know you made someone that I care about very angry today. While you may not care, I do and would ask that you please refrain from making such rash postings in the future. In parting, here are a few words that may make you think twice before doing so again: Straight Americans need… an education of the heart and soul. They must understand – to begin with – how it can feel to spend years denying your own deepest truths, to sit silently through classes, meals, and church services while people you love toss off remarks that brutalize your soul. – Bruce Bawer From one of the Greatest Humanitarians of our time and a dam good salad dressing maker to boot: I’m a supporter of G A Y rights. And not a closet supporter either. From the time I was a kid, I have never been able to understand attacks upon the *** community. There are so many qualities that make up a human being… by the time I get through with all the things that I really admire about people, what they do with their private parts is probably so low on the list that it is irrelevant. – Paul Newman

Thankyou Colt for your personal testimony. And my sympathies for the hardship you and your family have had to share. They say a loss of a child is the most grief stricken thing that a person will ever have to go thru. It sounds as if you have made peace with your maker. Nelg, once again, appreciate the insight of a man who no doubt, should have been a poet, your words are both smooth and full of wisdom. And for you missy, always have to throw a question in at the end, eh? Makes us old geezers (as in me) spend valuable brain cells on answering questions instead of chasing, oops Nelg is in the room, instead of drinking beer. For the believers in the crowd, I ask that you don't take this disrespectfully; this is only my observations and is not meant to offend. With that disclaimer out of the way, let me just say: So what if there is no meaning in life? If you look towards science, basically we have only one purpose, to survive. And that survival, doesn't necessarily even mean you as a person, it is the very genes that make you up. Tiff, I know you know about Evolutional Biology, so I won't bore you with it as I think you would understand. Now when I meant there may not be a meaning to life, I mean for mankind, other than to advance and evolve. But that doesn’t' mean there can't be meaning in your own personal life. That is yours to discover. You are the captain of your fate and must find out what in life is your passions and then you strive to obtain them. Each individual is different. To be a good husband/wife, to be a good friend, to be a good parent, to be President (frankly, can't understand why anyone would want that job) or whatever. I have read several books on evolutional biology, and they point that moral codes are someone like t i t 4 t a t. That is, you do something for me, and in return I will do something for you. That way a society is formed, beginning with tribal knowledge and then working up to laws. With all due respect to Colt, there are several other religions and philosophies that have evolved separate to the religions of Abraham that have basically come to the same moral conclusion. Perhaps the best known one is the Golden Rule, which is found in over 23 separate religions, please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule I fall back on my original post, that because so many people in the world believe so many different ways, and yet share some of the pillars of humanity (moral codes and beliefs in Gods/afterlives), then maybe the God we seek, is within us. How you choose which one is right for you, is truly the path that each of us must take. Just a reminder: Christianity is not the oldest live religion, nor is Judaism. According to my research it is Hinduism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism In addition, Tiffany, I'm sure you will be ecstatic to see that the "Nones" (which includes deists, agnostics, atheists, and theists) is the fasted growing belief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion Now…where is that beer?!

You two are playing my tune. This is exactly my biggest hurdle to get over, and one that I pose in my postings on Devil Advocate. Nicely done!

Nelg, Thank you Sir for your insight. I’ll be honest with you, your knowledge in this area makes my head spin (and kind of ache as well). I’m nowhere close to your league in this realm, so I’ll be glad to sit on the side line and see if anyone engages you. Sparta, glad you enjoyed the feedback as well as I did. And thank you for contributing. Tiff, You know I never mind you hijacking anything of mine, except my 81 Corvette! I can only give you my insights on your question, with no more to back it up than “worldly” observations and some limited knowledge of History. As far as Hope: Yes, there is no doubt that belief does provide comfort. You need only look at parental love to known that if you believe a loving father (or mother) is looking after you, it gives you the courage to carry on. However, a “Hope” in an afterlife can also work against the betterment of mankind. For example, Islamic radicals use the false pretense of 72 virgins in Heaven if they die in the name of Allah. Likewise, in WWII the Kamikaze pilots were told of a special place in Heaven if they sacrificed their life for the Empire. As others have said, evil men have used this to control people for centuries if not millenniums. Even today, one could argue that giving up one’s life for God and Country is a major incentive for taking part in one’s country’s War. In this case, I’m not saying it is bad, I’m just saying it is used as a motivation for warfighters to take up their weapons. With that said, I also wonder what would take up the slack, if belief was taken away. Personally, it is still a bitter pill to swallow when I think that the Universe is uncaring and that I will exist for only a blink of an eye. But, it gets back to what I have seen you quote: is it better to be a happy pig (i.e. ignorant) or is it better to be a unhappy Socrates (i.e. realist knowing what is in store at the end )? For believers, I do not mean to construe that there is no afterlife, I simply mean that for me, as a skeptic, it is reality that I find difficult to digest. Now, as far as a moral code and what would happen if Religion was immediately swept away (via Ancient Cosmic Race landing on the WH), that also would be a dilemma. The very fact of another intelligent race landing period would cause generalized panic, I would think. To look for an answer, we may want to turn to Asia. The Eastern Religions or Philosophies give moral codes to live by but without much in comparison with Western ideology. They believe more in the family unit vs. the individual. As in, they know that doing something worthwhile with their lives would make their ancestors (both alive and dead) proud of them. But this is something they grow up with and is begun in early childhood. So, concerning your scenario, where an afterlife/deity is no longer a liable possibility, it would definitely be a problem for most people to deal with. I know you have seen it, even on this site, that there are some here that it is even uncomfortable to question their faith in a thread such as this, saying that it is the work of the devil. Therefore, I hazard to guess, what these individuals would do, if their faiths were question to such a degree. I’d assume most would deny anytype of evidence, while other would commit suicide and some may even take up the sword to continue to press their beliefs (as in assassinating the aliens, perhaps thinking they are the Devil’s work). Fortunately, I don’t think we will have to worry about that during our lifetimes. But I agree, Religion does have its place in both providing Hope and a moral code to the Masses. Whew! Can I go have a cold beer now?

Where in any of Tiff's responses on this thread did she say she was denying how you, as a Christian, worship? If you read, truly read what she wrote, she is saying that ALL beliefs should be honored. You continue to want to paint her as Anti-Christian, but there is no bullet in that gun. And having read a bit of the Good Book myself, I'm sure Jesus would smother others will love and affection, that is HIS way. I propose we just drop this discussion here. On another thread, she offered the olive branch, I suggest that it be accepted.

And to you and yours Tiff. May the New Year bring true Peace on Earth and Good Will towards Mankind, no matter of your race, religion or nationality...we are all in this together. Peace to all

That was uncool Francie. There was no need to do that to Tiff. If you followed the posts you would have know that.

Caye98, You make way too much sense. Having spent 4 years in Bahrain...can't argue with anything you've stated. Also, they kind of have the Big Brother attitude. While they like to fight among themselves, they get really mad if someone else outside the family starts picking on one if their little brothers. It will be interesting to see how the ME evolves in the decades ahead...as a redistribution of wealth allows them to become more education and more free thinkers. Funny, I usually write on religious topics and your comments seem specifically applicable to that as well. Specifically: Certainly the more educated a person becomes the less they follow anything blindly, but if your leadership controls information, education, and beliefs they are indeed shaping their society. I firmly believe that the internet and cable TV has done more to wake up that part of the world on what is possible. I remember many a times talking to the locals and they actually believe that Bay Watch was an actual depiction of how American's lived. If only we had a Pamela Anderson in every living room..or other rooms in the house, who would need 72 novelist, when you can have the Queen Bee at your Knees . Well said!

If I were Iran, I'd be more worried that the US may strike them vs Syria. Would Syria come to Iran's defense? The downfall of Syria is in the cards, their own people will eventually bring them down. Jordan is the first Arab country to come forward and tell the dictator to take off. It's one thing for a terrorist organization to use a N bomb vs a country. A terrorist organization can "hide" and remain stealthy...at least for awhile. However, if Iran were to use a bomb against us or even Israel, there would be a big hole where the country used to be a few days later. They know that, so it is merely saber rattling.

Excellent suggestions! Any one have thoughts on these 3: 1. How to bring down the level of Iron in your blood...other than reduce red meats? 2. Home remedies for Fatty liver (yes I know reduce Alcohol consumption but what else?) 3. Here are some of the incredible benefits of Omega 3: Cardiovascular health Most studies support the recommendation that regular consumption of fatty fish, such as tuna and mackerel, is good for heart health. 1 This is mainly through improved cardiovascular function and a beneficial effect on blood cholesterol levels. Brain development and function The brain and nervous system contain a lot of DHA, known to be important for optimal vision and communication between brain cells. It is thought that critical times for obtaining dietary DHA are; during pregnancy and breastfeeding, in infancy and in older age (when eyesight and brain function can start to decline). 1 Mental health Long chain omega-3 fats may help improve symptoms of behavioural disorders (such as ADHD), depression, bipolar disorder and agerelated dementia, though the evidence is limited at this stage. 1 Full-term pregnancy Eating fish once a week in early stages of pregnancy may help guard against pre-term delivery. Inflammatory disease There is evidence that fish oils can modulate immune responses, improving symptoms of inflammatory diseases, such as rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, cystic fibrosis and inflammatory bowel disease. Of these, rheumatoid arthritis is the only condition that shows good evidence of a potential benefit from DHA and EPA, though it is required in higher doses than could be achieved by diet alone. 1 This means a combination of regular fish consumption and fish oil supplements may give the best benefit. Colorectal cancer A recent Japanese study indicated that regular consumption of fish and fish products seems to protect against colorectal cancer. 3 More research is required to better establish this. Adequate intake (AI) and upper limit (UL) recommendations for long chain omega-3 fats in New Zealand and Australia were published last year. The UL recommendation for all ages is 3,000 mg per day. There is no lower recommended limit, as the human body can make its own long chain omega-3 fatty acids from shorter chain omega-fats. Evidence for the health benefits is mainly from consumption of long chain omega-3 fats, either from fish or supplement sources. The AI levels for children aged 1-13 years range from 40-70mg per day and the AI levels for teenagers and adults over 14 years range from 85 - 160mg per day. There is no AI or UL set for infants under the age of one year. Shorter chain omega-3 fats occur naturally in a variety of plant sources (including canola oil, olive oil, seeds and nuts). However, the only naturally occurring long-chain omega-3 fats in the diet are from marine sources such as fish (especially oily fish like tuna), crustaceans and shellfish. * North American figures obtained from http://dhaomega3.org/FoodSources/dietarysources.htm

cranster...I find much of your post disturbing on a personal level. First of all, believe me Islam and Atheist are so far apart, that I think both groups would be insulted to be lumped into the same group. Islam extremists are Anti-Christian but I'd hesitate to classify all Muslims as anti-Christians. The people of Turkey get along swimmingly well with Westerns..and until lately even Jews. For Christians in the group, I'd ask you, how often do you personally run into a person of a different faith? Especially a Muslim or an Atheist? My guess is rarely, so you only read about them in postings like this...and how often do their actions actually make a difference in your every day life? Again, my guess is seldom if ever. The only thing that ever really bothers you about them is when you read these types of postings. However, if you are one of them living in this society, one in which the Bill of Rights stipulates that are to be no laws either for/against a certain religion, you would run into Christian ideology almost at every turn. Think about it, if you saw "In Allah we trust" on your money, won't you go berserk? So, if you "walk in their sandals" for a bit, perhaps you can understand why they do what they do.

I saw an interview with someone that had a firsthand account of what went on...and one of the things that they absolutely were furious with, was the fact that almost immediately it was broadcast to the world of what happen and potentially what Intel was captured. For each hour that this wasn't released Worldwide our spooks (CIA, special forces etc.) could have been tracking down the rest of the liar. But typical politicians they wanted to claim glory ASAP. Thanks for the posting Delta!

Bill....cant' take exception to anything you say. In any religion I'm aware of, there are those who say they are such and such and then there are those who actually walk the talk. It appears you are in the later category. Peace be to you.

Bill/ems, Please forgive me, as I can see where I may have misspoke. I agree that anyone that commits these type of hate crimes are not following Jesus or Buddha etc and are animals. Absolutely! What I should have maybe pointed out instead is that Atheists and Buddhists have not committed terrorist acts in the name of their ideology. Now do both of these groups commit crimes as individuals, of course, but not in the name of their beliefs. Thank you for pointing out my failures to clarify this. ems...first, thank you for being a gentleperson and pointing out that people of different beliefs can learn from one another. To be honest, I think that is 99% of the problem, we...the big WE as a culture seem to be unwilling to be open minded sometimes. As long as we respect other's opinions and agree to co-exist, then we will continue to evolve as a society. However, I must ask for one point of clarification ems..you stated: most of the other religions claim that all roads lead to God or what really counts is one's sincere attempt to do good I'm not sure if that is true, but...am willing to learn more. Hindu and Buddhism are so alien that I'm not sure one can really classify them in the same Abraham categories as: Jewish, Islam,& Christianity. Agreed, that they do rely on good deeds to go to another level, but it's unlike a Christian/Islamic Heaven, thus, I have a hard time comparing apples to apples. Secondly, Muslims would squarely fit in the realm of "if you don't believe what I believe, you aren't going to Heaven". And of course, they don't believe in the divinity of Christ. I humbly maintain that the reasons Christians are picked on in American society is that Christians are the 800 lbs. Gorilla. Or as we say in the military, you offer a target rich environment. Again, appreciate the opportunity to express my thoughts.

Excellent point. Why rattle off quotes that don't pertain to the discussion. Each "religion" I'm sure has quotes that taken out of context could support what the poster wants to say. For instance, here are examples of not so nice things that go on in the Bible that one could take out of context: GENESIS 17:9-14 Circumcision mandated 19:1-8 Rape virgins instead of male angels 19:30-38 Righteous man impregnates his 2 daughters while drunk 24:2-3, 9 Place your hand "under the thigh" (sexual organs) of someone swearing sacred oaths 25:1-6 Keeping mistresses is not adultery 32:25 God grabs Jacob's testicles 34:1-31 Brothers are riled when sister is defiled 35:2 Reuben sleeps with father's concubine 38:1-10 Onan's method of birth control not approved 38:12-30 Tamar plays the harlot to seduce father-in-law 39:1-20 Women tries to rape man 47:29 Joseph ordered to place his hand under father's thigh EXODUS 20:26 God specifies building of altar to prevent exposure of nakedness 22:19 Death decreed for bestiality 33:17-23 God moons Moses NUMBERS 31:1-18; 28-47 God commands genocide of Midianites, Moses orders that virgins be kept, other captives slain 5:11-31 God's fidelity test for women only LEVITICUS 12:1-8 Bible calls childbirth a sin and bearing females a greater sin than bearing males 15:16-18 Sperm and intercourse are unclean 15:19-33 Menstruation unclean; elaborate rules 15:29-30 Women must make sin offering for menstrual periods 18:22 Homosexuality declared an abomination 18:23 More bestiality 19:1,20-22 Man gets forgiven, slave girl gets flogging 20:10 Adulterers shall be put to death 20:13 Death decreed for homosexuals 20:15-16 Death decreed for bestiality (& beast) 26:29 Curse: Eat your sons and daughters DEUTERONOMY 3:1-7 Kill men, women, & children 21:10-14 God okays captured maidens as trial wives 22:5 Men's clothing not to be worn by women, & vice versa 22:13-21 A bride not a virgin must die 22:23-26 Virgin raped in city given no pity 23:12-14 Defecation: Carry paddle, dig hole, & cover up 25:5-10 Woman has cause to spit in man's face 25:11-12 A woman shall have her hand cut off for touching a penis 22:28-29 Paying father to have sex with daughter 23:1 Man "wounded in the stones" can't enter congregation 23:2 Children born out of wedlock condemned as bastards to 10th generation 23:10-11 Cleanliness called for in nocturnal emissions 24:1 Man can divorce wife through eviction 28:27 Hemorrhoids ("emerods") punishment for sin 28:30 Lord's curse: Another man shall lie with groom's bride first 28:53-57 Curse: Eat your own body & children JUDGES 3:20-22 Dagger in fat king's gut gets "dirt" out 4:4-22 Hammer & nail murder by woman 8:30 Gideon had many wives, concubines 11:29-40 Jephtha's daughter: human sacrifice 19:1-30 Woman raped and ruined by homosexuals 21:6-25 Amidst carnage virgins captured for wives RUTH 3:6-9 To "hook" him as husband, Ruth sleeps with Boaz 4:9-10 Boaz buys Ruth I SAMUEL 5:9-12 Philistines "smitten with emerods" as punishment for stealing ark 6:1-5 To placate God, make golden emerods 15:3 God orders Saul to kill suckling babes 18:23-27 200 foreskins gain David a king's daughter 25:22,34 Any that pisseth against the wall II SAMUEL 3:7 More concubine hanky-panky 11:1-27 Uriah sent to lose his life so David can get his wife 12:7-12 Obscene performance to be viewed by all Israel 5:13 David had many wives, concubines Chapter 13 Amnon rapes his sister 16:20-23 Absalom copulates with father's concubines on rooftop 20:3 David imprisons concubines for above I KINGS 1:1-4 Virgin as therapy for sick old man unsuccessful 11:1-10 Wise Solomon has wives and concubines galore 14:10 Him that pisseth against the wall 16:11 One that pisseth against a wall 21:21 Him that pisseth against the wall II KINGS 6:24-33 "So we boiled my son, and did eat him" 9:8 Subject not mentioned in sermons 23:7 Male houses of prostitution destroyed I CHRONICLES 1:32-33 Abraham's concubines have children II CHRONICLES 11:21 King Rehoboam had 18 wives & 60 concubines ESTHER Chapters 1-2 Sexual contest to decide new queen SONG OF SOLOMON (the whole thing!) ISAIAH 3:16 "...and the Lord will discover their secret parts" 9:20 Every man shall eat the flesh of his own arm 14:21-22 Slaughter children for fathers' iniquity 16:11 Biblical boast: "My bowels shall sound like an harp" 36:12 Eating dung and drinking piss JEREMIAH 16:4 Grievous, obscene deaths LAMENTATIONS 2:19 Something to lament 4:10 Women boil children for food EZEKIEL 4:12-15 God says: Eat bread defiled with dung 5:8-10 What's for dinner? 8:2 Lord's loins make guest appearance 16:15 Fornications pour out 16:36-37 Their "filthiness poured out..." 23:1-40 Sex organs and ejaculate of harlots' lovers compared to asses & horses 29:7-8 God performs bloody castration via a sword HOSEA 1:2-11 God tells Hosea to take ***** to wife 2:1-15 Complications ensue (lewdly described) NAHUM 3:4-6 Lord: "I will discover thy skirts upon thy face" MALACHI 2:1-4 An angry god will spread feces on your faces MATTHEW 5:27-30 A man may lust but it's not considered just 5:31-32 Man can divorce wife for fornication only 19:3-9 Man who divorces and remarries is adulterer 19:12 Castrate yourself for Jesus 22:24 Law of Onan (you have to marry your dead brother's wife) LUKE 2:21 Eight day old Jesus is circumcised ACTS 5:38 Eunuch baptized 15:24 Circumcision is not commandment 16:3 Paul circumcises adult ROMANS 1:26-32 *** men and lesbians "worthy of death" I CORINTHIANS 6:18-20 Abstain from sex 7:1-40 To be more holy, refrain from sex wholly 7:18-19 If you're not circumcised, stay that way GALATIANS 5:1-4 Paul speaks against circumcision REVELATION 17:1-6 A ***** is stripped, eaten and burned