RV expectations?

[natjus843]

i have learned a ton about the dinar and its future in the last month, and the vast majority of that knowledge has come from this site. initially i thought buying the dinar would be a long term investment, waiting for the country to stabilize itself, and slowly building its value against the USD. now i know its the re-valuation that i am waiting for (hopefully much shorter term). my question to you: what do you expect the dinar to be revalued at? i know there is no way to tell for sure, but i like hearing others opinions. i have about 1% of my total investments in the dinar. since it is kind of a long shot, i feel okay about that. i am curious what you guys expect to get as a return on your investment.

[DinarGuyinSC]

All indications as you've likely seen on this site seem to land in the $3.00--- $3.80 range---but if you look at the financial gain compared to the investment---IMO it wouldnt' really matter if it only came in at $1.00. But like everyone else, I'm hoping for higher (than $1.00). time will tell...like you said hopefully we won't have to wait long.

[Roscoboy007]

i have learned a ton about the dinar and its future in the last month, and the vast majority of that knowledge has come from this site. initially i thought buying the dinar would be a long term investment, waiting for the country to stabilize itself, and slowly building its value against the USD. now i know its the re-valuation that i am waiting for (hopefully much shorter term). my question to you: what do you expect the dinar to be revalued at? i know there is no way to tell for sure, but i like hearing others opinions. i have about 1% of my total investments in the dinar. since it is kind of a long shot, i feel okay about that. i am curious what you guys expect to get as a return on your investment.

I told myself when I started (7 months ago) that if I go .50 IQD to 1 USD I would be happy. I invested $1000 to "maybe" make $500,000 - not a bad return. Now with all the other "intel gurus" I am looking at everything over .5 to 1 is just bonus $$$$..... I would rather think a bit smaller and have it come in higher. Some people that are going on the 5 to 1 and high will be disappointed if it comes in much lower. Oh - I would love the 3 to 1 , don't get me wrong

[natjus843]

roscoboy, i was in your same school of thought initially and i agree about tempering your expectations. many people (on this site and elsewhere) know far more than me about this situation, i just have a very hard time believing the $2000 in dinar i purchased will make me a multimillionare. dont get me wrong, i would love it, it just seems highly unlikely. here is my main argument against that kind of "inflation":

"joe", a middle class iraqi citizen, has 5,000,000.00 dinar in his savings account. lets say that is about average for the iraqi middle class (i understand there are not a substantial amount of middle class citizens in iraq, but some people must have savings). if the dinar revalues to equal the dollar, joe will now be worth the equivalent of 5 million usd. all of a sudden joe, and all the other iraqis w/ meager savings, are millionares. what will that make a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk cost? somebody please set me straight. i do not see how this cannot happen.

[fatbob]

$.89-$1.20

[fabell]

The problem with your logic is that he is not in the USA and will not be using USD. He will be exactly where he was and along with every other citizen of Iraq. If they all change together (as they will) then it does not change the whole. However, the buying power of the money they have and the imports the country brings in...will go MUCH farther. Thus, making them happy! Not to mention the cost of rebuilding the country will cost about 1000 times less for the contractors the country will have to hire.

[dlbfilm]

NO ONE KNOWS........................ AND THAT IS THE TRUTH...................

[midctyman1]

$2.25 - 2.86 if it comes out too low.. speculators wont turn in dinar.. most wont.. some will.. i know if it comes out at .30 i am holding onto mine or trading in for lower denominations.. as i am sure many others shall do as well.. and even more speculators will come onboard.. and could bring Iraq financially down.. if it comes out too high ($3+).. then the CBI cant make any money off the Dinar.. because its already at or close to its highest point... so if it comes out somewhere in the middle.. ($2.25 - 2.86) Then it will cut down on speculators..i know ill be cashing all mine in at this rate.. and.. the CBI can make $$$ when they buy/sell the Dinar.. they can buy for 2.20..sell for $ 2.40 and make $$ for themselves... a virtual win win for everyone involved! but thats just how i see it Good times are a comin!!

[natjus843]

$2.25 - 2.86 if it comes out too low.. speculators wont turn in dinar.. most wont.. some will.. i know if it comes out at .30 i am holding onto mine or trading in for lower denominations.. as i am sure many others shall do as well.. and even more speculators will come onboard.. and could bring Iraq financially down.. if it comes out too high ($3+).. then the CBI cant make any money off the Dinar.. because its already at or close to its highest point... so if it comes out somewhere in the middle.. ($2.25 - 2.86) Then it will cut down on speculators..i know ill be cashing all mine in at this rate.. and.. the CBI can make $$$ when they buy/sell the Dinar.. they can buy for 2.20..sell for $ 2.40 and make $$ for themselves... a virtual win win for everyone involved! but thats just how i see it Good times are a comin!!

so if it revalued at $1.00 you would hold out? that is pretty gutsy. not saying i do not believe you, but a bird in the hand...all i am saying is that a 1000% ROI is tough to pass up.

[Az Joe]

Remember one thing about this investment for the new comers.This all was being said 5 years ago when I got on this rollercoaster.I was told next week it is gonna RV.

This has been going on for years and may go on for afew more.I hope not I hope it is over soon.I have had motion sickness from this ride for a long time.I am just saying look at it as long term and if it comes soon great.But don't quit your job or spend your rent thinking it is gonna hit Sunday or whatever day you hear.

I am for anything over a buck.GO RV!!!!!!!!!!!! NO LOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[midctyman1]

so if it revalued at $1.00 you would hold out? that is pretty gutsy. not saying i do not believe you, but a bird in the hand...all i am saying is that a 1000% ROI is tough to pass up.

at $1.. id probably cash in some.. and hold onto the rest to see how things progressed... i aint crazy but.. i would hate to cash in all @ $1... then 4 months later have it rise to $2+ and be kicking myself.. patience and making informed decisions... thats all i am suggesting.. when the RV comes.. scream out loud.. but dont go rush to the bank! rush to your attorney/CPA/financial planner first!! And let them tell you what will be best for you.. i believe in paying taxes.. but come on.. im in LA.. 35% to the Fed..and 6% to La?! thats alot! pay your taxes.. but dont NOT take advantage of all the breaks your hired pros can find ya!

[natjus843]

Remember one thing about this investment for the new comers.This all was being said 5 years ago when I got on this rollercoaster.I was told next week it is gonna RV.

This has been going on for years and may go on for afew more.I hope not I hope it is over soon.I have had motion sickness from this ride for a long time.I am just saying look at it as long term and if it comes soon great.But don't quit your job or spend your rent thinking it is gonna hit Sunday or whatever day you hear.

I am for anything over a buck.GO RV!!!!!!!!!!!! NO LOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am definitely new to this whole concept; first heard about it last week and bought my first dinar two days later (after speaking w/ my financial advisor). as someone who deals w/ investment properties for a living, i am having a hard time wrapping my head around the profit margins involved here. why isn't everyone doing this? do people not know about it, or are they just not convinced?

[midctyman1]

i am definitely new to this whole concept; first heard about it last week and bought my first dinar two days later (after speaking w/ my financial advisor). as someone who deals w/ investment properties for a living, i am having a hard time wrapping my head around the profit margins involved here. why isn't everyone doing this? do people not know about it, or are they just not convinced?

i too am in real estate.. but here in new orleans.. i have asked probably 50 people about the IQD.. i have not had one single person say they knew anything about it.. i have friends that work at both capital one and chase bank.. one is regioal business banking manager...he too hadnt heard about it.. my friend at Cap 1 is who turned me onto this investment.. most people even after i tell them about it think its a "pie in the sky" notion... i plan on sending them all some yummy pie after this is all done Its the safest investment i have made in years.. lost thousands in oil.. real estate.. and stocks.. this has the potential to heal all those bad memories.. keep a positive mindset! Its only a matter of time!

[American]

I think it will come in at $3+ to match Kuwaiti Dinar!

This is the best explanation that I have seen as how they can justify a $3+ RV.

CONCEPT EXPLAINED:

First off, I’ll use the exchange of a 10,000 IQD note as my example. To help explain the economics of this cash-in example, I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio between the USD and IQD, that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread.

What You Will Receive:

If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2% spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your bank account.

What Your Bank Will Receive:

Your Bank will receive a $10,000 credit to its Federal Reserve Account. They will also be able to add the $200 profit to their “capital account”.

If you don’t understand the “Fractional Banking“ concept that runs our country, you may want to, as that is what this is based on, and is what is behind this entire concept and plan. To learn more about this concept, I suggest you click HERE, and go to a video post I brought to the forum previously, and posted in my “Tidbits“ section.

Ultimately, the bank wins because they are able to gain $2,000 in lending power under the 10% “Fractional Banking“ model.

What the US Treasury Will Receive:

First off, the US Treasury will receive $3,500 in estimated taxes in the quarter after the exchange, because you are now in the “rich” category and get to enjoy the 35% tax bracket. This lowers the “net cost” of the IQD exchange to the US financial system to $6,500 USD (i.e. $10,000 out – $3,500 in). Furthermore, the US Treasury’s rate is higher than the banking rate (we will use in this example 1.25), thereby further reducing their “net cost” from $6,500 to $4,000.

Oil Now Enters the Picture:

At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq. Payment will consist of a $12,500 transfer from the Fed’s foreign currency reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI in a form otherwise known as PetroDollars/PetroDinar. Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they don’t want USD in their foreign currency reserves.

How the CBI “RECAPTURES” the Money:

The $12,500 order is filled with 250 barrels of oil based on the spot price on the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel. From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)

What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note! Can they afford that? I think so! So, instead of paying out $12,500 for a 10,000 IQD note, they only pay $162.50! That doesn’t add to the money supply much at all does it! They receive their IQD back and place it in the CBI, or destroy it.

The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign reserve credits which are equal to $12,500 USD (which had a net acquisition cost of $4,000 USD for the US) for 250 barrels of oil (which has a TOTAL COST to produce of $162.50 USD for Iraq.

More completely explained, and simply put, it cost Iraq $162.50 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $12,500 worth of oil for a net cost of $4,000. That’s how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.)

Other Factors that Strengthen Iraq’s Position and Ability to RV:

■DFI Funds Returned & Other Assets: $280+ Billion USD, plus other frozen assets (estimated at $100 billion) will be returned back to Iraq and added to their foreign currency reserve, bringing it up to $430+ billion USD.

■CBI IQD Reserve Requirement Adjustment: The CBI will change the current fractional IQD reserve requirements from 100% to 15% at the appropriate time. As a result, the the total potential money supply will be raised in value to $2.8 Trillion (430 billion/15), while at the same time, the total physical IQD in circulation will be reduced by removing the large bills with the 3 zeros over a period of 2 years, as they have indicated.

■Oil Production Increased: Iraq will also execute the plan they announced to increase oil production from 2+ million barrels/day to 10 million barrels/day with the resulting revenues flowing directly to the Iraq treasury.

■Oil Futures & Forex Contracts Added: To further stir the pot, the CBI will continue to use it’s sales window to market oil futures and forex contracts. They have shown they can generate significant cash flow in the private market. Think of their impact in public markets.

There, my friends, is how this plan will be enacted and made possible. Taking NOTHING, and turning it into SOMETHING, then bringing it back to a “manageable and reasonable something” that is accepted and supported by seeming endless supplies of oil. This is how the world’s ENTIRE NEW MONETARY SYSTEM will be regenerated and supported and backed, given, in essence, a re-birth and renewed for most governments and economic regions… even by “Black Gold”.

So, here’s the summary for all the “players” involved, giving ballpark numbers, and not taking into account superfluous costs, fees, and other small details that don’t really affect the larger picture:

■Investor’s Net Gain: $10,000 – $200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment that cost $10

■Bank’s Net Gain: $200 added to “capital account”, plus $2,000 they can use to loan out.

■US Treasury Net Gain: $2,500 from the .25 spread on top + $3,500 in quarterly taxes = $6,000

■CBI/GOI/Iraqi People Net Gain: $12,500 – $162.50 = $12,337.50 + Profits from “Other Factors”

■Overall Net Gain for All Involved: $6,370+$200+$6,000+12,337.20 = $24,907.20

This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?! You tell me… can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!!

In this scenario, EVERYONE WINS… and the IQD is slowly (over 2 years) taken back in to the CBI… eventually destroyed, leaving a manageable M2 behind, having created HUGE WEALTH throughout the world to re-supply what was allowed to be destroyed in the “great bleed” over a period of just a few weeks a couple of years ago, even the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. Believe it or not, it has happened for this very purpose, and it IS coming!

[waterman13]

Yes, it is coming. As I have been saying next Sunday @ 3.33, immediately, and possibly going to 5.00 after a few months, back down to around 3. Just my opinion! GO RV!!!

[Rob P]

Good Post American,

Your plan makes a lot of sense, I agree that there is a method behind the madness on a global basis and can see a lot of common sense logic with the pro's and con's of th RV taking place.

Once it flips and I can physically see the fruits of my "investment" its time to fire up the BBQ and blow the dust off of the hooka my mother-in-law sent me from Iraq.

Thanks for the insight.

[mrparrot]

Based on the lack of action on the politicians parts,

I no longer have any expectations of an rv.

I do, however, fully expect Iraq to continue

to be a third world cesspool until the end

of time.

Smoke and mirrors had a legitimate place for

maybe the first month, maybe even two, if

they were actually doing something.

But this is beyond unbelievable.

Let 'em stew in their own failure.

My Dinar looks wonderful on the walls in

the bathroom and dining room as cheap wallpaper...

[bikertrash]

WoW mrparrot I'll go ahead take your ID off your hands for $700.00 a million then you can buy PRETTY wall paper

[MrRich]

roscoboy, i was in your same school of thought initially and i agree about tempering your expectations. many people (on this site and elsewhere) know far more than me about this situation, i just have a very hard time believing the $2000 in dinar i purchased will make me a multimillionare. dont get me wrong, i would love it, it just seems highly unlikely. here is my main argument against that kind of "inflation":

"joe", a middle class iraqi citizen, has 5,000,000.00 dinar in his savings account. lets say that is about average for the iraqi middle class (i understand there are not a substantial amount of middle class citizens in iraq, but some people must have savings). if the dinar revalues to equal the dollar, joe will now be worth the equivalent of 5 million usd. all of a sudden joe, and all the other iraqis w/ meager savings, are millionares. what will that make a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk cost? somebody please set me straight. i do not see how this cannot happen.

As has been stated on the CBI website the purchasing power of the dinar in Iraq will remain the same. What will change is the value of the dinar vs. other currencies. So the average Iraqi will probably only see the difference when traveling abroad or dealing with companies from other countries who are using their currencies in trade. The RV will stimulate their economy and as a result they will see their standard of living rise over a period of time, but I doubt most will see any big change initially.

Edited November 3, 2010 by MrRich

[hspotman]

As has been stated on the CBI website the purchasing power of the dinar in Iraq will remain the same. What will change is the value of the dinar vs. other currencies. So the average Iraqi will probably only see the difference when traveling abroad or dealing with companies from other countries who are using their currencies in trade. The RV will stimulate their economy and as a result they will see their standard of living rise over a period of time, but I doubt most will see any big change initially.

Well said, Scooby Doo. I wanted to post this same response here, but could not think of the exact words...damn ADD . If the Iraqis were to exchange their dinar for US $$, and then move over here(if they could), that would give them an incredible amount of loot, correct? But over there, it is still worth the same, or a little more....not like we're getting?

[mrparrot]

WoW mrparrot I'll go ahead take your ID off your hands for $700.00 a million then you can buy PRETTY wall paper :lol:

I have no patience when it comes to stupidity.

I live with it everyday in the form of a 17 year old step-son.

The sad thing is that he could probably get their government

formed faster than they can.

And no, I'm not going to sell you my wallpaper.

Better Homes & Gardens has a photo shoot scheduled

at my house in two weeks for their special Fall Edition,

focusing on unique wallpaper designs...

[Mammaw]

American, I appreciate your spelling it out for everyone. Always a great reminder and helpful especially to those who are new and trying to get a grasp.

I would like to throw in a point that my son told me the other day. Kuwait is having a fit about Iraq coming in as low as $1USD to 1 IQD because they do not want a "US/Mexico" problem, with people trying to come over the border to make more money. Cheap labor as it were. Kuwait is perfectly happy with the way they have it now and don't want a major influx of illegal aliens coming over the border. It is my understanding that they are telling Iraq to come in closer to the Kuwait Dinar. Now that would be sweet.

Natjus483: Another aspect to think about, is that the Arab nations don't think of millionaires the way we do. IMO many in several of the surrounding countries are millionaires due to the royalties they get from the oil in their country, and just accept it as a way of life. So why should the Iraq people be any different? For the guy who has that 5mm IQD, he will be a very rich man. IMO

[okane]

As has been stated on the CBI website the purchasing power of the dinar in Iraq will remain the same. What will change is the value of the dinar vs. other currencies. So the average Iraqi will probably only see the difference when traveling abroad or dealing with companies from other countries who are using their currencies in trade. The RV will stimulate their economy and as a result they will see their standard of living rise over a period of time, but I doubt most will see any big change initially.

Exactly!!!!! So where is the confusion? Thanks for the post.

roscoboy, i was in your same school of thought initially and i agree about tempering your expectations. many people (on this site and elsewhere) know far more than me about this situation, i just have a very hard time believing the $2000 in dinar i purchased will make me a multimillionare. dont get me wrong, i would love it, it just seems highly unlikely. here is my main argument against that kind of "inflation":

"joe", a middle class iraqi citizen, has 5,000,000.00 dinar in his savings account. lets say that is about average for the iraqi middle class (i understand there are not a substantial amount of middle class citizens in iraq, but some people must have savings). if the dinar revalues to equal the dollar, joe will now be worth the equivalent of 5 million usd. all of a sudden joe, and all the other iraqis w/ meager savings, are millionares. what will that make a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk cost? somebody please set me straight. i do not see how this cannot happen.

I read somewhere, and it may have been just an opinion, that the average Iraqi income was about 75,000 IQD per year. If the Iraqi "joe" saves like the average American "joe" then it seems a big stretch to have 5 million in savings.

[hspotman]

Exactly!!!!! So where is the confusion? Thanks for the post.

I read somewhere, and it may have been just an opinion, that the average Iraqi income was about 75,000 IQD per year. If the Iraqi "joe" saves like the average American "joe" then it seems a big stretch to have 5 million in savings.

While we wait for it to RV and at whatever rate it RVs at, I am teetering on buying more...... But then I need to ask myself(and any or you) this question- We know/think/HOPE it will RV, and RV in our near future, but what would keep the IQD from ever RVing? Granted this is a low risk investment, as you can most likely get the majority of you money back if/when you sell it. But is there anything that will stop this from RVing, or keep "us" from making out on this? This is not a negative thought, just trying see all angles.

[okane]

While we wait for it to RV and at whatever rate it RVs at, I am teetering on buying more...... But then I need to ask myself(and any or you) this question- We know/think/HOPE it will RV, and RV in our near future, but what would keep the IQD from ever RVing? Granted this is a low risk investment, as you can most likely get the majority of you money back if/when you sell it. But is there anything that will stop this from RVing, or keep "us" from making out on this? This is not a negative thought, just trying see all angles.

Good question, I guess that I've not looked at it from that angle before. I would say just more of the same stuff that we see going on over the past weeks/months/years. But I have faith in the human ego. That the Iraqi people will want to be the world power and influence that they once enjoyed. To be competitive on the world market their money has to be competitive.