Obama--just the beginning

[Heavyduty053]

If your not a christian and try to live with christian values in your life then this posting is not of interest to you.It has been signed into law now that churches or any faith based organization that has employees will have to start paying for birth control now or be fined $2000.00 per year for not doing so. Seperation of church and state which has been driven into our heads for years has also some what restrained the govt from attacking the churches because they wanted to drive the christian faith into a corner and not be bothered with it. Now faith based organizations and christians is being strong armed by the govt to choose whether they will violate the law and pay the fines or go against christian principles and use church contributions to pay for it. Using money given for God's work to pay for birth control is wrong and will be condemed. The insurance lobbyists and the ACLU is celebrating a victory right now because this is the beginning of driving a stake into the heart of the christian faith. This is the first assault deep inside the church by our govt and it will not end there.

God has tried for many many years to get people to recognize that we are responsible for letting this his christian values be driven into a corner and this nation is suffering the consequences. Its not hard to understand the term you will reap what you sow. This assault is just to get inside the door. It will effect all christian faiths. So with God looking down on us and wondering why we are willing to let a few dictate our freedom that he give us to stand up and fight agaisnt the evil thats coming. He intentions for his children was to live in a prosperous land free to choose for ourselves to except his blessings or deny them. He gave us intelligence enough to know when things is right or wrong and how to correct them and over the years we have choosen to back down and let the atheists rule. More and more of our children are being taught that muslims is to be accepted is the coming way of life. People i am sorry if any of this offends you and if it does take it up with God i am sure he has a good answer for you. Islam is not about christians values it is about CONTROL over the masses and Obama is talking about his christian faith out of one side of his mouth and making assurances to uphold muslims out of the other....The Bible says to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing, we have been warned of people who talk a good game and rule against you while your back is turned..........I firmly believe that God the creator of life is getting close to the last tick of the clock for mankind to see the error of his ways and correct them. Those who can't see or will not pay attention to the signs of the times does not understand how things are lining up just as the prophecies said they would. He is not going to step in and heal our lands with people doing the things they are doing.When the time comes for the seperation of good and evil God is going to say to his son Jesus time shall be no more and there is crying and screaming because people missed their chance to be saved. Those who believe in God this will be a welcome site and for the rest of mankind, it will be a sad sad day. If you are a christian we must pray for all non believers that they will see the light before time draws to a close......... Heavyduty053

[kobhe911]

Heavyduty053, thanks for the reminder, havent read II Chronicles 7:14 in a while......"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land".....much appreciated here today, thx again, Curtis.

[Weapon X]

It would be really nice if you could offer said "law" as proof so that others can read, a message on its own without proof is just a rumor. As they used to say when I was kid " no ticket no laundry"

[mojack]

The mandate exempts churches but applies to Catholic universities, Catholic-based charities and to groups affiliated with Methodists, Baptists and other denominations.

Workplace health plans will have to cover all forms of contraception approved by the Food and Drug Administration, ranging from the pill to implantable devices to sterilization. Also covered is the morning-after pill, which can prevent pregnancy after unprotected sex and is considered as tantamount to an abortion drug by some religious conservatives.

There is no mandate, however, to cover abortions.

[fnbplanet]

It's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion!

[Mick373]

Heavyduty + 1 , I agree totally. Call me lets get a cup of coffee. mick

[parmenio]

The mandate exempts churches but applies to Catholic universities, Catholic-based charities and to groups affiliated with Methodists, Baptists and other denominations.

Workplace health plans will have to cover all forms of contraception approved by the Food and Drug Administration, ranging from the pill to implantable devices to sterilization. Also covered is the morning-after pill, which can prevent pregnancy after unprotected sex and is considered as tantamount to an abortion drug by some religious conservatives.

There is no mandate, however, to cover abortions.

Your first paragraph alone is an invasion and of the First Amendment.

Edited February 9, 2012 by carlablum
Removed the name calling

[tarsi]

Once again spreading lies and propaganda, perfect example of followers just spreading something they heard.......... FACT: churches are exempt.......................................

[Kenneth]

The Caliphate is the end goal.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/beck-on-the-global-caliphate-a-year-later-if-im-wrong-we-bought-extra-food-if-theyre-wrong-we-die/

[Royce]

Once again spreading lies and propaganda, perfect example of followers just spreading something they heard.......... FACT: churches are exempt.......................................

Exempt from what ?????

[stonewall67]

You liberals are so full of it makes us want to puke! Your first paragraph alone is an invasion and of the First Amendment. Wake up MORONS!

Is it at all possible to state your opinion and then have a lively discussion of the issues without name calling and rhetoric? I believe as you do on this topic but you would have gotten much farther along with just simply pointing out that even to require institutions that are affiliated with church denominations to go against their religous beliefs is an attack on their constitutional rights and an attack on their freedom......... STOP THE NAME CALLING!!!!! We are all Americans. Stand on your ideas and on your ideals and let that sway the oppostion...

[parmenio]

Once again spreading lies and propaganda, perfect example of followers just spreading something they heard.......... FACT: churches are exempt.......................................

READ the first paragraph again! Of course churches are exempt! Obama is smaart enough to know that of he didn't exempt them he would have a civil war on his hands. So...,he's doing the next best thing! Read!!

Edited February 9, 2012 by carlablum
Removed the name calling.

[mojack]

You liberals are so full of it makes us want to puke! Your first paragraph alone is an invasion and of the First Amendment. Wake up MORONS!

C'mon parmenio, don't be a moron like usual... HeavyD said churches... I only set it straight.

Morons that you folks follow wrote the book in lies! Thing is you guys aren't smart enough to know the difference.

READ the first paragraph again! Of course churches are exempt! Obama is smaart enough to know that of he didn't exempt them he would have a civil war on his hands. So...,he's doing the next best thing! Read!!

READ P

[tarsi]

Complete waste of time........................ unbelievable the people stating truth and fact are the morons too funny

[stonewall67]

Once again spreading lies and propaganda, perfect example of followers just spreading something they heard.......... FACT: churches are exempt.......................................

There are no "lies and propaganda here". The fact of the matter is, institutions affiliated with churches ARE required now by law to pay for birth control. Are churches exempt? Yes but this is a back door attack on churches by forcing their institutions that are supported by donated dollars from the church to take part in a practice that is clearly against the beliefs of said church. In no way is that a lie or is it propaganda. It's truth.

[mojack]

There are no "lies and propaganda here". The fact of the matter is, institutions affiliated with churches ARE required now by law to pay for birth control. Are churches exempt? Yes but this is a back door attack on churches by forcing their institutions that are supported by donated dollars from the church to take part in a practice that is clearly against the beliefs of said church. In no way is that a lie or is it propaganda. It's truth.

I certainly can't see it as an attack on any institution. I think that is a political approach to say attack. See the true meaning behind the law all together: issue is a provision of the health care law that requires insurance plans to cover preventive care for women free of charge to the employee. Last year, an advisory panel from the respected Institute of Medicine recommended including birth control on the list, partly because it promotes maternal and child health by allowing women to space their pregnancies.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius agreed, issuing a new federal regulation last summer.

You have to recall the rules and guidelines for those types of organizations, they differ from churches in several areas from hiring practices, jobs, religious status, taxes etc...

[tarsi]

Funny How you all flip flop back and forth you crusify Obama because he believes every human has the right to make their own choice, not that he agrees with it but that he believes AS does GOD we each have a choice and its NOT his(OBAMA) or anyone else for that matter to choose for another human being ONLY GOD can judge Heavy your Quote:

He intentions for his children was to live in a prosperous land free to choose for ourselves to except his blessings or deny them. He gave us intelligence enough to know when things is right or wrong and how to correct them and over the years we have choosen to back down and let the atheists rule.

SO which is it Do we have a choice or is that choice available only to those who agree with your way of thinking, let me make it clear I am PRO-LIFE, as is President Obama, but recognize that every human being has THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT to make that choice...... Because GOD gave that right to them and NO man can take it away, you can twist and turn it anyway you want but that doesnt change the facts. GOD gave the gift of free will to all, and it drives me crazy listening to all these hipocrites going on and on about pro-life and pro-choice, its nothing more than political rhetoric trying to hide behind religon to be used when its convienent for their cause. Yes I would love for each and every woman/girl to choose life for an unborn child, but me you and noone else has the right to choose for them just as you have no right to choose what religon someone chooses, even down to their political affiliation, its all a choice and GOD made it very clear that every man woman and child has the right to that choice.................

So stonewall sorry but I have to disagree with you there are lies and propaganda their, you just have to be willing to recognize it and admit it.....................ITS MY CHOICE

[Royce]

The Christians in this country better dig out their armor and put it on; because there is a real war coming right at them (Christians will know what this means - others will have no clue). Obama and the liberals in the US and in the rest of the world want the Christians and the Jew gone, just like Hitler wanted the Jew gone in Germany. Most Christians are part of the silent majority in this country. Now is the time for them to stand up and be heard. It's time for them to come out and vote; and get rid of Obama and the other liberal politicians in the local, state and the national elections. That means Independents, Republicans and Democrats. What these politicians say is bad enough, but their actions are killing this country. And who are the 13 % of the politicians that Americans like that are in Congress? I would like to meet them!

Christian have the same rights of speech and participation as any other group in this country (for profit group - non profit group or not for profit group, any exempt or non exempt). If the Christians in this country are pushed far enough and hard enough, (and they are now) they will get tired of the discrimination against them and they will standup out of the shadows and they will be heard, and seen, and felt, once again in this country and around the world.

Lets get this straight! The correct statement as intended should be: "SEPARATION OF THE STATE - FROM THE CHURCH" and you can quote me on that one!

[trooper]

Bishops rip HHS mandate; Bishop Zubik: ‘to hell with you’

RSS Facebook January 27, 2012

From Our Store: The Documents of the Second Vatican Council: A Summary and Guide (eBook)

Archbishop Gregory Aymond of New Orleans, Bishop David Zubik of Pittsburgh, Bishop Daniel Jenky of Peoria, and Bishop Paul Loverde of Arlington, Virginia are among the bishops urging Catholics to oppose the Obama administration’s mandate that requires religious agencies to offer contraceptive and sterilization coverage to their employees.

Bishop Jenky has directed all priests to include the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel at all Sunday Masses until the issue is favorably resolved. The prayer is to be offered for the intention of the freedom of the Catholic Church in the United States.

“It comes like a slap in the face,” writes Bishop Zubik. “The Obama administration has just told the Catholics of the United States, ‘To Hell with you!’ There is no other way to put it … Kathleen Sebelius and through her, the Obama administration, have said ‘To Hell with You’ to the Catholic faithful of the United States. To Hell with your religious beliefs, to Hell with your religious liberty, to Hell with your freedom of conscience.”

“Nobody, not even the president of the United States or anyone who represents him, has the right to say to you and to me as U.S. citizens, as Catholics, or as both: ‘To Hell with You.’ The president and our elected leaders need to hear from you and me and to listen to us NOW.”

Bishop Loverde said: “I am absolutely convinced that an unprecedented and very dangerous line has been crossed that goes to the heart of the freedom of religion, and that this action does intolerable violence to our First Amendment rights.” He encouraged Catholics in his diocese, which abuts Washington, DC, to “be prepared to engage in a strong defense in the civil arena of the basic human right of religious liberty.”

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=13125

Edited February 3, 2012 by trooper

[stonewall67]

I certainly can't see it as an attack on any institution. I think that is a political approach to say attack. See the true meaning behind the law all together: issue is a provision of the health care law that requires insurance plans to cover preventive care for women free of charge to the employee. Last year, an advisory panel from the respected Institute of Medicine recommended including birth control on the list, partly because it promotes maternal and child health by allowing women to space their pregnancies.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius agreed, issuing a new federal regulation last summer.

You have to recall the rules and guidelines for those types of organizations, they differ from churches in several areas from hiring practices, jobs, religious status, taxes etc...

Thanks for the response.... I hope you realize that you made part of my argument for me:

"You have to recall the rules and guidelines for those types of organizations, they differ from churches in several areas from hiring practices, jobs, religious status, taxes etc..."

These practices are different due to the fact that these organizations conduct buisness based upon the stance and beliefs of the parent organization that represents them. When you subject them to laws such as these then you remove their right to practice those stances and beliefs.

[chocolate1]

Is it at all possible to state your opinion and then have a lively discussion of the issues without name calling and rhetoric? I believe as you do on this topic but you would have gotten much farther along with just simply pointing out that even to require institutions that are affiliated with church denominations to go against their religous beliefs is an attack on their constitutional rights and an attack on their freedom......... STOP THE NAME CALLING!!!!! We are all Americans. Stand on your ideas and on your ideals and let that sway the oppostion...

...could not have articulated it any clearer myself. That's one of the few downsides of this forum: having to read all of this other refuse that some members just have to spew, like vomit, on others. Someone once said that "name calling is the last resort of the scoundrel". Hmmmm....

Edited February 3, 2012 by chocolate1

[stonewall67]

Funny How you all flip flop back and forth you crusify Obama because he believes every human has the right to make their own choice, not that he agrees with it but that he believes AS does GOD we each have a choice and its NOT his(OBAMA) or anyone else for that matter to choose for another human being ONLY GOD can judge Heavy your Quote:

He intentions for his children was to live in a prosperous land free to choose for ourselves to except his blessings or deny them. He gave us intelligence enough to know when things is right or wrong and how to correct them and over the years we have choosen to back down and let the atheists rule.

SO which is it Do we have a choice or is that choice available only to those who agree with your way of thinking, let me make it clear I am PRO-LIFE, as is President Obama, but recognize that every human being has THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT to make that choice...... Because GOD gave that right to them and NO man can take it away, you can twist and turn it anyway you want but that doesnt change the facts. GOD gave the gift of free will to all, and it drives me crazy listening to all these hipocrites going on and on about pro-life and pro-choice, its nothing more than political rhetoric trying to hide behind religon to be used when its convienent for their cause. Yes I would love for each and every woman/girl to choose life for an unborn child, but me you and noone else has the right to choose for them just as you have no right to choose what religon someone chooses, even down to their political affiliation, its all a choice and GOD made it very clear that every man woman and child has the right to that choice.................

So stonewall sorry but I have to disagree with you there are lies and propaganda their, you just have to be willing to recognize it and admit it.....................ITS MY CHOICE

No doubt it is your choice but you should only be allowed to practice your choice when that choice effects only you. When the practice of that choice effects others then you remove the other persons ability to practice THEIR choice to not be subject to YOUR choice..... When an institution that is backed monetarily and physically by a church organization is forced to go against their beliefs and are ordered to pay for the choices of others, how is that freedom of choice???? We can in no way have it both ways!!!!

By the way I see rhetoric in the earlier lines but to call them lies is a stretch.....

Edited February 3, 2012 by stonewall67

[mojack]

Thanks for the response.... I hope you realize that you made part of my argument for me:

"You have to recall the rules and guidelines for those types of organizations, they differ from churches in several areas from hiring practices, jobs, religious status, taxes etc..."

These practices are different due to the fact that these organizations conduct buisness based upon the stance and beliefs of the parent organization that represents them. When you subject them to laws such as these then you remove their right to practice those stances and beliefs.

Good.... I didn't elaborate on the differences, but they do differ from churches. Partly depends on their filing of incorporation. Have a good day.

BTW: not defending that part of the law... only wanted to clear it up that churches were not included.

Edited February 3, 2012 by mojack

[tarsi]

Must say Stonewall I have to agree with your quote below can't argue the fact................. logically anyway Lol!!!!

No doubt it is your choice but you should only be allowed to practice your choice when that choice effects only you. When the practice of that choice effects others then you remove the other persons ability to practice THEIR choice to not be subject to YOUR choice..... When an institution that is backed monetarily and physically by a church organization is forced to go against their beliefs and are ordered to pay for the choices of others, how is that freedom of choice???? We can in no way have it both ways!!!!

By the way I see rhetoric in the earlier lines but to call them lies is a stretch.....

[stonewall67]

Must say Stonewall I have to agree with your quote below can't argue the fact................. logically anyway Lol!!!!

No doubt it is your choice but you should only be allowed to practice your choice when that choice effects only you. When the practice of that choice effects others then you remove the other persons ability to practice THEIR choice to not be subject to YOUR choice..... When an institution that is backed monetarily and physically by a church organization is forced to go against their beliefs and are ordered to pay for the choices of others, how is that freedom of choice???? We can in no way have it both ways!!!!

By the way I see rhetoric in the earlier lines but to call them lies is a stretch.....

Thanks tarsi......