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sheltagar

Who has biblical proof that Jesus was born on dec25

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Why do we criticize another persons opinion, especially that persons religious opinion?  We don't do everything alike.  Never have and never will.  Opinions have nothing to do with the standards of faith or biblical doctrine.  These are opinions we chose to do or ways we chose to act without the have a passage of Scripture to back it up.  It is just an opinion based on what "we want to do." 

 

Accept the individual who is weak in faith, but don't argue about opinions.  One person believes that he is alloved to eat anything.  But someone who is weaker eats nothing but vegetables.  The one who eats anything must not look down on the one who does not eat.  And, the one who does not eat meat must not condemn the one who eats meat, because God accepts that person also.  Who are you? Can you judge the servant of someone else?  That servant's master decides whether he is a good or bad servant, not you! (Christ is the Master. Nelg)  If he will be successful; the Lord is able to make him successful.

 

One person thinks that one day is more holy than another day.  But, another person thinks that everyday is the same.  Each person must be sure in his own mind.  When someone is honoring a special day, he is doing this for the Lord.  When someone is eating in a special way, he is thanking God.  And, the Christian who is not eating meat is doing that for the Lord.  He also thanks God!  None of us lives alone and none of us dies alone.  If we live, let's live for the Lord.  If we die, let's die for the Lord. It doesn't matter whether we live or die . . . we belong to the Lord!  

 

Christ died and came back to life, so that he could rule over the living and the dead.  But, who are you? Can you judge your fellow Christian?  Also, why do you look down on other children of God?  Because we will all stand in front of God at the Judgment Seat of Christ.  It is written in Isaiah 45:23, "The Lord says, 'As sure as I am alive: every knee will bow to Me.  Everly tongue will declare that I am God.'"  

So, each one of us must give an answer to God for the way we live.  

 

Stop criticizing one another.  Instead, do this: Decide not to put anything there which could trip-up another saint or cause them to sin.  In the Lord Jesus, I know and I'm sure, that nothing is unholy in and of itself - unless it becomes "unholy" to the person who thinks it is unholy.  If your fellow Christian feels upset because of what you do based on your opinion, you are not living with love anymore.  Don't destroy the Christian person observing a day; Christ died for him!  God's kindgom does not consist of what day we observe; what's important is being right with God, having peace, and being filled with joy based on the Holy Spirit.  

 

Therefore, let us try to have peace and build up one another.  Don't destroy God's work for the sake of a day! 

 

You have your own faith.  Keep it between yourself and God!  Happy is the person who does not condemn himself in what he approves.  But the person who doubts is condemned if he observes a day, because observing the day is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.  

 

But observing a day will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not observe the day, nor the better if we do not observe the day. Those who are weak in faith may have a problem with those who, having a strong faith, observe the day.  But those who are strong in faith must be careful not to destroy the faith of those who are weak.  

 

-

Edited by Markinsa
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To paraprhase what Nelg said, which was great!


Luke 6:42(NLT)

42 How can you think of saying, ‘Friend, let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

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According to  many bible scholars jesus christ was NOT born in the winter months... he was born in the fall season september/october.  Christmas has pagan roots without a doubt but like some have said as a collective human social event we have deemed christmas on the 25th to celebrate the birth of christ and that wont be changed anytime soon.

 

Santa= Scramble the words "Satan"

Edited by easyrider
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People miss the hugh understanding of what God and Jesus is all about because they are missing one thing.....FAITH....He who has a corrupted understanding of this does not know God and will not see the same thing that someone does who believes. Faith comes from Christ when your heart has melted from your own earthly ways and want to know him.That's where you in.....I call it the "Want to factor". Sometimes it when you have sunk to your lower state of mind is when you look up and there you will find him.

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If believers really wanted to bring glory to YHWH/God and celebrate Christ's birthday by observing it then wonderful but, why do they need to include ALL of the pagan rituals and traditions that are really the outward basis that also drives this commercial institutuion? Why do what the pagans did in honor of their gods and act like it's something that is for honoring YHWH/God? Why not just cut ALL of those things out of it and actually make it ALL about the birth of Christ? No gifts, no mistletoe, no santa claus, no yule logs, no lights, no christmas trees, no elves, nothing that relates to or endorses, or promotes anything antichrist, since this is supposed to be ONLY about CHRIST.

 

It is a fact that there was never ANY Christmas EVER heard of or practiced in the Christian Ekkleisa until the Roman Catholic church renamed a pagan festival using the name of Christ so as to help Christians meet the pagans half-way so, they could "convert" them. Christmas was established solely for the purpose of easing pagan "converts" traditions into Christianity. Of course this was not the only time this happened. There are many other Roman festival that are indeed pagan. Whene people claim to love and follow Yahushua/Jesus then why would they want to be associated with any of these traditions unless of course they really were unaware of them or they simply just don't care?

 

I have heard all kinds of excuses and exclaimations as to WHY people keep these traditions (as Christmas is today) and most seem to be basically okay with mixing paganism with biblical beliefs but, it doesn't matter what I think. It's about what YHWH/God thinks and that has been made very clear in his word so, why ignore his word and do as you please? How do these things glorify Christ?

 

There are so many who have been deceived on so many levels and it is heartbreaking when you share scriptural truth with others and they ridicule you and literraly mock YHWHs/Gods word just so that they can continue with human nature of following the herd. Sadly that sometimes also means into deception. We have to be SURE that what we believe is consistent with YHWHs/Gods word. The essence of deception is that you are unaware that you are being deceived. The ONLY cure for this is the word of YHWH/God.

 

There is something called " worship by repesentation" and satan uses it more times than not. He gains anytime he is able to sucessfully decieve. He doesn't care if you know it or not. He doesnt even care if you intentionally worship him just as long as he can draw you away from YHWH/God. Just because you don't believe that you are involved in doing something that honors him instead of YHWH doesn't mean this is not the case. He lures people into worshipping him in many different ways via representatives like materialism, man made traditions, religions, other people or objects. He can be a violent opponent but, his most dangerous and effective approach is as a subtle imposter.

 

I don't say these things beacsue I want to ruin anything for anyone or beacause I want people to like me (obviously) but, because the Holy Spirit compelles me to do so. Yahushua's true teachings weren't very popular when he was on earth and that fact remains today, however, it does not make them or him any less than absolute truth!

 

We need to ask ourselves lots of quetions about why we do the things we do because sometimes we forget, become confused or even really didn't know why in the first place... If someone were to ask you, "Why do you take time to go out and find a tree, adorn it and put it on display every year on Dec. 25Th? Many people are like, "Well, because it's Christmas" or "That's just a part of Christmas", etc. This is probably because they don't really know WHY and do it because that is what EVERYONE else does.

 

Why don't more people question why we do these things, what it repesents, where did it come from, how does it tie in to Christ's birth which is what Christmas is supposed to be ALL about?

 

Do you think that having a Christmas tree is pleasing to YHWH/God? Does it glorify him in any way? Does it represent Christ? I can tell you that the answer is no all day long but again, what I think or say is irrelevant unless it can be proven with YHWs/Gods word... and that is ALL that matters. He reveals to us that a tree that is cut down, adorned and displayed in such a manner is simply a wooden idol and that he is not pleased with it. He speaks about the custums or traditions pertaining to this and he calls them the ways of the heathen. You can read it yourself in Jeremiah 10:1-6. How many "Christians" or "Believers" who engage in Christmas faithfully every year actually know this? and if they know it then WHY do they continue to do it?

 

I understand that people have a terrible time with change and with looking outside of what they have been taught but, don't you think it's worth it to at least try just in case you are wrong? I am not saying that by holding Christ's birth sacred and remembering ALL that he has done and continues to do for us is wrong. Of course it isn't! He is Messiah. He is the King of Kings. He is the ONLY way to the Father... What he is not, is of this world. Even when he was a man here on this earth he was not of this world because he walked in faith and had no desire for worldy things, and Christmas is of the world. It did not come from the Father and no matter how much people claim that it is and say that they do it for Jesus, their worldly actions speak much louder. We are ALL so blessed to be able to make our own choices but, when you are making choices that benefit and bring glory to yourselves over YHWH/God then you are not celebrating the birth of the TRUE Jesus of the Bible. You are celebrating a Jesus that is of the world, a Jesus that is made up in the minds of man, a counterfeit Jesus!

 

The fact is that people don't want to hear the truth because it would mess up thier corrupted, fleshly, self serving agenda. They want their ears tickled all of the time so they can do what they want and just say that they are doing what YHWH/God wants. We need to be more concerned about what YHWH wants rather than what we want and if letting others knows this offends them then so be it because that is what Yahushua/Jesus would do. He woulld rether offend so that we can walk in truth then to keep quiet and watch us walk in the corrupted ways of man.

 

I love ALL of my Brothers and Sisters dearly and pray that YHWH fill your hearts and lives with love, blessings and truth in Yahushua HaMashiach/Jesus Christ

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According to  many bible scholars jesus christ was NOT born in the winter months... he was born in the fall season september/october.  Christmas has pagan roots without a doubt but like some have said as a collective human social event we have deemed christmas on the 25th to celebrate the birth of christ and that wont be changed anytime soon.

 

Santa= Scramble the words "Satan"

This guy did some research. Seems i have hit a sacred cow. Beware of traditions of men.

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This guy did some research. Seems i have hit a sacred cow. Beware of traditions of men.

 

Yup! Guess sometimes simplifying things is the way to go LOL... This = this plain and simple!

 

People had a really hard time understanding what Yahushua/Jesus was teaching and he simplified by using parables.

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Not one scripture yet. For the most important God in the world JESUS.

 

 

There are no scriptures to celebrate christmas, Jesus’ birthday; as you already know, as well by the comments others have shown this is obvious, evidently there is something you want to share though not wanting to be wrong either- “But many christians dont read there bibles and believe everything theyre pastors tell them.” So the question as clearly already stated, what is your point.

 

“For the most important God in the world JESUS.” This appears the way it is written; the most ‘important’ God in the world– and JESUS capitalized, to be condescending perhaps referring to possessing a knowledge of something deemed better, something you wish to share, if not and I’m just unclear please show where it denotes Jesus as being the most important God.

 

You can think of me as Berean Acts 17:11 

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There are no scriptures to celebrate christmas, Jesus’ birthday; as you already know, as well by the comments others have shown this is obvious, evidently there is something you want to share though not wanting to be wrong either- “But many christians dont read there bibles and believe everything theyre pastors tell them.” So the question as clearly already stated, what is your point.

 

“For the most important God in the world JESUS.” This appears the way it is written; the most ‘important’ God in the world– and JESUS capitalized, to be condescending perhaps referring to possessing a knowledge of something deemed better, something you wish to share, if not and I’m just unclear please show where it denotes Jesus as being the most important God.

 

You can think of me as Berean Acts 17:11 

My bible says Jesus is God in the flesh. Thus making Him GOD

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Again whats your point.

In EVERY religion their are fanatics .

Who believe their way is the only way. 

 

They who judge will be judged.

I belive thats in everybody`s bible .

 

On one day a year we as a group

Millions across the globe

celebrate the coming of the son of god

Who died on a cross that we might live eternally.

A day which totally celebrates the teachings of Jesus Christ which is to love one another.

 

Somehow this is a bad thing?

 

Fanatic

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I heard a theory that Jesus in fact was born in September because the sheep and the shepherds are still out in the field.  And yes, I have heard that all the Christmas decor is paganism.  I have done from celebrating Christmas with all the decor, gave them away and then buying another tree and decor to celebrate the holidays.

 

There should not be a debate whether Jesus is born on Christmas Day, December 25th or born in September and what date??  because the most important thing that we need to focus on is that He was born to pay for our sins and through Him, we have our salvation and eternal life.  Without Him, we are doomed.  I have also lived my life without HIm and now I would say I am glad He looked for me and found me and saved me. 

 

Christmas is the season of giving, the season of Joy, the season of peace on earth as a savior was born.  We celebrate the birth of Jesus..

 In Matthew 2:11 The three wise men, came to see Jesus and brought gifts of gold, frankincense and myrth.  The gifts have some meaning..  gold represents something precious.  Gold can represent people you love.

 

Frankincense represents praise, perfume.. Your praise and worship are like a sweet smell to the Lord.  Perfume represents something smell good.  So Frankincense represent of how you see people and how people see you too.  do you have good thoughts then it will be like sweet beautiful smell or it will be stinky like a skunk.  But whatever you think of a person, then it’s the perfume you projects about the person.  The same with other’s view of you.. what fragrance do you project…?

 

Myrth represents oil, holy spirit. It represents your heart if it’s oiled by the holy spirit or not.  What do you think in your heart? The Bible says in Luke 6:45 says a good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth that which is good, and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth that which is evil. For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.  Do you only think of people you love in Christmas season..? or you think of people you love everyday?  Or you think of evil things about people?

 

Christmas also means a season of love…. We give because we love or we love so we give.. no matter how you want to say it.. love = give.  You can not give without love.. even though when you give you are a grouchy person but still you are driven of love that’s why you give.

I think we should not only love or give during Christmas season but it has to be our everyday mission to love. 

Christmas has to be everyday because if we say we love Jesus and he dwells in our hearts then Christmas should be everyday, every moment,

because the heart has to beat so we can live J with every heartbeat, the heart beats love J so let love also be our motivation to live our lives that can be an example to the world, not only by words but also by action.

 

Christmas is a celebration of birth, love, peace and joy, family times and friends gathering to enjoy the season with all its festivities.  And don't be a scrooge :)

Edited by Nadita

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Yet Djorgie uses a wedding ring, has an umbrella, has his wife if he is married use lipstick...ALL three of those things have pagan origins.  Yet he or she has no problem doing them.  Why?  Because they are not pagan now.  Neither is Christmas anymore.

 

No Jesus was not born on December 25th.  The flocks were out at night. At that time in December they would have froze to death outside.  We know he died in April and lived 33 years and 6 months.  Counting back one arrives at October 1st.

 

 

Really? So, you know Djorgie do you? You know what Djorgie does and how SHE lives? That's correct... I am Djorgie and I am a woman not a man. I think I may have had a similar conversation with someone else here and that is fine. I have no problem clarifying things...

 

I am human and in being so I have lived in error of some sort always just like everyone else has. The difference is when you realize or are shown that what you are doing is not in line with what YHWH/God wants and you refuse to change it or completely ignore it and go about what YOU want to do and most definitely allow the sinful nature to lead and rule! If you are ignorant to something you just don't know it and whose fault is it for that? Everything we need to know is in YHWH/Gods word and if you choose not to read it, learn it, live by it then you can't blame anyone but yourself.

 

I do not wear a wedding ring, or own an umbrella or wear lipstick, however, I have done these things in the past when I was ignorant about them and I am sure there are things in each one of our lives that we unknowingly do or have that aren't appropriate but, again there is a difference in knowing something and ceasing to do it than in knowing something and continuing to do it. We ALL fall short of his glory but, we need to TRY and do as he would have us to do and that means getting informed, gaining knowledge, walking in faith and being corrected and making changes when we become aware of things.

 

As for the date of Christ's birthday it really doesn't matter because if YHWH wanted us to know exactly the day he was born he would have done so but he didn't. It's not really about the date. It is about what is involved in this so-called "celebration" of his birth. If people claim ir is ALL about his birth then why don't they take all of the other stuff out of it? I already explained and rebuked all of the STUFF and the REASONS as to why people do it but, again, people don't want to hear the truth... and I think we all KNOW why.

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.....AND, in the most combinative symbolic features of CHRISTIAN/JUDAIC principles:

JUST DECK THE HALLS WITH MATZOH BALLS..................yea merrily!

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I won't bother anyone with anymore scriptures cause this bunch here at DV can hold their own. God gave 10 things to make your life simple and pleasurable and easy and happy and loving. God also gave us a free will and a free mind to choose our own destiny. For those that have heard his words through by what ever means, should seek him out for yourself, ask him into your hearts and souls so that you will know the largest mystery of life. If you believe that their is a higher power then you are on the right track, and let no man deceive you, seek your own bond with Jesus and let him into your hearts. Merry Christmas everyone !

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I won't bother anyone with anymore scriptures cause this bunch here at DV can hold their own. God gave 10 things to make your life simple and pleasurable and easy and happy and loving. God also gave us a free will and a free mind to choose our own destiny. For those that have heard his words through by what ever means, should seek him out for yourself, ask him into your hearts and souls so that you will know the largest mystery of life. If you believe that their is a higher power then you are on the right track, and let no man deceive you, seek your own bond with Jesus and let him into your hearts. Merry Christmas everyone !

Your right God gave us a free will,but He wants us to do His will.he gave us a free mind , but He wants us to renew our mind thru His word so we may think like Jesus.

Our wills and minds are enemies of God

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Romans 3:23-26New King James Version (NKJV)

3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 6:12-23New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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sheltagar, good to know you are using your bible as the best source for spiritual answers, so before excepting a teaching as true, wouldn’t you agree the scriptures should be examined carefully making sure it harmonizes with the bibles teachings as a whole, before excepting it as truth.

Acts 17:11― Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

 

My bible says Jesus is God in the flesh. Thus making Him GOD

 

I’m not able to find any text saying such, I know this to be a common teaching, if you provide some scriptures you are using to support this belief it would help.

 

God’s first creation began with the creation of his son so they are not one and the same, one is the creator God the Father, one is the creation, either in heaven or when he was here on earth his position has always been that of Gods only begotten son, firstborn of all creation.   

 

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. (1Col 1:15,16)

 

At Genius 1:26 who is it God would be talking with? The first born of all creation the only begotten creation his son, all other things have been created through him and for him.

 

Jesus himself referred to his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3) The most high God himself said: “Besides me there is no God.” (Isa. 44:6) The apostle Paul wrote that, to true Christians, “there is . . . one God the Father.” (1 Cor. 8:5, 6) So God the Father is unique; no one else shares his position. The true God stands in utter contrast to all such objects of worship as idols, deified humans, and Satan. All these are false gods

 

Among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. (2Cor 4:4)

 

Jesus is spoken of in the Scriptures as “a god,” even as “Mighty God.” (John 1:1; Isa. 9:6) But nowhere is he spoken of as being Almighty God as in. (Gen. 17:1) Jesus is said to be “the reflection of [God’s] glory,” but the Father is the Source of that glory. (Heb. 1:3) Jesus in no way seeks the position of his Father. He said: “It is God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Luke 4:8) He exists “in God’s form,” and the Father has commanded that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend,” but this is all done “to the glory of God the Father.”—Phil. 2:5-11

 

Hope this helps.

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John 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

 

There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

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1 timothy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh.

Revelation 1:8,11,17

Do u need more?

Jesus said if youve seen me , you have seen the father.

sheltagar, good to know you are using your bible as the best source for spiritual answers, so before excepting a teaching as true, wouldn’t you agree the scriptures should be examined carefully making sure it harmonizes with the bibles teachings as a whole, before excepting it as truth.

Acts 17:11― Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

 

 

I’m not able to find any text saying such, I know this to be a common teaching, if you provide some scriptures you are using to support this belief it would help.

I can see you are confused who your God is. http://youtu.be/kY-OzhR6f3o

 

God’s first creation began with the creation of his son so they are not one and the same, one is the creator God the Father, one is the creation, either in heaven or when he was here on earth his position has always been that of Gods only begotten son, firstborn of all creation.   

 

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. (1Col 1:15,16)

 

At Genius 1:26 who is it God would be talking with? The first born of all creation the only begotten creation his son, all other things have been created through him and for him.

 

Jesus himself referred to his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3) The most high God himself said: “Besides me there is no God.” (Isa. 44:6) The apostle Paul wrote that, to true Christians, “there is . . . one God the Father.” (1 Cor. 8:5, 6) So God the Father is unique; no one else shares his position. The true God stands in utter contrast to all such objects of worship as idols, deified humans, and Satan. All these are false gods

 

Among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. (2Cor 4:4)

 

Jesus is spoken of in the Scriptures as “a god,” even as “Mighty God.” (John 1:1; Isa. 9:6) But nowhere is he spoken of as being Almighty God as in. (Gen. 17:1) Jesus is said to be “the reflection of [God’s] glory,” but the Father is the Source of that glory. (Heb. 1:3) Jesus in no way seeks the position of his Father. He said: “It is God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Luke 4:8) He exists “in God’s form,” and the Father has commanded that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend,” but this is all done “to the glory of God the Father.”—Phil. 2:5-11

 

Hope this helps.

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Christmas cookies are hard to find in June.   :shrug: 

 

GO RV, and NO BV

 

ROTFLMAO  !!!!!!!               

I won't bother anyone with anymore scriptures cause this bunch here at DV can hold their own. God gave 10 things to make your life simple and pleasurable and easy and happy and loving. God also gave us a free will and a free mind to choose our own destiny. For those that have heard his words through by what ever means, should seek him out for yourself, ask him into your hearts and souls so that you will know the largest mystery of life. If you believe that their is a higher power then you are on the right track, and let no man deceive you, seek your own bond with Jesus and let him into your hearts. Merry Christmas everyone !

Amen to that brother

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This is pretty much as I understand the actual time of my Saviors birth. The article bs which I got from a search on the internet, closely reflect the sermons on the subject I received while I attended Mission Bay Christian Fellowship Church. Then pastored by  Dr Graham Truscott. PHD (in Theology) A master Paster, Missionary (25 years in India), and teacher of Gods word. He always said to be a good Christian you should know the church history also. There are many other details to consider, choosing Dec 25th as a date to "celebrate" the birth of Christ as a mean to overcome or replace pagan celebration that took place around the same time period around the time Constantine threw out the old religion and replacing it with Christianity. There is also the different calendars used at the time verses the Roman calendar. plus much more. Here goes. Read on.Merry Christmas everone.y

 

Matthew's Account
 
Matthew is writing from a Jewish perspective trying to persuade the reader that Jesus is the long-awaited Messiah, as he includes many quotes from the prophets corroborating this and the importance of the prophecies in the story of Jesus' birth. It is only in Matthew's account where we hear of the Wise Men, again underlining Matthew's belief that the Messiah came for all - Jews and, in the case of the Wise Men, foreign Gentiles too. Other than that, Matthew's account gives little away regarding dates except for the clues in the Magi's story. We are told they approach Herod declaring that a while before that the Star appeared. They visit the child in a house (not the inn stable) [2:11] suggesting that Mary and Joseph settled in Bethlehem for a while after the birth. After the King realises he's tricked he kills children two years and younger, which suggests strongly that by this time Jesus was getting on for that age. Therefore Jesus would have been born around 18 months or so earlier. We are told, by external sources, that Herod died in 4BC which places the birth at around 5-6BC.
The mistake of believing that Herod lived a long time afterwards shows little knowledge of Jewish beliefs. Apart from some sects, the Jews believed that, after death, they lived on through their descendents. If Herod's son Archelaus had been killed by a usurper to the throne, Herod's lineage would cease. This, to a Jew, would be a far greater threat than mere death or losing the power to the throne. We are also told that after Herod's death Mary and Joseph fled to Egypt [2:14-21] taking the child [Greek = 'toddler'] with them and moved through Judea to Galilee Therefore, it is almost certain that Herod died shortly after his murder of the innocents, which still places Christ's birth at around 6BC.

Luke's Account

Luke takes a totally different angle on things. Luke was a doctor (as mentioned by Paul) and a (his Gospel) and the other (the Acts of the Apostles) telling of the events of the early Church. Both accounts were addressed to 'Theophilus' (Greek = God-lover) which strongly suggests that, as a learned doctor he was commissioned to write a definitive account of events. Luke makes it perfectly clear why he wrote his accounts: '…since I have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.' [1:2-4]. He seems true to his word in that his accounts are riddled with names, dates, external events and so on, to place the birth (and other events) in context for a person (Theophilus) who did not know first-hand the events that happened in the Holy Land at that time. While Luke was also not a first-hand witness to events, reading between the lines in both accounts it is very evident that he had interviewed Peter, Paul, Mary the mother of Jesus, John and others. Having accompanied Paul on his missionary journeys, he would have known Peter and John through Paul, and hence Mary, Jesus' mother, through John (who took her into his home after the crucifixion [John 19:27]).
Luke then had investigated the events of the birth most likely from Mary, much in the same way as an investigative journalist or biographer would do today - to ensure that all facts were corroborated and correct.
The question is, are the accounts in Luke's gospel correct? Sadly, there are few external contemporary sources that corroborate the events in Luke's gospel. However, we have Luke's second book - that of Acts, that can be corroborated. The events, the history of the churches throughout the Mediterranean area, the descriptions of Corinth, Macedonia, Thessaloniki, Crete, Ephesus, Malta and so on all are all recorded by the Church's earliest members - people like Polycarp - and these accounts corroborate with Luke's accounts and remarkably with with modern archaeological discoveries, and contemporary historical sources from the Greek and Roman Empires. It seems that Luke was not just thorough in his research, but extremely thorough. If alive today he would no doubt be regarded as one of the great historians of the day. Therefore, if we accept that his book of Acts is a truly historic document, then, as the writer also of his gospel, we must also assume that this too is accurate historically. This theory is currently being confirmed as more and more archaeology done in the Holy Land seems to agree with Luke's descriptions and claims.

 

The Quiriniuas Problem

There is, of course, the question of the governorship of Syria by Quirinius. Roman historians place his governorship at around 6AD - far too late for Matthew's account of the birth, and also too late for the other birth-placing dates Luke mentions at the start of his gospel. Luke mentions Quirinius' census of 7AD in his second book of Acts (5:37) so he was well aware of it. Therefore, his assertion that Quirinius was a governor in Syria on another occasion earlier than this seems hardly to be a slip or error. So we have the problem that Roman historians place Quirinius as a governor just once in Syria, in 6AD, and Luke asserts an earlier governorship as well as the accepted one detailed in Roman history.
The answer to this contradiction is that in 2:2, Luke mentions that the Nativity census is the 'first census'. The original Greek inflexion heavily suggests that that there was at least another census of which this was the first. The second census, of course, was the one that Luke mentions in the book of Acts (see above). Whilst Roman history records Quirinius as being governor in Syria just once, Luke suggests that Quirinius was a governor before in the same area, holding a census which would have been described as his 'first census' to distinguish it from this infamous taxation census which happened much later. It is also recorded in Roman history that when Quirinius was in charge of subduing the Homanadensians from 10 BC to around 6 BC he assumed military governorship of the surrounding provinces of Syria. Many of these areas became annexed into the Roman Empire, and so it is likely that Luke, writing much later, records Quirinius as a governor of the area that the Jews knew as Syria, whilst the Roman records record Quirinius being the official governor of a united Syria and its annexes only in 7 AD. Thus, in accordance with Luke's reputation in Acts and his gospel, it is very likely that his recording of Quirinius being a governor (whilst not the official Roman Governor) in the areas surrounding Syria which later on, in Luke's time, became annexed to Syria and the rest of the Roman Empire.

This, then places the time of Jesus' birth firmly around 6 BC using both Matthew's and Luke's accounts.

As for the time of year, what is certain is that the birth did not take place in winter (such as December 25th). This date was agreed on by the early church to replace pagan festivals to confirm Christianity's predominance over the old religions. Luke's gospel records shepherds 'abiding in the fields keeping watch over their flocks by night'[2:8]. This would be unthinkable in winter when the temperatures drop at night (even in that part of the world) to several degrees below freezing. Sheep were kept in the warmer valleys (or indoors) in winter, and only allowed to graze through the night in the summer months. Furthermore, Luke's record of Mary laying Jesus 'in a manger' [2:7] suggests that the manger was not used at that time for animal feed because the animals were outside. This places the birth, therefore, sometime between April and September in around 6BC.

 

Also Jesus was stated to be 30 when he began his ministry, and this means he was killed when he was about 33 years old. Since there is excellent documentation on Pontius Pilate's tenure, by working backwards we can then estimate Jesus' birth as between 4 BC and 7 BC. Or even 6 BC.

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Wow , all i asked for was 2-3 verses to support this "christian" celebration.

I thought it was a sin for christians to lie.

So what is your reason for the season?

When i say christian ,i dont mean catholic.

Im talking baptised in Jesus name for remission of sins and filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues.only one way to be saved

Acts2:37,38

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http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

 

I.     When was Jesus born?

A.     Popular myth puts his birth on December 25th in the year 1 C.E.

B.     The New Testament gives no date or year for Jesus’ birth.  The earliest gospel – St. Mark’s, written about 65 CE – begins with the baptism of an adult Jesus.  This suggests that the earliest Christians lacked interest in or knowledge of Jesus’ birthdate.

C.     The year of Jesus birth was determined by Dionysius Exiguus, a Scythian monk, “abbot of a Roman monastery.  His calculation went as follows:

a.       In the Roman, pre-Christian era, years were counted from ab urbe condita (“the founding of the City” [Rome]).  Thus 1 AUC signifies the year Rome was founded, 5 AUC signifies the 5th year of Rome’s reign, etc.

b.     Dionysius received a tradition that the Roman emperor Augustus reigned 43 years, and was followed by the emperor Tiberius.

c.       Luke 3:1,23 indicates that when Jesus turned 30 years old, it was the 15th year of Tiberius reign.

d.      If Jesus was 30 years old in Tiberius’ reign, then he lived 15 years under Augustus (placing Jesus birth in Augustus’ 28th year of reign).

e.       Augustus took power in 727 AUC.  Therefore, Dionysius put Jesus birth in 754 AUC.

f.        However, Luke 1:5 places Jesus’ birth in the days of Herod, and Herod died in 750 AUC – four years before the year in which Dionysius places Jesus birth.

D.     Joseph A. Fitzmyer – Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at the Catholic University of America, member of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, and former president of the Catholic Biblical Association – writing in the Catholic Church’s official commentary on the New Testament[1], writes about the date of Jesus’ birth, “Though the year [of Jesus birth is not reckoned with certainty, the birth did not occur in AD 1.  The Christian era, supposed to have its starting point in the year of Jesus birth, is based on a miscalculation introduced ca. 533 by Dionysius Exiguus.”

E.      The DePascha Computus, an anonymous document believed to have been written in North Africa around 243 CE, placed Jesus birth on March 28.  Clement, a bishop of Alexandria (d. ca. 215 CE), thought Jesus was born on November 18.  Based on historical records, Fitzmyer guesses that Jesus birth occurred on September 11, 3 BCE.

 

II.     How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

A.    Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25.  During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration.  The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.”  Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week.  At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

B.    The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time.  In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

C.    In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.  Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]

D.    The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

E.      Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia.  As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.”  The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

F.      The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who  first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3]  Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4]  However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.

G.    Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city.  An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators.  They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]

H.     As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”[6]  On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country.  In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped.  Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.

 

III.     The Origins of Christmas Customs

A.     The Origin of Christmas Tree
Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees”.[7]
  Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.

B.     The Origin of Mistletoe
Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna.  Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim.[8]
  The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.[9]

C.     The Origin of Christmas Presents
In pre-Christian
Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January).  Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace.  The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas (see below).[10]

D.     The Origin of Santa Claus

a.       Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra.  He died in 345 CE on December 6th.  He was only named a saint in the 19th century.

b.      Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament.  The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil”[11] who sentenced Jesus to death.

c.       In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy.  There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts.  The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult.  Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

d.      The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans.  These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw.  Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn.  When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

e.       In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.

f.        In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History.  The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

g.       Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.  The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…”  Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

h.       The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus.  From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly.  Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock.  Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world.  All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

i.         In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa.  Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face.  The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red.  And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

 

IV.     The Christmas Challenge

·        Christmas has always been a holiday celebrated carelessly.  For millennia, pagans, Christians, and even Jews have been swept away in the season’s festivities, and very few people ever pause to consider the celebration’s intrinsic meaning, history, or origins.

·       Christmas celebrates the birth of the Christian god who came to rescue mankind from the “curse of the Torah.”  It is a 24-hour declaration that Judaism is no longer valid.

·        Christmas is a lie.  There is no Christian church with a tradition that Jesus was really born on December 25th.

·        December 25 is a day on which Jews have been shamed, tortured, and murdered.

·        Many of the most popular Christmas customs – including Christmas trees, mistletoe, Christmas presents, and Santa Claus – are modern incarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.

 

Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance.  If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning.  “We are just having fun.”

Imagine that between 1933-45, the Nazi regime celebrated Adolf Hitler’s birthday – April 20 – as a holiday.  Imagine that they named the day, “Hitlerday,” and observed the day with feasting, drunkenness, gift-giving, and various pagan practices.  Imagine that on that day, Jews were historically subject to perverse tortures and abuse, and that this continued for centuries.

Now, imagine that your great-great-great-grandchildren were about to celebrate Hitlerday.  April 20th arrived. They had long forgotten about Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen.  They had never heard of gas chambers or death marches.  They had purchased champagne and caviar, and were about to begin the party, when someone reminded them of the day’s real history and their ancestors’ agony.  Imagine that they initially objected, “We aren’t celebrating the Holocaust; we’re just having a little Hitlerday party.”  If you could travel forward in time and meet them; if you could say a few words to them, what would you advise them to do on Hitlerday?

On December 25, 1941, Julius Streicher, one of the most vicious of Hitler’s assistants, celebrated Christmas by penning the following editorial in his rabidly Antisemitic newspaper, Der Stuermer:

If one really wants to put an end to the continued prospering of this curse from heaven that is the Jewish blood, there is only one way to do it: to eradicate this people, this Satan’s son, root and branch.

It was an appropriate thought for the day.  This Christmas, how will we celebrate?

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/winter-solstice-2014-3-things-know-about-pagan-yule-celebrations-1763756

 

December may be marked by Christmas, Hanukkah and Kwanzaa, but for pagans it’s the time to celebrate Yule. The holiday marks the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere (Sunday, Dec. 21, this year) and celebrates the rebirth of the sun and beginning of winter. It is one of the oldest winter celebrations known.

The winter solstice is the longest night and shortest day of the year. The Earth’s axis tilts the furthest away from the sun at 23-and-a-half degrees, giving all locations north of the equator less than 12 hours of daylight. This moment has been marked by mankind for centuries.

In ancient Rome, the weeklong feast of Saturnalia honored the sun god Saturn. Celts believed the sun stood still for 12 days, making it necessary to light a log fire to conquer the darkness. During the Iron Age, the Celts and other ancient Europeans welcomed the winter solstice by feasting, merrymaking and sacrificing animals. Today modern pagans celebrate the holiday by lighting candles, throwing bonfires, hosting feasts and decorating their homes.

Early Celebrations

Celebrating the rebirth of the sun can be seen in other cultures throughout history. While these typically took place during the coldest, darkest days of the year, winter solstice traditions were celebrations that gave people hope sunny days lay ahead.

Egyptians celebrated the return of Ra, god of the sun, on a daily basis. Ancient Greeks held a similar festival called Lenaea. The Roman Empire held Saturnalia celebrations. Scandinavia's Norsemen called the holiday “Yule.”  Families would light Yule logs where they would eat until the log burned out – which could take up to 12 days. Each spark was believed to represent a new pig or calf that would be born in the new year.

Germanic peoples would celebrate the winter festival by honoring the pagan god Odin. Many believed he would fly through the night sky (on a magical flying horse) and determine who would be blessed or cursed in the coming year. Many decided to stay indoors, fearing Odin’s wrath.

Relation to Christmas

Originally the Christian calendar focused on Easter. It was only in the fourth century that the church decided Jesus Christ’s birthday should be celebrated. Since the Bible did not point to an exact date when Christ was born, Pope Julius I chose Dec. 25. It’s commonly believed that the church chose the date in an effort to replace the Roman Saturnalia with the Christian holiday.

"As the Christmas celebration moved west," Harry Yeide, a professor of religion at George Washington University told National Geographic. "The date that had traditionally been used to celebrate the winter solstice became sort of available for conversion to the observance of Christmas. In the Western church, the December date became the date for Christmas."

Besides the date, Christian leaders found ways to relate the pagan holiday to the Christian one.

"This gave rise to an interesting play on words," Yeide said. "In several languages, not just in English, people have traditionally compared the rebirth of the sun with the birth of the son of God."

Christmas traditions including dinner feasts, gift-giving, and decorative wreaths can be traced back to winter solstice rituals. For instance, for the Celtic druids, mistletoe was a sacred plant  called “All Heal.” Priests would cut the plant from the tree, hold a feast and sacrifice animals underneath it. Mistletoe was believed to cure illnesses, serve as an antidote for poisons, ensure fertility and protect against witchcraft. Some people would hang it from their doorways or rooms to offer goodwill to visitors.

Ancient Romans would decorate their homes with holly during winter solstice. Holly wreaths were given as gifts and used as decoration in public areas and in homes to honor the sun god Saturn. Ancient Celts would have similar traditions. Many would plant holly in their homes as a form of protection since the plants was believed to hold magical powers for its ability to survive the winter months.

Modern Festivities

For Wiccans and Druids, Yule is one of the eight solar holidays celebrated each year. Wiccans see Yule as a time to spend with friends and family, exchange gifts and honor the sun. Homes are decorated with red, green and white decorations – colors that hark back to Druidic traditions.

Some Wiccans welcome the new solar year with light. Rituals can include meditating in darkness with lit candles, singing pagan carols and lighting Yule logs (either in indoor fireplaces or outdoor bonfires).

Wiccan priestess Selena Fox suggests decorating an evergreen wreath with holiday herbs and mounting it on the front door to celebrate the continuity of life. Evergreen trees can be decorated as well with holiday decorations and pagan symbols. “Call it a Solstice tree,” Fox said in a blog post about winter solstice traditions.

Druids typically celebrate the holiday at Stonehenge in England. Last year 3,500 visitors watched the sun rise and watched how it cast a line that directly connects the altar stone, the slaughter stone and heel stone. Similar celebrations take place at other ancient sites such as Newgrange in Ireland and the Cerro del Gentil pyramid in Peru.

 

 

On "Druids" - "Pagans"

 

http://www.pagancentric.org/pagans-and-saint-patricks-day/

 

Ever one to ruin the fun, I couldn’t let today go by without making a few comments about Saint Patrick and the annual holiday that’s held in his honor. Most of the people I know will be wearing green in some form today, thinking of all things Irish, drinking green beer, and possibly honoring that ancient Irish tradition of getting drunk and fighting. In other words, Saint Patrick’s day is a good excuse for partying, and few people will put any more thought into it than that. That’s fine. It’s a secular holiday in the United States, even if the day is named after a Catholic bishop and missionary, and so it should all be taken with a grain of salt. Go forth and party. Have a good time. Build for yourself the pending hangover of the gods. That’s what it’s all about, right?

If most people know anything about Saint Patrick, it’s that his one claim to fame is that he drove the snakes from Ireland. What most people don’t realize is that the snake is a Pagan symbol, and that the snakes referred to in the Saint Patrick mythos are not meant in the literal sense, but refer to Pagans; i.e., Saint Patrick drove the Pagans (specifically, the Celts) out of Ireland (although it could be said, and has been argued, that much has been done in Saint Patrick’s name, but that the man himself was relatively unimportant). So what is celebrated on Saint Patrick’s Day with drinking and much cavorting is, ironically, the spread of Christianity throughout Ireland and the subjugation and conversion of the Celts.

I have a perspective on Saint Patrick that most Americans do not. If you don’t know already, my surname is Mulkieran. That surname is associated with the parish of Clonkennkerrill near the small modern village of Gurteen, in Galway. It was first recorded in the early 11th Century, and other early recordings include Maelisa O’Mulkieran who died in 1197. My mother was a passionate genealogist, who traced our family farther back than that. So you might say that my Irish bonafides have been well established.

I mention this for no other reason than to be able to point out that my perception of Saint Patrick when I was growing up was vastly different from the popular secular view. My mother was a seventh generation hereditary witch, from a long line of women who rejected the Christian tradition of assuming the names of their husbands and kept her family name. There’s not a hyphen among the seven women who preceded me, and each one of them passed down the Pagan traditions which I hold dear today. Among these was a distaste for Saint Patrick (to say the least – my grandmother would spit at the mention of his name), who my family saw as a Christian invader, a missionary who was instrumental in the subjugation of the Irish isle to the Christian church (and who, worst of all, wasn’t even Irish).

It wasn’t arbitrary that the day honoring Saint Patrick was placed on the 17th of March. The festival was designed to coincide, and, it was hoped, to replace the Pagan holiday known as Ostara; the second spring festival which occurs each year, which celebrates the rebirth of nature, the balance of the universe when the day and night are equal in length, and which takes place at the Spring Equinox (March 22nd this year). In other words, Saint Patrick’s Day is yet another Christian replacement for a much older, ancient Pagan holiday; although generally speaking Ostara was most prominently replaced by the Christian celebration of Easter (the eggs and the bunny come from Ostara traditions, and the name “Easter” comes from the Pagan goddess Eostre).

I don’t celebrate Saint Patrick’s Day. I don’t begrudge those who do, and it doesn’t bother me that a lot of my friends will be drinking green beer and wearing buttons that say “Kiss me, I’m Irish”. Saint Patrick’s day in practice has become a secular holiday, much like Christmas, that has only the vaguest hints of its religious underpinnings still intact. So if you want to drink green beer and act like an idiot, please do. It won’t bother me in the slightest.

I actually strike quite a figure on Saint Patrick’s day. When nearly everyone else is wearing green in some fashion, I usually wear red and black, in various degrees and styles. For me, the red represents the blood of my ancestors, who were driven out of Ireland or were subjugated by any one of many zealous Christian missionaries. The black is for the darkness that fell over the world with the rise and dominance of the Christian church and the forced installation of patriarchy that replaced the ancient reverence for the feminine divine.

The only green I wear on Saint Patrick’s Day is a pendant that was handed down from my great-grandmother. It’s an oak leaf made of silver, the leaves of which are inlaid with emeralds. Family tradition holds that the gems were brought over from Ireland when the family came to America in the mid 1800’s, and before that were passed down through the generations for centuries.

The significance of the oak leaf should be obvious to most Pagans. Greeks worshipped the oak as it was sacred to Zeus. It was a crime to fell an oak tree in Pagan Ireland. The ancient Celts wouldn’t meet unless an oak tree was present. The old expression “knock on wood” comes from the Celts, who believed in tree spirits. Both the Greeks and the Celts believed touching sacred trees would bring good fortune. They would knock on the oak tree to say hello to the tree spirit. And my family tradition holds that an oak leaf worn at the breast, touching the heart, will protect the wearer from all deception and the world’s false glamour. Oaks are protectors, and to me they represent strength and renewal; that spark of the old ways that can never be fully stamped out by Christianity, and which keep popping up in the least expected places.

Why not wear a shamrock? Simple. Legend credits Saint Patrick with teaching the Irish about the concept of the Christian Trinity by showing people the shamrock, using it to highlight the Christian belief of “three divine persons in the one God”. Wearing a shamrock to me is tantamount to wearing a Christian cross. I don’t begrudge those who do, but I know the meaning behind it, and I can’t follow you there. You might as well ask a Jew to wear a swastika.

In closing, all I’ll say is that instead of celebrating Saint Patrick’s Day, I’ll be looking forward to Ostara. It’s usually about this time of year that I feel the first stirrings of Spring in the air, and it really begins to feel like the Earth around me is beginning to reawaken from its long sleep. You’ll see it in the step of every young person you see, as their bodies respond to the marshaling of energies and their hormones start raging. The Wheel of the Year keeps turning, and this time of the year is all about renewal. It’s the reason we all find ourselves flirting shamelessly with one another.

If I’ll be celebrating anything on Saint Patrick’s Day, it’s that my world is passing from Winter into Spring. Flowers will soon be popping into existence all around me. And there’s no better time of the year that you can feel so alive. I’d much rather celebrate that than the subjugation and extermination of Pagans in Ireland.

 

http://fsos.com/celtic_history.htm

 

General Celtic Info

The Celts dominated Mid and Western Europe for a thousand years. But it is only recently that the importance of Celtic influence on the cultural, linguistic and artistic development of Europe. The Celts as an identifiable race or ethnic group have long since disappeared, except in places such as Ireland and the Scottish Highlands.

The Celts transmitted their culture orally, never writing down history or facts. This accounts for the extreme lack of knowledge about them prior to their contact with the classical civilizations of Greece and Rome. They were generally well educated, particularly on topics such as religion, philosophy, geography and astronomy. The Romans often employed Celtic tutors for their sons.

The bravery of the Celts in battle is legendary. They often spurned body armor, going naked into battle. Celtic society was typically more equal in terms of gender roles. Women were on more or less equal footing as men, being accomplished warriors, merchants and rulers.

 

If one follows the trail of Druidic, Pagan also know as Celtic culture (as was well organized in "The Irish Origins of Civilization") on sees that Druidic knowledge flowed from the old Irish Isles all the way to China. One of the Dynasties that that knowledge created in Egypt was at some point lead by a "Pharaoh" that decided he did not like the teachings and began destroying them.. Upon his eventual defeat he returned to the "Mother land" of Ireland and upon realizing these people of origin did not approve of his actions he set up shop as it where in the U.K. as we now call it and sent out raiding parties to destroy them.. lead by his General in these matters St. Patrick.

 

What ever negative things you have heard about the Celts (ie. he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits) just remember that those tails were told by the same intellects that run the world today, the banks the media and the governments.
 

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