RV WILL HAPPEN

[Darin]

Yes, you are.

A lop and then RV to $3 is within the realm of possibility. A straight RV to 1 USD is not. Who's mistaken now?

So?

So?

Don't be ridiculous.

Read this:

http://www.unc.edu/~lmosley/APSA%202005.pdf

Dollarization is one of the specific points that an RD DOES address.

The Iraqi people are used to using USD - why would they discontinue using USD for a new currency that is valued less ($0.86)

A LOP (R/D @ 1000:1) + R/V at $3 is in the realm of possibilities

But guess what! It likely will not happen until after the old notes are deemed no longer valid.

Turkey followed this route, and I believe if Iraq R/D (Lops) they will too.

Why?

Because they can than re-asses what is in circulation -- meaning, what they're liable against. Than re-value using those figures

It may be too hard to determine while two currencies are running concurrently.

If it does happen that way they R/D + R/V @ $3, it'll happen initially at the time they R/D. - Only to encourage people to switch from using the USD.

I however, do not believe this is likely, considering that a large portion of IQD sits outside of Iraq. Their foreign net reserves would still be liquidated at that point.

Would this suck? Yes, of course... Would it be worth re-investing? I don't know... Depends on the ease of buying the dinar again post R/D.

[estewart]

here is how its going to work IMEO (in my educated opinion) .... the tripple zero notes 1k,5k,10k,25k are going to remain in circulation until they find their way to banks where the banks will then trade them into the cbi for equal amounts of lower denoms...so if the bank got 1 million in 1k notes, the cbi will issue them lower denoms totaling 1million. This will happen until the triple zero notes are deleted, removed, dropped from the currency(normally a plural word meaning ALL CURRENCY IN CIRCULATION) so essentially they are deleting,removing,dropping the triple zeros from circulation(currency) ....

RIGHT. The US did that already, itself. It removed all the triple zero and double zero currency above 100 from circulation exactly in that manner some years ago.

WHY?

Large bills are too easy to move about from one place to another here in the Land of the Free.

A hundred million is now a stack of 1,000,000 one-hundred dollar bills. And that's a lot of suit cases full.

[HopefulTxn]

Did you know the Natural Gas reserves are estimated in the TRILLIONS of feet? A buck RV will be Pocket change.

The last estimate of natural gas reserves I have seen is 126 trillion cubic feet (Link). The value of 126 trillion cubic feet of natural gas is currently about $529 billion dollars ($4.20 USD x 126 billion MMBTu's = $529 billion USD). Nat. Gas Calculator

While their natural gas will make them some money, it is not even in the same ballpark as what their oil will bring them. The total value of their known natural gas supply would equate to around 5.8 years of oil production of 2.5 mbpd at $100 per barrel. It will be a nice addition to their annual revenue stream, don't get me wrong - but in the overall scheme of things, it's value isn't near as high as many think it is.

Edited August 4, 2011 by HopefulTxn

[milene1963]

This information is not found in just one document alone, but through research of several news articles that have come out over the past several months/years. Just search this site, go through the acrhives and all of this info is available. Good luck and God Bless.

Thank You

[Darin]

Unfortunately, the people here that don't already understand the concept (and it's a pretty simple one, really), have no interest in understanding the concept. They just want to sit around and trade banker stories and listen to the lies made up by the Call Club or the RV Crew or whoever's lies are in vogue at the moment, and dream of the day they think they'll be rich.

They don't want to come to the (100% true) realization that they have a better chance of winning a Powerball Jackpot than the IQD has of doing a straight RV to 86 cents+.

It's quite sad, actually. A lot of these people are probably underemployed and undereducated and this is their only shot at a better life. I wonder how many rent checks been have sent to dinar dealers/electricity shut off/etc due to someone that doesn't know better believing all the pumpers and just having to get that million dinar immediately before missing out when it RVs "tomorrow."

Well, luckily for them, when this thing does LOP

They can exchange their IQD for cash and take a small loss and move on.

**Note: My reference to small loss is relevance to bank spread, fees, and the idea most people over-paid for IQD

[Bumper64]

I didn't say they were. Please read more carefully before responding in the future, so as not to waste everyone's time.

Let's give this a try, let's give answers without talking down to people.

No one knows for sure how this is going to turn out so let's talk about different ways things can happen without trying to be the big savior and shove your opinions down everyone's throat.

Way to much tension in this thread

Back to Playing Nice

[genevieve]

Great thread, but I have a few questions for the Lopsters.

1st) If you really believe you will only get 3 times you're initial investment, then why not just wait until the class action lawsuit against those unlicensed agents that sold you the dinar as a get rich scenario?

If you win you get back 3 times your investment plus free legal representation. Imagine if you spent your time pursuing that option. If you just followed my advice you can get off these forums and get back to doing whatever you did before hearing about the dinar.

2nd) Well, there really wasn't a second question just a statement. Lop or no lop, most seem to spend entirely way too much time into this investment. Imagine if you put this much time and energy into volunteering?

[Darin]

Let's give this a try, let's give answers without talking down to people.

No one knows for sure how this is going to turn out so let's talk about different ways things can happen without trying to be the big savior and shove your opinions down everyone's throat.

Way to much tension in this thread

Back to Playing Nice

I tried taking the route of possible methods, but people seem to be so quick to judge against them or not discuss the possibilities or potential.

People think the only way to contract the overall money supply is in terms of re-denominating (LOP)

There are other methods...

[genevieve]

I personally will stick with scenario 2 from MC until someone can prove it wrong.

Scenario 2

Iraq raises the exchange rate on a gradual basis. This would be a multilayered revalue over a short time frame.

The dinar amount can be contracted through a multi-revalue process with fixed rates. Let me give you an example of how it could work. I will use simple numbers to illustrate. I am in no way endorsing these rates. This is merely an example of scenario 2.

Let’s say the dinar revalues to 1 penny. Banks in Iraq take their dinar to currency auctions and trade in on their investment. During a 1 month period the CBI takes in 1 trillion dinars. Then the CBI raises the rate once again to 10 cents and takes in 2 trillion in a two month period and issues about 100 billion dinar during this time.

The 100 billion issued at a value of 10 cents is equal to the value of the trillion dinar they took in the first month when the rate was 1 penny. So CBI was able to raise the value of the dinar and contract the currency supply all at the same time. So now two months later they raise the rate to 50 cents. Because they took in 2 trillion at 10 cents, they only need to issue 100 billion at the new rate to break even and thus pay for the Revalue through this multi rate process. When all is said and done the rate will wind up somewhere between 1.13 and what ever the current value of the euro is for 3 years. (This is according to the minister of planning’s report)

Of course this is a simple overview. I have no idea what the rates will be or when any of this will happen. This is just one scenario. It may not play out this way at all, but this is the only way I can see an RV taking place with trillions of dinar in circulation. They may only need to adjust the rate 3 or 4 times to get the desired effect.

Advantages

If there is 28 trillion dinar in circulation in Iraq they would be able to draw down the currency supply without putting in any of the contraction measures. The US Dollar would be drawn down gradually as the dinar is raised in value

Disadvantage

The number one disadvantage here would be the time required to get the dinar to the desired rate. This could take anywhere from six months to two years to implement. This would add additional cost to the rebuilding of infrastructure in Iraq.

[Darin]

I personally will stick with scenario 2 from MC until someone can prove it wrong.

Scenario 2

Iraq raises the exchange rate on a gradual basis. This would be a multilayered revalue over a short time frame.

The dinar amount can be contracted through a multi-revalue process with fixed rates. Let me give you an example of how it could work. I will use simple numbers to illustrate. I am in no way endorsing these rates. This is merely an example of scenario 2.

Let’s say the dinar revalues to 1 penny. Banks in Iraq take their dinar to currency auctions and trade in on their investment. During a 1 month period the CBI takes in 1 trillion dinars. Then the CBI raises the rate once again to 10 cents and takes in 2 trillion in a two month period and issues about 100 billion dinar during this time.

The 100 billion issued at a value of 10 cents is equal to the value of the trillion dinar they took in the first month when the rate was 1 penny. So CBI was able to raise the value of the dinar and contract the currency supply all at the same time. So now two months later they raise the rate to 50 cents. Because they took in 2 trillion at 10 cents, they only need to issue 100 billion at the new rate to break even and thus pay for the Revalue through this multi rate process. When all is said and done the rate will wind up somewhere between 1.13 and what ever the current value of the euro is for 3 years. (This is according to the minister of planning’s report)

Of course this is a simple overview. I have no idea what the rates will be or when any of this will happen. This is just one scenario. It may not play out this way at all, but this is the only way I can see an RV taking place with trillions of dinar in circulation. They may only need to adjust the rate 3 or 4 times to get the desired effect.

Advantages

If there is 28 trillion dinar in circulation in Iraq they would be able to draw down the currency supply without putting in any of the contraction measures. The US Dollar would be drawn down gradually as the dinar is raised in value

Disadvantage

The number one disadvantage here would be the time required to get the dinar to the desired rate. This could take anywhere from six months to two years to implement. This would add additional cost to the rebuilding of infrastructure in Iraq.

One of many potential scenarios...

Imagine how many would jump to cash out at 1 penny...

They may view that as the rate..

Greed would likely get a large # to cash out.

Patience is a virtue and rewards come to those that wait..

Question is: the duration between each increase.

Not very good ones, at least from the ones I've seen. They usually either amount to Iraq giving US currency speculators 50 years of their oil supply, or the UST giving Iraq a 10 trillion dollar (mostly) interest free loan.

Neither are very probable, for obvious reasons.

Well

More logical methods may include a longer-term scenario

Slowly decreasing the money supply, while countering with a higher rate.

Or a multiple tier R/V

[genevieve]

Yes Darin, investment reward = patience.

Here is a snippit with me and a friend last night about the "LOP", I hate that word. Enjoy!

* 2:44:06 PM] Genevieve: I was reading an article today that turkey, iran and iraq are forming a untited bank

* 2:46:12 PM] "E": Yes

* 2:47:30 PM] "E": I am discovering some very interesting stuff right now, in following the Moseley docs on various countries who have had changes in currencies and values.

* 2:47:39 PM] "E": That research is not for the faint of heart.

* 2:48:42 PM] Genevieve: turkey is the country most folks bring up when they talk about a country messing with folks..lol as far as full redenom and sticking foreign investors right?

* 2:49:28 PM] Genevieve: but werent they like redicoulsy hyper inflated

* 2:49:45 PM] Genevieve: like having a million or trillion bill..lol

* 2:49:46 PM] "E": That is the problem..... because there is so much more to it but that is all people see on the surface.

* 2:49:53 PM] Genevieve: yeah I agree

* 2:50:03 PM] Genevieve: all about the mechanism

* 2:50:10 PM] Genevieve: and how it is to go down it seems

* 2:50:17 PM] Genevieve: I prefer scenario 2

* 2:50:29 PM] Genevieve: a gradual drawdown and slow climb in the rate to compensate

* 2:50:45 PM] "E": Gotta look at the whole picture and line up the comparisons...

* 2:50:58 PM] "E": folks are thinking in 1 track mindset.

* 2:51:05 PM] Genevieve: yuppers

* 2:54:00 PM] Genevieve: now your just teasing me with tidbits..lol point me in a direction.. HA!

* 3:00:37 PM] "E": OK...... It could be a wild goose chase.

* 3:00:52 PM] Genevieve: gobble gobble

* 3:01:03 PM] "E": (chuckle)

* 3:02:08 PM] "E": Hang on....

* 3:02:19 PM] "E": Need to locate the right links

* 3:03:04 PM] "E": We have several documents on Turkey Central Bank, the policies and what the gov actually did ahead of time before they lopped.

* 3:03:18 PM] "E": Way too much to explain in type.

* 3:03:28 PM] "E": It would end up a damn novel.

* 3:04:57 PM] "E": Compare the history and data along with all relating statistics.... population, amounts in circulation, GDP etc. etc. with Iraq.

* 3:05:19 PM] "E": Then subtract the Petro Dollar from the statistics.

* 3:05:27 PM] "E": ++++++++++++

* 3:05:41 PM | Edited 3:05:47 PM] "E": Then do the same with Nigeria

* 3:05:54 PM] "E": ++++++++++++

* 3:11:31 PM] "E": Then back to some studies in Mundel Papers... from 1961

* 3:11:46 PM] Genevieve: I jsut started here

* 3:11:47 PM] Genevieve: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_lira

* 3:11:52 PM] "E": This has to do with methodologies and exchange rate policies.

* 3:13:11 PM] "E": Where I am going with this, has to do with some stuff our team at One Dinar did last year, on world histories of the contries who redenominated over the last 100 years.

* 3:13:33 PM] "E": It is not for the faint of heart.

* 3:14:26 PM] "E": To see this study will tend to make the researcher thing, nobody does a true revaluation without some form of hybrid lop.

* 3:14:31 PM] Genevieve: if you got teh link post it, i think im a member there

* 3:15:15 PM] "E": That research is no longer stored there. Unfortunate.... because very few could understand it.

* 3:17:03 PM] "E": Here is the thing. In that study, I could not find any country who did a true revaluation..... but also found that not one single one of those countries had the ability that Iraq does to truly pay for with their own internal economy, to cover the revaluations.

* 3:17:51 PM] "E": So all of them lopped in one fashion or another, including Germany in the martial plan..... even Kuwait did a hybrid.

* 3:18:04 PM] "E": Disturbing, right?

* 3:18:24 PM] "E": Not if you dig deeper.

* 3:19:53 PM] "E": The US was one of the few, who was able to do a devaluation of USD to Colonial Script and Revalue the US Treasury Notes..... but it was ramped up over a lapse of time.

* 3:20:53 PM | Edited 3:21:03 PM] "E": That is how Nathan Rothschild cashed in on the worthless colonials..... because America had the ability to do it with our natural resourses and work force.

* 3:21:23 PM] "E": ============

* 3:21:58 PM] "E": I will get back to you on where I am going with this, later.

* 3:22:18 PM] "E": Marcus reminded me of something I had not researched for several years.

* 3:22:47 PM] "E": Was not even related to IQD at the time... but now relates directly.

* 3:24:21 PM | Edited 3:24:29 PM] "E": Has to do with those Mundel Papers of 1961 and how it relates to the decisions of world central banks, today.

* 3:45:38 PM] "E": ++++++++++++++++++

* 3:45:52 PM] "E": Just read the Marcus essay.

* 3:46:36 PM] "E": It is a fantastic synopsis and these are the same things I arrived at , personally.

* 3:48:20 PM] "E": In the process..... have found other discovery, that shows some promise, as to how the supply of $30 Trillion can be removed from circulation, in a one time revaluation example, using Saleh's number of $1.30 .

* 3:49:16 PM] "E": In the mean time..... what I am looking at right now, would actually find such an example, as what Marcus is describing, as actually may have happened, just like that!

* 3:49:23 PM] "E": And....

* 3:50:06 PM] "E": The US is on such example historically.....

* 3:50:09 PM] "E": and....

* 3:50:31 PM] Genevieve: yeah I like the scenarios

* 3:50:38 PM] Genevieve: great stuff

* 3:51:20 PM] "E": there is not one single example to model after, not even Kuwait or Germany, to model a 1 time 1000 to 1 revaluation..... ever in history, that was not any more than a hybrid lop.

* 3:51:26 PM] "E": BUT>>>>

* 3:52:00 PM] "E": I am looking at one other example that may compare this to the American model in recent history.

* 3:52:07 PM] Genevieve: yeah Iraq is its own animal

* 3:52:55 PM] "E": If this example proves to be what I think it is.... it will be the only other practical model in modern history to base this on and it is justwhat MC is describing.

* 3:53:15 PM] "E": True .... own animal....

* 3:53:18 PM] "E": and....

* 3:53:48 PM] "E": I CAN DEFINITELY SHOW THE DOCEMENTS TO BASE A POSSIBLE WITHDRAWL OF THE m2.

* 3:54:15 PM] "E": It is absolutely not anything like what F26 has been saying.

* 3:55:17 PM] "E": Delta and he however, (If it proves to be true, that the US is holding $20 Trillion.....), it would help to prove this theory.

* 3:56:25 PM] "E": We think there is $23 Trillion that is not in the hands of Iraq, privately or banking circulation and is in world vaults and part of what we hold, which will also be vaulted in international; treasuries

* 3:57:16 PM] "E": So.... it comes out the same as what Marcus is saying and Scooter and I were looking at CBI docs that support that number, as to what actual IQD is contrlled by Iraq.

* 3:57:26 PM] "E": About $7 Trillion.

* 3:57:57 PM] "E": That number is a very good estimate based on factual data.... IF it means what we think it does.

* 6:25:32 PM] "E": +++++++++++++++++++++++++

* 6:25:52 PM] "E": Genevieve: as promised I would get back to you today.

* 6:26:06 PM] "E": Sorry..... it was a dead lead.

* 6:26:45 PM] "E": Oh well.... on to the next trail! 8-)

* 6:27:39 PM] "E": I was hoping that something Patriot said last night about the Rouble was true.

* 6:28:04 PM] "E": As typical.... he misquoted history.

* 6:28:24 PM] "E": Russia did a solid LOP 1000 to 1 in Jan 1998.

* 6:29:06 PM] "E": He tried to say hey increased it over time.... when they fact is, they devalued it in 1993 and Redenominated in 1998.

* 6:31:22 PM] "E": Make no mistake..... Redenomination is LOP. All existing cases of Redenomination were outright or at minumum hybrids..... so technically, MC is right in as much as saying, "All Redenominations are not completely lops, but all lops are Redenominations."

* 6:32:31 PM] "E": That said...... All known Redenominations are indeed at the best, hybrid forms of lops..... such as Argentina and the Martial Plan.

* 6:32:37 PM] "E": +++++++++++++++

* 6:33:25 PM] "E": All that said..... not one single example compares even closely to the real circumstances of Iraq.

* 6:33:44 PM] "E": So..... your earlier statement, is accurate.

* 6:34:11 PM] "E": Iraq is an exceptional case, unlike anything we have to compare it to, in the last 100 years.

* 6:34:37 PM] "E": Even Kuwait, is not a good example, really.

* 6:35:21 PM] "E": I was really hoping that there might be some similarities with Russia.

* 6:35:46 PM] "E": Statistically..... not a good example, really, either.

[Darin]

Right off the bat:

2 trillion @ 10 cents = there goes all or almost all their USD reserves. At your 50 cent point they still have, what, roughly 25 trillion in hard currency out there, supposedly worth 12 trillion in USD, and they have little or no USD to back it with. You can't back dinar with more dinar.

Back it with oil, you say? Let's put that 12 trillion USD in hard currency into perspective:

Venezuala, Canada, and Saudi, combined, have oil reserves that add up to about 730 bbl. That's over 5 times Iraqs reserves.

Venezuala, Canada, and Saudi, combined, have M0s (cold, hard, cash) of around 75 billion. That's 160 times LESS than what you're proposing is acceptable for Iraq.

Doesn't seem very plausible, does it?

The plan starts w/ a Penny

Not ten cents.

0.01 of 2 trillion becomes 20 billion.

You can reduce money supply, reserve %s, and so forth

And also factor in thought that buy into the currency at the rate of $0.01

Edited August 4, 2011 by Darin

[genevieve]

What if they buy more dinar with the USD they take in? Just saying. LOL!

[Darin]

Yes, and then it goes to 10 cents, which is the part I'm talking about.

If you're only bringing in 1/60th of the M2 you sure can't reduce reserves by much.

What? Buy from who? The CBI? I thought the CBI was taking Dinar IN, not selling more of it.

Its a model to work off of:

Lets say they R/V at a 0.01

They have the foreign assets to do so.

They wait, see how many cash out, and buy into it at the new rate.

Than again, do another smaller r/v at 0.10

It may require people to buy-in at the 0.01 rate

Thus the duration of time between each adjustments

This could prove to be very long-term, or short-term based upon who buys in.

The 0.01 is just a starting point.

the next adjustment could happen within weeks, or months..

[genevieve]

GT5 you seem to be so upset, and by no means is the dinar availability drying up. Every dinar site has new banners up for new companies.

[Darin]

GT5 you seem to be so upset, and by no means is the dinar availability drying up. Every dinar site has new banners up for new companies.

Hmm, I am most definitely baffled by the idea of his theories in correlation on how much time he has spent on D/V (Today alone)

I know, if I truly believe, the dinar was going to LOP, than "maybe" r/v to $3.. I wouldn't spend most of my day here...

.... I would think that the fear alone that any hard currency I hold now will never reap the benefits from the R/V after the LOP would be quite depressing.

If you went through a dealer and paid the ridiculous mark-up, your more than likely going to take a loss.

And that is w/ their current buy-back prices.. Which may actually drop even lower in the event of a LOP.

Not many banks deal w/ IQD now, so, would they really decide to deal with it again in the instance of a LOP?

sooo all we can do is sit back, and watch this unfold.

[Buckeye Pilot]

roughly 25 trillion in hard currency out there, supposedly worth 12 trillion in USD, and they have little or no USD to back it with. You can't back dinar with more dinar.

Are You really that stuck on Stupid, Yes they have that much........BUT It sure as hell is not ALL in circulation.

[HopefulTxn]

roughly 25 trillion in hard currency out there, supposedly worth 12 trillion in USD, and they have little or no USD to back it with. You can't back dinar with more dinar.

Are You really that stuck on Stupid, Yes they have that much........BUT It sure as hell is not ALL in circulation.

Why couldn't it be in circulation like the CBI states? 25 trillion dinar is only $21.4 billion dollars - not an unreasonable amount to expect to see in circulation for 30 million people.

[Buckeye Pilot]

Why couldn't it be in circulation like the CBI states? 25 trillion dinar is only $21.4 billion dollars - not an unreasonable amount to expect to see in circulation for 30 million people.

Huh????

To my knowlede we were not talking Dollars.

[MPG350]

Its going to LOP most likely alot on this board can't accept that there only way to become rich isn't going to happen....

We will be lucky if they RV at .05 cents

[RodandStaff]

Great thread, but I have a few questions for the Lopsters.

1st) If you really believe you will only get 3 times you're initial investment, then why not just wait until the class action lawsuit against those unlicensed agents that sold you the dinar as a get rich scenario?

If you win you get back 3 times your investment plus free legal representation. Imagine if you spent your time pursuing that option. If you just followed my advice you can get off these forums and get back to doing whatever you did before hearing about the dinar.

2nd) Well, there really wasn't a second question just a statement. Lop or no lop, most seem to spend entirely way too much time into this investment. Imagine if you put this much time and energy into volunteering?

Wow... if I may say so... for a newbie you have one heck of a solid left hook!!! Good job! Welcome to the DV... and sorry, every now and then those lopsters get out of their cages! Poor Bump is trying to coral them, but that is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube!

[bright]

It is going to take a great deal of positive posts to keep the faithful pacified during Ramadam.........the pumping business is going to be difficult........has anyone noticed how chat lines and general participation on many dinar sites is down the past six months....one of the sites had like 3000 people online last March.......I guess just the gung ho or perhaps the stupid like myself keep the faith.......now I just look for the next great pump except from Okie....I read the comics for the rush he provides to some....

[umbertino]

Quote

We will be lucky if they RV at .05 cents

End Quote

Guess what.... I'll take that in a newyork second and say thank you.

[hoopdog]

Callsquad is for sale and shows me nothing. The links that have been provided have not worked either. Has anyone had any luck with any of these? If so, if you would kindly attach a link that works, it would be greatly appreciated.

[MPG350]

Quote

We will be lucky if they RV at .05 cents

End Quote

Guess what.... I'll take that in a newyork second and say thank you.

So would I but these stupid rates of $1+ higher are insane and won't happen.

Edited August 4, 2011 by MPG350