Time to Cut out the Cancer

[dexter]

I think many on here are of the opinion that this is one of the best sites out there, if not the best; however, it is very upsetting to continually see the continuous negativity that spews from the opinions of some on here such as Chuckst3r and Tmcgrw. Yes, I have no problem putting some people on ignore, but if the consensus agrees that some individuals in particular always seem to be combative and destructive does everyone have to suffer just to allow those people to voice their opinions? Is it right to make all of us take the measure to ignore them? I am all for having a different opinion or perspective and encourage healthy debate, but I personally don't see anything healthy from the majority of their posts. I don't want to make a federal case of this, but I am just curious how many negatives someone has to get before they minimally lose posting privileges? Some people don't need to post, but they certainly may need to have the opportunity to continue becoming more educated in this via members that are knowledgeable in this investment. Not saying banned although I would not be opposed to that either. I had to check a profile after one person received 40 negatives in one reply only to discover their total was negative 234!!!!! Wow, my thinking is if some steps are not taken others may feel they can come here and post the same BS and insanity without repercussions. Aaaarrrrgggg, That's it, hope a mod sees this and proposes it for review/consideration. I am ready to be a healthy family again......I say let them move on to another forum and carrying on with their infectious disease of negativity there.

Edited June 30, 2011 by dexter

[fnbplanet]

ya think after, say, 200 negs, someone should get the boot?

[dman13]

Sorry, disagree completely. Everyone on this site should have the right to voice their opinion. I think that personal integrity and character should prevent cussing, degrading, or name-calling (although I will admit to calling what-ever-her name was a bimbo) but no one should be censored in any fashion by the mods or site management unless they break the rules in a willful and malicious manner. Just my opinion but people have died for the right of 'free speech' and I'll always support the ability to deliver the message even if I disagree with the contents. My opinion but I can live with it

[RVDinar4MyFamily]

With as much as I agree with you, one of the greatest freedoms we have is our freedom of speech.

I know that sounds cliché, but that same freedom that allows them to voice their opinions (regardless of how unpopular that opinion may be) is also the same freedom that allows you to voice your opinion as you have here and allows me to voice my opinion when I call out the pumpers and pumpers pets like Easy.

Opinions differ, and everyone is entitled to form, share, reconsider, and post that opinion.

And that is JMO... (Just My Opinion)

[jg1]

Sorry, disagree completely. Everyone on this site should have the right to voice their opinion. I think that personal integrity and character should prevent cussing, degrading, or name-calling (although I will admit to calling what-ever-her name was a bimbo) but no one should be censored in any fashion by the mods or site management unless they break the rules in a willful and malicious manner. Just my opinion but people have died for the right of 'free speech' and I'll always support the ability to deliver the message even if I disagree with the contents. My opinion but I can live with it

No freedom of speech on this site, give me a break. Its a private site. If some one is being a complete menace, that person should not be here.

[debratzz]

THE CANCER HERE IS" ONE "OF THE REASONS THERE ARE SUCH FEW VETS LEFT ON THIS SITE!

[dexter]

I agree we are all entitled to our opinions. It just gets old when it seems 95% of the time at some point his opinion is that everyone else is an idiot.....I would just like to hear him have another/second oplnion, lol

[WorkerBee]

I prefer to read and make up my own mind. We allow Okie don't we? My rule is to not get emotionally involved.If and when the line is crossed.......they'll be banned.

[Jaxinjersey]

No freedom of speech on this site, give me a break. Its a private site. If some one is being a complete menace, that person should not be here.

I agree... and if anyone has read my posts, I've stated often my belief in letting the "free-market of opinion, thought and ideas" determine the outcome of a disagreement or debate... no censorship.

However... I also adhere to this: "Just because you can... doesn't mean you should!" I wish some posters would think twice about what and how they say something. Free speech doesn't give you permission to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater!

[dman13]

jgreenlaw1,

I think you're wrong- In an evironment of adults, free speech exists where ever people gather be it a public building or an electronic forum. Now, before you bring up the 'yelling fire in a movie theater' argument, ok- I agree it's limited in that respect but only because of the potential of people being hurt because the crowd reacts and rushes to the exits overwhelming someone... An electronic medium such as this website doesn't have that capabilty- only words are exchanged here so let people say what they will- choose to ignore them or not- but, don't censor them.

Finally, you're right about this being a private site; however, if Adam or the mods start censoring people simply because of speech, then I'll choose to leave. Once again, too many people have died over the years because of this principle and it's not one I will compromise on.

[BlueJeanBaby]

I think many on here are of the opinion that this is one of the best sites out there, if not the best; however, it is very upsetting to continually see the continuous negativity that spews from the opinions of some on here such as Chuckst3r and Tmcgrw. Yes, I have no problem putting some people on ignore, but if the consensus agrees that some individuals in particular always seem to be combative and destructive does everyone have to suffer just to allow those people to voice their opinions? Is it right to make all of us take the measure to ignore them? I am all for having a different opinion or perspective and encourage healthy debate, but I personally don't see anything healthy from the majority of their posts. I don't want to make a federal case of this, but I am just curious how many negatives someone has to get before they minimally lose posting privileges? Some people don't need to post, but they certainly may need to have the opportunity to continue becoming more educated in this via members that are knowledgeable in this investment. Not saying banned although I would not be opposed to that either. I had to check a profile after one person received 40 negatives in one reply only to discover their total was negative 234!!!!! Wow, my thinking is if some steps are not taken others may feel they can come here and post the same BS and insanity without repercussions. Aaaarrrrgggg, That's it, hope a mod sees this and proposes it for review/consideration. I am ready to be a healthy family again......I say let them move on to another forum and carrying on with their infectious disease of negativity there.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. One minute, you're saying that you're all for healthy debate and putting people on ignore, and the next, you're saying that steps need to be taken and that you're open to them being axed.

You ARE, in fact, saying ban them.

Be honest, would you please?

SO WHAT that you don't see anything positive in their posts ... bit fat hairy deal. I probably don't like them either, but I walk the walk of not reading their stuff anymore. PROBLEM SOLVED.

If you don't like them, why are you going to their profile? If you have them on ignore, why stalk them and see how many negatives? Simply forget about them, and move on ... hmm?

... if steps are not taken ... that reminds me of the lawmaker who wanted to ban conspiracy theories. It's all ridiculous, and you're starting to sound like the lefties who only want people with whom agree to make the headlines or be in office. Sorry, but ***NEWSFLASH*** the world doesn't work like that.

Again, if you don't like someone, put them on ignore (noun), and then REALLY IGNORE THEM (verb).

The difference between you and me is that, while I disagree with someone, I will fight tooth and nail for their right to say what's on their mind. You would rather just get rid of them.

This is a private site. Management makes the policies and rules. If people get negatives, so what? All that means is disagreement. If the person with the negatives has said nothing against site policies and guidelines, why should they be banned or silenced?

Who is right, and who needs to grow up a little?

[dexter]

jgreenlaw1,

I think you're wrong- In an evironment of adults, free speech exists where ever people gather be it a public building or an electronic forum. Now, before you bring up the 'yelling fire in a movie theater' argument, ok- I agree it's limited in that respect but only because of the potential of people being hurt because the crowd reacts and rushes to the exits overwhelming someone... An electronic medium such as this website doesn't have that capabilty- only words are exchanged here so let people say what they will- choose to ignore them or not- but, don't censor them.

Finally, you're right about this being a private site; however, if Adam or the mods start censoring people simply because of speech, then I'll choose to leave. Once again, too many people have died over the years because of this principle and it's not one I will compromise on.

[jg1]

jgreenlaw1,

I think you're wrong- In an evironment of adults, free speech exists where ever people gather be it a public building or an electronic forum. Now, before you bring up the 'yelling fire in a movie theater' argument, ok- I agree it's limited in that respect but only because of the potential of people being hurt because the crowd reacts and rushes to the exits overwhelming someone... An electronic medium such as this website doesn't have that capabilty- only words are exchanged here so let people say what they will- choose to ignore them or not- but, don't censor them.

Finally, you're right about this being a private site; however, if Adam or the mods start censoring people simply because of speech, then I'll choose to leave. Once again, too many people have died over the years because of this principle and it's not one I will compromise on.

Thats your opinion, just like I have mine. Take a look at the last chat, adam kicked a quite a few people out. I am agreeing with the starter of this thread, people like okie, TK and others that abuse this site should be kicked. Good day.

[dexter]

Hey Blue jean---not talking out of both sides of my mouth. I like everyone that brings something here whether I personally agree on their perspective or not. Whether they think we will be millionaires or whether they think it is a lop or rv/rd or whatever. But those people generally have some reason to back it up which implies some form of intelligence. It just makes me wonder as saiore stated above about why if a member here brings up Scooter or another site in particular BAM---welcome to the door. Yet, this is a site for democracy and freedom of speech? Is it? or is it not? As long as there is obviously some arbitrary discretion going on I simply said he has received 234 negatives in a matter of a couple of months. Facts imply/validate there are some of the same opinion that I have regarding this. I don't care if I get 50 negatives for this post it is my Opinion just as you have yours and I'm not mad at you for it. I feel you disagree with me legitimately and some people disagree for the sake of disagreeing. That BS just gets old. And what policies and regulations did Scooter and the mods violate that got them banned, so that I am sure not to do the same.

[dman13]

Folks, let's get the story straight- Scooter was not banned- he chose to leave. The former Mods then decided to write a public letter of resignation which I assume was ok- but then, they told everyone they were leaving and going to another site soliciting members to join them. Also, some members actually received emails from some of these former mods asking them to come over... In my opinion, that breaks the rules of this site, every ethic of business relations that I'm familiar with, and requires action by the owner.

If you disagree, what would you do if you own a business and your competitor comes into it and starts telling your customers that their store offers lower prices? I'd show them the door quickly!

Simple but wasn't a matter of free speech- in fact, Adam stood up for free speech by allowing Scooter to be questioned. Sorry, but if this is an erroneous summation, please correct me.

[dexter]

Thanks Dman

[Jaxinjersey]

Folks, let's get the story straight- Scooter was not banned- he chose to leave. The former Mods then decided to write a public letter of resignation which I assume was ok- but then, they told everyone they were leaving and going to another site soliciting members to join them. Also, some members actually received emails from some of these former mods asking them to come over... In my opinion, that breaks the rules of this site, every ethic of business relations that I'm familiar with, and requires action by the owner.

If you disagree, what would you do if you own a business and your competitor comes into it and starts telling your customers that their store offers lower prices? I'd show them the door quickly!

Simple but wasn't a matter of free speech- in fact, Adam stood up for free speech by allowing Scooter to be questioned. Sorry, but if this is an erroneous summation, please correct me.

I'm familiar with the entire story as well. I'm also a businessman, selling goods and services. You've got it right to a certain extent, but "competitors" use these tactics everyday in the business world... overtly through advertising and marketing... but also through recruiting techniques, price slashing, price matching and so forth. The free market is what determines what someone will buy or where they'll go. Employees have left me to start their own business... these things happen everyday... and it is fine. And yes, you have to be diligent and aware of them in order to protect your customers... but that's business... Sometimes brand loyalty could also be blind loyalty. I understand the ethics argument... but, there are two sides to each story... the owner's, and the "employee's"... and depending upon the "contract"... a difference is not necessarily a breach. Again, these things happen everyday... they usually shake out best for the customer in the end. I just try to remain objective in my approach to these things. Hope it helps!

[wavggg]

Hey Dex-

I agree with where you are going with this. Unfortunately, a lot of folks a) don't know how, don't have the words, c) just live by their opinions or upbringing, and/or d) never do any research... so they drop to shooting slings and arrows at the person speaking/writing instead of the message. I do not understand why some can't control themselves and avoid the extra dig to insult the person.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are massive egos attached to some strong minds on this site, for sure. Some of these contributors declare a scorched earth policy if you dare disagree with them. They just can't be wrong or it will crack their self perception in half.

Then, there are those for whom this site has become the first time that they ever were acknowledged for existing or having thoughts. It gives them anonymity so if they are wrong, they can hide in the shadow and if they are right, they can take credit. It also gives people used to being bullied a chance to bully back at others who have bullied them... so it turns into a cat-fight. For these folks, this site is their 15 minutes of fame, as Warhol said..

As an example (as you know, I limit my posts to bringing in serious resources and trying to help people open their minds to broader concepts going on around them.) Yet, the one time I got a burr up my butt about an auto-email from Adam and spouted off... Well, the S**T hit the fan and it turned into the longest running thread that I ever started, with people bashing me to smithereens... It was as if nothing I ever said of quality ever existed... It would be like if Jesus was giving a lecture and farted - and everyone immediately started throwing rotten vegetables at him to run him out of town without finding out who he was or what he stood for...

So yes, the site is filled with nasty critters (or at lease critters who behave nastily). But there are also some amazing, humble intellects and spirits out here that to me, still make it worth the mine field. Aside form Linked-In professional blogging, I have not found anywhere that people act out of respect for each other and themselves. Manners are out the window. Hopefully the rest of this Dinar ride will be short and we can all go back to beating our spouses and children instead of the other members on this site...

I wish everyone peace and hope that when you decide to smash me again, you do it with both sides of your brain and with a bit more tact than a grizzly bear having a fawn for dinner...

[debratzz]

I agree, the cancer is spreading and people are jumping ship. It bothers me that this person lands like a leech anytime scooter's name is mentioned.

What that whole thread did was advertise the other site. There were over 100 people in chat over there tonight, and over 1200 on the call. The call was Scooter, Highlander and Enoch. No Breitling nor any mention of him. I am a member of many other sites and used to consider this the best out there until all this cancer started. Cut out the cancer or you die. nuff said

I agree, I use to think this was the best site, had it not been for a guy who never contributed anything to this site taking precedence over someone who was genuine and shared his knowledge and research freely,this would not have turned into the sinking ship!

Makes me wonder why the guy is still posting, I thought the mods had banned him! Oh I guess dv kept chuckster and the other site got scooter, mods and hundreds of vets! What a tradeoff!

lol

[dexter]

You rock Debra!

[debratzz]

You rock Debra!

Thank you dexter!

[dman13]

Jax,

I appreciate what you're saying and agree that the business environment is highly competitive, however, when you speak of "Employees have left me to start their own business... these things happen everyday... and it is fine." I would doubt that you'd allow those former employees to come into your business and actively solicit your customers. If they want to approach the people through the 'free market', fine- but, don't do so using access granted by the very source they are attacking. I don't see two sides to that agreement. Seems like a question of ethics to me.

I would reiterate the same position concerning your statement that '...there are two sides to each story... the owner's, and the "employee's"... and depending upon the "contract"... a difference is not necessarily a breach. Not talking about the reasons for the difference, I'm simply talking about appropriate behavior. In my opinion, it's not appropriate to use access granted in a business/professional relationship to say 'hey, we're leaving- going here, and want all our friends to join us' when supposedly working for DVs. Differences occur, people leave opportunities all the time- it's a matter of how you leave that exemplifies the character of the relationship and obviously this departure was lacking (my opinion, but I've had a business for 10 years and just don't believe the in-resignation solicitation was proper or ethical).

Contracts of employment have an implied expectation- the employee/associate will act in a professional manner and do no intentional harm to the employing entity. I ask you- was the resignation with solicitation an effort to harm DV? Was it appropriate? You know my opinion- what's yours? Have a great day and Go RV.

[Jaxinjersey]

Jax,

I appreciate what you're saying and agree that the business environment is highly competitive, however, when you speak of "Employees have left me to start their own business... these things happen everyday... and it is fine." I would doubt that you'd allow those former employees to come into your business and actively solicit your customers. If they want to approach the people through the 'free market', fine- but, don't do so using access granted by the very source they are attacking. I don't see two sides to that agreement. Seems like a question of ethics to me.

I would reiterate the same position concerning your statement that '...there are two sides to each story... the owner's, and the "employee's"... and depending upon the "contract"... a difference is not necessarily a breach. Not talking about the reasons for the difference, I'm simply talking about appropriate behavior. In my opinion, it's not appropriate to use access granted in a business/professional relationship to say 'hey, we're leaving- going here, and want all our friends to join us' when supposedly working for DVs. Differences occur, people leave opportunities all the time- it's a matter of how you leave that exemplifies the character of the relationship and obviously this departure was lacking (my opinion, but I've had a business for 10 years and just don't believe the in-resignation solicitation was proper or ethical).

Contracts of employment have an implied expectation- the employee/associate will act in a professional manner and do no intentional harm to the employing entity. I ask you- was the resignation with solicitation an effort to harm DV? Was it appropriate? You know my opinion- what's yours? Have a great day and Go RV.

Hi Dman, seems we're close in our thinking... Please understand, I'm speaking more generally, and I believe you're speaking to the actions here at DV specifically, which I will not address in respect for Adam. But, I will simply say that we members will never know the true dynamics of what occured... and that was my general point about two sides to every issue. Sometimes the "behavior in leaving" is as legitimate as the "reasons for the difference" ... perhaps simply to provite clarity, truth... protection of honor, dignity and reputation... the list goes on. Perhaps there could be legal issues to defend. And again, it all depends on the dynamics of each individual situation.

Now, concerning your doubt that former employees would come into a business to solicit customers (or other employees), it does occur. And depending on the type of business, it's easily done... via the openesss of retail... or via phone calls and emails... even outright strikes to create awareness. Ex-employees may even feel it's their duty to "warn" or to "inform" about bad practices... giving others the opportunity to find out for themselves in the free market. The implied expectation in a contract works two ways... a breach may occur from either side. Unfortunately, sometimes the best intentions and ethics gets tossed aside as the waters get muddied.

So, as I stated... I will not address what happened at DV, as I don't pretend to know all the details and really don't care to know. It could be argued and debated til the cows come home... that's why I'm speaking generally. I hope yo understand. I'm just here to be civil and enjoy the process of our investment. Great discussion though... thanks!

[smee2]

In an environment of adults, someone commented. Well, that would be fine if all the posters behaved as adults. Well mannered adults. But so many people see the anonymity of a computer as a perfect way to be nasty and rude and take out their aggression in what they consider a "safe" manner. Meanwhile they are giving decent folk on the site the start of a raging ulcer!

I have long held the belief that people who are disruptive, name-calling, rude, bullying ... oh just plain childish and borderline violent as far as they can be in words ... should be given a time out. I recommend they be put on read only status. That way they get all the news they supposedly come here to get, and opinion of people who come here for that purpose, not for the purpose of being angry and disruptive and combative.

If they learn their lesson ... doubtfull ... they could be given posting privileges again and see what happens. There is always the opportunity for read only.

What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that this is a private site and all you hollering about freedom of speech has nothing at all to do with what goes on here. If you came to my home you would have freedom of speech to the point where you were insulting and nasty and rude and then you would be asked to shut up or leave.

As a Private Site Owner, Mr. Montana has the right to ask that his members be respectful. He offers this site free of charge unless you want in on the VIP package. It is a wonderful opportunity to learn about your investment. He doesn't have to do this. We are being given something, it is a privilege not a right.

It is just too bad that so many people are so immature they cannot treat the site with respect and a measure of dignity and get from it what it was designed to give. Information.

smee2

[RodandStaff]

I agree, I use to think this was the best site, had it not been for a guy who never contributed anything to this site taking precedence over someone who was genuine and shared his knowledge and research freely,this would not have turned into the sinking ship!

Makes me wonder why the guy is still posting, I thought the mods had banned him! Oh I guess dv kept chuckster and the other site got scooter, mods and hundreds of vets! What a tradeoff!

lol

Sigh.... It is gettin crazy around here... name calling, with no repercussions... unless you touch the holy grail.. but we won't go there or we too will get banned! And don't use "so and so" to cash out... or your a fool! Really, what is on the agenda here? Makes me wonder??? So many good ones lost and yet they try to act like it is business as usual. Hoping it RV's already to get this ride over with cause folks are just gettin "uncivilized" with each other!

P.S. .. I misspelled just to p*ss some folks off!

Edited June 30, 2011 by RodandStaff