Dinar as International Currency

[AustinMom]

I am on the fence with my opinions on the LOP/RD/RV of the Dinar. Most of the information I get about this process, I read on DV. I read other people's posts and try to educate myself. With that being said, I need help figuring out an aspect of this adventure.... Under Saddam, Iraq ended up owing many countries. My understanding is that many of these countries forgave Iraq's debts in exchange for dinar and/or oil credits. Iraq is trying to get to the point that they are able to be international players. From what I have seen in videos, Iraq is building malls, wanting vehicles, etc... I am just going to give this a term of getting "Westernized." Now, the problem that I see, if Iraq LOPs, does this action not throw mud in the faces of the many countries (US included) who forgave a great portion of the Iraq debt? How can Iraq be viewed as an international trading country, when they treat the prospective investors like this? Who will trust them and do business with them in the future? I just feel that making the LOP move will endanger Iraq's standing in the international community. I know they have oil, but I am more thinking about the McDonald's, Ford, Johnson and Johnson, etc..., not just the Exxon's.

I don't want this to turn into a pro-LOP - vs - pro-RV thread. I have read plenty of those. Please, someone help me to understand how Iraq could survive as an international player if they do LOP. Again, I don't really want arguing, just help me understand the process. Thank you in advance.

[billio0]

Hello AustinMom and welcome to the DV forum,

You are wise to remain on the fence as you put it regarding the eventual outcome of the IQD, since there is no one in the know willing to reveal the ultimate strategy to occur with that currency. Also, I commend you for explicitly defining your inquiry as one of seeking information rather than inviting another heated debate between the pro and anti-LOP camps here. I, just like you, belong in neither.

With that said, I must agree that it makes little sense for anyone to expect less value for their investment, and that includes both us as IQD investors and those countries who forgave some or all of Iraq's debt. This is the basis for my confidence in us ultimately netting a profit of some significance eventually, no matter what else happens inside the borders of Iraq.

My personal opinion has always been that what we are actually dealing with are two separate and distinct events; an in-country change in the value of their currency, and an international recognition of its value per the countries that shall retain the IQD as a reserve currency. Thus, in my opinion for example, we here in the USA don't really want to keep our IQD indefinitely, but hope to exchange it for good old USA dollars, which is our preferred currency of choice. In order to do this there must be a system in place here to accept our IQD and provide us those dollars at a predetermined value-of-exchange. Now, I don't pretend to know what that value will be, or who shall be responsible for setting it, be it the CBI or the USA Treasury. And, quite frankly I couldn't care less. All I really actually do care about is getting a value at least equal to what I have invested thus far, and certainly hopefully much, much more. That is the nature of all investments, by the way.

When you see those here on the DV forums pounding into us the so-called FACT that the IQD MUST LOP, they are basing their theory on many things, the least of which is what the CBI has actually publicly stated. Whether their theory has merit or not is less important than why they would come here to begin with, and what their motivations truly are. Certainly, if they are proponents of a profitable outcome to our investment, any viewpoint that is counter to that is meaningless, that is unless they have another agenda altogether. I shall not begin to speculate what that agenda might be, but I will say that they definitely add nothing to my daily visits to DV, and that is all I am willing to say on that subject. Nonetheless, I respect everyone's viewpoint here, including theirs.

Thus, I believe the key for us is to narrow our focus in the next few weeks and months less on what is happening or suppose to happen politically and otherwise as it pertains to the Dinar inside Iraq, and pay closer attention to those clues that occasionally surface that hint at what the larger community of countries are doing and planning with regard to Iraq. This is where I think we will find our answers.

Hopefully, I have shed a little light on your questions.

As always, bashers and LOPsters, you have my permission to tear this apart any way you see fit.

Thank you all DV members and guests who chose to read this!

[SWFloridaGuy]

Awesome thread so far. Thanks to AustinMom and Billio0 for showing everyone how this forum could be and what is possible when we communicate with eachother in a respectful manner. Cheers to you both.

Edited July 7, 2012 by SWFloridaGuy

[utvolfan]

I feel that Billio0 is ignoring a very important fact. The dinar can go through the lop/RD/RV process and VALUE WILL BE ADDED TO THE CURRENCY. What was once worth 1/10 of a penny is now worth 1 USD.

A lop does NOT represent a decrease in value. It represents a decrease in the amount of currency in circulation that ACTUALLY ALLOWS AN INCREASE IN VALUE.

Once you understand what a lop does then it becomes easier to see what the CBI is trying to do.

Unfortunately, every person in the world that holds dinar will have their quantity reduced by 1000 times. Accordingly, there will not be a big pay day. If you hold your dinar after the lop/RD/RV process you may be able to see some small profit, provided that there is a long enough time allowed before you have to cash in.

[hame55]

I am on the fence with my opinions on the LOP/RD/RV of the Dinar. Most of the information I get about this process, I read on DV. I read other people's posts and try to educate myself. With that being said, I need help figuring out an aspect of this adventure.... Under Saddam, Iraq ended up owing many countries. My understanding is that many of these countries forgave Iraq's debts in exchange for dinar and/or oil credits. Iraq is trying to get to the point that they are able to be international players. From what I have seen in videos, Iraq is building malls, wanting vehicles, etc... I am just going to give this a term of getting "Westernized." Now, the problem that I see, if Iraq LOPs, does this action not throw mud in the faces of the many countries (US included) who forgave a great portion of the Iraq debt? How can Iraq be viewed as an international trading country, when they treat the prospective investors like this? Who will trust them and do business with them in the future? I just feel that making the LOP move will endanger Iraq's standing in the international community. I know they have oil, but I am more thinking about the McDonald's, Ford, Johnson and Johnson, etc..., not just the Exxon's.

I don't want this to turn into a pro-LOP - vs - pro-RV thread. I have read plenty of those. Please, someone help me to understand how Iraq could survive as an international player if they do LOP. Again, I don't really want arguing, just help me understand the process. Thank you in advance.

Very nice post - the best I can do is ask the question I have asked earlier of the better heads in here, a question that was never answered: the value of this currency has gone way down. For it to LOP then RV, that would be a neutral event plus 3-4 times revaluation. So the avg. Iraqi perceives a 1000 X loss, and a 4X gain. This may work economically, but it angers them, just as an LOP would anger international investors. The question is, how much has the dinar really lost in the past, and how much must it regain to be international currency again? That is the question.

I don't think 3-4X is enough to regain its loss.

I don't think Iraq will be ABLE or even want to thumb its nose at international investors or the WB or IMF or multinational corporations, given its debt forgiveness and vulnerable position in Chap 7.

You may argue that there will be an LOP and that big investors are OK with a 3-4X return on their money, given that they have invested much more into this - this seems the most likely case for the LOP crowd, if there are trillions in circulation. This seems, I hate to say, plausible.

Iraq will have trust in business community because big investors, and sovereign nations looking to get a piece of the pie never expected thousands of times returns - just a long term, high stakes place at the table for oil and gold, etc.

I also have a hard time seeing so many little people become millionaires (though I like it) in this currency game given it has never happened before.

So I'm still on the fence too for LOP.

Hope this helps. GO RV

[doctor robbins]

I am on the fence with my opinions on the LOP/RD/RV of the Dinar. Most of the information I get about this process, I read on DV. I read other people's posts and try to educate myself. With that being said, I need help figuring out an aspect of this adventure.... Under Saddam, Iraq ended up owing many countries. My understanding is that many of these countries forgave Iraq's debts in exchange for dinar and/or oil credits. Iraq is trying to get to the point that they are able to be international players. From what I have seen in videos, Iraq is building malls, wanting vehicles, etc... I am just going to give this a term of getting "Westernized." Now, the problem that I see, if Iraq LOPs, does this action not throw mud in the faces of the many countries (US included) who forgave a great portion of the Iraq debt? How can Iraq be viewed as an international trading country, when they treat the prospective investors like this? Who will trust them and do business with them in the future? I just feel that making the LOP move will endanger Iraq's standing in the international community. I know they have oil, but I am more thinking about the McDonald's, Ford, Johnson and Johnson, etc..., not just the Exxon's.

I don't want this to turn into a pro-LOP - vs - pro-RV thread. I have read plenty of those. Please, someone help me to understand how Iraq could survive as an international player if they do LOP. Again, I don't really want arguing, just help me understand the process. Thank you in advance.

Excellent question. The first problem I see is that you apparently have been led to believe that there was some sort of quid pro quo in the debt forgiveness. There's no evidence of that. If there was some arrangement to that effect you would expect the offended parties to protest Iraq's announcement of a redenomination, but none have. If your premise is true then your point would be valid, but if it's not the case there would be no reason to assume a breach of trust on Iraq's part. The second problem is your linkage of revaluation and becoming an international player. Other nations with a low valued currency are international players and other countries who have lopped are international players. Brazil recently surpassed the UK as the fifth largest economy in the world. They have redenominated several times over the years. Russia has redenominated too, as well as Romania, Ukraine, Argentina ... etc. There's no real stigma attached to redenomination or to a low valued currency like Japan or South Korea. The reason for lopping is simply logistical in nature.

Edited July 7, 2012 by doctor robbins

[billio0]

I feel that Billio0 is ignoring a very important fact. The dinar can go through the lop/RD/RV process and VALUE WILL BE ADDED TO THE CURRENCY. What was once worth 1/10 of a penny is now worth 1 USD.

A lop does NOT represent a decrease in value. It represents a decrease in the amount of currency in circulation that ACTUALLY ALLOWS AN INCREASE IN VALUE.

Once you understand what a lop does then it becomes easier to see what the CBI is trying to do.

Unfortunately, every person in the world that holds dinar will have their quantity reduced by 1000 times. Accordingly, there will not be a big pay day. If you hold your dinar after the lop/RD/RV process you may be able to see some small profit, provided that there is a long enough time allowed before you have to cash in.

I first offer my apology to AustinMom, since it is apparent that once again there are those "hell bent" on proclaiming to the rooftops that we absolutely must lose money in our IQD investment, and shall NEVER see much of a profit, if ever.

Although you plainly asked that this NOT be the case, it has unfortunately devolved into just such a thread. The structure of DinarVets as determined by Adam Montana provides for all viewpoints including the naysayers too, which is both good and in some instances not so good.

Now, to address UTVOLFAN's comment about me; at no time have I said anything here of anywhere else for or against a LOP, and whether it adds or subtracts from the value of the IQD. Yet, this member INSISTS upon repeatedly misquoting me for reasons that can only be deemed as a personal attack, which I now declare is offensive to me in every way possible. As such, I would ask that the MODs here either forbid any member from making false accusations and claims against another member, and/or ban such member from further posting privileges.

As I said many times before, this is suppose to be a place for Dinar Veterans to express their opinions, viewpoints, and any credible information they may have about our investment in Iraqi Dinar. If I have somehow erred in this assumption, please accept my apology.

Thank you!

[easyrider]

I first offer my apology to AustinMom, since it is apparent that once again there are those "hell bent" on proclaiming to the rooftops that we absolutely must lose money in our IQD investment, and shall NEVER see much of a profit, if ever.

Although you plainly asked that this NOT be the case, it has unfortunately devolved into just such a thread. The structure of DinarVets as determined by Adam Montana provides for all viewpoints including the naysayers too, which is both good and in some instances not so good.

Now, to address UTVOLFAN's comment about me; at no time have I said anything here of anywhere else for or against a LOP, and whether it adds or subtracts from the value of the IQD. Yet, this member INSISTS upon repeatedly misquoting me for reasons that can only be deemed as a personal attack, which I now declare is offensive to me in every way possible. As such, I would ask that the MODs here either forbid any member from making false accusations and claims against another member, and/or ban such member from further posting privileges.

As I said many times before, this is suppose to be a place for Dinar Veterans to express their opinions, viewpoints, and any credible information they may have about our investment in Iraqi Dinar. If I have somehow erred in this assumption, please accept my apology.

Thank you!

I would just put them on ignore i have came to realization its pointless to argue back and forth with these guys/ gals. UTVOLFAN is just under a new alias name he or she is a former lopster, yet its the same story day in and day out they are here to make a small profit on the dinar or break even LOl they dare dont wanna a los of a few hundred bucks and completely be gone from the forum like i said it makes no sense to argue with them.. Good luck.

[billio0]

Excellent question. The first problem I see is that you apparently have been led to believe that there was some sort of quid pro quo in the debt forgiveness. There's no evidence of that. If there was some arrangement to that effect you would expect the offended parties to protest Iraq's announcement of a redenomination, but none have. If your premise is true then your point would be valid, but if it's not the case there would be no reason to assume a breach of trust on Iraq's part. The second problem is your linkage of revaluation and becoming an international player. Other nations with a low valued currency are international players and other countries who have lopped are international players. Brazil recently surpassed the UK as the fifth largest economy in the world. They have redenominated several times over the years. Russia has redenominated too, as well as Romania, Ukraine, Argentina ... etc. There's no real stigma attached to redenomination or to a low valued currency like Japan or South Korea. The reason for lopping is simply logistical in nature.

Hello DOCTOR ROBBINS,

I agree with your assessment of the apparent presumptions presented by AustinMom, and how such presumptions could lead to incorrect conclusions. Yet, her reasons for doing so are probably rooted in why most of us IQD investors got involved in the first place. We learned that Iraq had their currency devalued during the war as a military strategy to prevent them from mounting an effective offensive again the US-led Coalition. We also learned that although at the time Iraq was listed as a terrorist country banned from conducting international business, an Executive Order had granted US citizens the right to legally purchase the currency that replaced that of the Saddam-era currency, which is what we effective refer to as IQD. And, most importantly, we drew conclusions from this that it could be an effective means for profit, either small or large, if we acquired it and were patient while waiting for a corresponding change in its value.

Since that time we all have endured a multitude of scenarios postulated by a host of characters who continually come and go, rise and fall, as we continue to wait for some eventuality to occur. Whether your facts add clarity or not to the discussion, and point us to the actual outcome to occur, I have not a clue. But, what i will say is that there has never been a situation quite like that of Iraq, and as a consequence, there is nothing any of us could say or pre-suppose about it that is any more correct than another.

We all wait, and we all guess. That is the nature of this investment, and to get all hot and bothered about one viewpoint over another quite honestly is foolishness personified. Thus, I commend you for providing us here some of the recent events of other countries, and how they may provide us a glimpse of the future of the IQD.

Thank you.

[billio0]

I would just put them on ignore i have came to realization its pointless to argue back and forth with these guys/ gals. UTVOLFAN is just under a new alias name he or she is a former lopster, yet its the same story day in and day out they are here to make a small profit on the dinar or break even LOl they dare dont wanna a los of a few hundred bucks and completely be gone from the forum like i said it makes no sense to argue with them.. Good luck.

Thanks EASY.

I agree, and am well aware of their tactics having been around here as long as I have. But, as you, SWFloridaGuy, Thug, Papster, and so many other excellent DV members (including those I fail to mention here because of time constraints) have done and continue to do is provide us all with consistently good reports of what is going on with our investment, while remaining vigilant to their attacks and presenting counter-points to them. As such, I am encouraged by all your efforts in that regard, and occasionally join end just to give you guys a break.

Please, keep up the good work, and hopefully soon we can all celebrate the end of this joy ride that has been anything but joyful.

[utvolfan]

Billio0,

Yesterday you said that the reason that you spectulated in the dinar was because you believed that the Paris Club Agreement that forgave 80% debt owed by Iraq had to have some other agreement that would allow the dinar to increase in value and would make all the people holding dinar a big profit. You also stated that the CBI had the intent to make the dinar a reserve currency.

First, your conclusion that there is some other agreement beyond the Paris Club Agreement is purely conjecture on your part. I posted a copy of the Paris Club Agreement, and of course you did not reply, because your conjecture would lose any debate to the FACTS of the agreement. Yes, the CBI has stated that they desire the dinar to become a reserve currency. But they can become a reserve currency even if they lop. In fact, their currency will rise in value more quickly if they do lop. I pointed this out to you yesterday, also. But you chose not to reply.

It is hard to counter the facts with your rumors and conjecture, right?

So, because I make valid points against your rumors and conjecture you consider it a "personal attack" and cry to the mods for relief. I have never said that a profit will not be realized from this spectulation. The chance of making a small profit exists after the lop/RD/RV if the dinar continues to rise in value.

You are a pumper. I will follow your posts where ever you go and counter your rumors and conjecture with facts. You may not like it, but you WILL learn to love it.

Even though Easy thinks I am the reincarnation of someone else, he is wrong. BUT he did teach me that if I get banned, I can always come back as someone else. Because of that, I will continue to be there after every one of your posts that has no credibility. When you can bring something to the table other than rumors and conjecture then you will no longer be a pumper.

[WorkerBee]

I don't think Iraq would have been able to climb out of the hole they were in and move forward with commerce unless the debt had been forgiven. They now have the ability to modernize their infrastructure and create jobs for their citizens. As an emerging market (is that the right term?) they are more attractive to other countries and companies to do business with or will be in the future, hopefuly. So while some countries may have lost monies that were due them, they now have a chance to recoup some of those losses via import/export trade agreements. Without the debt forgiveness that may not have been possible.

[WorkerBee]

I forgot to add that I don't see how either an RV or a LOP would affect their relationship with countries who forgave their debt. The fact is they couldn't afford to move forward without it and the protection from lawsuits.

[utvolfan]

Worker Bee, you are 100% correct. Good post.

Unfortunately, the Billio0's and Easy's of this world feel that the "secret agreements" are in place and that will result in making us all rich.

[SWFloridaGuy]

Billio0,

Yesterday you said that the reason that you spectulated in the dinar was because you believed that the Paris Club Agreement that forgave 80% debt owed by Iraq had to have some other agreement that would allow the dinar to increase in value and would make all the people holding dinar a big profit. You also stated that the CBI had the intent to make the dinar a reserve currency.

First, your conclusion that there is some other agreement beyond the Paris Club Agreement is purely conjecture on your part. I posted a copy of the Paris Club Agreement, and of course you did not reply, because your conjecture would lose any debate to the FACTS of the agreement. Yes, the CBI has stated that they desire the dinar to become a reserve currency. But they can become a reserve currency even if they lop. In fact, their currency will rise in value more quickly if they do lop. I pointed this out to you yesterday, also. But you chose not to reply.

It is hard to counter the facts with your rumors and conjecture, right?

So, because I make valid points against your rumors and conjecture you consider it a "personal attack" and cry to the mods for relief. I have never said that a profit will not be realized from this spectulation. The chance of making a small profit exists after the lop/RD/RV if the dinar continues to rise in value.

You are a pumper. I will follow your posts where ever you go and counter your rumors and conjecture with facts. You may not like it, but you WILL learn to love it.

Even though Easy thinks I am the reincarnation of someone else, he is wrong. BUT he did teach me that if I get banned, I can always come back as someone else. Because of that, I will continue to be there after every one of your posts that has no credibility. When you can bring something to the table other than rumors and conjecture then you will no longer be a pumper.

You're calling Billio0 of all people, a pumper now? Have you read a word he's written? You appear incapable of communicating in a respectful manner and the baseless descriptors you use leave a mephitic stench. Billio0 couldn't have been more gracious or honest in his approach and you respond with calling him a pumper. If your goal is to drive away members with your baneful ways you are succeeding. Don't pretend to be seeking the truth when clearly your infantile digs are only meant to incite drama. Personally, I would LOVE to see the mods step up and proceed with your extradition, until that time we will never be able to have a friendly, adult conversation.

[Carrello]

You're calling Billio0 of all people, a pumper now? Have you read a word he's written? You appear incapable of communicating in a respectful manner and the baseless descriptors you use leave a mephitic stench. Billio0 couldn't have been more gracious or honest in his approach and you respond with calling him a pumper. If your goal is to drive away members with your baneful ways you are succeeding. Don't pretend to be seeking the truth when clearly your infantile digs are only meant to incite drama. Personally, I would LOVE to see the mods step up and proceed with your extradition, until that time we will never be able to have a friendly, adult conversation.

Touche'

[zigmeister]

Billio0,

Yesterday you said that the reason that you spectulated in the dinar was because you believed that the Paris Club Agreement that forgave 80% debt owed by Iraq had to have some other agreement that would allow the dinar to increase in value and would make all the people holding dinar a big profit. You also stated that the CBI had the intent to make the dinar a reserve currency.

First, your conclusion that there is some other agreement beyond the Paris Club Agreement is purely conjecture on your part. I posted a copy of the Paris Club Agreement, and of course you did not reply, because your conjecture would lose any debate to the FACTS of the agreement. Yes, the CBI has stated that they desire the dinar to become a reserve currency. But they can become a reserve currency even if they lop. In fact, their currency will rise in value more quickly if they do lop. I pointed this out to you yesterday, also. But you chose not to reply.

It is hard to counter the facts with your rumors and conjecture, right?

So, because I make valid points against your rumors and conjecture you consider it a "personal attack" and cry to the mods for relief. I have never said that a profit will not be realized from this spectulation. The chance of making a small profit exists after the lop/RD/RV if the dinar continues to rise in value.

You are a pumper. I will follow your posts where ever you go and counter your rumors and conjecture with facts. You may not like it, but you WILL learn to love it.

Even though Easy thinks I am the reincarnation of someone else, he is wrong. BUT he did teach me that if I get banned, I can always come back as someone else. Because of that, I will continue to be there after every one of your posts that has no credibility. When you can bring something to the table other than rumors and conjecture then you will no longer be a pumper.

So are you on a mission from God?

[utvolfan]

SWFG,

I know you pumpers have to stick together. The truth is becoming more clear every day with what will happen to the dinar (lop/RD/RV). You and your pumper buddies put yourself so far out on a limb that there is now no way for you to get back.

I had a discussion with Billio0 yesterday where he specifically said he thought that the dinar would have theBIG RV because of his belief that a secret agreement had been reached beyond the Paris Club Agreement. THAT IS PUMPER TALK. If he had any shred of credibilty he would have either came forward with some evidence or he would admit that he does not have a clue as to the workings of the world currencies. Because I did not agree with him, and provided documentation to counter his pumper rumor talk, he declares that I have personally attacked him. What a dweeb............

Billio0's style of writing is to appear to be respectful and polite, but he talks and talks without offering anything but pumper dribble. I respect crediblity... Something that you probably know nothing of.

If you and the rest of the pumpers want to continue to post ONLY things that make it appear that the dinar will have the BIG RV, then I will be there to counter your posts with the truth and facts. If I get banned, I will return with a different name, IP address and email. The pumpers of dinar land have gotten a free pass for way too long. I will follow you around on this site and counter unless you can have the decency to respect the truth and at least post something that is a fair balance to the pumper crap that you love.

Its up to you... You want to the right thing or not?

Zigmeister.... Yes, I am on a mission from God...Jake and Elwood Blues are my brothers!!!!

[AustinMom]

Thank you to everyone for the insightful posts. I now understand that the LOP/RD is not necessarily a loss in profit if followed by a RV. Just not a big bang that I thought it would be. Yep, I got into this investment 2 years ago by reading some pumpers (as I believe many people did, and are still doing). I do not believe it is a bad investment. I have time on my side, and I did not over-invest. Personally, I can afford to lose what I invested. The news articles which I have read seem to lean towards a 2 years time frame in which to convert the IQD to US dollars. If the first step is a LOP/RD, then a RV, I guess I will hold my dinar until the end of that 2 year cash in time, knowing that I must remove the 3 zeros in my mind. Is this correct?

Thank you again for the feedback.

[zigmeister]

SWFG,

I know you pumpers have to stick together. The truth is becoming more clear every day with what will happen to the dinar (lop/RD/RV). You and your pumper buddies put yourself so far out on a limb that there is now no way for you to get back.

I had a discussion with Billio0 yesterday where he specifically said he thought that the dinar would have theBIG RV because of his belief that a secret agreement had been reached beyond the Paris Club Agreement. THAT IS PUMPER TALK. If he had any shred of credibilty he would have either came forward with some evidence or he would admit that he does not have a clue as to the workings of the world currencies. Because I did not agree with him, and provided documentation to counter his pumper rumor talk, he declares that I have personally attacked him. What a dweeb............

Billio0's style of writing is to appear to be respectful and polite, but he talks and talks without offering anything but pumper dribble. I respect crediblity... Something that you probably know nothing of.

If you and the rest of the pumpers want to continue to post ONLY things that make it appear that the dinar will have the BIG RV, then I will be there to counter your posts with the truth and facts. If I get banned, I will return with a different name, IP address and email. The pumpers of dinar land have gotten a free pass for way too long. I will follow you around on this site and counter unless you can have the decency to respect the truth and at least post something that is a fair balance to the pumper crap that you love.

Its up to you... You want to the right thing or not?

Zigmeister.... Yes, I am on a mission from God...Jake and Elwood Blues are my brothers!!!!

Tell me Utvolfan if this is what they believe is true, and will happen how can they be considered pumpers? They are not selling dinar, they are not working for a company that does. So for you to accuse them of pumping really is not a fair statement. Yes you can challenge them on their conclusions, and you can disagree with their conclusions and how they formed their opinions to come to their conclusions. But you have no basis to accuse them of being a guru or a pumper, unless you can prove they are working for and are selling dinar.

Edited July 7, 2012 by zigmeister

[WorkerBee]

Thank you to everyone for the insightful posts. I now understand that the LOP/RD is not necessarily a loss in profit if followed by a RV. Just not a big bang that I thought it would be. Yep, I got into this investment 2 years ago by reading some pumpers (as I believe many people did, and are still doing). I do not believe it is a bad investment. I have time on my side, and I did not over-invest. Personally, I can afford to lose what I invested. The news articles which I have read seem to lean towards a 2 years time frame in which to convert the IQD to US dollars. If the first step is a LOP/RD, then a RV, I guess I will hold my dinar until the end of that 2 year cash in time, knowing that I must remove the 3 zeros in my mind. Is this correct?

Thank you again for the feedback.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. And yes, a redenomination in and of itself is neutral, but the new currency can be assigned a new higher value (RV). So like you, if they do give us two years to cash in, I might hang on to it and hope for a ride up. It's still possible at the end of the cash in period you will realize a loss but oh man, the ride has been fun.

[alan_coaks_3]

if they set a rate for are old dinars we have it will alswys be that way only the new dinar will go up or down in value

[billio0]

Billio0,

Yesterday you said that the reason that you spectulated in the dinar was because you believed that the Paris Club Agreement that forgave 80% debt owed by Iraq had to have some other agreement that would allow the dinar to increase in value and would make all the people holding dinar a big profit. You also stated that the CBI had the intent to make the dinar a reserve currency.

First, your conclusion that there is some other agreement beyond the Paris Club Agreement is purely conjecture on your part. I posted a copy of the Paris Club Agreement, and of course you did not reply, because your conjecture would lose any debate to the FACTS of the agreement. Yes, the CBI has stated that they desire the dinar to become a reserve currency. But they can become a reserve currency even if they lop. In fact, their currency will rise in value more quickly if they do lop. I pointed this out to you yesterday, also. But you chose not to reply.

It is hard to counter the facts with your rumors and conjecture, right?

So, because I make valid points against your rumors and conjecture you consider it a "personal attack" and cry to the mods for relief. I have never said that a profit will not be realized from this spectulation. The chance of making a small profit exists after the lop/RD/RV if the dinar continues to rise in value.

You are a pumper. I will follow your posts where ever you go and counter your rumors and conjecture with facts. You may not like it, but you WILL learn to love it.

Even though Easy thinks I am the reincarnation of someone else, he is wrong. BUT he did teach me that if I get banned, I can always come back as someone else. Because of that, I will continue to be there after every one of your posts that has no credibility. When you can bring something to the table other than rumors and conjecture then you will no longer be a pumper.

Hello once again UTVOLFAN,

I am quite flattered that you have made my posts your personal crusade, and welcome them whenever and wherever you choose to spout your now famous venom.

What I have always said, and shall continue to say is ONLY my opinion of what occurs with the IQD. I have no connection to anyone who either buys or sells IQD as a business, and don't ever plan to do so. Thus, your claim that i am a pumper is just one more example of your obvious personal vendetta directed at me, which I now relish since you have admitted it openly. In fact, you provide me the welcome humor I so need with the wait of this investment, and if you want to really make this personal, why not agree to meet me somewhere in person, and let us both express ourselves in a more traditional fashion. Then we can spare the rest of the DV community our respective comments, and perhaps they will then read about us in the news section on crimes committed in hate.

So, what do you say? Shall we meet and get it on, or do we just keep messing up people's desire for real info and discussion here?

But, in the interest of those here whom I care about, this shall be my last direct response to you, or about you. Whether you follow me around DV is your business, and your problem.

I sincerely apologize to all who have endured this dribble thus far. Thank you.

Edited July 7, 2012 by billio0

[utvolfan]

Hello Zigmeister! Thanks for your question. Here is my reply: The Billio0's, SWFG, and Easy's of the world only post articles (based on rumors) or or they take out of context some article from a press release that has a hint of a BIG RV (for instance when the CBI said they intend to make the dinar a reserve currency). They have never posted any article or press release that points to what the CBI is saying (lop/RD/RV).

When given documented links that clearly show they are wrong with their statments, they resort to anger and personal attacks.

That is a pumper agenda.

Maybe they are not selling dinar.... Maybe they are. Maybe they are hired pumpers for someone that is selling dinar. Maybe they just refuse to accept what the CBI is saying. Mayvbe they just do not understand.

The CBI has made it quite clear what their intent is. Only a pumper or someone who can not understand what the CBI is saying would continue to encourage people to believe that there will be a BIG RV. Will the CBI go through with the lop/RD/RV? The chances are probably 99.9 % that they will. If the CBI does not go forward with that plan (which it could be held up by the lack of the GOI to join the plan), there is no evidence that it will result in the BIG RV. Common sense tells us that a country with a 30 trillion paper currency circulation can not RV at a dollar and put theirselves on the hook for 30 trillion dollars ( and that is just the M1, not even considering the M2). Even if they were to do just an RV at a dime (.10) they would still be on the hook for 3 trillion dollars (M1). Even that small revalued amount would put them at a tremendous disadvantage.

The only way to rein in a hyperinflated currency and still maintain value is the lop/RD/RV method.

When the pumpers can look at this speculation in a fair and balanced way, then the pumper label will be removed. But I would not hold my breath waiting... You will turn as blue as Billio0's head!

Alan coaks 3, MY OPINION.... The CBI has said that the current currency and the new currency will "co-exist" for one or two year period (I read somewhere today that they would accept the old currency for up to ten years) . Just my opinion, but I think that would mean that both currencies would float up or down depending on the market.

[AustinMom]

Doctor Robbins,

Thank you for your comment. I have come to my belief about the other countries invested interest in Iraq through reading the articles that are coming out of Iraq. I speak only for myself. Maybe I am wrong, but in reading these articles (at least one every third day) they speak about the other countries having reserves. I (maybe by mistake) understood this to mean that they were in possession of IQDs. I have not been misled by other's, this is strictly my understanding. Maybe, this is the quid pro quo that I have let myself believe. Aaahhhh squash, I know what I am trying to say, I just am not saying it right. But, why would Iraq media (I know to take their articles with a grain of salt, but there are sooo many articles refering to the reserves of other countries) write about these reserves in the same articles when defining the LOP/RD/RV?

Again, I am just trying to understand. I, of course, have no proof that other countries possess IQDs, much less ours. But, I also cannot imagine other countries who were owed monies from the Saddam era, just saying, in essence, don't worry about paying me. The world wide economy, at that time, was really bad. These countries (IMO) could not all say that they were going to wipe the slate clean. I would think that they had to have been given something in return for the forgiveness of debt. Honestly asking, what else could Iraq offer to these countries other than IQDs to RV in the future?