To DinarThug

[nerd]

Since I can no longer post anywhere but here:

Sorry Nerd But Ur Argument Doesn't Work Since They Already Did A Massive Devaluation Nearly A Decade Ago And Everyone That Was Holding Cash Back Then Took A Massive Haircut.

What About The Guy That Sold His Camel The Day Before And Then 24 Hours Later His Money Was Worth Only A Fraction Of What He Received ?

It Didn't Stop The Gov't Then. So Why Would They Give A Rats Tail About The Little Guy Now ?

First, what is with this every word starting with a capital deal?

Second, can you not make your case without insults? Maybe you don't have a case to make in the first place. I mean why resrt to this nonsense if there are good arguments to support your position?

Lastly it is absolutely false that the dinar was "devalued nearly a decade ago". Check the CBI history page, or any currency site that offers rate histories. The dinar was massively inflated between the late 80s and the mid/late 90s. For sure that would really be bad if you were holding cash over that whole period, but it was not overnight. Since it was slow people could easily adjust by just buying stuff they later would sell. That is a pain for sure but its doable. Sure Saddam did not care about the impact to his people, one might hope the current government cares a bit more. Plus doing a RV overnight would result in massive violence by the have-nots trying to take from the haves. That did not happen with the much much slower hyperinflation

[simon8957]

Since I can no longer post anywhere but here:

First, what is with this every word starting with a capital deal?

Second, can you not make your case without insults? Maybe you don't have a case to make in the first place. I mean why resrt to this nonsense if there are good arguments to support your position?

Lastly it is absolutely false that the dinar was "devalued nearly a decade ago". Check the CBI history page, or any currency site that offers rate histories. The dinar was massively inflated between the late 80s and the mid/late 90s. For sure that would really be bad if you were holding cash over that whole period, but it was not overnight. Since it was slow people could easily adjust by just buying stuff they later would sell. That is a pain for sure but its doable. Sure Saddam did not care about the impact to his people, one might hope the current government cares a bit more. Plus doing a RV overnight would result in massive violence by the have-nots trying to take from the haves. That did not happen with the much much slower hyperinflation

Did someone have a bad day??....Take a deep breath let it out slow, it will be ok. If not..... well that was just pretty rude and hateful.

[nerd]

Did someone have a bad day??....Take a deep breath let it out slow, it will be ok. If not..... well that was just pretty rude and hateful.

I really don't get it. Please point out exactly where I was rude or hateful. Seriously, please show me. Compare that to Thug's post (in the chat logs forum), wasn't that rude? More importantly (if this site is actually about gaining knowledge on the dinar) his post is factually wrong passing on the classic RV myth that the dinar was "devalued" all at once. It never happened.

[captl1]

Sometimes silence is truly golden...

[TonyDownTheShore]

Lastly it is absolutely false that the dinar was "devalued nearly a decade ago"

Before the war the dinar was worth $3.22 dollar to one dinar and now you need 1166 dinar to $1.00 dollar, if that's not a devalue I don't know what is.

[WorkerBee]

I really don't get it. Please point out exactly where I was rude or hateful. Seriously, please show me. Compare that to Thug's post (in the chat logs forum), wasn't that rude? More importantly (if this site is actually about gaining knowledge on the dinar) his post is factually wrong passing on the classic RV myth that the dinar was "devalued" all at once. It never happened.

It’s the nature of the beast. Haters gonna hate. No matter how nice and polite your argument is. What I don’t understand is why even though they say they understand a RD can happen, why do they not want to discuss it. I say explore both sides evenly and openly.

[nerd]

Lastly it is absolutely false that the dinar was "devalued nearly a decade ago"

Before the war the dinar was worth $3.22 dollar to one dinar and now you need 1166 dinar to $1.00 dollar, if that's not a devalue I don't know what is.

What war? Saddam's invasion of Kuwait in 1990? Maybe (the black market rate might be more accurate here). The US invasion of Iraq in 2003? No way, it was already at 3000 IQD per dinar by 1995. From cbi.iq (and verifiable in other places)

A 5 percent devaluation reduced the value of the dinar to US$3.2169, the official rate which remained until the Gulf War, although in late 1989, the black market rate was reported to be 1.86 dinars for US$1.

1990 - 2003

After the Gulf War in 1991, and due to the economic blockade, the previously used Swiss printing technology was no longer available. A new, inferior quality notes issue was produced. The previous issue became known as the Swiss dinar and continued to circulate in the Kurdish region of Iraq. Due to excessive government printing of the new notes issue, the dinar devalued quickly, and in late 1995, US$1 was valued at 3,000 dinars.

It’s the nature of the beast. Haters gonna hate. No matter how nice and polite your argument is. What I don’t understand is why even though they say they understand a RD can happen, why do they not want to discuss it. I say explore both sides evenly and openly.

Thanks Bee, if only others were as reasonable.

[Markinsa]

For arguments sake, let's say they're going to LOP.

I spent $25 and bought a 25000 Dinar Note. If the CBI Lops, I'll end up with a dinar note worth $25 and I've lost nothing. I break even.

Now let's say, they don't LOP and RV at 1:1. I now have a Dinar note worth $25,000, and I've just made a $24,975 profit. So it would seem to me that the Loppers are doing more harm than good. They think they're saving everyone but in reality they'll hurt the people they convinced not to invest or sell out, if they are wrong.

-

[umbertino]

Did someone have a bad day??....Take a deep breath let it out slow, it will be ok. If not..... well that was just pretty rude and hateful.

Those who negged him apparently had a bad day.

It’s the nature of the beast. Haters gonna hate. No matter how nice and polite your argument is. What I don’t understand is why even though they say they understand a RD can happen, why do they not want to discuss it. I say explore both sides evenly and openly.

Thanks.

[TonyDownTheShore]

What war? Saddam's invasion of Kuwait in 1990? Maybe (the black market rate might be more accurate here). The US invasion of Iraq in 2003? No way, it was already at 3000 IQD per dinar by 1995. From cbi.iq (and verifiable in other places)

As you can see, there was a major devaluation

1986–20031986–2003 between .33 cents to 1.32 to a dollar

http://www.edinarfinancial.net/history.php

Edited August 2, 2012 by TonyDownTheShore

[JWJW11]

For arguments sake, let's say they're going to LOP.

I spent $25 and bought a 25000 Dinar Note. If the CBI Lops, I'll end up with a dinar note worth $25 and I've lost nothing. I break even.

Now let's say, they don't LOP and RV at 1:1. I now have a Dinar note worth $25,000, and I've just made a $24,975 profit. So it would seem to me that the Loppers are doing more harm than good. They think they're saving everyone but in reality they'll hurt the people they convinced not to invest or sell out, if they are wrong.

-

Exactly Markinsa....what's the big deal anyway.....you can't loose to bad in this thing.....and possibility is awesome! I really hate seeing these guys run off good people all the time.....you know that have convinced many to sell....and that sucks

[rightsonword]

It’s the nature of the beast. Haters gonna hate. No matter how nice and polite your argument is. What I don’t understand is why even though they say they understand a RD can happen, why do they not want to discuss it. I say explore both sides evenly and openly.

Because it's been argued 350937425809327509342705 times. It gets old.

[WorkerBee]

For arguments sake, let's say they're going to LOP.

I spent $25 and bought a 25000 Dinar Note. If the CBI Lops, I'll end up with a dinar note worth $25 and I've lost nothing. I break even.

Now let's say, they don't LOP and RV at 1:1. I now have a Dinar note worth $25,000, and I've just made a $24,975 profit. So it would seem to me that the Loppers are doing more harm than good. They think they're saving everyone but in reality they'll hurt the people they convinced not to invest or sell out, if they are wrong.

-

And the opposite of that argument is, pumpers who convince people to purchase more and then Iraq straight up lops with an in country exchange only. that is a loss unless you can find a way to exchange your dinar. This scenario will cause a lot of people to lose money and why both sides need to be presented openly.

[nerd]

For arguments sake, let's say they're going to LOP.

So (quoting Adam when I used the same phrase) you're only here to argue, I guess you should be restricted to LOPtalk! :lol: (just joking)

I spent $25 and bought a 25000 Dinar Note. If the CBI Lops, I'll end up with a dinar note worth $25 and I've lost nothing. I break even.

Now let's say, they don't LOP and RV at 1:1. I now have a Dinar note worth $25,000, and I've just made a $24,975 profit. So it would seem to me that the Loppers are doing more harm than good. They think they're saving everyone but in reality they'll hurt the people they convinced not to invest or sell out, if they are wrong.

First very few paid $25 for a 25000 IQD note. Most folks likely paid more like $35 or more (with fees, shipping, wire transfer charges, etc). When it LOPs, or if it doesn't the dealers will be happy to change your IQD for NID or back to dollars for yet another 50% spread so you are likely to lose at least 30-40% of your money. That is if you manage to exchange before the dealers pack up and leave town. If you wait till after that and still have IQD 2 or 3 years from now you very likely will lose everything as no one outside of Iraq will take it.

Secondly, an RV of 1000:1 is IMPOSSIBLE. I know you and many want to think otherwise, but you have been conned.

[umbertino]

Because it's been argued 350937425809327509342705 times. It gets old.

You mean like the fabulous Gurus "Intel" going on every single day of the year?

FYI..I didn't neg you.. I never neg anyone as a personal rule.

Edited August 2, 2012 by umbertino

[WorkerBee]

Because it's been argued 350937425809327509342705 times. It gets old.

So what? Let’s only explore one side?

[rightsonword]

And the opposite of that argument is, pumpers who convince people to purchase more and then Iraq straight up lops with an in country exchange only. that is a loss unless you can find a way to exchange your dinar. This scenario will cause a lot of people to lose money and why both sides need to be presented openly.

If the numerous numerous articles from financial blogs and news sources saying the IQD is a scam doesn't convince people that this is a risky investment, nothing will. We are all adults and adults make their own choices and live with the consequences, good or bad. There are tons of articles warning against the IQD.

let's not be internet white knights coming to save some seemingly helpless person.

[nerd]

As you can see, there was a major devaluation

1986–20031986–2003 between .33 cents to 1.32 to a dollar

I don't think you meant 1.32 since it hasn't been that high since 1990.

In any case the key point is that it was not "devaluated" all in one shot as Thug claims (i.e. the opposite of an overnight RV). It went from .33 IQD to 1 USD in 1989 to 3000 IQD to 1 USD in 1995 eight years before the war. So that's over 5 or 6 years and was not due to the CBI/GOI/US/UN/whoever declaring it to be so but due to Saddam printing 10s of trillions of dinars and spending his reserves. That sucks for the Iraqi's but they would have time to adjust. Printing too many dinars is why the rate is what it is today, not do to some proclimation.

[rightsonword]

So what? Let’s only explore one side?

Both sides have been explored countless numbers of times with the SAME information and arguments beings made again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again . . . .

And typically, the same arguments and debates are brought up and debated by the same people, lopster or RVr.

There is plenty of information on this website and other websites that warn about a LOP and losing money. People can discuss all they want, but to play down someone's ability to understand a concept or their intellect simply because they don't agree on something is tacky and childish.

[WorkerBee]

If the numerous numerous articles from financial blogs and news sources saying the IQD is a scam doesn't convince people that this is a risky investment, nothing will. We are all adults and adults make their own choices and live with the consequences, good or bad. There are tons of articles warning against the IQD.

let's not be internet white knights coming to save some seemingly helpless person.

Exactly. If we are all adults here, why does it hurt to explore all possibilities?

[rightsonword]

It doesn't and debate is good. But not when it simply turns into name-calling and when people parrot the same things over and over again simply to get a rise out of people and then to say "Derp, they refuse or can't comprehend X idea, they're stupid, hahahahaha." Let alone the illogical fallacy that if someone refuses to accept a definitive outcome than that person somehow can't or doesn't comprehend the possibility of said outcome.

[Markinsa]

So (quoting Adam when I used the same phrase) you're only here to argue, I guess you should be restricted to LOPtalk! (just joking)

First very few paid $25 for a 25000 IQD note. Most folks likely paid more like $35 or more (with fees, shipping, wire transfer charges, etc). When it LOPs, or if it doesn't the dealers will be happy to change your IQD for NID or back to dollars for yet another 50% spread so you are likely to lose at least 30-40% of your money. That is if you manage to exchange before the dealers pack up and leave town. If you wait till after that and still have IQD 2 or 3 years from now you very likely will lose everything as no one outside of Iraq will take it.

Secondly, an RV of 1000:1 is IMPOSSIBLE. I know you and many want to think otherwise, but you have been conned.

Do you know the future? You are not God, so to say "Impossible" is wrong on your part. Now, you can say "Highly Unlikely in your Opinion", but to say "Impossible" is an incorrect statement.

Also, I think your spread numbers maybe a little too high. Unless, those are your numbers, then yeah you got suckered.

-

[nerd]

Do you know the future? You are not God, so to say "Impossible" is wrong on your part. Now, you can say "Highly Unlikely in your Opinion", but to say "Impossible" is an incorrect statement.

Might we swim to the moon one day or is that impossible? does 2+2=4000 or 4? that is the sort of thing in play here. It isn't opinion its just arithmetic. If we talking about whether a currency will go up or down 0.1% against another, then sure no one knows (that's how currency traders make and lose money, one thinks it will go one way and one thinks it will go the other). An RV of 10% or 20% is very very unlikely but not impossible. An RV of 100,000% is impossible.

Also, I think your spread numbers maybe a little too high. Unless, those are your numbers, then yeah you got suckered.

Yea I flubbed the numbers there, I think many (including me) paid 1100-1200/M so that's more like a 20-30% spread compared to teh official 860/M price, not a 50% spread that someone I had in my head. Thanks for the correction. Edited August 2, 2012 by nerd

[BigFrankD]

For arguments sake, let's say they're going to LOP.

I spent $25 and bought a 25000 Dinar Note. If the CBI Lops, I'll end up with a dinar note worth $25 and I've lost nothing. I break even.

Now let's say, they don't LOP and RV at 1:1. I now have a Dinar note worth $25,000, and I've just made a $24,975 profit. So it would seem to me that the Loppers are doing more harm than good. They think they're saving everyone but in reality they'll hurt the people they convinced not to invest or sell out, if they are wrong.

-

1. If youve been told you'll break even with a lop, you've been lied to. Most dinar holders will lose at least 50%.

2. What if the people that sell their dinar use it to buy google stock and google stock goes up 100,000%? You'd hav hurt the people you convinced to stay in dinar, I guess.

The chance of a massive RV (and by massive I mean 1 cent plus) is not 50/50. It's not 1 in a hundred. It's not one in a million. It's zero.

[dinarck]

Might we swim to the moon one day or is that impossible? does 2+2=4000 or 4? that is the sort of thing in play here. It isn't opinion its just arithmetic. If we talking about whether a currency will go up or down 0.1% against another, then sure no one knows (that's how currency traders make and lose money, one thinks it will go one way and one thinks it will go the other). An RV of 10% or 20% is very very unlikely but not impossible. An RV of 100,000% is impossible.

Yea I flubbed the numbers there, I think many (including me) paid 1100-1200/M so that's more like a 20-30% spread compared to teh official 860/M price, not a 50% spread that someone I had in my head. Thanks for the correction.

Agree

1. If youve been told you'll break even with a lop, you've been lied to. Most dinar holders will lose at least 50%.

2. What if the people that sell their dinar use it to buy google stock and google stock goes up 100,000%? You'd hav hurt the people you convinced to stay in dinar, I guess.

The chance of a massive RV (and by massive I mean 1 cent plus) is not 50/50. It's not 1 in a hundred. It's not one in a million. It's zero.

Agree